2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: drck1000 on May 15, 2017, 08:05:38 AM
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What are some things that you do in terms of firearm training to build skills as well as break bad habits.
After not shooting much the past 8 months or so, I was able to get a full day of shooting in this past weekend. Great stuff and had fun. I was able to learn some new stuff as well as see old bad habits as well as bad tendencies (that I know better).
A couple of things that I found that helped shooting performance for me was two slight tweaks in stance and head position. I previously shot isosceles with my right foot slightly back, but based on encouragement from knowledgeable folks, I tweaked that a bit more by setting my right foot slightly further back as well as incorporating a little more weight distribution to the front leg (very slight). This tweak helped shift my natural point of aim ever so slightly. I found that that slight adjustment helped, so it's something that I want to train to ingrain. Over the course of the day, I found myself having to remind myself to get into that position and later in the day, it felt more natural. I'll probably still have to think my way through it again in future shooting sessions, but something that I think I can train to easily.
The head position one is probably going to be a tougher one to break. I have shot for so many years with my head forward, neck sort of craned over, and eye's "up". I had been trying to transition to a more neutral head and eye position overall prior to this past weekend. However, as I was concentrating on other things, I found myself getting back into the "old" shooting position. I did some dry fire and tried to do the draw and get sight alignment slowly to try to start breaking that habit of craning my neck over, but I think this is one that will take me a lot of time to transition away from as well as seeing it creep back in often.
One good thing about having a break from shooting is that it allowed me to sort of reset. Just like with other sports, bad habits tend to creep in from time to time. That said, shooting is very much a perishable skill and I definitely felt it while shooting this past weekend. Stuff that I thought I was solid on and things that I would normally find easy (or at least less challenging) weren't quite so. I was a little disappointed in that, but I also took it as a reminder that I need to shoot and train regularly.
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At this point in life I'm just trying to keep what little skill I got left.
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Since I got my CT Laserguard green laser, I have been able to practice drawing and firing from the hip with no noise or needing to burn expensive ammo. The laser activation button is just below the trigger guard and I tap that to see where I would have hit had I fired an actual round. With no noise or burning of expensive ammo, I have been able to practice every night inside my home or garage. Previously I had a tendency to shoot high, but now my muscle memory and positioning enables me to get on target at chest height most of the time. I have only had the laser for about a week so I am sure it will get better as I practice more. That in itself makes the $229 purchase price well worth it to me.
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Not as often as needed, but I do loading drills at home for the 12 ga. pump with snap caps and spent shells. Load from the side to get one chambered and loading gate on the bottom for the mag tube and exercise that pump.
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At this point in life I'm just trying to keep what little skill I got left.
I was never great with pistols so my pistol skills have always sucked. In the last 6 years I have been practicing so often with rifles that, what little pistol skills I had have gone downhill. I shot pistol 2 weeks ago and I suck.
So I would like to practice with my revolvers more often to bring what little skill set I have back to where I feel comfortable.
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At this point in life I'm just trying to keep what little skill I got left.
Don't sell yourself short. ;D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeJVTimlyWk
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Since I got my CT Laserguard green laser, I have been able to practice drawing and firing from the hip with no noise or needing to burn expensive ammo. The laser activation button is just below the trigger guard and I tap that to see where I would have hit had I fired an actual round. With no noise or burning of expensive ammo, I have been able to practice every night inside my home or garage. Previously I had a tendency to shoot high, but now my muscle memory and positioning enables me to get on target at chest height most of the time. I have only had the laser for about a week so I am sure it will get better as I practice more. That in itself makes the $229 purchase price well worth it to me.
Would be interesting to see how that form/method of training translates to results. At least for me, I used to dry fire often and will make it a point to do more. While dry fire definitely helps, I always want to see how it translates in live shooting.
One thing I noticed is that it looked like the laser activation button is on the front of the grip where your middle finger of your firing hand would go. When I first got a light for my 17, I got a similar switch/activator. I didn't like it as I had a hard time controlling when I wanted to press the switch since it was on my firing hand. Maybe something I could have worked out, but never really gave it a chance.
Not as often as needed, but I do loading drills at home for the 12 ga. pump with snap caps and spent shells. Load from the side to get one chambered and loading gate on the bottom for the mag tube and exercise that pump.
Loading for a shotgun is something that I would need a lot of time with to get proficient. I have done a couple of courses with shotgun and the loading is definitely not something that comes easy for me. I guess it might help if I owned a shotgun. . . :(
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I was never great with pistols so my pistol skills have always sucked. In the last 6 years I have been practicing so often with rifles that, what little pistol skills I had have gone downhill. I shot pistol 2 weeks ago and I suck.
So I would like to practice with my revolvers more often to bring what little skill set I have back to where I feel comfortable.
What do you envision yourself doing to get more proficient? Mostly live fire? Or some dry fire stuff?
How would you define comfortable? As in results on the range? Like being able to keep all hits within an X" diameter circle at 25 yards. Or something else. Just curious.
I don't shoot my 686 very often. I have almost a full case of .38 SPL, so really no reason I don't shoot it more. Mostly because I don't care for cleaning it. It's not that it's hard, just takes a bit more time and being stainless, I notice more of the dirty/grime where on a black gun, it would go unnoticed. Still no excuse though. . . haha. That and I really do enjoy shooting that gun.
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The laser is an idea, but remember trigger pull also affects where the round lands. So the laser just will show your POA when you press it on.
Also don't want to get into the habit of pressing the laser, because if you do need to use your handgun, you might press that due to habit.
I would buy a SIRT instead.
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What do you envision yourself doing to get more proficient? Mostly live fire? Or some dry fire stuff?
How would you define comfortable? As in results on the range? Like being able to keep all hits within an X" diameter circle at 25 yards. Or something else. Just curious.
I don't shoot my 686 very often. I have almost a full case of .38 SPL, so really no reason I don't shoot it more. Mostly because I don't care for cleaning it. It's not that it's hard, just takes a bit more time and being stainless, I notice more of the dirty/grime where on a black gun, it would go unnoticed. Still no excuse though. . . haha. That and I really do enjoy shooting that gun.
Mostly live fire. I have done some dry fire practice. My main problem is arm strength. I have a repetitive strain injury (nerve damage) in my right arm and I'm right handed. I have lost about 40% of my strength in it. I compensate as much as possible with my left arm but it is still not the same as it used to be. Plus my eyesight is pretty bad at this point. Red dots help that a lot. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
I do prefer range results. Keeping within a 6" ring at 25 yards is always my goal. But that is single action. I also practice double action and reloads. I like to keep my shots in an 8" target shooting double action. If I could do that in a 6" target I will be happy.
I keep a revolver as my SD gun. I plan to change out my current revolver for a different one eventually. In order to do that I have to get in more practice with the one I want to use as the replacement. Plus I have to find some better grips.
I don't particularly care for cleaning revolvers either as they take much longer and much more effort than a typical semi auto. However, I have developed a cleaning routine with certain tools and products that work really well for me. So while it still takes a little longer the effort is much less so cleaning my revolvers is no longer an issue for me. I prefer revolvers so an easy to stick to cleaning regiment is good for me.
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The laser is an idea, but remember trigger pull also affects where the round lands. So the laser just will show your POA when you press it on.
Also don't want to get into the habit of pressing the laser, because if you do need to use your handgun, you might press that due to habit.
I would buy a SIRT instead.
I hit the laser and squeeze the trigger.
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I have a SIRT and that is one tool that I plan on using more. The 17 is my main training gun and one that I shoot most often, so it's great that the SIRT fits all the holsters and such that I have for it. It also fits the same aftermarket sights if you want to be really thorough. I haven't done that, but I know people who have.
The SIRT seems pretty basic, but there are lots of ways that it can help a number of things in my shooting practice as well as a useful teaching tool for stuff like diagnostics and demonstration of things "dry".
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I hit the laser and squeeze the trigger.
Video ;D
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Mostly live fire. I have done some dry fire practice. My main problem is arm strength. I have a repetitive strain injury (nerve damage) in my right arm and I'm right handed. I have lost about 40% of my strength in it. I compensate as much as possible with my left arm but it is still not the same as it used to be. Plus my eyesight is pretty bad at this point. Red dots help that a lot. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
.....
I could swear I heard tiny violins playing sad music.
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Btw I too have a repetitive stress injury in my right arm. It's called tennis elbow....from playing a lot of tennis when I was younger.
Sooo.... what is your repetitive injury from? Oh wait, never mind, I don't want to know :rofl:
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Video ;D
Tried to but response I got was cannot upload that type of file.
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Tried to but response I got was cannot upload that type of file.
Don't upload here. Make a free YouTube account, upload there, and post the link here.
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I have a YouTube account but don't want to post the video there. It was only 4 seconds long. Rather boring as well.
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I have a YouTube account but don't want to post the video there. It was only 4 seconds long. Rather boring as well.
Story of my life...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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What are some things that you do in terms of firearm training to build skills as well as break bad habits.
First and foremost is that I try to burn correct and proper reps. I do it at a deliberate pace and increase the pace with a set number of correct reps. Getting the neuropathways and motor learning to fire and trained correct is the key and this is done via repetition, so obviously the repetition must be quality. Much of this training for myself is accomplished via dry training, be it dry fire or just dry manipulations. Live fire is obviously great for training and validation, but it also has drawbacks associated with the gun actually going bang. Often times we can learn more without the ignition of the weapon and many top shooters will have much more dry training in their routine than they do actual live fire.
I know this group that does an amazing dry fire workshop. I'll let you know if they put something together in the future.
After not shooting much the past 8 months or so, I was able to get a full day of shooting in this past weekend. Great stuff and had fun. I was able to learn some new stuff as well as see old bad habits as well as bad tendencies (that I know better).
Great to be back on the range isn't it!
A couple of things that I found that helped shooting performance for me was two slight tweaks in stance and head position. I previously shot isosceles with my right foot slightly back, but based on encouragement from knowledgeable folks, I tweaked that a bit more by setting my right foot slightly further back as well as incorporating a little more weight distribution to the front leg (very slight). This tweak helped shift my natural point of aim ever so slightly. I found that that slight adjustment helped, so it's something that I want to train to ingrain. Over the course of the day, I found myself having to remind myself to get into that position and later in the day, it felt more natural. I'll probably still have to think my way through it again in future shooting sessions, but something that I think I can train to easily.
Sounds like your referencing what I call the "Power Iso". Definitely not built in a day, but dry reps is a good tool here for developing it.
The head position one is probably going to be a tougher one to break. I have shot for so many years with my head forward, neck sort of craned over, and eye's "up". I had been trying to transition to a more neutral head and eye position overall prior to this past weekend. However, as I was concentrating on other things, I found myself getting back into the "old" shooting position. I did some dry fire and tried to do the draw and get sight alignment slowly to try to start breaking that habit of craning my neck over, but I think this is one that will take me a lot of time to transition away from as well as seeing it creep back in often.
Head position is huge. "turtling up" creates far too much negative muscle tension in the neck, traps, shoulders, delts and back, which directly or negatively affects your grip and trigger finger. In addition, as binocular creatures we are meant to look out of the center of the fovea on a flat plane, which optimizes our vision. This "bad muscle tension" also wreaks havoc with the eye muscles and vision over a long day.
One good thing about having a break from shooting is that it allowed me to sort of reset. Just like with other sports, bad habits tend to creep in from time to time. That said, shooting is very much a perishable skill and I definitely felt it while shooting this past weekend. Stuff that I thought I was solid on and things that I would normally find easy (or at least less challenging) weren't quite so. I was a little disappointed in that, but I also took it as a reminder that I need to shoot and train regularly.
Hopefully you will have more opportunities to "shoot and train regularly".
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I have a YouTube account but don't want to post the video there. It was only 4 seconds long. Rather boring as well.
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Now I'm curious how boring 4 seconds can be.
What's it about? Enquiring minds want to know.
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Changemyoil wanted a video of me squeezing the laser and trigger together. So I held the iPad in one hand while filming my other hand squeezing the laser and trigger. If you really want to see it I can email it to you.
