2aHawaii
General Topics => Political Discussion => Topic started by: zippz on November 09, 2016, 11:37:40 AM
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There may be some Democratic party fans that may be alienated by the news here, especially those new to this forum. Everyone has different views on politics and it may appear that this site may be anti-democrat/liberal or democrat bashing. This isn't the case. Being that this is a firearms enthusiast website, we naturally promote pro-gun leaders (not just political) and despise anti-gun leaders. It just so happens Democrats are majority anti-gun and Republicans are pro-gun. We do support pro-gun Democrats (like my rep Sam Kong) and bash anti-gun Republicans (like Chris Christie) here. Many also support libertarians and other parties that are pro-gun.
Food for thought.
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:thumbsup:
We are all here to Make America Great Again :thumbsup:
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Perhaps this video can help explain the conservative viewpoint, and actually why Trump was elected.
Also covers gun control issues.
https://youtu.be/ANvQRDwgu7c
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I wish I was as keen and eloquent as Ben Shapiro.
WHat he spoke of Donald has mastered.
Here's evidence
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9xokE0fRok
here's the full interview he stabs back at 23:28 and Wolf doesn't even realize it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xSN6n0Bm80
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I meant this to be a neutral thread, neither for or against either party.
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Agree, just posted that to give liberals the other side of the coin.
America is founded on diversity of ideas, and gives citizens RIGHTS to disagree and voice these ideas.
Nowadays, the diversity is only on the surface, and you can look and sound the way you want, as long as you agree with our consensus.
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Agree, just posted that to give liberals the other side of the coin.
America is founded on diversity of ideas, and gives citizens RIGHTS to disagree and voice these ideas.
Nowadays, the diversity is only on the surface, and you can look and sound the way you want, as long as you agree with our consensus.
I agree with that. Everyone has different opinions and points of view, and we have to be respectful of those even if we do not agree with them. If someone doesn't agree and wants to bash us, we still have to be respectful and hold high morals.
One of my friends (maybe soon to be exfriend) I've always known to be nice and sweet and she lives in San Francisco. She saw my message on facebook announcing the election winner. That's it. No boasting or derogatory remarks. She wants to unfriend me just on how I voted. Now I'm a pretty moderate guy and I try to be neutral and respectful in a lot of discussions. We do some facebook chatting and it's like I'm in a Piers Morgan debate like what was discussed in passivekinetic's video above. It's like a full on terrorist interrogation and it's surreal. I expressed my thoughts and I get assaulted with a whole bunch of different comments, almost like she was copying and pasting from an election playbook. I said I have my own thoughts and she doesn't have to agree with them, but to at least respect them and myself. And I do the same for her. She doesn't agree.
It's like a dream. If friends act like this, then how is congress supposed to work together?
On this board, we have 2a to unite us regardless of other things we may not agree on.
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Totally that is the experience I have with most friends nowadays. It is sad that MOST people have been brainwashed (no other word for it) by the liberal media. I mean, even Facebook and Google are blatantly liberal, and CENSOR conservative information. So basically people are educated without conservative viewpoints, which now seem TOTALLY ALIEN to them.
So when you present these points to your friends, it is TOTALLY ALIEN and they have a kind of immune response, mixed with confusion, because they just can't grasp it. It is totally new, like if you talk about human rights, they might immediately think about racism, or women's rights, but no, you go back to talk about the right of self defense, the right of body integrity (i.e., no mandatory vaccines), etc. and they are confused, they have not encountered human rights being framed in these ways. Self defense has always been the role of the government to keep them safe. The government is your friend, how can you even say that I cannot 100% trust government? That would be, like, TOTALLY SCARY and I don't want to go there.
This is why Trump scares them. They are having a VISCERAL REACTION now to the DESTRUCTION OF THEIR WORLDVIEW which happened last night.
Since it's an emotional reaction, do not expect to engage them in RATIONAL DISCUSSION.
It will simply end with an emotional response which is unfriending you on FB. So, just don't go there, not worth it.
I think it will take a month or two before people calm down and accept Trump and then SOME of them will start to read up and watch videos on conservative viewpoints.
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It will simply end with an emotional response which is unfriending you on FB. So, just don't go there, not worth it.
