2aHawaii

General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: Shoboshi on July 27, 2017, 10:19:51 PM

Title: Rifle stolen from HPD vehicle
Post by: Shoboshi on July 27, 2017, 10:19:51 PM
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/35992900/hpd-officers-rifle-other-items-stolen-from-car-in-hawaii-kai
Title: Re: Rifle stolen from HPD vehicle
Post by: akumalio on July 28, 2017, 12:43:52 AM
notice how the media didn't refer to the rifle as an 'assault rifle' but AR-15 Semi-automatic?
Title: Re: Rifle stolen from HPD vehicle
Post by: oldfart on July 28, 2017, 08:01:33 AM
hmmm

KHON, KITV, Star advertiser has nothing about this
Title: Re: Rifle stolen from HPD vehicle
Post by: Bushido on July 28, 2017, 08:38:59 PM
Call me an idiot but why would you leave any of your service weapons in your vehicle overnight? Is that a requirement in case they get called upon at a moments notice? I can see other equiptment but firearms and loaded magazines I would not leave in my vehicle.
Title: Re: Rifle stolen from HPD vehicle
Post by: zippz on July 28, 2017, 09:00:18 PM
It's on KHON2 http://khon2.com/2017/07/28/concerns-raised-after-rifle-stolen-from-police-officers-subsidized-vehicle/.

Shouldn't be illegal for anyone to keep their gun in a car overnight, but it would be poor judgement to do so.  Officer probably left it in there cause they're too lazy to take it out everyday.

Lets not forget to focus on the criminal that stole the stuff.  Gotta lock em all up and keep em locked up.
Title: Re: Rifle stolen from HPD vehicle
Post by: eyeeatingfish on July 28, 2017, 10:16:50 PM
Call me an idiot but why would you leave any of your service weapons in your vehicle overnight? Is that a requirement in case they get called upon at a moments notice? I can see other equiptment but firearms and loaded magazines I would not leave in my vehicle.

Yes and no. It depends whether the gun is locked up inside the vehicle in some sort of box or device as well as how and where the car is parked. Think secure garage vs street parking. Was he even at home or was he out somewhere which he would then want to keep his rifle handy? It might be humbug to take the gun out every day and put it back in everyday.
Title: Re: Rifle stolen from HPD vehicle
Post by: Rocky on July 29, 2017, 08:24:03 AM

Shouldn't be illegal for anyone to keep their gun in a car overnight, but it would be poor judgement to do so.  Officer probably left it in there cause they're too lazy to take it out everyday.
Lets not forget to focus on the criminal that stole the stuff.  Gotta lock em all up and keep em locked up.

Yes and no. It depends whether the gun is locked up inside the vehicle in some sort of box or device as well as how and where the car is parked. Think secure garage vs street parking. Was he even at home or was he out somewhere which he would then want to keep his rifle handy? It might be humbug to take the gun out every day and put it back in everyday.

        Now because LE is immune to the same laws we are regarding keeping, storing and place to possess firearms, there is a criminal on the streets with an AR.
The LE is the criminal here and it's not the first time here in HI.
Did they ever find the last LE's (white Honda) firearm ?"too lazy to take it out everyday." and 'humbug to take the gun out every day and put it back in everyday."  :wtf:

"GET YOUR FREE AR'S HERE, JUST FOLLOW AN LE HOME ! "   :D
Legal possession of a firearm carry's with it responsibility, geez.  :grrr:
Title: Re: Rifle stolen from HPD vehicle
Post by: ren on July 29, 2017, 08:35:02 AM
Policy, law or whatever.
Poor discipline.
When I leave work I have to put away my tools - whether it be a long walk to the tool chest or number of tools I used throughout the day I put them back.
When I was deployed I carried my weapon everywhere even when I was on a FOB. Carried ammo for both sidearm and long gun. When I slept it was right under my bed or on my side where I could get it. I knew where they were. And no one would take them from me without a fight
"Integrity, Respect, Fairness" live those values.
Title: Re: Rifle stolen from HPD vehicle
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on July 29, 2017, 10:26:41 AM
The military requires members to wear a hat (cover) whenever outside and in uniform.  There was always a discussion as to whether members left their cover in the car so they don't forget it each morning, or if they wore it between the car and the front door as required by regulation.