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Changemyoil wanted a video of me squeezing the laser and trigger together. So I held the iPad in one hand while filming my other hand squeezing the laser and trigger. If you really want to see it I can email it to you.
That sounds very complicated. Should do it while standing on 1 foot also.
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It is more complicated than it sounds. Try it and you will see. Trying to hold the iPad with one hand and hitting the start button while keeping it focused and not dropping the iPad is not real easy. Not very difficult, but not real easy either.
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Anyways. . . :stopjack:
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I know this group that does an amazing dry fire workshop. I'll let you know if they put something together in the future.
Browser doesn't support color, so I'll try this.
Yes. A dry fire workshop sounds interesting. :thumbsup:
Great to be back on the range isn't it!
Always!
Sounds like your referencing what I call the "Power Iso". Definitely not built in a day, but dry reps is a good tool here for developing it.
Liked the results I was getting on the range with that "Power Iso". Something I want to continue to be work on to transition. Seeing more and more of that lately, both in competition and reports/videos of training courses. Actually noticed it more previously, but just never got around to working on it myself.
Head position is huge. "turtling up" creates far too much negative muscle tension in the neck, traps, shoulders, delts and back, which directly or negatively affects your grip and trigger finger. In addition, as binocular creatures we are meant to look out of the center of the fovea on a flat plane, which optimizes our vision. This "bad muscle tension" also wreaks havoc with the eye muscles and vision over a long day.
That was something Koko Head RSO Slick and I were talking about a while ago. Noticed the tension, particularly in my shoulders/traps and forearms was causing, well, problems. And it was showing up on the target, badly! So tough to transition away from that. While I hate to use the term, but a definite "training scar". In that case, probably a good amount of bad repetition in dry fire made that worse.
The nature and science of human eye sight was another very interesting aspect. I actually was able to talk to Jason at RB1 at length about that. That discussion was more about day vs low/no light and how different parts of the eye pick up different things in those conditions. But that topic and relation to shooting performance always seemed interesting to me.
Hopefully you will have more opportunities to "shoot and train regularly".
For sure! :thumbsup:
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Liked the results I was getting on the range with that "Power Iso". Something I want to continue to be work on to transition. Seeing more and more of that lately, both in competition and reports/videos of training courses. Actually noticed it more previously, but just never got around to working on it myself.
Yes, more and more people are starting to understand it and the positive attributes behind the variation of the stance. We have been using it for quite some time, however those just figuring out the benefits often are more rigid about the 2 feet pointed at the target concept. We tend to be a bit more progressive and vary it a bit in the rotation of the rear foot to help with a more natural alignment, which as you saw varies from shooter to shooter and will vary even more from pistol to rifle. Some who are just figuring out the benefits of the Power Iso are often times stuck on being more rigid with the 2 feet pointed at the target thing. They haven't had enough exposure to it and the why behind it and have not done any discovery learning work up on it.
That was something Koko Head RSO Slick and I were talking about a while ago. Noticed the tension, particularly in my shoulders/traps and forearms was causing, well, problems. And it was showing up on the target, badly! So tough to transition away from that. While I hate to use the term, but a definite "training scar". In that case, probably a good amount of bad repetition in dry fire made that worse.
As we talked about there is good muscle tension and bad muscle tension. Most shooters are not able to clearly understand the difference and the effects that it may or may not induce into results on target. Unfortunately there has been a proliferation of training cadres or video that has circled the www on youtube, etc that has made the "tactical turtle" appear to be a good thing and so many people have mimicked what they see. When in reality it is a bad thing and breaking out of it takes a lot of effort and reprogramming. Re-training neuropathways and developing a new sense of proprioception in a well developed shooter is not an easy thing.
The nature and science of human eye sight was another very interesting aspect. I actually was able to talk to Jason at RB1 at length about that. That discussion was more about day vs low/no light and how different parts of the eye pick up different things in those conditions. But that topic and relation to shooting performance always seemed interesting to me.
This is always a topic near and dear to me due to the way that my own vision functions and I have spent A LOT of time here. My son is also color blind and sees the world a bit differently also. In addition I do a lot of heavy low light instruction so that is also a draw. Yes, keeping the head erect and seeing with a flat plane is important to our vision. Our color and daytime vision is optimized and comes from the center and cones of the eye as opposed to our "night vision" and shades of gray coming from the outer edges or rods. Eye fatigue is also a big issue for shooters and optical clarity of eye wear is generally optimized for flat vision. If I get overly fatigued in the eyes my dominant eye can shift.[/quote]
For sure! :thumbsup:
Info coming soon, keep an eye out.
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Yes, more and more people are starting to understand it and the positive attributes behind the variation of the stance. We have been using it for quite some time, however those just figuring out the benefits often are more rigid about the 2 feet pointed at the target concept. We tend to be a bit more progressive and vary it a bit in the rotation of the rear foot to help with a more natural alignment, which as you saw varies from shooter to shooter and will vary even more from pistol to rifle. Some who are just figuring out the benefits of the Power Iso are often times stuck on being more rigid with the 2 feet pointed at the target thing. They haven't had enough exposure to it and the why behind it and have not done any discovery learning work up on it.
As we talked about there is good muscle tension and bad muscle tension. Most shooters are not able to clearly understand the difference and the effects that it may or may not induce into results on target. Unfortunately there has been a proliferation of training cadres or video that has circled the www on youtube, etc that has made the "tactical turtle" appear to be a good thing and so many people have mimicked what they see. When in reality it is a bad thing and breaking out of it takes a lot of effort and reprogramming. Re-training neuropathways and developing a new sense of proprioception in a well developed shooter is not an easy thing.
This is always a topic near and dear to me due to the way that my own vision functions and I have spent A LOT of time here. My son is also color blind and sees the world a bit differently also. In addition I do a lot of heavy low light instruction so that is also a draw. Yes, keeping the head erect and seeing with a flat plane is important to our vision. Our color and daytime vision is optimized and comes from the center and cones of the eye as opposed to our "night vision" and shades of gray coming from the outer edges or rods. Eye fatigue is also a big issue for shooters and optical clarity of eye wear is generally optimized for flat vision. If I get overly fatigued in the eyes my dominant eye can shift.
Info coming soon, keep an eye out.
Have been finding more videos and info on the "Power Iso". I have been trying it for a few range sessions, but haven't been able to try it in a handgun match. There's an awesome handgun class coming up in a couple of weeks, but I had prior commitments, so I will miss it. :(
Bad muscle tension and good muscle tension is another that I've been finding more people either going to or discussing more on YouTube. Rob Leatham and others. Just wish I had more access to "free and open" ranges to test these things more frequently to get the feel and see for myself. Video would help as well.
Going away from the bad muscle tension and the "tactical turtle" has been a tough one to break. I've noticed that drawing and presenting while looking at a mirror has helped me see more of what I'm going as opposed to depending completely on feel.
A work in progress. :thumbsup:
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I have a SIRT and that is one tool that I plan on using more. The 17 is my main training gun and one that I shoot most often, so it's great that the SIRT fits all the holsters and such that I have for it. It also fits the same aftermarket sights if you want to be really thorough. I haven't done that, but I know people who have.
The SIRT seems pretty basic, but there are lots of ways that it can help a number of things in my shooting practice as well as a useful teaching tool for stuff like diagnostics and demonstration of things "dry".
We ordered a SIRT @ the Gun show and picked up some time after.
AMAZING results ! :D
It's just left lying on the couch, kitchen counter, coffee table or wherever.
When you see it, pick it up aim and fire !
Usual targets are door hinges (SS so the reflect nicely), a small prescription bottle on a table at the end of the house about 5' high, little chicken on a wall calendar etc..
Improved motor mechanix are very noticeable.
For live fire...
"September 30th 2012 '1911 Single Stack Classic' competition run."
No, we don't have a 1911 Single Stack :(, but we practice the same run anway.
Simple test: first stage was incredibly basic. Standing: 5 rounds. Kneeling: 5 rounds. 8" target, 15 yards.
Second stage: Kneeling: 5 rounds. Standing: 5 rounds. Reduced size B-27 silhouette target, 15 yards.
Stage 3 had practical skills put to test on one-handed shooting both sides left and right, and work proactive reloads in between. Right handers load up, fire 3 rounds right hand, transfer gun to left, fire 3 rounds left hand, proactive reload as left hander, fire 3 rounds left hand, transfer gun to right hand, fire 3 rounds right hand.
Left handers conduct this stage in opposite format.
This promotes the importance and ability to use one's handgun without hesitation under either-handed situations.
These 7 yard one-handed shots had to land in the blue 8x11 paper. Edge hits don't count.
There were no pick-up shots allowed for any stage except for two steel discs on stage 5.
For this first 1911 competition, all 5 stages had no time limit; just don't take all day on your shots.
Time constraints to add more wonderful, urgent stress were naturally occuring among the shootersand no electronic timers were needed. Over-confident shots - misses - also were natural deciders.
The much-touted hostage-taker shot. Two examples to be attempted, with one simple requirement.
Only one shot allowed on each - medium difficulty target on left, high difficulty on right. Distance 7 yards.
Can't load foto but its 80% bad guy head behind hostage and 25% bad guy head behind hostage with square on bad guy eye.
Red-lined area drawn in roughly represents the ideal area that should have been hit with one shot attempt.
Concealed/open carry proponents must be able to perform this on demand, with their chosen carry gun 2 seconds from any basic ready position.
This stage was prime time to step on the gas with some urgency... 3 threat targets are taken in any order but with the requirement that you need to get a hit on each one quick then send second shot upon return especially with wide distances between the three and considering they already could be firing upon you.
Three threats were 5, 6, and 7 yards from defendant's initial firing position. If real, they wouldn't stay still.
Firing sequence example: 1 on left - 1 on middle - 2 on right - return toward left -1 on middle - 1 on right
Standing in one spot conducting El Presidente 2 - 2 - 2 shot drills net unlikely survival in real situations, so competitors were recommended to move while firing at the trio of threat targets and disperse quick hits.
After sending 6 (and only six) rounds at the 3 threat targets, the competitor would proactively reload and fire another sequence preferably altered (right to left or middle then each side) with 1 - 1 - 2 - 1 - 1 order.
Then the competitor had to hit two 8" steel discs suspended on chains about 17 yards away. Redeeming missed shots were allowed, but inevitably meant additional time was spent making sure hits were made.
Hip/elbow shot
Hip/wrist shot
Next is ..
http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/HandgunStandards1.pdf
AWESOME ! :o
www.handgunlaw.us
The material on these pages is a collection of Standards submitted by Readers who want to share
their knowledge with others. Handgunlaw.us, Steve Aikens and Gary Slider assume no liability
for the use of the material contained within.
Clicking on Standard in listing will take you to that Standard.
# S1 Insights Training Center Standards
....................
Insight Training .................
4
# S2 DPA Classifier
..........................................
IDPA .............................
# S3 Bullseye National Match
Gunsite Standards
LFI Standards
Federal Air Marshall TPC
# S7 FBI Pistol Qualification Course
St of IL Police Officer Handgun Qualification
.......
State of Illinois...........
St of NE Semi Auto Qualification Course
..........
State of Nebraska...............
St of NE Revolver Qualification Course
..............
State of Nebraska...............
St of NJ Semi Annual Firearms Qualification .......
# S12
DOE Daylight Handgun Qualification Course
.......
Dept of Energy...................
17
# S13
DOE Reduced Light Handgun Qual. Course
........
Dept of Energy..................
www.handgunlaw.us
DOE Shooting on the Move Handgun Qual
..........
Dept of Energy..................
St of CT Security Officer Firearms Qualification
...
State of Connecticut............
St of AZ Daytime POST Firearms Qualification
St of AZ Nighttime POST Firearms Qualification
St of KS POST Handgun Qualification
Southeastern LA Univ. Police Qualification
.........
SLU ..............................
Misc Standard
.............................................
Robbie Robinson ...............
The Central Texas Standards
............................
C. McCormick/R. Coleman ..
PDT Advanced Pistol Qualification
SC BLE Handgun Qualification
........................