Literally don't go to "Facebook". Why would you want to contribute financial assets to assist Mark Zuckerberg's globalist agenda which includes citizen disarmament?
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this is the 2ahawaii safe space :thumbsup:
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Literally don't go to "Facebook". Why would you want to contribute financial assets to assist Mark Zuckerberg's globalist agenda which includes citizen disarmament?
Problem is, everyone is on there. So unless you want it to become a total left echo chamber, in which most shape their political and world view, one much 'dance with the devil'. If only one sides view gets all the coverage, then our side will quickly be decimated. It is already too close for comfort now, and if this new administration doesn't do great things, the conservative way, and our freedoms as we know it, will not last another election cycle.
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I've not gone to Facebook in many years. Don't miss it.
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I think Facebook is a great platform for communication that we should be using more here. One of the biggest problems we have on 2a issues is getting the word out. We do emails, HRA newspaper articles, 2ahawaii, word of mouth which is great for getting the word out to several hundred people...maybe up to a couple of thousand on big issues. But what method do we have to get the word out to tens or hundreds of thousands of people efficiently and quickly with two way communication? I think conservatives tend to shy away from the community, openness, and new technology which really hurts our cause. Liberals tend to be the opposite and I think we need to learn from them.
I'm pretty good on researching issues and planning stuff, but I know I'm terrible at communicating and being social which is needed in working together and getting people involved.
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almost like she was copying and pasting from an election playbook.
Very likely was. I know they do on gun "control" threads, they are supplied with Handgun Control Inc. (or whoever it is these days) literature on "How to "debate" gun nutz."
You can easily spot the similarity of responses. The old knee slapper was a liberal asking at a predictable point: "Oh, so you believe you should be able to own a bazooka or atomic bomb?"
Painfully obvious they were following a script.
Personally, the GOP is dead to me, after the sell outs of 2010 and 2014. They have shown they are little different than the democrats. Do not care that I have no "party affiliation", the 2A is my single issue 90% of the time.
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Totally that is the experience I have with most friends nowadays. It is sad that MOST people have been brainwashed (no other word for it) by the liberal media. I mean, even Facebook and Google are blatantly liberal, and CENSOR conservative information. So basically people are educated without conservative viewpoints, which now seem TOTALLY ALIEN to them.
So when you present these points to your friends, it is TOTALLY ALIEN and they have a kind of immune response, mixed with confusion, because they just can't grasp it. It is totally new, like if you talk about human rights, they might immediately think about racism, or women's rights, but no, you go back to talk about the right of self defense, the right of body integrity (i.e., no mandatory vaccines), etc. and they are confused, they have not encountered human rights being framed in these ways. Self defense has always been the role of the government to keep them safe. The government is your friend, how can you even say that I cannot 100% trust government? That would be, like, TOTALLY SCARY and I don't want to go there.
This is why Trump scares them. They are having a VISCERAL REACTION now to the DESTRUCTION OF THEIR WORLDVIEW which happened last night.
Since it's an emotional reaction, do not expect to engage them in RATIONAL DISCUSSION.
It will simply end with an emotional response which is unfriending you on FB. So, just don't go there, not worth it.
I think it will take a month or two before people calm down and accept Trump and then SOME of them will start to read up and watch videos on conservative viewpoints.
I have a handful of friends on FB that just have not let things go or sink in. I haven't discussed with them, but I say this as I still see them posting negative things about Trump. But this is the thing with me, they only attack Trump, but never about why HRC (or anyone else for that matter) would have been better or "see" the hypocrisy in that the same things they are critical of Trump were the same things HRC said or tried to pull in the past. They are just flat out irrationally afraid of Trump and it baffles me why. They don't really seem to support HRC, which to me was a known 1000% bad direction, vs a wild card like Trump, who at least has potential for good (if not more).
All three live in WA state and that's how I got to know them. Maybe they are just too far gone in terms of their brainwashing. I typically just ignore them and I never discuss politics on social media and not really in person. Only a little here and some with my closest friends. As mentioned above, just not worth it.