The answers were varied, but the discussion was intended to demonstrate how some people follow the rules, and others decide which rules are important to follow, and when.  It all comes down to, if you're willing to break some rules you don't think are important, then it's only a matter of time and circumstances until you break a rule that does matter.

I always wore mine into the house, and I kept a spare in the glove box.  Hats are pretty cheap, and they do need replacing periodically.  Maybe this Cop decided taking his weapon in and locking it up was too "humbug", but was it really his decision to make?

Title: Re: Rifle stolen from HPD vehicle
Post by: eyeeatingfish on July 29, 2017, 11:02:12 AM
        Now because LE is immune to the same laws we are regarding keeping, storing and place to possess firearms, there is a criminal on the streets with an AR.
The LE is the criminal here and it's not the first time here in HI.
Did they ever find the last LE's (white Honda) firearm ?"too lazy to take it out everyday." and 'humbug to take the gun out every day and put it back in everyday."  :wtf:

"GET YOUR FREE AR'S HERE, JUST FOLLOW AN LE HOME ! "   :D
Legal possession of a firearm carry's with it responsibility, geez.  :grrr:

The LEO did not violate any law.

Yes they recovered the firearm from that last officer whose car was taken IIRC.

There isn't much in the way of facts to determine if the officer was negligent or not.
Title: Re: Rifle stolen from HPD vehicle
Post by: ren on July 29, 2017, 11:53:21 AM
Yes and no. It depends whether the gun is locked up inside the vehicle in some sort of box or device as well as how and where the car is parked. Think secure garage vs street parking. Was he even at home or was he out somewhere which he would then want to keep his rifle handy? It might be humbug to take the gun out every day and put it back in everyday.
Carrying a jackhammer from our company to a jobsite was humbug. Wish I could leave it at the jobsite. I wouldnt because it would get stolen.
While deployed, mounting a 240 on the HMMWV everytime we went out was humbug too. Sometimes theyd get lazy and mount the 249 and that was humbug too.
If it was any one of us citizens we'd be in jail. While you can argue that firearms are a tool for LE so they are exempt from storing it in their vehicles it is the same argumemt for non LE citizens. Firearms are a tool no matter who owns them and the responsibility should be the same.
Title: Re: Rifle stolen from HPD vehicle
Post by: eyeeatingfish on July 29, 2017, 09:28:09 PM
Carrying a jackhammer from our company to a jobsite was humbug. Wish I could leave it at the jobsite. I wouldnt because it would get stolen.
While deployed, mounting a 240 on the HMMWV everytime we went out was humbug too. Sometimes theyd get lazy and mount the 249 and that was humbug too.
If it was any one of us citizens we'd be in jail. While you can argue that firearms are a tool for LE so they are exempt from storing it in their vehicles it is the same argumemt for non LE citizens. Firearms are a tool no matter who owns them and the responsibility should be the same.

Actually no, people wouldn't necessarily be if a firearm was stolen from their vehicle, except maybe in a few circumstances.  People have had firearms stolen from their vehicle before and not arrested for it.

Again, the article doesn't seem to indicate much in terms of where or how the firearm was stolen. What if it was stolen from his locked garage, or on his way home from work when he stopped at the supermarket, or did he leave it in plain view of his car parked on the street? There are a lot of unknown variables before negligence or fault can be determined.
Title: Re: Rifle stolen from HPD vehicle
Post by: aieahound on July 29, 2017, 11:19:15 PM
Per article:

Parked near his Hawaii Kai home. ( not in, which would be the garage )
If any of us parked on the street or stopped at the store, it would be a violation of law for place to keep if I'm not mistaken.
Title: Re: Rifle stolen from HPD vehicle
Post by: dogman on July 30, 2017, 06:07:15 AM
It's on KHON2 http://khon2.com/2017/07/28/concerns-raised-after-rifle-stolen-from-police-officers-subsidized-vehicle/.
While I am still not a fan of Will Espero, other than using the term "assault rifle", he actually sounded sensible in his interview.
Title: Re: Rifle stolen from HPD vehicle
Post by: punaperson on July 30, 2017, 06:51:16 AM
[Double-posted from the kindergarten nanny-state electronic-device-in-crosswalk-criminalization thread]:

Be sure to check out the story of the cop's "very dangerous... assault rifle" (Will Espero) that was stolen out of his "subsidized vehicle" while parked overnight "near his home" at http://khon2.com/2017/07/28/concerns-raised-after-rifle-stolen-from-police-officers-subsidized-vehicle/

The "still" image for the video report includes an officer walking across the crosswalk talking on his phone! Another case of do as you're told, not as I do, as "I'm a cop and exempt from the laws that control (and I enforce against) you peons". You can see the cop walking and talking at the same time at 1:37.

Then the cops use this argument against them having to be subject to the same laws as everyone else (i.e. non-cops):

"Thefts of officer equipment are rare."

So what do these numbers mean if "rare" is a valid criterion for and justification for laws existing or not?

Crime rate per 100k people:
 
General population: 3,817
Police officers: 108
Legal CCW: 18

Pretty sure the only conclusion using the "rare" rationale is that fewer cops should be carrying guns and way more than zero citizens should be carrying in public. Perhaps they only selectively cherry-pick their application of the "rare" rationale? (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/images/smilies/facepalm.gif)
Title: Re: Rifle stolen from HPD vehicle
Post by: macsak on July 30, 2017, 07:50:00 AM
While I am still not a fan of Will Espero, other than using the term "assault rifle", he actually sounded sensible in his interview.

i went back in, forgot my kangol

(https://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/1380382095_maxresdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: Rifle stolen from HPD vehicle
Post by: Rocky on July 30, 2017, 10:40:56 AM

The "still" image for the video report includes an officer walking across the crosswalk talking on his phone! Another case of do as you're told, not as I do, as "I'm a cop and exempt from the laws that control (and I enforce against) you peons". You can see the cop walking and talking at the same time at 1:37.
Nice one  :thumbsup:
"officer walking across the crosswalk talking on his phone" in video at 1:34

EEF:
"The LEO did not violate any law."
           My comment was my opinion in reference to LE not subject to the same laws as us "law abiding citizens" as it would have been a crime for us.
Why the double standard again.
Regardless "Legal possession of a firearm carry's with it responsibility"

Yes they recovered the firearm from that last officer whose car was taken IIRC.
SOURCE ?
Title: Re: Rifle stolen from HPD vehicle
Post by: ren on July 30, 2017, 11:42:11 AM
Actually no, people wouldn't necessarily be if a firearm was stolen from their vehicle, except maybe in a few circumstances.  People have had firearms stolen from their vehicle before and not arrested for it.

Again, the article doesn't seem to indicate much in terms of where or how the firearm was stolen. What if it was stolen from his locked garage, or on his way home from work when he stopped at the supermarket, or did he leave it in plain view of his car parked on the street? There are a lot of unknown variables before negligence or fault can be determined.

There was one incident a few years ago when a person had his shotgun stolen at Ala Moana Shopping center. He was arrested because he left it in his vehicle and went shopping. Cant find the article but it was discussed here. 
Title: Re: Rifle stolen from HPD vehicle
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on July 30, 2017, 11:57:58 AM
There was one incident a few years ago when a person had his shotgun stolen at Ala Moana Shopping center. He was arrested because he left it in his vehicle and went shopping. Cant find the article but it was discussed here.

Similar .....

2007

Quote
Man hides, loses gun, gets arrested

Police arrested a 67-year-old Laie man who reported his shotgun missing yesterday.

Police said the man had gone up Plantation Road into the mountains in Laie on Saturday to do some
target shooting and left his Mossberg shotgun hidden in some bushes.

The man went in to the Kahuku Police Station yesterday and reported his shotgun stolen, police said.

Police opened a first-degree theft case and also arrested him for investigation of a firearms violation.
Title: Re: Rifle stolen from HPD vehicle
Post by: new guy on July 30, 2017, 01:11:09 PM
In my opinion, several of the posts in this thread should have been prefaced with a statement along the lines of, "I am not a (subject matter expert/lawyer/etc), but in my opinion..."