SC DPS..........................
NH DPS Handgun Qualification
USNA Pistol Qualificat
ion COF Prior to 2005
......
United States Navy ............
Wisconsin State Patrol
# S27
Handgun Master Cert. COF
.............................
Firearms Academy Seattle
:P
Now that's skill building and training :thumbsup:
:shaka:
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We ordered a SIRT @ the Gun show and picked up some time after.
AMAZING results ! :D
It's just left lying on the couch, kitchen counter, coffee table or wherever.
When you see it, pick it up aim and fire !
Usual targets are door hinges (SS so the reflect nicely), a small prescription bottle on a table at the end of the house about 5' high, little chicken on a wall calendar etc..
Improved motor mechanix are very noticeable.
For live fire...
"September 30th 2012 '1911 Single Stack Classic' competition run."
No, we don't have a 1911 Single Stack :(, but we practice the same run anway.
SNIP
So you replicated the "September 30th 2012 '1911 Single Stack Classic' competition run."? Or you evaluated the results of your training at that event?
If you want some qualification standards, I have a bunch somewhere. One I've been wanting to try are the series of qualifications that a buddy sent me. He's a former SWAT officer at a department near Houston (recently switched to being a detective). Anyways, the quals are for on-duty, off-duty carry, shotgun and SWAT/SRT. Just need an IPSC target and appears the round counts are 50, so not too bad.
While I enjoy the SIRT and believe it's a valuable tool, it doesn't help with mimicking recoil impulse. Things like forces/leverage to quickly bring the sights back on target or little things in your grip due to recoil impulse are things that I've been noticing are things that creep in here and there when I take breaks from shooting.
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So you replicated the "September 30th 2012 '1911 Single Stack Classic' competition run."? Or you evaluated the results of your training at that event?
we practice the same run
If you want some qualification standards, I have a bunch somewhere.
One I've been wanting to try are the series of qualifications that a buddy sent me. He's a former SWAT officer at a department near Houston (recently switched to being a detective). Anyways, the quals are for on-duty, off-duty carry, shotgun and SWAT/SRT. Just need an IPSC target and appears the round counts are 50, so not too bad.
Did you even go to the link provided and see all of the quals available ?
While I enjoy the SIRT and believe it's a valuable tool, it doesn't help with mimicking recoil impulse. Things like forces/leverage to quickly bring the sights back on target or little things in your grip due to recoil impulse are things that I've been noticing are things that creep in here and there when I take breaks from shooting.
So utilizing my Tacticle Conversions .22 conversion also has no benefit as it really "doesn't help with mimicking recoil impulse" ?
Memory and motor mechanics my friend, memory and motor mechanics. :thumbsup:
Works all the time ( except for masturbation which does not make you a better lover. :crazy: )
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So utilizing my Tacticle Conversions .22 conversion also has no benefit as it really "doesn't help with mimicking recoil impulse" ?
Memory and motor mechanics my friend, memory and motor mechanics. :thumbsup:
Works all the time ( except for masturbation which does not make you a better lover. :crazy: )
I didn't open any of the links. Maybe later. Too many to look at. Was just offering more of what you seemed to be interested in.
Yeah, I would say that shooting 22 versions of the center fire handguns certainly help and is MUCH cheaper than shooting the center fire ammo all the time. That said, I do believe that you can't replace the "real thing".
Memory and motor mechanics. I took a break from shooting for a while, but still would set fire here and there during that time. When I finally got back to shooting "live" again, I found that the target showed a lot of things. Things that couldn't really be replicated with a SIRT. Could shooting 22 have helped during that time? Yeah. But stuff like grip control, forward body pressure, etc dont really show themselves with SIRT or 22 trainers. I wasn't discounting your practice or training. Just sharing that at least for me, I have to watch that I'm not building bad habits in that method of training.
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A person has to be aware of the training options available and put together their own training program based on goals and limitations. Ideally, you'd just shoot centerfire ammo everyday on your own range and attend professional schools every week. A few professionals can do that but we can't because it's expensive, we have jobs, ranges are limited, and there are limited training schools in Hawaii. For pistol my training program is:
Dryfire my SIRT pistol on Lasrapp
Practice at the bullseye pistol or silhouette range for accuracy, shooting half 22lr and half centerfire.
Shoot at HDF, LIFE, or Puuloa open shoots once a month to practice from the holster and other techniques.
Attend HDF, LIFE, and other shooting clinics once in a while to learn my techniques while learning different techniques and teaching methods.
Shoot at the USPSA pistol event once per quarter to practice my technique and training under stress.
Shoot at a CGC bullseye pistol match twice a year to practice accurate fire under stress.
Teach classes, clinics, and coaching to reinforce my technique.
Attend Front Sight once a year, it's cheap and I get to go to Las Vegas.
Attend a professional shooting school once every other year.
My goal: To be a good shooter and instructor in defensive situations.
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Works all the time ( except for masturbation which does not make you a better lover. :crazy: )
...
Listen to the voice of experience.
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Have been finding more videos and info on the "Power Iso". I have been trying it for a few range sessions, but haven't been able to try it in a handgun match. There's an awesome handgun class coming up in a couple of weeks, but I had prior commitments, so I will miss it. :(
Bad muscle tension and good muscle tension is another that I've been finding more people either going to or discussing more on YouTube. Rob Leatham and others. Just wish I had more access to "free and open" ranges to test these things more frequently to get the feel and see for myself. Video would help as well.
Going away from the bad muscle tension and the "tactical turtle" has been a tough one to break. I've noticed that drawing and presenting while looking at a mirror has helped me see more of what I'm going as opposed to depending completely on feel.
A work in progress. :thumbsup:
Yes the "Power Iso" is gaining traction as it is being better understood and correctly taught in proper context of learning progression supported by good drills. Kind of the way you saw it done in a progression from poor technique all the way into a Power Iso. Part 2 definitely progresses from static situations and adresses your questions about using it in and out of dynamic movements such as competition or defensive applications. I am sure you will have an opportunity in the future.
The muscle tension thing and relying more on the stance in Power Iso and lower or overall body position to manage the recoil to free up the upper body tension pays off huge. Just shot a video of my 13 year old son, all 120 lbs of him and he shoots one heck of a cadence drill and the Power Iso is a huge part of it. I am pretty excited if / when this kid ever takes this sport to a competitive level.
Mirrors and especially video is huge. I know a group that does an Advanced Diagnostics series of workshops for advanced shooters. They also do work ups for competitive types and for SOF guys pre deployment or just those looking to really up their game. It often includes in depth video analysis and really diging deep into details. These are very small groups to maximize training and instruction analysis. They are extremely popular and have never made it to the point of even being "announced", but I know the right someone and I can keep you posted.
Working on the concept of getting more in depth and detailed video's, pictures and discussion in a private venue catering to alumni.
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Yes the "Power Iso" is gaining traction as it is being better understood and correctly taught in proper context of learning progression supported by good drills. Kind of the way you saw it done in a progression from poor technique all the way into a Power Iso. Part 2 definitely progresses from static situations and adresses your questions about using it in and out of dynamic movements such as competition or defensive applications. I am sure you will have an opportunity in the future.
The muscle tension thing and relying more on the stance in Power Iso and lower or overall body position to manage the recoil to free up the upper body tension pays off huge. Just shot a video of my 13 year old son, all 120 lbs of him and he shoots one heck of a cadence drill and the Power Iso is a huge part of it. I am pretty excited if / when this kid ever takes this sport to a competitive level.
Mirrors and especially video is huge. I know a group that does an Advanced Diagnostics series of workshops for advanced shooters. They also do work ups for competitive types and for SOF guys pre deployment or just those looking to really up their game. It often includes in depth video analysis and really diging deep into details. These are very small groups to maximize training and instruction analysis. They are extremely popular and have never made it to the point of even being "announced", but I know the right someone and I can keep you posted.
Working on the concept of getting more in depth and detailed video's, pictures and discussion in a private venue catering to alumni.
Had a good range session this past weekend and the "Power Iso" is becoming more natural. I still take some time to confirm the natural point of aim aspect from time to time and particularly just before the first shots on paper.
Muscle tension is definitely something I'm more mindful on now. More on that in a follow up post. That and head position.
I was talking with one of my best friends this past weekend about his son. He's a freshman and is already 5'10" ish and about 175 lbs. I don't see him stopping there either. My friend is in pretty good shape and still works out often. I told him that in a few years, I can see his son being able to take him on physically in things that the son can't right now. Like wrestling. Sky is the limit for him really and I see a lot of potential. Just hope they realize their gifts and the interest and drive follows.
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Swapped out front sight on one of my Glock 17s from a single tritium dot to a F/O. I'm really liking the F/O front sight on my 17s, which is a primary for defensive and training "intended" use.
After confirming the sights were on, I decided to work on some things. I have been doing more dry fire lately, but I also of course want to see how that translates to live fire. Another thing I wanted to work on is trigger reset and not the "bang, pause, click, bang, pause, click" cadence. I found that I have to be careful with the tension that can build up in my grip in dry firing. It isn't much, but something that I found negatively impacts results on paper. Will still dry fire, but something that I need to keep in mind when doing so.
I also made a point to work on some ball and dummy drills. Mixing in a dummy round with 4 live. When I last shot a USPSA match, I caught some flinches. And more than one. Well, the ball and dummy drill confirmed as well as allowed me to work some of that out. Still a work in progress though.
Another thing I found that I had started more of a soft focus on the front sight. That translated to shooting high. I saw the printing starting to string high, so I started holding at 6 o'clock. But when I was confirming the sights with a rest, the gun was about right on. So I started concentrating harder on getting a clear front sight and things were back on. So another thing to keep mindful about.
Overall, a good range session with my 17 as well as some work with my 34.
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My body is beginning to betray me. I find myself making "old man complaints" with increasing frequency. The onset of presbyopia, some astigmatism, finding myself increasingly prone to joint injuries, a general diminishing of my overall flexibility... I'm thinking that I need to learn some new techniques. Without admitting to any bad habits, I can see that the good habits which have carried me this far may not be enough to keep me at par as the years march on.
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My body is beginning to betray me. I find myself making "old man complaints" with increasing frequency. The onset of presbyopia, some astigmatism, finding myself increasingly prone to joint injuries, a general diminishing of my overall flexibility... I'm thinking that I need to learn some new techniques. Without admitting to any bad habits, I can see that the good habits which have carried me this far may not be enough to keep me at par as the years march on.
Have you tried a red dot with a long gun? I mean on like an AR or something and not necessarily on your M1 Carbine, SKS, etc. I have astigmatism, but mostly corrected with contact lenses. However, I believe red dots really help with regards to long guns. I'm sure they also can help with handguns, but I don't have much first hand experience with.
I have noticed that my eye sight in general is something that is diminishing. I think I will need reading glasses before much longer. I still can manage without for the most part, but I definitely notice it a lot more. That and ability for eyes to focus quickly. I used to do eye exercises where I focus on things at different distances to help in that regard. That seems to help me with focus on the front sight.
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Have you tried a red dot with a long gun? I mean on like an AR or something and not necessarily on your M1 Carbine, SKS, etc. I have astigmatism, but mostly corrected with contact lenses. However, I believe red dots really help with regards to long guns. I'm sure they also can help with handguns, but I don't have much first hand experience with.
I have noticed that my eye sight in general is something that is diminishing. I think I will need reading glasses before much longer. I still can manage without for the most part, but I definitely notice it a lot more. That and ability for eyes to focus quickly. I used to do eye exercises where I focus on things at different distances to help in that regard. That seems to help me with focus on the front sight.
I prefer to wear contacts which corrects my eyesight for near sightedness and astigmatism. What this means for me is I can see the rear sight or the front in focus but not both. And if I focus on the rear I also cannot see the target clearly.
Red Dot sights are awesome for pistols. I can keep both eyes open and if I can hold steady I can still shoot okay for an old guy. I put Red Dots on as many pistols as I feel I should. My problem is I prefer older pistols which have no way to mount red dots on them. And I don't want to ruin some pistols by putting a red dot on them. So I have been trying different combinations of paint on the front/rear sights to help me at least see them even if I can't focus on them. The newest tech of mounting a small heads up on a semi auto slide is really cool so I think it will be the next mod for my already highly modded Glock.
I have very little experience with Red Dot sights on a long gun. With my limited experience out to 50 yards I think Red Dots are great on long guns. But out to 100 yards the dot is too large for the targets I usually use. I was going to try using a Red Dot on a 10" or 12" solid black diameter or black outline target out to 100 yards but I took the sight off of it before I attempted to try this.
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1) I prefer to wear contacts which corrects my eyesight for near sightedness and astigmatism. What this means for me is I can see the rear sight or the front in focus but not both. And if I focus on the rear I also cannot see the target clearly.
2) Red Dot sights are awesome for pistols. I can keep both eyes open and if I can hold steady I can still shoot okay for an old guy. I put Red Dots on as many pistols as I feel I should. My problem is I prefer older pistols which have no way to mount red dots on them. And I don't want to ruin some pistols by putting a red dot on them. So I have been trying different combinations of paint on the front/rear sights to help me at least see them even if I can't focus on them. The newest tech of mounting a small heads up on a semi auto slide is really cool so I think it will be the next mod for my already highly modded Glock.
3) I have very little experience with Red Dot sights on a long gun. With my limited experience out to 50 yards I think Red Dots are great on long guns. But out to 100 yards the dot is too large for the targets I usually use. I was going to try using a Red Dot on a 10" or 12" solid black diameter or black outline target out to 100 yards but I took the sight off of it before I attempted to try this.
1) You tend to focus on the rear sight? Not sure what you intended with "I can see the rear sight or the front in focus but not both", but most average humans can't do that. ??? ;D
2) I've shot semi-autos with red dots, like RMR and Deltapoint, but just can't get myself to spend that kind of money to equip one of my handguns with one. They are pretty quick once you get used to them. Yeah, it would look funny to put a RDS on say an older SA revolver, but I'd have no issues really.
3) In my opinion, red dots on long guns, like ARs and AKs, are excellent for the 50-100 yard range. Even further out to 200+ish range to a certain extent. Not sure which red dot you were using, but I have 2 MOA Aimpoints and used to have a 1 MOA EoTech. Another trick you can try is using the top edge of the dot. That is assuming the dot doesn't look like a sunburst. If you ever want to shoot any of my ARs with red dots, I will be happy to bring them out to the range one day. 10" diameter targets at 100 yards should be super easy. I mean don't expect super tight groups, but consistent hits on that size target should be no problems.
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Ive shot my reddot equipped AR at 200 and 300 yards. Was able to hold a high power aiming black without much issue shooting prone with a sling. Have the dot zeroed at 50 yards, 200 was pretty much dead on, 300 slightly low. 600 had to switch to back up irons. (rear is a KAC). At 100 impact is slightly high.
so pretty much zero to 300 yards the red dot is usable.
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Ive shot my reddot equipped AR at 200 and 300 yards. Was able to hold a high power aiming black without much issue shooting prone with a sling. Have the dot zeroed at 50 yards, 200 was pretty much dead on, 300 slightly low. 600 had to switch to back up irons. (rear is a KAC). At 100 impact is slightly high.
so pretty much zero to 300 yards the red dot is usable.
Sounds pretty close to my experience. Dot and irons zeroed to 50/200. Hits on torso sized targets pretty easy out to around 300 ish. Just need to keep in mind variation from zero at the different distances (like you said), but for a target say 12" x 12" or so, not that big of a deal out to 300. That was a big part of the fun when there was steel at Koko Head!
There used to be that one big plate in a little valley at around 440-450. Hits with a 1x red dot was still easy once you figured out the holdover, but seeing the plate at that distance sometimes was a challenge since it was in a shaded part. I'm sure hits out further is definitely doable, but for me more limited by what I can see without magnification at that distance.
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1) You tend to focus on the rear sight? Not sure what you intended with "I can see the rear sight or the front in focus but not both", but most average humans can't do that. ??? ;D
What I meant was my eyes have gotten worse over the years and with contacts it gets even harder to do even see the sight that is out of focus. So if I focus on the rear I cannot see the front well enough to place it properly in line with the rear. And if I focus on the front, I can't see the notch in the rear well enough to place the sight properly.
2) I've shot semi-autos with red dots, like RMR and Deltapoint, but just can't get myself to spend that kind of money to equip one of my handguns with one. They are pretty quick once you get used to them. Yeah, it would look funny to put a RDS on say an older SA revolver, but I'd have no issues really.
I don't have any SA revolvers but I have some older doubles that just are not set up for mounting a red dot. And the no drill solutions are awkward looking and handling at best. As a matter of fact I inherited one double from my father and took the mount and red dot off the gun completely. It was ridiculous. I buy mid priced red dots in the $150-$200 range usually with 2 or 3 MOA dots. I found 4 MOA is too big for my taste. If I could find a reasonable priced red dot with 1 MOA I would try it on my AR. I also own a couple of cheap red dot sights ($20-$60) which are going to get replaced some day as they are not worth the money I spent. But as cheap and crappy as they are I can shoot pretty well with them.
3) In my opinion, red dots on long guns, like ARs and AKs, are excellent for the 50-100 yard range. Even further out to 200+ish range to a certain extent. Not sure which red dot you were using, but I have 2 MOA Aimpoints and used to have a 1 MOA EoTech. Another trick you can try is using the top edge of the dot. That is assuming the dot doesn't look like a sunburst. If you ever want to shoot any of my ARs with red dots, I will be happy to bring them out to the range one day. 10" diameter targets at 100 yards should be super easy. I mean don't expect super tight groups, but consistent hits on that size target should be no problems.
My red dot sight on my last AR project (sold it) is a 2 MOA. I still have the sight awaiting another gun to attach it to. I would like to try an AR out to 100 yards with a 1 and 2 MOA dot so I can see the difference. I don't expect tight groups with a red dot either but I do expect consistent results. If the dot covers the target circle completely then I have to try your trick putting the dot at the bottom of the circle. Thanks for the suggestions and the offer.
Some day I will take you up on your offer. Thanks!!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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can't focus on 2 planes at the same time
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1) What I meant was my eyes have gotten worse over the years and with contacts it gets even harder to do even see the sight that is out of focus. So if I focus on the rear I cannot see the front well enough to place it properly in line with the rear. And if I focus on the front, I can't see the notch in the rear well enough to place the sight properly.
I don't have any SA revolvers but I have some older doubles that just are not set up for mounting a red dot. And the no drill solutions are awkward looking and handling at best. As a matter of fact I inherited one double from my father and took the mount and red dot off the gun completely. It was ridiculous. I buy mid priced red dots in the $150-$200 range usually with 2 or 3 MOA dots. I found 4 MOA is too big for my taste. If I could find a reasonable priced red dot with 1 MOA I would try it on my AR. I also own a couple of cheap red dot sights ($20-$60) which are going to get replaced some day as they are not worth the money I spent. But as cheap and crappy as they are I can shoot pretty well with them.
2) My red dot sight on my last AR project (sold it) is a 2 MOA. I still have the sight awaiting another gun to attach it to. I would like to try an AR out to 100 yards with a 1 and 2 MOA dot so I can see the difference. I don't expect tight groups with a red dot either but I do expect consistent results. If the dot covers the target circle completely then I have to try your trick putting the dot at the bottom of the circle. Thanks for the suggestions and the offer.
Some day I will take you up on your offer. Thanks!!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
1) Ahh. Got it. You can't even see the rear sight when you focus on the front sight? Wow! That might be a challenge. I can see how a RDS on a handgun would really help in that case.
2) I've seen some RDS that are in the 7-10 MOA range, but never shot them much. Those size dots with some haze I could see covering a 10" diameter circle. The 1 MOA dot on the EoTech was pretty awesome and to me it was super clear and not much haze around the perimeter of the dot itself. Yeah, definitely should expect consistent results, particularly with good quality red dots. You don't necessarily put the dot on the bottom of the target circle. I typically put the top of the dot on the POA if I want to try for tighter accuracy. I typically only do that when trying to test the accuracy of the given rifle and optic combination, which isn't often. I typically like to verify the mechanical capability of the setup, before I put my "human factor" in there.
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Have you tried a red dot with a long gun?
I see two red dots these days, so I'm not a fan.
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I see two red dots these days, so I'm not a fan.
:(
You shoot quite well with irons, at least from what I recall.
Any idea on cause of the double vision?
As always, you can always try any of my guns that have red dots. They have irons too. ;D
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My body is beginning to betray me. I find myself making "old man complaints" with increasing frequency. The onset of presbyopia, some astigmatism, finding myself increasingly prone to joint injuries, a general diminishing of my overall flexibility... I'm thinking that I need to learn some new techniques. Without admitting to any bad habits, I can see that the good habits which have carried me this far may not be enough to keep me at par as the years march on.
Welcome to "The Club" >:( :grrr: :shake: :P :crazy: :sleeping:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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It's early on Friday morning and I was contemplating the title of this thread, "Building Skills and breaking bad habits"
So I read the last few posts by friends Tom and Rocky lamenting about the onset of aging.
Then I think about my last practice session a few days ago where it seems like I had a noticeably harder time focusing my eyes on ANYTHING....front sight, rear sight, target.
So here is a question for y'all-
At what point in your life do you resign yourself to the fact that your skill level ain't getting any better, and in fact, will only degrade as the clock keeps ticking?
When do you realize that the techniques you have been using all these years are now considered "bad habits"?
For myself nowadays, I just practice to try and keep what little skill is remaining, and not hurt myself in the process.
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It's early on Friday morning and I was contemplating the title of this thread, "Building Skills and breaking bad habits"
I actually got a different mental image from the topic title ...
(http://i.imgur.com/0pPqoqr.png)
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Hopefully not quite there yet, but can feel the eye sight issue creeping in more and more. Many years back, a shooting friend (also instructor) recommended some eye exercises to help with the focusing issue. As you age, your eyes gradually lose the ability to transition focal planes quickly. So you can do some exercises. One is to focus on something say 1 foot away, then transition to something say 10 feet away, repeat. Maybe 2 years ago, my eye doctor started talking about eventually having to need reading glasses. So far, I've done without just fine and I think the eye exercises have helped. I view it as a "keep what you've got" than improving anything.
There was a guy that I shot with in SRGC that couldn't focus on the front sight of his AR. I don't recall the reason. Anyways, he's a really avid shotgunner and he would say that he pretty much point shoots when shooting clays. He would do that while shooting paper as well and he actually shot pretty good. While I wouldn't recommend anyone doing that by choice, I would say that it seemed to work for him given his capabilities.
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One thing I will add about the age thing that some of you might experience like I do. Eye floaters:
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/eye-floaters/basics/definition/con-20033061
Mine occurred at KHSC while shooting my 8mm Yugo M48 Mauser with full power loads. One shot is all it took and now I have floaters in my right eye. At first it was really annoying. I don't notice them much any more except when I am trying to focus on the front sight sometimes I see one moving around in my eye.
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One thing I will add about the age thing that some of you might experience like I do. Eye floaters:
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I have floaters...more like Matson cargo ships in a sea of tapioca pudding :rofl:
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Lasik surgery might help many focusing problems.
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One thing I will add about the age thing that some of you might experience like I do. Eye floaters:
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/eye-floaters/basics/definition/con-20033061
Mine occurred at KHSC while shooting my 8mm Yugo M48 Mauser with full power loads. One shot is all it took and now I have floaters in my right eye. At first it was really annoying. I don't notice them much any more except when I am trying to focus on the front sight sometimes I see one moving around in my eye.
One of my best friends told me about floaters. He had me do this test and I guess I have some, but apparently he has lots. Thing is he's maybe 3 years younger than I am.
Lasik surgery might help many focusing problems.
Same buddy that I mentioned above had Lasik maybe 3-4 years ago. His vision overall has been pretty good since. He's almost 40, which I'm told is usually around the time focusing issues start being noticeable. I'll have to ask him if Lasik helped in his case.