2aHawaii
Tools and Uses => Firearms and Accessories => Topic started by: luckydog1 on May 31, 2017, 02:05:53 PM
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Mosin Nagant accurizing kit. While browsing GunBroker.com I ran across several accurizing kits for sale. The kit involves shimming several areas of the action to the rifle stock and uses either a rag or cork pieces to shim the barrel. Has anyone had any experience with the mod?http://www.gunbroker.com/item/644613571. Either my Mosins are in dire need of something like this or I need a new pair of glasses.
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Mosin Nagant accurizing kit. While browsing GunBroker.com I ran across several accurizing kits for sale. The kit involves shimming several areas of the action to the rifle stock and uses either a rag or cork pieces to shim the barrel. Has anyone had any experience with the mod?http://www.gunbroker.com/item/644613571. Either my Mosins are in dire need of something like this or I need a new pair of glasses.
did you have someone else shoot them to see how accurate they are?
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How is the grouping at 100 yds?
If you read closely, the accurizing kits are intended for sniper-grade models that you might want to be more accurate than a battle rifle.
My 4 Mosins were spot-on right out of the crate. I have 2 x 91/30 and 2 x M44. I can consistently hit 6" & 8" steel at 100 yds.
The lowest rear sight adjustment is 100M, so you may have to aim low at 100 yds and closer. When we were allowed to use the 240 yd targets on the hill, we were using the 200M setting, and they were all right on it.
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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170601/579b0d8ce0d9e597bdd4457fdb865f66.jpg)I won an accuracy kit last year in a giveaway by www.themosincrate.com. The kit is from https://www.milsurpaccuracyinc.com it is the same as the one you linked to to Gun Broker minus the cork.
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=24773.msg222028#msg222028
I don't plan on taking my 91/30 apart anytime soon however I did recently acquire a Type 53 carbine that I planed to shoot as is and then install the accuracy kit and compare the results.
I too have to aim low and slightly left to hit my 8" steel at KHSC.
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Well, I shoot my 91/30 so badly, just wanted to know if someone had tried these things. Doing very large 6" plus groups on the rest with iron sights and surp ammo. Shoot my Swiss a lot better so I thought to look for improvements. Doing 30 inch pounds on the screws. Shims look a lot easier than glass bedding speaking personally.
Being a total Mosin newbie, thought I'd inquire here before I order a kit.
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Aimpoint is a stick on red dot a handspan low at a hundred. I need to find out how the heck the Russians beat the Germans with this rifle.
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I added a kit I bought several years ago but don't remember which one. I'm not sure if the shims help but the trigger is a definite improvement by adding two thin washers to the trigger screw. I can't remember if I added a spring. It's basically similar to the following video. Next time I'll take the rifle apart to inspect. Haven't done that in a while.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty_u4jo3GHc
Aimpoint is a stick on red dot a handspan low at a hundred. I need to find out how the heck the Russians beat the Germans with this rifle.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_YnukvBCvWxc/TJ4e_oxq2vI/AAAAAAAAABM/9iO11WXIbFk/s1600/sights.jpg)
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macsac your suggestion is well taken. I will convince a friend to send a few rounds down at 100 yards. He normally outshoots me with iron but not by much. My windage seems to be OK but these pie plate sized groups get to me. I will start keeping my targets for record. Maybe I should get a Lead Sled.
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macsac your suggestion is well taken. I will convince a friend to send a few rounds down at 100 yards. He normally outshoots me with iron but not by much. My windage seems to be OK but these pie plate sized groups get to me. I will start keeping my targets for record. Maybe I should get a Lead Sled.
Lead Sled Plus for sale
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=27616.0
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Well, I shoot my 91/30 so badly, just wanted to know if someone had tried these things. Doing very large 6" plus groups on the rest with iron sights and surp ammo. Shoot my Swiss a lot better so I thought to look for improvements. Doing 30 inch pounds on the screws. Shims look a lot easier than glass bedding speaking personally.
Being a total Mosin newbie, thought I'd inquire here before I order a kit.
Don't be so quick to think you can easily solve your mosin woes. Some Mosins have a barrel groove diameter as much as 0.315". Mine is 0.314". Most commercial ammo for the Mosin has bullets in the 0.308" to 0.311" range. Meaning they can rattle around going down the barrel. Not literally, but it does affect accuracy. You can slug your barrel and find out the groove diameter and find a commercial load/bullet that closely matches this. I reload using a lead bullet with a 0.315" diameter and jacketed bullets that are 0.312". Using jacketed bullets that are 0.311" would be marginal for my Mosin. So most commercial ammo works okay but not as good as my reloads.
