2aHawaii

General Topics => Legal and Activism => Topic started by: punaperson on January 19, 2017, 12:31:16 PM

Title: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: punaperson on January 19, 2017, 12:31:16 PM
From the usual assholes suspects. These assholes public servants never give up:

Oh, and while it appears your currently owned weapons may INITIALLY be grandfathered in, not in the long run:

"(j) The permit to acquire a firearm shall be renewed every five years during the ownership of the firearm and shall require continued proof of coverage under a firearms insurance policy as required by chapter   ."

[I think they mean "firearms registration document", but what do I know? Well, except that I no longer have any permits to acquire from [edit] handguns I previously acquired, so it would be difficult to renew them... and why would I since I have already acquired them? Friggin' idiots!]

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=SB&billnumber=9&year=2017

SB9      

Measure Title:   RELATING TO FIREARMS INSURANCE.
Report Title:    Firearms Insurance; DCCA; DPS
Description:    Requires firearms owners to obtain firearms insurance. Requires DCCCA, with the assistance of DPS, to create a firearms insurance program. Creates special fund for administrative fees. Effective 1/1/2019.
    
Introducer(s):   GREEN, S. CHANG, K. RHOADS, Ruderman
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: macsak on January 19, 2017, 12:34:37 PM
From the usual assholes suspects. These assholes public servants never give up:

Oh, and while it appears your currently owned weapons may INITIALLY be grandfathered in, not in the long run:

"(j) The permit to acquire a firearm shall be renewed every five years during the ownership of the firearm and shall require continued proof of coverage under a firearms insurance policy as required by chapter   ."

[I think they mean "firearms registration document", but what do I know? Well, except that I no longer have any permits to acquire from firearms I previously acquired, so it would be difficult to renew them... and why would I since I have already acquired them? Friggin' idiots!]

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=SB&billnumber=9&year=2017

SB9      

Measure Title:   RELATING TO FIREARMS INSURANCE.
Report Title:    Firearms Insurance; DCCA; DPS
Description:    Requires firearms owners to obtain firearms insurance. Requires DCCCA, with the assistance of DPS, to create a firearms insurance program. Creates special fund for administrative fees. Effective 1/1/2019.
    
Introducer(s):   GREEN, S. CHANG, K. RHOADS, Ruderman

fricking little weasel s chang
oops, did i say that out loud?
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: punaperson on January 19, 2017, 12:40:45 PM
fricking little weasel s chang
oops, did i say that out loud?
Are you implying that swapping out Sam Slom for Stanley Chang may not have been in our best interests?  :crazy:
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: macsak on January 19, 2017, 12:49:46 PM
Are you implying that swapping out Sam Slom for Stanley Chang may not have been in our best interests?  :crazy:

i told that little shit that i wasn't voting for him because he wrote an "assault magazine" ban bill while on the city council, so he obviously has no knowledge of firearms nor the second amendment
he told me he has been to the range and supports the second amendment
i just shook my head
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: punaperson on January 19, 2017, 12:57:20 PM
i told that little shit that i wasn't voting for him because he wrote an "assault magazine" ban bill while on the city council, so he obviously has no knowledge of firearms nor the second amendment
he told me he has been to the range and supports the second amendment
i just shook my head
I dare ya to find me one single civilian disarmament advocate who is actively involved in a position of influence (legislator, Bloomberg organization officers, Brady, VPC, lobbyists, etc.) that doesn't state out front that they "support the Second Amendment". I put it that way because there are a few communists progressives who leave online comments here and there and tell the truth about wanting to take all the guns from everyone and that the Constitution is just an old piece of parchment.
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: changemyoil66 on January 19, 2017, 01:06:05 PM
I dare ya to find me one single civilian disarmament advocate who is actively involved in a position of influence (legislator, Bloomberg organization officers, Brady, VPC, lobbyists, etc.) that doesn't state out front that they "support the Second Amendment". I put it that way because there are a few communists progressives who leave online comments here and there and tell the truth about wanting to take all the guns from everyone and that the Constitution is just an old piece of parchment.

I would respect them more if they were truthful and just said "I don't like guns". Vs.  " I support he 2a, but...".

Well I got my NRA insurance policy, but  knowing how our state works, that won't be sufficient coverage.

We should ask S. Chang, why the need for insurance?  Car insurance yes, because there are hundreds of accidents every few days.  How many AD or firearm injuries are there?  What this bill would do is paint a target on gun owners, criminals know we would have insurance and its no loss if they get shot or steal from us.  Either way, they would get a payout.  Most carriers settle.
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: punaperson on January 19, 2017, 01:12:52 PM
We should ask S. Chang, why the need for insurance?  Car insurance yes, because there are hundreds of accidents every few days.  How many AD or firearm injuries are there?
Please, you don't really believe for one second that this proposal is data driven do you? Yeah, let's see the data for the past 10 years on uninsured gun owner incidents. Then let's compare that number to the number of citizens outside their homes who were lawfully forbidden to carry a firearm for self-defense who were harmed by criminals. They are not seeking to solve "a problem", unless the problem is defined as "too many law-abiding citizens have too many guns".
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: ren on January 19, 2017, 01:23:46 PM
WTF?!

don't like that mongoose S. Chang.

Hawaii Kai has Fallen.
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: zippz on January 19, 2017, 02:11:12 PM
Its as if they saw a ranking of Antigun states with new York, California, and maryland in the lead, then said we should be #1.
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: MuffinMan on January 19, 2017, 02:19:41 PM
Looks like another money grab too.....


Measure Title:   RELATING TO FIREARMS INSURANCE.
Report Title:    Firearms Insurance; DCCA; DPS
Description:    Requires firearms owners to obtain firearms insurance. Requires DCCCA, with the assistance of DPS, to create a firearms insurance program. Creates special fund for administrative fees. Effective 1/1/2019.
   
Introducer(s):   GREEN, S. CHANG, K. RHOADS, Ruderman
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: ren on January 19, 2017, 02:28:22 PM
I hope this includes LEOs as they use their firearms more frequently compared to us regular citizens
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: punaperson on January 19, 2017, 02:43:38 PM
I have some questions about the mechanics of renewal. Will they send you a notice of fee due, like car registration fees, or do you just have to take responsibility without notification and show up at the police station prior to expiration to show your proof of insurance and pay the renewal fee? What about all the firearms you buy on different dates, will each firearm have a different 5 year expiration date (the bill does use the singular term "the firearm") and you will get a notice or have to make an appearance to show proof of insurance for each firearm on each 5 year term of expiration and pay the enrollment fee again for each firearm?

What happens if you ignore the notification of expiration and/or just don't show up on your own to show proof of insurance and pay the fee? It's not like a car without a sticker on the bumper and the cops can see you on the road. It seems the only option would be to issue a search warrant and go to the home (where there will likely shortly be another bill requiring "safe storage" with storage location required) and confiscate all firearms until proof of insurance is provided. I can only imagine what the "storage and administrative cost recovery fees" will be for that process!

I don't know about you, but I certainly feel as if "public safety" will be greatly enhanced by this bill!  :crazy: Friggin' idiots!
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: aieahound on January 19, 2017, 03:43:25 PM
Homeowners or renters insurance provides the insurance coverage they're talking about.

They should be more worried about golfer's insurance.
Errant golf balls are much more prevalent and dangerous to person and property.

This is stupid and unnecessary.
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: RSN172 on January 19, 2017, 04:23:34 PM
I hope this includes LEOs as they use their firearms more frequently compared to us regular citizens
Yes.  I can remember 3 negligent discharges by LEOs without even thinking about it, one which killed the LEO.  On the other hand, I can't think of any by John Q Citizen.  Also insurance does not cover acts during the comission of a crime, so gun insurance won't help the innocent bystander who gets shot during a hold up. 

Stupid bill by stupid people, but I bet it gets a hearing and voted on.
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: ren on January 19, 2017, 04:32:10 PM
Homeowners or renters insurance provides the insurance coverage they're talking about.

They should be more worried about golfer's insurance.
Errant golf balls are much more prevalent and dangerous to person and property.

This is stupid and unnecessary.

funny you mentioned golf
Co worker had stitches above his eye because he was hit with a golf ball. He could've been blinded. Well, apparently he found out the hard way not to stand in front of a golfer...like a firearms range
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: changemyoil66 on January 19, 2017, 05:51:39 PM
Homeowners or renters insurance provides the insurance coverage they're talking about.

They should be more worried about golfer's insurance.
Errant golf balls are much more prevalent and dangerous to person and property.

This is stupid and unnecessary.
Depends on the carrier. Island insurance doesnt cover any kind of disscharge.

First insurance doesnt cover any intentional disscharge, so AD is covered.

Hence why I bought the NRA policy that coveres self defense discharges.

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Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: XL iced_coffee on January 19, 2017, 06:14:00 PM
I'll pay for insurance as long as I can shoot when I want in the comfort of my own back yard legally and without no one b*tchin and complaining.
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: changemyoil66 on January 19, 2017, 06:19:20 PM
I'll pay for insurance as long as I can shoot when I want in the comfort of my own back yard legally and without no one b*tchin and complaining.
The NRA policy is designed around self defense for home and away from home. Homeowners/renters policy is iffy.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: Heavies on January 19, 2017, 06:51:17 PM
F ckn pissed!
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: stangzilla on January 19, 2017, 07:02:49 PM
And with this everyone will go on rap back too?
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: stangzilla on January 19, 2017, 07:08:37 PM
Why don't we have a pro-2a task force that writes pro-2a bills?

What is this insurance supposed to insure?
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: Heavies on January 19, 2017, 07:21:55 PM
Why don't we have a pro-2a task force that writes pro-2a bills?

What is this insurance supposed to insure?
It's to insure[ensure] you don't get any more guns and hopefully make it so expensive and painful that you get rid of all the ones you currently own.   :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr:

Just how these F*cken libertard demoRATS want it!  The rich, powerful, and connected get the guns, YOU PEONS get NOTHING!!!   

Words cannot express how pissed I am at this moment...   :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: stangzilla on January 19, 2017, 08:00:28 PM
time to submit testimony.
although submitting testimony never seems to do anything

next hearing date is not listed yet, so cannot submit testimony yet
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: stangzilla on January 19, 2017, 08:04:08 PM
It's to insure[ensure] you don't get any more guns and hopefully make it so expensive and painful that you get rid of all the ones you currently own.   :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr:

Just how these F*cken libertard demoRATS want it!  The rich, powerful, and connected get the guns, YOU PEONS get NOTHING!!!   

Words cannot express how pissed I am at this moment...   :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

I am pissed off too
its going to really suck if we have to renew each individual firearm registration.  some of us have quite a few.
why would anyone from out of state register their firearm in Hawaii?
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: punaperson on January 19, 2017, 08:11:36 PM
It's to insure[ensure] you don't get any more guns and hopefully make it so expensive and painful that you get rid of all the ones you currently own.   :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr:

Just how these F*cken libertard demoRATS want it!  The rich, powerful, and connected get the guns, YOU PEONS get NOTHING!!!   

Words cannot express how pissed I am at this moment...   :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Hey guys, please attempt to calm yourselves so you don't have a stroke or something. And if you do that successfully please let me know how you did it because I nearly have a stroke every day when I read about all the crap going on.

Also, please be assured that by our efforts to arouse the 50,405 gun owning households in Hawaii to submit testimony and lobby the legislature we will get at least 10 emails sent to the committee opposing such legislation. How could they ignore that kind of response? Nothing to worry about.
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: stangzilla on January 19, 2017, 08:33:39 PM
while Trump is making America great again, we should make Hawaii part of America again.  >:(
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: London808 on January 19, 2017, 08:38:51 PM
This bill came up last year and went nowhere, calm down.

http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/31075992/proposal-would-require-gun-insurance-firearm-renewals-every-5-years (http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/31075992/proposal-would-require-gun-insurance-firearm-renewals-every-5-years)

D.C already tried something similar with 3 yearl registration and it was shot down as unconstitutional

The U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit today ruled that several parts of the District’s gun registration law violate the Second Amendment. The court held the following provisions unconstitutional:

registered guns be re-registered every three years.
a gun must be physically brought to the D.C. police headquarters in order to registered.
persons seeking to register a gun must pass a test about firearms laws.
prohibition on registering more than one handgun per month.
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: stangzilla on January 19, 2017, 08:50:00 PM
being unconstitutional never stopped them before
I trust no one.....especially W.espero and S.chang.  just look at them. slimy weasels.
sb9 passed 1st reading yesterday
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: eyeeatingfish on January 19, 2017, 09:09:51 PM
Yes.  I can remember 3 negligent discharges by LEOs without even thinking about it, one which killed the LEO.  On the other hand, I can't think of any by John Q Citizen.  Also insurance does not cover acts during the comission of a crime, so gun insurance won't help the innocent bystander who gets shot during a hold up. 

Stupid bill by stupid people, but I bet it gets a hearing and voted on.

I have seen a few accidental shootings of people by regular citizens. You don't hear about it that often though, especially if no one dies it might not make the news.
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on January 19, 2017, 09:27:45 PM
I have seen a few accidental shootings of people by regular citizens. You don't hear about it that often though, especially if no one dies it might not make the news.

If they don't make the news, then how did you SEE A FEW?  Other than accidents at KHSC, I've read of one accidental shooting on Oahu in 24 years that did not involve an officer.  That was a teen ILLEGALLY POSSESSING A REVOLVER at the Aiea Library.


Hawaii ranks low in accidental shootings involving children

http://www.staradvertiser.com/2016/10/15/breaking-news/hawaii-ranks-low-in-accident-shootings-involving-children/
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: ren on January 19, 2017, 09:43:06 PM
we need skateboarding, bike riding, swimming, and running insurance.
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: ren on January 19, 2017, 09:44:14 PM
How about mailbox insurance? You know just in case it gets stolen? I mean if someone can steal the Chief of police's mailbox it could happen to anyone! :shake:
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: Heavies on January 19, 2017, 09:52:55 PM
Need fucken hiking insurance.
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: whynow? on January 19, 2017, 10:33:55 PM
I will not comply with buying any gun insurance or more registration fees legislated by this state,   Again, for moles, trolls, spies for the city or state on this site, I will not comply.   I will not comply in re-registering squat, I will resist any attempts at confiscation or threats to my safety and freedom.
Nevermind this crap bill proposed by fuzzy haired, greasy lips, ass kissing Stanley Chang, but because of rapback, I will as an individual contact AG Sessions and others from the new DOJ that may help us to have them look at rapback and using an FBI database.  My goal is to have DOJ give HPD "help" in the form of oversight to ensure they comply with the laws and not interpret them.  Somrthing like what Obama's DOJ did with Ferguson PD.  Everyone knows, oversight is the kind of help nobody wants.
We have to organize or possibly end up in the headlines.
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: z06psi on January 19, 2017, 10:35:53 PM
Sorry guys.  I am making arrangements to start transferring all of my firearms out of this state.  I have 15 months to go and I am out of here.  Green did all of this. He roped Chang into his circle. Shooting fish in the barrel for Green.

Chang is a dead brain liberal.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: Inspector on January 20, 2017, 06:21:35 AM
And with this everyone will go on rap back too?
If everybody goes on rapback will there be a buying frenzy?  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: z06psi on January 20, 2017, 07:08:57 AM
And with this everyone will go on rap back too?

I would imagine so.  If you need to re-apply every 5 years to even own the firearm, not purchase, then yes eventually everyone would go into Rapback.   
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: passivekinetic on January 20, 2017, 08:29:36 AM
If they don't make the news, then how did you SEE A FEW?

Special access obviously.
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: changemyoil66 on January 20, 2017, 08:45:42 AM
There are a lot of hurdles this bill has to address.

1) Language doesn't specify what type of coverage and limits needed.  ( Most homeowners policies exclude some form of firearm liability)
       a) So majority of the carriers out there would have to change their language in the policy regarding firearm liability
2) Any new carrier who wishes to do business in Hawaii must apply with the insurance commissioner.
3) Rates have to be approved by insurance commissioner.  They can't just charge you what ever they want.  They have to show why and how they got their rates.
          a) Example: If your auto carrier wants a rate increase, usually a percentage (across the board), they have to show that they are experiencing more losses than normal and need to charge   more   to stay in business.  This is different from surcharges for accidents or moving violations.  Then the insurance commission has to approve this rate increase.
4) The 2 carriers that I know of is the NRA one and USCCA.  They are about the same price, $400 a year for $500,000 of liability.  You can buy less or more and the price adjust accordingly.  So it's not like they charge you $1200 like auto insurance.
5) What documentation is needed?  Certificates of insurance issued currently doesn't have a section for "firearm liability" due to all the exclusions.  Your insurance declaration page doesn't specifically say firearm liability.  You have to read the fine print in the policy.  A lot of fine print says it covers 1 thing, but 10 pages later, it says it excludes it.  So the entire insurance industry in Hawaii would have to change also.

I'm not saying this bill wont happen, but there are a lot of steps it has to address first.
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: punaperson on January 20, 2017, 09:06:23 AM
I'm not saying this bill wont happen, but there are a lot of steps it has to address first.
Like I said before, the details of reality are irrelevant to the "public servants" who proffer these sorts of bills. There is only one true intent: make it as costly, time consuming, and difficult as possible for law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms. But if you begin to question them or their motives, they universally assert that they "believe in the Second Amendment": I have it in writing from Ruderman. He wouldn't lie would he?  :rofl:
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: zippz on January 20, 2017, 09:24:12 AM
I'm going to assume they will want criminal liability insurance where the victim or state get paid if you commit a crime.

Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: Rocky on January 20, 2017, 09:43:05 AM

 Like   "Car insurance" ?
      Ok, then I am covered by my insurance WHEREVER I (or any other authorized and legally licensed person I loan my gun to) take my firearm, just like my car.  :thumbsup:

"They should be more worried about golfer's insurance"
      More moving vehicle windshields have been struck and broken by golf balls hit onto Kalanianiole Hwy  from Hawaii Kai Golf Course than bullets from anywhere.  :shake:

 Not really worrying about it.
I shipped all of my firearms to relatives in the mainland.  ::)
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: punaperson on January 20, 2017, 09:50:15 AM
I can hardly wait to see what kind and amount of insurance they will require if the national reciprocity act passes and includes the non-resident permit language allowing Hawaii residents to carry with a Utah/Arizona/etc. permit. There's gonna be a LOT of zeroes in that one! They're gonna need wider paper to get that number all on one line!  ;)  :rofl:
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: changemyoil66 on January 20, 2017, 10:07:00 AM
I'm going to assume they will want criminal liability insurance where the victim or state get paid if you commit a crime.

No such thing.  Carriers exclude liability for intentional criminal acts.  I burn your house down accidentally leaving a candle lit vs. I lit your curtains on fire.

Or hitting a pedestrian accidentally, vs. intentionally hitting someone with your car.

I personally think all gun owners should have some liability coverage, but that's your kuliana if you don't and something happens.  Hence why I got my NRA liability policy, mainly for when I carry in Nevada.
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: MuffinMan on January 20, 2017, 02:02:24 PM
It smells of a money grab and a way of slowing down or stopping gun sales/gun ownership in Hawaii by making it more cumbersome and more expensive.

The same thing they are trying to do with cars. Raising registration fees, raising the gas tax, eliminating street lanes (by making slightly used bike lanes) and eliminating parking and/or raising parking rates all in an effort to get people out of cars and onto the train or buses/bike.
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: Inspector on January 20, 2017, 02:18:42 PM
Does a big ass heavy safe count as insurance? Don't answer that, I already know the answer.

I have been meaning to look into which is cheaper, extending my homeowners insurance to cover the value of my guns or get added insurance thru the NRA. My homeowners insurance only covers firearms for $1k I think. I might get it thru the NRA cuz it covers loss, damage as well as fire, flood and theft. My homeowners only covers theft and fire.

Maybe it's time to start thinning the herd...  :shake: :shake: :shake:
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: zippz on January 20, 2017, 04:11:34 PM
No such thing.  Carriers exclude liability for intentional criminal acts.  I burn your house down accidentally leaving a candle lit vs. I lit your curtains on fire.

So what youre saying is no one provides that kind of insurance.  So we won't be able to get a gun.  How unfortunate.
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: punaperson on January 20, 2017, 04:35:41 PM
So what youre saying is no one provides that kind of insurance.  So we won't be able to get a gun.  How unfortunate.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure there's going to be a major waterworks of Liberal Tears shed for us.
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: changemyoil66 on January 20, 2017, 05:09:54 PM
So what youre saying is no one provides that kind of insurance.  So we won't be able to get a gun.  How unfortunate.
Criminal liability yes, firearm liability will depend on the carrier.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: changemyoil66 on January 20, 2017, 05:11:26 PM
Does a big ass heavy safe count as insurance? Don't answer that, I already know the answer.

I have been meaning to look into which is cheaper, extending my homeowners insurance to cover the value of my guns or get added insurance thru the NRA. My homeowners insurance only covers firearms for $1k I think. I might get it thru the NRA cuz it covers loss, damage as well as fire, flood and theft. My homeowners only covers theft and fire.

Maybe it's time to start thinning the herd...  :shake: :shake: :shake:
Some carriers go higher, but check the max amount per gun. NRA is broader coverage. You are right, homeowners excludes flood, hurricane, earth movement, riots, and other stuff.

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Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: z06psi on January 20, 2017, 06:20:46 PM
My homeowners only covered up to $1K.  High value covers whatever I put on it and is adjusted as I buy and sell.   However that is just on the property.  No liability insurance on that policy.


These idiots are asking for another hurdle to the 2A pure and simple. Green is your typical east coast leftist.
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: oldfart on January 21, 2017, 07:36:40 AM
(http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l348/dnrhand/sealinsurance_zpsogcx4gtb.jpg) (http://s328.photobucket.com/user/dnrhand/media/sealinsurance_zpsogcx4gtb.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: macsak on January 23, 2017, 09:02:43 AM
being unconstitutional never stopped them before
I trust no one.....especially W.espero and S.chang.  just look at them. slimy weasels.
sb9 passed 1st reading yesterday

k guys we need to hit up our senators about this bill and get it stopped
call, email, write and explain how bad this bill is
if we don't speak up, they will just keep on passing it through...
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: Bota-CS1 on January 23, 2017, 09:59:21 AM
i told that little shit that i wasn't voting for him because he wrote an "assault magazine" ban bill while on the city council, so he obviously has no knowledge of firearms nor the second amendment
he told me he has been to the range and supports the second amendment
i just shook my head

You sure he wasn't lost looking for Hanauma Bay parking?
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: changemyoil66 on January 23, 2017, 10:02:43 AM
Talked to the #2 in charge of a certain insurance carrier.  He was not aware of the bill, but is now and will contact his people to look into the vague requirements and pitfalls of having such a bill passed.
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: macsak on January 23, 2017, 10:17:54 AM
k guys we need to hit up our senators about this bill and get it stopped
call, email, write and explain how bad this bill is
if we don't speak up, they will just keep on passing it through...

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/login/login.aspx
establish account, enter in the bill number (in this case SB 9), and you can see the revisions and schedule, and you can submit testimony
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: macsak on January 23, 2017, 10:19:04 AM
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/login/login.aspx
establish account, enter in the bill number (in this case SB 9), and you can see the revisions and schedule, and you can submit testimony

or email your senator and chairs/committee members
here's an example from FB
https://www.facebook.com/groups/157262641109251/permalink/708632159305627/
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: changemyoil66 on January 23, 2017, 10:49:54 AM
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/login/login.aspx
establish account, enter in the bill number (in this case SB 9), and you can see the revisions and schedule, and you can submit testimony

Done.  Damn that bill is moving along, but none of the CCW ones yet.
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: PalisadesKid on January 23, 2017, 10:56:45 AM
Done.  Damn that bill is moving along, but none of the CCW ones yet.

Is there something Im not seeing because from the website, we still cannot submit testimony yet and no hearings have been scheduled yet.

Currently it shows SB9 status at "Referred to PSM/CPH, WAM." as of 01/20/17.

Likewise Pro-2A bills SB 212 and SB 213 are also at "Referred to PSM/CPH, WAM." as of 01/20/17.

Either way, I indivudally emailed Senators Nishihara and Baker about SB9 anyway.
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: Inspector on January 23, 2017, 10:59:33 AM
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/login/login.aspx
establish account, enter in the bill number (in this case SB 9), and you can see the revisions and schedule, and you can submit testimony
Can't submit testimony yet. Guess we have to wait for hearings.
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: dv808 on January 23, 2017, 11:14:06 AM
I heard they bypassed the hearings and it's going straight to vote.

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Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: macsak on January 23, 2017, 11:23:40 AM
Is there something Im not seeing because from the website, we still cannot submit testimony yet and no hearings have been scheduled yet.

Currently it shows SB9 status at "Referred to PSM/CPH, WAM." as of 01/20/17.

Likewise Pro-2A bills SB 212 and SB 213 are also at "Referred to PSM/CPH, WAM." as of 01/20/17.

Either way, I indivudally emailed Senators Nishihara and Baker about SB9 anyway.

you can email your senator and the committee chair/vice chair and try and get them to not even hear the bill, which would make it dead
and email opposition to the committee letting them know about it
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: Heavies on January 23, 2017, 01:06:03 PM
you can email your senator and the committee chair/vice chair and try and get them to not even hear the bill, which would make it dead
and email opposition to the committee letting them know about it
THIS

Contact them directly.   Last time we waited till the bills were up for testimony,  that's too late. 

Get it in their minds before it even comes up, so they know we DO NOT support.
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: changemyoil66 on January 23, 2017, 01:36:36 PM
Can't submit testimony yet. Guess we have to wait for hearings.

The entire process is stupid.  1 person decided what bills go to hearings and what bills don't. 

What is this persons contact info and name?
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: changemyoil66 on January 23, 2017, 01:47:16 PM
The entire process is stupid.  1 person decided what bills go to hearings and what bills don't. 

What is this persons contact info and name?

Speak to Clarence Nishihara 808-586-6970.  He is the Department of Public Safety to which the bill is passed to.
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: macsak on January 23, 2017, 01:51:53 PM
The entire process is stupid.  1 person decided what bills go to hearings and what bills don't. 

What is this persons contact info and name?

i've explained the process in the past, i'll look it up this evening

this info is from hi gov
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/citizensguide.aspx
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/glossary.aspx?show=all
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/faq.aspx
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/members/legislators.aspx?chamber=all
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: changemyoil66 on January 23, 2017, 03:00:00 PM
i've explained the process in the past, i'll look it up this evening

this info is from hi gov
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/citizensguide.aspx
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/glossary.aspx?show=all
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/faq.aspx
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/members/legislators.aspx?chamber=all
No need. No sense crying about spilt milk and wasting valuable macsak time. =P

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Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: macsak on January 23, 2017, 05:08:19 PM
No need. No sense crying about spilt milk and wasting valuable macsak time. =P

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https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=6282.msg60672#msg60672

the gunpocalypse in california was due to gut and replace bills that had nothing to do with gun control
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=23783.msg213347#msg213347

here's an article from hawaii free press about it
http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/ArticlesMain/tabid/56/ID/9458/Petition-Lists-7-Gut-and-Replace-Bills-11-Frankenstein-Bills.aspx?utm_source=April+21%2C+2013+++News+From+Hawaii+Free+Press&utm_campaign=April+21%2C+2013+Email&utm_medium=email
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: macsak on January 23, 2017, 05:10:50 PM
No need. No sense crying about spilt milk and wasting valuable macsak time. =P

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

oh shoot, sorry
that's conference committee
that's past where we are now, and is way worse than where we are now

right now, the committee chairs hold all the power
they can hold up bills by not taking testimony or votes (likely to happen with the ccw bills)
or they can use their influence to get their committees to pass things through to other committees or to a floor vote
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: PalisadesKid on January 23, 2017, 05:28:28 PM
DIRECT CONTACTS TO SENATORS GILBERT KEITH-AGARAN AND CLARENCE NISHIHARA.

I received a response from Will Espero, as I essentially sent emails expressing my opposition to SB9 to all state senators and representatives.

His response was that this bill would "likely be heard by Senator Nishihara (Public Safety) or Senator Keith-Agaran (Judiciary).

Gilbert Keith-Agaran:
Hawaii State Capitol, Room 221
Phone 808-586-7344
Fax 808-586-7348
E-Mail: senkeithagaran@capitol.hawaii.gov

Clarence Nishihara:
Hawaii State Capitol, Room 214
Phone 808-586-6970
Fax 808-586-6879
E-Mail: sennishihara@capitol.hawaii.gov


But like I mentioned, I already sent emails to these two senators, and all others, anyway.
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: changemyoil66 on January 24, 2017, 01:35:31 PM
DIRECT CONTACTS TO SENATORS GILBERT KEITH-AGARAN AND CLARENCE NISHIHARA.

I received a response from Will Espero, as I essentially sent emails expressing my opposition to SB9 to all state senators and representatives.

His response was that this bill would "likely be heard by Senator Nishihara (Public Safety) or Senator Keith-Agaran (Judiciary).

Gilbert Keith-Agaran:
Hawaii State Capitol, Room 221
Phone 808-586-7344
Fax 808-586-7348
E-Mail: senkeithagaran@capitol.hawaii.gov

Clarence Nishihara:
Hawaii State Capitol, Room 214
Phone 808-586-6970
Fax 808-586-6879
E-Mail: sennishihara@capitol.hawaii.gov


But like I mentioned, I already sent emails to these two senators, and all others, anyway.


Called Gilberts office and the lady there was actually taking notes.  She asked me to repeat some things so she can write them down.
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: London808 on January 24, 2017, 02:24:19 PM
And with this everyone will go on rap back too?

NOT ME NOT EVER (or untill a judge tells me is constitutional.)
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: macsak on January 24, 2017, 05:24:10 PM
Called Gilberts office and the lady there was actually taking notes.  She asked me to repeat some things so she can write them down.

sent email to all senators (sens@capitol.hawaii.gov)
will send again to chairs and vice chairs again later

subject: STRONGLY OPPOSE SB9

body: this bill is an unconstitutional infringement upon our second amendment rights (and our Hawaii State Constitution DIRECTLY COPIES the 2nd amendment)
"The Right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"

hawaii firearms laws are already in the top 5 strictest laws in the country, and we have an extremely low rate of violent crimes committed with firearms here
this bill does NOTHING to protect the public from people who obtain firearms illegally

this bill will discriminate against people who cannot afford the insurance or the time off of work to re-register their firearms every 5 years as stated in this bill

it will also unbelievably burden the county police departments having to re-register all the firearms every five years

mahalo for your consideration

aloha

macsak
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: eyeeatingfish on January 31, 2017, 02:43:29 PM
sent email to all senators (sens@capitol.hawaii.gov)
will send again to chairs and vice chairs again later

subject: STRONGLY OPPOSE SB9

body: this bill is an unconstitutional infringement upon our second amendment rights (and our Hawaii State Constitution DIRECTLY COPIES the 2nd amendment)
"The Right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"

hawaii firearms laws are already in the top 5 strictest laws in the country, and we have an extremely low rate of violent crimes committed with firearms here
this bill does NOTHING to protect the public from people who obtain firearms illegally

this bill will discriminate against people who cannot afford the insurance or the time off of work to re-register their firearms every 5 years as stated in this bill

it will also unbelievably burden the county police departments having to re-register all the firearms every five years

mahalo for your consideration

aloha

macsak

I hope you don't mind but I pretty much copied your text when sending an email to all senators.
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: macsak on January 31, 2017, 03:15:31 PM
I hope you don't mind but I pretty much copied your text when sending an email to all senators.

i don't mind at all
someone on fb copied it, but added punctuation and capitalization
 :geekdanc:
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: PalisadesKid on January 31, 2017, 03:47:48 PM
I hope you don't mind but I pretty much copied your text when sending an email to all senators.

Make sure you also email DIRECTLY these Senators that are chairs of the committee that SB9 is still referred to:

Senator Clarence Nishihara
Senate District 17
Hawaii State Capitol
Room 214
phone: 808-586-6970
fax: 808-586-6879
sennishihara@capitol.hawaii.gov

Senator Glenn Wakai
Senate District 15
Hawaii State Capitol
Room 216
phone: 808-586-8585
fax: 808-586-8588
senwakai@capitol.hawaii.gov

Senator Rosalyn Baker
Senate District 6
Hawaii State Capitol
Room 230
phone: 808-586-6070
fax: 808-586-6071
senbaker@Capitol.hawaii.gov

Senator Jill Tokuda
Senate District 24
Hawaii State Capitol
Room 207
phone: 808-587-7215
fax: 808-587-7220
sentokuda@capitol.hawaii.gov
Title: Re: Here We Go! New Bill: Mandatory gun-owner insurance! Woohoo!
Post by: PalisadesKid on January 31, 2017, 03:49:51 PM
Opposition for S.B. No. 9, Relating to Firearms Insurance

Aloha,

I wish to express my disappointment that such a S.B. No. 9, Relating to Firearms Insurance has made its way into this year’s legislative session. As a lawful firearm owner, I feel that mandating a financial requirement (obtaining insurance) to lawfully exercise a constitutional right presents an ethical problem and only creates further “distrust” amongst the voters of Hawaii towards elected officials.

It is clear that our state constitution, as well as the constitution of the United States of America, doesn’t specify that the Right to Bear Arms should carry a financial requirement. There shouldn’t be a “price tag” in order to “allow” law-abiding citizens to exercise their 2nd Amendment Rights. In order to purchase a firearm, law-abiding individuals must go through a 14-Day waiting period, sign waivers for medical and mental health waivers, authorize criminal background checks, authorized being placed on a watch list alongside convicted criminals (Hawaii Rap Back), and make 3 individual trips to the main HPD branch. Through these current measures, we represent some of what is good about Hawaii.

Hawaii has enjoyed decades and decades of low violent crime incidents involving firearms. 2014 statistics from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention clearly show that when compared to a national firearm-related mortality rate of 10.2 (per 100,000 residents), Hawaii’s rate was at 2.6. What is interesting is that California, who boasts more firearm regulations than the State of Hawaii, reached a firearm-related mortality rate of 7.4 in comparison to national rate of 10.2 in the same year (2014).

While many are quick to credit Hawaii’s stringent firearms regulations for such low death rates, one intangible factor that has to be taken into consideration is our “Aloha Spirit” and our unique local culture that still puts “ohana” and respect for others above all else. Therefore I feel it is unjust to continuously subject the lawful gun owners of Hawaii with draconian proposals aimed at potentially deterring honest people from exercising their right to the 2nd Amendment and self-defense by adding further financial requirements and procedures. 

Again I deeply oppose S.B. No.9 and ask that the law-abiding citizens of Hawaii that lawfully exercise their 2nd Amendment Rights be free and clear from these continued attacks on our freedoms in the future.