2aHawaii
Tools and Uses => Firearms and Accessories => Reviews => Topic started by: Inspector on June 25, 2017, 03:50:30 PM
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This review is about the Limbsaver Bull Barrel Deresonator (Barrel Tuner) also known as LimbSaver Sharpshooter X-Ring Barrel Dampener. I purchased it through Amazon Prime for under $8. However, you can only get the free shipping if you add it on to your order with something else. Here is the link.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000KOWE82/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Background:
I own an older Anschutz Model 64 Target model which I purchased with my allowance back in 1970. So the gun is 47 years old, I was 12 years old when I bought it. I shot competition with it from 12 to 14 years old. Back then I only shot Remington green box standard velocity out of the gun. All competition was shot at 50 feet in prone, sitting, kneeling and standing. After around 16 the gun was put away and I did not shoot it again until I moved here (Oahu) 7 years ago. After having to fix a warped stock, replacing the Olympic sights with a cheap scope I started trying to test the gun with every brand and type of .22 ammo I could find on the island. While I found some ammo that would group well, I would get flyers every few rounds. The flyers would open up 50 yard groups from around .75" to 1.25-1.50" groups. I tried everything I could think of to close up those flyers. Nothing worked. So I decided to do the last thing I know might work and that is a barrel tuner.
I found an all metal barrel tuner online that ran around $100 so I waited until I had the money and I was ready to buy it when I searched for it on Amazon and found this rubber barrel tuner for under $8. For 8 bucks I can be a big spender. I found a YouTube video with this product and decided to order it. I read the instructions and put a light layer of Ballistol inside the tuner and placed it over the barrel about 1" from the muzzle end. I chose a couple of average ammo choices and tried to shoot for groups. I first shot a 3 round group with Aguila Sub Sonic of about 0.50" at 50 yards. I increased the group size to 5 rounds and one round opened it up to about 0.75". A 10 round group was around 1" while shooting with a light wind. I was very happy with these results. Then I tried Aguila Golden Eagle which is the equivalent of CCI Standard Velocity. First group of 3 all touched!!! A grouping of 10 was 0.50". After establishing a baseline I now moved the tuner one half inch towards the breech as described in the instructions. Immediately the groups opened up noticably. I moved the tuner back and the groups tightened right back up. Next step is to try some real high quality ammo such as SK Standard + and SK Rifle Match which I have a supply of.
I am very happy with the quality of this product and for the price it works very well. I finally decided to shoot a group of 50 rounds and not try to wait for the wind to die down. So with the wind I shot a 50 round group at 50 yards at just under 1" with the Aguila Golden Eagle.
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But does it come in colors?
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But does it come in colors?
heads
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(http://images.onhealth.com/images/slideshow/19-habits-that-wreck-your-teeth-s4-photo-of-tongue-bar.jpg)
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But does it come in colors?
oldfart, that actually doesn't help much with accuracy. :rofl:
Seriously, I was tempted to try one on my AR-15 but decided it looked too weird on my heavy barrel.
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Seriously, I was tempted to try one on my AR-15 but decided it looked too weird on my heavy barrel.
Turn it around 180 degrees so it doesn't look so weird. :wacko: :wacko: :wacko:
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But does it come in colors?
That can cause negligent discharge of your 'weapon' if not careful...
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That can cause negligent discharge of your 'weapon' if not careful...
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:rofl:
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On a more serious note Inspector. How does it do at other distances? I've read that barrel tuners are superb at the distance tuned, however, must be re-tuned at different yardlines.
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On a more serious note Inspector. How does it do at other distances? I've read that barrel tuners are superb at the distance tuned, however, must be re-tuned at different yardlines.
Never heard that before. I only shot it at 50 yards. I was just so happy it tightened up the groups. Next time, when I bring it with better ammo I'll try it out to 100 yards and I'll report back.
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Never heard that before. I only shot it at 50 yards. I was just so happy it tightened up the groups. Next time, when I bring it with better ammo I'll try it out to 100 yards and I'll report back.
Right on. Thanks for experimenting. I do know barrel tuners are quite popular with benchrest shooters, in both .22lr and centerfire rifles. Of course they use those big dollar metal micrometer adjustable doodads.. I guess when .0001" groups can make a difference, guys try anything for an edge.
