2aHawaii

General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: Lead foot on May 24, 2017, 04:25:05 PM

Title: Acquired Handguns
Post by: Lead foot on May 24, 2017, 04:25:05 PM
Does anyone know the law for firearms acquired through storage unit auctions?  Are these firearms able to be registered and owned by the winning bidder, assuming everything clears with HPD?  Would the winning bidder eventually be the new owner of the firearms after the process is complete?  Looking for answers from people with legit information.  Tanks ah!  :shaka:
Title: Re: Acquired Handguns
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on May 24, 2017, 05:18:46 PM
Contact an FFL and ask what the process is.  There are a few in the Vendors section on this board.

You will have to coordinate the transfer between the FFL, HPD and the storage unit managers.  Legally the storage company had a lien on the property and took possession before selling to you.  They would have to transfer them to the FFL.

HPD will want to run a check to make sure none are of interest in crimes (i.e. reported stolen).  If HPD clears them, the FFL will be able to transfer them to you after your permits arrive.

This is not from experience.  I've been curious myself in the past, and this is the best advice I've been able to gather.  Hawaii Laws are strict.  Paying an FFL to do the transfer should keep you out of trouble.

I'd also advise you to get estimates for the value of the guns.  If they aren't worth the time and expense of transfer fees, permit applications and registrations, turning them into HPD for disposal might make more sense.
Title: Acquired Handguns
Post by: dustoff003 on May 24, 2017, 05:58:45 PM
Hopefully the original owner registered them.
My thoughts here not fact: If registered you would have to have the person that they are registered to or their heir incase of death transfer them to you probably through an FFL. If they are not registered they will be confiscated if they are registered and you can't get that person to transfer them to you they will be confiscated. HPD will not disclose to you who the registrant is if they are registered.


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Title: Re: Acquired Handguns
Post by: GTEC on May 24, 2017, 06:37:27 PM
Never done a storage unit one, but I would assume it would be similar to a death/incapacitated RO
Assuming handgun(s) is/are registered & RO is unwilling to assist...
-FFL would need firearm info and notarized document(s) showing storage unit co lien
-FFL would take above to get a permit to acquire from HPD
-FFL would go to storage and take possession of firearm(s) and documentation that person signing release is authorized to sign on behalf of company
-FFL would take firearm(s) to HPD to register
-New owner would apply as normal

Definitely not a simple $25 transfer for the FFL.
Would make me question why the firearm was in the storage unit in the first place before even beginning the process.
Title: Re: Acquired Handguns
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on May 24, 2017, 06:46:06 PM
Never done a storage unit one, but I would assume it would be similar to a death/incapacitated RO
Assuming handgun(s) is/are registered & RO is unwilling to assist...
-FFL would need firearm info and notarized document(s) showing storage unit co lien
-FFL would take above to get a permit to acquire from HPD
-FFL would go to storage and take possession of firearm(s) and documentation that person signing release is authorized to sign on behalf of company
-FFL would take firearm(s) to HPD to register
-New owner would apply as normal

Definitely not a simple $25 transfer for the FFL.
Would make me question why the firearm was in the storage unit in the first place before even beginning the process.

That's the parallel I had in mind -- estate transfer after owner passes away.

The steps are also what I had in mind, but wasn't sure how much the FFL would be doing versus the storage unit co.  The storage co is the legal owner, so it's up to them to secure the guns and ensure the FFL has what they need for the initial transfer.

As I said, it's best to pick an FFL and let them provide guidance.  They are the professionals.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Acquired Handguns
Post by: drck1000 on May 24, 2017, 06:50:38 PM
Not helpful, but similar topic. I used to watch Storage Wars and they'd occasionally find firearms. If I recall correctly, in the auctions in CA, the winning bidder couldn't take ownership of the firearms that were in the locker. Such a tease.


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Title: Re: Acquired Handguns
Post by: London808 on May 24, 2017, 10:09:18 PM
No one here does anything illegal,

Say nothing.
Title: Re: Acquired Handguns
Post by: Lead foot on May 26, 2017, 05:00:10 PM
I appreciate all the replies.  Mahalo  :shaka:
Title: Re: Acquired Handguns
Post by: Cannoli524 on May 30, 2017, 08:53:19 PM
Lead foot- by God's grace I'm sure your talking about my hand guns (3 glocks) that was found in my unit that was autioned off on the 23rd of May.. please I beg you, can I have them back I'll even pay you a fee for them..

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Title: Re: Acquired Handguns
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on May 30, 2017, 09:10:03 PM
Lead foot- by God's grace I'm sure your talking about my hand guns (3 glocks) that was found in my unit that was autioned off on the 23rd of May.. please I beg you, can I have them back I'll even pay you a fee for them..

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 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Acquired Handguns
Post by: suka on May 31, 2017, 01:52:51 AM
Im a FFL, and that is totally UNCOOL to file a stolen gun after your storage unit was auctioned off.
In any other State, beside this shithole HPD , your guns would have disappeared into the private world.
Title: Re: Acquired Handguns
Post by: suka on May 31, 2017, 01:58:48 AM
You should offer lead foot a good fair amount of money for them back , and not just a small fee.
Title: Re: Acquired Handguns
Post by: drck1000 on May 31, 2017, 10:01:44 AM
Sort of interested in the story behind the auction of the storage unit.  I assumed that that only happened as part of non-payment for the unit.  If it was part of an estate liquidation, I guess that might be different.  Just sort of curious as to what happens in this case.  I know people who do the storage locker buying thing, but mostly stories of finding a bunch of crap.  Now I'm interested in seeing how this goes.  Sort of like a season finale that left off with a cliffhanger. 
Title: Re: Acquired Handguns
Post by: oldfart on May 31, 2017, 10:37:15 AM
You should offer lead foot a good fair amount of money for them back , and not just a small fee.
...
Yeah that sounds fair
Title: Re: Acquired Handguns
Post by: jonjon on May 31, 2017, 10:40:39 AM
(https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder873/66619873.jpg)
Title: Re: Acquired Handguns
Post by: suka on May 31, 2017, 10:56:17 AM
Cannoli , lead foot acquired the firearm though a legal lien on your property. The police report that was filed is false as the firearms were never stolen or lost. If you really want the firearm back offer lead foot the fair retail cost for them. As for the police report it should be withdrawn as filing a false report is a felony in itself.

Title: Re: Acquired Handguns
Post by: zippz on May 31, 2017, 10:56:22 AM
I used to work for a storage company about 15 years ago and we'd have auctions.  Half of the guys just couldn't pay their rent and tried, sometimes they'll catch up on their rent but fall behind again.  The other half go missing.  Usually see the same buyers at the auctions who sell stuff at the swap meet.  The doors to the storage locker are opened and the buyers get to see inside.  They're not allowed to go inside of the locker or touch anything..  A lot of times it's old clothes, old furnature, and worthless stuff and the locker sells for less than $100, usually not worth the effort of throwing stuff away..  Most of the stuff is in boxes so you don't know what's inside.  Sometimes you'll see nice furniture, TV's, and other stuff when people move homes and those can go for a couple thousand dollars and up but that's uncommon.  Usually the computers and electronics are obsolete.   

We've heard rumors of people finding guns before, but we don't care as it's the buyers responsibility and we don't usually get to see what they find.  A guy in Florida called and was surprised to find his locker was auctioned a few months ago.  He was angry and made death threats to me because his guns were in the locker.  There's a stipulation in the storage contract that no firearms can be stored.
Title: Re: Acquired Handguns
Post by: zippz on May 31, 2017, 11:05:09 AM
The guy never claimed it was stolen or lost, just that he doesn't have them anymore.  It was wise to do a police report in the event the guns were later used in a crime.

I'm sure both of them can settle the issue.  It would also be a good gesture towards a 2a supporter.  It would be a hassle for the auction buyer to go through the process of registering and selling them.    I think 1/4 of the used price of the guns would be a good offer.  Or if money is short, legally transfer one of the guns to him and get two back.
Title: Re: Acquired Handguns
Post by: suka on May 31, 2017, 11:11:10 AM
The guy never claimed it was stolen or lost, just that he doesn't have them anymore.  It was wise to do a police report in the event the guns were later used in a crime.

I'm sure both of them can settle the issue.  It would also be a good gesture towards a 2a supporter.  It would be a hassle for the auction buyer to go through the process of registering and selling them.    I think 1/4 of the used price of the guns would be a good offer.  Or if money is short, legally transfer one of the guns to him and get two back.

TRUE
Title: Re: Acquired Handguns
Post by: London808 on May 31, 2017, 11:31:52 AM
I don't see anything about a police report be filled ?? Am I missing something ?
Title: Re: Acquired Handguns
Post by: Cannoli524 on May 31, 2017, 11:44:05 AM
Thank you all for the replies, I know I messed up with my storage unit but all I want is common ground with lead foot about this..

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Title: Re: Acquired Handguns
Post by: Cannoli524 on May 31, 2017, 11:45:14 AM
I did make a police report just to cover my butt just incase it ends up in the wrong hands. Call it wrong to do so but I was just looking out for my well being..

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Title: Re: Acquired Handguns
Post by: London808 on May 31, 2017, 11:50:02 AM
There is no common ground except an offer to buy them back at fair market value,

I can understand making a report of them no longer being in your possession. But if it was a lost or stolen/criminal report that would be messed up.
Title: Re: Acquired Handguns
Post by: Cannoli524 on May 31, 2017, 11:56:27 AM
Wasn't a criminal report just yo clarify, bro you don't know my situation so you shouldn't have any say.. I did message the right personal about this, Mahalo for the feedback though..

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Title: Re: Acquired Handguns
Post by: drck1000 on May 31, 2017, 12:00:35 PM
Not to be technical and pls don't take this negatively OP.  Just honestly curious. But in filing that report, aren't you basically admitting that you had the guns in the storage locker and thus violated the place to keep laws? 

Kind of like those guys who stopped off to get something to eat on the way home after the range and their cars got broken into and guns stolen.  They reported the incident and from what I heard, they were hit with violation of the place to keep.  Not sure if that case went anywhere, but I always wondered about that one. 
Title: Re: Acquired Handguns
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on May 31, 2017, 12:05:29 PM
How ever much was paid for the unit is a factor.  If he paid $100, then anything over that plus other costs would be a starting point. 

Personally, if I bought the locker, I'd get an estimate from a dealer for consignment less fees and taxes.  That net profit would be the minimum I'd accept to return them to the former owner.

Think of all the money saved by not paying the locker rental fee.  You have to spend that money now to get 3 items from the locker returned.  It's one way to rationalize paying market price for the guns.  You'd be out the same money as paying rent, and you still own the guns.  No difference -- other than you got your rental unit cleaned out for free!   :D

The alternative is walk away and shop for replacement guns elsewhere.
Title: Re: Acquired Handguns
Post by: zippz on May 31, 2017, 12:24:01 PM
Let's give this guy a break.  He made a mistake and admitted it.  He didn't do or say anything bad to anyone.
Title: Re: Acquired Handguns
Post by: aieahound on May 31, 2017, 12:53:38 PM
Yup.

Hope they work it out and everybody happy.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Acquired Handguns
Post by: London808 on May 31, 2017, 01:28:25 PM
Hawaiis place to keep laws are unconstional anyway.
Title: Re: Acquired Handguns
Post by: suka on May 31, 2017, 02:17:16 PM
I don't see anything about a police report be filled ?? Am I missing something ?

facebook Oahu gun club
Title: Re: Acquired Handguns
Post by: punaperson on May 31, 2017, 03:56:16 PM
Hawaiis place to keep laws are unconstional anyway.
Let's not get into that lengthy list on this thread.

The shorter list would be: constitutional Hawaii firearms/weapons laws.
Title: Re: Acquired Handguns
Post by: London808 on May 31, 2017, 04:21:46 PM
facebook Oahu gun club

SMH
Title: Re: Acquired Handguns
Post by: mrgaf on May 31, 2017, 05:35:17 PM
Wonder if they were ever registered to start with. Hope I'm wrong but just got a feeling something ain't rite. Wonder if it would be wise for leadfoot to check to see if they're registered (if possible) before going any further...... just saying..... :oops:
Title: Re: Acquired Handguns
Post by: GTEC on May 31, 2017, 06:55:51 PM
OP - if you already removed the handgun(s) from the property, you are already in possession of a handgun(s) that is/are not registered to you.
If it were me, I would call and have an officer come to take possession of the handgun(s) and explain the situation - backed up with the storage locker purchase documentation.
To have any chance at taking legal possession, I would take a case # from the receiving officer and make a trip to HPD firearms with all your documentation showing the purchase.
Being the "nice guy" in this case puts you at risk...where will you meet? will you get pulled over trying to meet up? etc. etc.

For both sides, 3 guns are not worth a possible possession/place to keep violation.

Bad situation all the way around
Title: Re: Acquired Handguns
Post by: Ikeonz on May 31, 2017, 07:10:39 PM
OP - if you already removed the handgun(s) from the property, you are already in possession of a handgun(s) that is/are not registered to you.
If it were me, I would call and have an officer come to take possession of the handgun(s) and explain the situation - backed up with the storage locker purchase documentation.
To have any chance at taking legal possession, I would take a case # from the receiving officer and make a trip to HPD firearms with all your documentation showing the purchase.
Being the "nice guy" in this case puts you at risk...where will you meet? will you get pulled over trying to meet up? etc. etc.

For both sides, 3 guns are not worth a possible possession/place to keep violation.

Bad situation all the way around


Agreed.... exactly what I was thinking. They really
Need to contact each other to straighten it out.
Title: Re: Acquired Handguns
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on May 31, 2017, 07:47:23 PM
OP - if you already removed the handgun(s) from the property, you are already in possession of a handgun(s) that is/are not registered to you.
If it were me, I would call and have an officer come to take possession of the handgun(s) and explain the situation - backed up with the storage locker purchase documentation.
To have any chance at taking legal possession, I would take a case # from the receiving officer and make a trip to HPD firearms with all your documentation showing the purchase.
Being the "nice guy" in this case puts you at risk...where will you meet? will you get pulled over trying to meet up? etc. etc.

For both sides, 3 guns are not worth a possible possession/place to keep violation.

Bad situation all the way around

Rather than go directly to HPD, have an FFL take possession.  They will coordinate with HPD when transferring the guns to themselves, and HPD can do their check to see if they have any interest in the guns.

Then the new owner applies for a permit and transfers them from the FFL as the current owner.

Simplest process.  There will be FFL fees, but it''l make the transfer smooth.
Title: Re: Acquired Handguns
Post by: GTEC on May 31, 2017, 08:20:00 PM
Rather than go directly to HPD, have an FFL take possession.  They will coordinate with HPD when transferring the guns to themselves, and HPD can do their check to see if they have any interest in the guns.

Then the new owner applies for a permit and transfers them from the FFL as the current owner.

Simplest process.  There will be FFL fees, but it''l make the transfer smooth.

FFL's need to get a permit to acquire handguns that are already in the state. Can't simply take possession.
If OP removed the handgun(s) from the property, who is the person the FFL is acquiring the handgun(s) from? Can't be the OP.
If the handgun(s) are still on the storage facility property, FFL may, and I stress may, be able to get HPD to allow some sort of lien possession with documentation (see my first post). Storage facility would act as "seller".
Title: Re: Acquired Handguns
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on May 31, 2017, 09:53:28 PM
FFL's need to get a permit to acquire handguns that are already in the state. Can't simply take possession.
If OP removed the handgun(s) from the property, who is the person the FFL is acquiring the handgun(s) from? Can't be the OP.
If the handgun(s) are still on the storage facility property, FFL may, and I stress may, be able to get HPD to allow some sort of lien possession with documentation (see my first post). Storage facility would act as "seller".

The owner prior to the FFL is the Storage company via a lien on the property.  The FFL will coordinate the necessary paperwork to transfer ownership from the Storage Co. to themselves.  Not much different than an estate transferring them to the FFL  while applying for permits to acquire or selling them on consignment.

You're over-thinking it.  This stuff happens all the time.

The guy asking for the guns back no longer owns them.  The storage company owns them and can transfer them to an FFL with appropriate lien paperwork. 

By storing them with an FFL right away, there is no risk of being in possession of unregistered firearms.
Title: Re: Acquired Handguns
Post by: jpndave on June 05, 2017, 06:47:45 PM
I'm new here to the forums and from out of state. I started with a search on providing instruction for "Permit to Acquire" for some friends there. I am planning to move and Honestly the gun laws are my biggest hangup.

So, I have an FFL and have had for over 20 years. I am an NRA Pistol (and other disciplines also) instructor. From Utah, I am also an in and out of state Concealed Permit instructor as well as a Hunter's education instructor. I have done extensive research on the Hawaii laws (which make me ill if I'm honest). I still have more to learn.

This situation wouldn't be a situation in most other states. Federally, there isn't a hangup or a need for an FFL to get involved as long as whoever purchases then guns can legally own them.

Throw in the Hawaii laws and now it gets tricky because of your "Permit to Acquire" requirements. If they were anything but a handgun and you have a current permit, just register within the required time frame and you should be good. If not, or if you have a handgun I can see where the FFL would be necessary as a legal "storage" location while the paperwork is sorted out.

If I'm off here please excuse the ignorance. Crazy dilemmas this state puts you all in. I hope I can help out when I get over there finally.

Title: Re: Acquired Handguns
Post by: dustoff003 on June 05, 2017, 06:55:15 PM
Any updates from the concerned parties?


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Title: Re: Acquired Handguns
Post by: zippz on June 05, 2017, 07:12:05 PM
I'm new here to the forums and from out of state. I started with a search on providing instruction for "Permit to Acquire" for some friends there. I am planning to move and Honestly the gun laws are my biggest hangup.

So, I have an FFL and have had for over 20 years. I am an NRA Pistol (and other disciplines also) instructor. From Utah, I am also an in and out of state Concealed Permit instructor as well as a Hunter's education instructor. I have done extensive research on the Hawaii laws (which make me ill if I'm honest). I still have more to learn.

This situation wouldn't be a situation in most other states. Federally, there isn't a hangup or a need for an FFL to get involved as long as whoever purchases then guns can legally own them.

Throw in the Hawaii laws and now it gets tricky because of your "Permit to Acquire" requirements. If they were anything but a handgun and you have a current permit, just register within the required time frame and you should be good. If not, or if you have a handgun I can see where the FFL would be necessary as a legal "storage" location while the paperwork is sorted out.

If I'm off here please excuse the ignorance. Crazy dilemmas this state puts you all in. I hope I can help out when I get over there finally.

Easiest way is to bring your guns with you in checkin bags, then register them by going to Honolulu PD main station at 801 S Beretania St weekdays 8 to 3, entrance to the parking lot is in the back of the station.  Bring $42 cash & money for the parking meter, and name & address of your medical provider.  Bring your guns unloaded in a case, leave your magazines at home.

If you want to tour the different ranges and shooting groups on the island, join my group www.meetup.com/HawaiiGGG

Summary of gun laws:  http://hawaiirifleassociation.org/hawaii-gun-laws/
HPD:  http://honolulupd.org/index.php
Title: Re: Acquired Handguns
Post by: Lead foot on June 05, 2017, 07:30:17 PM
Sorry don't have an update yet. Haven't heard from them since I posted the question.  Will post when I get word. 
Title: Re: Acquired Handguns
Post by: jpndave on June 05, 2017, 07:48:52 PM
Easiest way is to bring your guns with you in checkin bags, then register them by going to Honolulu PD main station at 801 S Beretania St weekdays 8 to 3, entrance to the parking lot is in the back of the station.  Bring $42 cash & money for the parking meter, and name & address of your medical provider.  Bring your guns unloaded in a case, leave your magazines at home.

If you want to tour the different ranges and shooting groups on the island, join my group www.meetup.com/HawaiiGGG

Summary of gun laws:  http://hawaiirifleassociation.org/hawaii-gun-laws/
HPD:  http://honolulupd.org/index.php

Thanks zippz I signed up with your group. I'm very experienced with the national laws, just new to this madness. Are you just referring to the high capacity magazines, not sure why you threw that in there? Have a doc friend over there that I'm helping out with his NRA Basic so covered that way or I can use my local Doc if necessary. Only bringing a few on this trip and none are high capacity. Got to have magazines or they won't fire and wouldn't be much point in bringing them at all. I might do a Hunter's Ed and Concealed for them while I'm at it. We'll see how time goes.

Mahalo,

Dave
Title: Re: Acquired Handguns
Post by: London808 on June 05, 2017, 07:56:39 PM
Thanks zippz I signed up with your group. I'm very experienced with the national laws, just new to this madness. Are you just referring to the high capacity magazines, not sure why you threw that in there? Have a doc friend over there that I'm helping out with his NRA Basic so covered that way or I can use my local Doc if necessary. Only bringing a few on this trip and none are high capacity. Got to have magazines or they won't fire and wouldn't be much point in bringing them at all. I might do a Hunter's Ed and Concealed for them while I'm at it. We'll see how time goes.

Mahalo,

Dave

He means dont take magazines to the police station.
Title: Re: Acquired Handguns
Post by: dogman on June 05, 2017, 08:14:56 PM
Are you just referring to the high capacity magazines, not sure why you threw that in there? Have a doc friend over there that I'm helping out with his NRA Basic so covered that way or I can use my local Doc if necessary. Only bringing a few on this trip and none are high capacity. Got to have magazines or they won't fire and wouldn't be much point in bringing them at all. I might do a Hunter's Ed and Concealed for them while I'm at it. We'll see how time goes.
Mahalo,
Dave
zippz means don't bring any magazines with you to HPD, no reason to. Standard capacity pistol magazines which hold more than ten rounds are also not allowed  :( >:(
Title: Re: Acquired Handguns
Post by: jpndave on June 06, 2017, 07:43:34 AM
That makes more sense. Thanks for the clarification.