Not trying to single anyone out with this comment, because this happens quite frequently, but when speaking about certain issues (safety-related, legal, etc., in particular), I am concerned that, without such caveats, there exists a real danger of spreading inaccurate information, to the detriment of the community.

I don't think anyone should rely on the advice from an anonymous post on the internet, but when someone makes a conscious effort to post about certain issues (i.e., safety-related, legal, etc), I personally believe that the individual has a duty to post responsibily, or explicitly state that he/she is simply stating an opinion, so as not to spread misleading or inaccurate information.

... again, this is just my opinion.
Title: Re: Rifle stolen from HPD vehicle
Post by: eyeeatingfish on July 30, 2017, 03:33:17 PM
Nice one  :thumbsup:
"officer walking across the crosswalk talking on his phone" in video at 1:34

EEF:
"The LEO did not violate any law."
           My comment was my opinion in reference to LE not subject to the same laws as us "law abiding citizens" as it would have been a crime for us.
Why the double standard again.
Regardless "Legal possession of a firearm carry's with it responsibility"

Yes they recovered the firearm from that last officer whose car was taken IIRC.
SOURCE ?

Sorry but I don't recall the source. If you doubt it was recovered thats fine, it isn't something wroth arguing over.

BTW the cell phone ban while crossing the street is when someone is looking at their phone, not talking on it.

Again, I agree that the officer may have been negligent in the storage of his firearm but since there isn't much detail I think such a claim is premature.
Title: Re: Rifle stolen from HPD vehicle
Post by: London808 on July 30, 2017, 11:10:57 PM
In my opinion, several of the posts in this thread should have been prefaced with a statement along the lines of, "I am not a (subject matter expert/lawyer/etc), but in my opinion..."

Not trying to single anyone out with this comment, because this happens quite frequently, but when speaking about certain issues (safety-related, legal, etc., in particular), I am concerned that, without such caveats, there exists a real danger of spreading inaccurate information, to the detriment of the community.

I don't think anyone should rely on the advice from an anonymous post on the internet, but when someone makes a conscious effort to post about certain issues (i.e., safety-related, legal, etc), I personally believe that the individual has a duty to post responsibily, or explicitly state that he/she is simply stating an opinion, so as not to spread misleading or inaccurate information.

... again, this is just my opinion.


I would disagree, it's the readers responsobilty to apply due dillegemce when take it advice from the internet,
Title: Re: Rifle stolen from HPD vehicle
Post by: punaperson on July 31, 2017, 06:50:52 AM
In my opinion, several of the posts in this thread should have been prefaced with a statement along the lines of, "I am not a (subject matter expert/lawyer/etc), but in my opinion..."

Not trying to single anyone out with this comment, because this happens quite frequently, but when speaking about certain issues (safety-related, legal, etc., in particular), I am concerned that, without such caveats, there exists a real danger of spreading inaccurate information, to the detriment of the community.

I don't think anyone should rely on the advice from an anonymous post on the internet, but when someone makes a conscious effort to post about certain issues (i.e., safety-related, legal, etc), I personally believe that the individual has a duty to post responsibily, or explicitly state that he/she is simply stating an opinion, so as not to spread misleading or inaccurate information.

... again, this is just my opinion.
I would disagree, it's the readers responsobilty to apply due dillegemce when take it advice from the internet,
I am not a lawyer, nor an expert in the field, but... Are you a lawyer? Or an expert in the field? Or is that just your personal opinion, belief, thought, assessment, assumption, attitude, conclusion, feeling, idea, impression, judgment, notion, point of view, sentiment, speculation, theory, view, conception, conjecture, estimation, guess, hypothesis, inclination, inference, persuasion, postulate, presumption, presupposition, supposition, surmise, suspicion, take, or thesis?



 :rofl:
Title: Re: Rifle stolen from HPD vehicle
Post by: Surf on July 31, 2017, 07:28:20 AM
Everyone on the internet is an expert, at everything.  This site is no different.  Actually I take that back as a matter of fact 2AH has way more than its fair share and they have no qualms with pontificating. 

2AH should be different as we are not necessarily your run of the mill internet spot.  We share many commonalities that are unique to a certain subset of society.  We all live in Hawaii, enjoy shooting, supposedly want to further the positive outlook on firearms, firearm owners and the Second Ammendment, many know each other, yet if we look at this thread the amount of divisiveness is quite sad. 

Anyone who is a pretty reasonable person that is a firearm enthusiast would quickly disregard this website / forum in short order with just a small bit of reading here.  It happens with regularity.  Anyone wonder why new members don't stick around?  Because the playground bullies like to control their pulpit.  Pretty soon all 3 or 4 members will have their very own chat group to pat each other on the butts.  And I say chat group, because the amount of membership would not even qualify as a forum.

And yes, someone might actually be an attorney behind a screen name and not just playing one on the internet.
Title: Re: Rifle stolen from HPD vehicle
Post by: punaperson on July 31, 2017, 07:53:53 AM
Everyone on the internet is an expert, at everything.  This site is no different.  Actually I take that back as a matter of fact 2AH has way more than its fair share and they have no qualms with pontificating. 

2AH should be different as we are not necessarily your run of the mill internet spot.  We share many commonalities that are unique to a certain subset of society.  We all live in Hawaii, enjoy shooting, supposedly want to further the positive outlook on firearms, firearm owners and the Second Ammendment, many know each other, yet if we look at this thread the amount of divisiveness is quite sad. 

Anyone who is a pretty reasonable person that is a firearm enthusiast would quickly disregard this website / forum in short order with just a small bit of reading here.  It happens with regularity.  Anyone wonder why new members don't stick around?  Because the playground bullies like to control their pulpit.  Pretty soon all 3 or 4 members will have their very own chat group to pat each other on the butts.  And I say chat group, because the amount of membership would not even qualify as a forum.

And yes, someone might actually be an attorney behind a screen name and not just playing one on the internet.
I suppose if you cared more than enough to just post your "accusations" and "complaints" you could contact the moderators/owners of the site (perhaps you already have) and work with and convince them to institute "rules" (aka "censorship") that would result in the site content being more to your liking and boosting the site membership and traffic by being whatever your version of a "politically correct" site would be, and without any nasty "divisiveness". I'm sure if everyone agreed and were "like-minded" on all the poltical and legal issues the "environment" would be much more "friendly" and "agreeable", you know, just like, say, the Hawaii state legislature where those attitudes and conditions prevail and we see so much being done to restore our rights. Maybe you could also convince them while you are at it to somehow make it possible for people not to be forced to read the threads and comments that they find "offensive" or "divisive" or "bullying" or whatever it is you object to that readers are now being forced to read. I'd like to hear your suggestions for the "rules" that would eliminate or minimize the appearance of (what you deem to be) "objectionable" material. Also, have you ever read the calguns.net politically- and legally-oriented threads/forums? :shaka:
Title: Re: Rifle stolen from HPD vehicle
Post by: macsak on July 31, 2017, 08:02:27 AM
I suppose if you cared more than enough to just post your "accusations" and "complaints" you could contact the moderators/owners of the site (perhaps you already have) and work with and convince them to institute "rules" (aka "censorship") that would result in the site content being more to your liking and boosting the site membership and traffic by being whatever your version of a "politically correct" site would be, and without any nasty "divisiveness". I'm sure if everyone agreed and were "like-minded" on all the poltical and legal issues the "environment" would be much more "friendly" and "agreeable", you know, just like, say, the Hawaii state legislature where those attitudes and conditions prevail and we see so much being done to restore our rights. Maybe you could also convince them while you are at it to somehow make it possible for people not to be forced to read the threads and comments that they find "offensive" or "divisive" or "bullying" or whatever it is you object to that readers are now being forced to read. I'd like to hear your suggestions for the "rules" that would eliminate or minimize the appearance of (what you deem to be) "objectionable" material. Also, have you ever read the calguns.net politically- and legally-oriented threads/forums? :shaka:

you just crossed the line, PP
surf was an internet SME since al gore invented the internet, he's entitiled to his opinion
Title: Re: Rifle stolen from HPD vehicle
Post by: punaperson on July 31, 2017, 08:37:49 AM
you just crossed the line, PP
surf was an internet SME since al gore invented the internet, he's entitiled to his opinion
Hey mac. I don't have any problem at all with him/her expressing their opinions, nor anyone else's (of course I may, possibly vehemently, disagree with them), even if they are not lawyers or experts and even if they don't label their writing as "opinion" or whatever (I'm pretty sure that nothing I read anywhere was handed down from Odin, or Krishna, or Jehovah, or any other "god", but from a "mere" fallible human). In fact I seriously want to know what surf would have the rules be in order to create the forum he wants, or believes would be "better" or have more members, etc., and to eliminate what he finds objectionable (divisiveness", "bullying", etc.). Seriously. I hope (I'm "asking", without any intent to "bully") he/she gives us a detailed list of rules that would accomplish that goal. I'm truly curious. And if I'm one of those "divisive" or disagreeable or deplorable or whatever people who ends up being banned, so be it. I'm really curious what the "legal and activism" and "political" threads would read like were the "new rules" instituted.  :shaka:
Title: Re: Rifle stolen from HPD vehicle
Post by: ren on July 31, 2017, 09:00:21 AM
back to the topic.
Officer left his rifle in the car - got stolen - shame on him
whoever stole it shall be punished to the full extent of the law. no HOPE. no work furlough
Title: Re: Rifle stolen from HPD vehicle
Post by: Rocky on July 31, 2017, 09:23:17 AM
back to the topic.
Officer left his rifle in the car - got stolen - shame on him
whoever stole it shall be punished to the full extent of the law. no HOPE. no work furlough
Police say the firearm in the car has also been recovered.

25-year-old Jonaven Mason of Makakilo was arrested, but has not been charged.
need more gun laws ?  ::)
Title: Re: Rifle stolen from HPD vehicle
Post by: changemyoil66 on July 31, 2017, 09:37:13 AM
Police say the firearm in the car has also been recovered.

25-year-old Jonaven Mason of Makakilo was arrested, but has not been charged.
need more gun laws ?  ::)

I guess he forgot to scratch of that 1 serial number that's on the rifle.

I would like to know how the rifle was stored.  As in was it just in a case in the trunk, or in a tool box type drawer that's attached to the vehicle so the guy had to pry it open.  Or LAPD style, locked in between the driver and passenger seat pointing up.
Title: Re: Rifle stolen from HPD vehicle
Post by: ren on July 31, 2017, 09:55:25 AM
Police say the firearm in the car has also been recovered.

25-year-old Jonaven Mason of Makakilo was arrested, but has not been charged.
need more gun laws ?  ::)
MOAR laws! Of course. How about a specific law that makes it illegal to steal an AR15 from an officers car.
Title: Re: Rifle stolen from HPD vehicle
Post by: dustoff003 on July 31, 2017, 01:21:04 PM
 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Rifle stolen from HPD vehicle
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on July 31, 2017, 01:31:07 PM
MOAR laws! Of course. How about a specific law that makes it illegal to steal an AR15 from an officers car.

He saw the weapon wasn't properly secured (evidenced by the fact he was able to take possession of it).  He had no intention of stealing the rifle.  He was merely securing it so some irresponsible youth didn't get their hands on it.   :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

He was just about to leave the house to turn it into the police department when the officers showed up at his front door, saving him from having to drive himself to the station.   :rofl:
Title: Re: Rifle stolen from HPD vehicle
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 01, 2017, 09:20:11 AM
He saw the weapon wasn't properly secured (evidenced by the fact he was able to take possession of it).  He had no intention of stealing the rifle.  He was merely securing it so some irresponsible youth didn't get their hands on it.   :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

He was just about to leave the house to turn it into the police department when the officers showed up at his front door, saving him from having to drive himself to the station.   :rofl:

Or he found it on the ground outside of his house.  Because it's still theft if he took it even though to property secure it.
Title: Re: Rifle stolen from HPD vehicle
Post by: punaperson on August 01, 2017, 09:52:02 AM
Or he found it on the ground outside of his house. 
And, no doubt, someone stole his fingerprints and put them on the car the gun was stolen from.
Title: Re: Rifle stolen from HPD vehicle
Post by: All_rice on August 01, 2017, 10:46:20 PM
You guys are forgetting what a nice guy he his, would never hurt anyone.