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Jumping into this a bit late in the discussion. Attacks on democrats as a party is forbidden? "A real and present danger" is upon us. It seems to be like a snow ball, growing bigger and faster. If we don't tag the cause as the party of the democrats who do we say is causing this? The democrats are the largest and in reality the only party.
Don't get me wrong I am not jumping up and down or screaming out loud.
To know/indetify who is your foe. To make a fight against those that would destroy our 2A rights you have to put a face on that foe.
When a soldier goes into the field of combat he knows his foe. It would be easy to say enemy in place of foe but that would NOT be appropriate. How do you identify the cause of our dwindling 2A rights? Thanks for listening.
Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk
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I think it comes down to pro-gun and anti-gun, not republican or democrat, or conservative/liberal. There are anti-gun republicans and pro-gun democrats along with other parties, both politicians and regular citizens. Keep out the other things like abortion, welfare, military defense, etc since not everyone can agree on everything. There are a lot of liberal or democrat gun owners and you don't want to alienate them cause we need their help. I feel 2ahawaii.com is made up of the extreme 1% of conservative male gun owners, other people tell me they avoid this site. We need everyone's support.
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Excellent article!
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2017/05/30/why_americas_political_crisis_is_so_profound_134037.html?platform=hootsuite
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I feel 2ahawaii.com is made up of the extreme 1% of conservative male gun owners, other people tell me they avoid this site. We need everyone's support.
Did those "other people" tell you why they avoid the site? I'd guess not interested enough the the whole Second Amendment realm to "waste" their time getting into the weeds on the issues?
What's your real life tactic for getting "everyone's support"? You mean like you said you believed that Tulsi Gabbard could be persuaded to support the Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act of 2017? How's that workin' out for ya? (It's been six months since the bill was introduced and she won't hasn't made a public statement about whether she supports it or not... you know, because... no reason).
Some people are enemies of the rights listed in the Bill of Rights, including the right to keep and bear arms. They will never support anything but infringements, including and up to total civilian disarmament, whether they use that term or not. It's a total waste of time to seek their support. That being said, if the person in question is a politician it could be helpful to continually make public their actual actions (or lack thereof) that belie the hypocrisy and lies of their "I support the Second Amendment, but..." bullshit (you know, like Major Tulsi "large capacity clips" Gabbard).
* * * * *
Gun Control: Tulsi has a consistent record of advocating for sensible gun control. She has long called for reinstating a federal ban on military-style assault weapons and high capacity clips, requiring comprehensive pre-purchase background checks, closing the gun-show loophole, and making sure that terrorists are not allowed to buy guns [by eliminating due process rights guaranteed by the Constitution]. [My emphasis]
—Tulsi Gabbard's campaign website, https://www.votetulsi.com/visionXREFX
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I am personally fully independent. I vote based on issues not party. This site I do agree with zippz, is full of bible thumping hardcore conservatives. Full of conspiracies and pseudo science with a fairly closed viewpoints. Hawaii is democratic and if you keep alienating those democrats who support gun rights by being far right you (we) will never protect our 2nd amendment rights.
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I am personally fully independent. I vote based on issues not party. This site I do agree with zippz, is full of bible thumping hardcore conservatives. Full of conspiracies and pseudo science with a fairly closed viewpoints. Hawaii is democratic and if you keep alienating those democrats who support gun rights by being far right you (we) will never protect our 2nd amendment rights.
if you color inside the lines, conservatives fit the 2A profile naturally. i'm an independent but, side mostly conservative.
a democrat/liberal that supports 1A/2A is an oxymoron. they are an anomaly.
did i piss anybody off? :D
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I am personally fully independent. I vote based on issues not party. This site I do agree with zippz, is full of bible thumping hardcore conservatives. Full of conspiracies and pseudo science with a fairly closed viewpoints. [Oh, the irony!!] Hawaii is democratic and if you keep alienating those democrats who support gun rights by being far right you (we) will never protect our 2nd amendment rights.
