2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: 841gun on November 30, 2016, 08:17:08 AM
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Here it is
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnskdHWMIEc
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Did you try to contact the HRA and get any input from them?
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Guess I'm picking up my last gun on Friday lol.
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Guess I'm picking up my last gun on Friday lol.
I thought this was coming in the August-September timeframe. When it didn't come about last month, I picked up something else. Earlier this week, I was entertaining selling an AK and picking up another as well as a lever gun. I'll probably put all that on hold at least for a little while to see how things sort out.
I just don't see myself not getting anything else, ever. That said, maybe a good thing as I don't "need" anything else. Hell, I probably don't "need" 70% of what I have. ;D
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I thought this was coming in the August-September timeframe. When it didn't come about last month, I picked up something else. Earlier this week, I was entertaining selling an AK and picking up another as well as a lever gun. I'll probably put all that on hold at least for a little while to see how things sort out.
I just don't see myself not getting anything else, ever. That said, maybe a good thing as I don't "need" anything else. Hell, I probably don't "need" 70% of what I have. ;D
Uncle Trump needs to fix everything lol.
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Uncle Trump needs to fix everything lol.
I knew it! You two are related! I can see the family resemblance! :P
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The only way now is for someone to bring them to court. who has the time and the funds for that, it would be a massive undertaking. You know our leftist liberal judges will never go against our leftist liberal lawmakers, it will have to go, probably, all the way to the SCOTUS. :( I appreciate you are supporting and asking about the NRAs help on this. However, the NRA is a organization that works at a national level, and do that well. At a state level our local gun rights groups would have to go in on this for help. However, folks have the same ainokea attitude towards them as well. I certainly hope that the NRA sees how this could become a problem nationally and helps out, but until it does become a national problem, I wouldn't count on it.
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I knew it! You two are related! I can see the family resemblance! :P
It's the hair right?
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It's the hair right?
;D
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http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/33790601/manhunt-for-mccully-murder-suspect-nathaniel-foster (http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/33790601/manhunt-for-mccully-murder-suspect-nathaniel-foster)
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is this confirmed with HPD firearms division?
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A court case will be very difficult and I don't think we will win. It would have to be challenged on constitutional grounds which I don't see happening. The time to stop this law was before it passed.
I was hoping the FBI would not play along with rapback or it would be too challenging for HPD to implement. The NRA should be concerned as other states may try and copy Hawaii.
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80% lowers......
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is this confirmed with HPD firearms division?
yes according to the vid
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The only way now is for someone to bring them to court. who has the time and the funds for that, it would be a massive undertaking. You know our leftist liberal judges will never go against our leftist liberal lawmakers, it will have to go, probably, all the way to the SCOTUS. :( I appreciate you are supporting and asking about the NRAs help on this. However, the NRA is a organization that works at a national level, and do that well. At a state level our local gun rights groups would have to go in on this for help. However, folks have the same ainokea attitude towards them as well. I certainly hope that the NRA sees how this could become a problem nationally and helps out, but until it does become a national problem, I wouldn't count on it.
My understanding is that the NRA (largely) funded Michel and Associates, attorneys for Peruta in the California state case Peruta v. San Diego, which was argued in the en banc orals by Paul Clement. Alan Gura, who argued for Richards in Richards v. Prieto was hired and funded by the Second Amendment Foundation. Either of those organizations could have helped
fund Baker or Young, but chose not to. And they certainly are not assisting Mr. Nichols in his California open carry lawsuit, Nichols v. Brown, et al..
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yes according to the vid
I just called too. and yes, next week it starts. >:(
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I sure hope this catches criminals.
For those of you law abiding citizens standing in line please log all your encounters with criminals here. Make it a sticky.
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If the rationale of rapback is to put people in positions of trust to continuous background checks.... shouldn't we start with elected officials? police officers?
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If the rationale of rapback is to put people in positions of trust to continuous background checks.... shouldn't we start with elected officials? police officers?
Police, teachers, and some other occupations are registered in rapback
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If the rationale of rapback is to put people in positions of trust to continuous background checks.... shouldn't we start with elected officials? police officers?
Hillary Clinton should've been on Rap Back
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Firearm Owners Protection Act 1986:
No such rule or regulation prescribed after the date of the enactment of the Firearms Owners Protection Act may require that records required to be maintained under this chapter or any portion of the contents of such records, be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof, nor that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions or disposition be established. Nothing in this section expands or restricts the Secretary's authority to inquire into the disposition of any firearm in the course of a criminal investigation
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NRA knows about it. Just says it is naughty.
http://www.bizpacreview.com/2016/06/26/governor-makes-history-by-turning-over-all-registered-gun-owners-to-fbi-for-federal-database-356982
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I will not buy another firearm this atrocity ends. Doesn't mean I'll stop buying parts, ammo, mags or countermeasures. My hope is that the new DOJ and FBI will not cooperate with the state's requests and nip this quick. If the city does not allow processing of firearms purchases due to the FBI's actions, my hope is that named city and state officials including the state/city entities are sued or charged with violating individual's civil rights. That's why I'm following how the new feds handle those rebellious sanctuary cities. All those city officials should be placed on the No Fly list.
Because anti gun politicians, groups and the current state and city administrations have no qualms in destroying you, your family, taking your possessions and home, I hope the new DOJ and AG will secretly place these on the No Fly List and make it no fly-no drive. Sounds vindictive yeah, but they have no hesitation doing it to us. They may be allowed to drive in HI but their names would be on lists at all rental companies nationwide and if caught driving on interstates, charged with federal crimes. They need to have a taste of their own medicine.
If the state ever tried to make this retroactive - DO NOT COMPLY!!!!!
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These same officials will take your tax money to defend their anti-2A laws and policies. Sick isn't it ? :grrr:
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and if this discourages law-abiding folks from acquiring guns, then the anti-gun nazis will have succeeded beyond their wildest dreams with this seemingly harmless legislation.
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Firearm Owners Protection Act 1986:
No such rule or regulation prescribed after the date of the enactment of the Firearms Owners Protection Act may require that records required to be maintained under this chapter or any portion of the contents of such records, be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof, nor that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions or disposition be established. Nothing in this section expands or restricts the Secretary's authority to inquire into the disposition of any firearm in the course of a criminal investigation
You got it Stang ! :thumbsup:
Firearm Owners Protection Act 1986: :worship:
The real purpose of this law here in Hawaii is to make you STOP BUYING GUNS ! :wtf:
WhyNow is falling right into this trap.
We need one guy to attempt to register and take it to court like Baker.
I just picked up my "last" gun" recently but somebody out there has got to pick something up after the 5th.
I ( we ) will help n whatever way I (we) can.
Sorry, I'm pissed :grrr: as this is a biggy and the NRA should have been on this when it started. :sleeping:
Letting me know by the usual NRA Email news letter that this is happening in Hawaii is not enough.
I (we) know it's happening. :shake:
If the NRA is not wiling to help in Baker or this one, what am I paying my union dues for ? ???
We all need to call, write or Email the NRA and let them know that without their help we will lose our fight and our right and if they don't help us.....STOP CALLING US ASKING FOR MONEY AND MEMBERSHIP FEES !
Time for the NRA to step up or shut up.
If not, you can count on me NOT renewing my membership, time or other donations :wave:
They'll get my calls tomorrow.
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You got it Stang ! :thumbsup:
Firearm Owners Protection Act 1986: :worship:
The real purpose of this law here in Hawaii is to make you STOP BUYING GUNS ! :wtf:
WhyNow is falling right into this trap.
You can correctly state I'm falling into the trap set by the state. However, after buying 4 long guns and some lowers this year, I don't have a need for anymore firearms. Sure I want a lot of stuff but don't need it. Even if rapback dies I don't plan on buying any new guns or more correctly spending money to buy a new gun, but things may change later, I dunno. So my statement is also correct.
My priorities have changed and this year spent the most on changing the rest of my windows and glass to e-glass with added security features and getting some split unit AC. Next year I will also spend my cash on less expensive home improvements and also want to get a Stihl 261 chainsaw mainly for its decomp valve. Three years from now, my plans take me into a different priority altogether.
However some of my firearms related goals like accumulating 1K of 12 ga. 00BK and slugs remain alive this year and next.
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I will be calling the AG's office tomorrow to confirm that Rapback is going int effect , I will be heading to HPD and the AG's office on Friday to try and get copys of the policy and privacy documents.
HPD can say what they want but they dont administer the program all they can do is pass the information on to the Hawaii AG's Office who would actually add you to the program. Although the law was passed as rapback They AG's office does not have the legal authority to share your information with the FBI.
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I just called too. and yes, next week it starts. >:(
Glad I got my minor business done a couple weeks ago.
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Time for the NRA to step up or shut up.
If not, you can count on me NOT renewing my membership, time or other donations :wave:
They'll get my calls tomorrow.
Donating to the wrong organization. The regular NRA fees go towards administration, hunting, safety programs, and training.
For legislative actions and the courts, you have to donate to the separate NRA ILA (Institute for Legislative Action). It's the org that does the suits.
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Donating to the wrong organization. The regular NRA fees go towards administration, hunting, safety programs, and training.
For legislative actions and the courts, you have to donate to the separate NRA ILA (Institute for Legislative Action). It's the org that does the suits.
Wish they would but I think they feel this liberal cesspool of a state ain't worth it...they got bigger fish to fry....
I'll be finding out about Rap Back in about 3 weeks. Got a new pistol coming in. Ordered it on Monday and it's being shipped tomorrow. If I cancel it costs me $120). I'll have my day with them though, will pay for this BS in coins, lots of coins and my good friend, who is a lawyer, will be coming with me to counter any BS about it ( I'll also have the bills just in case). I guarantee this; if they refuse the rolled coins, there will be a lawsuit. :wtf:
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What would happen if you tell them you don't have the cash for the Rapback fee ?
Could they refuse to register your firearm ?
Could you ask for a note stating they refused to register your legally acquired firearm?
(I want to buy Mrgaf's Ruger sr9c but don't wan't to be in Rapback on principal)
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Question is, how is the general public supposed to know the who, what, when, and how much about this? I haven't seen any announcements, HPD website has no updates, I have not heard or seen anything about this. I just went there last week, no mention of it....
Where is the information coming from? Why do you have to ask the guy at the window, why didn't they have the information available for everyone?
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http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2016/bills/SB2954_HD1_.HTM
"(i) No fee shall be charged for permits, or applications for permits, under this section, except for a single fee chargeable by and payable to the issuing county, for individuals applying for their first permit, in an amount equal to the fee [actually] charged by the [Federal Bureau of Investigation to the issuing police department for a fingerprint check in connection with that application or permit.] Hawaii criminal justice data center pursuant to section 846-2.7. In the case of a joint application, the fee provided for in this section may be charged to each person to whom no previous permit has been issued."
What is the fee? doesn't say. First time applicants only, according to this above. ^^^
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrs2006/Vol14_Ch0701-0853/HRS0846/HRS_0846-0002_0007.HTM
§846-2.7 Criminal history record checks. (a) The agencies and other entities named in subsection (b) may conduct state and national criminal history record checks on the personnel identified in subsection (b), for the purpose of determining suitability or fitness for a permit, license, or employment; provided that the Hawaii criminal justice data center may charge a reasonable fee for the criminal history record checks performed. The criminal history record check shall include the submission of fingerprints to: ...
What is a reasonable fee? Who determines this?
http://ag.hawaii.gov/hcjdc/criminal-history-records-check/
$30, Is this the new fee?
Or add on this? +$30 for fingerprint check
http://ag.hawaii.gov/hcjdc/criminal-history-frequently-asked-questions/#cost
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the fee [actually] charged by the Hawaii criminal justice data center pursuant to section 846-2.7.
§846-2.7 Criminal history record checks. (a) The agencies and other entities named in subsection (b) may conduct state and national criminal history record checks on the personnel identified in subsection (b), and participate in the rap back program, for the purpose of determining suitability or fitness for a permit, license, or employment; provided that the Hawaii criminal justice data center may charge a reasonable fee for the criminal history record checks performed. The agencies and other entities named in subsection
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Donating to the wrong organization. The regular NRA fees go towards administration, hunting, safety programs, and training.
For legislative actions and the courts, you have to donate to the separate NRA ILA (Institute for Legislative Action). It's the org that does the suits.
Sorry dude, the Institute for Legislative Action (ILA) is the "lobbying" arm of the National Rifle Association.
Besides......
My feelings are hurt and I don't think this is fair ! :(
I want a safe place to cry ! :'(
I want a coloring book ! :P
I want milk and cookies and a nap ! :sleeping:
I want my Mommym! :love:
I want to protest ! >:D
Do you really know what I want ? :closed:
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Donating to the wrong organization. The regular NRA fees go towards administration, hunting, safety programs, and training.
For legislative actions and the courts, you have to donate to the separate NRA ILA (Institute for Legislative Action). It's the org that does the suits.
Of all the donations, by mainlanders and Hawaii residents to ANY and ALL parts of the NRA, not one single cent has made it's way to support Baker or Young or Fisher (as far as I can determine. Wolfwood, if they are compensating you, please let us know.). Be sure to send them more money so they get the message. Sure. Right.
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Sorry dude, the Institute for Legislative Action (ILA) is the "lobbying" arm of the National Rifle Association.
Besides......
My feelings are hurt and I don't think this is fair ! :(
I want a safe place to cry ! :'(
I want a coloring book ! :P
I want milk and cookies and a nap ! :sleeping:
I want my Mommym! :love:
I want to protest ! >:D
Do you really know what I want ? :closed:
You want Play-Doh
There fixed it for ya
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You better watch out,
You better not cry,
You better not pout,
I'm telling you why:
F-B-I is coming to town!
They’re making a list,
And checking it twice,
Gonna find out who's naughty or nice.
F-B-I is coming to town!
They see you when you're sleeping,
They know when you're awake.
They know when you've been bad or good,
So be good for goodness sake!
OH!...You better watch out, You better not cry
You better not pout, I'm Telling you why.
F-B-I is coming to town.
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Just sent this to the NRA-ILA via https://www.nraila.org/contact-nra-ila/
Please let them know how you feel. :grrr:
If it gets the same response as we get from applying for CCW here in Hawaii, we can all save a lot of money on them "Membership dues". :wave:
I know I will. :closed:
Dear NRA-ILA
On June 23, 2016, Governor Ige of Hawaii was the first in the nation to sign a bill to turn over all of Hawaii's gun owners into a federal database.
On Monday December 5, 2016 Rap Back goes into effect.
There are already several standing laws regarding a National database of firearms owners, so why are you not/have not been jumping on this and nipping it in the bud ?
Do you think other states will not use this as a precedent to enact similar gun control laws in their states ?
I am DEEPLY concerned that our NRA-ILA has done nothing to help the firearms owners of Hawaii to combat this atrocity violating our 2nd amendment rights.
(My original concern was the lack of NRA-ILA assistance in the Baker case)
Your twitter June 24 of this year "Breaking: exercising constitutional rights in #Hawaii now gets you entered into a federal watchlist, er, database" was too little of what I expected from the bastion of our 2nd Amendment rights.
The Firearms community of Hawaii supports the NRA because the
NRA supports privacy rights for gun owners.
According to the NRA, NRA's first purpose and objective is:
"To protect and defend the Constitution of the United States, especially with reference to the inalienable right of the individual American citizen guaranteed by such Constitution to acquire, possess, collect, exhibit, transport, carry, transfer ownership of, and enjoy the right to use arms."
We here in Hawaii are waiting for you to show us that commitment.
Respectfully submitted,
RXOXCXKXYX
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bottom line, we're screwed. i'm not happy bout it either.
doesn't willie espero represent the ewa side? there's a helluvalot of gun owners in those parts. how'd he get elected, re-elected? didn't the gun owners vote? yep, it's the unbeatable democrat juggernaut.
if all oahu gun owners had turned out to vote, vote against Ige when it mattered, yes, crying over spilled milk, trying to close the barn doors after the cows have all run away, damage is done, now we're in damage control mode...
i wouldn't be surprised if half of hawaii gun owners actually voted for Ige, for Espero. they bought in to the other election priorities, campaign promises. we screwed ourselves. we screwed the pooch here.
somebody mentioned, help from "Uncle Trump". ... as if Hawaii is one of the states that supported Trump. and we need him to save us as badly as California, New York, Massachussetts, etc all do.
heck, Hawaii was counted in Hillary's column before our polls even closed, before the 1st printout! WTF! not even the courtesy of a chance.
heck, look, Sam Slom didn't get re-elected, and he's probably the most helpful to us Hawaii gun owners. we're going to hell in a hand-basket!
it's gonna take a local gun-owner lawyer, who himself is P.O.'d, and takes this on, on behalf of all of us armchair monday morning QB's.
looking for Big Daddy NRA to bail us out of this mess we allowed ourselves to sink into? can't blame Muffi for splitting the opposition vote, divide & conquer. i think there's a Jerry Maguire moment in there, something about helping our selves...
next election cycle, anybody gonna remember? anything gonna change? are we going to get the gun-owning non-voters to move from apathy to action? what're the vegas odds on that happening?
hey, don't flame me, i'm just looking at a grim picture. bearer of bad tidings. i'm just the messenger, and it's an butt-fugly message.
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Per a Sgt at the firearms division via telephone inquiry today 12/2/2016 at 10:39am HST:
-$42.00 one time fee cash or CC for the rap back that includes new fingerprinting and new application to get you into the Rap Back System.
-Not retroactive at this time, so if you won't be purchasing new guns or re-newing long gun permits on or after 12/05/2016, they can't make you.
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With rap back there is no need for a waiting period or need for renewal
Once you're in the system, you're in the system
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part 2.
so is it the end of the world? will the sun come up on Dec 6th? will it stop gun sales in Hawaii?
my guess is that the lines at HPD will still be as long, as usual.
the average new gun purchaser will only notice that "the fee" went up.
instead of just being in a C&C or state database, we graduated to the majors, we're now in with the FBI, congratulations. when i buy my next gun (notice, i didn't say "if"), i'll probably have the same trepidation, same nervousness as my first time purchase, standing at the counter at HPD to register. and we can't really take it out on the good-guy HPD officers who work the window, they're actually pretty good. not their fault. it's the people we voted into office.
this is all part of the "cost" of living in Hawaii, what we put up with, in order to live in paradise. our fellow citizens foist these burdens upon us because they don't like the way we think. and they're probably in the minority, but they vote. we put up with the traffic, idiot legislators, corrupt politicians, having to pay higher shipping cost for our gun parts, the 4% excise tax on everything, Servco monopoly on toyotas, no drag strip, big frickin centipedes, long lines at HPD, sucky parking, not having AR-15 pistols, 10-round pistol mags, and now Willie Espero's Rap-Back.
but, sadly, as Reload Hawaii VLOG points out, this really penalizes the military, those who rotate through here. all of us have seen when a newly-arrived military member is down at HPD, duly complying with state law, registering his dozen firearms, respectful of hawaii law. and then, when they rotate back to the real world, "state-side" (e.g. Arizona, Texas, other gun-friendly states), they're still in the FBI data base, thanks to Hawaii. spirit of Aloha goes with them!
of course, Willie Espero is gonna say he's doing the other states a favor. yeah, right.
this is how Hawaii legislators (Ige, Espero) thank those who've served, those who fight to preserve our way of life, our rights, etc. might as well take a sharp stick and poke them in the eye, why don't you.
ok, i think i've said my peace.
