2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: DonRow on January 20, 2012, 03:29:01 PM
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http://www.wnd.com/2012/01/justice-department-blinks-in-battle-against-sheriff-joe/ (http://www.wnd.com/2012/01/justice-department-blinks-in-battle-against-sheriff-joe/)
We need more law men like him.. :geekdanc: ;D
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Folks who care more about the color of your skin than the content of your character? No thanks.
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What?? Sheriff Joe? Wait, wait , wait, being that I lived in Vegas, Arizona, been to Maricopa, Nogales, and other border towns which is scarier then shit, what hes doing has nothing to do with race. It's called standing up to illegal immigration, let me say that once again "Illegal Immigration" there are ways to get here and just so happen the way illegals are getting here is just that "Illegal" . I know lots of people from Arizona, texas, and Vegas who are of "legal" immigrant parents that came here the right way, that agree whole heatedly in what sheriff joe is doing. If the DOJ had evidence that he did something that violated civil rights, they would nail his ass to the cross, and make him a poster child, especially in this administration. But they don't that's why they blinked first. Now why does he keep getting elected as sheriff over and over, reason, cause he's the only on that's really doing something about it. Now we dont live close to where there's drug cartel gun fights on almost daily bases right across the border from the towns, beheadings, kidnappings, which I might say Arizona is the kidnap capital of the world if I'm not mistaken. I could go in and in about but I'm not going to its my opinion like I always say you don't need to agree with it that's your right. Like I said GO SHERIFF JOE!!!
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Folks who care more about the color of your skin than the content of your character? No thanks.
Would you care to provide any amplifying information/the grounds for your claim? Obama's Holder is already making unsubstantiated claims, so if you've got something, you're doing better than Holder! :rofl:
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Folks who care more about the color of your skin than the content of your character? No thanks.
Would you care to provide any amplifying information/the grounds for your claim? Obama's Holder is already making unsubstantiated claims, so if you've got something, you're doing better than Holder! :rofl:
like I said Cougar if the DOJ found that "AAAANY" civil right were violated they would nail his ass to the cross and make it "REALLY" public. Sheriff Joe would be plastered all over the main stream media.
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He will be, wait and see. But the DOJ works on evidence, not innuendo like World Nut Daily.
As gun owners in Hawaii, I'd think that folks would be wanting the Constitution to be strictly enforced, regardless of what local officials do to pander to the lowest common denominator.
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Joe's detention programs should be a model for governments around the country. He does more, with less -- and gets results.
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They said that about Bull Connor, too. Be careful what you wish for.
What I think should be done is to go after all the "patriotic" American companies (like Tyson Foods) who hire illegal immigrants. If the jobs disappeared, so would the problem.
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They said that about Bull Connor, too. Be careful what you wish for.
What I think should be done is to go after all the "patriotic" American companies (like Tyson Foods) who hire illegal immigrants. If the jobs disappeared, so would the problem.
Why don't we go after both?
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They said that about Bull Connor, too. Be careful what you wish for.
What I think should be done is to go after all the "patriotic" American companies (like Tyson Foods) who hire illegal immigrants. If the jobs disappeared, so would the problem.
The honest truth is NOBODY would do the hard jobs if not for the immigrants.
You never see anybody else working in 110 degree heat picking lettuce for 12 hours a day for minimum wage except for immigrants.
I don't think illegal immigrants should be hired but the truth is that they have fake birth certificates, shared social security numbers and other ways to trick the employers into hiring them.
If you go after the companies that provide inexpensive produce and chicken then the prices go up and everybody complains that the prices are too high.
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They said that about Bull Connor, too. Be careful what you wish for.
What I think should be done is to go after all the "patriotic" American companies (like Tyson Foods) who hire illegal immigrants. If the jobs disappeared, so would the problem.
The honest truth is NOBODY would do the hard jobs if not for the immigrants.
You never see anybody else working in 110 degree heat picking lettuce for 12 hours a day for minimum wage except for immigrants.
I don't think illegal immigrants should be hired but the truth is that they have fake birth certificates, shared social security numbers and other ways to trick the employers into hiring them.
As an aside, while I was on vacation in Mexico, staying at my ex's dads place, we hired a maid to get the place up to snuff. We agreed on 200 pesos per day, and she would show up like clockwork every morning (having walked or ridden those shitty buses halfway across Guadalajara) at seven sharp, then work her ass off until five or six. According to my currency converter, 200 pesos is currently worth $15.10 US. I felt guilty about taking advantage of her, but we really couldn't afford to get too crazy with the wages. I think she felt the same way; we paid her a thousand pesos at the end of the first week and from the look on her face I'm pretty sure she'd never seen that much money in her whole life. She was all excited about all the things she could do, she might even be able to save enough for a car! That woman worked harder for fifteen bucks a day than I would for fifteen bucks an hour; pretty hard for Americans to compete with that work ethic and exchange rate.
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I'm more sympathetic to those who will work (illegally or not), keep their nose clean, and are trying to support themselves. I do not however, have the same sympathy for the criminal and thugs who make up a significant portion of our criminal justice system.
As far as asking what I wish for, I've been doing and researching my criminal justice classes for a while (considering that is my major), along with lots of lively debate about this topic. What exactly about Sheriff Joes detention facilities do you have issue with? I would love to understand where you are coming from on this.
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I'm with you, Chris. What pisses me off is the ones who come here and take advantage of our education, welfare, medical care, etc, etc, etc.
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They said that about Bull Connor, too. Be careful what you wish for.
What I think should be done is to go after all the "patriotic" American companies (like Tyson Foods) who hire illegal immigrants. If the jobs disappeared, so would the problem.
The honest truth is NOBODY would do the hard jobs if not for the immigrants.
You never see anybody else working in 110 degree heat picking lettuce for 12 hours a day for minimum wage except for immigrants.
I don't think illegal immigrants should be hired but the truth is that they have fake birth certificates, shared social security numbers and other ways to trick the employers into hiring them.
As an aside, while I was on vacation in Mexico, staying at my ex's dads place, we hired a maid to get the place up to snuff. We agreed on 200 pesos per day, and she would show up like clockwork every morning (having walked or ridden those shitty buses halfway across Guadalajara) at seven sharp, then work her ass off until five or six. According to my currency converter, 200 pesos is currently worth $15.10 US. I felt guilty about taking advantage of her, but we really couldn't afford to get too crazy with the wages. I think she felt the same way; we paid her a thousand pesos at the end of the first week and from the look on her face I'm pretty sure she'd never seen that much money in her whole life. She was all excited about all the things she could do, she might even be able to save enough for a car! That woman worked harder for fifteen bucks a day than I would for fifteen bucks an hour; pretty hard for Americans to compete with that work ethic and exchange rate.
The workers in Diego Garcia get the equivalent of about 400-450 USD a month, for full-time work. I was pretty spoiled when all I needed to do was leave my laundry out, with 2-3 dollars... I would come back from work with it clean, folded, put away in my locker. I bought this hand made coconut ship (it's pretty badass) for $35 guy said it takes him 15-20 hours to make. Many people are not willing to work hard for what they want - I have seen it first hand; hell, I saw it at the most recent job fair (two days ago).
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All the hard work jobs are all the jobs that teens used to do, hell back when I was a teen many, many moons ago all the summer jobs in the sugar fields were done by teens, and man we busted our asses carrying a 5 gallon tank on your back with round up all day. But when I got that check I was the happiest SOB in the world. Now a days you tell a kid to go outside and mow the lawn they ready fo call CPS on you. Yes we created the problem, in a way. But it is what it is "illegal" you broke the law to get here well by god you should get busted and as for the "patriotic" companys that crazy cat talks about, they broke the law by all means they should go after them to as well as the illegals. You broke the law, you pay the price plane and simple. We are a nation of laws..
And I'm with Chris also.
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All the hard work jobs are all the jobs that teens used to do, hell back when I was a teen many, many moons ago all the summer jobs in the sugar fields were done by teens, and man we busted our asses carrying a 5 gallon tank on your back with round up all day. But when I got that check I was the happiest SOB in the world. Now a days you tell a kid to go outside and mow the lawn they ready fo call CPS on you. Yes we created the problem, in a way. But it is what it is "illegal" you broke the law to get here well by god you should get busted and as for the "patriotic" companys that crazy cat talks about, they broke the law by all means they should go after them to as well as the illegals. You broke the law, you pay the price plane and simple. We are a nation of laws..
And I'm with Chris also.
Your story brings back memories of pitching hay bales in the sweltering heat in Montana! If the farmer you were working for was feeling especially flush, you could expect to make all the way up to $0.25 per bale! :rofl:
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Imagine you are the mother of a mentally handicapped thirty-three-year-old-man. Your son functions on the level of a twelve-year-old boy. His disability often causes him to act erratically, but you still hope that one day, he can lead a normal life. One night in August, 2001, he is arrested on a misdemeanor loitering charge when he begins acting strangely in a convenience store. When officers arrive to arrest him, he is clinging to the store's coffee machine and won't let go. Four officers forcibly remove him from the store, handcuff him, and throw him to the ground to be hogtied. The force seems excessive, since your son is disabled and only weighs about a hundred and thirty pounds. A few minutes later, his limbs bound behind his tiny frame, officers load him into the squad car to take him away. Before they pull away, your son asks you, like a little kid:
"Mom, will you ride in the car with me?"
"I can't," you tell him, "the police won't let me."
You figure that the police will probably hold your son overnight, and you head home to get some rest.
Two hours later, your son is dead.
When Charles Agster arrives at Madison Street Jail, he is confused, as is typical of his condition. He tries to wriggle underneath a bench, and although he is still hogtied, three or more officers and a sheriff's deputy jump on him, punch him, and knee him in the side. One officer grips his face, pressing upward toward his chin. Although he is now unresponsive, the officers drag him, face down, into the Intake area and strap him into a restraint chair. They place a spit-hood over his head, encasing him in darkness. Minutes later, he stops breathing. The original autopsy lists "positional asphyxia due to restraint" as his cause of death.
Videotape of the incident shows guards trying to resuscitate Agster, but he's already brain dead. A 2002 Amnesty International report expresses concern "that the degree of force used against Agster was grossly disproportionate to any threat posed by him."
Forty-year-old Brian Crenshaw was serving a short sentence for shoplifting. Although Crenshaw had been in and out of jail for years and had a drug problem, he had never been accused of a violent crime. He was also legally blind. After an altercation with officers, Crenshaw reported injuries to jail medical personnel. His eye and nose were sutured, and his vitals were taken. Crenshaw stated that he was pushed to the wall, punched and kicked by officers. Apparently, the struggle ensued when Crenshaw refused to show his ID in a lunch line. Due to the altercation, Crenshaw was placed in lockdown.
For the next six days, nobody entered or left his cell. On March 14, Crenshaw was found unconscious next to his bunk. He had a broken neck, several broken toes, and extensive internal injuries. He was comatose, his intestines had ruptured, and his vertebrae needed to be straightened with a halo. Doctors told Crenshaw's mother that his internal injuries were so severe they had to surgically open his stomach to relieve swelling. The sheriff's office asserts that Crenshaw's struggle with guards did not cause the injuries that led to his death. Despite the severity of Crenshaw's injuries, the sheriff's office maintains that these injuries were incurred when he fell from his bunk.
On a CBS 5 program after the incident, interviewer Chris Hayes asks Arpaio, "Is it possible your guards beat Brian Crenshaw to death?
"Is it possible?" Arpaio sneers. After an uncomfortable pause, he continues, "No, they did not, they did not, and if that's what your critics, or that you're insinuating we went into that cell block and beat him up and threw him to the floor is ridiculous. We did a thorough investigation on that. The man fell off a bunk."
Crenshaw's bunk was 4'2" high, about a foot shorter than a child's bunk bed , or as Chris Hayes pointed out in his investigation, a little taller than a desk.
You don't have to be a softy or an advocate of prisoners' rights to become outraged at reports like these. We all want a sheriff who is tough on crime—and we don't want our tax dollars to be spent on luxurious accommodations for inmates. Rest assured, the conditions in Maricopa County's jails aren't lavish, comfortable, or even tolerable. The temperatures inside Tent City often reach 120 degrees in the summer, and with only four guards for every thousand prisoners, Arpaio is cutting dangerous corners and endangering both inmates and detention officers. The sheriff brags that he spends more money feeding police dogs than he does inmates. The dogs, he argues, deserve better, since they haven't done anything illegal. What's important to remember is that Tent City doesn't just house hardened criminals—it also houses people who are awaiting trial; people who haven't been convicted or even accused of any crime. One young man spent four years in Arpaio's jails before being released—and acquitted on all charges. Arpaio boasts that he's saving money by keeping inmates in these conditions, but the cost of humiliating inmates is beginning to skyrocket.
http://www.arpaio.com/ (http://www.arpaio.com/)
There's plenty more at the link. Either everybody's rights are protected, or nobody's are.
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So I ask once again, why does he keep getting elected?? It's sad the a mentally retarded kid died in jail, but I ask, why didn't the parents go to the jail with him in there own car? You can do that. And this guy saying that "the bed was only 4' 2" people around the world die from just falling out of the shower, or walking down the street and just slipping, it all depends on how and where you hit your head. I not in anyway advocating police brutality at all, but if not thing was done there was no hard evidents or the cops including Joe would have been thrown in prison for murder. Your right DOJ does work on evidents, but they have none and they've been watching him for the past four years if not longer you would think that they had something on him already. He is elected and payed to do a job, and that job envoles protecting that people and he's doing his job.
Like I said the, sad very sad that they died in custody but seams like something is missing from it, once again where we're the parents?? Usually mentally disturbed people go straight to the a mental hospital to be monitored I know cause I got into a scuffle and arrested one. And he was taken straight to mahilona for observation.
But if he does end up with a civil rights violation from the DOJ I'll eat my words and he deserves every bit of it.
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Go Joe! What is wrog with this Obama Admiinistration? Illegal means Illegal. Just like the fake long form birth certificate. Throw him and Eric Holder in Jail.
I hope everyone joins in the fight to get Obama off the ballot. Since he is NOT a "Natural Born Citizen"
On my recent trip to Vegas I had to enlighten some black friends why not to vote for Obama. They had no clue and they are gun owners!
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He keeps getting elected (and costing the county big bucks in lawsuits) because he panders to the worst part of human nature.
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I betcha behide most them lawsuits the name LaRaza appears.
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Sigh.
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me -- and there was no one left to speak for me.
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He keeps getting elected (and costing the county big bucks in lawsuits) because he panders to the worst part of human nature.
They can suck it up. Our troops go through worse, and they aren't even in prison. Jail isn't where you go for cuddly comfort food and a nice rack. You labor, you work hard, you bleed and you blister. You want to see bad jails, go take a look at some of the prisons in Perth Australia, where prisoners painted pictures in their cell from their own blood. Lets talk recidivism, do the local prisons in his area have a higher or lower rate of recidivism than other prisons?
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Chris Howbout north Korea reeducation camps where your lucky to ever see your family again. You want to talk bad go read Chris Kyle's book and read what he saw when he was in Iraq going house to house in Fallujah when he saw a mass grave, under some ones house of Marines. They think they got it bad..
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Wow.
I wonder why there aren't more falling from bunk deaths in the prison system? Surely this is not the only person who ever fell from a bunk.
I don't think prisons need to be luxury resorts but when people are dying of mysterious blunt trauma in them something is probably wrong.
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Wow.
I wonder why there aren't more falling from bunk deaths in the prison system? Surely this is not the only person who ever fell from a bunk.
I don't think prisons need to be luxury resorts but when people are dying of mysterious blunt trauma in them something is probably wrong.
People die from 'mysterious' trauma all the time in prison :/
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Sigh.
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me -- and there was no one left to speak for me.
How is this relevant to this topic?
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Sigh.
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me -- and there was no one left to speak for me.
How is this relevant to this topic?
This is what happens when you let bleeding heart liberal agnostics in.
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^^^^^^^
Or perhaps it was pointing out that it is easy to feel no sympathy for criminals because you are not one.
Which a fair number of us probably ARE and just haven't gotten caught for it or we're leaning out on laws that aren't normally enforced. No pot smokers here? No one with an unregistered weapon "just in case they do a gun grab" or a "high capacity" magazine?
This isn't the wild west or Stalinist Russia. We don't have gulags and shouldn't have people dying in prison from abuse by the guards.
You'd think that on a forum that is concerned with the erosion of the 2nd amendment rights one might see the parallels in the erosion of other rights under the guise of being "tough on crime."
Joe and people like him certainly have their place. It would be a lot less controversial if he didn't have people dying under his "care". Or are we leaning towards being Stalinist Russia?
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The quote is from a minister who spent seven years in Hitler's concentration camps. So is Nazi Germany what y'all consider bleeding heart liberal agnostics?
Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it.
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No pot smokers here? No one with an unregistered weapon "just in case they do a gun grab"
nope, nope and nope. Now don't think I didn't think about not registering my guns, the thought did cross my mind.
By the way you forgot Kim Jong Il, Pol Pot, Mao Tse Tung, Vladimir Ilyich Lenin, Saddam, any crazy dictator in the middle east. I think that's it.
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Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it.
Nice quote drop, George Santayana right? Italian philosopher right?
Who in the world said we forgot history? The law is the law illegal is illegal plane and simple.
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It's illegal to be retarded? And deserving of death at the hands of the police? Sounds like Nazi Germany all over again.....
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It's illegal to be retarded? And deserving of death at the hands of the police? Sounds like Nazi Germany all over again.....
I love how you've hijacked this thread.
:stopjack:
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Now in Sheriff Joe's defense... one of the things he seems to be protesting is the "commoditizing" of prisoners that has shamefully reshaped the prison industry over the last 3 decades.
Prisons represent big dollars to the communities and businesses (and congressmen) that build and support them. Prisons and prisoners bring visitors, visitors need services, etc. All we need to grease these wheels are more convicts and more prisons. Part of Joe's point is that the prison industry shouldn't be that way and shouldn't have to cost that much. Its a PRISON and not a business opportunity.
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You guys are crazy :D
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:thumbsup:
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It's illegal to be retarded? And deserving of death at the hands of the police? Sounds like Nazi Germany all over again.....
What The ?!? (Sorry Moderator for the language) this thread went from being anti "Illegal" immigration to being, now since we don't agree with your view on it, were now people who hate mentally handicapped people and we are "Nazi's" brah, if you even read what I typed you would've seen that I said it was a "really sad thing to happen" and "where the hell were the parents" what you think, just because there handicapped that there not strong enough?? I've seen one cop get hammered by a mentally disturbed person it took me and two other officers to subdue this man and on top of that we put him in the back of the patrol car the man gets on his back and kicks out the the rear door window and was sent to a mental institution for close observation. My best friend daughter is mentally handicapped with down syndrome and I love her with all my heart and would die for her. Maybe you should know who your fucking talking to before start being a troll and start throwing accusation. Couldn't just agree to disagree huh.. Pfff brah, whateveahs...
-- edited language. Funtimes
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It's illegal to be retarded? And deserving of death at the hands of the police? Sounds like Nazi Germany all over again.....
What The Fuck?!? (Sorry Moderator for the language) this thread went from being anti "Illegal" immigration to being, now since we don't agree with your view on it, were now people who hate mentally handicapped people and we are "Nazi's" brah, if you even read what I typed you would've seen that I said it was a "really sad thing to happen" and "where the hell were the parents" what you think, just because there handicapped that there not strong enough?? I've seen one cop get hammered by a mentally disturbed person it took me and two other officers to subdue this man and on top of that we put him in the back of the patrol car the man gets on his back and kicks out the the rear door window and was sent to a mental institution for close observation. My best friend daughter is mentally handicapped with down syndrome and I love her with all my heart and would die for her. Maybe you should know who your fucking talking to before start being a troll and start throwing accusation. Couldn't just agree to disagree huh.. Pfff brah, whateveahs...
Donrow, don't feed the trolls....
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Imagine you are the mother of a mentally handicapped thirty-three-year-old-man. Your son functions on the level of a twelve-year-old boy. His disability often causes him to act erratically, but you still hope that one day, he can lead a normal life. One night in August, 2001, he is arrested on a misdemeanor loitering charge when he begins acting strangely in a convenience store. When officers arrive to arrest him, he is clinging to the store's coffee machine and won't let go. Four officers forcibly remove him from the store, handcuff him, and throw him to the ground to be hogtied. The force seems excessive, since your son is disabled and only weighs about a hundred and thirty pounds. A few minutes later, his limbs bound behind his tiny frame, officers load him into the squad car to take him away. Before they pull away, your son asks you, like a little kid:
"Mom, will you ride in the car with me?"
"I can't," you tell him, "the police won't let me."
You figure that the police will probably hold your son overnight, and you head home to get some rest.
Two hours later, your son is dead.
When Charles Agster arrives at Madison Street Jail, he is confused, as is typical of his condition. He tries to wriggle underneath a bench, and although he is still hogtied, three or more officers and a sheriff's deputy jump on him, punch him, and knee him in the side. One officer grips his face, pressing upward toward his chin. Although he is now unresponsive, the officers drag him, face down, into the Intake area and strap him into a restraint chair. They place a spit-hood over his head, encasing him in darkness. Minutes later, he stops breathing. The original autopsy lists "positional asphyxia due to restraint" as his cause of death.
Videotape of the incident shows guards trying to resuscitate Agster, but he's already brain dead. A 2002 Amnesty International report expresses concern "that the degree of force used against Agster was grossly disproportionate to any threat posed by him."
http://www.arpaio.com/ (http://www.arpaio.com/)
Since you didn't read it the first time
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Imagine you are the mother of a mentally handicapped thirty-three-year-old-man. Your son functions on the level of a twelve-year-old boy. His disability often causes him to act erratically, but you still hope that one day, he can lead a normal life. One night in August, 2001, he is arrested on a misdemeanor loitering charge when he begins acting strangely in a convenience store. When officers arrive to arrest him, he is clinging to the store's coffee machine and won't let go. Four officers forcibly remove him from the store, handcuff him, and throw him to the ground to be hogtied. The force seems excessive, since your son is disabled and only weighs about a hundred and thirty pounds. A few minutes later, his limbs bound behind his tiny frame, officers load him into the squad car to take him away. Before they pull away, your son asks you, like a little kid:
"Mom, will you ride in the car with me?"
"I can't," you tell him, "the police won't let me."
You figure that the police will probably hold your son overnight, and you head home to get some rest.
Two hours later, your son is dead.
When Charles Agster arrives at Madison Street Jail, he is confused, as is typical of his condition. He tries to wriggle underneath a bench, and although he is still hogtied, three or more officers and a sheriff's deputy jump on him, punch him, and knee him in the side. One officer grips his face, pressing upward toward his chin. Although he is now unresponsive, the officers drag him, face down, into the Intake area and strap him into a restraint chair. They place a spit-hood over his head, encasing him in darkness. Minutes later, he stops breathing. The original autopsy lists "positional asphyxia due to restraint" as his cause of death.
Videotape of the incident shows guards trying to resuscitate Agster, but he's already brain dead. A 2002 Amnesty International report expresses concern "that the degree of force used against Agster was grossly disproportionate to any threat posed by him."
http://www.arpaio.com/ (http://www.arpaio.com/)
Since you didn't read it the first time
here is a suggestion: take your bleeding heart bullshit to the Obama or Nancy Pelosi support forum. You sure you are on the right forum?
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Imagine you are the mother of a mentally handicapped thirty-three-year-old-man. Your son functions on the level of a twelve-year-old boy. His disability often causes him to act erratically, but you still hope that one day, he can lead a normal life. One night in August, 2001, he is arrested on a misdemeanor loitering charge when he begins acting strangely in a convenience store. When officers arrive to arrest him, he is clinging to the store's coffee machine and won't let go. Four officers forcibly remove him from the store, handcuff him, and throw him to the ground to be hogtied. The force seems excessive, since your son is disabled and only weighs about a hundred and thirty pounds. A few minutes later, his limbs bound behind his tiny frame, officers load him into the squad car to take him away. Before they pull away, your son asks you, like a little kid:
"Mom, will you ride in the car with me?"
"I can't," you tell him, "the police won't let me."
You figure that the police will probably hold your son overnight, and you head home to get some rest.
Two hours later, your son is dead.
When Charles Agster arrives at Madison Street Jail, he is confused, as is typical of his condition. He tries to wriggle underneath a bench, and although he is still hogtied, three or more officers and a sheriff's deputy jump on him, punch him, and knee him in the side. One officer grips his face, pressing upward toward his chin. Although he is now unresponsive, the officers drag him, face down, into the Intake area and strap him into a restraint chair. They place a spit-hood over his head, encasing him in darkness. Minutes later, he stops breathing. The original autopsy lists "positional asphyxia due to restraint" as his cause of death.
Videotape of the incident shows guards trying to resuscitate Agster, but he's already brain dead. A 2002 Amnesty International report expresses concern "that the degree of force used against Agster was grossly disproportionate to any threat posed by him."
http://www.arpaio.com/ (http://www.arpaio.com/)
Since you didn't read it the first time
Real easy to call plays from the sideline on this one, but for this single case there were probably 1000 just like it earlier in the same year involving intoxicated or high little skinny dudes that acted out in restraints and were dealt the same treatment because their behavior remained the same or escalated with all attempts of lesser force. It is very hard to tell the difference between a drunk, high, diabetic, or retarded individual when they are acting aggressively.
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Imagine you are the mother of a mentally handicapped thirty-three-year-old-man. Your son functions on the level of a twelve-year-old boy. His disability often causes him to act erratically, but you still hope that one day, he can lead a normal life. One night in August, 2001, he is arrested on a misdemeanor loitering charge when he begins acting strangely in a convenience store. When officers arrive to arrest him, he is clinging to the store's coffee machine and won't let go. Four officers forcibly remove him from the store, handcuff him, and throw him to the ground to be hogtied. The force seems excessive, since your son is disabled and only weighs about a hundred and thirty pounds. A few minutes later, his limbs bound behind his tiny frame, officers load him into the squad car to take him away. Before they pull away, your son asks you, like a little kid:
"Mom, will you ride in the car with me?"
"I can't," you tell him, "the police won't let me."
You figure that the police will probably hold your son overnight, and you head home to get some rest.
Two hours later, your son is dead.
When Charles Agster arrives at Madison Street Jail, he is confused, as is typical of his condition. He tries to wriggle underneath a bench, and although he is still hogtied, three or more officers and a sheriff's deputy jump on him, punch him, and knee him in the side. One officer grips his face, pressing upward toward his chin. Although he is now unresponsive, the officers drag him, face down, into the Intake area and strap him into a restraint chair. They place a spit-hood over his head, encasing him in darkness. Minutes later, he stops breathing. The original autopsy lists "positional asphyxia due to restraint" as his cause of death.
Videotape of the incident shows guards trying to resuscitate Agster, but he's already brain dead. A 2002 Amnesty International report expresses concern "that the degree of force used against Agster was grossly disproportionate to any threat posed by him."
http://www.arpaio.com/ (http://www.arpaio.com/)
Since you didn't read it the first time
I think we all read it the first time. I said I wouldn't get involved in this thread but I need to ask you this... If your significant other, child, sibling, parent, whatever, is a LEO and is confronted with a situation with a mentally "disabled" (I thought liberals don't usually the word "retarded"), would you want them to take it easy and give them the benefit of the doubt? Is it the duty of LEO to keep the public safe or are they supposed to try and learn the character of the person before arresting them. In fact, if you were confronted by a mentally disabled person, would you assume they are harmless?
Like Don pointed out, it's a damn shame that it happened. But sh!t happens. Try to reduce the chances of it happening to you by keeping yourself out of those situations. Lastly, if a convicted criminal infringed upon my or a loved one's rights, I don't really give a damn if those criminals are now treated a little harsh in prison. Typical of many Americans to blame others when it's their own actions that put them there in the first place.
I'm wondering if you're just trying to illicit a response. If so, you did good.
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It's illegal to be retarded? And deserving of death at the hands of the police? Sounds like Nazi Germany all over again.....
What The Fuck?!? (Sorry Moderator for the language) this thread went from being anti "Illegal" immigration to being, now since we don't agree with your view on it, were now people who hate mentally handicapped people and we are "Nazi's" brah, if you even read what I typed you would've seen that I said it was a "really sad thing to happen" and "where the hell were the parents" what you think, just because there handicapped that there not strong enough?? I've seen one cop get hammered by a mentally disturbed person it took me and two other officers to subdue this man and on top of that we put him in the back of the patrol car the man gets on his back and kicks out the the rear door window and was sent to a mental institution for close observation. My best friend daughter is mentally handicapped with down syndrome and I love her with all my heart and would die for her. Maybe you should know who your fucking talking to before start being a troll and start throwing accusation. Couldn't just agree to disagree huh.. Pfff brah, whateveahs...
Donrow, don't feed the trolls....
sorry.. :)
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here is a suggestion: take your bleeding heart bullshit to the Obama or Nancy Pelosi support forum. You sure you are on the right forum?
Take your defense of 2a allies where you can get them. If you can't handle disagreements on other issues without getting defensive then the 2nd amendment, along with the rest of our rights, is doomed.
Its the SAME issue: trust of government and the extent of government power. How is it that we kick and spit when the HPD won't let us carry but its OK when a shoot from the hip sheriff and his staff kill "bad guys" via beatings and restraints? Its not a bleeding heart issue, its an appropriate use of power issue.
If the AZ residents who elect him are happy with him so be it. Holding it up as a shining example of effective law enforcement to be emulated elsewhere IS going to elicit some dissenting opinions.
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here is a suggestion: take your bleeding heart bullshit to the Obama or Nancy Pelosi support forum. You sure you are on the right forum?
Its not a bleeding heart issue.
If the AZ residents who elect him are happy with him so be it. Holding it up as a shining example of effective law enforcement to be emulated elsewhere IS going to elicit some dissenting opinions.
This post has liberal tears and blood all over it. I give a shit if he marches them outback and shoots them, especially the repeat offenders.
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Fair enough.
And?
I'm way more liberal than most people on gun forums. And I'm an avid gun collector and life long hand loader that believes deeply in the constitutional right to keep and bear arms and in marksmanship as an American tradition.
Am I not welcome on the 2ahawaii forum because I lean more left than most here?
I'm not saying that I feel like I've been told to go elsewhere: I don't and I haven't. Just pointing out that I am very definitely on the right forum as is crazy cat. And that you do have allies on the other side of the political isle. You sure you want to lump them in with your enemies on the other side of the isle just because? Or is there such a thing as an ally on the other side of the isle for you?
Anyway. Sorry. Now I'm threadjacking. :oops: I'm just surprised at how quickly and often a discussion becomes 'What?! You aren't 100% us? Then you must be 100% them! Git the bleedin' heart liberal, boys!!!"
But... enough. Gotta strip the .44 lever and oil it before company comes over tonight.
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Fair enough.
And?
I'm way more liberal than most people on gun forums. And I'm an avid gun collector and life long hand loader that believes deeply in the constitutional right to keep and bear arms and in marksmanship as an American tradition.
Am I not welcome on the 2ahawaii forum because I lean more left than most here?
I'm not saying that I feel like I've been told to go elsewhere: I don't and I haven't. Just pointing out that I am very definitely on the right forum as is crazy cat. And that you do have allies on the other side of the political isle. You sure you want to lump them in with your enemies on the other side of the isle just because? Or is there such a thing as an ally on the other side of the isle for you?
Anyway. Sorry. Now I'm threadjacking. :oops: I'm just surprised at how quickly and often a discussion becomes 'What?! You aren't 100% us? Then you must be 100% them! Git the bleedin' heart liberal, boys!!!"
But... enough. Gotta strip the .44 lever and oil it before company comes over tonight.
I don't think your left leaning man your more up the middle trying to see both sides of view. I agreed with you on stuff and disagreed with you on stuff, and when I did disagree with you never called me Nazi or a "Retard" hater. All you did was agree to disagree and we went on our merry way. ;) so you take down that .44 and oil it up good. :)
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Fair enough.
And?
I'm way more liberal than most people on gun forums. And I'm an avid gun collector and life long hand loader that believes deeply in the constitutional right to keep and bear arms and in marksmanship as an American tradition.
Am I not welcome on the 2ahawaii forum because I lean more left than most here?
I'm not saying that I feel like I've been told to go elsewhere: I don't and I haven't. Just pointing out that I am very definitely on the right forum as is crazy cat. And that you do have allies on the other side of the political isle. You sure you want to lump them in with your enemies on the other side of the isle just because? Or is there such a thing as an ally on the other side of the isle for you?
Anyway. Sorry. Now I'm threadjacking. :oops: I'm just surprised at how quickly and often a discussion becomes 'What?! You aren't 100% us? Then you must be 100% them! Git the bleedin' heart liberal, boys!!!"
But... enough. Gotta strip the .44 lever and oil it before company comes over tonight.
I didnt know I had enemies on the other side of the "isle" (pun intended).
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So far I have seen examples of what some (questionably) bad officer have done, who are not in the Sheriff. Their actions have nothing to do with the actions of the sheriff or the effectiveness on recidivism of offenders. Show me some penal systems that work better, save money, and also contribute to the community. I see a bunch of QQ about the bad, what about him significantly reducing the operating expenses of the human society and greatly improving the quality of life for the dogs and others?
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Imagine you are the mother of a mentally handicapped thirty-three-year-old-man. Your son functions on the level of a twelve-year-old boy. His disability often causes him to act erratically, but you still hope that one day, he can lead a normal life. One night in August, 2001, he is arrested on a misdemeanor loitering charge when he begins acting strangely in a convenience store. When officers arrive to arrest him, he is clinging to the store's coffee machine and won't let go. Four officers forcibly remove him from the store, handcuff him, and throw him to the ground to be hogtied. The force seems excessive, since your son is disabled and only weighs about a hundred and thirty pounds. A few minutes later, his limbs bound behind his tiny frame, officers load him into the squad car to take him away. Before they pull away, your son asks you, like a little kid:
"Mom, will you ride in the car with me?"
"I can't," you tell him, "the police won't let me."
You figure that the police will probably hold your son overnight, and you head home to get some rest.
Two hours later, your son is dead.
When Charles Agster arrives at Madison Street Jail, he is confused, as is typical of his condition. He tries to wriggle underneath a bench, and although he is still hogtied, three or more officers and a sheriff's deputy jump on him, punch him, and knee him in the side. One officer grips his face, pressing upward toward his chin. Although he is now unresponsive, the officers drag him, face down, into the Intake area and strap him into a restraint chair. They place a spit-hood over his head, encasing him in darkness. Minutes later, he stops breathing. The original autopsy lists "positional asphyxia due to restraint" as his cause of death.
Videotape of the incident shows guards trying to resuscitate Agster, but he's already brain dead. A 2002 Amnesty International report expresses concern "that the degree of force used against Agster was grossly disproportionate to any threat posed by him."
http://www.arpaio.com/ (http://www.arpaio.com/)
Since you didn't read it the first time
Your dysfunctional 33 year old was also a meth head. The brain damaged guy didn't die from the cops - he died from 17 times over the unsafe limit of amphetamines.
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So I ask once again, why does he keep getting elected?? It's sad the a mentally retarded kid died in jail, but I ask, why didn't the parents go to the jail with him in there own car? You can do that. And this guy saying that "the bed was only 4' 2" people around the world die from just falling out of the shower, or walking down the street and just slipping, it all depends on how and where you hit your head. I not in anyway advocating police brutality at all, but if not thing was done there was no hard evidents or the cops including Joe would have been thrown in prison for murder. Your right DOJ does work on evidents, but they have none and they've been watching him for the past four years if not longer you would think that they had something on him already. He is elected and payed to do a job, and that job envoles protecting that people and he's doing his job.
Like I said the, sad very sad that they died in custody but seams like something is missing from it, once again where we're the parents?? Usually mentally disturbed people go straight to the a mental hospital to be monitored I know cause I got into a scuffle and arrested one. And he was taken straight to mahilona for observation.
But if he does end up with a civil rights violation from the DOJ I'll eat my words and he deserves every bit of it.
This was my thought exactly.
As far as the DOJ operating on evidence, which department was it that ran Fast & Furious, again? Who was it that failed to follow up on the Black Panther voter intimidation? There are undoubtedly more examples of Holder's incompetence, and I think the drawn-out investigation of Arpaio is one of them. As was said, it's a real shame that some people died in custody, but it's kind of the way the cookie crumbles, and it happens every year, probably at nearly every major detention facility in the country. Amnesty International is a bunch of loons, and the fact that it gets really, really, hot in Tent City does not give me a moment's pause in applauding Sheriff Joe.
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Imagine you are the mother of a mentally handicapped thirty-three-year-old-man. Your son functions on the level of a twelve-year-old boy. His disability often causes him to act erratically, but you still hope that one day, he can lead a normal life. One night in August, 2001, he is arrested on a misdemeanor loitering charge when he begins acting strangely in a convenience store. When officers arrive to arrest him, he is clinging to the store's coffee machine and won't let go. Four officers forcibly remove him from the store, handcuff him, and throw him to the ground to be hogtied. The force seems excessive, since your son is disabled and only weighs about a hundred and thirty pounds. A few minutes later, his limbs bound behind his tiny frame, officers load him into the squad car to take him away. Before they pull away, your son asks you, like a little kid:
"Mom, will you ride in the car with me?"
"I can't," you tell him, "the police won't let me."
You figure that the police will probably hold your son overnight, and you head home to get some rest.
Two hours later, your son is dead.
When Charles Agster arrives at Madison Street Jail, he is confused, as is typical of his condition. He tries to wriggle underneath a bench, and although he is still hogtied, three or more officers and a sheriff's deputy jump on him, punch him, and knee him in the side. One officer grips his face, pressing upward toward his chin. Although he is now unresponsive, the officers drag him, face down, into the Intake area and strap him into a restraint chair. They place a spit-hood over his head, encasing him in darkness. Minutes later, he stops breathing. The original autopsy lists "positional asphyxia due to restraint" as his cause of death.
Videotape of the incident shows guards trying to resuscitate Agster, but he's already brain dead. A 2002 Amnesty International report expresses concern "that the degree of force used against Agster was grossly disproportionate to any threat posed by him."
http://www.arpaio.com/ (http://www.arpaio.com/)
Since you didn't read it the first time
Your dysfunctional 33 year old was also a meth head. The brain damaged guy didn't die from the cops - he died from 17 times over the unsafe limit of amphetamines.
And the plot thickens.....
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Arpaio is a fascist. He is not interested in enforcing the laws, but legalizing slavery.
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and the lurking conspiracy theorists emerge....
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Arpaio is a fascist. He is not interested in enforcing the laws, but legalizing slavery.
What is wrong with making prisoners pay back their debt to society? Prisoners in Australia *built* their prisons. There is no reason you can't and shouldn't use prisoners to do work details, make small goods for the public, clean and manage facilities like the humane society, and so forth.
Why should a tax-payer spend about 35k-60k dollars per head and get nothing in return? We are *PAYING* to rehab him - they should work every penny of that money off back to the community.
Think about it, why should we pay some workers to go and clean out the homeless camps - we have prisoners who would like to see the light of day and will work. If they don't want to work, that is fine -- go sit in your cell all day.
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forced labor camps make great profits for the private prison industrial complex, which in turn influence politicians and judges with $donations$ aka bribes to pass tougher criminal laws that institutionalize more people who would otherwise be leading productive lives. look up 'kids for cash' and tell me there ain't something wrong with prison profiteering. It's actually soaking up your tax dollars. How come you tax-hating Republicans aren't all over this? Is it the tough-talk that sold you? I swear all someone has to do is say a few key words like tough-on-crime and you guys are swooning. It's a completely Pavlovian response of course.
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forced labor camps make great profits for the private prison industrial complex, which in turn influence politicians and judges with $donations$ aka bribes to pass tougher criminal laws that institutionalize more people who would otherwise be leading productive lives. look up 'kids for cash' and tell me there ain't something wrong with prison profiteering. It's actually soaking up your tax dollars. How come you tax-hating Republicans aren't all over this? Is it the tough-talk that sold you? I swear all someone has to do is say a few key words like tough-on-crime and you guys are swooning. It's a completely Pavlovian response of course.
I can tell you this, the majority of Federal prisons are currently cutting back on their Unicor factories due to budget constraints. In doing so, more and more inmates go without work assignments, which leaves them running around the yard more, which leads to moving contraband, which leads to gangs fighting for dominance, which leads to staff intervention, which leads to incidences such as the murder of Officer Jose Rivera (http://www.odmp.org/officer/19433-correctional-officer-jose-rivera). The inmates themselves will tell you without work, they get into bad shit. Inmates dont become inmates from leading productive lives.
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First of all, I'm not a republican. Secondly, I while I have not worked in the prison, I do have a fair academic knowledge of the subject considering I am in my last semesters of a criminal justice major that focused on prisons and security.
As far as tougher laws go, people could stop doing drugs. It's not that hard - just don't do it. Private prisons do a better job with less money than a normal facility.
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First of all, I'm not a republican. Secondly, I while I have not worked in the prison, I do have a fair academic knowledge of the subject considering I am in my last semesters of a criminal justice major that focused on prisons and security.
As far as tougher laws go, people could stop doing drugs. It's not that hard - just don't do it. Private prisons do a better job with less money than a normal facility.
Impossible! No for-profit venture is capable of topping the altruism and benevolent efficiency of the State!
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Wanna make commie comparisons? How about 6 million people under 'correctional supervision'? That's more than they heyday of Stalin's gulag. The current solutions are not working and are making the problem even worse.
Then on top of that the prison industrial complex has to make itself more profitable to appeal to share holders, so they are forced to cut corners and put people in terrible conditions that teach them how to be, you guessed it, more ruthless and efficient criminals.
Also keep in mind I give my democrat friends a lot of grief as well, especially for unwavering support of Obama the warmonger. The reason I said Republicans instead of Conservatives is there is nothing conservative about Republicans these days. The founding fathers didn't come up with today's twisted party platform, a bunch of psychopaths did.
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First of all, I'm not a republican. Secondly, I while I have not worked in the prison, I do have a fair academic knowledge of the subject considering I am in my last semesters of a criminal justice major that focused on prisons and security.
As far as tougher laws go, people could stop doing drugs. It's not that hard - just don't do it. Private prisons do a better job with less money than a normal facility.
Impossible! No for-profit venture is capable of topping the altruism and benevolent efficiency of the State!
Private prisons do a great job up until the point the inmates take the yard and burn the place down, leaving the Feds to clean up the mess, I missed this one by a matter of months...
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,486344,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,486344,00.html)
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Alcatraz was over run? Lots of government prisons have been over run, its what happens when you are not hard enough on the people or you slip up in your security.
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[color =red]Alcatraz was over run?[/color] Lots of government prisons have been over run, its what happens when you are not hard enough on the people or you slip up in your security.
Did you even read my post or the link it referenced? The rest of your statement, you know from experience? Im gonna give you a chance to brush up on your BOP history before we go down this road...
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Your post insinuates that the work private prisons do is some how sub-par to what Federal BOP does. Even the Feds have been over-run, had their prisons shut down, burned, and rioted in.
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Here's a question that I want to pose to both sides; What is the purpose of prisons? I don't mean the obvious 'To hold prisoners' response but more along the lines of what the end goal is.
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Here's a question that I want to pose to both sides; What is the purpose of prisons? I don't mean the obvious 'To hold prisoners' response but more along the lines of what the end goal is.
Deter crime, for a person to retribute for the crimes they committed, and rehab. The other purpose (which I forgot for a second) is to incapacitate (i.e., we will have some people we just can't fix - they are crazy -- they want to kill. We need to remove them from the streets because it is viable threat to society and the well being of others or themselves).
However, the last one is becoming increasingly hard to manage because of money and politics. It's hard to rehab when funding is cut, because rehab takes teachers, instructors, therapists etc.
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The purpose is to institutionalize people, same as school. You make people think and act and speak the same way so that they are completely dependent on the system, and it makes them much easier to control. Check out videos about Stanford prison experiment. The freaky part is that DOJ people are so heavily influenced by the culture that they don't realize they are institutionalized, influenced, and controlled just as much as the suspects and inmates they are in charge of.
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The purpose is to institutionalize people, same as school. You make people think and act and speak the same way so that they are completely dependent on the system, and it makes them much easier to control. Check out videos about Stanford prison experiment. The freaky part is that DOJ people are so heavily influenced by the culture that they don't realize they are institutionalized, influenced, and controlled just as much as the suspects and inmates they are in charge of.
So what penalty should society impose on rapists or murderers?
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The purpose is to institutionalize people, same as school. You make people think and act and speak the same way so that they are completely dependent on the system, and it makes them much easier to control. Check out videos about Stanford prison experiment. The freaky part is that DOJ people are so heavily influenced by the culture that they don't realize they are institutionalized, influenced, and controlled just as much as the suspects and inmates they are in charge of.
So what penalty should society impose on rapists or murderers?
If I were in charge of this decision, cold blooded murderers would get the death penalty.
Rapists of children would get 1/2 hour tied in a room with the victims family.
Rapists of adults would be castrated.
I'm talking about real rape, not the bullshit date rape, because some girl is mad you didn't call her the next day, crap.
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The purpose is to institutionalize people, same as school. You make people think and act and speak the same way so that they are completely dependent on the system, and it makes them much easier to control. Check out videos about Stanford prison experiment. The freaky part is that DOJ people are so heavily influenced by the culture that they don't realize they are institutionalized, influenced, and controlled just as much as the suspects and inmates they are in charge of.
So what penalty should society impose on rapists or murderers?
If I were in charge of this decision, cold blooded murderers would get the death penalty.
Rapists of children would get 1/2 hour tied in a room with the victims family.
Rapists of adults would be castrated.
I'm talking about real rape, not the bullshit date rape, because some girl is mad you didn't call her the next day, crap.
BWAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHH
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The purpose is to institutionalize people, same as school. You make people think and act and speak the same way so that they are completely dependent on the system, and it makes them much easier to control. Check out videos about Stanford prison experiment. The freaky part is that DOJ people are so heavily influenced by the culture that they don't realize they are institutionalized, influenced, and controlled just as much as the suspects and inmates they are in charge of.
So what penalty should society impose on rapists or murderers?
If I were in charge of this decision, cold blooded murderers would get the death penalty.
Rapists of children would get 1/2 hour tied in a room with the victims family.
Rapists of adults would be castrated.
I'm talking about real rape, not the bullshit date rape, because some girl is mad you didn't call her the next day, crap.
I second the gentleman's motion.
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Sheriff Joe Arpaio’s top lawyer disbarred, facing criminal charges
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/04/10/sheriff-joe-arpaios-top-lawyer-facing-disbarment/ (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/04/10/sheriff-joe-arpaios-top-lawyer-facing-disbarment/)
They were Republican Arizona’s golden boys, the plain-spoken, get-tough sheriff and his legal and political foil, Sheriff Joe Arpaio and attorney Andrew Thomas. According to a post at Talking Points Memo, Thomas “might have had a bright career in Arizona politics,” but instead is today facing disbarment, criminal charges and professional disgrace.
In his six-year reign as Maricopa County’s top prosecutor, Thomas and Sheriff Arpaio went on a legal rampage against their perceived political enemies, drumming up and pursuing criminal charges that they knew were false, charges that rarely held up under scrutiny. As a result, say investigators, Thomas “undermined the public trust and inflicted great damage to the system of justice. The only way to restore that trust and to repair the damage to the system is to disbar Thomas.”
After both men were reelected to their positions in 2008, they escalated what had been a policy of ongoing political infighting and elevated it to a crusade, using the sheriff’s office to file spurious criminal charges against their political enemies, including the 14 public officials who made up the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors.
However, none of the charges stuck. Often, Arpaio and Thomas failed to provide evidence that they had promised the court. In other instances, the statutes of limitations had long expired on the alleged misdeeds.
Investigators say that Thomas and Aubuchon knew that the cases they were pursuing were bogus, but pressed ahead anyway, hoping to muddy the waters enough to permanently damage their opponents’ reputations. Investigators have labeled this practice perjury, and as such punishable by the termination of their licenses to practice law.
UPDATE (12:22pm): According to the Phoenix New Times’ “Valley Fever” blog, the disciplinary panel at the Arizona State Supreme Court has disbarred Andrew Thomas, Lisa Aubuchon and Rachel Alexander. Some charges were dismissed, but the panel found “clear and compelling evidence” that Thomas and his aides had abused their prosecutorial powers when pursuing charges against members of the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors as well as multiple political enemies.
The charges, said the board, were not filed in pursuit of justice, but to embarrass and inconvenience their opponents. Thomas and Aubuchon were also found to have been uncooperative and deceitful in the process of the investigation.
:rofl:
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And the Department of Justice files suit. Time for a bunch of folks to eat their hats.....
http://www.justice.gov/iso/opa/resources/46420125101544060757.pdf (http://www.justice.gov/iso/opa/resources/46420125101544060757.pdf)
:popcorn:
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And the Department of Justice files suit.
That's it!!! Sheriff Joe MUST be guilty if the DOJ files suit. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Isn't there a way citizens can fire holder?
I can't wait to fire Obama. And the rest of his cohorts.
How about you?
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That's it!!! Sheriff Joe MUST be guilty if the DOJ files suit. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
And everyone Sheriff Joe's deputies arrest must be guilty of a capital offence. ::)
Civilization is based on a clearly defined and widely accepted yet often
unarticulated hierarchy. Violence done by those higher on the hierarchy
to those lower is nearly always invisible, that is, unnoticed. When it is
noticed, it is fully rationalized. Violence done by those lower on the
hierarchy to those higher is unthinkable, and when it does occur is
regarded with shock, horror, and the fetishization of the victims.
Derrik Jensen
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And time for Sheriff Joe haters to eat crow:
Government shuts probe of controversial Arizona sheriff, no charges filed
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/01/us-usa-arizona-arpaio-idUSBRE88000F20120901 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/01/us-usa-arizona-arpaio-idUSBRE88000F20120901)
oops.............
And the Department of Justice files suit. Time for a bunch of folks to eat their hats.....
http://www.justice.gov/iso/opa/resources/46420125101544060757.pdf (http://www.justice.gov/iso/opa/resources/46420125101544060757.pdf)
:popcorn:
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"Isn't there a way citizens can fire holder?"
How are you going to do this when the "person of interest" is in charge of the evidence repository?
(http://i1-news.softpedia-static.com/images/news2/Radar-System-Information-Revealed-Because-of-Incorrectly-Redacted-Document-2.jpg)
They don't call them "Magic" Markers for nothing, y'know.
There are of course legitimate reasons for holding back information in "ongoing investigations," but something has to be done when the "person of interest" declares that he's doin' his own internal investigatin'.
Or can shut down information because of "National Security."
Or "Executive Privilege."
Terry, 230RN
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The honest truth is NOBODY would do the hard jobs if not for the immigrants.
You never see anybody else working in 110 degree heat picking lettuce for 12 hours a day for minimum wage except for immigrants.
I don't think illegal immigrants should be hired but the truth is that they have fake birth certificates, shared social security numbers and other ways to trick the employers into hiring them.
If you go after the companies that provide inexpensive produce and chicken then the prices go up and everybody complains that the prices are too high.
In college And high school I did many jobs where I worked outdoors such as construction, Rock Wall (lava rock) and picking fruit. I have friends that currently hold these kinds of jobs. However they do make more minimum-wage (not much). And I have friends that are looking for jobs, who would even take these kinds of jobs. There are also lots of felons who cant find work and this kind of work is a chance for them to change there lives around... it hard to change from a life of crime especially when there are no jobs.....
and to quote Paul Ryan.
"College graduates should not have to live out their 20s in their childhood bedrooms, staring up at fading Obama posters and wondering when they can move out and get going with life."
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In college And high school I did many jobs where I worked outdoors such as construction, Rock Wall (lava rock) and picking fruit.
EXACTLY... Everyone did a work program in high school and college. It's like a scared straight program. You realize what you don't want to do for the rest of your life.
I have friends that currently hold these kinds of jobs. However they do make more minimum-wage (not much).
I'm calling bullshit
And I have friends that are looking for jobs, who would even take these kinds of jobs.
They're always hiring, if they would actually take the jobs, they would already work there. Typical Americans are too lazy or proud to work
12 hour work days in 110 degree temperature.
There are also lots of felons who cant find work and this kind of work is a chance for them to change there lives around... it hard to change from a life of crime especially when there are no jobs.....
Yeah, let's all just go out and hire meth addicts, sex offenders, and murderers.
90% of felons, are back in jail within 5 years of their release, most commit the exact same crimes that put them in there.
It's not lack of jobs that is the reason that they won't "change their lives around" it's the fact that they're social deviants that have something seriously wrong with them.
If you feel so bad for the unemployed felons, you hire them as baby sitters for your children.
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In college And high school I did many jobs where I worked outdoors such as construction, Rock Wall (lava rock) and picking fruit.
EXACTLY... Everyone did a work program in high school and college. It's like a scared straight program. You realize what you don't want to do for the rest of your life.
I have friends that currently hold these kinds of jobs. However they do make more minimum-wage (not much).
I'm calling bullshit
And I have friends that are looking for jobs, who would even take these kinds of jobs.
They're always hiring, if they would actually take the jobs, they would already work there. Typical Americans are too lazy or proud to work
12 hour work days in 110 degree temperature.
There are also lots of felons who cant find work and this kind of work is a chance for them to change there lives around... it hard to change from a life of crime especially when there are no jobs.....
Yeah, let's all just go out and hire meth addicts, sex offenders, and murderers.
90% of felons, are back in jail within 5 years of their release, most commit the exact same crimes that put them in there.
It's not lack of jobs that is the reason that they won't "change their lives around" it's the fact that they're social deviants that have something seriously wrong with them.
If you feel so bad for the unemployed felons, you hire them as baby sitters for your children.
No... it starting at the bottom and putting in your time to move up
call it all you want i am from the big island i graduated from kealakehe high school and It is not like Honolulu they are not high-paying jobs all over the place you take what you can get and try to move up. my graduating class there were only 189 people that walk the freshman class was 700-ish people
And what is a typical American?
And who cares if sex offenders and meth heads are picking fruit Or cleaning brush off the side of the road or doing jobs far away from the average person
and no you dont have to have them watching your Children...
And one of the reasons this sociologist think that the recidivism rate is so high is because of lack of stable employment for these people...
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armsinc said (welcome aboard, by the way):
And one of the reasons this sociologist think(s) that the recidivism rate is so high is because of lack of stable employment for these people...
I believe that's true. I've often thought of requiring them to join the military for non-combat (i.e., non- shooting) positions. There are an awful lot of "rear echelon" support positions that can be filled by folks like that which involve training transferable to the civilian side --Signal Corps, cooks, maintenance personnel, clerking, etc.
Maybe we could "sort of" expunge their records after satisfactory completion of their military hitch, like witness protection programs do, but with required reporting to some kind of probation official just to make sure that they aren't opening child care centers or going to work for a bank and the like. That business of having their records follow them forever is what armsinc refers to, I think.
But what do I know? I've never been in the military and I sure ain't a corrections expert.
Just throwing that out there.
Terry, 230RN
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armsinc said (welcome aboard, by the way):
I believe that's true. I've often thought of requiring them to join the military for non-combat (i.e., non- shooting) positions. There are an awful lot of "rear echelon" support positions that can be filled by folks like that which involve training transferable to the civilian side --Signal Corps, cooks, maintenance personnel, clerking, etc.
Maybe we could "sort of" expunge their records after satisfactory completion of their military hitch, like witness protection programs do, but with required reporting to some kind of probation official just to make sure that they aren't opening child care centers or going to work for a bank and the like. That business of having their records follow them forever is what armsinc refers to, I think.
But what do I know? I've never been in the military and I sure ain't a corrections expert.
Just throwing that out there.
Terry, 230RN
I agree 230rn
and yes it is true there are just bad people that wont change....
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I went to job corps, where numerous people who were questionable also attended. People screwed around, worried about how to get cigarettes, and screwed themselves up. I personally think it is an attitude problem. I think most of them have an attitude problem. I firmly believe if you want work, you can find it, and when you can't find it - create it.
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I went to job corps, where numerous people who were questionable also attended. People screwed around, worried about how to get cigarettes, and screwed themselves up. I personally think it is an attitude problem. I think most of them have an attitude problem. I firmly believe if you want work, you can find it, and when you can't find it - create it.
+1 :thumbsup:
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A lot of it is an attitude problem, partially because of upbringing --or more correctly, lack of it --and there are undoubtedly inherently "bad" people with no conscience or "superego" who ought to be kept out of society.
But for those who've served their time, paid their debt, have "reformed," and want to continue with their lives as productive members of society, it's very difficult to get over that hump toward legal self-sufficiency when their records follow them forever, and every Tom, Dick, and Terry (and Human Resources Depatment) has access to correctional records on their computer.
Amusingly, the ad that appeared over Heavies' post was this one:
(http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/simgad/2783689655803113666)
The "real" problem with all this is the simple fact that legal "punishments" have expanded "extra-legally," if you will, into a lifelong punishment sequence.
Every sentence has become a life sentence.
This is not the way to restore a criminal as a useful member of society. As noted several times herein, this results in a high percentage of recidivism for the obvious reasons noted above.
The only solution as I see it is as I previously mentioned (see REF): a retraining stint, perhaps in the military, but wherever, expungement of records available to the public, a legal device to allow former inmates to "lie" about their records on things like employment applications, and a monitored --not "probation" per se, but "mentored," if you will --period after release and re-training.
Wild idea? Crazy?
But repeatedly doing what doesn't work, as with our present correctional system, is a popular definition of "crazy."
Terry, 230RN
REF:
http://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=2646.msg40967#msg40967 (http://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=2646.msg40967#msg40967)