2aHawaii
General Topics => Health, Fitness, and First Aid => Topic started by: changemyoil66 on February 14, 2017, 09:24:45 AM
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Just found out the CAT tournies I ordered from Amazon are fake. So ordered more from Medical Gear Outfitters an authorized North American Rescue distributor.
So buyers beware!
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Just found out the CAT tournies I ordered from Amazon are fake. So ordered more from Medical Gear Outfitters an authorized North American Rescue distributor.
So buyers beware!
Do you have the link on Amazon, or the make and item numbers? Would be helpful to check against what we might have.
thanks.
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I heard about those a while ago. Surprised that an authorized distributor sold you those. Did you contact them for refund?
I saw a website that compared the real deals to the fakes. I bought a couple from Amazon and mine checked out. I bought mine from Grunt Gear, but that was a while ago. I also bought from other vendors direct.
Sad that it as come to stuff like that. I've been growing increasingly wary of some of the stuff sold on Amazon in the past 6 months or so. Have bought some real lemons.
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I heard about those a while ago. Surprised that an authorized distributor sold you those. Did you contact them for refund?
I saw a website that compared the real deals to the fakes. I bought a couple from Amazon and mine checked out. I bought mine from Grunt Gear, but that was a while ago. I also bought from other vendors direct.
Sad that it as come to stuff like that. I've been growing increasingly wary of some of the stuff sold on Amazon in the past 6 months or so. Have bought some real lemons.
you have a link to that comparison site?
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you have a link to that comparison site?
Recently, I've bought from:
Dark Angel Medical (one with a med kit as well as extra)
North American Rescue
Also another that was a while ago. I'd have to go home and see if I still have the receipt from the order.
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Do you have the link on Amazon, or the make and item numbers? Would be helpful to check against what we might have.
thanks.
It's weird that it's not showing up in my order history anymore. But basically on the back plastic plate, there is no CAT wording or anything. It's blank. Where as NAR ones have wording.
Also on the twisting stick, there is no CAT wording either.
And the red pull tab is stippled in.
Other than those 3, it looks legit. Even has manufacturing date of Oct-2016 when I bought it in September when I became a gun owner.
I called NAR and they confirmed it is a fake. Check out Youtube vids of Skinny Medic, he has vids about fake ones. And NAR confirmed that Medical Outfitters is an authorized CAT dealer.
I tested it and it does compress, but when my life is on the line, I don't want to take chances. But it is better than nothing I guess or a belt. I just ordered more.
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you have a link to that comparison site?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHbRW42-PB0
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I heard about those a while ago. Surprised that an authorized distributor sold you those. Did you contact them for refund?
I saw a website that compared the real deals to the fakes. I bought a couple from Amazon and mine checked out. I bought mine from Grunt Gear, but that was a while ago. I also bought from other vendors direct.
Sad that it as come to stuff like that. I've been growing increasingly wary of some of the stuff sold on Amazon in the past 6 months or so. Have bought some real lemons.
Well it's on Amazon and i'm pretty sure the company isn't an authorized dealer. But the T was $14 each.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aD-KI-4PqtQ
A vid from NAR
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Recently, I've bought from:
Dark Angel Medical (one with a med kit as well as extra)
North American Rescue
Also another that was a while ago. I'd have to go home and see if I still have the receipt from the order.
the site that compares the real to the fakes?
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Well it's on Amazon and i'm pretty sure the company isn't an authorized dealer. But the T was $14 each.
well thats your answer. quality things that dominate the market category they are in dont sell for less than half of the original price.
ive bought from NAR and also bought a fake to practice with, knowing it was fake. as you said they are pretty well built and hard to distinguish from authentic.
i also bought a RAT tourniquet and i feel that the fake CAT tourniquet would be the one id grab if i had to choose between the two. needs a ton of practice to quickly set it on yourself. add stress and sweat and i dont see many people using it on themselves properly. works ok if applying to another individual. cat is still better.
gonna try the sof one next to compare
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Im new to the culture and didnt even realize fake ones were made until i came across skinny medics IG last week.
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the site that compares the real to the fakes?
Oh that. . .
Can't find the original, but here is one that I found with the same information that I recall.
The link is a download to a PDF.
www.nysvara.org/news/2013/july/130717.pdf
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Well it's on Amazon and i'm pretty sure the company isn't an authorized dealer. But the T was $14 each.
Ahh. I see. I misread your OP. You placed a follow-up order with a NAR authorized dealer. Got it.
Any attempt at claim with the vendor of the fakes?
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Im new to the culture and didnt even realize fake ones were made until i came across skinny medics IG last week.
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There are fakes for EVERYTHING!
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There's more fakes out there than legit ones being sold on Amazon and Ebay.. You can't go by price on these things, you have to go with a trusted store. I bought a couple from ebay a couple years ago before I knew there were counterfeights. I'm not sure if they're the real things or not.
One good source of legit CAT's are from military service members. Just don't ask how they got them. :D
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There's more fakes out there than legit ones being sold on Amazon and Ebay.. You can't go by price on these things, you have to go with a trusted store. I bought a couple from ebay a couple years ago before I knew there were counterfeights. I'm not sure if they're the real things or not.
One good source of legit CAT's are from military service members. Just don't ask how they got them. :D
I know a few Army medics and C&C Honolulu EMT/Paramedics. . .
They offered to train us (other friends) on things in med kits. Even offered to "show" me the nasal tube thing on me. Ahh, I learn better if I can try on another person. ;D
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Oh that. . .
Can't find the original, but here is one that I found with the same information that I recall.
The link is a download to a PDF.
www.nysvara.org/news/2013/july/130717.pdf
mahalo
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Ill use the fakes for training. I was gonna contact amazon, but cant find the order in my history.
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Ill use the fakes for training. I was gonna contact amazon, but cant find the order in my history.
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Clearly mark them so they don't get mixed up with real ones.
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Ill use the fakes for training. I was gonna contact amazon, but cant find the order in my history.
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Sounds like you got hacked by the Russians. They seem to be getting blamed for everything these days, so why not fake TQs too? :crazy:
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Its ok cause amazon didnt mean to sell fake TQs.
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Its ok cause amazon didnt mean to sell fake TQs.
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I would try contacting them anyways. Amazon CS has been pretty good to me. I've contacted them about shipping stuff and they've always gotten back to me very quickly. I haven't contacted about some crappy stuff that I've received as I chalked that up to a lesson on "you get what you pay for". But in the case of a counterfeit. If the original order indicated was the real deal, I would be pissed. Even for a $10-15 item.
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I would try contacting them anyways. Amazon CS has been pretty good to me. I've contacted them about shipping stuff and they've always gotten back to me very quickly. I haven't contacted about some crappy stuff that I've received as I chalked that up to a lesson on "you get what you pay for". But in the case of a counterfeit. If the original order indicated was the real deal, I would be pissed. Even for a $10-15 item.
It's not just about your counterfeit item. Amazon needs to know so they can prevent others from buying, too. Other buyers may not know their tourniquet is fake until it's too late.
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It's not just about your counterfeit item. Amazon needs to know so they can prevent others from buying, too. Other buyers may not know their tourniquet is fake until it's too late.
Yup :thumbsup:
I have encountered fake stuff on eBay. In that case, the product manufacturer took the lead in investigating authenticity on their own. Eventually I got a full refund and the vendor claimed that they bought the stock off of another source. Mmmmkay.
In this case, yeah, a fake TQ could affect someone's live if it failed, particularly in the buckle and windlass. Hope Amazon steps up here. That said, again, I've noticed so many crap stuff being sold on their sites. Just hoping that they value CS over volume.
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Amazon has a terrible history of not policing counterfeits on their site. The furniture lifting straps company is close to going out of business because they are out sold by counterfeits by more than 10 to 1. Amazon didn't take responsibility for this or other products sold on their site. They are only recently starting to make a small effort to remove counterfeit items, but it's more a doing something to show they're doing something kinda thing. Amazon doesn't really care, they make money either way.
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/10/24/how-amazon-counterfeits-put-this-mans-business-on-brink-of-collapse.html
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Another story on counterfeits where China copied, manufactured, and sold built in selfy sticks before the inventory could get started.
https://qz.com/771727/chinas-factories-in-shenzhen-can-copy-products-at-breakneck-speed-and-its-time-for-the-rest-of-the-world-to-get-over-it/
Lots of cheap imitations in the firearms world too. Don't support the counterfeiters.
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Heres how you get Real fakes on Amazon
Seller 1 sells the real item, he sells it for $20
Seller 2 sells the real item he sells it for $18
Seller 3 sells a fake item he sells it for $12
Seller 1, 2, 3 all want to get the most sales and to do that they want Amazon to stock and ship their items, They all send their boxs Seller 1 and 2 send 100 each, Seller 3 tho sends 400 to Amazon and Amazon throws them all into a big bin marked Items,
When you order an item from Seller 1, 2 or 3 they are all pulled from the same bin, But 2/3rds of the items are fake. Amazon dosent know there fake because they all look the same and are in the same looking packing and they dont have time to check every item they hold (tens of thousands) to see whats fake and whats not.
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When the real stuff comes in, I'll post pics comparing the 2.
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Past few years I bought some from Amazon and ebay, will check them out. Thanks for bringing it up.
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Must of just bought the CAT TQs from ebay as Amazon doesn't show any order for it. Remember paying about $24 for one. Anyways, checked both for the genuine signs listed in the video including the two turn tightness test of the windlass. All checked out, except in the video, the red tab and the white strap end appears to not show any signs of spot fastening whereas mine does. It's not deeply imbedded but you can see the spots. Hard to tell if mine is the real deal, but they tighten as described so won't buy any more.
Also have two SOF-T TQs mainly because of the metal windlass. It's not the price that determines where I buy from, but the shipping costs to HI.
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Must of just bought the CAT TQs from ebay as Amazon doesn't show any order for it. Remember paying about $24 for one. Anyways, checked both for the genuine signs listed in the video including the two turn tightness test of the windlass. All checked out, except in the video, the red tab and the white strap end appears to not show any signs of spot fastening whereas mine does. It's not deeply imbedded but you can see the spots. Hard to tell if mine is the real deal, but they tighten as described so won't buy any more.
Also have two SOF-T TQs mainly because of the metal windlass. It's not the price that determines where I buy from, but the shipping costs to HI.
I'd check it more. Remember when you use a tourniquet, it's the last effort to save someones life. If something breaks or it fails, the person could die.
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Fakes are getting good. If the red and white look like how u described, its prob fake. Also dont forget the back plate of the plastic.
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A ok/good test would be try on your thigh. It amazed me at how much pressure is actually needed to cut off blood flow to your lower leg. In a class, we practiced both the CAT and improvised TQ on each other. Well, I drew the thigh to test my TQ application on my partner. It was much harder to get the TQ on right than I thought, as in more pressure or turning of the windlass to effectively cut off blood flow.
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A ok/good test would be try on your thigh. It amazed me at how much pressure is actually needed to cut off blood flow to your lower leg. In a class, we practiced both the CAT and improvised TQ on each other. Well, I drew the thigh to test my TQ application on my partner. It was much harder to get the TQ on right than I thought, as in more pressure or turning of the windlass to effectively cut off blood flow.
My ebay order history showed the last was $15 so it may be fake. I'll write to NAR ask them if there was a lot Jun 11 2014 as printed on the black band amd the visible fastening spots. The plastic plate has the logos, NSN, address, and also the patent #s for the U.S., Canada, EU and Israel.
Tried it on the thigh and was able to get 4 turns of the windlass unlike 2 turns on the upper arm. Without flow, not sure how tight that was but my thigh/leg was starting to feel painful and tingly. Both SOF-T TQs were from a reputable company
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My ebay order history showed the last was $15 so it may be fake. I'll write to NAR ask them if there was a lot Jun 11 2014 as printed on the black band amd the visible fastening spots. The plastic plate has the logos, NSN, address, and also the patent #s for the U.S., Canada, EU and Israel.
Tried it on the thigh and was able to get 4 turns of the windlass unlike 2 turns on the upper arm. Without flow, not sure how tight that was but my thigh/leg was starting to feel painful and tingly. Both SOF-T TQs were from a reputable company
Yeah, it can be painful. The proper application is no distal pulse "downstream" from the TQ. I was surprised as how much pressure that took. The guy I was testing on had a good amount of muscle on his thigh and it took quite some effort to get the windlass tightened down enough to not feel the distal pulse in his lower leg.
I also have the SOFTT, but have more of the CAT.
Anyways, hope you get the counterfeits figured out. Not too bad as you're probably out $15-30. Not good, but better than a counterfeit of a more expensive item. Sort of a $15-30 lesson. I have gotten more than a few of that buying cheap stuff on Amazon. :grrr:
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Today got a reply from C-A-T Resources, manufacturer of the C-A-T TQ for NAR based on pics and info I sent them about my ebay TQs. They replied that both are authentic CAT TQs. Pictures are below.
That said I plan to buy 2 new Gen 7 TQs from NAR anyway. Sorry for the upside down pics, still learning.
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Typically for the leg (thigh) 2 is 1 and 1 is none. Especially if there is a lot of muscle on the person.
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Today got a reply from C-A-T Resources, manufacturer of the C-A-T TQ for NAR based on pics and info I sent them about my ebay TQs. They replied that both are authentic CAT TQs. Pictures are below.
That said I plan to buy 2 new Gen 7 TQs from NAR anyway. Sorry for the upside down pics, still learning.
Great news! :thumbsup:
Looks like you got the "good stuff" at a great price. More TQs for training as well as having some that you can place in various places, like car, home, work, etc.
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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170221/49753dc65e22e3a265d68c5e7a78b491.jpg)
Fake one didnt come wrapped or with instructions.
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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170221/5072ea76931b65bf41977aa9ff466302.jpg)
Fake one has no CAT on the back plate. Earlier gens its in white.
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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170221/b88b47f0e18da7b793b6d792d4084db0.jpg)
Bought the fake one in septemer, but it says october. No lot number
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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170221/225195ca310242019d49b35cb383659c.jpg)
Red pull tab is heated on fake one.
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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170221/8626492d7ad400a6594f3348d27a2447.jpg)
Time band looks legit.
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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170221/4a2f5cf6645d86ae0633f8205da79aaa.jpg)
Stick doesnt say CAT on fake one
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Great news! :thumbsup:
Looks like you got the "good stuff" at a great price. More TQs for training as well as having some that you can place in various places, like car, home, work, etc.
Very lucky getting real TQs on ebay. I ordered 2 Gen 7 TQs from NAR today. If you want USPS priority shipping, need to call in the order and tell the CS guy. Shipping for 2 is $9, better than the 2 day air or ground shipping costs.
The good thing about this thread is it made me re-practice using the TQ's again and re-watch the videos for CAT and SOF-T again. Need to remember to practice this periodically. Also added some duct tape to my setup and group med bag to keep the windlass in place.
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Typically for the leg (thigh) 2 is 1 and 1 is none. Especially if there is a lot of muscle on the person.
Thanks for all the pic comparisons. I ordered 2 of the Gen 7 like you show with the gray strap direct from NAR today, so no issue about being fake.
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Very lucky getting real TQs on ebay. I ordered 2 Gen 7 TQs from NAR today. If you want USPS priority shipping, need to call in the order and tell the CS guy. Shipping for 2 is $9, better than the 2 day air or ground shipping costs.
The good thing about this thread is it made me re-practice using the TQ's again and re-watch the videos for CAT and SOF-T again. Need to remember to practice this periodically. Also added some duct tape to my setup and group med bag to keep the windlass in place.
Thanks for the tip on ordering. Shipping is a sensitive issue for me and I have boycotted vendors for limiting shipping options to only expensive FedEx and UPS when I know USPS is reasonable.
Yeah, like anything, application of the TQ's isn't difficult, but when under stress and time to application is critical, one should practice. I haven't in a long time and this thread sort of reminded me that I should. While these are also designed to be applied one handed, it does take some practice.
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I'm learning a lot from this thread.
I was wondering about an expiration date.
Is it 5 years?
I have seen nylon webbing that falls apart after a few years.
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I'm learning a lot from this thread.
I was wondering about an expiration date.
Is it 5 years?
I have seen nylon webbing that falls apart after a few years.
I'm sure NAR can answer your question. But that's why it's a good idea to test your gear at least once a year. I change the water in my BOB every 6 months and audit it annually.
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I'm sure NAR can answer your question. But that's why it's a good idea to test your gear at least once a year. I change the water in my BOB every 6 months and audit it annually.
There's a PDF file on the NARESCUE site that says the US Army Institute of Surgical Research (USAISR) created a list of 7 absolute requirements for tourniquets. #7 says"
"Extended Storage: Must have a shelf life in excess of 10 years."
I emailed them for the specific recommended maximum storage time, but the PDF stated the CAT was evaluated by the Army as "`100% effective" and was selected as the Army's primary pre-hospital tourniquet.
"At least ten years" looks like the official answer for "Expiration".
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I had free shipping from medical gear outfitters (skinny medic)
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Received a reply to my email asking about the maximum shelf life of the C-A-T.
(http://i.imgur.com/8oXMwAH.jpg?1)
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CAT Gen 7 tourniquets direct from North American Rescue come wrapped like this.
https://mail.twc.com/do/mail/message/document?msgId=INBOXDELIM58953&part=2
Ordered Tues. a.m. and arrived today from east coast.
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Pic of NAR TQ
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Typically for the leg (thigh) 2 is 1 and 1 is none. Especially if there is a lot of muscle on the person.
At the last active shooter training class we had, the instructors advocated using at least two on the thigh, citing that it offended required at least that to stop the bleeding. They also told us not to bother with the RAT type because the band was too narrow, and would cause nerve damage to the pt. We are issued the CAT at both HFD and AMR Ambulance.
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Here is a pic of the latest Gen. 7 CAT for you all's reference. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170305/bee5b6afb7d59a5365c48b9393e593fc.jpg)
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At the last active shooter training class we had, the instructors advocated using at least two on the thigh, citing that it offended required at least that to stop the bleeding. They also told us not to bother with the RAT type because the band was too narrow, and would cause nerve damage to the pt. We are issued the CAT at both HFD and AMR Ambulance.
For RAT they
recommend a 1/2 inch space between each cord. But in a stressful condition, u might just wrap the cord upon itself and not remember thus causing nerve damage.
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