2aHawaii
Tools and Uses => Reloading => Topic started by: Pipitlvr808 on November 23, 2016, 10:34:24 AM
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I am interested in loading some 500 S&W rounds and wanted to see if anyone here has any input or experience loading these rounds before. I've priced around for some factory ammo here at our LGS and shooting cost anywhere from $4 to $6 per round. Main goal is to be able to shoot this gun without breaking the bank. I understand that I won't be popping this off as I do a 9mm or .40. So they say the price of ammo balances out. If loading my own will give me the opportunity to shoot and save more then why not.
I am purchasing some heads by bulk online and also some brass. Will be picking up some primers and gun powder here at a LGS. Here's what the plans are so far:
Heads: Rainier LeadSafe Bullets 50 Caliber (500 Diameter) 335 Grain Plated Hollow Point
Brass: Starline Reloading Brass 500 S&W Magnum
Primer: Large Rifle Primers (CCI)
Powder: Win296
What concerns me the most are the bullet heads. The Rainier brand has no cannelure on the bullet so case jumping may be a problem. It is also plated. Rainier ballistics say that the .50 cal heads are thicker plated and can be pushed to 1500 fps. They also stated a medium roll crimp is acceptable on these heads to help with case jumping. Is it worth it? Should I not be cheap and spend way more money on a FMJ head? I need the pop and the adrenaline rush that comes with this gun. That's why I purchased it.
I've loaded a lot of different calibers before from 9mm to 357 magnum loads. I've never loaded rifle rounds or anything this heavy. Through hours of research I have found some load data for this head. (335 grain JHP H110/W296 37.5 gr. ~1,500) Rainier suggest the same load data as a jacketed head.
Anyone out there have any input? Anyone load this particular round? If so, what type of load data do you use? I am open to all input or suggestions.
Thanks guys, and have a great Thanksgiving!
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I am interested in loading some 500 S&W rounds and wanted to see if anyone here has any input or experience loading these rounds before. I've priced around for some factory ammo here at our LGS and shooting cost anywhere from $4 to $6 per round. Main goal is to be able to shoot this gun without breaking the bank. I understand that I won't be popping this off as I do a 9mm or .40. So they say the price of ammo balances out. If loading my own will give me the opportunity to shoot and save more then why not.
I am purchasing some heads by bulk online and also some brass. Will be picking up some primers and gun powder here at a LGS. Here's what the plans are so far:
Heads: Rainier LeadSafe Bullets 50 Caliber (500 Diameter) 335 Grain Plated Hollow Point
Brass: Starline Reloading Brass 500 S&W Magnum
Primer: Large Rifle Primers (CCI)
Powder: Win296
What concerns me the most are the bullet heads. The Rainier brand has no cannelure on the bullet so case jumping may be a problem. It is also plated. Rainier ballistics say that the .50 cal heads are thicker plated and can be pushed to 1500 fps. They also stated a medium roll crimp is acceptable on these heads to help with case jumping. Is it worth it? Should I not be cheap and spend way more money on a FMJ head? I need the pop and the adrenaline rush that comes with this gun. That's why I purchased it.
I've loaded a lot of different calibers before from 9mm to 357 magnum loads. I've never loaded rifle rounds or anything this heavy. Through hours of research I have found some load data for this head. (335 grain JHP H110/W296 37.5 gr. ~1,500) Rainier suggest the same load data as a jacketed head.
Anyone out there have any input? Anyone load this particular round? If so, what type of load data do you use? I am open to all input or suggestions.
Thanks guys, and have a great Thanksgiving!
I have not loaded for the 500 but I have loaded for the 454 Casull using a 300gr SWC lead bullet with gas check around 1500fps and a 300gr jacketed bullet with cannelure at about 1600-1700fps. I used H110/W296 powder. A lot more recoil than I want. So I shoot a reduced load nowadays. Just so you know I have not had good luck with plated bullets in the past. I know others here have had and recommend some plated bullets. I just have not had good luck with plated bullets. Especially at high velocities.
When I loaded for this round at full power I did not have an issue with case jumping with the lead bullets as the crimp ring on the bullet is deep and I used a heavy crimp. With the jacketed bullets I only had one or two instances of the bullet moving inside the case during firing. I used a heavy crimp and the bullet had a cannelure. I am not sure why this occurred as none of my other cartridges exhibited this problem. I know some reloaders don't like to use a heavy crimp in order to extend case life. I am sure you know this but it is not a good idea to fire off a round where the bullet had dropped down into the case.
If Rainier states that a medium crimp is sufficient it would not hurt to try their recommendations. If you pay attention for the first 50 or 100 rounds or so and no problems with case jumping occurs then I think you can trust that you have a good cartridge. Part of the reloading experience is experimentation and trial and error with the myriad of supplies available everywhere. If the bullets don't work for you then learn from the experience and purchase a product that may work better. Like one with a cannelure or one that is jacketed instead of plated.
I found when trying to reload for economy there is a balance you will probably find. Not all bullets will work well in your gun. You may find that the Rainier bullets work well for you. You may find that they don't. You may find that a bullet from a major manufacturer works really well. If so, find out where you can get it at the best price. But if the Rainier works well enough for what you are trying to accomplish then stick with it. The one thing I'll say is that the cases, powder and primers you are using I have used for over 30 years and will work well for you. After you find a good bullet to use then you might want to try other powders.
Let us know how the Rainier bullets work for you.
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I have never loaded .50 or anything that heavy recoiling, however, I have tried Rainier LeadSafe Bullets in .45ACP. Those plated bullets are soft enough that a roll crimp would press into the bullet and may deter bullet setback or pull out on recoil.
Good luck and post some results, interested in seeing them!
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The 500 magnum is the reason I started reloading. I have only used 400 grain Sierra JSPs because I decided to stick with jacketed bullets and those are the only ones I could find . . . occasionally. I have been waiting for 350 grain JSPs to come in stock somewhere but no luck. I am still playing around with between 36 and 40 grains of Win 296 and while you can feel the difference between the 36 and 40 grain loads it's not by a lot. I use Starline Brass and CCI large rifle magnum primers out of a 4" barrel. My favorite load is 17 grains of Titegroup which is pretty mild compared to the 296 loads, accurate, but that load is allegedly responsible for most of the KABOOMS I read about on the other forums (Google 500 magnum loads with Titegroup). When I load 500 with Titegroup, I weigh and record each shell with primer, the bullet and then weigh the finished round to make sure my powder charge is accurate and obviously no double charge. I use a redding profile crimp die. I see Berrys has a 350 grain plated bullet with cannelure which I am tempted to try with Titegroup. It's been a couple of years but I used to buy 325 grain Magtech JSP for under $40.00 / 20 rounds at SEC.
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I forgot to mention that if you want more recoil you can always shoot a heavier bullet. You know the old saying "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction".
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Hey guys. I appreciate all the input on this subject. I will definitely post pictures with results when I get these items in. My kids Christmas list put my funds on pause for awhile. Still undecided on the heads that I would like to start off with first. Will decided depending on my budget after Christmas. I've spent hours watching "cast bullets" on Youtube. It is a hobby that I would love to get into but as of right now, no time for another. Anyone here cast .50? Also, what grain and load data do you use?
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Plated rainier. Crimped down so theres a little imprint. Should I go a little more? Dont want the plating to rip apart.
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I would think that without a cannelure you might want to use a taper crimp rather than a roll crimp. You can try the crimp you have but I tend to think one should not put that much pressure on the bullet. Otherwise it could get distorted or like you are concerned with the plating can dislodge from the core.
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IMHO, That should do fine. The plating shouldn't come off, and it should hold the bullet in recoil.
Give er a check after the first few shots.
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Rainier suggested a slight roll crimp just enough to imprint on the plating to eliminate case jumping. I agree that it wont damage the bullet unless I cut in deeper. I only ordered a small amount of these heads so if I do get case jumping I'll only load one at a time. After I run out I'll stick to jacketed or lead with gas check. Probably wont have time to shoot it til next month but i will definatly keep you guys informed. I want to get my hand on sime t-rex thumpers (700 grain). Anyone out there want to share an order?
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Shot 10 rounds today. Load data for 335 grain Rainier heads with no cannelure was scarce online. Only data I found called for 37.5 grain of H110/W296. That is where I started from. I decided to load 5 at 37.5 grain and 5 at 38.5 grain. I also loaded all rounds in cylinder and measured round 5 after each shot. I DID GET A VERY SLIGHT CASE JUMP. I had no issues with copper plating dislodging or disfiguring with the amount of crimp that I used. I believe I may be able to get away with applying a bit more crimp to help eliminate case jumping. My grouping wasn't the greatest with both loads. However I did take some Performix in the morning and was nervous as heck, lol. I'm also shooting from a 4" barrel. (I know excuses for being a poor shot.) Also noticed that shot placement was 2" lower with the hotter load. Here's the data:
37.5 grain W296
1: 1293 fps
2: 1362 fps
3: 1148 fps
4: 1340 fps
5: 1315 fps
Avg: 1291 fps
38.5 grain W296
1: 1369
2: 1364
3: 1277
4: 1392
5: 1388
Avg: 1358 fps
After every shot with both loads, round 5 jumped approximately .005. Round 5 started at 1.975 and after the 4th round being shot it was at 1.995. I felt that it was safe enough to shoot that last round and had no issues with it. Rainier's plated bullets are rated at 1500 fps so I do have some room for play. I believe I can push it out to a 40 grain load to achieve maximum speed with this particular head. If you plan on shooting out of a longer barrel I would stay around the 37.5 grain. Longer barrel = more velocity. I was fortunate to have a friend that was able to help me with a chronograph today. I don't know if I will have access to one again. Keep you all posted on the 40 grain if I do. I'm open to any and all input.
Hope you all have a great Holiday Season. Merry Christmas.
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My secret Santa knew what I wanted this year for Christmas.
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Good info :thumbsup:
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woot woot! Sounded like some fun!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: I think you should be fine with a little more crimp. Less time inside the barrel = lower point of impact. Those 700 grainers look wicked! :o
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WOW! Great info! Thanks for being a recoil junkie and taking one for the team! :shake:
Seriously tho, I couldn't do that without some extreme pain. :thumbsup:
Those 700 grain "Heads" are HUGE!!! Being that you enjoy the recoil those "Heads" should be a pleasure to shoot.
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Just got these Berrys 350 grain plated bullets with cannelure. The label on the box says good to 2000 fps. Based on the posted data here, thanks Pipit, probably will be loading for 1400 fps max. Got them from Midway and while I had to pay ten bucks for "free shipping", I received them in four days.
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Just got these Berrys 350 grain plated bullets with cannelure. The label on the box says good to 2000 fps. Based on the posted data here, thanks Pipit, probably will be loading for 1400 fps max. Got them from Midway and while I had to pay ten bucks for "free shipping", I received them in four days.
That's a good looking canelure for a plated bullet. Planning to put that in the cart for my next purchase from Midway. My pleasure that I could assist in anyway. I was nervous loading this round but extremely confident after my first test. Will be at the range on Saturday the 7th to test out some new loads, even the 700 grain. You guys are more than welcome to introduce yourself and fire some rounds through the Chrono.
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Are you aware of the double tap phenomenon?
https://youtu.be/C4OE78spknk
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Are you aware of the double tap phenomenon?
https://youtu.be/C4OE78spknk
This is exactly why we stopped putting 2 rounds in the magazine of the Desert Eagle at the Shooting Sports Fair a few years back. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Yes sir, that is exactly why I will always load one round the first time to get a feel for it. It's some scary stuff.