Uh huh. So if a person concludes, based upon the totality of the best-quality evidence, that "anthropogenic global climate change" is not supported by the facts, or that "partial birth abortion" is immoral, or that a "single payer" healthcare system would not be the best way to go (etc., i.e. "hardcore conservative" positions in your words), then and only then will "those democrats who support gun rights" do an about face and "never protect our 2nd amendment rights"? In other words, there are a bunch of Democrats who support "gun rights" (yeah, right, they ALL do... just ask 'em), but if anyone disagrees with them on any other issue those Democrats will give up their support for the Second Amendment and become gun-grabbers? You mean we risk losing the support of those people in control of government (Senate 100%, House 93%, governor, AG, courts, etc. and those who vote for them) who have preserved all our Second Amendment rights so gloriously in Hawaii today? So if we change all our views on the other issues and agree with them they will do EVEN MORE for us?
Woohoo! I can hardly wait! Sign me up! Anthropogenic Global Cooling Warming Climate Change is REAL!!! Just go ahead and poke that eight month (or even five month) gestated blob of protoplasm in what crazy zealot religious nuts think is a "brain" and use a suction catheter to remove that "cellular material" if the mother wants! I'm feelin' the Bern! [Speaking of whom: Bernie Sanders Made $1 Million in 2016 While Slamming Rich People on the Campaign Trail https://www.yahoo.com/news/bernie-sanders-made-1-million-181443878.html]
So now that I agree with them, when can I expect those wonderful Democrats to restore my rights?
Yeah, that's what I thought.
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I am personally fully independent. I vote based on issues not party. This site I do agree with zippz, is full of bible thumping hardcore conservatives. Full of conspiracies and pseudo science with a fairly closed viewpoints. Hawaii is democratic and if you keep alienating those democrats who support gun rights by being far right you (we) will never protect our 2nd amendment rights.
Maybe you should base your vote on 2A, assuming you really believe in it, then maybe we can get our rights back. Any other political issue is moot compared to the anti constitutional sway of the political climate in this state.
Get that fixed first, then we can debate on other less important issues.
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Uh huh. So if a person concludes, based upon the totality of the best-quality evidence, that "anthropogenic global climate change" is not supported by the facts, or that "partial birth abortion" is immoral, or that a "single payer" healthcare system would not be the best way to go (etc., i.e. "hardcore conservative" positions in your words), then and only then will "those democrats who support gun rights" do an about face and "never protect our 2nd amendment rights"? In other words, there are a bunch of Democrats who support "gun rights" (yeah, right, they ALL do... just ask 'em), but if anyone disagrees with them on any other issue those Democrats will give up their support for the Second Amendment and become gun-grabbers? You mean we risk losing the support of those people in control of government (Senate 100%, House 93%, governor, AG, courts, etc. and those who vote for them) who have preserved all our Second Amendment rights so gloriously in Hawaii today? So if we change all our views on the other issues and agree with them they will do EVEN MORE for us?
Woohoo! I can hardly wait! Sign me up! Anthropogenic Global Cooling Warming Climate Change is REAL!!! Just go ahead and poke that eight month (or even five month) gestated blob of protoplasm in what crazy zealot religious nuts think is a "brain" and use a suction catheter to remove that "cellular material" if the mother wants! I'm feelin' the Bern! [Speaking of whom: Bernie Sanders Made $1 Million in 2016 While Slamming Rich People on the Campaign Trail https://www.yahoo.com/news/bernie-sanders-made-1-million-181443878.html]
So now that I agree with them, when can I expect those wonderful Democrats to restore my rights?
Yeah, that's what I thought.
More like going around in threads shouting "FUCKING LIBERALS"/ "liberal trash", etc is probably not going to convince a democrat to support 2a.
I am for fighting climate change, against single player healthcare and pro all abortions and pro 2a. What does this make me if you want to squeeze me into one of two groups?
If you keep just forcing a divide there is no chance for cooperation. I've seen republicans vote anti 2a and democrats vote pro 2a. This gets more rare every year because everyone wants to shove people into two groups and when they do that and the group votes one way people are pressured to vote the same.
Maybe you should base your vote on 2A, assuming you really believe in it, then maybe we can get our rights back. Any other political issue is moot compared to the anti constitutional sway of the political climate in this state.
Get that fixed first, then we can debate on other less important issues.
I do vote on a mix of 2a and other issues. 2A isn't the only issue in the world/government. If Hitler was pro 2a and still Hitler on other issues would you still vote for him?
if you color inside the lines, conservatives fit the 2A profile naturally. i'm an independent but, side mostly conservative.
a democrat/liberal that supports 1A/2A is an oxymoron. they are an anomaly.
did i piss anybody off? :D
There a reason for this, conservatives found out that 2a people exist and went to "whoo" them. Same with religion, they bible thump all day because it gets them votes. My family has a bunch of democrats and they are not anti-gun. There are plenty out there we are a majority democrats but yet we have a massive amount of guns owned. Clearly not everyone is a anti-gun liberal.
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Maybe you should base your vote on 2A, assuming you really believe in it, then maybe we can get our rights back. Any other political issue is moot compared to the anti constitutional sway of the political climate in this state.
Get that fixed first, then we can debate on other less important issues.
a better question would be to ask omnigun what he has ever done to, "protect our 2nd amendment rights"?
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a better question would be to ask omnigun what he has ever done to, "protect our 2nd amendment rights"?
I own guns, voted for the 2a candidates many times, funded the NRA, supported local and national gun shops with many purchases and more. What have you done that makes you so special mac?
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What have you done that makes you so special mac?
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Great response!
I'm sure you probably did more than me, you are an esteemed moderator of a 2a forum after all. But in all seriousness you probably are alot closer to the local gun community and maybe even financially helped in ways I can't afford etc. But to discount someone is in bad taste.
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But to discount someone is in bad taste.
so this, "is full of bible thumping hardcore conservatives. Full of conspiracies and pseudo science with a fairly closed viewpoints." is in good taste?
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so this, "is full of bible thumping hardcore conservatives. Full of conspiracies and pseudo science with a fairly closed viewpoints." is in good taste?
I would rate it on the bland side of taste. I guess in the end we are all guilty.
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I would rate it on the bland side of taste. I guess in the end we are all guilty.
so it's bland if you do it and bad if i do it?
i understand...
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so it's bland if you do it and bad if i do it?
i understand...
I just said we are both guilty T_T Read lol Mine wasn't targeted to one person though hence more bland.
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More like going around in threads shouting "FUCKING LIBERALS"/ "liberal trash", etc is probably not going to convince a democrat to support 2a.
Maybe we could (politely) submit (well-mannered) testimony by an overwhelming majority, say 112 to 7, to a legislative committee considering a bill to further obstruct our rights and then they'd restore our rights?
Oh, wait. We did that. Unanimous vote FOR the 7, AGAINST the 112. FUCKING LIBERALS.
How is it that language going to make it worse than unanimous against us? Double secret unanimous?
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The amount of hypocrisy from some of our members here is astounding. :o :o :o
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I agree with omni that, not just the views, but also the behavior of many members of this forum is alienating not just democrats but even those with libertarian, and party-neutral tendencies, from supporting 2A.
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This is the self designated safe space for far right conservative views.
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I agree with omni that, not just the views, but also the behavior of many members of this forum is alienating not just democrats but even those with libertarian, and party-neutral tendencies, from supporting 2A.
What facts back up your claim? Do you have numbers? Names?
Or is this something else "you just know?"
It's okay to have an opinion, but when challenged on the basis oif it, don't turn around and cry "He's alienating me!" We want to understand your point of view and how you arrived at it.
Think of it as, we don't just want you to give us the answer. We also want you to show us your work. If you can't, just say so. No sense in going into victim mode.
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This is the self designated safe space for far right conservative views.
Says the guy who pontificates about a subject and then when asked to provide ANY evidence to support his pontifications is completely silent. Nada. Zip.
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Jumping in a little late but I agree with Omni.
Many of the comments in this thread are perfect examples. Hostile, demeaning, full of sophist tripwires, and generally all-around unwelcoming to the average citizen who doesn't have the time or inclination to go wading into a briar patch looking for someone to have a normal conversation with.
If you need a place to vent then it's one thing, but as a tool of political organization 2aHawaii.com is about as useful as a turd in a punch bowl. Doesn't matter how good the recipe is because nobody is going to drink it.
Every once in a while I check in to see if things have changed and sometimes I get pleasantly surprised. Talking on this forum, participating in activities, and meeting some members in real life did alter some of my opinions after all so I'm grateful for the people out there who helped make me a more well rounded person.
Believe me, I understand the frustration though. The liberal silliness of every day life regularly irritates me and listening to a different brand of crazy every once in a while adds a little needed variety. Or maybe I just have a thing for briar patches.
(BTW I'm more of a Socialist. Don't really have a brand name because all purist political philosophies kind of suck, but some things are better left to private industry while other things government does way better....like health care.)
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I own guns, voted for the 2a candidates many times, funded the NRA, supported local and national gun shops with many purchases and more. What have you done that makes you so special mac?
Soooooo did you vote for Obozo? >:D
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I am pro gun and for sensible legislation. I would remove some Hawaii restrictions. However, I can't stand behind the racist white nationalist party that has consumed what used to be the Republican party.
Can you name a single racist Republican policy?
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I am pro gun and for sensible legislation. I would remove some Hawaii restrictions. However, I can't stand behind the racist white nationalist party that has consumed what used to be the Republican party.
Is it your belief that Democrats are not racists?
If so, you need to do some research. Anyone who supports (or tolerates) critical race theory is full-on racist.
CRT was developed at the Frankfurt School and its infamous Freudian-Marxism, though the proponents here would have us believe it was created in the US in the 1980s.
Regardless of when it was developed, the important fact that it incorporates the teachings and ideological views of Karl Marx can't be ignored.
... the Marxist basis of critical race theory is extremely important to understand because of how
dehumanizing and destructive it is, particularly to children. Karl Marx saw people not as individuals
made in the imago Dei — the Judeo-Christian conception of human beings made in the image of
God — but as groups to be shoved into opposing categories pitted against one another as foes.
Marx did this according to class and economics, i.e., the Proletariat vs. the bourgeoisie, whereas
Marxist critical race theorists do this according to race, i.e., white vs. black or some other ethnic-
based construct. One group is the oppressor and the other the oppressed; your category defines
you. Rather than aspiring to the color-blind world that Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. envisioned, where
individuals are judged by the content of their character, people are foremost viewed by the color of
their skin.
It is a terribly dehumanizing way to view people.
https://spectator.org/marxism-and-critical-race-theory/
Then there are the Affirmative Action supporters. Their policies embrace the "soft bigotry of low expectations." Rather than challenge all people to become better than they think they can be, the Affirmative Action supporters believe that Whites are superior, and that nonWhites are unable to achieve the same level of success on their own.
I could go on, but you can't honestly think the Democrats are any better than the opinion you have of the GOP.
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gun control is the dems trying to keep blacks from owning guns
KKK is dem too...
Is it your belief that Democrats are not racists?
If so, you need to do some research. Anyone who supports (or tolerates) critical race theory is full-on racist.
CRT was developed at the Frankfurt School and its infamous Freudian-Marxism, though the proponents here would have us believe it was created in the US in the 1980s.
Regardless of when it was developed, the important fact that it incorporates the teachings and ideological views of Karl Marx can't be ignored. https://spectator.org/marxism-and-critical-race-theory/
Then there are the Affirmative Action supporters. Their policies embrace the "soft bigotry of low expectations." Rather than challenge all people to become better than they think they can be, the Affirmative Action supporters believe that Whites are superior, and that nonWhites are unable to achieve the same level of success on their own.
I could go on, but you can't honestly think the Democrats are any better than the opinion you have of the GOP.
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Seems more anti American Democracy than pro gun. Of course I was raised around guns as a boy in California. My best friends parents were immigrant farm workers from Mexico that taught me to make my own weapons. I respected and learned many lessons from them that taught me to respect and work with all people. My grandfather was a farmer and I came to know many workers that would come to work and then return to their homes and families after each season.
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Seems more anti American Democracy than pro gun. Of course I was raised around guns as a boy in California. My best friends parents were immigrant farm workers from Mexico that taught me to make my own weapons. I respected and learned many lessons from them that taught me to respect and work with all people. My grandfather was a farmer and I came to know many workers that would come to work and then return to their homes and families after each season.
(https://i.imgur.com/0UnlIVe.jpeg)
Get it? Aliens?! :rofl: :geekdanc: :popcorn: