2aHawaii
Tools and Uses => Reloading => Topic started by: rklapp on February 04, 2017, 01:45:13 PM
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I have the 300 AAC cases, now I need powder and bullets. I have the powders but of course none that are listed in the Hornady manual. Could you recommend I try any of these? Reloader 15, AR Comp, CFE223, H335, IMR 4895, 700x, Some Win748 and a small amount of Varget.
The Lee x39 has ball expanders for .308 and .311. I've read that domestic AK47 have .308 and overseas have .310 and the Hornady manual has data for both. I've not been able to figure out what my Molot VEPR rifle is. The manual says 7.62 mm which converts to .3 inches. I tried boring the rifle with a lead ball but didn't work despite several Youtube videos. I've had good success with the Tulammo and American Eagle, both measures at .308. What do you suggest?
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I have the 300 AAC cases, now I need powder and bullets. I have the powders but of course none that are listed in the Hornady manual. Could you recommend I try any of these? Reloader 15, AR Comp, CFE223, H335, IMR 4895, 700x, Some Win748 and a small amount of Varget.
The Lee x39 has ball expanders for .308 and .311. I've read that domestic AK47 have .308 and overseas have .310 and the Hornady manual has data for both. I've not been able to figure out what my Molot VEPR rifle is. The manual says 7.62 mm which converts to .3 inches. I tried boring the rifle with a lead ball but didn't work despite several Youtube videos. I've had good success with the Tulammo and American Eagle, both measures at .308. What do you suggest?
1680 is the reference powder used by AAC when developing the round
second best choice is 4227
we have also used H110 and magnum pistol powders (lil gun, and one other i cannot remember)
but 1680 and 4227 are by far the best
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The photo I attached above was for x39 and attached is 300 AAC. I see that 1680 is on both charts. I know that WGS has 1680 but not at SEC. I guess it's time for another trip to WGS. My powder shelf keeps growing faster than I can shoot it. I'm not sure if that's a good problem to have or not now that we're living in Trump's country.
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I have the 300 AAC cases, now I need powder and bullets. I have the powders but of course none that are listed in the Hornady manual. Could you recommend I try any of these? Reloader 15, AR Comp, CFE223, H335, IMR 4895, 700x, Some Win748 and a small amount of Varget.
The 300 BLK cartridge case is very small. I am sure you noticed LOL Becuase of that you have to use magnum pistol powders in order to obtain the pressures necessary to get the velocities needed. So none of your rifle powders will work. Your rifle powders don't burn fast enough. All of the powders Mac mentioned are great powders. I use H110 and W296 with excellent results.
Have you decided if you are going to load subsonic or supersonic or both? I found I get better accuracy and better reliability with supersonic loads. If you are going to load supersonic I can recommend Sierra 125gr and 135gr bullets as well as Speer 130gr Hot Cor bullets.
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The 300 BLK cartridge case is very small. I am sure you noticed LOL Becuase of that you have to use magnum pistol powders in order to obtain the pressures necessary to get the velocities needed. So none of your rifle powders will work. Your rifle powders don't burn fast enough. All of the powders Mac mentioned are great powders. I use H110 and W296 with excellent results.
Have you decided if you are going to load subsonic or supersonic or both? I found I get better accuracy and better reliability with supersonic loads. If you are going to load supersonic I can recommend Sierra 125gr and 135gr bullets as well as Speer 130gr Hot Cor bullets.
What about the slow burning 700x? I've read of people using about 6.5 gn with 180 gn bullet.
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What about the slow burning 700x? I've read of people using about 6.5 gn with 180 gn bullet.
Are you loading for a single shot or bolt action rifle? It might work but is it worth the risk to save a few bucks? I still would not use 700-X. If you are loading for an AR it won't work. The 700-X burns way too fast. If you are loading for an AR you need a powder that burns in the range of the powders mentioned. Which is much slower than 700-X and much faster than the rifle powders you have. You should study the burn rate chart to learn which powders are similar if you don't like the powders that have been recommended to you here.
Using the powders with the correct burn rate for the cartridge/bullet/platform is smart and safe reloading. Trying to save a buck and trusting load data from people on the Internet is not something I would do. JMHO. :shaka: :shaka: :shaka:
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I used H110 with no issues and have also heard W296 is good for 300 blkout. Used Sierra 125 gr.
A good place with knowledge about 300 blkout is Prime Sports HI on Nimitz.
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H110 and W296 are the same powder. I use W296 with magnum primers, 220 grain Berry's bullets, subsonic.
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You should study the burn rate chart to learn which powders are similar if you don't like the powders that have been recommended to you here.
I've seen the burn rate chart that lists them in order but haven't seen one that is specific for 300 BLK nor any other caliber. I guess I'm missing something. It's not that I don't like the powders, it's that I don't want to waste powder. I'll probably end up buying a bottle of 1680 from WGS.
Separate question, I tried the 700x in my MN using the load data in the cast bullet manual. It hit paper but wasn't accurate. I think it might be because I need to use a filler. Where do I get kapok or could I use TP or polyfill. I've seen a video where the polyfill started to gum up the barrel but thought I'd ask since I have a bag of it in the garage.
Also, does anyone have an answer to my x39 question? Mahalo.
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For super loads, I use Lil Gun.
For Subs, I've used 4198. I'm almost out of my 1lb bottle, but I was planning on switching to 1680 after my 4198 is done.
With a 16" barrel and a pistol gas system, I could get the subs to cycle with Lil Gun. For my 16" barrel and carbine gas, I couldn't get Lil Gun to cycle.
All are shot out of an AR.
Let me know if you want to trade some of your 223 powder for Lil Gun.
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With a 16" barrel and a pistol gas system, I could get the subs to cycle with Lil Gun. For my 16" barrel and carbine gas, I couldn't get Lil Gun to cycle.
yeah, i agree on this point
the carbine gas system is more difficult to load for with subs
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I've seen the burn rate chart that lists them in order but haven't seen one that is specific for 300 BLK nor any other caliber. I guess I'm missing something. It's not that I don't like the powders, it's that I don't want to waste powder. I'll probably end up buying a bottle of 1680 from WGS.
Separate question, I tried the 700x in my MN using the load data in the cast bullet manual. It hit paper but wasn't accurate. I think it might be because I need to use a filler. Where do I get kapok or could I use TP or polyfill. I've seen a video where the polyfill started to gum up the barrel but thought I'd ask since I have a bag of it in the garage.
Also, does anyone have an answer to my x39 question? Mahalo.
There is no powder that is specific for 300 BLK or any other caliber. This is why you reload and test. However, there is a range of burn speed that is specific to the platform/cartridge/bullet you are using. For instance, generally speaking in rifle powders you would use faster burning powders for lighter bullets and slower burning powders for heavier bullets. Then there are the magnum cartridges which use an even slower burning powder. I would say generally speaking IMR4198 is probably the cut off between slower rifle powders and faster burning pistol powders. The same general rule of thumb also applies to pistol powders. The slower pistol powders are used for magnum cartridges for a magnum load. If you use a faster burning powder you won't push the bullet up to magnum speeds. And then you get into the shotgun powders which are the fastest burning of the powders. The line is too blurred between pistol and shotgun powders so I won't even try to say where that line is.
With that said Hodgdon just started marketing a powder specifically for 300 BLK. Of course it is in the same burn rate as the powders we listed above. Technically speaking it is not specifically designed for 300 BLK as it can also be used in magnum pistol cartridges as well. It is just a marketing tool. I will bet they sell a ton of it at a higher price than the bottle of whatever powder with almost the exact same burn rate.
Then there are powder uses outside the general norm. Like the 300 BLK. Because the developers of this carriage were trying to recreate the velocities of the 7.62x39 cartridge they had to use a little faster burning powder than the traditional rifle powder. Which is why magnum pistol powders are used. Which is also why you don't want to use a powder too far outside the general burn speeds that the cartridge/bullet/platform was designed for.
To continue with uses outside the norm you found by reading the Internet that shooting a single shot/bolt action rifle opens up a world of different choices for reduced loads. People found that a very small amount of fast burning pistol/shotgun powder in a big rifle cartridge gives you a slow moving bullet capable of ringing a gong or grouping decently at 50-100 yards. But this same misuse of powder does not work with a semi auto which is designed to be used with a cartridge that develops a specific range of pressure. Let me just say that the misuse of powder in any application has risks.
In order to ring out maximum accuracy out of any rifle you need to use the correct bullet for your particular rifle (not the bullet designed for your rifle). Like with a MN having such a variety of different bore diameters that you need to find out what your bore diameter is and use the correct bullet for your specific rifle in order to get the accuracy these rifle are capable of. This also means using the right powder for the bullet that works. That is why I always suggest using only published powders in the amounts listed. I found the listed most accurate loads are sometimes absolutely correct in my guns. That is why they list them. Using loads from anonymous people from the Internet has risks as well. I would suggest you stick to published data until you find the best bullet/load for your gun and then experiment with using the incorrect powder for light loads and economy.
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With that said Hodgdon just started marketing a powder specifically for 300 BLK. Of course it is in the same burn rate as the powders we listed above. Technically speaking it is not specifically designed for 300 BLK as it can also be used in magnum pistol cartridges as well. It is just a marketing tool. I will bet they sell a ton of it at a higher price than the bottle of whatever powder with almost the exact same burn rate.
http://armsvault.com/2016/11/hodgdon-cfe-blk-powder-300-aac-blackout-cartridge/
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Johnny likes the new powder.
https://youtu.be/SrV5_m6fOhc
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For supersonic 300blk: Hogdon Lil gun / 4227 / H110. I never tried H110, but Lil gun gave the most velocity over 4227.
For subsonic 300blk: a pistol gas barrel and 1680 will make life easy. I have a pistol gas barrel and couldn't get 4227 to cycle subsonic reliably without going supersonic YMMV. :shaka:
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I've been also tinkering around with a few 300 AAC BLK loads with different grain bullets. However, I've stuck with H110 and Lil'gun. I've found that bullets with canneleurs are a pain in the ass to achieve a consistent C.O.A.L +/- 0.008 mainly because the canneleur is normally a smaller diameter than the bullet circumference. (maybe it's just my press setup, meh)
However, I've been using Sierra 125gr SPT bullets at 2.000" with 16.5 grains of Lil'gun (roughly 2100 vel). This is also being shot out of my 16" carbine length gas system, 1:8.5 barrel. Get yourself a Sheridan Case gauge it will save you a lot of trouble. I also notice that if you over crimp .308/9 Diameter bullets it will cause the round to chamber improperly. You can find a nice amount of published 300 BLK data from https://sierrabullets.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/300-aac-blackout.pdf :shaka:
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You can find a nice amount of published 300 BLK data from https://sierrabullets.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/300-aac-blackout.pdf :shaka:
Thanks for the tips. It's interesting that everyone says H110 and 296 are the same powders but I guess not exactly just very, very close.
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Thanks for the tips. It's interesting that everyone says H110 and 296 are the same powders but I guess not exactly just very, very close.
are you using new brass or converted brass?
be sure that you choose your cases to convert carefully
certain brands of brass are too thick in the walls, resulting in rounds getting stuck in the chamber
pm me if you need more details
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Thanks for the tips. It's interesting that everyone says H110 and 296 are the same powders but I guess not exactly just very, very close.
Don't forget that these loads are published for the effective case length mentioned on the first page of the sierra published data. It has to do with how much brass is actually touching the bullet and the COAL. It must be exactly the same as prescribed to push those loads at that velocity.
:shaka:
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WGS gave me a deal on Hornady 300 brass because the price dropped significantly. I guess that's what happens when we start buying something regularly.
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I skimmed through all the posts.. Sorry if someone already answered..
My American eagle x39 ammo all measure .310"
Most eu/ Russian/ etc. use a .310-.311 bore. My ak is .310 bore. I also have 2 ar15s that shoot 7.62x39 (BA barrel is .310, faxon barrel is .308/.310 hybrid barrel).
I say you have a .310". Since it's a molot. I measured all of mines with calipers and contacted manufacturer. And my answer was right on the mark.
I also shoot fiocchi 7.62x39 brass ammo and they are .309" and shoot decently ok.
I also spoke with ddi and Winchester and they both said I can shoot .312" bullets and be fine. I read many many MANY threads on reloading and most people shoot bullets that are no more than .003" larger than their bore and are fine. Of course I never tried cause no one has the pdx1 or razorback ammo on this island for me to try. Lol
Good luck!
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I say you have a .310". Since it's a molot. I measured all of mines with calipers and contacted manufacturer. And my answer was right on the mark.
Makes sense. I've had good success with the .308 bullets but might get better results with .310. OTOH, there's many more options available for .308. Hornady has only two .310 listed and Sierra has none. If I get the .308 bullets, I can also use them in my 300 BLK.
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Yea sir, .308 should shoot fine still. Maybe not sub moa but hey it's an ak variant. Minute of man is all ya need lol. I saw hornady x39 bullets on sale on brownells a week ago or so..
Good luck bro
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WGS gave me a deal on Hornady 300 brass because the price dropped significantly. I guess that's what happens when we start buying something regularly.
How much was it? I cut down all my 223/556 since I have a ton of it given to me free by a friend. I also purchased a 300, 223-556 jig/mini cut off saw for the jig from a friend on the cheep. Requires more work with depriming and swaging but I find it fun to do nonetheless.
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I think it was $29 for 50 in a nice Hornady box.
How much was it? I cut down all my 223/556 since I have a ton of it given to me free by a friend. I also purchased a 300, 223-556 jig/mini cut off saw for the jig from a friend on the cheep. Requires more work with depriming and swaging but I find it fun to do nonetheless.
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I think it was $29 for 50 in a nice Hornady box.
Yikes lol.. for only 50?!. nah, support Sweet Joe and Henry, great guys!
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The 300 BLK cartridge case is very small. I am sure you noticed LOL Becuase of that you have to use magnum pistol powders in order to obtain the pressures necessary to get the velocities needed. So none of your rifle powders will work. Your rifle powders don't burn fast enough. All of the powders Mac mentioned are great powders. I use H110 and W296 with excellent results.
Have you decided if you are going to load subsonic or supersonic or both? I found I get better accuracy and better reliability with supersonic loads. If you are going to load supersonic I can recommend Sierra 125gr and 135gr bullets as well as Speer 130gr Hot Cor bullets.
I bought a bottle of W296 at SEC. Follow up question, what's more important, consistent bullet length or bullet weight or both equal? I'm starting to measure each bullet using my caliper and scale.
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I bought a bottle of W296 at SEC. Follow up question, what's more important, consistent bullet length or bullet weight or both equal? I'm starting to measure each bullet using my caliper and scale.
I have not tried to weigh bullets or measure bullet length with my 300 BLK load data. I have only experimented with playing with cartridge overall length (COL). I found with the rifle I have and the jacketed bullets I have tried that I have not been able to hit the lands and grooves of the chamber as either the bullet was not long enough to touch the lands and grooves without becoming not concentric. Or I ran into the limiting factor of the magazine limiting COL. I did try some lead bullets in my 300 BLK with disappointing results. I did hit the lands and grooves in the chamber with one of the bullets I tried. I just back it down .01" or .02" from where I was touching the lands and grooves. I found little difference in accuracy either way. Don't get me wrong, it did make a very slight difference. Just in very small increments. Sometimes not measurable.
I found in all of my reloading of all cartridge types that the bullet itself has more to do with accuracy and small groups than either grouping by weight and/or bullet length or changing COL. For instance with 62-65 grain bullets in my 5.56 AR I saw 2" groups at 100 yards with Hornady bulk bullets. I saw 1" groups with Sierra 63 grain varmint and 65 grain hunting bullets, Hornady 68 grain match and Nosler 69 grain match. I saw 0.75" with 69 grain Sierra match kings. Then my groups went down to one ragged hole using 64 grain varmint Berger Bullets. All using Federal cases, Varget as my powder and Federal primers. Don't remember if they were the regular or match primers. All cartridge lengths were 2.26" limited by the magazine. As you can see the bullet itself made the biggest difference. Once you find the right bullet and powder combo for your rifle you can fine tune the cartridge by playing with the powder weights, COL and weighing and grouping bullets.
Generally speaking the better quality bullets you use the better consistency in length and weight. So if you use let's say Sierra Match Kings in 125gr or 135gr you should probaly spend more time testing powder weights than measuring length and weight of each bullet as this will show you greater differences than bullet length and weight differences (assuming very small inconsistencies). The W296 you bought is in the sweet spot in burn speed for 125-130gr bullets. Every rifle is different and will have a preference for a particular bullet. When you find that bullet then you can do the fine tuning doing the length and weight groupings.
I hope this helps you.
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I've had great results so far with 1680 and the Hornady 130 gn bullets, so I've started playing around with weight and length but was wondering which was more important.
Generally speaking the better quality bullets you use the better consistency in length and weight. So if you use let's say Sierra Match Kings in 125gr or 135gr you should probaly spend more time testing powder weights than measuring length and weight of each bullet as this will show you greater differences than bullet length and weight differences (assuming very small inconsistencies). The W296 you bought is in the sweet spot in burn speed for 125-130gr bullets. Every rifle is different and will have a preference for a particular bullet. When you find that bullet then you can do the fine tuning doing the length and weight groupings.
I hope this helps you.
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I've had great results so far with 1680 and the Hornady 130 gn bullets, so I've started playing around with weight and length but was wondering which was more important.
Like I said, you'll see very little if any differences assuming minimal inconsistencies with either weight or length grouping. It is literally impossible to tell you which one would cause more of a difference in consistency without very strict testing using strict testing procedures. Each one will cause very different physical characteristics in the cartridge itself.
Various length bullets seated to the exact same COL will change the pressure curve in each cartridge assuming each case has exactly the same volume. The different length bullets will change the capacity of the cartridge. Longer will decrease capacity or compress the powder more and cause higher pressures and shorter bullets will increase the capacity and lower the pressure. Just remember assuming all other variables are the same the difference in results will be very slight.
Various weight bullets will hit at slightly different points of impact. Again, assuming all other variables are the same then the differences will be very slight.
Until you perform your own strict testing to see which one causes a greater difference in your reloads with your particular bullet, powder, cartridge case capacity, it is impossible to answer your question.
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Got it. I'm thinking that weight would be more important than length but like you said, gotta test it.
Until you perform your own strict testing to see which one causes a greater difference in your reloads with your particular bullet, powder, cartridge case capacity, it is impossible to answer your question.
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I'm new to reloading and gearing up for 300 BO. Hope someone can assist with a few questions
1) Cases: can 223 / 5.56 brass randomly picked from the range be trimmed to 300BO and be reused ( have plenty ) provided they pass thickness check
2) 110 V-MAX & CFE BLK. Chart for the CFE BLK calls for CCI-450 (SR Magnum Primer) and Remington brass. Is it possible to use WSR primers (have 1000 ea) and any type of brass or should I get CCI 450 and Remington brass as recommended. Will this change affect the load (GR). How ?
Any kind of input will be much appreciated !
Thanks !
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I'm new to reloading and gearing up for 300 BO. Hope someone can assist with a few questions
1) Cases: can 223 / 5.56 brass randomly picked from the range be trimmed to 300BO and be reused ( have plenty ) provided they pass thickness check
i assume you are talking about this list of thicknesses?
http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=88599
we use FC, LC, WCC, R-P only (makes it easier to remember which ones to discard/save by having a short list)
the worst ever are PMC
these got stuck so hard in the chamber they needed to be bayoneted out
we also use a sheridan case gauge to measure each case
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http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=88599
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Welcome to the forum.
I bought my brass from Kaleo Arms (www.kaleoarms.com). At the Gun Show, I bought 100 processed cases for $12. I haven't read anything about checking thickness. I do use my Lyman gauge. In my experience, the 300BLK is very soft on the brass (unlike my AK) and doesn't need trimming after firing.
I use CCI and Federal match primers. The best place to get them is at SEC. I've used A1680 which is the best powder for 300BLK. I've also used Win296 and Lil Gun. So far, I've used CFEBLK in my AK but will save it for 300BLK next.
I'm using a box of Hornady SST bullets with W296, hopefully at the range tomorrow. After that, I have boxes of Vmax .310 bullets that I'll resize to .308. Eventually, I'll use my box of Hornady match 225 gn that I'll try subsonic.