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Any lawsuit ready on Monday?
Once its implemented it would violate FOPA .
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bottom line, we're screwed. i'm not happy bout it either.
doesn't willie espero represent the ewa side? there's a helluvalot of gun owners in those parts. how'd he get elected, re-elected? didn't the gun owners vote? yep, it's the unbeatable democrat juggernaut.
if all oahu gun owners had turned out to vote, vote against Ige when it mattered, yes, crying over spilled milk, trying to close the barn doors after the cows have all run away, damage is done, now we're in damage control mode...
i wouldn't be surprised if half of hawaii gun owners actually voted for Ige, for Espero. they bought in to the other election priorities, campaign promises. we screwed ourselves. we screwed the pooch here.
somebody mentioned, help from "Uncle Trump". ... as if Hawaii is one of the states that supported Trump. and we need him to save us as badly as California, New York, Massachussetts, etc all do.
heck, Hawaii was counted in Hillary's column before our polls even closed, before the 1st printout! WTF! not even the courtesy of a chance.
heck, look, Sam Slom didn't get re-elected, and he's probably the most helpful to us Hawaii gun owners. we're going to hell in a hand-basket!
it's gonna take a local gun-owner lawyer, who himself is P.O.'d, and takes this on, on behalf of all of us armchair monday morning QB's.
looking for Big Daddy NRA to bail us out of this mess we allowed ourselves to sink into? can't blame Muffi for splitting the opposition vote, divide & conquer. i think there's a Jerry Maguire moment in there, something about helping our selves...
next election cycle, anybody gonna remember? anything gonna change? are we going to get the gun-owning non-voters to move from apathy to action? what're the vegas odds on that happening?
hey, don't flame me, i'm just looking at a grim picture. bearer of bad tidings. i'm just the messenger, and it's an butt-fugly message.
part 2.
so is it the end of the world? will the sun come up on Dec 6th? will it stop gun sales in Hawaii?
my guess is that the lines at HPD will still be as long, as usual.
the average new gun purchaser will only notice that "the fee" went up.
instead of just being in a C&C or state database, we graduated to the majors, we're now in with the FBI, congratulations. when i buy my next gun (notice, i didn't say "if"), i'll probably have the same trepidation, same nervousness as my first time purchase, standing at the counter at HPD to register. and we can't really take it out on the good-guy HPD officers who work the window, they're actually pretty good. not their fault. it's the people we voted into office.
this is all part of the "cost" of living in Hawaii, what we put up with, in order to live in paradise. our fellow citizens foist these burdens upon us because they don't like the way we think. and they're probably in the minority, but they vote. we put up with the traffic, idiot legislators, corrupt politicians, having to pay higher shipping cost for our gun parts, the 4% excise tax on everything, Servco monopoly on toyotas, no drag strip, big frickin centipedes, long lines at HPD, sucky parking, not having AR-15 pistols, 10-round pistol mags, and now Willie Espero's Rap-Back.
but, sadly, as Reload Hawaii VLOG points out, this really penalizes the military, those who rotate through here. all of us have seen when a newly-arrived military member is down at HPD, duly complying with state law, registering his dozen firearms, respectful of hawaii law. and then, when they rotate back to the real world, "state-side" (e.g. Arizona, Texas, other gun-friendly states), they're still in the FBI data base, thanks to Hawaii. spirit of Aloha goes with them!
of course, Willie Espero is gonna say he's doing the other states a favor. yeah, right.
this is how Hawaii legislators (Ige, Espero) thank those who've served, those who fight to preserve our way of life, our rights, etc. might as well take a sharp stick and poke them in the eye, why don't you.
ok, i think i've said my peace.
THIS^^^^^^^^
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part 2.
so is it the end of the world? will the sun come up on Dec 6th? will it stop gun sales in Hawaii?
my guess is that the lines at HPD will still be as long, as usual.
the average new gun purchaser will only notice that "the fee" went up.
instead of just being in a C&C or state database, we graduated to the majors, we're now in with the FBI, congratulations. when i buy my next gun (notice, i didn't say "if"), i'll probably have the same trepidation, same nervousness as my first time purchase, standing at the counter at HPD to register. and we can't really take it out on the good-guy HPD officers who work the window, they're actually pretty good. not their fault. it's the people we voted into office.
this is all part of the "cost" of living in Hawaii, what we put up with, in order to live in paradise. our fellow citizens foist these burdens upon us because they don't like the way we think. and they're probably in the minority, but they vote. we put up with the traffic, idiot legislators, corrupt politicians, having to pay higher shipping cost for our gun parts, the 4% excise tax on everything, Servco monopoly on toyotas, no drag strip, big frickin centipedes, long lines at HPD, sucky parking, not having AR-15 pistols, 10-round pistol mags, and now Willie Espero's Rap-Back.
but, sadly, as Reload Hawaii VLOG points out, this really penalizes the military, those who rotate through here. all of us have seen when a newly-arrived military member is down at HPD, duly complying with state law, registering his dozen firearms, respectful of hawaii law. and then, when they rotate back to the real world, "state-side" (e.g. Arizona, Texas, other gun-friendly states), they're still in the FBI data base, thanks to Hawaii. spirit of Aloha goes with them!
of course, Willie Espero is gonna say he's doing the other states a favor. yeah, right.
this is how Hawaii legislators (Ige, Espero) thank those who've served, those who fight to preserve our way of life, our rights, etc. might as well take a sharp stick and poke them in the eye, why don't you.
ok, i think i've said my peace.
As for the Military, once they join they are in an FBI data base. If they hold any type of secret or higher clearance, they are in the FBI AND NSA data base where they will remain for the rest of their lives, maybe longer. Such is the times in which we live, Big Brother is watching (only with better eyesight). :wacko:
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Just sent this to the NRA-ILA via https://www.nraila.org/contact-nra-ila/
Please let them know how you feel. :grrr:
If it gets the same response as we get from applying for CCW here in Hawaii, we can all save a lot of money on them "Membership dues". :wave:
I know I will. :closed:
Dear NRA-ILA
On June 23, 2016, Governor Ige of Hawaii was the first in the nation to sign a bill to turn over all of Hawaii's gun owners into a federal database.
On Monday December 5, 2016 Rap Back goes into effect.
There are already several standing laws regarding a National database of firearms owners, so why are you not/have not been jumping on this and nipping it in the bud ?
Do you think other states will not use this as a precedent to enact similar gun control laws in their states ?
I am DEEPLY concerned that our NRA-ILA has done nothing to help the firearms owners of Hawaii to combat this atrocity violating our 2nd amendment rights.
(My original concern was the lack of NRA-ILA assistance in the Baker case)
Your twitter June 24 of this year "Breaking: exercising constitutional rights in #Hawaii now gets you entered into a federal watchlist, er, database" was too little of what I expected from the bastion of our 2nd Amendment rights.
The Firearms community of Hawaii supports the NRA because the
NRA supports privacy rights for gun owners.
According to the NRA, NRA's first purpose and objective is:
"To protect and defend the Constitution of the United States, especially with reference to the inalienable right of the individual American citizen guaranteed by such Constitution to acquire, possess, collect, exhibit, transport, carry, transfer ownership of, and enjoy the right to use arms."
We here in Hawaii are waiting for you to show us that commitment.
Respectfully submitted,
RXOXCXKXYX
Done! :thumbsup: :geekdanc:
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Any lawsuit ready on Monday?
Once its implemented it would violate FOPA .
Last i heard, Rick and Alan were willing to take it on but wanted at least $15k in funds from gun owners(i dont have that kind of cash on hand right now) So its either donations to geth them involoved or if aa group we want to get together and help do the work im willing to file it Pro Se but i would need help with some of the work and the cost to file would be $400 or $500.
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Last i heard, Rick and Alan were willing to take it on but wanted at least $15k in funds from gun owners(i dont have that kind of cash on hand right now) So its either donations to geth them involoved or if aa group we want to get together and help do the work im willing to file it Pro Se but i would need help with some of the work and the cost to file would be $400 or $500.
What does the NRA collect annually from Hawaii resident members? They could send some of that back to attorneys fighting Hawaii cases. Notice I said "could". Actually, I guess after you subtract the million dollar ($984,000) annual salary for LaPierre, the $829,000 for Chris Cox, and the $2,870,000 [NOT a typo!] for treasurer Wilson Phillips... oh, never mind...
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Done! :thumbsup: :geekdanc:
That's one. :thumbsup:
C'mon guys, take a minute to see if we can get the NRA-ILA to help.
Let them know that there are more than Libby Dems here in the islands. :grrr:
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With rap back there is no need for a waiting period or need for renewal
Once you're in the system, you're in the system
Is this happening ?
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I have reached out to InfoWars for assistance in getting national coverage and received a response. Some basic info and contacts with the HRA have been forwarded.
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How about nominating all drivers in Hawaii to Rap Back?
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/28820026/freeway-lanes-reopen-following-fatal-h-1-motorcycle-crash-live-traffic-updates-on-kgmb-and-hawaiinewsnowcom (http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/28820026/freeway-lanes-reopen-following-fatal-h-1-motorcycle-crash-live-traffic-updates-on-kgmb-and-hawaiinewsnowcom)
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I dropped an email to the NRA-ILA. Requested the courtesyof a reply, none yet.
Have been a member for many years.
Asked if they were going to step up and help us out.
Mentioned that if not many years of dues and contributions may have been poorly spent.
That said, I still support the NRA for all the stuff they have accomplished at the Federal level, but perhaps my contributions may be more
selective.
Aloha
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I just e-mailed NRA-ILA also asking for help in fighting this law. Basically asking them to give assistance to the HRA and also to use the NRA's influence with the new Fed DOJ to have them stop their database from containing names and information of law abiding gunowners.
I will e-mail DJT when he's in office and soon to be AG Sessions to use Fed influence to block this state law.
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I spoke to Rick Holcomb and Alan beck today, I'm going to shoot them an e-mail with all the background I have done over the last few months and hopefully they will see the merit and work with me on the $$$
That being said if we can raise the $15k we need they will take it on no matter what
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Sorry dude, the Institute for Legislative Action (ILA) is the "lobbying" arm of the National Rifle Association.
Egad, I made a mistake. It's the NRA Civil Rights Legal Defense Fund. These things get so confusing. http://nradefensefund.org/. Would be good to get some lobbying support from them too anyways. Every little it helps.
They are also on the Combined Federal Campaign (CFC), so federal workers can donate to them easily. I forgot about this and I've done the CFC thing to them before.
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Posted at HPD as they closed the door.
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I spoke to Rick Holcomb and Alan beck today, I'm going to shoot them an e-mail with all the background I have done over the last few months and hopefully they will see the merit and work with me on the $$$
That being said if we can raise the $15k we need they will take it on no matter what
Also mention that there is a mandatory fee of $40-$56 to excercise a Constitutional Right.
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Another thing we could try is to write to Donald Trump and see if he can have the FBI stop participation in the rapback firearm owners registration for Hawaii. Problems I foresee is I heard the FBI is an independent agency from the president. Anyone know? Also it would take a few months to stop.
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Gun owners are idiots. Ask me why.
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Problems I foresee is I heard the FBI is an independent agency from the president. Anyone know? Also it would take a few months to stop.
You just need to "accidentally/coincidentally" meet the incoming head of the Justice Department (Sessions) while his and your planes are waiting on the tarmack and discuss the grandkids.
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I'm down to donate.
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This all could have been avoided if people were proactive, vs reactive.
Plenty here have done much to attempt to prevent this.
Many many more stayed in the ainokea mode.
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I can speculate on why it was done like this....
1. they did not want to have 10,000 people down there trying to get their permits in to beat the implementation and
2. (most importantly) they did not want the law implemented BEFORE THE ELECTION, because they knew it would DOOM the MASTERMIND of this garbage WILL ESPERO and the complicit leader of this illegal law DAVID IGE!
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You just need to "accidentally/coincidentally" meet the incoming head of the Justice Department (Sessions) while his and your planes are waiting on the tarmack and discuss the grandkids.
I was thinking have everyone write letters to Trump or the FBI director or a progun US Congressman that we know will act and stop the FBI. It seems the FBI director has a small chance in helping since he did that Hillary email thing before the election.
Also need suggestions on how to get military service members involved to help us.
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This all could have been avoided if people were proactive, vs reactive.
Plenty here have done much to attempt to prevent this.
Many many more stayed in the ainokea mode.
whatchu talkin' 'bout Heavies?
I just went back and looked through the testimony before the committees in February and March of this year. Each time between three (3) and five (5) people in the entire state of Hawaii bothered to take the time to send an email to the legislature voicing their opposition to this legislation.
Taking the highly likely very low estimate of gun owning households (how many people might be hesitant to tell a stranger on the phone or in person that they have firearms in the home?) in Hawaii at 9.7%, with 403,240 households, that would be a minimum of 39,114 gun owners in Hawaii (and of course there may well be more than one gun owner in a household). (And if the estimates of the number of guns in Hawaii is anywhere near accurate at well over a million, that means that each household averages owning twenty-six (26) firearms! So you can see the likely very low underestimate of households owning firearms... not that there's anything wrong with owning a few dozen firearms! ;)). So taking the high amount of testimony (5) opposing the RAPBACK bill, and the likely very low estimate of gun owners at 39,114, that means that all of .00013 of gun owners voiced their opposition to the bill. Are you really claiming that just because 39,109 out of 39,114 gun owwenrs failed to utter a peep that that indicates an "ainokea" attitude? I can think of a few other words for it...
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The $15000 to file a suit is the minimum. This case won't be resolved in Hawaii and will need to be appealed on the federal side which will cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. We need a plan for the future commitment before we get started.
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The $15000 to file a suit is the minimum. This case won't be resolved in Hawaii and will need to be appealed on the federal side which will cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. We need a plan for the future commitment before we get started.
If $15k is enough to get this started, we would only need 358 people to give their $42 to this cause, and forego donating it to state to enroll in this the illegal legislation.
That, my friends, is totally do able, IMHO
I expect that can be raised by the end of the week if someone takes this on.
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If $15k is enough to get this started, we would only need 358 people to give their $42 to this cause, and forego donating it to state to enroll in this the illegal legislation.
That, my friends, is totally do able, IMHO
I expect that can be raised by the end of the week if someone takes this on.
Conversely, you could appeal to the top ten paid NRA employees to donate o.19% (less than one fifth of one percent) of their 2013 annual salaries ($7,700,000) and cover it that way. Good luck.
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whatchu talkin' 'bout Heavies?
I just went back and looked through the testimony before the committees in February and March of this year. Each time between three (3) and five (5) people in the entire state of Hawaii bothered to take the time to send an email to the legislature voicing their opposition to this legislation.
Taking the highly likely very low estimate of gun owning households (how many people might be hesitant to tell a stranger on the phone or in person that they have firearms in the home?) in Hawaii at 9.7%, with 403,240 households, that would be a minimum of 39,114 gun owners in Hawaii (and of course there may well be more than one gun owner in a household). (And if the estimates of the number of guns in Hawaii is anywhere near accurate at well over a million, that means that each household averages owning twenty-six (26) firearms! So you can see the likely very low underestimate of households owning firearms... not that there's anything wrong with owning a few dozen firearms! ;)). So taking the high amount of testimony (5) opposing the RAPBACK bill, and the likely very low estimate of gun owners at 39,114, that means that all of .00013 of gun owners voiced their opposition to the bill. Are you really claiming that just because 39,109 out of 39,114 gun owwenrs failed to utter a peep that that indicates an "ainokea" attitude? I can think of a few other words for it...
My emails were sent April 1, 26 and 27.
Were they even counted (like Hawaii CCW applications) ?
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If $15k is enough to get this started, we would only need 358 people to give their $42 to this cause, and forego donating it to state to enroll in this the illegal legislation.
That, my friends, is totally do able, IMHO
I expect that can be raised by the end of the week if someone takes this on.
Yes $15k is the amount given to me by Rick and Alan. I am sending them a whole bunch of information on Monday to plan out a lawsuit. Thats part of why i was asking if any one could send me copys of the applications from the outer islands as there may be a significant legal challenge to rapback hidden within.
With regards to the Money, the amount needed is actually only $14.5K as i have already put in $500 myself and i know a few other people have said they were willing to contribute to a lawsuit as well.
If anyone would like to contribute to the fight they can do so via paypal to : a_roberts_84@yahoo.co.uk
Via Check or money order, payable to Andrew Namiki Roberts.
Mailed to : Andrew Namiki Roberts P.O BOX 283182 Honolulu, HI 96828
Any money received will go towards the legal fight to stop rapback any additional funds and/or unused funds will go towards other 2nd amendment challenges.
If you have any questions feel fre to PM me, Ask me here or give me a call at 808 726 2424.
For those that are not aware, I successfully filed a lawsuit last year (using the smae lawyers) challenging HPD'S policy's regarding non citizens possessing firearms in the state. MY Lawsuit was successful and was settled by HPD costing them over $22k in legal fees.
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you can apply for a non profit and have the donations tax deductible
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you can apply for a non profit and have the donations tax deductible
If the sole purpose of the organisation is to file lawsuits it can not claim non profit status, Also Non profits cant lobby.
And that ladys and gents is WHY the HRA does not / can not /will not help.
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Can you set up a go fund me or sometging?
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Yes $15k is the amount given to me by Rick and Alan. I am sending them a whole bunch of information on Monday to plan out a lawsuit. Thats part of why i was asking if any one could send me copys of the applications from the outer islands as there may be a significant legal challenge to rapback hidden within.
With regards to the Money, the amount needed is actually only $14.5K as i have already put in $500 myself and i know a few other people have said they were willing to contribute to a lawsuit as well.
If anyone would like to contribute to the fight they can do so via paypal to : a_roberts_84@yahoo.co.uk
Via Check or money order, payable to Andrew Namiki Roberts.
Mailed to : Andrew Namiki Roberts P.O BOX 283182 Honolulu, HI 96828
Any money received will go towards the legal fight to stop rapback any additional funds and/or unused funds will go towards other 2nd amendment challenges.
If you have any questions feel fre to PM me, Ask me here or give me a call at 808 726 2424.
For those that are not aware, I successfully filed a lawsuit last year (using the smae lawyers) challenging HPD'S policy's regarding non citizens possessing firearms in the state. MY Lawsuit was successful and was settled by HPD costing them over $22k in legal fees.
Sounds like Jill Steins Facebook Page . :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Sorry London, I know this is serious but I couldn't help it. :wave:
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Sounds like Jill Steins Facebook Page . :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Sorry London, I know this is serious but I couldn't help it. :wave:
Hey...... but im not going to jack the amount up every time we get close.
I Get what your saying tho. I just want to cover my bases, I dont want to take 15K have some one else file a suit before us or Have the AG decided the laws illegal or have it not cost that much] and be stuck with the money. There is other fights that can be had with those funds.
Im trying to be open and honest about it, Hence my full real name and a phone number. Im also going to try hit up the range tommorow morning so if any one wants to say hi or has questions you can speak to me there. I dont have green hair anymore but will be wearing a bright yellow minion t-shirt.
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My emails were sent April 1, 26 and 27.
Were they even counted (like Hawaii CCW applications) ?
Not as testimony before a committee. Below is the schedule of the hearings and the testimony dates. The only meeting after your April 1 date was a conference committee that did not take testimony. Perhaps you wrote personal emails to individual legislators, but you didn't submit any testimony on those dates. It doesn't really matter anyway, they ignored it whatever it's "official" status. I remember writing in a thread about the results of a testimony count I did on some other bill this last session, and it was something like 106 to 12 for our side, and the bill passed (against us) either unanimously or close to unanimously. The only thing that will change anything here is big/"huge"/"big league" money to 1. litigate lots of lawsuits with top level attorneys, or 2. "Buy" legislative positions by outspending the gun grabbers by many times for many consecutive elections. Another possibility is that the Trump administration manages to pass some measures that would impose serious financial negatives on Hawaii unless they respect our rights to keep and bear arms. The "convert the populous to our view" via various outreach and educational efforts, which I believe won't work, would take at least 30 to 50 years even if such efforts did work... unless, again, some big league money was made consistently available for the effort.
While I believe that it really "makes no difference" if I submit testimony, write and call legislators, and file UIPA official requests for information that the various police departments and Attorney General don't want revealed to the public, I do it anyway, just in the spirit of "we know what you are doing". As they basically ignore my UIPA requests, even after the OIP attorney sends them notice that they must at least respond to the official requests, the only remaining option is to file lawsuits, and I have neither the legal expertise to file pro se, nor the funds to even think about hiring an attorney. Thus they, with their deep pockets, use our tax money to fight any efforts by us to have them reveal publicly how they reach the conclusions and policy decisions they do (such as "Some guy wants to know the statutory justification for us issuing a CCW license for nine days when the statute clearly says "the term of the license shall be one year."). I rather suspect that behind closed doors and among friends they laugh at us. Sort of like "Ah, isn't that cute! They think they can make US reveal how we do things! What a bunch of naive morons! We're the COPS for chrissakes!".
Testimony
SB2954_TESTIMONY_PSM_02-11-16
SB2954_TESTIMONY_PSM_02-11-16_LATE
SB2954_SD1_TESTIMONY_JDL_03-01-16
SB2954_SD1_TESTIMONY_JDL_03-01-16_LATE
SB2954_SD2_TESTIMONY_JUD_03-18-16_
Hearing Notices
Comm Room Date/Time
PSM CR229 2/11/2016 1:15 PM
JDL 016 3/01/2016 9:05 AM
JUD 325 3/18/2016 2:00 PM
CONF 312 4/20/2016 9:00 AM
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=SB&billnumber=2954&year=2016
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i'll bet the gun-grabbers are reading this post, and laughing themselves silly. Willie Espero will probably issue a press release about how successful this bill was in reducing violent crime in Hawaii, being first in the nation, take credit for something that didn't occur, it happens all the time, low-life politicians. actually it might slow things down for a day or two, people have to go back to the bank machine, take another day off from work to stand in line again, but then the line at HPD will probably go back to normal. line will probably be longer since now there's 8 forms to fill out, instead of 4.
law-abiding (prospective) gun owners will think, what's the downside for me? meh.
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whatchu talkin' 'bout Heavies?
I just went back and looked through the testimony before the committees in February and March of this year. Each time between three (3) and five (5) people in the entire state of Hawaii bothered to take the time to send an email to the legislature voicing their opposition to this legislation.
Taking the highly likely very low estimate of gun owning households (how many people might be hesitant to tell a stranger on the phone or in person that they have firearms in the home?) in Hawaii at 9.7%, with 403,240 households, that would be a minimum of 39,114 gun owners in Hawaii (and of course there may well be more than one gun owner in a household). (And if the estimates of the number of guns in Hawaii is anywhere near accurate at well over a million, that means that each household averages owning twenty-six (26) firearms! So you can see the likely very low underestimate of households owning firearms... not that there's anything wrong with owning a few dozen firearms! ;)). So taking the high amount of testimony (5) opposing the RAPBACK bill, and the likely very low estimate of gun owners at 39,114, that means that all of .00013 of gun owners voiced their opposition to the bill. Are you really claiming that just because 39,109 out of 39,114 gun owwenrs failed to utter a peep that that indicates an "ainokea" attitude? I can think of a few other words for it...
We are getting closer to the answer to my comment why gun owners are idiots. By the way I am a gun owner, of many guns.
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We are getting closer to the answer to my comment why gun owners are idiots. By the way I am a gun owner, of many guns.
I assumed that was a rhetorical question.
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Hey...... but im not going to jack the amount up every time we get close.
I Get what your saying tho. I just want to cover my bases, I dont want to take 15K have some one else file a suit before us or Have the AG decided the laws illegal or have it not cost that much] and be stuck with the money. There is other fights that can be had with those funds.
Im trying to be open and honest about it, Hence my full real name and a phone number. Im also going to try hit up the range tommorow morning so if any one wants to say hi or has questions you can speak to me there. I dont have green hair anymore but will be wearing a bright yellow minion t-shirt.
I'm in, although I don't see much to worry about with this Rap thing. Lets see the rest of you macho gun owners step up to the fight. Just like when the Kaiser and Straub medical record debacle blindsided many, you can't be on the sidelines just watching. All I saw was a bunch of childish suggestions, like the one about going down to HPD with a bag of pennies to pay for the fingerprinting fee. Or like the guy laughing at Kaiser and Straub patients that they paid out of pocket to go see an outside doctor and he didn't. It was all about principals.The reason he didn't is because brave individuals went on TV, wrote letters to every politician they could. That was no laughing matter, you know who are. This is a principle thing. A little story for you. I had not voted for the past thirty plus years because I was part of the silent majority. This year I was pissed off and decided that I will vote. Although I voted strictly Republican, it was not because I know them or like them. It was because I no longer (for many years) like the direction our elected leaders are heading my home state of Hawaii. Who would have thought that Trump would win, not many and certainly not me. But look what happened. The silent majority supported him and he won. Now wether we the citizens won anything remains to be seen. The moral of the story is get out and vote. You don't like your legislator? Get out and vote. Lets put these folks in the unemployment line. See you macho gun owners at the range on Sunday and bring your wallets.
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I assumed that was a rhetorical question.
Absolutely.....
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I will not be able to make it to the range tomorrow due to work. That being said
ANY ONE WHO GOES TO HPD AND SIGNS THE RAPBACK AUTHORIZATION FORMS IS DOING SO OF THEIR OWN FREE WILL.
SB2954 DOES NOT AUTHORIZE ENROLLMENT IN RAPBACK OR REQUIRE YOU TO SIGN THE RAPBACK CONSENT WAIVER. ENROLLMENT IS 100% VOLUNTARY
SB2954 AUTHORIZES HPD TO SHARE DATA WITH THE HAWAII CRIMINAL JUSTICE CENTER AND AUTHORIZES THEM TO CHARGE A HIGHER FEE.
You are required to obtain a permit and register your firearm, You are required to pay the fee and submit to the background check.
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I will not be able to make it to the range tomorrow due to work. That being said
ANY ONE WHO GOES TO HPD AND SIGNS THE RAPBACK AUTHORIZATION FORMS IS DOING SO OF THEIR OWN FREE WILL.
SB2954 DOES NOT AUTHORIZE ENROLLMENT IN RAPBACK OR REQUIRE YOU TO SIGN THE RAPBACK CONSENT WAIVER. ENROLLMENT IS 100% VOLUNTARY
SB2954 AUTHORIZES HPD TO SHARE DATA WITH THE HAWAII CRIMINAL JUSTICE CENTER AND AUTHORIZES THEM TO CHARGE A HIGHER FEE.
You are required to obtain a permit and register your firearm, You are required to pay the fee and submit to the background check.
where can I find this section?
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where can I find this section?
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2016/bills/SB2954_HD1_.pdf
Although it allows hpd to share data with criminal justice center for database mangment, it does not give them authorisation to collect data for disemenation to a 3rd party (the FBI)
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Page and Line?
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I am new to gun ownership and this a little confusing and really sucks...I already did my HG permit and will be picking it up next week...first HG for me...
now I guess I'll be registering and getting put in to this system...I tried to read that SB2954 and agree this is against the "Firearm Owners' Protection Act"
It is supposed to be that the government works for the people...not that "we the people" serve the government...ARRRRGH
I'll donate to any legal action against this...
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I will not be able to make it to the range tomorrow due to work. That being said
ANY ONE WHO GOES TO HPD AND SIGNS THE RAPBACK AUTHORIZATION FORMS IS DOING SO OF THEIR OWN FREE WILL.
SB2954 DOES NOT AUTHORIZE ENROLLMENT IN RAPBACK OR REQUIRE YOU TO SIGN THE RAPBACK CONSENT WAIVER. ENROLLMENT IS 100% VOLUNTARY
SB2954 AUTHORIZES HPD TO SHARE DATA WITH THE HAWAII CRIMINAL JUSTICE CENTER AND AUTHORIZES THEM TO CHARGE A HIGHER FEE.
You are required to obtain a permit and register your firearm, You are required to pay the fee and submit to the background check.
Got a pistol on it's way from Buds with OGC doing the transfer. Should I refuse to enroll based upon the above statement (which will probably mean HPD will refuse my permit application). Sheesh ordered the pistol before finding out about this otherwise it would have never been ordered. If I didn't have bad luck, I'd have no luck at all.... going to donate what I can to the cause but being retired limits my amount (sold some stuff to get the pistol when it would have been better served to donate the amount I paid for the gun)..... :wtf:
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Got a pistol on it's way from Buds with OGC doing the transfer. Should I refuse to enroll based upon the above statement (which will probably mean HPD will refuse my permit application). Sheesh ordered the pistol before finding out about this otherwise it would have never been ordered. If I didn't have bad luck, I'd have no luck at all.... going to donate what I can to the cause but being retired limits my amount (sold some stuff to get the pistol when it would have been better served to donate the amount I paid for the gun)..... :wtf:
I'm
Going to be at HPD tommorow morning first thing and hopefully (unlikely tho) explain to them that what they are doing is in violation of state law. Hopefully forcing them to stop at least temporarily. The problem
Is as individuals they don't care as they can't be held accountable for there actions.
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I'm
Going to be at HPD tommorow morning first thing and hopefully (unlikely tho) explain to them that what they are doing is in violation of state law. Hopefully forcing them to stop at least temporarily. The problem
Is as individuals they don't care as they can't be held accountable for there actions.
I'd really like to see the video of that "exchange of information".
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I'd really like to see the video of that "exchange of information".
I gotta agree, even a audio recording of that conversation would be worth the price of admission.
Set your phone to record in your front pocket and go for broke.
London 808, I gotta give you credit. We/I am behind you.Best o'luck.
Keep us in the loop
Aloha
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Can an injunction be filed tomorrow by Wolfwood?
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I'm
Going to be at HPD tommorow morning first thing and hopefully (unlikely tho) explain to them that what they are doing is in violation of state law. Hopefully forcing them to stop at least temporarily. The problem
Is as individuals they don't care as they can't be held accountable for there actions.
Good luck. This just got interesting
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Plans for Tommorow,
Head to HPD to apply for a permit.
Visit the AG's Office to ask for some documents,
Visit the Hawaii Criminal Justice Center to ask for documentation and an explanation of rapback.
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Plans for Tommorow,
Head to HPD to apply for a permit.
Visit the AG's Office to ask for some documents,
Visit the Hawaii Criminal Justice Center to ask for documentation and an explanation of rapback.
I really appreciate your efforts. Thank you. :shaka:
Best wishes and good luck getting straight answers, or even any answers or information from the lying CYA bureaucrats who are our public servants, paid by our tax dollars to protect our "unalienable Rights", including "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" (unless you intend to use your Liberty to defend your Life outside your home with the most efficient tool available).
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I really appreciate your efforts. Thank you. :shaka:
Best wishes and good luck getting straight answers, or even any answers or information from the lying CYA bureaucrats who are our public servants, paid by our tax dollars to protect our "unalienable Rights", including "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" (unless you intend to use your Liberty to defend your Life outside your home with the most efficient tool available).
Thanks for your contribution. I have made a new post in the Legal section to give details on the legal fight as and when they happen (what details i can without tipping my hand, Right now i believe we have a couple of aces)
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=25686.0 (https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=25686.0)
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Also file a class action lawsuit , to recover the $40 fee that many may be forced to pay in these few month.
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I'm
Going to be at HPD tommorow morning first thing and hopefully (unlikely tho) explain to them that what they are doing is in violation of state law. Hopefully forcing them to stop at least temporarily. The problem
Is as individuals they don't care as they can't be held accountable for there actions.
The cops at the window are not gonna care and just following orders from above. U gotta talk to higher ranking hpd if u wanna change anything. But good idea visiting the AG.
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
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The cops at the window are not gonna care and just following orders from above. U gotta talk to higher ranking hpd if u wanna change anything. But good idea visiting the AG.
My experience from Hilo is that 1. the AG won't comment or give any information or opinions on any law matters to citizens (because they don't work for us, the people, don't you know...), and 2. the locals will protect via the "attorney client privilege" claim any information about any matter that they ever involved any attorney in. [insert string of bad words here]
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Also file a class action lawsuit , to recover the $40 fee that many may be forced to pay in these few month.
I dont think we will be able to get around the Fee, The fee for rapback enrollment is only $13. the rest is to cover the additional costs of the background checks.
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The cops at the window are not gonna care and just following orders from above. U gotta talk to higher ranking hpd if u wanna change anything. But good idea visiting the AG.
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
Its not that they dont care, Its they dont want to lose their job, I can almost guarantee that a sergeant will be at the window waiting for me.
The thing about it is, You have to speak to every monkey on the way up the tree to show that there intent to violate the law/my rights and that its not just some guy on the bottom making up rules/laws.
they dont like the fact that I understand the laws better then most and i wont let them get away with making up shit.
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I can almost guarantee that a sergeant will be at the window waiting for me. ..........
........... fact that I understand the laws better then most and i wont let them get away with making up shit.
:love:
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Plans for Tommorow,
Head to HPD to apply for a permit.
Visit the AG's Office to ask for some documents,
Visit the Hawaii Criminal Justice Center to ask for documentation and an explanation of rapback.
I'm going down to HPD tomorrow to help support your effort.
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I'm going down to HPD tomorrow to help support your effort.
Thanks Zippz, See you in the AM, anyone else is welcome to come i will be there first thing (traffic permitting) when the doors open.
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HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA THANKS ZIPPZ !!!!!!@!
iF YOU HAVE ALREADY HAD A PERMIT YOU DONT NEED TO PAY !!!!!!!!
HPD HAS TO EAT THE COST.
"(i) No fee shall be charged for permits, or applications for permits, under this section, except for a single fee chargeable by and payable to the issuing county, for individuals applying for their first permit,
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NO PHOTOS OR FINGER PRINTS EITHER
Every person registering a firearm under this subsection shall be fingerprinted and photographed by the police department of the county of registration; provided that this requirement shall be waived where fingerprints and photographs are already on file with the police department.
(Only if registering, For permits still can)
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NO PHOTOS OR FINGER PRINTS EITHER
very person registering a firearm under this subsection shall be fingerprinted and photographed by the police department of the county of registration; provided that this requirement shall be waived where fingerprints and photographs are already on file with the police department.
I guess they keep losing them, cause they been doing it every time lately.
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I guess they keep losing them, cause they been doing it every time lately.
Well im sorry im going to follow the law, and anyone that wants to get in my way dont know whats coming.
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Well im sorry im going to follow the law, and anyone that wants to get in my way dont know whats coming.
:thumbsup:
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ANY ONE WHO GOES TO HPD AND SIGNS THE RAPBACK AUTHORIZATION FORMS IS DOING SO OF THEIR OWN FREE WILL.
SB2954 DOES NOT AUTHORIZE ENROLLMENT IN RAPBACK OR REQUIRE YOU TO SIGN THE RAPBACK CONSENT WAIVER. ENROLLMENT IS 100% VOLUNTARY
I found a problem to this in 846-2.7.
(d) The applicant, employee, or volunteer subject to a criminal history record check shall provide to the requesting agency or qualified entity:
(1) Consent to obtain the applicant's, employee's, or volunteer's fingerprints, conduct the criminal history record check, and participate in the rap back program;
...
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2016/bills/SB2954_HD1_.htm
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol14_Ch0701-0853/HRS0846/HRS_0846-0002_0007.htm
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London808, I read the law and I think I understand it more...
1. The law should have stated you have to sign the FBI privacy waiver, like how 134-2 states a medical waiver must be signed to get a permit. So therefore they have no power to make you sign it. If they deny the permit, then they are denying your 2a rights for something you don't have to do. Same with registrations. Nevermind per post above and below.
2. They cannot charge the fee for a permit to acquire if you had prior permits, due to they can only charge fees for first permits.
3. They could charge a fee for first and subsequent registrations since there is no "first" wording.
4. They cannot do Rapback on License to Carry as rapback only affects permits to acquire and firearms registration.
5. Not sure why LE need to do rapback for personal weapons. They should already be in rapback for their job. To add to this, everyone currently in rapback shouldn't have to pay the rapback fee or fill out the additional forms.
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I found a problem to this in 846-2.7.
(d) The applicant, employee, or volunteer subject to a criminal history record check shall provide to the requesting agency or qualified entity:
(1) Consent to obtain the applicant's, employee's, or volunteer's fingerprints, conduct the criminal history record check, and participate in the rap back program;
...
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2016/bills/SB2954_HD1_.htm
Zippz is right, Looks like i had an old copy of the law, (friken Hawaii) so part of the HJDC's background check is enrollment
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I bet half the people in this forum is already in rapback for their jobs, and thus shouldn't have to pay. But forcing people to be in rapback because of their right to arms is illegal, and in my interpretation, also illegal to be put into a 'gun registration' federally, or otherwise, per the firearms owners protection act. IANAL though.
"No such rule or regulation prescribed [by the Attorney General] after the date of the enactment of the Firearms Owners Protection Act may require that records required to be maintained under this chapter or any portion of the contents of such records, be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof, nor that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions or disposition be established. Nothing in this section expands or restricts the Secretary's authority to inquire into the disposition of any firearm in the course of a criminal investigation."
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/926 (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/926)
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Well, I was going to take off a couple of hours this morning and go down there to renew my rifle permit. But my boss called in sick so now I have to wait.
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OK, so the GOFUND ME got approved.
https://www.gofundme.com/stop-rapback-in-the-state-of-hawaii (https://www.gofundme.com/stop-rapback-in-the-state-of-hawaii)
Paypal is the better option because there is no fees, but i know a lot of people like the click click options of gofund me and it seems more legit.
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I bet half the people in this forum is already in rapback for their jobs, and thus shouldn't have to pay. But forcing people to be in rapback because of their right to arms is illegal, and in my interpretation, also illegal to be put into a 'gun registration' federally, or otherwise, per the firearms owners protection act. IANAL though.
That's me. However, I was wondering about the notification process. I was reading about RapBack on the FBI website and other articles. I'm not sure either way, but I'm wondering if individual agencies have to request notification. As in say I am in the system for past employment, that agency/employer requests notification from the FBI as to any activity. Kind of like a credit report/check. So just because I am in the system for agency/employer #1, does that information get sent to any future agency/employer? Again, I am not sure either way, so hence the question.
I guess I just don't know how the notification system works. Reading all the employment types that are required for RapBack just in Hawaii alone, that's a lot of people for ALL agencies to get notified. The reason this came up is that where I work, we have to renew our creds every 10 years. I recall that them mentioning that "if something happens, like you get arrested, it's better if you notify them ASAP and as opposed to waiting until it gets flagged in your next review".
Doesn't answer the question about the fees, but I was just wondering about applicability of just being in the system and notification.
I've tried to the statues and part about FOPA myself and I concur. At least the way I read it. I should discuss with one of by buddies, who is both a gun owner and former prosecutor. Then again, his interpretation of the use of deadly force laws has been, uh, different than mine. I'll just leave it at that.
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That's me. However, I was wondering about the notification process. I was reading about RapBack on the FBI website and other articles. I'm not sure either way, but I'm wondering if individual agencies have to request notification. As in say I am in the system for past employment, that agency/employer requests notification from the FBI as to any activity. Kind of like a credit report/check. So just because I am in the system for agency/employer #1, does that information get sent to any future agency/employer? Again, I am not sure either way, so hence the question.
I guess I just don't know how the notification system works. Reading all the employment types that are required for RapBack just in Hawaii alone, that's a lot of people for ALL agencies to get notified. The reason this came up is that where I work, we have to renew our creds every 10 years. I recall that them mentioning that "if something happens, like you get arrested, it's better if you notify them ASAP and as opposed to waiting until it gets flagged in your next review".
Doesn't answer the question about the fees, but I was just wondering about applicability of just being in the system and notification.
I've tried to the statues and part about FOPA myself and I concur. At least the way I read it. I should discuss with one of by buddies, who is both a gun owner and former prosecutor. Then again, his interpretation of the use of deadly force laws has been, uh, different than mine. I'll just leave it at that.
Shoot I go thru almost the same 10 year check as part of my security clearance. Wonder if I'm already in the system and if so do I gotta pay again to get be put in again.
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Shoot I go thru almost the same 10 year check as part of my security clearance. Wonder if I'm already in the system and if so do I gotta pay again to get be put in again.
I haven't confirmed that I am in, but from my work requirements, to having applied for clearance for previous jobs, etc., I'd be willing to bet that I'm already in RapBack. Sounds like we're in the same boat.
I'm not worried about being in the RapBack system really. Just that the Hawaii law makers successful attempt at making this a law, hopefully just for now.
London - I'll be contributing for sure as well as spreading the word. :thumbsup:
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5. Not sure why LE need to do rapback for personal weapons. They should already be in rapback for their job. To add to this, everyone currently in rapback shouldn't have to pay the rapback fee or fill out the additional forms.
London808 helped me with this question. There are different categories for rapback. So you could have an entry for your employment, and another entry as a firearms owner. Also your employment entry could expire in rapback. This is why LE and those already in rapback would still have to pay and signup for this.
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So it's like being charged twice for the same "service"?
Hmmm... kind of like billing a client twice for the same work performed?
In the private sector this would be grounds for a criminal and civil lawsuit. I think it goes under the term "Fraud". :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr:
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Good Job guys, I know a lot of you have donated and some of them were rather sizeable. We are currently at 1750 (once you take out the fees) a little over 10% of the way there in 24 hours.
The go fund me has Raised 1000 in 5 hours !!!!!.
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315 more people, donate your $42 to this cause, don't waste it on the tyrannical state!
They have enough of your hard earned cash already!
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315 more people, donate your $42 to this cause, don't waste it on the tyrannical state!
They have enough of your hard earned cash already!
...
Damn straight
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Got this email this afternoon:
https://www.americas1stfreedom.org/articles/2016/6/14/hiding-in-hawaii-rap-back-program-revealed-to-be-gun-registration-scheme/
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I'm sharing the gofundme page on my Facebook page. I'll be making my donation as soon as payday comes.
Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
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I submitted my long gun application a couple of weeks ago and am supposed to pick up this week. Am I to expect anything when I go pick it up? Will I be expected to apply & pay for rapback? Or only when I go back to register any new long guns? Thanks.
Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk
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I submitted my long gun application a couple of weeks ago and am supposed to pick up this week. Am I to expect anything when I go pick it up? Will I be expected to apply & pay for rapback? Or only when I go back to register any new long guns?
I would expect B.S. only when you submit something for registration. Then again, the request for permit was when the PD had their opportunity to fingerprint the first time.
I just wanted my business done before the official start date. Nothing I can do about being in the system.
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Hers another link with a faceook etc... link
Leave your comment regarding where or how is NRA-ILA helping us.
https://www.americas1stfreedom.org/articles/2016/6/14/hiding-in-hawaii-rap-back-program-revealed-to-be-gun-registration-scheme/
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Out of curiosity how many of you will not buy firearms anymore due to this bs. Maybe this should be a poll. This will def affect our local firearm businesses
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I might put my next firearm purchase on hold for a while. I'll still support local business buying ammunition and accessories.
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I might put my next firearm purchase on hold for a while. I'll still support local business buying ammunition and accessories.
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Ladies and Gents,
I would like to make a point about this situation that perhaps no one has brought up yet.
Basically we are in a lose-lose situation.
If you go ahead and make your purchase today then you just bent over and took one in the butt...they win.
If you stopped or delayed a purchase because of this law, then the antigun libs have won a huge victory by stopping a legitimate transaction.
They win again.
CHECKMATE! WE LOST!
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...
Ladies and Gents,
I would like to make a point about this situation that perhaps no one has brought up yet.
Basically we are in a lose-lose situation.
If you go ahead and make your purchase today then you just bent over and took one in the butt...they win.
If you stopped or delayed a purchase because of this law, then the antigun libs have won a huge victory by stopping a legitimate transaction.
They win again.
CHECKMATE! WE LOST!
I think there is at least one more aspect to look at: "unintended consequences". I think we all know what that is, so I'm not going to write the words.
Is that a "win" or a "loss" for the "antigun libs"?
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...
Ladies and Gents,
I would like to make a point about this situation that perhaps no one has brought up yet.
Basically we are in a lose-lose situation.
If you go ahead and make your purchase today then you just bent over and took one in the butt...they win.
If you stopped or delayed a purchase because of this law, then the antigun libs have won a huge victory by stopping a legitimate transaction.
They win again.
CHECKMATE! WE LOST!
We have not lost by far, I have $3002 in the war chest that says otherwise, We have collected 20% of what we need to get this started in the first 24 hours.
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I think there is at least one more aspect to look at: "unintended consequences". I think we all know what that is, so I'm not going to write the words.
Is that a "win" or a "loss" for the "antigun libs"?
I am thinking the same thing.
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Out of curiosity how many of you will not buy firearms anymore due to this bs. Maybe this should be a poll. This will def affect our local firearm businesses
I picked up a few over the summer/fall that I probably was going to hold off until much later. However, that was mostly due to the election. Yes, RapBack is on my mind, but I wasn't seriously planning on picking up anything for a while after the buying spree that I just went on. That and there are other things that I need to pickup that got pushed down the list due to pushing the gun buys sooner.
Overall, I see a hit in local firearm sales. That said, I can see many who 1) aren't even aware of RapBack and 2) are aware but don't care and will continue to buy. Personally, I don't like it and will help in London's or other's efforts to fight. That said, if it came down to it, the current situation wouldn't prevent me from buying.
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Well look what I got this morning from the NRA. How come this canned response doesn't surprise me? Getting ready to tell them to F off, put my patron membership card in the mail and send it to Wayne and tell them to kiss my ass. We are on our own...
Thank you for contacting the NRA-ILA regarding the current state of gun control in Hawaii. The NRA-ILA is aware of the current state of affairs in Hawaii and by no means have given up in your state. The NRA fights day in and day out in order to protect your 2nd Amendment rights, but there are steps you can take to help as well. It is important to contact your state representatives and senators and voice your opinion to them. The change in Hawaii may come, but it will likely be a long and hard fight with many small legislative, political and legal victories.
BULLSHIT!
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Well look what I got this morning from the NRA. How come this canned response doesn't surprise me? Getting ready to tell them to F off, put my patron membership card in the mail and send it to Wayne and tell them to kiss my ass. We are on our own...
Thank you for contacting the NRA-ILA regarding the current state of gun control in Hawaii. The NRA-ILA is aware of the current state of affairs in Hawaii and by no means have given up in your state. The NRA fights day in and day out in order to protect your 2nd Amendment rights, but there are steps you can take to help as well. It is important to contact your state representatives and senators and voice your opinion to them. The change in Hawaii may come, but it will likely be a long and hard fight with many small legislative, political and legal victories.
BULLSHIT!
...
What stupid shortsighted response.
Hawaii is the hole in the dike. Don't they get it?
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...
What stupid shortsighted response.
Hawaii is the hole in the dike. Don't they get it?
Yup...wasn't about to let it stop there. called the ILA and spoke with them. Told this guy "Eric" that we were pissed off and could stand to lose a number of members, including myself, if they don't get off their collective butts. Alos told him talking to the legisaltors is like trying to talk the smell off a pile of dog crap since we've done that numerous times both at the city, state and fed level. Asked him "did you ever bother to look at what color this state"? SILENCE! then asked him "did the NRA ever bother to see what color out entire house is, the only republican was ousted during the last election"? At least he admitted "no he didn't". Asked him by knowing the color of our state, who the reps and senators are and their voting record on 2A issues, what makes him think they'll listen? They'll just tell us in a nice form letter that they send to everyone to "piss off". I then told himthat the NRA better get their lawyers out here and help us out. If the NRA doesn't then maybe the NRA needs to be sued for a "breach of promise" to it's members and sued by it's members, after all that's one of the big selling membership selling points!? Eric asked me to wait and put me on hold for about 10 minutes (guessing he needed to talk to someone). He came back and said an alert was sent out to the HRA about what they are planning to do and that they will be taking legal action in the "near" future. Eric said that the NRA hopes the new administration will nullify the law since it is violation of federal law or it will be done thru the federal courts (after new appointments to the 9th circuit) but either way they are acting on it, supposedly. what I'm going to suggest is that all of us here call the dickens out of the NRA and keep bugging them, likewise the HRA. We need to get these guys off their collective asses, including us in the rank and file. Just don't talk, act, donate. Heck I'm sure you can pass up that plate lunch for a couple of days (might be healthy), bring lunch in from home and donate what you saved to the fund me initiative, every little bit helps. If not then people need to keep their traps shut. we dont need to talk, we need to yell and yell loudly. Here is the number to the NRA: 1 (800) 672 3888 option 4. Have your membership number ready. If not, no biggie they'll still talk to you. give em hell! :wtf: :thumbsup:
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...
Ladies and Gents,
I would like to make a point about this situation that perhaps no one has brought up yet.
Basically we are in a lose-lose situation.
If you go ahead and make your purchase today then you just bent over and took one in the butt...they win.
If you stopped or delayed a purchase because of this law, then the antigun libs have won a huge victory by stopping a legitimate transaction.
They win again.
CHECKMATE! WE LOST!
It's might be a short term loss for us, IF we give up without a fight and let them implement without active and full resistance. I am well sure many active members in this community already have 'enough' and are planned enough to get through this dry spell. Might I suggest using funds to FIGHT instead of buying 'wants' for the time being. That would be a more worthy investment in the long run anyway. I certainly feel this is the right thing to do and have made my initial investment and plan on contributing more as funds become available.
Well look what I got this morning from the NRA. How come this canned response doesn't surprise me? Getting ready to tell them to F off, put my patron membership card in the mail and send it to Wayne and tell them to kiss my ass. We are on our own...
Thank you for contacting the NRA-ILA regarding the current state of gun control in Hawaii. The NRA-ILA is aware of the current state of affairs in Hawaii and by no means have given up in your state. The NRA fights day in and day out in order to protect your 2nd Amendment rights, but there are steps you can take to help as well. It is important to contact your state representatives and senators and voice your opinion to them. The change in Hawaii may come, but it will likely be a long and hard fight with many small legislative, political and legal victories.
BULLSHIT!
I can see why you feel this way, However, looking at the big picture, the NRA is a organization that works on a national level. At the moment this is a state problem. When and if this gets to a federal level, they may give us help. The NRA has done this job very well for many years, and with our support and help many many antigun federal laws have been fought, progun elected officials won, and progun legislation pushed, at the federal level.
For now this is a state issue, and we need to attempt to fix it at this level.
I myself am very happy with the job the NRA is doing, and will continue to support them.
Local level is were we need to come together, and fast, fast , fast.
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...
What stupid shortsighted response.
Hawaii is the hole in the dike. Don't they get it?
Oh, they got it. If you sent them $25 or $35 or more, they got it.
The most recent IRS Form 990 (2013) reveals that ten key executives received $7.7 million dollars in salaries in 2013:
Wilson H. Phillips, Jr. Treasurer $2,869,611
Wayne LePierre CEO and Executive $ 984,182
Chris W. Cox Executive Director ILA $ 828,656
Tyler Schropp Executive Director, Advancement $ 553,784
Edward J. Land, Jr. Secretary $ 462,914
Robert K. Weaver Executive Director, General Ops $ 452,656
Robert Marcario Managing Director $ 420,288
David Lehman Deputy Executive Director, ILA $ 409,803
Michael Marcellin Managing Director $ 370,154
James Baker Director, ILA Federal $ 336,108
These are the people that tried to derail Heller. I'm just sayin'...
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regarding lose-lose situation.
what is the goal of the anti-gun lib-tards? easy answer: stop gun sales in Hawaii.
if gun sales continue, business as usual, then they've lost. i haven't seen a post about how long the lines are at HPD the last couple of days. what, nobody in line at all? it can't be that all Hawaii gun owners are that well informed. we are ignorant people, how else did this pass with only a handful of people showing up to testify against?
if we make a stand on principle, and say, i'm not going to buy any more guns until this goes away (i.e. until hell freezes over?), then they've won.
the fact that Hawaii idiot legistors display blatant disregard of FOPA (now THAT's banana-republic ignorance), maybe that's a separate issue, maybe not. I think NRA missed the issue, this isn't about gun registration, it's about disregard of FOPA.
personally, i think California, Massachussetts, New York, are in much worse shape than us. yep, this sure ain't Texas.
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It's might be a short term loss for us, IF we give up without a fight and let them implement without active and full resistance. I am well sure many active members in this community already have 'enough' and are planned enough to get through this dry spell. Might I suggest using funds to FIGHT instead of buying 'wants' for the time being. That would be a more worthy investment in the long run anyway. I certainly feel this is the right thing to do and have made my initial investment and plan on contributing more as funds become available.
I can see why you feel this way, However, looking at the big picture, the NRA is a organization that works on a national level. At the moment this is a state problem. When and if this gets to a federal level, they may give us help. The NRA has done this job very well for many years, and with our support and help many many antigun federal laws have been fought, progun elected officials won, and progun legislation pushed, at the federal level.
For now this is a state issue, and we need to attempt to fix it at this level.
I myself am very happy with the job the NRA is doing, and will continue to support them.
Local level is were we need to come together, and fast, fast , fast.
Pretty much my thinking and plan in this case. Will continue to be active, contribute, etc as best as I can.
regarding lose-lose situation.
what is the goal of the anti-gun lib-tards? easy answer: stop gun sales in Hawaii.
if gun sales continue, business as usual, then they've lost. i haven't seen a post about how long the lines are at HPD the last couple of days. what, nobody in line at all? it can't be that all Hawaii gun owners are that well informed. we are ignorant people, how else did this pass with only a handful of people showing up to testify against?
if we make a stand on principle, and say, i'm not going to buy any more guns until this goes away (i.e. until hell freezes over?), then they've won.
the fact that Hawaii idiot legistors display blatant disregard of FOPA (now THAT's banana-republic ignorance), maybe that's a separate issue, maybe not. I think NRA missed the issue, this isn't about gun registration, it's about disregard of FOPA.
personally, i think California, Massachussetts, New York, are in much worse shape than us. yep, this sure ain't Texas.
I think for many gun owners, they aren't as informed on gun legislation that are in the works. What you see here is definitely a minority, but hopefully with the ability to affect change. Also many times you'll find that many gun owners adopt the "as long as it doesn't affect me" attitude, that they don't care.
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regarding lose-lose situation.
what is the goal of the anti-gun lib-tards? easy answer: stop gun sales in Hawaii.
if gun sales continue, business as usual, then they've lost. i haven't seen a post about how long the lines are at HPD the last couple of days. what, nobody in line at all? it can't be that all Hawaii gun owners are that well informed. we are ignorant people, how else did this pass with only a handful of people showing up to testify against?
if we make a stand on principle, and say, i'm not going to buy any more guns until this goes away (i.e. until hell freezes over?), then they've won.
the fact that Hawaii idiot legistors display blatant disregard of FOPA (now THAT's banana-republic ignorance), maybe that's a separate issue, maybe not. I think NRA missed the issue, this isn't about gun registration, it's about disregard of FOPA.
personally, i think California, Massachussetts, New York, are in much worse shape than us. yep, this sure ain't Texas.
Went to pick up my LG permit this morning. No line, pretty empty.
One person in front registering a LG. Gladly paid $42. I think they take credit card now. Couple others waiting around registering long guns. Two people seemed local & one looked military. All didn't seemed fazed by Rap back.
Was told that when I come to register LG, I'll need to apply & pay for Rap back.
Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk
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We have not lost by far, I have $3002 in the war chest that says otherwise, We have collected 20% of what we need to get this started in the first 24 hours.
...
Ok, I mean to say we lost this battle.
But the war is still going, thus my contribution for legal fees.
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Question: When is the Rap Back $42 fee charged? is it charged when someone (1) applies for a handgun permit to acquire, (2) picks up the handgun permit to acquire, or (3) at the time of registration?
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Question: When is the Rap Back $42 fee charged? is it charged when someone (1) applies for a handgun permit to acquire, (2) picks up the handgun permit to acquire, or (3) at the time of registration?
1 and 3
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1 and 3
Yup 1 & 3...I picked up my handgun permit and they let me know when I bring my firearm back for registration, there will be a $42 fee for RapBack...
This morning was fast, but going back to register was slow...
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Where in the law does it say you have to pay for registration?
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1 and 3
the reason why i ask is because it is possible for a first-time handgun buyer to merely apply for a permit to acquire, but decide later not to get the handgun (and therefore no registration).
similarly, it is totally possible to have a long gun permit to acquire, but never own a long gun.
I feel like it would be extremely unfair to the aforementioned classes of individuals since, in both cases, neither of them are gun owners, but the process requires them to pay the $42 fee. Additionally, these people will be entered into system for which nobody receives any benefit for.
I can understand the argument that enrollment of firearm owners into the Rap Back Program will conceivably benefit society. However, i don't think there is any benefit to society for the enrollment of non-owners.
and lastly, if all registrants are required to pay the $42 fee regardless of whether they eventually become gun owners or not, then this seems a lot more like a tax.
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Where in the law does it say you have to pay for registration?
Every person registering a firearm under this subsection shall be fingerprinted and photographed by the police department of the county of registration; provided that this requirement shall be waived where fingerprints and photographs are already on file with the police department. The police department shall perform an inquiry on the [person by using the National Instant Criminal Background Check System] applicant using the Criminal Justice Information System and the National Law Enforcement Telecommunications System, including the Immigration and Naturalization Service query therein, National Crime Information Center, National Instant Criminal Background Check System, and pursuant to section 846-2.7 before any determination to register a firearm is made.
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Every person registering a firearm under this subsection shall be fingerprinted and photographed by the police department of the county of registration; provided that this requirement shall be waived where fingerprints and photographs are already on file with the police department. The police department shall perform an inquiry on the [person by using the National Instant Criminal Background Check System] applicant using the Criminal Justice Information System and the National Law Enforcement Telecommunications System, including the Immigration and Naturalization Service query therein, National Crime Information Center, National Instant Criminal Background Check System, and pursuant to section 846-2.7 before any determination to register a firearm is made.
Like I said earlier, HPD is gonna get rolls of quarters, dimes, nickels and pennies.... :wtf:
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Where in the law does it say you have to pay for registration?
Every person registering a firearm under this subsection shall be fingerprinted and photographed by the police department of the county of registration; provided that this requirement shall be waived where fingerprints and photographs are already on file with the police department. The police department shall perform an inquiry on the [person by using the National Instant Criminal Background Check System] applicant using the Criminal Justice Information System and the National Law Enforcement Telecommunications System, including the Immigration and Naturalization Service query therein, National Crime Information Center, National Instant Criminal Background Check System, and pursuant to section 846-2.7 before any determination to register a firearm is made.
"(i) No fee shall be charged for permits, or applications for permits, under this section, except for a single fee chargeable by and payable to the issuing county, for individuals applying for their first permit, in an amount equal to the fee [actually] charged by the [Federal Bureau of Investigation to the issuing police department for a fingerprint check in connection with that application or permit.] Hawaii criminal justice data center pursuant to section 846-2.7."
IF you already have a permit, why do you have to pay?
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Every person registering a firearm under this subsection shall be fingerprinted and photographed by the police department of the county of registration; provided that this requirement shall be waived where fingerprints and photographs are already on file with the police department. The police department shall perform an inquiry on the [person by using the National Instant Criminal Background Check System] applicant using the Criminal Justice Information System and the National Law Enforcement Telecommunications System, including the Immigration and Naturalization Service query therein, National Crime Information Center, National Instant Criminal Background Check System, and pursuant to section 846-2.7 before any determination to register a firearm is made.
Which is again bullshit, I will explain latter when I'm Mona real computer
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"(i) No fee shall be charged for permits, or applications for permits, under this section, except for a single fee chargeable by and payable to the issuing county, for individuals applying for their first permit, in an amount equal to the fee [actually] charged by the [Federal Bureau of Investigation to the issuing police department for a fingerprint check in connection with that application or permit.] Hawaii criminal justice data center pursuant to section 846-2.7."
IF you already have a permit, why do you have to pay?
Perhaps they are interpreting the language "for individuals applying for their first permit" to mean "for individuals applying for their first permit after the instigation of the RapBack enrollment requirement"?
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Perhaps they are interpreting the language "for individuals applying for their first permit" to mean "for individuals applying for their first permit after the instigation of the RapBack enrollment requirement"?
It should say that, otherwise it says what is says.
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"(i) No fee shall be charged for permits, or applications for permits, under this section, except for a single fee chargeable by and payable to the issuing county, for individuals applying for their first permit, in an amount equal to the fee [actually] charged by the [Federal Bureau of Investigation to the issuing police department for a fingerprint check in connection with that application or permit.] Hawaii criminal justice data center pursuant to section 846-2.7."
IF you already have a permit, why do you have to pay?
if you're wondering why you have to pay, it is because of the "under this section" clause. the "reasonable fee" language is located in HRS §846-2.7
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if you're wondering why you have to pay, it is because of the "under this section" clause. the "reasonable fee" language is located in HRS §846-2.7
If you already have a permit or have had one you shouldent pay the fee, but would have to pay at Registration, if HPD were smart they would approve my permit application without the fee or waiver signed and get me at registration instead.
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"(i) No fee shall be charged for permits, or applications for permits, under this section, except for a single fee chargeable by and payable to the issuing county, for individuals applying for their first permit, in an amount equal to the fee [actually] charged by the [Federal Bureau of Investigation to the issuing police department for a fingerprint check in connection with that application or permit.] Hawaii criminal justice data center pursuant to section 846-2.7."
IF you already have a permit, why do you have to pay?
Exactly! Thank You! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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if you're wondering why you have to pay, it is because of the "under this section" clause. the "reasonable fee" language is located in HRS §846-2.7
If you already paid the fee prior to this fiasco, then why pay again for fingerprint and photos (photos are digital anyways, no real cost involved)......
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If you already paid the fee prior to this fiasco, then why pay again for fingerprint and photos (photos are digital anyways, no real cost involved)......
The cost is for new finger prints and photo, the tab back enrollment fee and the admin cost
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The cost is for new finger prints and photo, the tab back enrollment fee and the admin cost
Yea, I know but it's still bullshit..... Ige should be paying for this.... curious to see what HPD does when I give them rolls of coins...... :rofl: :crazy:
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I think that a lot of you are attacking the issues with the wrong approach. I think it would be smarter to first ask how they came up with the $42 fee.
HRS §846-2.7 is partially an enabling statute; it basically authorizes the HCJDC to set a "reasonable fee." this usually means that there is some kind of Hawaii Administrative Rule that is tied to the HCJDC's power to set fees. any HAR has to go through the normal legal process prior to it becoming effective.
in case you're not following me, what i'm saying is that the $42 fee needs to appear somewhere in order for them to officially charge us that amount. prior to this whole rap back thing, the fingerprinting fee was directly tied to the amount actually charged by the FBI. now, there needs to be some kind of corresponding HAR that would administratively set the "reasonable" amount.
take a look at these: http://ag.hawaii.gov/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Fees-for-Hawaii-Criminal-Justice-Data-Center-Services.pdf
http://ag.hawaii.gov/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Amendments-to-Criminal-History-Record-Check-Fees.pdf
the foregoing links are to the HAR chapters that set the HCJDC fees. i suspect that the $42 fee is ultra vires, but i could be wrong since i've only done a brief amount of research. it is also possible that the $42 fee is a combination of fees.
what's even more interesting is the fact that the amount paid at the HPD counter seems to have no clear relationship to the amounts owed by the HCJDC to the FBI.
also, in case you're wondering where i got the links from, all of the HAR is posted on the LtG's website: http://ltgov.hawaii.gov/the-office/administrative-rules/
specifically, you're looking for Title 5, which relates to the Attorney General.
Yea, I know but it's still bullshit..... Ige should be paying for this.... curious to see what HPD does when I give them rolls of coins...... :rofl: :crazy:
i'd be pretty pissed at you if i were standing in line behind you and you decided to give them coins. Please don't make the line any longer than it needs to be. Although you think that you're making life difficult for the officers behind the window, just realize that they're probably salary workers and have no quota/commission to incentivize expeditious service. this means that you're only wasting the time of the other people in line.
if you're still insistent on doing this, please pick a time that there is no one else in line behind you.
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I think that a lot of you are attacking the issues with the wrong approach. I think it would be smarter to first ask how they came up with the $42 fee.
HRS §846-2.7 is partially an enabling statute; it basically authorizes the HCJDC to set a "reasonable fee." this usually means that there is some kind of Hawaii Administrative Rule that is tied to the HCJDC's power to set fees. any HAR has to go through the normal legal process prior to it becoming effective.
in case you're not following me, what i'm saying is that the $42 fee needs to appear somewhere in order for them to officially charge us that amount. prior to this whole rap back thing, the fingerprinting fee was directly tied to the amount actually charged by the FBI. now, there needs to be some kind of corresponding HAR that would administratively set the "reasonable" amount.
take a look at these: http://ag.hawaii.gov/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Fees-for-Hawaii-Criminal-Justice-Data-Center-Services.pdf
http://ag.hawaii.gov/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Amendments-to-Criminal-History-Record-Check-Fees.pdf
the foregoing links are to the HAR chapters that set the HCJDC fees. i suspect that the $42 fee is ultra vires, but i could be wrong since i've only done a brief amount of research. it is also possible that the $42 fee is a combination of fees.
what's even more interesting is the fact that the amount paid at the HPD counter seems to have no clear relationship to the amounts owed by the HCJDC to the FBI.
also, in case you're wondering where i got the links from, all of the HAR is posted on the LtG's website: http://ltgov.hawaii.gov/the-office/administrative-rules/
specifically, you're looking for Title 5, which relates to the Attorney General.
i'd be pretty pissed at you if i were standing in line behind you and you decided to give them coins. Please don't make the line any longer than it needs to be. Although you think that you're making life difficult for the officers behind the window, just realize that they're probably salary workers and have no quota/commission to incentivize expeditious service. this means that you're only wasting the time of the other people in line.
if you're still insistent on doing this, please pick a time that there is no one else in line behind you.
Thank you for the analysis. Where does the " for individuals applying for their first permit " come into play. I know that the fee is probably a combination of certain fees charged by the HCJDC for background checks and research, however that quoted line has nothing to do with that fee.
Also, didn't see the reference that says that you need to pay that fee for registrations, since you already have a permit in hand, your back ground has already been checked, thus you are legal to own and posses a firearm. I can see this might be a case for out of state firearms registrations, but I am speaking example persons that have a complete and valid rifle, or pistol, permit from the city already in hand.
Just trying to understand.
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if you're wondering why you have to pay, it is because of the "under this section" clause. the "reasonable fee" language is located in HRS §846-2.7
Who will try and charge this fee using their handy pCard?? >:D
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Thank you for the analysis. Where does the " for individuals applying for their first permit " come into play. I know that the fee is probably a combination of certain fees charged by the HCJDC for background checks and research, however that quoted line has nothing to do with that fee.
Also, didn't see the reference that says that you need to pay that fee for registrations, since you already have a permit in hand, your back ground has already been checked, thus you are legal to own and posses a firearm. I can see this might be a case for out of state firearms registrations, but I am speaking example persons that have a complete and valid rifle, or pistol, permit from the city already in hand.
Just trying to understand.
the HCJDC fee is also under subsection (e) of HRS 134-3
Here's a link to the section, but note that, as of the time of this post, they haven't updated the website to reflect the change: http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol03_Ch0121-0200D/HRS0134/HRS_0134-0003.htm
subsection (e) of HRS §134-3 was amended as follows:
subsection (e) to read:
"(e) No fee shall be charged for the registration of a firearm under this section, except for a fee chargeable by and payable to the registering county for persons registering a firearm under subsection (a), in an amount equal to the fee [actually] charged by the [Federal Bureau of Investigation to the registering police department for a fingerprint check in connection with the registration.] Hawaii criminal justice data center pursuant to section 846-2.7. In the case of a joint registration, the fee provided for in this section may be charged to each person."
so going back to my earlier point, this seems more like a tax than anything else. and the worst part about it is, the language could be interpreted to require the payment of the $42 fee for registration of EVERY gun, in which case it would definitely be a tax.
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I think that a lot of you are attacking the issues with the wrong approach. I think it would be smarter to first ask how they came up with the $42 fee.
HRS §846-2.7 is partially an enabling statute; it basically authorizes the HCJDC to set a "reasonable fee." this usually means that there is some kind of Hawaii Administrative Rule that is tied to the HCJDC's power to set fees. any HAR has to go through the normal legal process prior to it becoming effective.
in case you're not following me, what i'm saying is that the $42 fee needs to appear somewhere in order for them to officially charge us that amount. prior to this whole rap back thing, the fingerprinting fee was directly tied to the amount actually charged by the FBI. now, there needs to be some kind of corresponding HAR that would administratively set the "reasonable" amount.
take a look at these: http://ag.hawaii.gov/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Fees-for-Hawaii-Criminal-Justice-Data-Center-Services.pdf
http://ag.hawaii.gov/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Amendments-to-Criminal-History-Record-Check-Fees.pdf
the foregoing links are to the HAR chapters that set the HCJDC fees. i suspect that the $42 fee is ultra vires, but i could be wrong since i've only done a brief amount of research. it is also possible that the $42 fee is a combination of fees.
what's even more interesting is the fact that the amount paid at the HPD counter seems to have no clear relationship to the amounts owed by the HCJDC to the FBI.
also, in case you're wondering where i got the links from, all of the HAR is posted on the LtG's website: http://ltgov.hawaii.gov/the-office/administrative-rules/
specifically, you're looking for Title 5, which relates to the Attorney General.
i'd be pretty pissed at you if i were standing in line behind you and you decided to give them coins. Please don't make the line any longer than it needs to be. Although you think that you're making life difficult for the officers behind the window, just realize that they're probably salary workers and have no quota/commission to incentivize expeditious service. this means that you're only wasting the time of the other people in line.
if you're still insistent on doing this, please pick a time that there is no one else in line behind you.
http://ag.hawaii.gov/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Amendments-to-Criminal-History-Record-Check-Fees.pdf (http://ag.hawaii.gov/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Amendments-to-Criminal-History-Record-Check-Fees.pdf)
combination of fees, + the $13 charged by the FBI for rap back enrollment. Also remember that there is a state rapback system that you are also enrolled into.
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Al thats being said. THERE IS NO FEE FOR A PERMIT if you already have one, The law is pretty dam clear.
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http://ag.hawaii.gov/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Amendments-to-Criminal-History-Record-Check-Fees.pdf (http://ag.hawaii.gov/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Amendments-to-Criminal-History-Record-Check-Fees.pdf)
combination of fees, + the $13 charged by the FBI for rap back enrollment. Also remember that there is a state rapback system that you are also enrolled into.
i don't think that Hawaii applicants/registrants are required to pay the $13 FBI fee. i think the $13 FBI fee is swallowed by the HCJDC. registrants/applicants were formerly required to pay the FBI fingerprinting fee, but that language was removed from the statute.
let me know if you come across anything in the HAR or HRS that requires registrant/applicants to pay the FBI fee.
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i don't think that Hawaii applicants/registrants are required to pay the $13 FBI fee. i think the $13 FBI fee is swallowed by the HCJDC. registrants/applicants were formerly required to pay the FBI fingerprinting fee, but that language was removed from the statute.
let me know if you come across anything in the HAR or HRS that requires registrant/applicants to pay the FBI fee.
The $13 is not for fingerpringing, that's the fee charged by the FBI for enrollment into rapback,
The HRD now says the fee is set by the HCJDC, and the law works them to charge a fee that is resonabel, so cost + processing costs (employee time, equipment maintainer ect....) $42 is actually lower then the the expected rate which was over $60
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The $13 is not for fingerpringing, that's the fee charged by the FBI for enrollment into rapback,
The HRD now says the fee is set by the HCJDC, and the law works them to charge a fee that is resonabel, so cost + processing costs (employee time, equipment maintainer ect....) $42 is actually lower then the the expected rate which was over $60
yes, i understand that the fee for the FBI fingerprinting is a different fee from the FBI fee for enrollment into rap back. the statute previously said that the only fee required was a one-time fee equal to the amount actually charged by the FBI for fingerprinting (which i think was like $14 or $16). that language has since been removed.
under the revised HRS section, the fee owed is equal to the amount charged by the HCJDC for the HCJDC's processing of requests. the problem is that I'm not really sure what the $42 fee is comprised of. I could guess at what things might be summed together to result in a $42 fee, but i don't have any more information than that.
I think that it would be ultra vires for the HCJDC to charge fees in excess of the fees listed in the HAR that i had previously provided a link for. like i said earlier, HRS §846-2.7 is partially an enabling statute, but the HCJDC fees must still be set and noticed ("notice" in this case means legal notice) through HAR. in other words, the HCJDC can charge those fees, or a combination of those fees listed in the HAR, but they can't start charging "processing costs" on a whim, and without first amending the HAR to reflect the same.
this is probably my fault for not saying this right off the bat, but the point that i've been trying to make this whole time is that this new law is pretty much a tax, and there doesn't seem to be any exceptions to it.
it has been famously said that "the power to tax is the power to destroy." i can't think of a whole lot of other rights recognized under the Bill of Rights that are regularly taxed. as an example, can you imagine the public uproar if the government required permitting and registration fees (or taxes) for exercise of the first amendment rights (e.g. freedom of speech, or the freedom of association)? generally i can understand the rationale behind requiring registration, but taxation probably crosses the threshold into the realm of being unconstitutional.
edit: i should probably add that this fee/tax has many other implications. for example, think of the fees that are associated with the judiciary system (e.g. court fees). when indigent parties want to access the court system, the Constitution requires that they be provided access. so if an indigent person is below a certain threshold, that person's court fees will be waived. in some sense this acts to increase the accessibility for all individuals regardless of their financial situation.
as a parallel back to our topic at hand, there doesn't seem to be exceptions to the HCJDC fees. because of this, i would argue that the State has effectively made firearm ownership only available to the "rich" and, therefore, indigent persons have a clear financial barrier. given that SCOTUS has recognized the Second Amendment as an individual right, and subsequently incorporated it though the Fourteenth, any kind of state taxation would probably be a clear infringement of that right.
of course you could argue that $42 isn't that much money at all, but money is valued differently to different people. obviously "value" has some correlation to socio-economic status, but there is also some correlation to an individual's percentage of Pake blood.
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The person I know in the firearms business yesterday informed me that he hadn't heard anything about RapBack in Hilo yet, so I decided to call just a few minutes ago:
[I'm not making this up!]
Me: Have you begun the RapBack enrollment yet?
Hawaii County Police Department Firearms Registration (Hilo)(HCFR): No.
Me: Do you know when you are going to start it?
HCFR: No. They haven't told us yet. When we're told, they will put something out about it.
Me: Do you know how much it is going to cost?
HCFR: No. We don't know anything about it. I know they started it on Oahu, but we haven't heard anything.
Me: Um, so who is it that is going to tell you about it?
HCFR: I really don't know.
Me: (laughing) So you don't know anything about it and you don't know who is going to tell you about it or when?
HCFR: (laughing) That's right! We won't know anything until someone tells us.
* * * * *
I really wish I'd recorded that. It was really funny.
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The person I know in the firearms business yesterday informed me that he hadn't heard anything about RapBack in Hilo yet, so I decided to call just a few minutes ago:
[I'm not making this up!]
Me: Have you begun the RapBack enrollment yet?
Hawaii County Police Department Firearms Registration (Hilo)(HCFR): No.
Me: Do you know when you are going to start it?
HCFR: No. They haven't told us yet. When we're told, they will put something out about it.
Me: Do you know how much it is going to cost?
HCFR: No. We don't know anything about it. I know they started it on Oahu, but we haven't heard anything.
Me: Um, so who is it that is going to tell you about it?
HCFR: I really don't know.
Me: (laughing) So you don't know anything about it and you don't know who is going to tell you about it or when?
HCFR: (laughing) That's right! We won't know anything until someone tells us.
* * * * *
I really wish I'd recorded that. It was really funny.
Actually, I think it is kinda sad. Pathetic. And typical for Hawaii. I am surprised the he even knew what Rap Back was/is.
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Actually, I think it is kinda sad. Pathetic. And typical for Hawaii. I am surprised the he even knew what Rap Back was/is.
Hey Dave, hope the recovery is on or ahead of schedule.
I don't want to identify anyone, but the person I spoke to on the phone was female (I believe the entire staff there is female).
Yeah, it's somewhere between pathetic and ludicrous, but not any more so than the rest of the situations regarding Second Amendment rights in this banana republic of a state. Four CCW licenses in 17 years? How can they even pretend (with a straight face) the right to bear arms is lawfully recognized and allowed here? And the two licenses that we have any information about were both issued unlawfully for terms less than one year, one to a judge, and the other for nine days (and they may have also been a government employee). The anomaly here is when the government does something without lying, incompetence or corruption. Usually I can feel my blood pressure rise and the mild sensation of imminent cerebral explosion, but this time (you had to be there) it was just plain funny... .and the person I was speaking to also found it humorous (in it's absurdity).
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Hey Dave, hope the recovery is on or ahead of schedule.
I don't want to identify anyone, but the person I spoke to on the phone was female (I believe the entire staff there is female).
Yeah, it's somewhere between pathetic and ludicrous, but not any more so than the rest of the situations regarding Second Amendment rights in this banana republic of a state. Four CCW licenses in 17 years? How can they even pretend (with a straight face) the right to bear arms is lawfully recognized and allowed here? And the two licenses that we have any information about were both issued unlawfully for terms less than one year, one to a judge, and the other for nine days (and they may have also been a government employee). The anomaly here is when the government does something without lying, incompetence or corruption. Usually I can feel my blood pressure rise and the mild sensation of imminent cerebral explosion, but this time (you had to be there) it was just plain funny... .and the person I was speaking to also found it humorous (in it's absurdity).
Thanks for well wishes. I really appreciate it.
When I first arrived on the Big Island I brought in all of my guns to be registered to the Hilo office. It is pretty much all women in there. The only male was the one officer that inspected all my firearms to make sure they were unloaded and he brought them in to the woman who wrote up all the registration slips.
What you wrote here is truly funny as it made me laugh. And I find it harder every day to laugh at the inadequacy of our government. But after I laughed I also sighed and then wrote what I posted earlier.
Unfortunately, I decided to renew my rifle permit this week.
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so has anyone here "experienced" the rap back? fees charged and different procedure? i haven't heard of anyone's experience with this.
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so has anyone here "experienced" the rap back? fees charged and different procedure? i haven't heard of anyone's experience with this.
My GF is experienced, I have yet to bend over.
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When I spoke with someone at the Hilo station (when I registered my lower a few weeks ago), they basically said the same thing that Inspector posted above. They didn't really know much about what was going on for Hilo. They only know what they're told from above them, which at that point was nothing other than it'll be "soon" but no definite timeline. Honestly, it was a nice chat. Very friendly folks here. They just don't get the details for this until it happens lol.
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so has anyone here "experienced" the rap back? fees charged and different procedure? i haven't heard of anyone's experience with this.
I have, I went to HPD, stood in line, a luitent (I believe) came put to tell people they need to pay $42. I told him he was wrong and that it was only for first time applicants. Then I had the major (top guy in the firearms decision) come out to me and ask what I'm planing on doing, I told him I'm not paying the fee, he told me I won't be getting A permit, he left came back about 4-5 minutes latter he then implied they could arrest me if I video tape in the room with the window, told Him I was audio recording but if I wanted to video I could as it's an area open to the public.
Got to the window was given the forms and asked for $42, I told them I was not paying, they told me to fill out the forms, I asked who issued the rapback forms and if they were approved by the AG, was told no they come from the FBI, I told them I can't sign them then, was told to fill out the other forms. Turnt them in was was told to come back in 2 weeks.
Just so you guys are aware that's the 3rd time HPD has threatened or implied they will/may/can arrest me for them violating my rights.
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Just so you guys are aware that's the 3rd time HPD has threatened to arrest me for them violating my rights.
:o You mean that's NOT how it's supposed to work? Next thing you know you'll be babbling some nonsense about "government of the people, by the people, and for the people". Threat of arrest is standard procedure for rabble-rousing (or perhaps, more currently, "deplorable-rousing") troublemakers. Keep up the good work! :shaka:
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Heard from some today that it's a one time check and if your clear your not in rap back, anyone ha w clarification on this?
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Heard from some today that it's a one time check and if your clear your not in rap back, anyone ha w clarification on this?
Who said that ??? That's not how it works.... oh boy
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Heard from some today that it's a one time check and if your clear your not in rap back, anyone ha w clarification on this?
:wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:
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Heard from some today that it's a one time check and if your clear your not in rap back, anyone ha w clarification on this?
You were lied to,
The BG check adds you into rapback.
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I have, I went to HPD, stood in line, a luitent (I believe) came put to tell people they need to pay $42. I told him he was wrong and that it was only for first time applicants. Then I had the major (top guy in the firearms decision) come out to me and ask what I'm planing on doing, I told him I'm not paying the fee, he told me I won't be getting A permit, he left came back about 4-5 minutes latter he then threatened to arrest me if I video tape in the room with the window, told Him I was audio recording but if I wanted to video I could as it's an area open to the public.
Got to the window was given the forms and asked for $42, I told them I was not paying, they told me to fill out the forms, I asked who issued the rapback forms and if they were approved by the AG, was told no they come from the FBI, I told them I can't sign them then, was told to fill out the other forms. Turnt them in was was told to come back in 2 weeks.
Just so you guys are aware that's the 3rd time HPD has threatened to arrest me for them violating my rights.
Stay safe out there. We will have a new Fed DOJ and a unique admin coming, anything is possible even in HI. Most never gave Trump a chance to win.
Who knows maybe states and cities officials start getting charged for federal civil rights violations can reverse many things. My version of hope and change.
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I think that a lot of you are attacking the issues with the wrong approach. I think it would be smarter to first ask how they came up with the $42 fee.
HRS §846-2.7 is partially an enabling statute; it basically authorizes the HCJDC to set a "reasonable fee." this usually means that there is some kind of Hawaii Administrative Rule that is tied to the HCJDC's power to set fees. any HAR has to go through the normal legal process prior to it becoming effective.
in case you're not following me, what i'm saying is that the $42 fee needs to appear somewhere in order for them to officially charge us that amount. prior to this whole rap back thing, the fingerprinting fee was directly tied to the amount actually charged by the FBI. now, there needs to be some kind of corresponding HAR that would administratively set the "reasonable" amount.
take a look at these: http://ag.hawaii.gov/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Fees-for-Hawaii-Criminal-Justice-Data-Center-Services.pdf
http://ag.hawaii.gov/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Amendments-to-Criminal-History-Record-Check-Fees.pdf
the foregoing links are to the HAR chapters that set the HCJDC fees. i suspect that the $42 fee is ultra vires, but i could be wrong since i've only done a brief amount of research. it is also possible that the $42 fee is a combination of fees.
what's even more interesting is the fact that the amount paid at the HPD counter seems to have no clear relationship to the amounts owed by the HCJDC to the FBI.
also, in case you're wondering where i got the links from, all of the HAR is posted on the LtG's website: http://ltgov.hawaii.gov/the-office/administrative-rules/
specifically, you're looking for Title 5, which relates to the Attorney General.
i'd be pretty pissed at you if i were standing in line behind you and you decided to give them coins. Please don't make the line any longer than it needs to be. Although you think that you're making life difficult for the officers behind the window, just realize that they're probably salary workers and have no quota/commission to incentivize expeditious service. this means that you're only wasting the time of the other people in line.
if you're still insistent on doing this, please pick a time that there is no one else in line behind you.
Then I guess you or anyone else for that matter, will be pissed off. As for going when no one else is in the room, I'll consult my crystal ball prior to going to HPD. I didn't make the line, our stupid state government and HPD did. Coins are as good as cash. The problem is the dolts behind the counter will have to take off their shoes in order to count the rolls...... :shaka: :sleeping: :wave:
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I have, I went to HPD, stood in line, a luitent (I believe) came put to tell people they need to pay $42. I told him he was wrong and that it was only for first time applicants. Then I had the major (top guy in the firearms decision) come out to me and ask what I'm planing on doing, I told him I'm not paying the fee, he told me I won't be getting A permit, he left came back about 4-5 minutes latter he then threatened to arrest me if I video tape in the room with the window, told Him I was audio recording but if I wanted to video I could as it's an area open to the public.
Got to the window was given the forms and asked for $42, I told them I was not paying, they told me to fill out the forms, I asked who issued the rapback forms and if they were approved by the AG, was told no they come from the FBI, I told them I can't sign them then, was told to fill out the other forms. Turnt them in was was told to come back in 2 weeks.
Just so you guys are aware that's the 3rd time HPD has threatened to arrest me for them violating my rights.
Nice! Hope they won't pull the "either you pay or you won't get your permit" bullshit. Wouldn't put it past them...... :shake:
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Out of curiosity how many of you will not buy firearms anymore due to this bs. Maybe this should be a poll. This will def affect our local firearm businesses
I have what I need, not necessarily what I want. I will hold off on a few wants for awhile because I don't want to be on a "list".
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Seems to me there are two issues here. Being entered into the rap back program and the other being the $42.00. I can see the rap back being a bother to some. But the $42.00 dollars? I'm sure you've spent that plus a lot more on your sport in a single day. Going down with coins? Childish.... If i'm behind you in line and you whip out the fee in coins, I'll be very disappointed. You're punishing the people behind you. Better you give the money to London808. The only thing HPD understands is litigation. By the way, for those of you that think HPD didn't have anything to do with the rap back program think again. The legislators are not smart enough to think up of this on their own. This most likely was suggested to them by HPD. Every day the legislature is in session there are two HPD officers there looking out for HPD's interests, not yours. Now go out a solicit donations, after you donate.
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This most likely was suggested to them by HPD.
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It is.
And Espero was all over himself to "introduce such a historic bill." (His words)
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Then I guess you or anyone else for that matter, will be pissed off. As for going when no one else is in the room, I'll consult my crystal ball prior to going to HPD. I didn't make the line, our stupid state government and HPD did. Coins are as good as cash. The problem is the dolts behind the counter will have to take off their shoes in order to count the rolls...... :shaka: :sleeping: :wave:
Riiiiiiiiight. :wacko:
Kinda like going onto the freeway to stop traffic to get support, eh ?
Do you speed past and almost clip the road worker cuz you're pissed with traffic ?
Don't tip your waitress cuz the price of food is too high ?
Sure, you can be a little snowflake and piss off the guys behind the window so every one behind you pays for your stupidity. :grrr:
Suck it up ButterCup.
Actually HELP our cause instead of whining like a little Libtard. :'(
"Go out a solicit donations, after you donate to our legitimate legal fight.. :thumbsup:
I'm sure anyone you want to piss off will be more angry by losing to us than they will by some silly little childish stunt. :closed:
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Seems to me there are two issues here. Being entered into the rap back program and the other being the $42.00. I can see the rap back being a bother to some. But the $42.00 dollars? I'm sure you've spent that plus a lot more on your sport in a single day. Going down with coins? Childish.... If i'm behind you in line and you whip out the fee in coins, I'll be very disappointed. You're punishing the people behind you. Better you give the money to London808. The only thing HPD understands is litigation. By the way, for those of you that think HPD didn't have anything to do with the rap back program think again. The legislators are not smart enough to think up of this on their own. This most likely was suggested to them by HPD. Every day the legislature is in session there are two HPD officers there looking out for HPD's interests, not yours. Now go out a solicit donations, after you donate.
I don't mind paying $42 for something I use and something that benefits me. Like paying car registration taxes helps to maintain the roads I drive on. Rapback doesn't benefit me and it doesn't seem to benefit society much either so it's a waste of money.
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I don't mind paying $42 for something I use and something that benefits me. Like paying car registration taxes helps to maintain the roads I drive on. Rapback doesn't benefit me and it doesn't seem to benefit society much either so it's a waste of money.
Think of the children!
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I don't mind paying $42 for something I use and something that benefits me. Like paying car registration taxes helps to maintain the roads I drive on. Rapback doesn't benefit me and it doesn't seem to benefit society much either so it's a waste of money.
How about paying a dollar for every word you post on the internet?
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Seems to me there are two issues here. Being entered into the rap back program and the other being the $42.00. I can see the rap back being a bother to some. But the $42.00 dollars? I'm sure you've spent that plus a lot more on your sport in a single day. Going down with coins? Childish.... If i'm behind you in line and you whip out the fee in coins, I'll be very disappointed. You're punishing the people behind you. Better you give the money to London808. The only thing HPD understands is litigation. By the way, for those of you that think HPD didn't have anything to do with the rap back program think again. The legislators are not smart enough to think up of this on their own. This most likely was suggested to them by HPD. Every day the legislature is in session there are two HPD officers there looking out for HPD's interests, not yours. Now go out a solicit donations, after you donate.
The $42 fee is not something i have an issue with, Although i dont think i should have to seek consent to exercise a constitutional right, I can see why a fee is charged to cover the costs of a BG check.
The issue here is not the $ value of the fee but the application of paying it. The law clearly states that the fee for a permit is for the first aplication. HPD is ignoring the law and is instead charging it to every application and registration. If they want us to follow the law they need to as well.
I have to wait untill the 19th of December to see if they are going to deny my permit application based on not paying the $42 fee and/or not singing the repback forms.
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Maj Robinson probably knows his department is screwed and trying to find a way out of the first permit fee dilemma. His office will have to eat the $42 cost for all of the subsequent permit fees until the law is changed or the majority of subsequent permit applicants is eventually cleared out. If there are 10,000 firearm owners applying for a subsequent permit in a year (I dunno the real number) then his office has to eat $420,000 in fees.
HPD is forced to do the rapback on all permits to acquire applicants and hence pay the $42 fee. They can't wait to charge the fee at registration since the person would already be in rapback from their permit application. The rapback law wording implies that they could possibly charge the fee for each firearm registration, however that would not be reasonable since the person is already in rapback and would do nothing to cover the rapback fee for the subsequent permit that was issued.
I hope MAJ Robinson gives London808 an apology and refunds people their money. Or else this looks like a clear cut class action lawsuit that a lawyer can take up on contingency.
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Someone should apply for 2 handgun permits and see if HPD charges the $42 for the 2nd one.
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The $42 fee is not something i have an issue with, Although i dont think i should have to seek consent to exercise a constitutional right, I can see why a fee is charged to cover the costs of a BG check.
The issue here is not the $ value of the fee but the application of paying it. The law clearly states that the fee for a permit is for the first aplication. HPD is ignoring the law and is instead charging it to every application and registration. If they want us to follow the law they need to as well.
I have to wait untill the 19th of December to see if they are going to deny my permit application based on not paying the $42 fee and/or not singing the repback forms.
London, i think we already established that the $42 fee applies when applying for the first permit, and ALSO when the firearm is registered. Take a look at Section 3 of SB2954. http://capitol.hawaii.gov/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=SB&billnumber=2954&year=2016
If you're looking at the PDF <http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2016/bills/SB2954_HD1_.pdf> then Section 3 starts on page 4, Line 13. section 3 amends subsection (e) of HRS §134-3. i'm not quite sure how you're able to argue that the $42 fee doesn't also apply at the time of registration.
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Maj Robinson probably knows his department is screwed and trying to find a way out of the first permit fee dilemma. His office will have to eat the $42 cost for all of the subsequent permit fees until the law is changed or the majority of subsequent permit applicants is eventually cleared out. If there are 10,000 firearm owners applying for a subsequent permit in a year (I dunno the real number) then his office has to eat $420,000 in fees.
HPD is forced to do the rapback on all permits to acquire applicants and hence pay the $42 fee. They can't wait to charge the fee at registration since the person would already be in rapback from their permit application. The rapback law wording implies that they could possibly charge the fee for each firearm registration, however that would not be reasonable since the person is already in rapback and would do nothing to cover the rapback fee for the subsequent permit that was issued.
I hope MAJ Robinson gives London808 an apology and refunds people their money. Or else this looks like a clear cut class action lawsuit that a lawyer can take up on contingency.
I think i would actually file pro se on that one. Its such a clear cut violation of the law. I dont think i would need a lawyer.
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London, i think we already established that the $42 fee applies when applying for the first permit, and ALSO when the firearm is registered. Take a look at Section 3 of SB2954. http://capitol.hawaii.gov/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=SB&billnumber=2954&year=2016
If you're looking at the PDF <http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2016/bills/SB2954_HD1_.pdf> then Section 3 starts on page 4, Line 13. section 3 amends subsection (e) of HRS §134-3. i'm not quite sure how you're able to argue that the $42 fee doesn't also apply at the time of registration.
The $42 fee is to cover the cost of the background check and being entered into rapback.
Since I would have already passed the background check at the time of application for a permit. (and if you singn the form be entered into rapback) What is the fee going to cover ? HPD does not get the fee they pay it to the HCJDC. Once you have the permit and use it to buy a gun, Unless you are in violation of HRS 134-7 they can not/have no legal basis to not register /seize your firearm.
Infact the whole premise of doing a BG check to register a firearm is uncontional. They are running a BG check to see if you can own something you already own.
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London, i think we already established that the $42 fee applies when applying for the first permit, and ALSO when the firearm is registered. Take a look at Section 3 of SB2954. http://capitol.hawaii.gov/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=SB&billnumber=2954&year=2016
If you're looking at the PDF <http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2016/bills/SB2954_HD1_.pdf> then Section 3 starts on page 4, Line 13. section 3 amends subsection (e) of HRS §134-3. i'm not quite sure how you're able to argue that the $42 fee doesn't also apply at the time of registration.
Maybe I missed it but which language would cover the registrations?
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Maybe I missed it but which language would cover the registrations?
Here's the excerpt from SB2954:
SECTION 3. Section 134-3, Hawaii Revised Statutes, is amended as follows:
1. By amending subsection (a) to read:
"(a) Every person arriving in the State who brings or by any other manner causes to be brought into the State a firearm of any description, whether usable or unusable, serviceable or unserviceable, modern or antique, shall register the firearm within five days after arrival of the person or of the firearm, whichever arrives later, with the chief of police of the county of the person's place of business or, if there is no place of business, the person's residence or, if there is neither a place of business nor residence, the person's place of sojourn. A nonresident alien may bring firearms not otherwise prohibited by law into the State for a continuous period not to exceed ninety days; provided that the person meets the registration requirement of this section and the person possesses:
(1) A valid Hawaii hunting license procured under chapter 183D, part II, or a commercial or private shooting preserve permit issued pursuant to section 183D-34;
(2) A written document indicating the person has been invited to the State to shoot on private land; or
(3) Written notification from a firing range or target shooting business indicating that the person will actually engage in target shooting.
The nonresident alien shall be limited to a nontransferable registration of not more than ten firearms for the purpose of the above activities.
Every person registering a firearm under this subsection shall be fingerprinted and photographed by the police department of the county of registration; provided that this requirement shall be waived where fingerprints and photographs are already on file with the police department. The police department shall perform an inquiry on the person by using the [National Instant Criminal Background Check System] International Justice and Public Safety Network, including the United States Immigration and Customs Enforcement query, the National Crime Information Center, and the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, pursuant to section 846-2.7 before any determination to register a firearm is made."
2. By amending subsection (b) to read:
"(b) Every person who acquires a firearm pursuant to section 134-2 shall register the firearm in the manner prescribed by this section within five days of acquisition. The registration shall be on forms prescribed by the attorney general, which shall be uniform throughout the State, and shall include the following information: name of the manufacturer and importer; model; type of action; caliber or gauge; serial number; and source from which receipt was obtained, including the name and address of the prior registrant. If the firearm has no serial number, the permit number shall be entered in the space provided for the serial number, and the permit number shall be engraved upon the receiver portion of the firearm prior to registration. All registration data that would identify the individual registering the firearm by name or address shall be confidential and shall not be disclosed to anyone, except as may be required [for]:
(1) For processing the registration [or as may be required by];
(2) For database management by the Hawaii criminal justice data center;
(3) By a law enforcement agency for the lawful performance of its duties; or [as may be required by]
(4) By order of a court."
3. By amending subsection (e) to read:
"(e) No fee shall be charged for the registration of a firearm under this section, except for a fee chargeable by and payable to the registering county for persons registering a firearm under subsection (a), in an amount equal to the fee [actually] charged by the [Federal Bureau of Investigation to the registering police department for a fingerprint check in connection with the registration.] Hawaii criminal justice data center pursuant to section 846-2.7. In the case of a joint registration, the fee provided for in this section may be charged to each person."
NOTE: i got a little lazy with the ramseyer, but you get the point. i provided references and links to the law in the post you quoted.
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Maybe I missed it but which language would cover the registrations?
Every person registering a firearm under this subsection shall be fingerprinted and photographed by the police department of the county of registration; provided that this requirement shall be waived where fingerprints and photographs are already on file with the police department. The police department shall perform an inquiry on the applicant using the Criminal Justice Information System and the National Law Enforcement Telecommunications System, including the Immigration and Naturalization Service query therein, National Crime Information Center, National Instant Criminal Background Check System, and pursuant to section 846-2.7
No fee shall be charged for the registration of a firearm under this section, except for a fee chargeable by and payable to the registering county for persons registering a firearm under subsection (a), in an amount equal to the fee charged by the Hawaii criminal justice data center pursuant to section 846-2.7.
Hmm, But again my argument stands, There should be no background check on a firearm that i already own.
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What color stickers you want ?
Im having a friend cut some virginal stickers for me to help fund raising, Those that have donated already will get some. Im thinking Black, White and red ?
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I just applied for a long gun & a pistol permit on monday and only had to pay $42.
I think the reason they listed "registering firearms" on the "who must enroll" list was to get the people who had received/applied for permits prior to monday, Dec 5th and add them also to the rapback program. Once they use the permit to acquire and register a firearm.
Once you pay the "first time fee" of $42 to have yourself enrolled into rap back, your good from then on and that is what I understood coming from the guys behind the window.
I will clarify when I go to register my pistol in 2 weeks and see if I have to $42 to register it.
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Renewed my long gun permit today. In and out in 45 minutes. Had 2 people in front of me. One just picking up permit and the other registering 9 firearms. I expected to be there for 2 hours. Except for the newbies just moving here the mood from the regulars was not pretty. A lot of resentment and grumbling was heard out in the outer room while I was in the room with the window.
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Here's the excerpt from SB2954:
SECTION 3. Section 134-3, Hawaii Revised Statutes, is amended as follows:
1. By amending subsection (a) to read:
"(a) Every person arriving in the State who brings or by any other manner causes to be brought into the State a firearm of any description, whether usable or unusable, serviceable or unserviceable, modern or antique, shall register the firearm within five days after arrival of the person or of the firearm, whichever arrives later, with the chief of police of the county of the person's place of business or, if there is no place of business, the person's residence or, if there is neither a place of business nor residence, the person's place of sojourn. A nonresident alien may bring firearms not otherwise prohibited by law into the State for a continuous period not to exceed ninety days; provided that the person meets the registration requirement of this section and the person possesses:
(1) A valid Hawaii hunting license procured under chapter 183D, part II, or a commercial or private shooting preserve permit issued pursuant to section 183D-34;
(2) A written document indicating the person has been invited to the State to shoot on private land; or
(3) Written notification from a firing range or target shooting business indicating that the person will actually engage in target shooting.
The nonresident alien shall be limited to a nontransferable registration of not more than ten firearms for the purpose of the above activities.
Every person registering a firearm under this subsection shall be fingerprinted and photographed by the police department of the county of registration; provided that this requirement shall be waived where fingerprints and photographs are already on file with the police department. The police department shall perform an inquiry on the person by using the [National Instant Criminal Background Check System] International Justice and Public Safety Network, including the United States Immigration and Customs Enforcement query, the National Crime Information Center, and the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, pursuant to section 846-2.7 before any determination to register a firearm is made."
2. By amending subsection (b) to read:
"(b) Every person who acquires a firearm pursuant to section 134-2 shall register the firearm in the manner prescribed by this section within five days of acquisition. The registration shall be on forms prescribed by the attorney general, which shall be uniform throughout the State, and shall include the following information: name of the manufacturer and importer; model; type of action; caliber or gauge; serial number; and source from which receipt was obtained, including the name and address of the prior registrant. If the firearm has no serial number, the permit number shall be entered in the space provided for the serial number, and the permit number shall be engraved upon the receiver portion of the firearm prior to registration. All registration data that would identify the individual registering the firearm by name or address shall be confidential and shall not be disclosed to anyone, except as may be required [for]:
(1) For processing the registration [or as may be required by];
(2) For database management by the Hawaii criminal justice data center;
(3) By a law enforcement agency for the lawful performance of its duties; or [as may be required by]
(4) By order of a court."
3. By amending subsection (e) to read:
"(e) No fee shall be charged for the registration of a firearm under this section, except for a fee chargeable by and payable to the registering county for persons registering a firearm under subsection (a), in an amount equal to the fee [actually] charged by the [Federal Bureau of Investigation to the registering police department for a fingerprint check in connection with the registration.] Hawaii criminal justice data center pursuant to section 846-2.7. In the case of a joint registration, the fee provided for in this section may be charged to each person."
NOTE: i got a little lazy with the ramseyer, but you get the point. i provided references and links to the law in the post you quoted.
Just so I am clear about what you are saying.
According to the highlighted areas, you are saying all "registrants" need to pay a fee for RAPBACK background checks and maintenance, per subsection (e)?
However,
I read this as; persons bringing unregistered firearms INTO the state WITHOUT local background checks are the ones being required to pay the "RapBack" fee upon the required registration of the arms per state law. subsection (a)
This is not applicable to those who ALREADY have a valid permit to acquire. The checks are already DONE and the person is legal and cleared by Hawaii's laws to purchase and own a long gun or handgun (done prior) to implementation. There is no authorization here to charge people AFTER THE FACT for a registration of a legally acquired firearm purchased within the state.
I could be wrong... Still trying to understand. maybe you are seeing something different?
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Does anyone have a cheap, meaning $75 or less, piece of crap long gun they can sell me?
(Even a lower receiver would work but I wouldn't want to donate a receiver to HPD if they yank it from me)
So I can go down to register it and tell them I don't have the $42 for Rapback.
I have a valid permit.
Could they actually refuse to register it ?
And could I get a note from them stating as much?
And if they confiscate it get a receipt stating the reason why and citing the applicable HRS that gives them the power to do so?
What do you think London?
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Does anyone have a cheap, meaning $75 or less, piece of crap long gun they can sell me?
(Even a lower receiver would work)
So I can go down to register it and tell them I don't have the $42 for Rapback.
I have a valid permit.
Could they actually refuse to register it ?
And could I get a note from them stating as much?
And if they confiscate it get a receipt stating the reason why and citing the applicable HRS that gives them the power to do so?
What do you think London?
I would hold off for now, I will shoot you a PM
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Does anyone have a cheap, meaning $75 or less, piece of crap long gun they can sell me?
So I can go down to register it and tell them I don't have the $42 for Rapback.
I have a valid permit.
Could they actually refuse to register it ?
And could I get a note from them stating as much?
And if they confiscate it get a receipt stating the reason why and citing the applicable HRS that gives them the power to do so?
What do you think London?
That's what I'm saying. What grounds would they have to confiscate it? They could "revoke" your permit via §134-13, but refusing to pay and sign into rapback, when the law clearly doesn't require it for registration, constitute "good cause" WTF is "good cause" anyway? ???
§134-13 Revocation of permits. All permits and licenses provided for under this part may be revoked, for good cause, by the issuing authority or by the judge of any court. [L 1988, c 275, pt of §2]
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Roger that London.
And Heavies, I wouldn't be refusing to pay, I just won't have the cash or my credit card.
So I couldn't pay.
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This is the letter of complaint i am filling,
On December 5th 2016 I visited the Honolulu Police department to renew my long gun permit which had expired. Whilst waiting in line an officer came out and stated informing every one that they would be charged a $42 fee for the background check. I informed the officer that the fee was only for new, first time applicants. I was told that the fee was for everyone.
A short while after Major Robinson came down to the lobby, I informed him that I had an issue and he asked me what im going to do. I told him im going to the window and im not going to pay the $42, I tried to explain to him why and he told me he wont argue with me and he just wanted to know what im going to do, I told him thats what im going to do (not pay the $42) He told me I was not going to get a permit or registration. I asked him why. He told me the law passed says he can charge that fee, I tried to explained to him that the law does not allow them to charge a Fee for renewals but only first time applicants, he cut me of and again repeated hes not going to argue with me. I told him thats not what the HRS says and he is ignoring the law. He again affirmed that the law says he can charge any applicant for a permit a $42 fee. I tried to show him the copy of the bill I had he acknowledged that I had the bill and but again affirmed that if I dont pay I do not get my permit.
HRS 134-2 as signed into law by the Governor (via SB2954) reads :
‘(i) No fee shall be charged for permits, or applications for permits, under this section except for a single fee chargeable by and payable to the issuing county, for individuals applying for their first permit, in an amount equal to the fee charged by the Hawaii criminal justice data center pursuant to section 846-2.7. In the case of a joint application, the fee provided for in this section may be charged to each person to whom no previous permit has been issued.”
As you can clearly see the Law reads “for individuals applying for their first permit” Meaning any person who has previously got a permit is not required to pay.
The Honolulu Police department under the instruction of Major Robinson is illegally collecting funds in violation of HRS 134-2, Not only this they are denying applicants who dont hand over the payment there constitutionally protected rights.
I hereby request the following actions be taken,
1 : HPD cease the illegal action of collecting fuds from those who are not applying for the first time.
2 : HPD Refund all funds to those who were illegally charged.
3: An apology letter be issued by the department in News print and via the Honolulu police departments official website.
3 : Major Robinson attends classes on state firearms laws and constitutional law (he shows a flagrant disregard for both).
Your Immediate attention to this matter is greatly appreciated
Andrew Namiki Roberts
Second Amendment Fanatic
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Roger that London.
And Heavies, I wouldn't be refusing to pay, I just won't have the cash or my credit card.
So I couldn't pay.
Then they might just tell you that you have to go home and come back with the money within the 5 day period.
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Then they might just tell you that you have to go home and come back with the money within the 5 day period.
I would be more worried about them saying you cant register then, Waiting till day 6, Kicking in your front door at 2am to arrest you and seize all your firearms for having an unregistered gun. You then lose all your 2a rights. Thats why i was advising holding off.
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Just so I am clear about what you are saying.
According to the highlighted areas, you are saying all "registrants" need to pay a fee for RAPBACK background checks and maintenance, per subsection (e)?
However,
I read this as; persons bringing unregistered firearms INTO the state WITHOUT local background checks are the ones being required to pay the "RapBack" fee upon the required registration of the arms per state law. subsection (a)
This is not applicable to those who ALREADY have a valid permit to acquire. The checks are already DONE and the person is legal and cleared by Hawaii's laws to purchase and own a long gun or handgun (done prior) to implementation. There is no authorization here to charge people AFTER THE FACT for a registration of a legally acquired firearm purchased within the state.
Thats how I read it as well. Basically since the permit to purchase does not cover people who bring in guns , this amending covers them when they register their guns.
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I would be more worried about them saying you cant register then, Waiting till day 6, Kicking in your front door at 2am to arrest you and seize all your firearms for having an unregistered gun. You then lose all your 2a rights. Thats why i was advising holding off.
Agreed. I don't think they would go get a search warrant and kick down your door but they might make a criminal case and refer it to the prosecutor.
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Agreed. I don't think they would go get a search warrant and kick down your door but they might make a criminal case and refer it to the prosecutor.
If DC would do it over Ammo why wouldent HPD do it over a gun, We have a Swat Team they might as well use it.
"DC Police Raid Businessman’s House Searching For Unregistered Ammo"
A Washington, DC gun raid which involved more than 30 officers was not conducted at a known drug den or gang bangers’ hideout but at a respected businessman’s home – all to enforce a controversial city ammo law.
The shocking incident even included the man’s teenage son being pulled naked from the shower after the door was broken down with a battering ram.
In a nation where Americans supposedly possess the same Second Amendment rights, Mark Witaschek, a man without a criminal record, faces prison time for possession of unregistered ammo.
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Seems to me there are two issues here. Being entered into the rap back program and the other being the $42.00. I can see the rap back being a bother to some. But the $42.00 dollars? I'm sure you've spent that plus a lot more on your sport in a single day. Going down with coins? Childish.... If i'm behind you in line and you whip out the fee in coins, I'll be very disappointed. You're punishing the people behind you. Better you give the money to London808. The only thing HPD understands is litigation. By the way, for those of you that think HPD didn't have anything to do with the rap back program think again. The legislators are not smart enough to think up of this on their own. This most likely was suggested to them by HPD. Every day the legislature is in session there are two HPD officers there looking out for HPD's interests, not yours. Now go out a solicit donations, after you donate.
Yup was pretty pissed off. Guess I was just venting and I apologize. Already donated a few days ago to the gofundme site and encouraged a few of my friends to do so as well.
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Riiiiiiiiight. :wacko:
Kinda like going onto the freeway to stop traffic to get support, eh ?
Do you speed past and almost clip the road worker cuz you're pissed with traffic ?
Don't tip your waitress cuz the price of food is too high ?
Sure, you can be a little snowflake and piss off the guys behind the window so every one behind you pays for your stupidity. :grrr:
Suck it up ButterCup.
Actually HELP our cause instead of whining like a little Libtard. :'(
"Go out a solicit donations, after you donate to our legitimate legal fight.. :thumbsup:
I'm sure anyone you want to piss off will be more angry by losing to us than they will by some silly little childish stunt. :closed:
Glad your verbiage is so eloquent! Name calling will get you nowhere. Sure hope you feel better now. I've already donated as well as getting some friends of mine to do so as well. Money well spent. As for helping our cause instead of whining like a little libtard, whatever makes you happy but let me just say this. I've been fighting his fight for a long long time, since the days of Chief Nakamura, 27 years as a Hawaii Hunter Ed Master instructor who testified before the legislature numerous times to allow hunters to carry pistols in the field, helped in getting the Hawaii Hunter Ed program recognized as a venue for people who completed and passed the course to get thier handgun permits as well as donating a lot of cash to our cause over the years before I retired. Even with money being a little tight, I still give and will continue to give what I can. Yes I did piurchase an expensive pistol and sold two or three to finance it. Tell you what sonny, let's agree to disagree without resorting to name calling. We're both better than that. I was/was pissed about the BS Rap Back and no matter what anyone thinks or says, HPD was behind it and pushing for it and for that reason I'll personally take them to task. How I pay and what I pay with is between HPD and me but in the interest of making peace, will give them bills but in what denomination is my business.
Nuff said..... :worship:
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Then they might just tell you that you have to go home and come back with the money within the 5 day period.
I would be more worried about them saying you cant register then, Waiting till day 6, Kicking in your front door at 2am to arrest you and seize all your firearms for having an unregistered gun. You then lose all your 2a rights. Thats why i was advising holding off.
Agreed. I don't think they would go get a search warrant and kick down your door but they might make a criminal case and refer it to the prosecutor.
If DC would do it over Ammo why wouldent HPD do it over a gun, We have a Swat Team they might as well use it.
"DC Police Raid Businessman’s House Searching For Unregistered Ammo"
That's exactly why I would go in on the fifth day and tell them I need a note that they refused to register it unless I paid for Rapback, which I did not have the financial means to do at the time, to document I'm not illegal.
(My Wife's not too keen on my idea)
Didn't think about them setting me up as an example. >:(
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That's exactly why I would go in on the fifth day and tell them I need a note that they refused to register it unless I paid for Rapback, which I did not have the financial means to do at the time, to document I'm not illegal.
(My Wife's not too keen on my idea)
If you dont pay and they wont register it, On day 6 you can be arrested even if you ar at the station to register it. Being arrested is not being convicted. But between arrest and not guilty you can/would lose your 2A rights as you would of committed a crime using a firearm.
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Dammit! >:(
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Glad your verbiage is so eloquent! Name calling will get you nowhere. Sure hope you feel better now. I've already donated as well as getting some friends of mine to do so as well. Money well spent. As for helping our cause instead of whining like a little libtard, whatever makes you happy but let me just say this. I've been fighting his fight for a long long time, since the days of Chief Nakamura, 27 years as a Hawaii Hunter Ed Master instructor who testified before the legislature numerous times to allow hunters to carry pistols in the field, helped in getting the Hawaii Hunter Ed program recognized as a venue for people who completed and passed the course to get thier handgun permits as well as donating a lot of cash to our cause over the years before I retired. Even with money being a little tight, I still give and will continue to give what I can. Yes I did piurchase an expensive pistol and sold two or three to finance it. Tell you what sonny, let's agree to disagree without resorting to name calling. We're both better than that. I was/was pissed about the BS Rap Back and no matter what anyone thinks or says, HPD was behind it and pushing for it and for that reason I'll personally take them to task. How I pay and what I pay with is between HPD and me but in the interest of making peace, will give them bills but in what denomination is my business.
Nuff said..... :worship:
"Yup was pretty pissed off.
Guess I was just venting and I apologize" also :oops:
But your proposed action sounded just like what I've been reading about the young left so the names fit.
(As for name calling, maybe you should have a little respect for your elders).
Appreciate your service to educate others with the Hawaii Hunter Ed program, very educational in flora and fauna as well as hunting and natural resources
Not to belittle you, but after completing that course (in addition to my already existing certifications) I (as well as other professionals) did not find that it provided adequate handgun education to qualify one for a handgun permit. :shake:
If you really don't discharge a fire arm or even touch one, how can you be educated about them ?
Perhaps that is something they could work on. :thumbsup:
Glad your all in ! :worship:
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Heavies, aloha808 and A Hernandez.
I see your names on the YouTube post which has been picked up by LIFE (Lessons in Firearms Facebook page.
I don't have a YouTube "account" but maybe one of you guys can post the donation info on the You tube page.
I'll try to get it on the LIFE Facebook page.
:wave: :thumbsup:
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Heavies, aloha808 and A Hernandez.
I see your names on the YouTube post which has been picked up by LIFE (Lessons in Firearms Facebook page.
I don't have a YouTube "account" but maybe one of you guys can post the donation info on the You tube page.
I'll try to get it on the LIFE Facebook page.
:wave: :thumbsup:
done.
Searching for other places to post.
If Ya'll got Facebook pages, if you post the Gofundme link, it'll go out to all of your friends.
Re-posting info to keep it up top.
If anyone would like to contribute to the fight they can do so via
PayPal to : a_roberts_84@yahoo.co.uk
or
GoFundMe https://www.gofundme.com/stop-rapback-in-the-state-of-hawaii
or
Via Check or money order, payable to Andrew Namiki Roberts.
Mailed to : Andrew Namiki Roberts P.O BOX 283182 Honolulu, HI 96828
Any money received will go towards the legal fight to stop rapback any additional funds and/or unused funds will go towards other 2nd amendment challenges.
Ask me here If you have any questions
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=25630.msg227305#msg227305
feel free to PM me here also
or
give me a call at 808 726 2424.
:thumbsup:
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Just posted on FaceBook pages...
Tomi Lahren
The Blaze
Glen Beck
Honolulu Firearms and range
KHON New
Danger Close
Hawaii Reporter
Joe Moore
HRA
Spread the ...... word
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Roger that Rock. From the start I have been feverishly posting from my personal FB page and CCW Hawaii FB page.
Also using the hash tags #STOPRAPBACK and #CCWHawaii on Facebook. This creates links to the posts on both topics.
Not sure how much attention it has garnished, but I hope it is making a big difference.
Also have paid for ads space with the posting to FB. Set to run a week.
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I need suggestions on how to get the word out to the military members. They should be more alarmed since they're only temporary residents. I know there is a lot of restrictions on political and legislative speech on base.
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I need suggestions on how to get the word out to the military members. They should be more alarmed since they're only temporary residents. I know there is a lot of restrictions on political and legislative speech on base.
there are buy and sell groups on base on FB
maybe you can post something there
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...but after completing that course (in addition to my already existing certifications) I (as well as other professionals) did not find that it provided adequate handgun education to qualify one for a handgun permit.
This is a tangent to a tangent, but...
1. You support the concept of the government mandating "education" and/or mandating criteria to "qualify" in order to exercise a constitutionally-guaranteed right?
2. You support the concept of needing a permission slip from the government in order to keep and bear arms?
3. Do you support "universal background checks" on all transfers of firearms?
4. Do you support "registration" of all firearms?
5. Do you support the current taxes and paperwork required to own a suppressor and/or rifles and shotguns of certain dimensions or full automatic fire capability?
6. Do you support banning firearms accessories (magazines, etc.) based upon their cosmetic features or numeric capacity?
7. What else?
8. Why?
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This is a tangent to a tangent, but...
1. You support the concept of the government mandating "education" and/or mandating criteria to "qualify" in order to exercise a constitutionally-guaranteed right?
2. You support the concept of needing a permission slip from the government in order to keep and bear arms?
3. Do you support "universal background checks" on all transfers of firearms?
4. Do you support "registration" of all firearms?
5. Do you support the current taxes and paperwork required to own a suppressor and/or rifles and shotguns of certain dimensions or full automatic fire capability?
6. Do you support banning firearms accessories (magazines, etc.) based upon their cosmetic features or numeric capacity?
7. What else?
8. Why?
No to all of the above and no idea where you got all that from post but let me try and fix it.
"...but after completing that course (in addition to my already existing certifications) I (as well as other professionals) did not find that it provided adequate handgun firearm education to qualify one for a to safely handle a handgun permit firearm."
Your "getting the Hawaii Hunter Ed program recognized as a venue for people who completed and passed the course to get their handgun permits" which I will assume you were also an instructor of supported and fell in line with most of the above WHICH IS REQUIRED BY LAW AT THIS TIME , just as my services do.
:thumbsup:
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I need suggestions on how to get the word out to the military members. They should be more alarmed since they're only temporary residents. I know there is a lot of restrictions on political and legislative speech on base.
Try going thru Military wives/spouse links
Just posted on...
Hawaii army weekly
citydesk@staradvertiser.com :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping: :rofl: :rofl:
Try going thru Military wives/spouse links :worship:
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I Got a Response to my complaint.
Mr. Roberts,
Thank you for your email. The Honolulu Police Department does not interpret and implement firearms laws, we apply the firearms laws as directed by the State of Hawaii Attorney General's office. On their web site they have a "rap back fact sheet" page. Below is the link.
https://ag.hawaii.gov/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Rap-Back-Facts-Sheet-Final-12-7-16-002.pdf
I suggest any further inquires regarding the application of firearms laws be directed to the Attorney Generals office.
Thank you for your time
Major Richard Robinson
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My replywent out swifftly
Major Robinson,
The linked document again reiterates my original documention that your department is charging $42 to other than new applicants.
● The law authorizes people who register firearms in Hawaii to be entered in the FBI’s Rap Back service database.
"● People who have previously registered firearms in Hawaii will not be entered into Rap Back, unless they want to register an additional firearm in the future."
"● In addition to the $12.00 fee for the FBI background check, a fee of $30.00 will be assessed to all firearm registrants for the State background check. "
Applying for a permit is not a registration and as pointed pointed in my original e-mail, The law states that the fee applicable for a permit is for first time applicants.
You are correct in that the Honolulu Police department does not interpret the law but in this case you seem to think that its appropriate. Your own documentation shows that you are in fact wrong and that the fee is only applicable to new applicants and that rap back enrollment and the fee are applicable, at the time of registration.
Please take the time to re-read the document and get back to me. Next time i am at the station (December 19th to collect me permit) I will also drop of a copy of the constitution, As it appears your may be missing a few sections
Andrew Namiki Roberts,
Second Amendment Fanatic
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I do want to point out that i believe it is a little inappropriate for a police officer to respond to his own complaint.
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I do want to point out that i believe it is a little inappropriate for a police officer to respond to his own complaint.
I'm sure he is capable of being totally objective and adjudicating his own possible negligence, incompetence or intentional unlawful actions... you know, like Obama, Holder, and BATFE in the case of Fast and Furious.
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My replywent out swifftly
Major Robinson,
The linked document again reiterates my original documention that your department is charging $42 to other than new applicants.
● The law authorizes people who register firearms in Hawaii to be entered in the FBI’s Rap Back service database.
"● People who have previously registered firearms in Hawaii will not be entered into Rap Back, unless they want to register an additional firearm in the future."
"● In addition to the $12.00 fee for the FBI background check, a fee of $30.00 will be assessed to all firearm registrants for the State background check. "
Applying for a permit is not a registration and as pointed pointed in my original e-mail, The law states that the fee applicable for a permit is for first time applicants.
You are correct in that the Honolulu Police department does not interpret the law but in this case you seem to think that its appropriate. Your own documentation shows that you are in fact wrong and that the fee is only applicable to new applicants and that rap back enrollment and the fee are applicable, at the time of registration.
Please take the time to re-read the document and get back to me. Next time i am at the station (December 19th to collect me permit) I will also drop of a copy of the constitution, As it appears your may be missing a few sections
Andrew Namiki Roberts,
Second Amendment Fanatic
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Love it. :thumbsup:
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The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
But you are forced to sign a release....
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The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
But you are forced to sign a release....
Game set and match, the fact that they require a release tells you it's not a legal action, if it was they would just do it
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Maj. Robinson just shot himself in the foot with that AG link.
No where on that link States anything about application of a permit .
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Maj. Robinson just shot himself in the foot with that AG link.
No where on that link States anything about application of a permit .
Thats right, All he did was affirm what i said, Fees and Rapback are at Registration and not permits. I feel another Slam dunk coming on.
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Guys I love you all but I cannot wait to leave this State soon. The State Government ruins this place time and time again.
People like Robinson should not be in Government at all.
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Just a quick thing if any one wants to do a skype session to just shoot the shit or if any one has questions about rapback and whats going on you can add me on skype @ a_roberts_84@yahoo.co.uk
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"I suggest any further inquires regarding the application of firearms laws be directed to the Attorney Generals office."
Major Richard Robinson
.................When you direct question to the AG office they wont talk to you...... ??? :crazy: :wacko: ::) :wtf:
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.................When you direct question to the AG office they wont talk to you...... ??? :crazy: :wacko: ::) :wtf:
Mr. Roberts,
Unfortunately, the Attorney General cannot analyze, or provide legal advice to private citizens. As provided by statute:
The department shall administer and render state legal services, including furnishing of written legal opinions to the governor, legislature, and such state departments and officers as the governor may direct; represent the State in all civil actions in which the State is a party; approve as to legality and form all documents relating to the acquisition of any land or interest in lands by the State; and, unless otherwise provided by law, prosecute cases involving violations of state laws and cases involving agreements, uniform laws, or other matters which are enforceable in the courts of the State. The attorney general shall be charged with such other duties and have such authority as heretofore provided by common law or statute. Section 26-7, Hawaii Revised Statutes.
I regret that we are unable to help you.
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"Yup was pretty pissed off.
Guess I was just venting and I apologize" also :oops:
But your proposed action sounded just like what I've been reading about the young left so the names fit.
(As for name calling, maybe you should have a little respect for your elders).
Appreciate your service to educate others with the Hawaii Hunter Ed program, very educational in flora and fauna as well as hunting and natural resources
Not to belittle you, but after completing that course (in addition to my already existing certifications) I (as well as other professionals) did not find that it provided adequate handgun education to qualify one for a handgun permit. :shake:
If you really don't discharge a fire arm or even touch one, how can you be educated about them ?
Perhaps that is something they could work on. :thumbsup:
Glad your all in ! :worship:
Understand....I came off pretty childish now that I've read it. Hey by the way I agree 100% on HE class really teaches nothing about handguns. Let me clerify your what another Master and I suggested to the legislature. We advocated to get the NRA on board and, using the Wildlife Restoration Act of 1938 (think that's the year also known as Pittman/Robertson Act) funds to finance 75 cents on the dollar with the rest coming from the state and private fund from donations, fundraisers etc, and money from the NRA, we suggested that an air conditioned "classroom" be built at Kokohead, administered by the HE program. The course would be given there with handguns being taught by instructors who were NRA certified and woul follow all the rules for classroom as well as live fire. It was shot down by the sate, C&C and DOCARE, who managed to push thru what we have now. If I had my way the program would not qualify for a handgun permit. Oh well, we tried. Even asked for a classroom at Schofield dedicated for the course but were turned down by the Army (liability?).
Gonna play the game with Rap Back and just pay in normal denominations. Don't want to make a bad situation worse. Thanks for setting me straight. Us old farts can get pretty ornery :shaka: :wacko: :D
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I will be at the range Tomorrow, I will be shooting my pistol (might actually hit the target this time.) If you have any questions, Just want to say hi ect.... let me knows.
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This is a tangent to a tangent, but...
1. You support the concept of the government mandating "education" and/or mandating criteria to "qualify" in order to exercise a constitutionally-guaranteed right?
2. You support the concept of needing a permission slip from the government in order to keep and bear arms?
3. Do you support "universal background checks" on all transfers of firearms?
4. Do you support "registration" of all firearms?
5. Do you support the current taxes and paperwork required to own a suppressor and/or rifles and shotguns of certain dimensions or full automatic fire capability?
6. Do you support banning firearms accessories (magazines, etc.) based upon their cosmetic features or numeric capacity?
7. What else?
8. Why?
I support what Rocky said. As a former Master Instructor, I was always against it in its present form. At least a 10% of my students never fired a handgun. Dangerous! :D
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My replywent out swifftly
Major Robinson,
The linked document again reiterates my original documention that your department is charging $42 to other than new applicants.
● The law authorizes people who register firearms in Hawaii to be entered in the FBI’s Rap Back service database.
"● People who have previously registered firearms in Hawaii will not be entered into Rap Back, unless they want to register an additional firearm in the future."
"● In addition to the $12.00 fee for the FBI background check, a fee of $30.00 will be assessed to all firearm registrants for the State background check. "
Applying for a permit is not a registration and as pointed pointed in my original e-mail, The law states that the fee applicable for a permit is for first time applicants.
You are correct in that the Honolulu Police department does not interpret the law but in this case you seem to think that its appropriate. Your own documentation shows that you are in fact wrong and that the fee is only applicable to new applicants and that rap back enrollment and the fee are applicable, at the time of registration.
Please take the time to re-read the document and get back to me. Next time i am at the station (December 19th to collect me permit) I will also drop of a copy of the constitution, As it appears your may be missing a few sections
Andrew Namiki Roberts,
Second Amendment Fanatic
Thanks for your hard work. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :geekdanc:
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.................When you direct question to the AG office they wont talk to you...... ??? :crazy: :wacko: ::) :wtf:
Mr. Roberts,
Unfortunately, the Attorney General cannot analyze, or provide legal advice to private citizens. As provided by statute:
The department shall administer and render state legal services, including furnishing of written legal opinions to the governor, legislature, and such state departments and officers as the governor may direct; represent the State in all civil actions in which the State is a party; approve as to legality and form all documents relating to the acquisition of any land or interest in lands by the State; and, unless otherwise provided by law, prosecute cases involving violations of state laws and cases involving agreements, uniform laws, or other matters which are enforceable in the courts of the State. The attorney general shall be charged with such other duties and have such authority as heretofore provided by common law or statute. Section 26-7, Hawaii Revised Statutes.
I regret that we are unable to help you.
The Attorney General's Office, the Attorney General and the staff attorneys and clerks spent $73,140,520 (2013-2014 FY Budget) of taxpayer's (aka "the people"'s) money to justify ANY action taken by any branch of state government, no matter how arbitrary and capricious or unconstitutional those acts may be. Not only will they not make any public comment on any questions of law asked by the public, but they will not even answer the question of exactly who in their office was responsible for rendering an opinion. They must think the phrase "government of the people, by the people, and for the people" is a quaint relic only uttered or believed by hayseeds. Your tax dollars at work.
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If you dont pay and they wont register it, On day 6 you can be arrested even if you ar at the station to register it. Being arrested is not being convicted. But between arrest and not guilty you can/would lose your 2A rights as you would of committed a crime using a firearm.
I don't see anywhere that would give them the power to take away your firearms for an arrest but no conviction. Not saying his plan is a good idea but an arrest alone would not be enough. Furthermore, it would be a misdemeanor crime if convicted and it wouldn't be a violent one so I still don't see anywhere that would say his firearms would/could get taken away.
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Just so you guys are aware, That by not paying the $42, If HPD decides not to issue my permit i lose my 2A rights AGAIN.
§134-7.3 Seizure of firearms upon disqualification. (a) If any applicant is denied a permit, the chiefs of police of the respective counties shall send, by certified mail, a notice setting forth the reasons for the denial and may require that the applicant voluntarily surrender all firearms and ammunition to the chief of police where the applicant resides or dispose of all firearms and ammunition. If an applicant fails to voluntarily surrender or dispose of all firearms and ammunition within thirty days from the date notice was mailed, the chief of police may seize all firearms and ammunition.
EEF, Would it be to far to believe that due to a registration denial and you being in possession of an unregistered firearm, HPD would go get a warrant to seize that firearm and in the process seize all your other firearms at the same time.
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Lack of Rapback is a disqualifying attribute to firearm ownership now? Didn't see that one in the law either.
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I've seen several mentions of the Firearms Owners' Protection Act (FOPA) in this thread... I'd caution against getting your hopes up that a challenge based on FOPA will have any success. If you read the applicable section of the U.S. Code, to include the definitions used, it looks to me like FOPA only restricts the Attorney General of the United States from making such rules. It doesn't restrict state legislatures from passing laws, state governors from signing/enacting them, or state attorneys general from enforcing them.
Looks unlikely that we'll be able to get the law completely blocked via litigation; change will have to come from the ballot box.
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I've seen several mentions of the Firearms Owners' Protection Act (FOPA) in this thread... I'd caution against getting your hopes up that a challenge based on FOPA will have any success. If you read the applicable section of the U.S. Code, to include the definitions used, it looks to me like FOPA only restricts the Attorney General of the United States from making such rules. It doesn't restrict state legislatures from passing laws, state governors from signing/enacting them, or state attorneys general from enforcing them.
Looks unlikely that we'll be able to get the law completely blocked via litigation; change will have to come from the ballot box.
And who must approve non criminal justice use of rapback.......
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Might be time to start lobbying Sen Sessions, then... :thumbsup: