2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: zippz on March 04, 2017, 01:37:54 PM
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This happened near my house and they closed off moanalua rd in Aiea. I'll go down and take a look.
Suspect arrested after apparent shooting, road rage incident in Aiea
AIEA, OAHU (HawaiiNewsNow) -
A man is in critical condition after an apparent shooting at Aiea Shopping Center.
Police say at least one suspect fled the scene and was later arrested at a home in the Aiea area.
Preliminary reports say the shooting may have escalated from a road rage incident that happened just before noon Saturday.
The investigation has temporarily closed a portion of Moanalua Road near Aiea Heights Road.
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/34666436/2-suspects-arrested-after-apparent-shooting-road-rage-incident-in-aiea
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This happened near my house and they closed off moanalua rd in Aiea. I'll go down and take a look.
Suspect arrested after apparent shooting, road rage incident in Aiea
AIEA, OAHU (HawaiiNewsNow) -
A man is in critical condition after an apparent shooting at Aiea Shopping Center.
Police say at least one suspect fled the scene and was later arrested at a home in the Aiea area.
Preliminary reports say the shooting may have escalated from a road rage incident that happened just before noon Saturday.
The investigation has temporarily closed a portion of Moanalua Road near Aiea Heights Road.
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/34666436/2-suspects-arrested-after-apparent-shooting-road-rage-incident-in-aiea
DL?
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Not much going on but the street is still closed.
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One person died.
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I can see the call coming for more restrictions on guns.
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But gun is supposed to be unloaded in a secure case or commercial case. Oh wait criminals dont obey laws.
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But gun is supposed to be unloaded in a secure case or commercial case. Oh wait criminals dont obey laws.
Anyone giving odds the probability that the shooter is 1. the registered owner of the gun, 2. has no criminal history, 3. was carrying the firearm and ammunition in accordance with the law, and 4. that this will be judged to be a lawful self-defense shooting due to threat of serious bodily injury?
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Could be a registered owner as the shooter is 72 years old, not your typical suspect. Witnesses said he got out of the car and shot the other guy. Doesn't sound like self defense.
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Could be a registered owner as the shooter is 72 years old, not your typical suspect. Witnesses said he got out of the car and shot the other guy. Doesn't sound like self defense.
i smell a "not competent" defense coming soon
neighbors would not talk on camera because they say shooter has threatened people before
oh, and that emergency seizure bill just got closer to reality...
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Guy got punched in his face and retaliated by firing.
Lots of action on SSH if your following on fb
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Guy got punched in his face and retaliated by firing.
Lots of action on SSH if your following on fb
stolen stuff hawaii
not shooting sports hawaii
this is the shooter:
http://archives.starbulletin.com/1999/12/22/news/whatever.html
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Sorry, thanks Mac
Shooter is retired HFD
Shooter has a record for previous firearms violations.
Who won that bet
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this is the shooter:
http://archives.starbulletin.com/1999/12/22/news/whatever.html
Bought a small block chevy from him in the late eighties.
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Sorry but if i had my small kids in the car with me, my fault or not, I wouldn't have gotten out of my car, just waved and left.
That was stupid on the "victim's" part. He started/continued something, and the shooter sure as hell finished it.
It's not worth it. I really feel for the two daughters that were in the car.
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Bought a small block chevy from him in the late eighties.
was it stolen or anything?
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"...sentenced in 1993 to state and federal prison terms involving convictions for theft, firearms violations, tax evasion, mail fraud and racketeering to defraud insurance companies with false claims of stolen cars."
So just your typical upstanding former high ranking civil servant on the public retirement dole who had never done anything serious enough to become a "prohibited person"? I wonder how many times the neighbors called the cops about the threats he (allegedly) made and what they did about it, I mean, especially given his past criminal history? Am I being too cynical to suggest that we're in for some stonewalling and/or we'll be told about missing or "sealed" records?
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This is going to be an interesting case to keep track of. Was it self defense or not and how will it affect Hawaii's gun laws either way. I could see a self defense scenario. Maybe they got into an accident so stopped on the road and words are exchanged. Pahio (dead guy) false cracks Freeman (shooter). Freeman fearing for his life retrieves a gun and shoots. Traumatized by the incident, he runs away. Claims self defense.
The news article says the victim was a nice guy while shooter was a bad guy. According to the court records the victim had some run ins with drugs, family abuse, assault, and harassment too. Both of them sound like idiots.
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was it stolen or anything?
"...sentenced in 1993 to state and federal prison terms involving convictions for theft, firearms violations, tax evasion, mail fraud and racketeering to defraud insurance companies with false claims of stolen cars."
Maybe he bought cars, sold them as parts, then reported them stolen ??? He had a lot of stuff on his property for sale, no bargaining, take it or leave it. Went there only once.
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What a sad, stupid, unnecessary waste of life.
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OG.
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Worked at the shooter's house twice more than 20 years ago.
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This is going to be an interesting case to keep track of. Was it self defense or not and how will it affect Hawaii's gun laws either way. I could see a self defense scenario. Maybe they got into an accident so stopped on the road and words are exchanged. Pahio (dead guy) false cracks Freeman (shooter). Freeman fearing for his life retrieves a gun and shoots. Traumatized by the incident, he runs away. Claims self defense.
The news article says the victim was a nice guy while shooter was a bad guy. According to the court records the victim had some run ins with drugs, family abuse, assault, and harassment too. Both of them sound like idiots.
Of course every victim is a nice guy who would never harm anyone...
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Of course every victim is a nice guy who would never harm anyone...
See: Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, etc.
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Worked at the shooter's house twice more than 20 years ago.
Did he have the drawbridge?
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Yes. He showed me his hidden garage below the garage you could see from the street. That bridge opened and closed fast.
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IDK, to me for the murder charge this is not clear cut. What irritates me is posters at SA saying how come no more fair fights anymore. This 72 y.o. guy against this 31 y.o. guy who looks good sized. Not bringing into account that the old guy was probably a prick and menace. How about saying this 69 y.o. 95 lb. lady fighting this 230 lb. 28 y.o. If she used a pistol and shot the guy, why didn't she just duke it out with the assailant? Come on. In this modern world there is no such thing as a fair fight and everyone seeks an advantage over their attacked or opponent. If a guy with a knife attacks LE do we say that the offcer should've holstered his pistol and fought the guy with a knife too.
If I was at home and someone rushed me with no visible weapon in sight, given the chance and time I would use my pisto/shotgun to stop the threat. If not I would use whatever 2X4, knife, broom, rake or whatever. Other than saying we need more preventative gun confiscation from people possible of committing a crime, I say this incident should at the least bring up legalizing Tasers/batons even those pepper spray pistols that were discussed earlier as being a firearm. My opinions.
That being said, the fact that this old guy had a criminal history and possessing a concealed (in the vehicle) is another story and looks clear cut to me. Condolences to the children and family of the deceased.
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Sounds like manslaughter charges might be in order.
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No such thing as a fair fight outside of sporting events. Even nations don't fight "fair." ISIS does not have aircraft, does that stop the US from using airpower? I believe if you are going to fight, use anything at your disposal to win, or no fight at all. That is why I will only fight if my life or that whom I care about is threatened. If someone cuts me off in traffic I don't go leaning on my horn. It already happened and nothing I can do will undo it. Anything I do from that point to let the other driver know my displeasure will only make things worse. I want to go home and sleep in my own bed, not the bed in a hospital or jail.
Cool head main thing, as the old folks would say when I was growing up.
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No such thing as a fair fight outside of sporting events. Even nations don't fight "fair." ISIS does not have aircraft, does that stop the US from using airpower? I believe if you are going to fight, use anything at your disposal to win, or no fight at all. That is why I will only fight if my life or that whom I care about is threatened. If someone cuts me off in traffic I don't go leaning on my horn. It already happened and nothing I can do will undo it. Anything I do from that point to let the other driver know my displeasure will only make things worse. I want to go home and sleep in my own bed, not the bed in a hospital or jail.
Cool head main thing, as the old folks would say when I was growing up.
Well said.
With respect to the today's local laws that govern the appropriate use of force in the realm of self-defense, we are only given the realistic options of run away (if you can), allow yourself to be assaulted and hope the police arrive in time to save you, or use force and hope the judge and jury deem your use of force as not too excessive.
Kuleana
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This is going to be an interesting case to keep track of. Was it self defense or not and how will it affect Hawaii's gun laws either way. I could see a self defense scenario. Maybe they got into an accident so stopped on the road and words are exchanged. Pahio (dead guy) false cracks Freeman (shooter). Freeman fearing for his life retrieves a gun and shoots. Traumatized by the incident, he runs away. Claims self defense.
The news article says the victim was a nice guy while shooter was a bad guy. According to the court records the victim had some run ins with drugs, family abuse, assault, and harassment too. Both of them sound like idiots.
No legitimate self-defense claim if he was able to walk back to his car unmolested and then return to the incident site. He was clear of any threat of death or great bodily harm when he went back to the car. Murder in the second degree will be the charge but will probably get pled down to manslaughter.
If he spent time in Federal prison on federal charges, he's almost certainly a felon.
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No legitimate self-defense claim if he was able to walk back to his car unmolested and then return to the incident site. He was clear of any threat of death or great bodily harm when he went back to the car. Murder in the second degree will be the charge but will probably get pled down to manslaughter.
If he spent time in Federal prison on federal charges, he's almost certainly a felon.
i thought he shot him from the drivers seat after getting punched? if he went back to the car for the gun then hes screwed.
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i thought he shot him from the drivers seat after getting punched? if he went back to the car for the gun then hes screwed.
media is reporting all kinds of accounts.
morning radio is calling for more gun laws / bans... :grrr:
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Better ban cars. If my recent memory is correct, there have been several assaults by auto that resulted in death or serious injury in Hawaii.
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Better ban cars. If my recent memory is correct, there have been several assaults by auto that resulted in death or serious injury in Hawaii.
Nice try, but I think you'd better re-read the Constitution(s): "A well-regulated massive fleet of civilian-owned automobiles, being necessary for the economic security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and drive automobiles, shall not be infringed." And, trust me, the courts take that one seriously.
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Wow, everyone on "his" street says he was a menace and a threat. How can anyone argue self defense in this case...he was a prior felon carrying a weapon on his person.
A past tenant of his says he hates all Polynesians - I'm sure he'll have LOTS of fun locked up with the USO boys.
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Wow, everyone on "his" street says he was a menace and a threat. How can anyone argue self defense in this case...he was a prior felon carrying a weapon on his person.
A past tenant of his says he hates all Polynesians - I'm sure he'll have LOTS of fun locked up with the USO boys.
Have you seen the comments on the S/A articles? :o
Seems like information being reported is still sketchy at best. Yes, Freeman doesn't have a great history that would really help his case, though I am not sure how much is relevant legally. That said, that Pahio got out of the car and hit Freeman appears to confirmed by many witnesses and that in itself, even if provoked, to me was a big part of what the result was. Again, I am sure there were other things that happened that wasn't being reported, but those are my thoughts based on the information presented.
There are so many walking around with the "faka, what?!" and "I no sked" attitude and others who just may simply be looking for a confrontation. I think in this case is was an explosive mix of polar opposites colliding.
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Wow, everyone on "his" street says he was a menace and a threat.
First, I'm not "defending" this person, just speculating on your questions in general. Either the people on his street didn't call law enforcement, or the times they did call the cops concluded he had broken no laws. Or he was arrested and not charged, or he was arrested, charged and not convicted, or he was arrested, charged, convicted and then back on the street. There isn't a life sentence, yet, for being an asshole. Though based on the reported criminal history of this guy it's difficult to see why he wasn't removed from the public for a much longer term.
How can anyone argue self defense in this case...he was a prior felon carrying a weapon on his person.
Even the most ruthless hardcore lifetime criminal could find himself in a legitimate self-defense lethal force situation (I'm not insinuating that that is the case here, as I have no idea what specifically happened). He could have a legitimate self-defense claim and still be charged with all the other firearms violations. Note: In California you cannot carry without a permit, but an exception exists for "immediate imminent danger" (or some such phrase), meaning that you cannot carry unless and until you are in immediate danger of imminent serious bodily injury or death, THEN you can use magic to make your firearm appear at your previously-illegal-to-carry location. Gotta love the people who write these laws (especially when they then pass laws to exempt themselves from the laws, as the California legislators did).
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From the witness reports on the news, sounds like he has a weak self defense case going. If it is ruled self defense and he is acquitted of murder/manslaughter, I wonder if they will still press the firearms violations especially the place to keep. Also here we go:
...We took the documents to University of Hawaii law professor Ken Lawson, who is not connected to the case.
“He may come out with some magic out of his hat, but from what we know right now, no, it’s not self defense,” Lawson said. “The law would rather see you run than resort to deadly force, so if you can get away, the law says you’ve got to go before you can use deadly force.”
http://khon2.com/2017/03/07/witnesses-claim-victim-yelled-at-punched-suspect-prior-to-shooting/
They may have a point in this case, it would have been better to drive off if possible in this case.
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Wow, everyone on "his" street says he was a menace and a threat. How can anyone argue self defense in this case...he was a prior felon carrying a weapon on his person.
A past tenant of his says he hates all Polynesians - I'm sure he'll have LOTS of fun locked up with the USO boys.
that doesn't make sense at all - if he hated them why did he rent to them?
I don't agree with the suspect's action at all but it seems that everyone here has a torch ready to set him on fire.
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Wow, everyone on "his" street says he was a menace and a threat. How can anyone argue self defense in this case...he was a prior felon carrying a weapon on his person.
A past tenant of his says he hates all Polynesians - I'm sure he'll have LOTS of fun locked up with the USO boys.
Was told by a friend born, raised and still living in Aiea that he remembers Freeman being married to a Polynesian at one time. What gets me is how this old bad boy got hired by HFD and retired as a battalion chief.
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Wow, everyone on "his" street says he was a menace and a threat. How can anyone argue self defense in this case...he was a prior felon carrying a weapon on his person.
So a felon dosnet have the right to self defense ? Yes he was carrying an illegal firearm but that does not remove mans natural right to self defense. If he can prove it was self defense (say he was in his car and the guy approached him and punched him in the face like one of the witness story's says) Then he could legitimately argue he was in fear for his life/safety and used deadly force to stop the attacker. What if he had of used a knife or club ect....... it would of been a simple matter of self defense. If he can arguee/prove self defense then he will more then likely face a firearms charge which he will plea down to time served.
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So a felon dosnet have the right to self defense ? Yes he was carrying an illegal firearm but that does not remove mans natural right to self defense. If he can prove it was self defense (say he was in his car and the guy approached him and punched him in the face like one of the witness story's says) Then he could legitimately argue he was in fear for his life/safety and used deadly force to stop the attacker. What if he had of used a knife or club ect....... it would of been a simple matter of self defense. If he can arguee/prove self defense then he will more then likely face a firearms charge which he will plea down to time served.
Yep. His firearm didn't start the fight, but it sure ended it!
I think, however, if reports are true, he ran over the guy he shot while fleeing the scene. He'd probably be in a better position had he remained there and called 911.
A Cop also stated to the news he didn't notice any injuries when they arrested the man at his home, which might hurt his claim of self defense.
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Information is so vague at this point, plus sensationalizing.
He ran over the guy, but was it like his torso, or leg, or finger
The guy got punched. Everyone for some reason is assuming in the face.
Plus every news station is running a different version of events
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Information is so vague at this point, plus sensationalizing.
He ran over the guy, but was it like his torso, or leg, or finger
The guy got punched. Everyone for some reason is assuming in the face.
Plus every news station is running a different version of events
Good thing "Fake News" is just another Trump lie, huh? [/sarc]
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Clear as mud
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Saw this on the news and thought it could be a similar situation to this. It's in a Florida movie theater where a guy shoots another guy starting from a using a cell phone in the theater, argument, stuff being thrown, then the shooting. Then a murder charge and claims of self defense. Sounds like a collision of two idiots.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/10/us/stand-your-ground-movie-trial/index.html
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Saw this on the news and thought it could be a similar situation to this. It's in a Florida movie theater where a guy shoots another guy starting from a using a cell phone in the theater, argument, stuff being thrown, then the shooting. Then a murder charge and claims of self defense. Sounds like a collision of two idiots.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/10/us/stand-your-ground-movie-trial/index.html
Be sure to mention the person who shot the deceased is a retired Tampa police captain!
Otherwise, it dredges up the argument of how "civilians" are not able to be trusted to carry guns in public. "Only Cops are trained to carry firearms."
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Saw this on the news and thought it could be a similar situation to this. It's in a Florida movie theater where a guy shoots another guy starting from a using a cell phone in the theater, argument, stuff being thrown, then the shooting. Then a murder charge and claims of self defense. Sounds like a collision of two idiots.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/10/us/stand-your-ground-movie-trial/index.html
That's why I don't argue with strangers. You don't know if they're crazy or sane. I rather be wrong and alive than dead or in jail and right.
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That's why I don't argue with strangers. You don't know if they're crazy or sane. I rather be wrong and alive than dead or in jail and right.
That having been said This whole foolishness probably would not have happened in a CCW State. An Armed society is a polite society.
A Parallel is the Deedy- Eldberts issue.
Nobody has questioned how this unquestionably "prohibited person" came by his firearm, and why he was carrying it loaded within reach in his car. Clearly against the law.
I hear a search warrant was issued for his place. Wonder what else they found? I'll bet it was an arsenal. Where is the news on that??
Live nearby and have watched the drama on Heen way for years. The guy was our paper boy when I was a kid.
Are there not laws against all of this?? Felons in possession and all that? WTF? Who is minding the store? Bet that all his stuff was Black market.
If this is not a statement about the futility of gun control. Only us, the Law abiding folks pay attention.
I for one would like to hear the whole story.
Every time somebody does something like this they come after our guns. Yours and mine. Never the bad guys.
Aloha
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clearly we need more laws to cover the ones that he already broke :thumbsup: