2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: RSN172 on April 17, 2017, 09:19:27 PM
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Anybody used them before? Since the feedback I got on RDS for handguns wasn't too good, even though Jerry Miculek seems to like them, I was wondering about green laser sights. It should be great for dry fire practice too, to see how much movement you are getting when pressing the trigger. Reviews I have been reading on the internet is very positive and target acquisition is a lot quicker. This will be going on my G19 and I will have my Fusion Pac cc holster modified if I get one.
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Anybody used them before? Since the feedback I got on RDS for handguns wasn't too good, even though Jerry Miculek seems to like them, I was wondering about green laser sights. It should be great for dry fire practice too, to see how much movement you are getting when pressing the trigger. Reviews I have been reading on the internet is very positive and target acquisition is a lot quicker. This will be going on my G19 and I will have my Fusion Pac cc holster modified if I get one.
One on my Glock 26 (Crimson Trace) that activates when you grip it. It's a red laser, so best in not-so-bright light.
I have several Viridian Green Lasers with Tactical Light on 3 handguns for home defense.
Target acquisition is quicker, and at close quarters distances, it'll be close enough to zeroed to get the job done.
Confidence is a factor in whether you're ready to pull the trigger -- am I on target? Seeing the dot on the target reduces that lag of making sure you're sighted in.
Make sure you can see the dot. If you're trying to use the regular sights, you probably won't see the dot. You have to practice watching the bouncing dot only!
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Anybody used them before? Since the feedback I got on RDS for handguns wasn't too good, even though Jerry Miculek seems to like them, I was wondering about green laser sights. It should be great for dry fire practice too, to see how much movement you are getting when pressing the trigger. Reviews I have been reading on the internet is very positive and target acquisition is a lot quicker. This will be going on my G19 and I will have my Fusion Pac cc holster modified if I get one.
I have a LaserMax system installed. No holster modifications needed and the green pulsing dot really catches the eye.
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The psychological effect of a laser may be another selling point. A laser dot dancing on your chest has got to freak you out at least a little!
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Confidence is a factor in whether you're ready to pull the trigger -- am I on target? Seeing the dot on the target reduces that lag of making sure you're sighted in.
That was my concern. In a low light situation and trying to follow a moving target with iron sights is difficult. I was looking at the CT front mounted lasers rather than a grip mount because I don't want to add to grip thickness and I am also having RookWorks do a grip modification next week. Also getting it Cerakoted and can't wait to see what it will look and feel like.
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I have shot handguns with lasers and RDS, but don't own any.
Regarding lasers, from experience with friend's guns, be wary of cheapos. They don't seem to hold zero, if you can get them zero'ed at all. It also helps to have an indoor range and targets that you can set up closer, like say 5-7 yards to get a "decent" zero. Trying to zero the laser at the 25 yard targets at Koko Head and in the bright sun can be a royal PITA.
One thing I often wondered about with lasers is what distances they are effective at, or where they add "value" to having them. I would think in the 5 yards to maybe up to even 10 yards range. Beyond that, I've noticed that the laser dances around a lot. Closer, I don't envision many (or anyone) really using their sights.
Another aspect was turning the laser on under stress. I've played with the Crimson Trace type ones that have the pressure pad on the grip, but I wondered how it really works when under stress. I've shot with my handgun with light and even that takes some practice to get used to.
Maybe one of these days I'll get one to try. But for now, I haven't felt the need to spend the money and try.
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A lot of those cheap pistol lasers you get off Amazon don't even hold up for airsoft use. They don't hold zero, the red lasers are very weak, and the batteries die pretty quick. I've also seen the same cheap pistol lasers sold for over $100...I think the sells are trying to fool people into thinking the high price means high quality...
Even my laserlyte laser training cartridge couldn't hold zero just from dry firing it, and it wasn't cheap. The only one I would trust would be the Surefire X400 light/laser combo. No experience with Crimson Trace, but I don't really see many people with them.
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I was only considering Crimson Trace, but will take a look at Surefire. I have 3 of their flashlights. I am also only looking at green lasers.
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To me, it sounds like a personal preference. I personally wouldnt spend money on them. Because I would then have to buy all new holsters.
Also laser vs. light...I would spend money on a light and all new holsters.
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I would only have one holster to replace, and it should be fairly cheap since if I send the Fusion Pac to the maker, they only have to replace the outer kydex piece. I may get a laser light combo. The Surefire is about twice as much as the Crimson Trace when you consider than you also have to buy the activation switch separately. Still need to look at more reviews and videos before I decide.
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I was only considering Crimson Trace, but will take a look at Surefire. I have 3 of their flashlights. I am also only looking at green lasers.
Viridian Green lasers are great. Holding zero isn't a problem, but over time, the buttons might fail or dot become a "starburst" with many points of light.
The company has a lifetime warranty. I just send it in, and they replace it for free. No hassles.
Catch them on sale if you can. Sometimes there are open box items available for $100 less. They are all covered under the warranty. Having one or two extra on hand is a good thing if you ever need warranty replacement.
A fresh pack of replacement batteries is also good. Don't wait until it's needed to use it. Practice with it and cycle through the settings to make sure the buttons aren't getting harder to press, etc.
I have one on my KSG shotgun, too. Laser and tac light in one small package.
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https://youtu.be/kRdZV1uQDgE
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I've not tried one yet, but Viridian also makes an "Instant On" holster that not only fits your gun with laser attached, but will activate the laser when the gun is drawn. It basically has something that pushes the "on/off" button as it slides out of the holster.
https://youtu.be/3G7XhAzvSBU
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Thanks Flapp. I'll check them out too.
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Red dot sights for handguns are becoming pretty common now and in a few short years as the technology improves for micro dots, they will be even more prevalent on handguns. I have one set up on my G19 right now and I am working on the learning curve. As for lasers, they serve a purpose, primarily under certain shooting conditions, but to think of them as a primary sighting system is incorrect IMO.
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Red dot sights for handguns are becoming pretty common now and in a few short years as the technology improves for micro dots, they will be even more prevalent on handguns. I have one set up on my G19 right now and I am working on the learning curve. As for lasers, they serve a purpose, primarily under certain shooting conditions, but to think of them as a primary sighting system is incorrect IMO.
The one benefit of laser over red dot, besides faster target acquisition (IMO) is when in close proximity, you don't want to extend your arms in front. At that point, the laser would display on the target while shooting from the side/hip, whereas the red dot would offer no assistance at all.
I think red dots are better at further than 10 feet in terms of accuracy.
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The one benefit of laser over red dot, besides faster target acquisition (IMO) is when in close proximity, you don't want to extend your arms in front. At that point, the laser would display on the target while shooting from the side/hip, whereas the red dot would offer no assistance at all.
I think red dots are better at further than 10 feet in terms of accuracy.
As I noted there are situations where a laser is of benefit, but IMO it is definitely not a primary sighting system, so no argument there. Also deployment of any sighting system has its pros and cons and often discussion is missing the key context of extensive training, experience and validation in realistic venue.
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My primary use of a laser would be for low light high stress situations and dry fire practice. I also agree on the importance of practice and training. I try to get two 50 round live fire sessions a week focusing mainly on drawing from concealment and firing from the hip between 3-7 yards. Also on shooting while moving from one point to another. What I would really like is having a moving target but have not been successful in finding volunteers.
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I've played around with a laser.
Works pretty good when you're calm and controlled.
I also thought it would be a good deterrent holding the little red dot on the bad guys chest.
Then I started to realize under stress and duress, the laser would look more like a seismograph in my hands. :shake:
I think focusing on the front sight right in front of me rather a little dot 20 or 30 feet away will help under stress.
If they are so close I don't want to extend my arms then I'm point shooting anyway.
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I always have a bit of a cringe moment when people speak about holding a person with a laser bouncing on them as a "deterrent".
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......
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A visible laser works both ways.
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I always have a bit of a cringe moment when people speak about holding a person with a laser bouncing on them as a "deterrent".
A visible laser works both ways.
To me that's kinda like sayin' when I hear people talk about holding a person with a gun pointing at them as a deterrent it makes me cringe and that pulling a visible gun works both ways.
( which it can)
IMO the laser, if you can hold it kinda steady, can let the other person think he's in your sights dead to rights and your odds of missing are pretty slim. ( based on the popular culture of the red laser dot coming from a gun)
Pretty sure the young adult with the screwdriver or hammer is gonna think at least twice.
( hopefully he will with the gun pointed at him but I'm thinking it wouldn't hurt )
Of course you can choose when the little red dot shows up, or doesn't.
And you better be prepared to make it go bang and all that goes with that.
like they wrote in another thread, in a good number of occurrences in which a gun is used for self defense a shot is never fired. (Deterrent)
Maybe my thinking was wrong but makes sense to me.
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In the Viridian video posted by Flap Jackson in reply#15 of this thread, if you stop the video just before the bullets hit the target, you can see the bullets hit the target about a foot from his laser dot! Seems like the manufacturer would have zeroed the laser better than that before making the video, or am I missing something?
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In the Viridian video posted by Flap Jackson in reply#15 of this thread, if you stop the video just before the bullets hit the target, you can see the bullets hit the target about a foot from his laser dot! Seems like the manufacturer would have zeroed the laser better than that before making the video, or am I missing something?
Maybe muzzle flip? Recoil?
Put laser dot on target (POA),
Pull trigger,
muzzle flips up,
laser follows muzzle,
impact of bullet (POI) is where laser sight used to be,
but not where laser is.
Just a guess.
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In the Viridian video posted by Flap Jackson in reply#15 of this thread, if you stop the video just before the bullets hit the target, you can see the bullets hit the target about a foot from his laser dot! Seems like the manufacturer would have zeroed the laser better than that before making the video, or am I missing something?
the laser is mounted low and also offset from the bore. if you zero it at 15 feet and shoot a target at even 15 yards the poi will be pretty off. you really need to find a sweet spot for your usage and zero it to that. the intersecting lines cross paths once then deviate further from each other. i tried my x5l at the pistol target range on a really overcast day (25 and 50 yds)and i couldnt get it on paper using the dot. it was zeroed for about 20 feet since my property is only 6000sq ft.
ive found that zeroing at longer distances is better to keep the poa close to the poi over a wider range, but like zeroing a red dot at 50/100 yards you need to account for a few inches of height over/under bore when youre closer than 15 yards.
the older viridian lasers were centered, but mounted even lower than they are now. not sure if that was better or worse. seems like all models of surefire and streamlight lasers are centered, but the height under bore is significant with all 3 brands so im sure you will have similar issues but not as bad as viridian.
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I bought a Crimson Trace green laser. It can easily be seen in bright sunlight at 35 ft on a variety of different backgrounds, a silver car, white plastic bucket, an orange etc. I changed the zero from the factory 50 ft to 30 ft as my primary purpose for the laser is close range point shooting. At night, the laser dot can clearly be seen at 200 or more ft. So far I like it and close range target acquisition is much quicker.
This is my G19 with the CT laser, grip reduction, mag well cut out and carbide sand grip coating by RookWorx.
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Laser dot on white bucket at 35 ft in bright sunlight.
It is easier to see in person than what the camera lens shows.