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Right on. Thanks for experimenting. I do know barrel tuners are quite popular with benchrest shooters, in both .22lr and centerfire rifles. Of course they use those big dollar metal micrometer adjustable doodads.. I guess when .0001" groups can make a difference, guys try anything for an edge.
Those big dollar metal ones are $100+. I couldn't see myself buying one of those because I have .22 rifles that shoot even better without the tuner. This rifle has a lot of sentimental value and I shoot it a lot. I just knew it could do better than it was doing. Thinking it could shoot much better before I put the tuner on I even went as far as shooting some of my period correct Remington Green Box Standard Velocity from the 60's. That is what I shot out of it when I shot competition. And it still didn't group as well as I thought it should.
I just bought a used Leupold VX-III 4.5-14 and I think this rifle deserves it now that it shoots pretty good. I'll put it on and try out some match quality ammo and report back.
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I just ordered one from Amazon for $7.39.
I want to see first-hand how it works, compared to the Harrell tuner I have....
$7.39 vs. $150 and then some with extra weights....................... :'(
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Yes, in colors. Black & Tan ;)
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I just ordered one from Amazon for $7.39.
I want to see first-hand how it works, compared to the Harrell tuner I have....
$7.39 vs. $150 and then some with extra weights....................... :'(
I didn't want to spend all that money on a tuner and not have it make a difference on my rifle. That is why I figured it was worth the $7.39 to find out. Now that I know it works well, I might consider getting the Harrell. I want to see how well it does with some good quality target/match ammo first. I'm not expecting perfection. Just basic small groups without one or two fliers that open the group up tremendously.
I have no doubt that the Harrell tuner will probably do much better than this product. I am interested in hearing from you about how it works for you when you get it. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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I just ordered one from Amazon for $7.39.
I want to see first-hand how it works, compared to the Harrell tuner I have....
$7.39 vs. $150 and then some with extra weights....................... :'(
Auwe >:(
In my rush to order this from Amazon, I neglected to double-check the size - standard barrel vs bull barrel......
Ordering another one for bull barrel.......................
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Auwe >:(
In my rush to order this from Amazon, I neglected to double-check the size - standard barrel vs bull barrel......
Ordering another one for bull barrel.......................
Shucks, sorry about that. At least it was not a lot of money.
I am going to be testing my Anschutz this weekend with some better ammo than my original testing. I will be testing SK Standard +, SK Rifle Match and Eley Target. Between those three I should get some good results.
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Maybe see you there this weekend.
I plan to test Eley Target (yellow box), Aguila, Norma TAC-22. The last time I took some
Norma to Kokohead, it shot the best out the ammo I was testing......
My Anschutz 64 by its build and name, should shoot better than a Kidd 10/22, but I'm finding out
that my Kidd shoots just as well................
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Maybe see you there this weekend.
I plan to test Eley Target (yellow box), Aguila, Norma TAC-22. The last time I took some
Norma to Kokohead, it shot the best out the ammo I was testing......
My Anschutz 64 by its build and name, should shoot better than a Kidd 10/22, but I'm finding out
that my Kidd shoots just as well................
Both of my Kidd's shoot better than my Anschutz. But we'll see now that the barrel tuner seems to have an effect on my Annie. It would be nice to see if it will really shoot now the way an Anschutz should. For the price I might even put the barrel tuner on my Kidd's to see if they improve.
Some of the Lapua Ammo is the same as the SK ammo. Not sure which is which but I think I read that somewhere. Also, same as some of the Wolf ammo. Not sure but I think RWS makes Norma ammo.
Besides the SK Standard + and SK Rifle Match and Eley Target Yellow Box I am going to be bringing a selection of ammo that was available during the same period I was shooting my Anschutz to see how they compare to today's ammo. I believe I have some Remington SV and Winchester X and a box or two of some WInchester match ammo. I'll see what I have in my stash.
I will be at rifle bench #94 on Sunday from 7am until 11am. If you can make it out that early I hope to see you there. Let me know if you are going to come. Could we do a little trade? A box or two of my SK Standard + ammo for a box or two of the Norma Tac-22? I think they are both in the same price range.
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The bull is cheaper than the standard.
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The bull is cheaper than the standard.
Yes, I saw that.........................
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Got the Annie to the range today with a good supply of ammo. I tested from 50 yards today. I seasoned the barrel before shooting each grouping except with the old .22 ammo. It was very windy today so testing is a bit suspect. I waited until the wind died down before I let off the shot. But there was a time when the wind did not stop so I let off shots anyway. And I was impressed with the grouping from the Eley Target Yellow Box with the wind blowing. I will attach some photos and you will see left to right stringing which means the wind got to the boolit. Also, I forgot the method with which to best bench rest this gun so I had some testing to do in order to get the best consistency.
I started off with SK Standard + and I used this ammo for testing the best methodology for bench resting my Annie. After I figured it out I shot a 5 round group but I was not impressed with it. For the first time I found this ammo does not shoot as well as I would hope in the Anschutz. It shoots okay but not as well as it does in my Kidd's. I did not include a photo of this group. My next group shot was with SK Rifle Match. I had a suspicion this was a good ammo for this gun from previous testing. As you see from the photo this ammo grouped the best. The next ammo was Eley Target Yellow Box which grouped well even with the left to right stringing. I suspect it will shoot similarly to the SK Rifle Match. I brought a selection of obsolete .22 ammo from various manufacturers just to see the results. I always wondered how the old stuff shot in the Anschutz when I was shooting it back in the early 70's. The rest of the photos show how the old .22 ammo grouped. I did not season the barrel for these groups.
Overall I am happy with the way the barrel tuner is working. It is not a miracle product but it does help prevent flyers as I was getting without it. This tuner is a permanent fixture on my Anschutz.
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Good analysis. The old ammo testing is good if you have a large stash of it, or did you just test the old ammo for old times sake?
I've been getting mixed results with the SK Standard + also. My Anschutz 64 action & Kidd 10/22 groups are nothing
to be proud of.
The SK Rifle Match (red) looks really good. Where did you get this?
Got my Limbsaver for the bull barrel from Amazon today. Will try it out on my Annie this weekend. Will try to analyze
SK Standard+ and Eley Target (yellow) very carefully............
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Good analysis. The old ammo testing is good if you have a large stash of it, or did you just test the old ammo for old times sake?
I've been getting mixed results with the SK Standard + also. My Anschutz 64 action & Kidd 10/22 groups are nothing
to be proud of.
The SK Rifle Match (red) looks really good. Where did you get this?
Got my Limbsaver for the bull barrel from Amazon today. Will try it out on my Annie this weekend. Will try to analyze
SK Standard+ and Eley Target (yellow) very carefully............
I got the SK Rifle Match at Prime Sports. It was $90/brick. A little pricey but worth it to me the way it shoots. I think the Eley Target has the capability to shoot similarly but it was too hard to tell because of the wind. If you take the L to R stringing out of the results I got it looks like the group would be similar to the SK Rifle Match.
I tested the old ammo for a couple of reasons. First, I collect old .22 boxes and I want to put them on display. Some of the old boxes of ammo I have, I have to dispose of the ammo because it is no good any more. The problem is the old ammo just deteriorates and I hate to waste anything. The other side of this is if I ever decide to sell the boxes to someone on the mainland or transport them to the mainland I have to get rid of the ammo anyway. So shooting the old ammo out of my old gun just seemed to make sense for whatever reason. Besides just my being nostalgic. :love: :love: :love:
Next weeks testing will be the Kidd's without the barrel tuner but with the chronograph. Stay tuned.
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I put the Limbsaver on my Anschutz Thumbhole Rifle that I got from the Anschutz North America website with an 18" barrel.
I can say that it has made an improvement with it on, versus with it off.
My experience has shown that the Limbsaver's does improve shot-stringing, but not as much as I hoped.
I tried it these past 2 weekends with Eley Target (Yellow), SK Standard +, and Norma TAC-22.
SK and Eley were so-so, but Norma TAC-22 really showed improvement shooting WITH the Limbsaver...
Have to try it with other types of target ammo, so see if I can improve its performance.
The type of ammo will also make a difference.....
If your rifle shoots "average", then maybe experimenting with a Limbsaver is a cheap project of about $8.00....
It might make a difference with your rifle.
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I put the Limbsaver on my Anschutz Thumbhole Rifle that I got from the Anschutz North America website with an 18" barrel.
I can say that it has made an improvement with it on, versus with it off.
My experience has shown that the Limbsaver's does improve shot-stringing, but not as much as I hoped.
I tried it these past 2 weekends with Eley Target (Yellow), SK Standard +, and Norma TAC-22.
SK and Eley were so-so, but Norma TAC-22 really showed improvement shooting WITH the Limbsaver...
Have to try it with other types of target ammo, so see if I can improve its performance.
The type of ammo will also make a difference.....
If your rifle shoots "average", then maybe experimenting with a Limbsaver is a cheap project of about $8.00....
It might make a difference with your rifle.
Your results are similar to mine. I am glad I decided to try this because if I had bought the micrometer type for $100+ and it didn't help I would be a little upset. Now I know I can buy the better type and it will help. How much more than this $8 Limbsaver remains to be seen. But I think the $8 was a good investment prior to taking the big plunge.
Thanks for trying this out as I now know I am not the only one who this worked for.
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Inspector,
I think we have shown that this works to a certain extent, but not as much as we hoped for.
If you take the next step to the Harrell Tuner, they have it at Killough's. Read about it there, and then order it from Harrell.
Get it from Harrell's itself, and they don't charge you $15 to bore it out to your barrel's exact diameter.
http://harrellsprec.com/index.php/products/harrell-rimfire-tuners-403
https://www.killoughshootingsports.com/index.php/tuners.html
Killough's doesn't have the additional weights, but if you go to the source, Riverside Machine, they have the set available.
https://www.riversidemachine.net/ecommerce/shooting/tuner-weights.html
The Harrell Tuner is more exact as it has a micrometer-like mechanism to extend the weights outward from the barrel.
The additional weights can be used in combination to vary the weight at the end of the tuner.
(I have this setup on my Kidd 10/22)
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Inspector,
I think we have shown that this works to a certain extent, but not as much as we hoped for.
If you take the next step to the Harrell Tuner, they have it at Killough's. Read about it there, and then order it from Harrell.
Get it from Harrell's itself, and they don't charge you $15 to bore it out to your barrel's exact diameter.
http://harrellsprec.com/index.php/products/harrell-rimfire-tuners-403
https://www.killoughshootingsports.com/index.php/tuners.html
Killough's doesn't have the additional weights, but if you go to the source, Riverside Machine, they have the set available.
https://www.riversidemachine.net/ecommerce/shooting/tuner-weights.html
The Harrell Tuner is more exact as it has a micrometer-like mechanism to extend the weights outward from the barrel.
The additional weights can be used in combination to vary the weight at the end of the tuner.
(I have this setup on my Kidd 10/22)
ESK808,
Thanks for the links and advice as to where best to get the Harrell Tuner. I will be getting one for my Annie. The next test for the limbsaver will be on my 2 Kidd 10/22's. I am especially interested in how it works on my lightweight build.
Mahalo :shaka: :shaka: :shaka:
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It has arrived!
$6.54 as an Amazon Add On item.
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:D Yay !!
Tell us how it works for you ...............
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It has arrived!
$6.54 as an Amazon Add On item.
Tell us RK, what gun are you going to try this on?
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I figured I'd try it on my AR15 since it has no muzzle break.
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I figured I'd try it on my AR15 since it has no muzzle break.
I'll keep my eye out for an AR with a Limbsaver at Kokohead................... :D
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there's a reason why match ARs and DMRs are free floated
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It's cheap and probably won't blow my face off, so why not? :o 8)
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there's a reason why match ARs and DMRs are free floated
Ren, you are showing your black (gun) bias!!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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It's cheap and probably won't blow my face off, so why not? :o 8)
I am interested to see if it does anything for your AR. I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't do much of anything.
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I'm stating what is true.