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At least she didn't get hit in the forehead with the revolver:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3PUXbo3tCo
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Yes sir, that is exactly why I will always load one round the first time to get a feel for it. It's some scary stuff.
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It seems to me that with only 1 round, the only way to tell if the gun had double fired would be to observe the position of the empty shell.
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Drives me crazy when I see people improperly hold a revolver. I want to correct them every time. I've seen a few videos with the support hand under the grip or behind the grip. Tuck your grip thumb under your support thumb! I wouldn't have known any better if someone didn't teach me right.
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I love this hobby
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I love this hobby
Yeah, that's kewl!!!!
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On the left too much crimp. I feel that the right is just perfect. I'm surprised at how well the plating is at .004.
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Hold your revolver right peeps.
https://youtu.be/UCbp9-WCYbM
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Makes me want to get a 500!
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Didn't somebody kill themselves when the 500 recoiled back into their head then double fired?
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Negligent suicide. Gun spun around on the recoil and trigger reset. Sad and unfortunate incident.
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I load for big caliber handguns and can offer you some safety tips to keep in mind. First with H110 or Win 296 double check the recommended primer (Most of my loads call for Magnum Lrg Pistol Primers). These powders are best loaded to where you do not have any empty space in the case and they require a good hot ignition with a heavy crimp or you could get a squib load where the powder does not ignite and will push the bullet partially up the barrel. I like the Lee Factory Crimp Die as this will put a nice tight uniform crimp around the circumference of your 500 even though your bullets do not have a cannelure. The down side is you will need to do a custom order with Lee for this factory crimp die.
Also, for whatever bullets you decide to buy and use do not exceed the manufacturers velocity rating. I load for 500 Linbaugh, 50 AE, 50 Beowulf and 454 Casull and you can have a major issue with an over pressure situation if you use a max load with a bullet that is not designed to take the pressure. What happens is that when the bullet enters the rear of your revolver barrel (The forcing cone) the bullet will obturate and essentially squash up on the forcing cone (If it is pushed beyond its jacket design limits). This will have the same effect as having an obstructed barrel and could be catastrophic. Just be careful when you evaluate your load combo and exercise some caution on your selection of components.
When you get up into these large caliber handguns you are in a whole new league. I'm thinking that your 500 S&W has a brake plus it is a large heavy frame so recoil should not be an issue. You should get a long life out of your cases because straight wall pistol cases hardly stretch much. I have some that have 6 loadings on them and still are in good shape.
Welcome to big bore hand gunning----just be careful !!
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So, I went to the range today. I never seem to leave there without a huge smile on my face. Today was bigger than usual. I purchased a Chrono. There are a wide selection out there and I'm not to familiar with them. This particular one was within my budget and also exceeded my expectations for it's cost. Because of the slope at the pistol range the tripod it came with was about a foot shorter than what I needed. I was able to adjust and get the information I needed with the rounds I've loaded. I'm not sure how other Chronographs work but this one hooked up right to my android phone, logged, and calculated all the information I needed. I was also able to email, text, save, share, etc, the data straight from my phone. Here's a link to the one I purchased for less than $100: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HTN5290/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Alright, enough of the review. Lets get to some data. Keep in mind, that I am using a 4" barrel. For a longer barrel you will get a higher fps.
Description: Rainier 335 Grain Plated HP
Powder: 40 grn of W296
Primers: CCI lrg rifle magnum primers
Distance to Chrono (FT): 10.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 335.000
Temp: 72 °F
BP: 30.02 inHG
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
5 1427 1514.98 478.05
4 1430 1521.36 479.05
3 1421 1502.27 476.04
2 1462 1590.21 489.77
1 1475 1618.62 494.12
Average: 1443.00
StdDev: 23.95
Min: 1421
Max: 1475
Spread: 54
True MV: NaN
Shots/sec: 0.03
Comments: I was able to push this load as close to the 1,500 fps that Rainier suggested as a max FPS. Not planing on pushing this particular head any further. This load offered a decent snap at the wrist and was enough to grab the attention from everyone next to me at the range. Good, cheap, plinking head when out at the range or want to show off to your friends and let them try and shoot. At .17 cents a head you can't go wrong. Accuracy is TBD. It could be that I get jittery and nervous when I pull this gun out.
Description: Hornaday FTX 300 grain
Powder: 45 of grn 296
Primers: CCI lrg rifle magnum primers
Distance to Chrono (FT): 10.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 300.000
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: 73 °F
BP: 30.04 inHG
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
5 1625 1759.31 487.50
4 1735 2005.56 520.50
3 1703 1932.26 510.90
2 1713 1955.02 513.90
1 1545 1590.35 463.50
Average: 1664.20
StdDev: 78.49
Min: 1545
Max: 1735
Spread: 190
True MV: NaN
Shots/sec: 0.03
Comments: This load packed a lot of snap at the wrist. The load data started at 43.6 grns to max at 51.4 grns. I loaded these at 45 grains. Accuracy again, could be my nerves, wasn't my favorite of the heads I shot today. Feeling of the revolver snapping back I liked. I think this was the loudest pop out of the 4.
Description: Hornady XTP 350 grain
Powder: 43 grn of W296
Primer: CCI lrg rifle mag primers
Distance to Chrono (FT): 10.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 350.000
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: 74 °F
BP: 30.04 inHG
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
5 1577 1933.07 551.95
4 1539 1841.03 538.65
3 1505 1760.58 526.75
2 1490 1725.66 521.50
1 1554 1877.09 543.90
Average: 1533.00
StdDev: 35.52
Min: 1490
Max: 1577
Spread: 87
True MV: NaN
Shots/sec: 0.02
Comments: This was my favorite out of all. I don't know if my nerves went away shooting the ones before or the heads and data loads makes a huge difference. But this load and particular bullet is super accurate. 43 grn of W296 is max for this head. 1st shot was a straggler and went 3" high. 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th round was within a 1.5" group. I could've kept going and impressing myself, but I only made 5 for today. This bullet had a nice snap at the wrist and a decent punch going backwards into my hand. Although most people consider the punch of this gun painful, it was very minute to me.
Description: Matts Bullets WFN GC 700 Grain
Powder: 25 grn of W296
Primer: CCI lrg rifle mag primers
Distance to Chrono (FT): 10.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 700.000
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: 75 °F
BP: 30.04 inHG
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
5 954 1414.85 667.80
4 929 1341.67 650.30
3 967 1453.67 676.90
2 963 1441.67 674.10
1 932 1350.35 652.40
Average: 949.00
StdDev: 17.56
Min: 929
Max: 967
Spread: 38
True MV: NaN
Shots/sec: 0.02
Comments: Here we go, for the big guy. Nerves came back before the round entered the chamber. I lined up the sights as I did before and BOOM! Shot was about 8" high and hit the cross wood on the frame blowing half of it away. At 25 grns of W296 theres not much powder behind this head. Not much room to add more either. 2nd round, same thing, high. Last three rounds I aimed at the bottom cross wood on the frame and was able to get it on the card board. I can not say anything about the accuracy on this load because I was flinching and praying my gun doesn't KABOOM. This round did not pack a snap but more of a punch like a shotgun rifle. It pushes back and digs into your hand hard. It does hurt for a second but pain goes away almost immediately. Next order of these will be without gas check (cheaper). I think I could get away with it because I don't get the higher FPS as I would in a longer barrel.
In conclusion, I couldn't be happier with my decision to purchase this firearm and load my own rounds. It is definitely and attention grabber and very fun to shoot. It also gets your blood pumping and perfect for when you need to let off a few rounds at end of your day at the range.
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AWESOME range report! Sounds fun and exciting. Like watching a great suspense film! Lol!