2aHawaii

General Topics => Legal and Activism => Topic started by: mill8316 on January 19, 2017, 09:04:22 AM

Title: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: mill8316 on January 19, 2017, 09:04:22 AM
I figure this is suka's area of expertise. But wanted any input. Would these be legal to have/register here on Oahu?

Also what would the process/documentation be like?

And lastly does anyone know an ffl willing to bring them in if they are legal?

Here is the article:

http://www.ammoland.com/2017/01/mossberg-590-shockwave-non-nfa-pump-action/#axzz4WEfbwZwz

Any insight is appreciated. Thanks
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: mill8316 on January 19, 2017, 09:14:16 AM
I guess I should go further and say I have seen other topics here before about getting a receiver and doing similar. Including suka's stickied post above about NFA items.

I have also seen punaperson's post relating to this. But I am interested to know if I could just buy this shockwave 590 off the shelf and register it here in Honolulu without any NFA or getting arrested? And also how to get it here?

Thanks
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: changemyoil66 on January 19, 2017, 09:34:20 AM
I guess I should go further and say I have seen other topics here before about getting a receiver and doing similar. Including suka's stickied post above about NFA items.

I have also seen punaperson's post relating to this. But I am interested to know if I could just buy this shockwave 590 off the shelf and register it here in Honolulu without any NFA or getting arrested? And also how to get it here?

Thanks

According to Puna's post, HPD is okay with it, but MPD isn't.  Just to be safe, I wouldn't purchase it just yet.
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: aieahound on January 19, 2017, 09:45:06 AM
Puna's is BIPD, not MPD.

I'm curious on the OP's question too.
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: bass monkey on January 19, 2017, 10:46:47 AM
I think it would depend on how the LGS  registers it. 
If they import it and register it as a shotgun,  than you have to register it as a shotgun. 
If they import it as AOW  than you can register it the same.
I think it would be the same as AR  pistol receivers. 
Good luck getting a shop to bring it in for you the way your implying.
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: punaperson on January 19, 2017, 11:11:21 AM
According to Puna's post, HPD is okay with it, but MPD isn't.  Just to be safe, I wouldn't purchase it just yet.
To be clear: 1. Hawaii County PD has definitely ruled that configuration "illegal"; 2. The information that HPD determined that configuration to be legal in the past was secondhand information. (I hesitated about opening the potential "can of worms" here on the Big Island because I figured that there would be communications between the departments and county counsels and the AG's office.) I wrote HPD several times asking for a clear statement of their policy regarding that configuration of a BATFE classified "firearm" and they have never responded to me. I didn't bother calling them on the phone because whoever you are talking to may or may not know what they are talking about, and the typical response may not be informed (see my post re the local BATFE agent's declaration that "That's illegal" (by BATFE standards)).

If the OP has the time and inclination I'd suggest you go into firearms registration with all the pictures and data you can assemble (including copies of the BATFE determination letters), ask to speak to the highest ranking supervisor who makes decisions about legality of firearms, and ask him. If he say it's legal, ask for some documentation from the HPD, and then you'd have to (possibly) educate a dealer about the section of the 4473 regarding "firearm" if they aren't already familiar with the issue (though I suspect that now that Mossberg has gone into production that most dealers are aware of the situation).

Anyone who undertakes this project on Oahu (or elsewhere in Hawaii), please post your experience! Thanks.  :shaka:
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: London808 on January 19, 2017, 11:14:40 AM
In Hawaii by law it's a pistol.  You guys put to much weight on what the police say. They do not make that determination, Their determination is an opinion, not law.
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: punaperson on January 19, 2017, 11:29:22 AM
In Hawaii by law it's a pistol.  You guys put to much weight on what the police say. They do not make that determination, Their determination is an opinion, not law.
Whatever the true legal status of their "opinion", I was told that should I bring such a configured firearm to be registered that it would be confiscated as "illegal" (they didn't say if I would be arrested for any violation(s), and I didn't ask). As I stated in the other thread, not having the means to successfully wage a lawsuit, I declined the encounter.
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: mill8316 on January 19, 2017, 02:05:20 PM
I definitely don't plan on being the trailblazer on this one. I think I will wait too one of the braver, richer and more law studied people tries it first.

I just wanted to see people's opinions and see if anyone had any Info or experience on this topic, or specific evidence for or against it.
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: eyeeatingfish on January 19, 2017, 09:13:55 PM
Whatever the true legal status of their "opinion", I was told that should I bring such a configured firearm to be registered that it would be confiscated as "illegal" (they didn't say if I would be arrested for any violation(s), and I didn't ask). As I stated in the other thread, not having the means to successfully wage a lawsuit, I declined the encounter.

The problem lies in the fact that there is no state definition of what a shotgun is. It is by definition of Hawaii state law a pistol but that doesn't mean they won't say it is also a shotgun.  I don't think they have grounds to do that but when the law is unclear they tend to treat on our rights.

One of the gun stores is working back and forth with HPD when I last talked to him a few days ago. If he is successful I think he will post it on his store page here.
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: Heavies on January 19, 2017, 09:59:44 PM
In the past a questionable item would get inspected by the local ATF office, then they make the determination.  Per readings from SUKA. If they give you trouble you may have to sue.  They can do illegal shit, you cannot.   >:(
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: whynow? on January 19, 2017, 10:10:09 PM
Regardless of the designation in HI, that looks like a wrist breaker to me  :shake:   Maybe i'm just getting old.
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: Heavies on January 19, 2017, 10:17:40 PM
I think it would be pretty cool with those Aguila mini shells.   Supposedly you can fit 9 or 10 of them in there with an adapter.

(http://cdn.net.outdoorhub.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2015/12/outdoorhub--2015-12-02_00-01-38.jpg)
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: mill8316 on January 20, 2017, 12:11:24 AM
Regardless of the designation in HI, that looks like a wrist breaker to me  :shake:   Maybe i'm just getting old.

I was planning on only using 3" slugs... Nah nah. Jk. I was thinking about going the heavies route and trying it with the Aguila mini shells.
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: changemyoil66 on January 20, 2017, 10:08:48 AM
I was planning on only using 3" slugs... Nah nah. Jk. I was thinking about going the heavies route and trying it with the Aguila mini shells.

Only Cyberdine Systems Model T-101 can fire that with 1 hand from a motorcycle.
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: eyeeatingfish on January 23, 2017, 10:00:41 AM
Can you put a pistol grip on it? I sometimes shoot a shotgun one handed with the pistol grip.
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: Heavies on January 23, 2017, 03:05:11 PM
Can you put a pistol grip on it? I sometimes shoot a shotgun one handed with the pistol grip.

Can not, because the OAL will then be too short and it'll become a different category of weapon.
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: punaperson on January 23, 2017, 04:02:26 PM
Can not, because the OAL will then be too short and it'll become a different category of weapon.
Not only that, but if you were to make your own, via modification, you must 1. start with a Pistol-Grip-Only shotgun (that is a BATFE legal designation and so marked at the factory), and then 2. remove the pistol grip handle and attach the bird handle grip PRIOR to sawing off the excess barrel length, in order to always maintain at least that minimum length. To do it in reverse order makes you a criminal! AND you cannot allow a regular shoulder stock to even touch (much less install onto) the firearm once the pistol grip has been removed because doing so invalidates the Pistol-Grip-Only status and it can never go back to being a Pistol-Grip-only firearm! You can't make up shit like that! We have to pretend that these laws are "rational" or "logical"? PUH-leeeeese! I imagine some prankster at the Mossberg factory assembly line every day (when no one is looking) pulling a shoulder stock out of his backpack and quickly touching every gun before him, thus creating all illegal weapons to be sent out to unsuspecting buyers, and unbeknownst to all the would-be BATFE enforcers. Crazy, man!
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: RSN172 on January 23, 2017, 04:55:13 PM
I would like to get one of those and keep it loaded with buckshot mini shells.
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: punaperson on February 02, 2017, 11:15:11 AM
Could anyone on Oahu, where they have supposedly been registered, or any other island please provide me with either 1. documentation that such a weapon (pistol grip, overall length greater than 26", barrel 14" (or anything under 18"), fires shotgun shells) has been registered (feel free to redact any personal information), and/or 2. any documentation or anecdotes about inquiring into the legality of such a firearm and the response of any Hawaii Police Department (especially Honolulu)?

I'd appreciate it.  :shaka:

Example:

Mossberg 590 Shockwave

(https://gastatic.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Screen-Shot-2017-01-30-at-1.32.20-PM.png)
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: bass monkey on February 02, 2017, 11:28:48 AM
I think it would depend on how the LGS first registered it. 
If they registered it as a shotgun,  I don't believe you can show up at HPD and register it as something else. 
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: punaperson on February 02, 2017, 11:43:40 AM
I think it would depend on how the LGS first registered it. 
If they registered it as a shotgun,  I don't believe you can show up at HPD and register it as something else.
I'd hope that any FFL bringing one in even without it being specifically ordered by a customer would be aware of the issues and record it properly. I mean, Mossberg's whole advertising campaign is based around the fact that it is NOT a "shotgun" (nor an "AOW") according to BATFE standards and rules, and thus one would think that any LGS would know that and act accordingly. If the LGS called their local PD firearms registration office and was told either "yes" or "no" I'd like someone to tell me. I know here on the Big Island the answer is "no", so no LGS would order one either for their stock or by special order from a customer. I'm hoping someone can provide documentation of registration from HPD (as I've anecdotally heard). HPD will not respond to my questions, nor will the AG's office.
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: SWHunter on February 04, 2017, 04:29:20 PM
Any word on this?
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: punaperson on February 04, 2017, 05:11:24 PM
Any word on this?
Nothing so far, but I just posted the request for info two days ago. I'm hoping that someone on Oahu will ask about it when they actually go in there to register a firearm or just to chat, you know, about Rap Back or something. Be great if they could get an answer in writing rather than just verbal, because that amounts to "hearsay". A really "thorough" approach would be to go in there with a written page that asked "Is this firearm legal, or not, to register here in the city and county of Honolulu?" Have the stats (overall length, barrel length, caliber, etc. of the Mossberg page) of the firearm on there, like the Mossberg 590, and maybe even a photo of it. Room for the person to sign and state their official position in the department.
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: senojeelnodnarb on March 03, 2017, 07:22:58 AM
I think it would be pretty cool with those Aguila mini shells.   Supposedly you can fit 9 or 10 of them in there with an adapter.

(http://cdn.net.outdoorhub.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2015/12/outdoorhub--2015-12-02_00-01-38.jpg)

I can fit a ton in my 500 w/ mag ext. they don't feed right in my 590, 500, 88, or 930. 1/2 the time they leave the tube and spin backwards, sideways, or catawampus. they're a bad ass concept though
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 03, 2017, 09:13:09 AM
I can fit a ton in my 500 w/ mag ext. they don't feed right in my 590, 500, 88, or 930. 1/2 the time they leave the tube and spin backwards, sideways, or catawampus. they're a bad ass concept though

Saw an IG video of a guy testing these out and they had feeding problems.  I don't remember what shotty he was using.  But every pump there was a jam.
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: Heavies on March 03, 2017, 11:39:43 PM
I can fit a ton in my 500 w/ mag ext. they don't feed right in my 590, 500, 88, or 930. 1/2 the time they leave the tube and spin backwards, sideways, or catawampus. they're a bad ass concept though

Read that this work for shorter shells including the mini.  Anyone ever tried it?

https://smile.amazon.com/OPSol-Mini-Clip/dp/B01F5REBUM?_encoding=UTF8&keywords=OPSol%20Mini-Clip&qid=1463514887&ref_=sr_1_1&sr=8-1
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: senojeelnodnarb on March 04, 2017, 08:20:56 AM
Read that this work for shorter shells including the mini.  Anyone ever tried it?

https://smile.amazon.com/OPSol-Mini-Clip/dp/B01F5REBUM?_encoding=UTF8&keywords=OPSol%20Mini-Clip&qid=1463514887&ref_=sr_1_1&sr=8-1
It might work, but then you could only use the minis until you took it out. Not sure if reg size shells will feed.  Everyone loves pumps actions because of their solid reliability. I think that the mini slugs compromise that

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: Heavies on March 04, 2017, 09:09:10 AM
It might work, but then you could only use the minis until you took it out. Not sure if reg size shells will feed.  Everyone loves pumps actions because of their solid reliability. I think that the mini slugs compromise that

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


I think it snaps in and out easily.  Shouldn't be an issue for those that want a lower power solution for ammunition.   

I don't have a pump gun, so I dunno.  YMMV
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 07, 2017, 10:43:50 AM
Jhara sells the mini shells

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: mill8316 on April 07, 2017, 03:22:32 PM
Any updates. I know someone said that a local shop was looking at bringing these in. Can anyone elaborate on what shop that was? So that I can talk to them directly
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: punaperson on April 07, 2017, 04:48:13 PM
Any updates. I know someone said that a local shop was looking at bringing these in. Can anyone elaborate on what shop that was? So that I can talk to them directly
I haven't heard a thing. Don't know what shop that might have been (I'm on the Big Island). Hawaii County PD gave me a definitive "NO", and Honolulu PD never answered my inquiry about whether they considered it legal or not. Since there was a claim that at least one had been registered on Oahu some time ago (with BATFE agents confirming that it was federally legal), I hope someone gets around to asking them (the highest ranking firearms registration official available) in person.
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: suka on April 07, 2017, 05:48:22 PM
Prime Sports
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: mill8316 on April 07, 2017, 06:27:59 PM
Thanks suka. I will follow up with Henry. Prime sports and Duane at danger close are my main guys I go to now.
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: suka on April 07, 2017, 06:35:37 PM
HPD being very quiet on this,,,,,,,
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: OGC on April 24, 2017, 09:07:13 PM
 We sent an inquiry into HPD as well as we have the new Remington TAC 14s on order. 
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: bass monkey on April 24, 2017, 09:09:55 PM
Hopefully they respond back to you
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: suka on April 24, 2017, 09:13:54 PM
They won't reply and has remained quiet about this,  even when the local ATF office has confirmed these are NOT NFA on ATF letterhead!

They HPD had affirmed that any firearm that specifically shots shot shells are shotguns regardless. Even when NO such definition are found nor defined!


Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: punaperson on April 25, 2017, 05:49:34 AM
They won't reply and has remained quiet about this,  even when the local ATF office has confirmed these are NOT NFA on ATF letterhead!

They HPD had affirmed that any firearm that specifically shots shot shells are shotguns regardless. Even when NO such definition are found nor defined!
When I went through the lengthy process of getting an answer on this from the Hilo office (after providing them with three separate rulings by BATFE that the firearm in question was NOT a shotgun) I was first told "If it shoots a shotgun shell, it is a shotgun". I asked them where that legal definition existed in HRS. They gave me no answer. I then asked about a Taurus Judge model revolver chambered for .410 bore shot shells and the .45 Colt cartridge and why, since that shoots shotgun shells, they register it as a pistol when they just told me a definition that means it's clearly a shotgun (and one that's WAY too short!). They then made up a new definition/rule/law: "If it fires shotgun shells exclusively, then it's a shotgun." So if someone modified an .410 shotgun by shortening it and so it would fire .45 Colt cartridges, that firearm would be legal according to the Hawaii County "interpretation" (aka "made up shit") of the law, but it would NOT be legal by BATFE standards since you can't "modify" (make shorter) an ordinary (manufactured as full length) shotgun into a "firearm". I'm sure confronted with this possibility the county would just make up more shit, but at that point I gave up because it's clear they can do and say and make up anything they want to and all we can do is get arrested and go to jail for not following the shit they make up.  :crazy:
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: Heavies on April 25, 2017, 10:00:38 AM
When I went through the lengthy process of getting an answer on this from the Hilo office (after providing them with three separate rulings by BATFE that the firearm in question was NOT a shotgun) I was first told "If it shoots a shotgun shell, it is a shotgun". I asked them where that legal definition existed in HRS. They gave me no answer. I then asked about a Taurus Judge model revolver chambered for .410 bore shot shells and the .45 Colt cartridge and why, since that shoots shotgun shells, they register it as a pistol when they just told me a definition that means it's clearly a shotgun (and one that's WAY too short!). They then made up a new definition/rule/law: "If it fires shotgun shells exclusively, then it's a shotgun." So if someone modified an .410 shotgun by shortening it and so it would fire .45 Colt cartridges, that firearm would be legal according to the Hawaii County "interpretation" (aka "made up shit") of the law, but it would NOT be legal by BATFE standards since you can't "modify" (make shorter) an ordinary (manufactured as full length) shotgun into a "firearm". I'm sure confronted with this possibility the county would just make up more shit, but at that point I gave up because it's clear they can do and say and make up anything they want to and all we can do is get arrested and go to jail for not following the shit they make up.  :crazy:

I don't think they would arrest you, because they have no case.  They may confiscate the firearm, in which case you have to sue them to get it back.  Costs money, but it would be a win, they would look like the fool, and they'll be forced to comply with the law as written.
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: 2aHawaii on April 25, 2017, 10:48:40 AM
When I went through the lengthy process of getting an answer on this from the Hilo office (after providing them with three separate rulings by BATFE that the firearm in question was NOT a shotgun) I was first told "If it shoots a shotgun shell, it is a shotgun". I asked them where that legal definition existed in HRS. They gave me no answer. I then asked about a Taurus Judge model revolver chambered for .410 bore shot shells and the .45 Colt cartridge and why, since that shoots shotgun shells, they register it as a pistol when they just told me a definition that means it's clearly a shotgun (and one that's WAY too short!). They then made up a new definition/rule/law: "If it fires shotgun shells exclusively, then it's a shotgun." So if someone modified an .410 shotgun by shortening it and so it would fire .45 Colt cartridges, that firearm would be legal according to the Hawaii County "interpretation" (aka "made up shit") of the law, but it would NOT be legal by BATFE standards since you can't "modify" (make shorter) an ordinary (manufactured as full length) shotgun into a "firearm". I'm sure confronted with this possibility the county would just make up more shit, but at that point I gave up because it's clear they can do and say and make up anything they want to and all we can do is get arrested and go to jail for not following the shit they make up.  :crazy:

If you want to continue to play games with them, "shotguns" don't only shoot shot shells (http://www.gunadapters.com/).
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: punaperson on April 25, 2017, 01:37:03 PM
I don't think they would arrest you, because they have no case.  They may confiscate the firearm, in which case you have to sue them to get it back.  Costs money, but it would be a win, they would look like the fool, and they'll be forced to comply with the law as written.
Confiscation without arrest is a likely scenario. I'd love to sue them, but don't have the requisite legal knowledge, nor the funds to hire a specialist attorney, nor have I had any success in finding an attorney to take the case pro bono. As with my inquiries into the Kauai PD illegally issuing their two CCW licenses for terms other than the mandated one year, I also filed an Office of Information Practices (OIP) official request (Hawaii's version of the federal Freedom of Information Act) for all information in the possession of HPD (Hawaii County PD) as well as any and all information held by anyone they consulted with on the issue (they told me at one point they couldn't answer until they consulted County Counsel and/or the Attorney General's office). HPD claimed that everything was "attorney client privileged" and thus they would provide me nothing to allow us to see exactly how they arrived at their (various and changing) "conclusions"/"interpretations" about what the law says where, or how they made up arrived at their opinion without there being anything in the actual law to support it. The Attorney General's office responded similarly saying all that info was "attorney-client privileged".  I then filed appeals through OIP and nothing happened (they ignored the 10 day time limit for responding). When I finally contacted the "aid" at OIP she said there was nothing more they could do, and that the only option to move forward was to file a lawsuit. Good thing all these Democrat bureaucrats and politicians are so enamored of "transparency and accountability"... imagine what things would be like if they weren't!
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: mill8316 on April 25, 2017, 11:53:35 PM
I really hope that having prime sports and ogc both inquiring with Hpd/AG will help actually get an answer out of them. I am already on the call list and I will be ordering one as soon as the shops get the OK to bring them in.
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: punaperson on April 26, 2017, 07:40:07 AM
I really hope that having prime sports and ogc both inquiring with Hpd/AG will help actually get an answer out of them. I am already on the call list and I will be ordering one as soon as the shops get the OK to bring them in.
Yeah, answers would be good. To see the actual discussions that led to those answers would be even better (I want to hear the "Oh shit. What are we going to do? We have to come up with some way to make this illegal." phone messages/calls between the cops and the lawyers...)

In the course of pursuing answers from Hawaii (County) PD I wrote HPD (Honolulu) several times asking them to state their policy, and if the "story" was true that they had registered at least one of these firearms there in the past. Never heard a single word back from them. I thought about filing the OIP paperwork, but since my experiences with Kauai PD and HPD (Hawaii county) were that they just ignore the requests/appeals and/or claim all the information/documents is "attorney-client privileged" that it would yield nothing... maybe I was wrong the they would have provided something useful. One of the "justifications" for the stonewalling lengthy delays (March to November 2016) in the Hawaii county OIP case was that they "needed to make sure that the laws are consistent throughout the state" (I had mentioned that anecdotally HPD had registered such a weapon). They eventually informed me that such "firearms" were "illegal shotguns" and thus had determined that either 1. no such firearm had ever been registered on Oahu, and/or 2. If one was, they were going to still make them illegal in Hawaii county and thus create inconsistency in state law interpretations. I talked to a local (Big Island) BATFE agent would said it was his belief that each county police chief was free to have his own personal interpretation of any and all the laws regarding firearms, and thus each county could lawfully have different interpretations and "rules" about everything, including whether or not said firearm was a shotgun or what constituted "an exceptional case" for issuing a CCW license, etc.

I don't think these people have the slightest interest in either "transparency" nor honesty.
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: changemyoil66 on April 26, 2017, 09:12:04 AM
If I ever hit the mega bucks, I'll donate a some cash for an attorney to help get our 2a rights back.
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: punaperson on April 28, 2017, 06:26:10 AM
Received an email from Egunner today auctioning off a Mossberg 590 from Hickock45. Note on the website:  ***WE ARE CURRENTLY NOT SHIPPING THIS FIREARM TO TX. OH, CA, NY, NJ, MA, or MD***

No mention of Hawaii... but mainland firearms dealers (and owners and gun bloggers and reporters) often don't have a clue what's going on here. So we are once again part of the elite six states that violate the Second Amendment-guaranteed rights of their citizens with impunity on a daily basis. What I can't figure out is whys the hell is Texas in there? I mean, I know the Republicans are blocking constitutional carry this year, but...  :wtf:. Same with Ohio, they have pretty good laws otherwise.

http://www.egunner.com/auction_details.php?auction_id=8025493&utm_source=email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=EGUNH45042717
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: mill8316 on May 14, 2017, 04:57:22 AM
"At this time"

Hopefully they hurry up and make a ruling in our favor.

https://mobile.twitter.com/OGCTACTICAL/status/863521045310865408
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: OGC on May 14, 2017, 10:14:58 AM
 We received a shockwave into the store and we're in formed by HPD at this time they are only willing to register it to a law enforcement officer.  Further deliberation is ongoing
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: Heavies on May 14, 2017, 11:13:16 AM
We received a shockwave into the store and we're in formed by HPD at this time they are only willing to register it to a law enforcement officer.  Further deliberation is ongoing
Lol. What makes it legal for a LE, yet not for a citizen?  Too much...
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: punaperson on May 14, 2017, 11:19:38 AM
Lol. What makes it legal for a LE, yet not for a citizen?  Too much...
In most states with restrictive possession laws law enforcement supports (testifies for) the legislation/laws as long as there is a "carve out" exemption that allows the cops to own the weapons. That's how they roll. The "only ones". Since the stats clearly show that  they commit more crimes than licensed "civilian" carriers it is another example of total bullshit.
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: suka on May 14, 2017, 06:07:48 PM
We received a shockwave into the store and we're in formed by HPD at this time they are only willing to register it to a law enforcement officer.  Further deliberation is ongoing

They don't want to open a can of worms on NFA AOW to come.

As everyone knows ; AOW's does not require a 5320.20 to cross State lines and certain types are NOT prohibited by name to own  in Hawaii.

Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: aieahound on May 14, 2017, 07:09:29 PM
Thanks for the update OGC.

I don't get the law enforcement only loophole on this one either.  ???
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: punaperson on May 15, 2017, 06:15:01 AM
Thanks for the update OGC.

I don't get the law enforcement only loophole on this one either.  ???
There is no "law enforcement only loophole". They're just making shit up.

I could be 100% wrong. I'd write and ask them to cite the HRS statute that is the basis for their assertion, but they never bother to even acknowledge my question, much less answer it.
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: aieahound on May 15, 2017, 08:32:23 AM
There is no "law enforcement only loophole". They're just making shit up.

That's probably why I don't get it.
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: changemyoil66 on May 15, 2017, 09:13:36 AM
There is no "law enforcement only loophole". They're just making shit up.

I could be 100% wrong. I'd write and ask them to cite the HRS statute that is the basis for their assertion, but they never bother to even acknowledge my question, much less answer it.

Is it not part of the same law that allows them to have more than 10rd mags and tazers and stuff like that?
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: punaperson on May 15, 2017, 09:55:55 AM
Is it not part of the same law that allows them to have more than 10rd mags and tazers and stuff like that?
Yeah, you're right, since I guess they will deem this a "short barreled shotgun" (or anything that is illegal for you and I to possess), and the "only ones" are exempted from any limitations via HRS §134-11:  Exemptions to HRS 134-7 to 134-9, including  ... (they can have, and do, whatever they want... I wonder how many legally have a garage full of hand grenades, bombs, dynamite and a cannon or two?):

§134-8  Ownership, etc., of automatic firearms, silencers, etc., prohibited; penalties.  (a)  The manufacture, possession, sale, barter, trade, gift, transfer, or acquisition of any of the following is prohibited:  assault pistols, except as provided by section 134-4(e); automatic firearms; rifles with barrel lengths less than sixteen inches; shotguns with barrel lengths less than eighteen inches; cannons; mufflers, silencers, or devices for deadening or muffling the sound of discharged firearms; hand grenades, dynamite, blasting caps, bombs, or bombshells, or other explosives; or any type of ammunition or any projectile component thereof coated with teflon or any other similar coating designed primarily to enhance its capability to penetrate metal or pierce protective armor; and any type of ammunition or any projectile component thereof designed or intended to explode or segment upon impact with its target.
     (b)  Any person who installs, removes, or alters a firearm part with the intent to convert the firearm to an automatic firearm shall be deemed to have manufactured an automatic firearm in violation of subsection (a).
     (c)  The manufacture, possession, sale, barter, trade, gift, transfer, or acquisition of detachable ammunition magazines with a capacity in excess of ten rounds which are designed for or capable of use with a pistol is prohibited.  This subsection shall not apply to magazines originally designed to accept more than ten rounds of ammunition which have been modified to accept no more than ten rounds and which are not capable of being readily restored to a capacity of more than ten rounds.
     (d)  Any person violating subsection (a) or (b) shall be guilty of a class C felony and shall be imprisoned for a term of five years without probation.  Any person violating subsection (c) shall be guilty of a misdemeanor except when a detachable magazine prohibited under this section is possessed while inserted into a pistol in which case the person shall be guilty of a class C felony. [L 1988, c 275, pt of §2; am L 1989, c 261, §6 and c 263, §4; am L 1992, c 286, §§3, 4]
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: punaperson on May 15, 2017, 10:14:46 AM
In an interesting "coincidence" to my post above, David Codrea just posted this article...

http://waronguns.blogspot.com/2017/05/were-only-ones-off-roster-enough.html

We're the Only Ones Off Roster Enough

“In some instances, ATF has discovered officers who purchased more than 100 “off roster” firearms that were subsequently transferred to non-law enforcement individuals,” Harden continued. “Such transactions potentially constitute violations of federal firearms laws, to include dealing firearms without a FFL, and lying on a federal firearms form when purchasing said firearm — also known as “straw purchasing.” [http://www.insidesocal.com/sgvcrime/2017/04/13/atf-warns-growing-trend-illegal-gun-dealing-cops/]

Gee, special privileges lead to a sense of entitlement that the rules don't apply. Who knew?
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: punaperson on June 13, 2017, 01:13:15 PM
Mossberg 590 on sale for $390. Won't ship to Texas or Ohio. Did something change here in Hawaii, or is PSA just out of the loop thus far?

Palmetto State Armory (PSA): http://palmettostatearmory.com/mossberg-590-shockwave-12ga-shotgun-50659.html?trk_msg=K72JM5DGPHP4B8BLCUER58ULTS&trk_contact=GL1TQMU3KON6F4J39QEPV9CPJK&trk_sid=T1ILCKQ286CL828EM9QRGIFI80&utm_source=Listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=http%3a%2f%2fpalmettostatearmory.com%2fmossberg-590-shockwave-12ga-shotgun-50659.html&utm_campaign=Daily+Deal+Email&utm_content=5%3a00+Email

(http://palmettostatearmory.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/370x370/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/5/2/52251_2.jpg)

MOSSBERG 590 SHOCKWAVE 12GA SHOTGUN - 50659
1 Review | Add Your Review
IN STOCK

Normally: $434.99

Sale:  $389.99
Qty:1

ADD TO CART
SKU: 52251
UPC: 015813506595
MFR#: 50659
Gauge: 12
Capacity: 6
Action: Pump
Barrel Type: Heavy-Walled
Barrel Length: 14"
Sight: Bead
Choke: Cylinder Bore
Barrel Finish: Matte Blued
Grip: Shockwave Raptor Bird's Head-style Pistol Grip
Weight: 5.25 lbs
Length: 26.37"
Not For Sale for Residents of Texas or Ohio
Title: Re: New from mossberg. Hawaii legal?
Post by: changemyoil66 on June 13, 2017, 06:15:52 PM
Probably out of the loop. I tried to order ammo from islandview and their exclusions doesnt list hawaii...guess what, hawaiis a no go

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