The AR/M16 platform has been around for decades and made its way in shooting competitions all over. Free floated barrels, 2 stage triggers were all developed over the years to make it an accurate rifle. In short, the development has been done and mods that worked are what you see today. i.e. handguards that float the barrel, 2 stage triggers. things that didn't work you don't see marketed or on match ARs. I'm not on the level of many competitive shooters but did my share of traveling and chasing leg points. On the competitive circuit the rifles I see are common across the board. A good barrel that is floated, 2 stage triggers and now with optics - scope bases that are optimized for good stock weld i.e. the Geissele "NM" mount. They all have a common theme. They work. You won't see a Limbsaver deresonator on John Holliger's or Frank White's websites. I doubt you will find one in the AMU's shop or any other service's shop.
The same is with loads for the AR/M16. They are proven loads out there and serve as a baseline. I didn't develop these loads but have shot them through many AR barrels from Wilsons, Douglas and my current one - a Shilen. If my groups were bad they always came back to me - the shooter. So I troubleshoot my position and other possible inconsistencies. The last thing I want to do is cover my mistakes with more gadgets.
To be frank, RK's quest to find a good load is hampered by his platform and shooting position as I opined. There are so many variables that he changes every time he posts results. From target background color, scope height, and I'm guessing shooting position.
I try to help out people at the range. Some people listen some people don't. One example is the placement of the spotting scope AFTER setting up your shooting position. A shooter with a spotting scope way over on the other side of the table wonders why his/her groups are all over the place because they break their shooting position to see a shot or one group. I was that person till I listened to other shooters.
I'm just paying it forward.
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To be frank, RK's quest to find a good load is hampered by his platform and shooting position as I opined. There are so many variables that he changes every time he posts results. From target background color, scope height, and I'm guessing shooting position.
I agree. That has more to do with my ADHD style of precision shooting. I'm easily distracted by shiny objects dangled in front of me.
I wouldn't say that my quest was to find a good load but rather find out what works best for my gear that is economical and doesn't get me looks of haughty derision from my wife.
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I agree. That has more to do with my ADHD style of precision shooting. I'm easily distracted by shiny objects dangled in front of me.
I wouldn't say that my quest was to find a good load but rather find out what works best for my gear that is economical and doesn't get me looks of haughty derision from my wife.
Well at least you identified one component of your shooting problem - ADHD.
Now the next step is fixing it.
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We don't agree on scope positioning but we do agree on cheek positioning. I'm trying to get my head more aligned with the stock like you suggested which is why I'm using the risers. I have a very big head (size 7 7/8). I am using the 77s like you suggested. My next rounds will be with the Nosler 62s I bought on sale. I'm also excited about the Nosler 190s because I had excellent results last time.
Generally, I find everyone at the range to be very friendly and helpful and I try to do the same to others. I did snap at one person once but that was because I was having a sugar low and I wish I could apologize. I try to bring a snack with me in case I start to go hangry. If you see me start babbling at the range, tell me to eat a Snickers.
The main reason why I post my results is to share my experiences and to help me figure out what happened like a diary. I'm not a repetition person. I have to try new things to make it interesting.
Look, I'll try to the Limbsaver with a couple rounds, then without. If nothing changes, then I return it to Amazon and get my $6.52. It will be fun. Trust me...
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The risers you put under your scope brings your head farther off the stock. Bring the stock closer in your chest and higher on your shoulder. Shooting accurately IS about consistency. You want a load that is accurate be consistent repetitively. You want to know that the load is accurate shoot consistently to be accurate.
(http://images01.military.com/media/news/equipment/airman-scar-h-1500.jpg)
(http://accurateshooter.net/pix/dennzero01.jpg)
(http://www.beingofservicerifle.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/John-Scandale-300x300.jpg)
(https://gastatic.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Anette-standing-Spokane.jpg)
(http://www.pensacolarifleandpistolclub.com/images/competition/HPR/_DSC0668_HP_BW_full_prone.jpg)
Practice at home. Set up your position. Take selfies. Adjust. Dry fire
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Here's a good video that explains the mechanics of shooting from a bench
He explains the cheek weld at about 2:00
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FhxVS5A3gk
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Good video. Have you seen me shooting at the range?