2aHawaii
General Topics => Legal and Activism => Topic started by: suka on December 07, 2016, 03:39:14 PM
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The Bill has yet to receive a Bill number.
Hudson Bill Helps Residents of Anti-gun States .....
The Hudson bill is a breakthrough in two important respects.
First, it recognizes the 12 Constitutional Carry states and encourages other states to join them.
Second, the Hudson bill benefits citizens of anti-gun states who get permits from pro-gun states.
So if a gun owner living in Hawaii, California, New Jersey, or New York gets a carry permit from Utah, then he or she will be able to carry a firearm in any state in the country!
The Hudson Bill will be introduced next month on the Floor and Trump has stated that he will push the Bill and sign within his first 90 days in office.
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The Bill has yet to receive a Bill number.
Hudson Bill Helps Residents of Anti-gun States .....
The Hudson bill is a breakthrough in two important respects.
First, it recognizes the 12 Constitutional Carry states and encourages other states to join them.
Second, the Hudson bill benefits citizens of anti-gun states who get permits from pro-gun states.
So if a gun owner living in Hawaii, California, New Jersey, or New York gets a carry permit from Utah, then he or she will be able to carry a firearm in any state in the country!
The Hudson Bill will be introduced next month on the Floor and Trump has stated that he will push the Bill and sign within his first 90 days in office.
and the dems have declared that one of their number one priorities is to stop any national right to carry bills...
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In Hudson’s opinion, the bill has a very good chance of getting passed.
“In the last Congress that’s about to end, in 48 hours, we had over 200 co-sponsors… so I think passing the House is not going to be a problem and now more importantly… we’ve got a President who supports this freedom,” he said.
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In Hudson’s opinion, the bill has a very good chance of getting passed.
“In the last Congress that’s about to end, in 48 hours, we had over 200 co-sponsors… so I think passing the House is not going to be a problem and now more importantly… we’ve got a President who supports this freedom,” he said.
He just left out one minor detail: the Senate. Republicans only have 51 seats, likely 52 after the 12/10/2016 vote in LA, which is not enough (they need 60) to overcome a filibuster by the Dems. The factor everyone is talking about is that in 2018 25 of the 32 Senate seats up for election are Democrats, and 8 of those are from states that just voted for Trump. If they want to hedge their bets they might throw a bone to gun rights advocates and vote for national reciprocity... though Schumer might disown them... or he might see it as a strategically important move to try to retain those seats for the Dems in 2018. Who knows? The waiting is the hardest part...
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Here is a copy of the bill:
http://dailycaller.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Concealed-Carry-Reciprocity-Act-of-2017-Rep.-Hudson.pdf
Here's a copy of part of the bill (page 2, with line numbers), which reads to me as if you have to have a license from your state of residence (i.e. a Hawaii resident holding a non-resident Utah permit would not be sufficient for a Hawaii resident to carry in Hawaii):
Notwithstanding any provision of the law of any
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State or political subdivision thereof (except as provided
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in subsection (b)), a person who is not prohibited by Fed-
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eral law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiv-
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ing a firearm, who is carrying a valid identification docu-
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ment containing a photograph of the person, and who is
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carrying a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant
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to the law of a State and which permits the person to
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carry a concealed firearm or is entitled to carry a con-
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cealed firearm in the State in which the person resides,
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may possess or carry a concealed handgun (other than a
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machinegun or destructive device) that has been shipped
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or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, in any
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State, other than the State of residence of the person,
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The new 2017 version that will be introduced , is still in the works. It will remove the same State requirements for residents of Hawaii, New York, California and Jersey.
This due to the fact that these States rarely issues permits.
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other than the State of residence of the person,
"
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The new 2017 version that will be introduced , is still in the works. It will remove the same State requirements for residents of Hawaii, New York, California and Jersey.
This due to the fact that these States rarely issues permits.
Let's hope so. I wanted to write the Congressman and ask him about it but his website says they won't respond to anyone outside his district. And I'm too lazy to look up a qualifying address...
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"other than the State of residence of the person, "
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Im a legal resident in PA,
have a PA resident State ID,
PA permit to carry,
registered handgun in Hawaii,
10 round mag.
As soon as that law takes effect I would be legal to carry in Hawaii.
Would not know if all cops here will comply , and get arrested.
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He just left out one minor detail: the Senate. Republicans only have 51 seats, likely 52 after the 12/10/2016 vote in LA, which is not enough (they need 60) to overcome a filibuster by the Dems. The factor everyone is talking about is that in 2018 25 of the 32 Senate seats up for election are Democrats, and 8 of those are from states that just voted for Trump. If they want to hedge their bets they might throw a bone to gun rights advocates and vote for national reciprocity... though Schumer might disown them... or he might see it as a strategically important move to try to retain those seats for the Dems in 2018. Who knows? The waiting is the hardest part...
Just do what the Democrats did, "Nuclear option" change the rule to 51, when you need to cram something through.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_option
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Just do what the Democrats did, "Nuclear option" change the rule to 51, when you need to cram something through.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_option
OR just wait till all the demorats are sitting on the floor pouting or blocking some freeway, then take a vote.
DONE DEAL!
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Hawaii will find a way to block this.
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According to the GOA email of today (Friday, December 9, 2016):
[Edit: link to article on GOA website: https://www.gunowners.org/alert1272016a.htm]
Hudson Bill Helps Residents of Anti-gun States from California to New York
The Hudson bill is a breakthrough in two important respects.
First, it recognizes the 12 Constitutional Carry states and encourages other states to join them.
If a state recognizes the God-given right of its citizens to protect themselves and their families without getting the government's permission, then they can do so in any state in the country.
Second, the Hudson bill benefits citizens of anti-gun states who get permits from pro-gun states.
So if a gun owner living in "occupied" California, New Jersey, or New York gets a carry permit from Utah, then he or she will be able to carry a firearm in any state in the country!
* * * *
There is no link to the "unnumered bill", so I haven't read the language, but it would definitely have to be different than the above language from Hudson's website link. I can see how the Demorats (not a typo) would want to fight this all the way. Can't have people exercising their constitutionally-guaranteed civil rights if the state public servants have deemed them unworthy.
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Whats gonna happen is if hawaii doesnt adapt, visitors who dont understand our culture will be allowed to carry and not any locals.
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Hudson Bill Helps Residents of Anti-gun States from California to New York
I guess Hawaii's not a state. :(
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I guess Hawaii's not a state. :(
And I guess you are right, because I have won several auctions on EBay over the years and gotten replies from sellers that told me, "Sorry, but we do not ship out of the United States."
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I guess Hawaii's not a state. :(
It probably shouldn't be a state. Perhaps more appropriately a territory like Guam, you know, where they have "shall issue" CCW.
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Here is the view of Charles Nichols (President of California Right to Carry, and litigant of the challenge to California's open carry ban, Nichols v. Brown) on the possibility of a national concealed carry reciprocity law being enacted:
http://newsblaze.com/business/legal/national-concealed-carry-snake-oil-law-will-fail_71008/
Excerpt:
In no particular order, there are a number of obstacles. The first of which is getting a national concealed carry reciprocity bill passed by Congress and signed into law.
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I read the bill “preferred” by the NRA and the GOA gun groups. The bill does not have the legal language the courts require to withstand a legal challenge even if the bill were “regulating” an economic area in which the courts have upheld laws in the past under the Commerce Clause.
Another obstacle is that concealed carry is not a right under the Second Amendment or a right under Federal common law. Since June of 2008 we have had three US Supreme Court cases which have reaffirmed that concealed carry is not a right in accordance with a US Supreme Court decision from 1897 which said that prohibitions on concealed carry do not infringe on the Second Amendment.