With that said, the trigger and the sights on my Mosin sucked big time. With my bad eyes I could hardly hit the 12" gong out at 100yds. I bought Mojo sights for mine: www.mojosights.com and a Timney trigger. The sights helped a lot. Including being able to set them to point of aim, meaning you don't have to shoot at the bottom of your target to make hits in the center. The Timney trigger was just because I wanted it. I spent more than twice the cost of the rifle on these two items. At least with these items I could hit the gong consistently with commercial ammo.
I hope this helps you some. :shaka: :shaka: :shaka:
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macsac your suggestion is well taken. I will convince a friend to send a few rounds down at 100 yards. He normally outshoots me with iron but not by much. My windage seems to be OK but these pie plate sized groups get to me. I will start keeping my targets for record. Maybe I should get a Lead Sled.
I have a lead sled and I have used it in the past to sight in guns. For me, it helped take out a number of variables and helped me better evaluate the accuracy, or at least accuracy potential, of the gun. So after getting a good idea of what it is capable of with a very stable platform, that I can tell how much was "software error". However, you still need to be able to line up the sights properly and consistently. While the lead sled does give you a stable shooting platform, I had to shift it slightly to realign the sights after each shot. Maybe it would have helped if I had weights for the sled, but I think I would still have to shift it slightly after each shot. Anyways, just mentioned that since you somewhat hinted (or was joking) about your eyesight. While I believe the lead sled certainly helps with evaluating accuracy potential, consistent/good sight picture is still critical.
Anyways, let me know if you'd like to test your rifle out with the lead sled. Maybe I can meet up with you at the rifle range one day.
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SNIP
With my bad eyes I could hardly hit the 12" gong out at 100yds.
Well, you have to be able to actually see the target in order to start to align the sights. . . ???
;D :rofl:
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Well, you have to be able to actually see the target in order to start to align the sights. . . ???
;D :rofl:
The problem (when you get to be my age with bad eyesight) is I can see the target, I can see the rear sight and I can see the front sight. The problem comes when I cannot focus well enough to see the front sight well enough to put it in the notch on the rear sight. And if it is that blurry, then I cannot align it with the target very well either. That is my problem with both pistol and rifle. Focusing on the front sight and getting it positioned correctly both in the rear sight and on the target. And sometimes it is not only blurry but there can be more than one depending on the size and color of the sight. Black front sights on a black gong or target don't work well for me either. BTW, some sights have a good enough sight picture that I can work within my blurred front sight problem. The other problem I have is when the rifle has the ears to protect the front sight I occasionally mistake one of the ears for the front sight. I have stopped doing that for the most part but it sure is embarrassing when I realize what I did. </facepalm>
I am experimenting with painting my front sights white (and other colors) in order to be able to line things up easier.
Red dots and scopes are great!!! It's just I cannot fathom putting a red dot or scope on an old battle rifle. I do what I can with what I have to work with.
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The problem (when you get to be my age with bad eyesight) is I can see the target, I can see the rear sight and I can see the front sight. The problem comes when I cannot focus well enough to see the front sight well enough to put it in the notch on the rear sight. And if it is that blurry, then I cannot align it with the target very well either. That is my problem with both pistol and rifle. Focusing on the front sight and getting it positioned correctly both in the rear sight and on the target. And sometimes it is not only blurry but there can be more than one depending on the size and color of the sight. Black front sights on a black gong or target don't work well for me either. BTW, some sights have a good enough sight picture that I can work within my blurred front sight problem. The other problem I have is when the rifle has the ears to protect the front sight I occasionally mistake one of the ears for the front sight. I have stopped doing that for the most part but it sure is embarrassing when I realize what I did. </facepalm>
I am experimenting with painting my front sights white (and other colors) in order to be able to line things up easier.
Red dots and scopes are great!!! It's just I cannot fathom putting a red dot or scope on an old battle rifle. I do what I can with what I have to work with.
I was kidding and teasing ya. ;D
That said, I've found that I am really helped by "brighter" front sights. Both for picking them up quickly and focus. I've been going toward FO front sights for competition guns and even looking to transition defensive/training guns to them. My 1911 9 mm has a plain front sight and I've been meaning to pain with orange or some other bright color nail polish.
I haven't done that with ARs. While my ARs have irons, I mainly use the red dot.
I agree that I can't envision a red dot on something like a Mosin, 1903, M1 Garand, etc.
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I was kidding and teasing ya. ;D
That said, I've found that I am really helped by "brighter" front sights. Both for picking them up quickly and focus. I've been going toward FO front sights for competition guns and even looking to transition defensive/training guns to them. My 1911 9 mm has a plain front sight and I've been meaning to pain with orange or some other bright color nail polish.
I haven't done that with ARs. While my ARs have irons, I mainly use the red dot.
I agree that I can't envision a red dot on something like a Mosin, 1903, M1 Garand, etc.
I knew you were keeding.
I just hope that I can help other OF's that have the same probs with their eyes that I do. That was my intent anyway. If it sounded like I was whining, just ignore that part. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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I wear bifocals and I've been experimenting with different colored backgrounds. I don't have evidence but I believe the layout of the targets and contrasting color makes a difference in accuracy. With my Mosin red dot, I have to use the black splatter targets. I spray paint the metal targets with black paint every time. I once tried off white and that didn't work.
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Don't be so quick to think you can easily solve your mosin woes. Some Mosins have a barrel groove diameter as much as 0.315". Mine is 0.314". Most commercial ammo for the Mosin has bullets in the 0.308" to 0.311" range. Meaning they can rattle around going down the barrel. Not literally, but it does affect accuracy. You can slug your barrel and find out the groove diameter and find a commercial load/bullet that closely matches this. I reload using a lead bullet with a 0.315" diameter and jacketed bullets that are 0.312". Using jacketed bullets that are 0.311" would be marginal for my Mosin. So most commercial ammo works okay but not as good as my reloads.
With that said, the trigger and the sights on my Mosin sucked big time. With my bad eyes I could hardly hit the 12" gong out at 100yds. I bought Mojo sights for mine: www.mojosights.com and a Timney trigger. The sights helped a lot. Including being able to set them to point of aim, meaning you don't have to shoot at the bottom of your target to make hits in the center. The Timney trigger was just because I wanted it. I spent more than twice the cost of the rifle on these two items. At least with these items I could hit the gong consistently with commercial ammo.
I hope this helps you some. :shaka: :shaka: :shaka:
Come to think of it my muzzle virtually swallows my mil surp 7.72 X 54R with only the tiniest part of the bullet head showing. And these 70 year old eyes have very much the problem you were describing. Hmmmm....back to basics! :oops:
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Come to think of it my muzzle virtually swallows my mil surp 7.72 X 54R with only the tiniest part of the bullet head showing. And these 70 year old eyes have very much the problem you were describing. Hmmmm....back to basics! :oops:
If I were you, I would also take the advice of the previous posters who suggested you let someone else shoot the gun as well as trying to get groupings at 50 yards (I can't see a target well enough at 100 :rofl:). This will help you get a good baseline. I also found that the commercial ammo with the heavier heavier bullets in the 200 grain range shoots better in my Mosin than the commercial ammo with the bullets in the 150-175 range. Your Mosin may not act the same as mine tho. The lighter bullets might shoot better? I suggest for a baseline you stick with one ammo choice until you find out where it hits, how well it is shooting and what sort of groups you come up with. Then you can try out the lighter or heavier bullets.
If you want you can bring it by the range on a Sunday morning. I will bring my Mosin and you can see what the sights and the trigger can do for it.
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luckydog what model M-N rifles do you have? Have you tried firing the rifles with the bayonet mounted or extended?
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luckydog what model M-N rifles do you have? Have you tried firing the rifles with the bayonet mounted or extended?
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OK. I have 2 ea. 91/30s, one with quite a bit of muzzle wear. And one non matching M38. All pass the headspace discs with flying colors. Worst shooter is that Mosin with the muzzle wear but M38 also shoots atrocious. My glasses allow me close to 20/20 vision but focusing is a real problem. I shoot diopter sights a lot better.
Ron
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I never bothered to shoot with the bayo attached; very difficult to remove that implement for me. Should I try?
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OK. I have 2 ea. 91/30s, one with quite a bit of muzzle wear. And one non matching M38. All pass the headspace discs with flying colors. Worst shooter is that Mosin with the muzzle wear but M38 also shoots atrocious. My glasses allow me close to 20/20 vision but focusing is a real problem. I shoot diopter sights a lot better.
Ron
Luckydog,
I don't remember if you reload for your Mosin or not? If so I will be happy to provide you with some larger diameter bullets you can try. Both lead and jacketed. Just LMK what your barrel slugs out to.
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Mostly off topic, but I watched Enemy At The Gates over the weekend. Damn, those Mosins are damn accurate shooters! Well, the Mauser apparently was super accurate as well! :P
Anyways, back to topic. :stopjack:
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Luckydog,
I don't remember if you reload for your Mosin or not? If so I will be happy to provide you with some larger diameter bullets you can try. Both lead and jacketed. Just LMK what your barrel slugs out to.
This weekend, just bought bullets, powder, 7.62 X 54R dies, empty primed cases and de burring tool. Also bought 100 ea. reloaded ammo with the minimum IMR 4895 load for the Russian. I know I need a whole lot more to start the presses but no, haven't slugged any barrels or muggers yet. Using the corrosive stuff for now and truth be told, sub par shooting with the Mosins prompted me to start reloading. Now for a press......
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I never bothered to shoot with the bayo attached; very difficult to remove that implement for me. Should I try?
Congrats on getting some reloading supplies, I hope to one day do the same.
This is just going off what I read on the internet in a few places, M-N rifles were sighted at the arsenal/factory with the bayonet installed or in the case of a bayoneted carbine deployed. It was Russian/Soviet doctrine to have bayonets affixed always. Supposedly the having the bayonet installed will bring the point of aim and the point of impact together. Search the net you can find what I found and or try it for yourself. I haven't shot my 91/30 with the bayonet installed next time I take it to the range I will, if I can remember to bring the bayonet. I will shoot my carbine with bayonet stowed and then with it deployed and then I will install those shims and try again stowed and deployed.
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This weekend, just bought bullets, powder, 7.62 X 54R dies, empty primed cases and de burring tool. Also bought 100 ea. reloaded ammo with the minimum IMR 4895 load for the Russian. I know I need a whole lot more to start the presses but no, haven't slugged any barrels or muggers yet. Using the corrosive stuff for now and truth be told, sub par shooting with the Mosins prompted me to start reloading. Now for a press......
Okay. The offer is still open if you want to come over with your primed cases we can load some reduced loads (Lead and/or Jacketed).
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Okay. The offer is still open if you want to come over with your primed cases we can load some reduced loads (Lead and/or Jacketed).
Perhaps you could show me how to slug the rifle too? I bought the lead weights but haven't figured out the rest.
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Perhaps you could show me how to slug the rifle too? I bought the lead weights but haven't figured out the rest.
This should help: http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinSlug.htm
There are a few YouTube vids out there also.
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Looks like I need to get some grease.
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Great info, guys. Like Dave mentions, slugging should be first. Looking for few .32 caliber balls. :shaka:
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Great info, guys. Like Dave mentions, slugging should be first. Looking for few .32 caliber balls. :shaka:
I bought a bag of 1/4 oz egg sinkers but they're too big. I tried to make one narrower with pliers. I guess I need to get 1/8 oz lead balls instead.
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Great info, guys. Like Dave mentions, slugging should be first. Looking for few .32 caliber balls. :shaka:
I used a 44 cal ball and I put it between two metal plates and rolled it into a cylinder until it got close to .30 cal. Then I used it as the slug. If you need some .44 cal balls I have plenty.
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I used a 44 cal ball and I put it between two metal plates and rolled it into a cylinder until it got close to .30 cal. Then I used it as the slug. If you need some .44 cal balls I have plenty.
Mutant. . . ;D
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Mutant. . . ;D
I have been called a lot of things in my life but never an AR that fires AK-47 ammo.
https://www.cmmginc.com/shop/rifle-mk47-akm2-7-62x39mm-sbn-mutant/
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Mutant. . . ;D
You're just jealous!!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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You're just jealous!!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Of your 44 Cal lead balls? Uh, no. . . ;D
Well, you're giving a bunch of them away, so I applaud you for sharing. :rofl:
:stopjack:
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I knew this was going to quickly degrade into double entendres. It's not easy to describe pounding balls into my barrel without the corresponding jokes.
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I knew this was going to quickly degrade into double entendres. It's not easy to describe pounding balls into my barrel without the corresponding jokes.
Pound slugs into your barrel instead of balls. Sounds more manly. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Is one ball enough, or two?
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Is one ball enough, or two?
Depends on how much vigor you have. :rofl:
Most videos I've seen repeat two more times then average the results.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErFaJlUVs1Y
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Through hook or crook, I mostly successfully slugged the bore. The problem is that my balls are too big. I had to smash them in my vise to make them fit. It wasn't easy.
It came out to .313". That would explain why the .312 is more accurate than the .311 bullet. The thing is I don't know where to find jacketed .313 bullets.
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Is one ball enough, or two?
I think one ball, i.e. once, is enough. If you do it right I see no need to do it multiple times. If you do it right each time you should get the exact same results each time.
BTW, I found an old box of .36 cal lead balls if any one wants one or two for slugging your barrel. You will still have to do something to them to reduce their size before you use it.