There is a US Supreme Court decision which discusses the limitations on the authority of the Congress to legislate under the Commerce Clause and why firearms regulations are different from typical commerce clause regulations. I highly recommend that you give it a read. It is United States v. Morrison, 529 US 598 [https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=3801442224983217117 (https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=3801442224983217117)] (Supreme Court 2000) beginning at 608.
Mr. Trump is not a lawyer and does not pretend to be a legal expert in any area of the law. And yet one can’t throw a paper cup in the Congress without it hitting a lawyer. Lawyers are professional liars. Lawyers who are also politicians are the worst liars of all.
Any congressman who tells you that Congress has the authority to enact a national concealed carry reciprocity bill is either lying to you, or is incompetent, or is one who would remove the last remaining limits on Federal power.
Which makes him evil as well.
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Here is the view of Charles Nichols (President of California Right to Carry, and litigant of the challenge to California's open carry ban, Nichols v. Brown) on the possibility of a national concealed carry reciprocity law being enacted:
http://newsblaze.com/business/legal/national-concealed-carry-snake-oil-law-will-fail_71008/
Excerpt:
In no particular order, there are a number of obstacles. The first of which is getting a national concealed carry reciprocity bill passed by Congress and signed into law.
.....
I read the bill “preferred” by the NRA and the GOA gun groups. The bill does not have the legal language the courts require to withstand a legal challenge even if the bill were “regulating” an economic area in which the courts have upheld laws in the past under the Commerce Clause.
Another obstacle is that concealed carry is not a right under the Second Amendment or a right under Federal common law. Since June of 2008 we have had three US Supreme Court cases which have reaffirmed that concealed carry is not a right in accordance with a US Supreme Court decision from 1897 which said that prohibitions on concealed carry do not infringe on the Second Amendment.
There is a US Supreme Court decision which discusses the limitations on the authority of the Congress to legislate under the Commerce Clause and why firearms regulations are different from typical commerce clause regulations. I highly recommend that you give it a read. It is United States v. Morrison, 529 US 598 [https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=3801442224983217117 (https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=3801442224983217117)] (Supreme Court 2000) beginning at 608.
Mr. Trump is not a lawyer and does not pretend to be a legal expert in any area of the law. And yet one can’t throw a paper cup in the Congress without it hitting a lawyer. Lawyers are professional liars. Lawyers who are also politicians are the worst liars of all.
Any congressman who tells you that Congress has the authority to enact a national concealed carry reciprocity bill is either lying to you, or is incompetent, or is one who would remove the last remaining limits on Federal power.
Which makes him evil as well.
That's premise may be correct. That is why states can require people to be licensed to carry concealed.
Similarly driving is not a right, and states can require licensing to drive.
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I like attorney Alan Korwin's views and his writing style. He's "no compromise". Here is some of his thinking re national reciprocity law. Worth the read if you are interested in the legal aspects of the questions and solutions. I'd love to see the traitors who deny us our civil rights go to jail for a long long time.
http://pagenine.typepad.com/page_nine/2016/12/stop-the-national-carry-permit.html
Stop The National Carry Permit
"Gun Guys" Are Pushing In Wrong Direction
Misguided effort to restore rights can destroy rights
Will NRA, GOA and others get it right?
Excerpt:
Repeal restrictions on the right to bear arms.
The next logical step would be to arrest and charge officials who under color of law deny a peaceful person's civil right to possess arms. Denial of rights is a federal felony under 18 USC §241 et seq. You can't just deny a person's constitutional, civil and human rights because you don't like those rights. That's got a name. It's gunism, like racism. This law 18-241 and the ones that follow it were written to prevent haters from denying blacks their rights. Everyone has fundamental rights that need the same protection.
Blind hatred of guns is gunism.
If a national carry solution is proposed that does not include punishment for violators (officials who stop you solely for possession, or harass you, remove or attempt to remove your firearm for any invalid reason, incarcerate you, post signs that falsely indicate you cannot "drink at this water fountain," or otherwise act against your legal right to keep and bear arms), experience shows they will not obey the law. We see this all the time. The law only matters if it has teeth.
We call this comitatus-style law, like the posse comitatus law. Instead of enacting, "A person may legally bear arms across state lines," which officials can violate without repercussion, the law must say, "Anyone who interferes with a person legally bearing arms, shall go to prison and pay a fine."
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I'm not a fan of the commerce clause as I feel it's usually abused more than it helps. Also the US is made up of 54 separate countries, States rights vs Federal Govt.
The courts usually handle constitutional issues, not congress, which is why I'm depending on the SCOTUS to give us CCW.
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Rep. Hudson was interviewed by AWR Hawkins on his podcast "Bullets" on 12/12/16. Hudson made no mention at all of non-resident permits/licenses. He only discussed 1. national reciprocity being similar to a drivers license in that all states recognize the one issued by the resident's state, and 2. that those people living in "permitless carry" states would only have to show their state ID (since there is or may be no permit or license) as proof of reciprocity.
http://www.podcastone.com/bullets-with-awr-hawkins
Post date: 12/13/16
Rep. Hudson interview begins at 22:17.
Hawkins discusses reciprocity some in the first segment but does not mention the non-resident permit issue.
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I just spoke to someone in Rep. Hudson's office in Washington, D.C. and asked him to pass along the suggestion of including a provision in the national reciprocity bill to allow holders of non-resident permits to carry in their (de facto "no issue") state of residence, such as Hawaii where not one single resident has a CCW license and therefore would not be helped by the current version of the bill except when traveling to the mainland to any states not covered by a current non-resident reciprocity agreement. As I explained some detail about why Rep. Hudson was our only hope, such as the 100% Dem state senate, 93% Dem state house, not one single CCW license in the whole state, no reciprocity with any other states, etc. he said "That sounds unbelievable". So it's not just me.
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GOOD ONE !!
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Thanks puna for calling.
I wonder if more of us should call incase the person u talked to didnt pass the message.
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Thanks puna for calling.
I wonder if more of us should call incase the person u talked to didnt pass the message.
I've contacted several other people. I don't suppose it could hurt to have more input to Rep. Hudson since he seems to be the sponsor of the bill. Since the person I talked to yesterday in his office seemed to have never heard of the idea (for non-resident permits to be recognized in a de facto "no issue" state for state residents bearing those permits) I doubt they are overwhelmed by input for the suggestion.
https://hudson.house.gov/
Washington DC
Phone: (704) 786-1612
Fax: (704) 782-1004
Hours: M-F 8:30-5:30pm
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Just left a voicemail. I'll try again tomorrow. Can't email due to not having a NC zip code.
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Got a call back at 645am from his office. The gal i was talking to seemed on it. She was actually looking up the HRS134 ccw code as we spoke. And she was very sympathetic for us. She will pass the word to DC about thr bills language so Hawaii can carry.
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Got a call back at 645am from his office. The gal i was talking to seemed on it. She was actually looking up the HRS134 ccw code as we spoke. And she was very sympathetic for us. She will pass the word to DC about thr bills language so Hawaii can carry.
Thanks for your efforts. It'd be really cool if just a few phone calls ended up at least getting our plight considered, if not incorporated into the bill. I can see how having non-resident permits legalizing carry by residents of "no issue" states might be an impediment too great to incorporate into the bill (numerous state's (such as Hawaii) LE and legislative and administrative bureaucrats would be apoplectic... I personally hope those would be fatal)... but at least they're aware of the issue and how the current make-up of the bill wouldn't help us (or the people in Maryland, New Jersey, etc.) in our home states.
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NP. I'm new to the firearms community (3 months) so I want to do what I can. You know the saying "no vote, no grumble". I'm actually going to apply for CCW here knowing I'm going to be denied. Still waiting on my Nevada CCW, it's only been 45 days. The website says don't call unless it exceeds 120 days.
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NP. I'm new to the firearms community (3 months) so I want to do what I can. You know the saying "no vote, no grumble". I'm actually going to apply for CCW here knowing I'm going to be denied. Still waiting on my Nevada CCW, it's only been 45 days. The website says don't call unless it exceeds 120 days.
Something to consider: The Ninth Circuit has ruled (Peruta) that there is no constitutionally-protected civil right to bear arms concealed (that is merely a "privilege" that the state may "regulate" in any way it deems fit, including a total "de facto" ban), and thus any legal appeal on Hawaii's denials of CCW licenses is doomed to failure unless and until some case re CCW as a "right" would be upheld by the SCOTUS. This is likely years away, if ever. You might want to apply for an open carry license (either instead of or in addition to a CCW license) if you want to have grounds for possible legal action. Of course that's doomed to failure as well, but at least you'd be failing on untrod ground. There is no end to the arbitrary, capricious and illegal infringements of our civil rights here in Hawaii, so thanks for making the efforts to at least make some noise, pending the discovery of some secret formula for actions that would actually be effective in changing things here. :shaka:
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Something to consider: The Ninth Circuit has ruled (Peruta) that there is no constitutionally-protected civil right to bear arms concealed (that is merely a "privilege" that the state may "regulate" in any way it deems fit, including a total "de facto" ban), and thus any legal appeal on Hawaii's denials of CCW licenses is doomed to failure unless and until some case re CCW as a "right" would be upheld by the SCOTUS. This is likely years away, if ever. You might want to apply for an open carry license (either instead of or in addition to a CCW license) if you want to have grounds for possible legal action. Of course that's doomed to failure as well, but at least you'd be failing on untrod ground. There is no end to the arbitrary, capricious and illegal infringements of our civil rights here in Hawaii, so thanks for making the efforts to at least make some noise, pending the discovery of some secret formula for actions that would actually be effective in changing things here. :shaka:
Apply more for the fact that if an "exceptional circumstance" does arise and I am left unarmed to protect myself or others then I can hold HPD liable because I did apply and got denied.
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Apply more for the fact that if an "exceptional circumstance" does arise and I am left unarmed to protect myself or others then I can hold HPD liable because I did apply and got denied.
I understand, though I doubt that such a lawsuit would ever succeed despite spending at least tens of thousands of dollars. You could try submitting a legal document with your application that would acknowledge HPD's legal and financial liability should they deny you a license and you suffer any negative effect in any circumstance where you might have avoided those negative consequences had you been granted a license and carrying legally. Of course they won't sign it, nor will they acknowledge that they refused to sign it. The other possibility is that if you or your family are ever subject to criminal assault or attempted murder you could ask the criminal to stop while you ask the cops if they could NOW issue you a license as you find yourself in "an exceptional circumstance". The whole charade disgusts me and makes me sick. :shaka:
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I understand, though I doubt that such a lawsuit would ever succeed despite spending at least tens of thousands of dollars. You could try submitting a legal document with your application that would acknowledge HPD's legal and financial liability should they deny you a license and you suffer any negative effect in any circumstance where you might have avoided those negative consequences had you been granted a license and carrying legally. Of course they won't sign it, nor will they acknowledge that they refused to sign it. The other possibility is that if you or your family are ever subject to criminal assault or attempted murder you could ask the criminal to stop while you ask the cops if they could NOW issue you a license as you find yourself in "an exceptional circumstance". The whole charade disgusts me and makes me sick. :shaka:
There is a law to cover
"HPD's legal and financial liability should they deny you a license and you suffer any negative effect in any circumstance where you might have avoided those negative consequences had you been granted a license and carrying legally".
it is this -
Title 18 U.S. Code § 242 - Deprivation of rights under color of law
Whoever, under color of any law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom, willfully subjects any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or to different punishments, pains, or penalties, on account of such person being an alien, or by reason of his color, or race, than are prescribed for the punishment of citizens, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both; and if bodily injury results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include the use, attempted use, or threatened use of a dangerous weapon, explosives, or fire, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.
Our local problem is finding a lawyer to help us prosecute this "Qui Tam" in a federal court,
when we are denied. Arbitrary, conceal carry permit denial is clearly a federal crime.
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The bill is out, it's HR38.
https://hudson.house.gov/press-releases/hudson-introduces-national-concealed-carry-reciprocity-bill/#.WGyOYlz-VtZ
WASHINGTON, D.C. – Today, U.S. Representative Richard Hudson (NC-08) released the following statement after introducing the bipartisan Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act of 2017 (H.R. 38) with 58 original cosponsors:
“Our Second Amendment right doesn’t disappear when we cross state lines, and this legislation guarantees that. The Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act of 2017 is a common sense solution to a problem too many Americans face. It will provide law-abiding citizens the right to conceal carry and travel freely between states without worrying about conflicting state codes or onerous civil suits. As a member of President-elect Trump’s Second Amendment Coalition, I look forward to working with my colleagues and the administration to get this legislation across the finish line.”
Rep. Hudson’s bill, which is supported by major pro-Second Amendment groups, would allow people with a state-issued concealed carry license or permit to conceal a handgun in any other state that allows concealed carry, as long as the permit holder follows the laws of that state. It also allows residents of Constitutional carry states the ability to carry in other states that recognize their own resident’s right to concealed carry.
Added discussions at http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1951105_National-Concealed-Carry-Reciprocity-Bill-Introduced---Jan-3--2017.html
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[ETA: Hey zippz, I was typing my post at the same time... do you concur that the language I highlighted means a non-resident permit is valid in a state where residents are not issued CCW licenses? The language in the bill could be clearer regarding that issue, unless it's intentionally vague so as not to emphasize that "loophole"...).
Apparently Rep. Hudson introduced the national reciprocity bill today, the first day of the new Congress. It does not have a bill number yet.
Here is the language that seems to allow non-resident licenses/permits to be valid in any other state (my emphasis):
Notwithstanding any provision of the law of any State or political subdivision thereof (except as provided in subsection (b)) and subject only to the requirements of this section, a person who is not prohibited by Federal law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm, who is carrying a valid identification document containing a photograph of the person, and who is carrying a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of a State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm or is entitled to carry a concealed firearm in the State in which the person resides, may possess or carry a concealed handgun (other than a machinegun or destructive device) that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, in any State that— (1) has a statute under which residents of the State may apply for a license or permit to carry a concealed firearm; or (2) does not prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms by residents of the State for lawful purposes.
Brief article by AWR Hawkins: http://www.breitbart.com/2nd-amendment/2017/01/03/gop-rep-introduces-national-concealed-carry-reciprocity-day-one-new-congress/
The bill itself: https://hudson.house.gov/uploads/Concealed%20Carry%20Reciprocity%20Act%20of%202017.pdf
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[ETA: Hey zippz, I was typing my post at the same time... do you concur that the language I highlighted means a non-resident permit is valid in a state where residents are not issued CCW licenses? The language in the bill could be clearer regarding that issue, unless it's intentionally vague so as not to emphasize that "loophole"...).
Apparently Rep. Hudson introduced the national reciprocity bill today, the first day of the new Congress. It does not have a bill number yet.
Here is the language that seems to allow non-resident licenses/permits to be valid in any other state (my emphasis):
Notwithstanding any provision of the law of any State or political subdivision thereof (except as provided in subsection (b)) and subject only to the requirements of this section, a person who is not prohibited by Federal law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm, who is carrying a valid identification document containing a photograph of the person, and who is carrying a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of a State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm or is entitled to carry a concealed firearm in the State in which the person resides, may possess or carry a concealed handgun (other than a machinegun or destructive device) that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, in any State that— (1) has a statute under which residents of the State may apply for a license or permit to carry a concealed firearm; or (2) does not prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms by residents of the State for lawful purposes.
Brief article by AWR Hawkins: http://www.breitbart.com/2nd-amendment/2017/01/03/gop-rep-introduces-national-concealed-carry-reciprocity-day-one-new-congress/
The bill itself: https://hudson.house.gov/uploads/Concealed%20Carry%20Reciprocity%20Act%20of%202017.pdf
i am not a lawyer, but to me, it says that you have to have A permit (not a permit in your state of residence) and your state must 1) have a statute under which residents MAY apply (we can apply here- so far, even though no one gets) or 2) does not prohibit ccw (our state does not-yet)
so, to me, we should be good if we have a non-resident permit in another state
BUT, our AG will probably read it differently, and we will have another lawsuit
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i am not a lawyer, but to me, it says that you have to have A permit (not a permit in your state of residence) and your state must 1) have a statute under which residents MAY apply (we can apply here- so far, even though no one gets) or 2) does not prohibit ccw (our state does not-yet)
so, to me, we should be good if we have a non-resident permit in another state
BUT, our AG will probably read it differently, and we will have another lawsuit
"Probably"?! ;)
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"Probably"?! ;)
yeah, ok
will the jury please disregard the word "probably"
>:D
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Hawaii will just make the law here say, All people wishing to carry in the state must complete X amount of training a year and be certified by a Hawaii state instructor and then make it impossible to get certification, Just like they do with LEOSA
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I agree with Mac, that you can get a non-resident permit from another state to use in Hawaii
"valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of a State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm
Means you can have a permit from any State
or
is entitled to carry a concealed firearm in the State in which the person resides,
This appears to be for constitutional carry states that don't issue a permit
may possess or carry a concealed handgun"
EDIT: I'm sure the AG's office will say that the State can chose between the two clauses and go with the 2nd one where Hawaii doesn't issue permits.
They also include a section where if Hawaii (or other anti-gun State) interferes with this, you can sue them in court and will win damages and attorney fees like how the Federal law protects firearms manufacturers from fraudulent lawsuits.
It's going to need the support of 8 Democrat Senators to pass. It's possible but it's going to be tough to pass. I'm pretty sure Schatz and HIrono will be against it 100%
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Hawaii also passes this test
1. has a statute under which residents of the State may apply for a license or permit to carry a concealed firearm
2. does not prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms by residents of the State for lawful purposes.
I don't think there are any no issue states anymore
(http://www.gun-nuttery.com/rtc.gif)
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Hawaii will just make the law here say, All people wishing to carry in the state must complete X amount of training a year and be certified by a Hawaii state instructor and then make it impossible to get certification, Just like they do with LEOSA
Possible. But we could carry with another state's CCW permit and skip the whole Hawaii CCW process. If the AG or police want put up roadblocks or start arresting people, let them. They will lose in court per the Federal Law, and have to pay damages. Sounds like easy money to me.
What they could do is eliminate Hawaii's CCW statute.
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Hawaii will just make the law here say, All people wishing to carry in the state must complete X amount of training a year and be certified by a Hawaii state instructor and then make it impossible to get certification, Just like they do with LEOSA
What if Im not a resident of Hawaii?
Just here for the winter months or vacationing?
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Possible. But we could carry with another state's CCW permit and skip the whole Hawaii CCW process. If the AG or police want put up roadblocks or start arresting people, let them. They will lose in court per the Federal Law, and have to pay damages. Sounds like easy money to me.
What they could do is eliminate Hawaii's CCW statute.
How would the security company protect the cash they transport?
CCW are issued to security personnels.
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How would the security company protect the cash they transport?
CCW are issued to security personnels.
Security companies have open carry permits. Just eliminate the concealed carry portion of the law so that the Hudson Bill doesn't affect Hawaii.
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So far seems like a good bill. Especially the portion of awarding reasonable damages for wrongful CCW charges from the state.
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It would suck for people visiting Hawaii, they would still have to register their firearms. So I hope they look up our laws before carrying here.
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What if Im not a resident of Hawaii?
Just here for the winter months or vacationing?
You have to still register your firearm. You have 5 days to do so.
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It would suck for people visiting Hawaii, they would still have to register their firearms. So I hope they look up our laws before carrying here.
Maryland, New York, DC and California have similar registration laws.
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You have to still register your firearm. You have 5 days to do so.
actually 3 day and it only a petty misdemeanor!!
HRS134-17 (b) Any person who violates section 134-3(a) shall be guilty of a petty misdemeanor.
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actually 3 day and it only a petty misdemeanor!!
HRS134-17 (b) Any person who violates section 134-3(a) shall be guilty of a petty misdemeanor.
crime involving a firearm, No guns for you
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tourist
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What if Im not a resident of Hawaii?
Just here for the winter months or vacationing?
Thats fine you can carry here if your vacationing with your CCW, You just have to met. Just like LEOSA
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Wouldn't suprise me if HPD starts taking firearms from people registering out of state guns for 14 days till your background checks are done.
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Wouldn't suprise me if HPD starts taking firearms from people registering out of state guns for 14 days till your background checks are done.
I don't see that happening since there is no basis in the law to do so. The 14 day waiting period is a purely arbitrary "cooling off" period which (for now) is legal. Background checks are done through NICS which are typically received in minutes or hours.
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I don't see that happening since there is no basis in the law to do so. The 14 day waiting period is a purely arbitrary "cooling off" period which (for now) is legal. Background checks are done through NICS which are typically received in minutes or hours.
In Hawaii the 14 days is to allow them to contact state health and your doctor as well as the BG check.
Who says it needs to be in the LAW, HPD does shit all the time thats not in the law.
For example. requiring you to present a firearm for inspection at registration,
Requiring you to sign the rapback waiver for a permit.
Requiring you to provide your home address on a registration/permit even if you have a business address.
Requiring you to provide your doctors name and address.
all of wich is legal untill some one gets a court to say its not.
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Also requiring a permit to register a firearm.
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Also requiring a permit to register a firearm.
Maryland requires this. If you want to register a handgun you already own, you apply for a permit and give the firearm to the police to hold on to. Once your permit is cleared, the police give back the gun and then you register it.
I'm traveling to Maryland next week and wanted to bringing my gun. I looked at the gun laws there and I changed my mind.
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Maryland requires this. If you want to register a handgun you already own, you apply for a permit and give the firearm to the police to hold on to. Once your permit is cleared, the police give back the gun and then you register it.
I'm traveling to Maryland next week and wanted to bringing my gun. I looked at the gun laws there and I changed my mind.
Opened carry in Ohio , W. Virginia and Penn, but as soon as i got to Marylands boarder pulled over and locked up my guns.
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Im a legal resident in PA,
have a PA resident State ID,
PA permit to carry,
registered handgun in Hawaii,
10 round mag.
As soon as that law takes effect I would be legal to carry in Hawaii.
Would not know if all cops here will comply , and get arrested.
I was thinking about that. Every year when we have to file our state income taxes, there's the place for a part time resident.
I figured all someone would have to do is get a state ID in Vegas with their Cousin's house address and get CCW for Nevada. The was that law sounds(and I am no lawyer) you would be able to carry in Hawaii. Showing your out of state ID and CCW.
I can see it now come April 20th, the Hawaii Dept of Taxation scratching their heads at 100k new part time residents on their N15, almost all of them showing self employment in the other state...
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Used the automated system to send out an email. We'll see if I get any response from whats her face....
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Spoke to a guy in Hudson's office and he didn't know Hawaii was a may issue. Told him about the concern for out of towners having to register their guns when visiting due to our laws. Let him know that they may want to look into that issue. Said he would let DC know. Also told him it is the responsibility of the gun owner to know the laws before they travel, but if someone is visiting here for 4 days, they're not going to want to carry because they have to register their gun.
Thanks Suka for the heads up on this issue.
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Some people point to the following language in the bill as exempting visitors from Hawaii's mandatory 72 hour registration requirement. Because a visitor could not legally be "in possession" of a firearm after 72 hours, this language would seem to exempt people from that illegality and arrest/prosecution. I'm sure it's "debatable", and wouldn't hurt to have specific language regarding immunity from any jurisdiction's registration requirements. Imagine the line...
‘‘(c)(1) A person who carries or possesses a concealed
handgun in accordance with subsections (a) and (b) may
not be arrested or otherwise detained for violation of any
law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political
subdivision thereof related to the possession, transpor-
tation, or carrying of firearms unless there is probable
cause to believe that the person is doing so in a manner
not provided for by this section.
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Might be worthwhile to write Representative Tulsi Gabbard to support this. She was stalked for several years by a crazy guy before going to congress.
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Might be worthwhile to write Representative Tulsi Gabbard to support this. She was stalked for several years by a crazy guy before going to congress.
Tulsi doesn't think civilians need guns.
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Tulsi doesn't think civilians need guns.
She may think the opposite from stuff I've heard.
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Shared from hispdvic..
Congress Introduces National Concealed Carry Reciprocity
http://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/day-1-congress-introduces-national-concealed-carry-reciprocity/
To ensure that our Second Amendment right does not disappear when we cross state lines, Rep. Richard Hudson (NC-08) introduced the Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act of 2017 with strong support by major pro Second Amendment groups. This legislation will:
•Ensure that valid concealed carry permits issued in one state are valid for carrying concealed handguns in other states that recognize their own resident’s right to concealed carry;
•Allow those from constitutional carry states the ability to carry in other states that recognize their own resident’s right to concealed carry;
•Put the burden of proof clearly on the state to show that an individual carrying concealed did not comply with the law, thus protecting law-abiding gun owners from onerous civil suits;
•Provide legal protections against states that violate the intent of this bill, making attorney’s fees and damages available to victorious plaintiffs in civil suits, as well as to defendants who prevail in criminal cases; and
•Allow individuals who are carrying concealed to do so in the National Park System, National Wildlife Refuge System, and on lands administered by the Bureau of Land Management, Army Corps of Engineers and Bureau of Reclamation.
Each state retains the authority to determine regulations for carrying within their borders, as well as for the carry permits or licenses that are issued under their law.
This legislation prioritizes the rights of law-abiding citizens to concealed carry and the ability to travel freely between states without worrying about conflicting state codes.
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She may think the opposite from stuff I've heard.
https://www.votetulsi.com/node/25028
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Tulsi doesn't think civilians need guns.
She was deployed in the army yaknow.... she knows best for us peons.... Wouldn't hurt to ask though.. don't let my skepticism dissuade anyone. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :shaka:
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Tulsi doesn't think civilians need guns.
i believe i've heard her use the "i was in the military, and civilians do not need weapons of war" line before
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You all seem to forget something Untill the supreme courts rule you have a constitutional right to a firearm outside the home, This law means nothing. States can just ignore it and claim states rights.
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Here is a reply I got from a Mainland Lawyer about HR38:
"H.R. 38 allows a person to carry concealed in any state "Notwithstanding any provision of the law of any State ..." if he complies with three requirements:
(1) not prohibited by federal law,
(2) carrying a valid ID, and
(3) has a CCL or comes from a "constitutional carry" state.
We believe the "notwithstanding" language overturns any registration requirement -- or any restriction that would prevent carrying for a person meeting the law's three requirements. And, under the Supremacy Clause, we believe H.R. 38 will supersede the Hawaii law. "
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Here is a reply I got from a Mainland Lawyer about HR38:
"H.R. 38 allows a person to carry concealed in any state "Notwithstanding any provision of the law of any State ..." if he complies with three requirements:
(1) not prohibited by federal law,
(2) carrying a valid ID, and
(3) has a CCL or comes from a "constitutional carry" state.
We believe the "notwithstanding" language overturns any registration requirement -- or any restriction that would prevent carrying for a person meeting the law's three requirements. And, under the Supremacy Clause, we believe H.R. 38 will supersede the Hawaii law. "
The Supremacy Clause of the United States Constitution (Article VI, Clause 2) establishes that the Constitution, federal laws made pursuant to it, and treaties made under its authority, constitute the supreme law of the land.
As the 9th circuit has ruled that the constitution does not cover CCW, Unless SCOTUS rules otherwise, Hawaii could argue that the constitution does not give them the ability force that on them
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What will happen is that we will get to carry for 6 months b4 hawaii finds a way to block it.
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This is the part I don't like.
Ensure that valid concealed carry permits issued in one state are valid for carrying concealed handguns in other states that recognize their own resident’s right to concealed carry;
Hawaii could easily change our may issue to no issue and let the pro CC people spend months, if not years, trying to get SCOTUS to rule that law unconstitutional.
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What will happen is that we will get to carry for 6 months b4 hawaii finds a way to block it.
They'll get a preliminary injunction between the date of passage and date of implementation, thus precluding any days of lawful carry at all, because, you know, "public safety". They'll introduce all the evidence proving that Hawaii residents in particular are mentally and emotionally incompetent, as well as tourists on vacation are unusually dangerous as proved by the track record of CCW licensees in their home states (oh, wait, they're SIX TIMES less likely to commit a crime than cops). It'll be the same as the preliminary injunction Harvey and those six attorneys got against RapBack. Oh, wait...
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This is the part I don't like.
Ensure that valid concealed carry permits issued in one state are valid for carrying concealed handguns in other states that recognize their own resident’s right to concealed carry;
Hawaii could easily change our may issue to no issue and let the pro CC people spend months, if not years, trying to get SCOTUS to rule that law unconstitutional.
There is no "right" to concealed carry (read Heller). That was made clear in the Ninth Circuit by the Peruta/Richards en banc decisions. It has been made clear in other circuits and all those other concealed carry cases that appealed for cert to SCOTUS have been rejected by SCOTUS. Concealed carry is clearly a "privilege", not a right, and thus the language above is misleading, at best. The bill later specifically states that it really means: "(1) has a statute under which residents of the State may apply for a license or permit to carry a concealed firearm; or (2) does not prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms by residents of the State for lawful purposes." Clearly Hawaii qualifies under those criteria, but could simply eliminate the provisions for concealed carry and thus would no longer be subject to the national reciprocity bill as it currently is written. And, yes, it would likely be many more years trying to get Hawaii to recognize the right to open carry for self defense outside the home... unless, and it's a BIG unless, Baker or Young or Nichols succeed with their open carry claims in the Ninth. Don't recommend holding the breath on those.
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This is the part I don't like.
Ensure that valid concealed carry permits issued in one state are valid for carrying concealed handguns in other states that recognize their own resident’s right to concealed carry;
Hawaii could easily change our may issue to no issue and let the pro CC people spend months, if not years, trying to get SCOTUS to rule that law unconstitutional.
If hawaii does that than all security guards that guard cash deposits etc would lose their guns.
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If hawaii does that than all security guards that guard cash deposits etc would lose their guns.
As far as I know, all "security guards" that are armed with firerarms have open carry licenses, not concealed carry licenses. Not one single person in the state currently has a CCW license (currently waiting for the 2016 data that should be available in two weeks). So Hawaii could eliminate CCW and still arm the people "engaged in the protection of life and property" as they do now.
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She may think the opposite from stuff I've heard.
she support tracer ammunition?
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I found this recently.
http://freebeacon.com/issues/national-reciprocity-bill-will-apply-non-resident-gun-carry-permits/
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I found this recently.
http://freebeacon.com/issues/national-reciprocity-bill-will-apply-non-resident-gun-carry-permits/
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To be honest, if she didn't know the laws, she shouldn't be carrying.
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To be honest, if she didn't know the laws, she shouldn't be carrying.
That's what the police chiefs here say. AND, "If you do know the laws you shouldn't be carrying". AND, "Honestly, we don't care about the laws or your rights, if you carry you're a criminal".
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That's what the police chiefs here say. AND, "If you do know the laws you shouldn't be carrying". AND, "Honestly, we don't care about the laws or your rights, if you carry you're a criminal".
Well, before I travel anywhere with my gun, I read the states laws, airport rules, and even call the police and airline/airport just to clarify things (Nevada). Just to make sure I don't end up like that lady in the article. I'm sure she made no attempt to look up the states laws that she was traveling to.
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Well, before I travel anywhere with my gun, I read the states laws, airport rules, and even call the police and airline/airport just to clarify things (Nevada). Just to make sure I don't end up like that lady in the article. I'm sure she made no attempt to look up the states laws that she was traveling to.
When was the last time you looked up traffic laws in several states because you were going to be driving through them?
That's the point. Gun laws between states should be uniform, consistent and based on national standards. If a state decides to deviate, you then only have to learn a few deltas.
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I've seen videos of lawmakers and lawyers testify that no one can know all the laws of each individual state (laws update and there's also interpretation to consider). Plus, I firmly believe states don't have the authority to add or take away from any of our first ten amendments; otherwise secede from the union.
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When was the last time you looked up traffic laws in several states because you were going to be driving through them?
That's the point. Gun laws between states should be uniform, consistent and based on national standards. If a state decides to deviate, you then only have to learn a few deltas.
Last time i went to vegas. Needed to know if they had a cell phone law like we do...and they do.
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Last time i went to vegas. Needed to know if they had a cell phone law like we do...and they do.
What's the speed limit in a school zone in Nevada? Hospital zone? Residential neighborhood? You've likely driven there so you must know, because you wouldn't get behind the wheel of a deadly weapon without certainty of the laws regarding the operation of that vehicle..
The situation with Janeen Allen was that 1. she became a CCW licensee in Pennsylvania after she was robbed late at night when returning home from work. 2. She worked in New Jersey. She wasn't "traveling " to another state for a visit or vacation. 3. Therefore, if she chose to obey the laws of New Jersey, she wouldn't be able to have a firearm for self-defense when she returned to her home in Pennsylvania late at night after work. While she may not have known that she couldn't carry a firearm in her vehicle in New Jersey, she was opting for self-defense in case of the exact same situation when she was previously robbed upon returning to PA. You might say she inadvertently chose "12 over 6". People could argue, well she should have just gotten a job in PA instead of NJ, etc., but did you notice the condition of the economy? It was even worse than now in those years and I'm sure had she been able to get a job closer to her home in her home state she likely would have opted for that. (Similar to the anecdotal reports of people denied CCW licenses here when under perceived threat ask the denying cops "What else can I do?" and are told, apparently in all seriousness, "Move".)
Did she break the law? Yes. Should she have known what the law was? That would have been a good idea. Did she deserve (as a law-abiding citizen with no criminal history and single mother of two small children) to be put in jail for 40 days and threatened with felony prosecution? Only if you think the "letter of the law" must be adhered to and fully prosecuted in any and all circumstances without regard to extenuating circumstances. Anyone who thinks that and doesn't think Hillary Clinton should be imprisoned for life is a total hypocrite. Allen's was a victimless crime: not one single person was harmed or even threatened. Just like the people in New York who criminally load 8 rounds into their 10 round magazines thus violating the seven round maximum allowed by law. Anyone really believe that is a "crime"? Much less that it deserves costly prosecution and jail time? We're living in a world of idiots.
How about this: Who should be prosecuted and what should the sentence(s) be for illegally failing to provide Carol Bowne either her CCW license or a written denial within the period of time allowed by New Jersey law? They went over the deadline, even though she had a restraining order, and then was killed after she should have had her CCW by the person she had the TRO against. People in New Jersey government broke the law. Someone is dead, who may have survived had the bureaucrats in New Jersey followed the law. Not even a slap on the wrist...you know, like here with Kenoi and Kealoha. That's "justice"?
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Last time i went to vegas. Needed to know if they had a cell phone law like we do...and they do.
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Good, but they have a variety of signs in Nevada telling drivers that using a phone while driving is not allowed, such as:
(http://i.imgur.com/AFNAJtN.png)
They don't post similar signs for gun carry laws when you cross the border or arrive at the airport. If the laws were more uniform between states, they could post warnings for specific differences that wouldn't need to be billboard size!
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I agree with all of you that there should be uniform laws, or laws that do not restrict our 2a rights. But in the end, telling the police "I didn't know" is not an excuse. She lost her job and had to spend 40 days in Jail. Luckily Christy pardoned her. So you can spend 1 hour reading what the laws are, or get a ticket/go to jail and lose your 2a rights if it's a felony conviction.
Seems like the prosecutor wanted to make an example out of her. They could have easily chose not to file charges.
There was a previous post that HPD cannot beheld liable if a CCW permit is denied and I am harmed. Don't know if this law applies to NJ or not.
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I agree with all of you that there should be uniform laws, or laws that do not restrict our 2a rights. But in the end, telling the police "I didn't know" is not an excuse. She lost her job and had to spend 40 days in Jail. Luckily Christy pardoned her. So you can spend 1 hour reading what the laws are, or get a ticket/go to jail and lose your 2a rights if it's a felony conviction.
Seems like the prosecutor wanted to make an example out of her. They could have easily chose not to file charges.
There was a previous post that HPD cannot beheld liable if a CCW permit is denied and I am harmed. Don't know if this law applies to NJ or not.
So what is your solution to her dilemma of working in NJ and then having to return home to PA late a night where she was a victim of a robbery previously?
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So what is your solution to her dilemma of working in NJ and then having to return home to PA late a night where she was a victim of a robbery previously?
No solution, only try and use her personal experience to her representatives. But that's like talking to a wall just like here. Or buy a "big dog". :shaka:
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I agree with all of you that there should be uniform laws, or laws that do not restrict our 2a rights. But in the end, telling the police "I didn't know" is not an excuse. She lost her job and had to spend 40 days in Jail. Luckily Christy pardoned her. So you can spend 1 hour reading what the laws are, or get a ticket/go to jail and lose your 2a rights if it's a felony conviction.
Seems like the prosecutor wanted to make an example out of her. They could have easily chose not to file charges.
There was a previous post that HPD cannot beheld liable if a CCW permit is denied and I am harmed. Don't know if this law applies to NJ or not.
There is no "just do this, and it prevents all problems" answer. Case in point:
After Hurricane Sandy, utility workers and other professionals from all over volunteered to help repair the infrastructure in the areas most devastated. A NC utility worker volunteered and drove to NJ. A firearm was discovered in his truck, and he was arrested. It took the Governor to dismiss the case.
At the time he was more concerned about helping people than doing research into gun laws. Sometimes you get a call and just have to hit the road -- no time to thoroughly prepare or even think of what you should do. You just go!
http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/08/christie_says_hell_likely_pardon_gun-toting_out-of.html
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There is no "just do this, and it prevents all problems" answer. Case in point:
After Hurricane Sandy, utility workers and other professionals from all over volunteered to help repair the infrastructure in the areas most devastated. A NC utility worker volunteered and drove to NJ. A firearm was discovered in his truck, and he was arrested. It took the Governor to dismiss the case.
At the time he was more concerned about helping people than doing research into gun laws. Sometimes you get a call and just have to hit the road -- no time to thoroughly prepare or even think of what you should do. You just go!
http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/08/christie_says_hell_likely_pardon_gun-toting_out-of.html
I wish he was our governor. I hope he looks into changing NJ's laws.
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NRA Action (You have to compose your own email on this one):
Full article:
https://www.nraila.org/articles/20170113/national-concealed-carry-reciprocity-lies-and-the-lying-liars-who-tell-them
National Concealed Carry Reciprocity Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them
Email Action (generic letter requires writing particular issue, e.g. "Support H.R. 38, the Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act.") :
http://nraila-letter.org/
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This is absolutely great news and exactly what I was hoping would happen if Hudson's bill passes. That would mean I get to CC immediately with my AZ, NV and UT non resident permits in all 50 states.
http://freebeacon.com/issues/national-reciprocity-bill-will-apply-non-resident-gun-carry-permits/
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Just got off the phone with Gabbard's office in D.C. ((202) 225-4906). After a 90 second wait while the staffer went to find out, was told that re H.R. 38 "she hasn't made her mind up on that yet". I "suggested" that she support it. Then tried calling the "local representative" of her office here on the Big Island but only got the voice mail. Perhaps a few more people could call? :shaka:
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Just got off the phone with Gabbard's office in D.C. ((202) 225-4906). After a 90 second wait while the staffer went to find out, was told that re H.R. 38 "she hasn't made her mind up on that yet". I "suggested" that she support it. Then tried calling the "local representative" of her office here on the Big Island but only got the voice mail. Perhaps a few more people could call? :shaka:
Keep track of Rep. Scott Nishimoto's CCW proposal. See previous post.
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Keep track of Rep. Scott Nishimoto's CCW proposal. See previous post.
I'll be keeping track of everything that could possibly restore some of our rights, including the local CCW bills by Senator Gabbard and Representative Nishimoto. No bills have been posted yet (at least not on the official .gov website: http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2017/bills/). I'm curious to see how the Nishimoto bill differs from Gabbard's.
I'd say, as total speculation, that no local/state CCW or open carry bill has even the slightest chance of passage, likely not to get out of committee, and very likely not to even get a hearing in a committee, whereas the Hudson bill in the House of Reps in D.C. has a good chance of passing there, but not so much in the Senate... so we have a better chance in D.C., though all our Hawaii congresspeople will (almost certainly) be adamant opponents.
I'm also working on something at the county level that may or may not ever see the light of day.
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I don't think HR38 will have any problem passing in the House of Rep. It is in the Senate that it might have problems. If it passes in both, Trump will sign it. As far as Rep Nishimoto CC proposal, it doesn't have a chance. Only on a federally mandated level will HI residents be able to CC, at least in my lifetime.
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I don't think HR38 will have any problem passing in the House of Rep. It is in the Senate that it might have problems. If it passes in both, Trump will sign it. As far as Rep Nishimoto CC proposal, it doesn't have a chance. Only on a federally mandated level will HI residents be able to CC, at least in my lifetime.
Or the lifetime of anyone over the age of 2.
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See attachment for bill.
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Or the lifetime of anyone over the age of 2.
Talked to Carry Trainer in Indiana. They thought the same thing about CCW, but it went through.
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Talked to Carry Trainer in Indiana. They thought the same thing about CCW, but it went through.
Was the Indiana state senate 100% Democrats and the state House 93% Democrats at the time?
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See attachment for bill.
Wow. Shall issue concealed and open carry. Valid statewide. Five years. $50. Can't beat that. I'm guessing Espero et al. are chucking if not laughing out loud uproariously. The early version of Gabbard's bill is very long and detailed, I believe with the intention of showing that all kinds of "safeguards" are in place to prevent the oft-touted "blood in the streets" and "wild west" idiocy of the civilian disarmament advocates who conveniently ignore that they said the same thing every time any of the 44 states with "shall issue" went that way... and they were 100% wrong... again and again and again...
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Just got off the phone with Gabbard's office in D.C. ((202) 225-4906). After a 90 second wait while the staffer went to find out, was told that re H.R. 38 "she hasn't made her mind up on that yet". I "suggested" that she support it. Then tried calling the "local representative" of her office here on the Big Island but only got the voice mail. Perhaps a few more people could call? :shaka:
Called in support of HR38
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Called in support of HR38
One down, 50,403 more gun owning Hawaii households to go... :shaka:
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Was the Indiana state senate 100% Democrats and the state House 93% Democrats at the time?
Don't know, but like I mentioned, they never thought they would be able to CCW in their lifetime. But it was approved.
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I emailed Gabbard's office, I think there's a chance she'll support it due to the fact she was stalked in the past.
Horrifying Threats Against Congresswoman Tied To Obscure Hare Krishna Sect
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/horrifying-threats-against-congresswoman-tied-to-obscure-hare-krishna-sect
Man arrested for threatening to kill Hawaii lawmakers
http://www.staradvertiser.com/2016/09/16/breaking-news/man-in-tennessee-arrested-for-threats-to-gabbard-hirono/
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At least he didn't threaten to shoot her, which would have made it worse for the pro gun crowd (us). The article said his guru was Chris Butler. Chris lived only about a 1/4 mile from me when we were kids. Sold him a bicycle. Better start registering knives since he said he would cut her head off.
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Another congressman submits another bill to grant CCW to members of congress. (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/images/smilies/facepalm.gif) Why would he do that rather than just support HR38 (Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act of 2017) which he quickly mentions he is a co-sponsor of? Maybe he's thinking HR38 ain't gonna make it, but a special privilege to exercise a right for congress critters, that's a sure bet? :wtf: Since we live in a state where any person bearing a firearm outside their home for self-defense is a criminal and thus subject to arrest, prosecution, fine and incarceration, this issue should be on the radar of all citizens, especially all gun owners who want to take responsibility for their own and their family's safety. Somehow, I don't get the impression it is.
David Codrea sums it all up without mincing words:
Self-Serving Politicians’ Priorities after Scalise Shooting Deserve Strong Gun Owner Response
How is voting in special benefits for themselves first, while the rest of us are left in legislative limbo, consistent with securing “the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity”?
http://waronguns.blogspot.com/2017/06/self-serving-politicians-priorities.html
That the bill [HR38] is currently assigned a 2% prognosis for passage suggests this may once again be placating noisemaking and much ado about nothing: similar efforts have been attempted many times over the years.
That said, such legislative sausage-making is not completely without effect: It reaffirms the acceptance of government-issued “permits” to exercise rights and the undelegated power of government to bestow such approvals in the first place. The point is, if this Congress can pass a bill to “give” rights (and those quotation marks are intentional), a subsequent legislature can pass one to take them away. As the Supreme Court noted in Heller, reaffirming the opinion in Cruikshank:
“[t]his is not a right granted by the Constitution. Neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence. The Second amendment declares that it shall not be infringed … .”
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-upyq1FgXJzQ/WUnL-HN9fzI/AAAAAAAAkBo/rePU32ZyEz0QcMwLGACBJ1uyORwOdaGwACLcBGAs/s1600/ScreenHunter_04%2BJun.%2B20%2B18.57.jpg)
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I had to google it.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/c3/27/66/c3276627ca0772472d2cff5a2a24b050.jpg)
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Is that legal in Hawaii?
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Is that legal in Hawaii?
As long as barrel length over 16.5 inches, I believe
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I had to google it.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/c3/27/66/c3276627ca0772472d2cff5a2a24b050.jpg)
If the bat was a scary black color, then it would be a no go.
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Is that legal in Hawaii?
If during a routine traffic stop a LEO observes that in your vehicle you will be in serious trouble unless you can prove that you are traveling to or from a range, a hunting area, or a baseball game.
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Chance to sign a petition requesting the White House to take action on HR 38. 100,000 signatures gets a response from the White House, which I suspect, based on what Trump has said all along, and including a couple of days ago on the issue: "Hells, yes!" Started two days ago: "Needs 95,142 signatures by August 17, 2017 to get a response from the White House".
WE THE PEOPLE ASK THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO CALL ON CONGRESS TO ACT ON AN ISSUE:
National Reciprocity for the Nation's 17 Million Concealed Handgun Permit Holders!
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/national-reciprocity-nations-17-million-concealed-handgun-permit-holders
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If during a routine traffic stop a LEO observes that in your vehicle you will be in serious trouble unless you can prove that you are traveling to or from a range, a hunting area, or a baseball game.
Or bat fixer or baseball convention. Would be screwed if on the way to a soccer game or during football season.
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Chance to sign a petition requesting the White House to take action on HR 38. 100,000 signatures gets a response from the White House, which I suspect, based on what Trump has said all along, and including a couple of days ago on the issue: "Hells, yes!" Started two days ago: "Needs 95,142 signatures by August 17, 2017 to get a response from the White House".
WE THE PEOPLE ASK THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO CALL ON CONGRESS TO ACT ON AN ISSUE:
National Reciprocity for the Nation's 17 Million Concealed Handgun Permit Holders!
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/national-reciprocity-nations-17-million-concealed-handgun-permit-holders
Ok I signed.
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Signed and confirmed. Be sure to confirm by clicking on email link sent.
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As of today (Tuesday morning August 8, 2017) National Reciprocity White House petition (above):
Needs 80,844 signatures by August 17, 2017 to get a response from the White House
It's been up for three weeks, with just over a week to go, and only 19,156 have signed it out of the whole country! Either nobody cares or this is the best kept secret White House petition ever. I wonder why the NRA wouldn't promote this, not even in a separate email or mailing, but alongside whatever they were messaging anyway? Not that it matters, as we all know Trump's position on it, but it would just be another element of publicity and awareness, though I suspect anyone interested in the legal aspects of carry is well aware of the Hudson bill by now...
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People need a kick in the pants... maybe this needs to get put up on some of the busier youtube channels like MAC and IV8888. I'm going to send them a message tonight when I get home and see if they can give this some airtime on their channels. Couldn't hurt.
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As of today (Tuesday morning August 8, 2017) National Reciprocity White House petition (above):
Needs 80,844 signatures by August 17, 2017 to get a response from the White House
It's been up for three weeks, with just over a week to go, and only 19,156 have signed it out of the whole country! Either nobody cares or this is the best kept secret White House petition ever. I wonder why the NRA wouldn't promote this, not even in a separate email or mailing, but alongside whatever they were messaging anyway? Not that it matters, as we all know Trump's position on it, but it would just be another element of publicity and awareness, though I suspect anyone interested in the legal aspects of carry is well aware of the Hudson bill by now...
I remember another petition earlier this year, I think it was the mag ban in CA. But it needed 100K and only got the last 30K in 3 days prior to.
I messaged a few people on IG to get behind this. Knockoutlights, gatman, truxodus, etc...I should send the link to Schatz to sign. =P
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I've found that it's very difficult to get people to sign the online petitions even though it's so easy to do. For a good response rate you have to put in a lot of man hours to talk to people directly or shove it in their face for them to do it. Otherwise expect a less than 5% response rate, so you'll need to advertise it out to millions of people to get 100,000.
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Update today from GOA re Hudson's HR38. Auto-letter email to submit to your U.S. Rep (mine is Gabbard... and I know she'll never sign on... but what else can I do?).
https://cqrcengage.com/gunowners/app/take-action?engagementId=393613
https://cqrcengage.com/gunowners/app/write-a-letter
What happens in the next month will set the tone for the remainder of this Congress.
Let's start with Congressman Richard Hudson's groundbreaking reciprocity bill, H.R. 38. The bill now has 209 cosponsors -- and we have a promise from the Judiciary Committee Chairman to move the bill soon.
Congress is back so GOA is continuing its push to help concealed carry reciprocity move quickly.
Please urge your Representative, Rep. Tulsi Gabbard (D) [your Rep. will be entered depending on your address], to demand that House Speaker Paul Ryan immediately move Constitutional Carry reciprocity (H.R. 38).
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Unfuckingbelievable. Well, I mean totally believable that this is Ryan's position and "strategy" on national reciprocity ("No voting on national reciprocity until the Democrats regain control of both chambers and the presidency"?), but unbelievable that people keep voting these (barely qualifies as a RINO even) people in thinking they are going to do something for "us". Ryan's Republican Primary opponent in 2016 had this to say:
"During an interview with Business Insider last week, Nehlen called Ryan a "soulless globalist," yet expressed skepticism that Trump's praise would lead to his victory. Nehlen also characterized Ryan as "the most open-borders, anti-worker, pro-Wall Street member of Congress on either side."
"Paul Ryan is a soulless globalist, and he would send our jobs overseas in a heartbeat if it meant more money in his campaign coffers," he said.
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I guess that's what Ryan's district wanted, as Ryan won the primary 85% to 15%...
GOP Rep: House Majority Leader Republican Paul Ryan Will Not Let Congress Touch Concealed Carry Reciprocity
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/09/08/paul-ryan-will-not-let-congress-touch-concealed-reciprocity/
During the September 7 of Armed American Radio with Mark Walters, Rep. Thomas Massie (R-KY) said his concealed carry legislation is stalled because Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wisc.) does not want Congress to touch it.
Mark Walters asked Massie about the lack of movement on national reciprocity, and Massie said, “The Speaker told me he didn’t think the timing was right.” An exasperated Massie then added, “But this is the exact time to bring this bill. So it is frustrating for me.”
National reciprocity legislation—H.R. 38—would treat concealed carry permits like driver’s licenses, making a permit from one state valid in the other 49. Massie is the sponsor of H.R. 2909, which covers a blind spot in the national reciprocity legislation by mandating that Washington DC recognize concealed carry permits from all 50 states.
Massie continued, “Listen, I was no fan of [Speaker] John Boehner, but even under John Boehner, I was allowed to offer an amendment to the DC Appropriations Bill to defund all their gun control laws. It passed in the House. … We got all but four Republicans to vote for it and 20 Democrats voted to defund all of Washington DC’s gun control laws.”
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This is the perfect time for it. We got the votes and the president to get it passed, and Trump is in desperate need to get a major bill passed for his supporters.
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Our political system allows one person to have too much power.