2aHawaii

Tools and Uses => Reloading => Topic started by: Rhed on August 13, 2017, 11:54:25 PM

Title: Do different primers make difference?
Post by: Rhed on August 13, 2017, 11:54:25 PM
I went today. Seems like the gun like CFE 223 and TAC. Both at 1 or sub. But been wondering if a different primer make difference. Been using cci 41. Just curious. Thinking of trying out Federal 205m. Btw, one of my loads BLC 2 was shooting around 1.5 high. But the grouping was tight too. What does that mean when it shoots high like that?
Title: Re: Do different primers make difference?
Post by: rklapp on August 14, 2017, 12:08:57 AM
https://youtu.be/xF9hiD1nrfc

Different pressures create different elevation. The grouping is more important.
Title: Re: Do different primers make difference?
Post by: Rhed on August 14, 2017, 12:41:23 AM
Thanks RK.. Very informative there. Guess I'll stick to what I have which is doing fine. The proper component, small rifle primer for small rifle. The grouping with CFE and TAC been very consistant out to 100 for my rifle. I might just bump it up .2 more for each and go from there. I'll save the other powders for the next rifle I still have yet to reload for and future caliber I have in mind. I picked up Benchmark too. Gonna do some reloads for that too this weekend Sat. or Sun. This has been a fun experiment and experience. Keeps my mind of Monday to Friday stress at work. Again, I'm still learning and its great. And appreciate all you guys help. I kinda shy around there at the range. But hope to meet some of you guys. The RO's has been friendly all the time too.
Title: Re: Do different primers make difference?
Post by: Inspector on August 14, 2017, 06:27:28 AM
Keeps my mind of Monday to Friday stress at work.
I hear ya. PL has been keeping me awake at nights for over 2 years. This is the most stressful job I have ever had.  :shake: :shake: :shake:  After this is over I am going back to being an Inspector again.  ;D ;D ;D

I don't know how you keep your sanity doing what you do.  :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:  Anyway, I'm glad to hear that reloading/shooting helps maintain your sanity at work.  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Do different primers make difference?
Post by: Rhed on August 14, 2017, 07:10:02 AM
I hear ya. PL has been keeping me awake at nights for over 2 years. This is the most stressful job I have ever had.  :shake: :shake: :shake:  After this is over I am going back to being an Inspector again.  ;D ;D ;D

I don't know how you keep your sanity doing what you do.  :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:  Anyway, I'm glad to hear that reloading/shooting helps maintain your sanity at work.  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Yea Dave. Though I think PL is more crazy  :rofl:  :crazy:   then where I'm at now. Props to you my brotha for still being there and putting with that job.. :worship:. Though I must say this, can't beat the scenery there at PL. You know what I mean?  ;D
Title: Re: Do different primers make difference?
Post by: Inspector on August 14, 2017, 10:46:00 AM
...can't beat the scenery there at PL. You know what I mean?  ;D
::) ::) ::)  I don't know what you mean, Rod?  :P :P :P   :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Title: Re: Do different primers make difference?
Post by: Bushido on August 14, 2017, 09:11:30 PM
I went today. Seems like the gun like CFE 223 and TAC. Both at 1 or sub. But been wondering if a different primer make difference. Been using cci 41. Just curious. Thinking of trying out Federal 205m. Btw, one of my loads BLC 2 was shooting around 1.5 high. But the grouping was tight too. What does that mean when it shoots high like that?

Depending on what you are trying to achieve, yes primers do make a difference. If accuracy is one of your goals, I'll say that shrinking a group from 2" to 1" is easy. From 1" to a 1/2" a little more work. From 1/2" to 1/4' takes quite a bit of attention to detail and components. One of which is the primer.

It seems you know Inspector pretty well. He can help you a ton with the accuracy part.  :shaka: :shaka: :shaka:
Title: Re: Do different primers make difference?
Post by: Bushido on August 14, 2017, 09:26:43 PM
This chart is pretty helpful. If you hand prime, you will notice some primers seat with different pressures. Although the diameters are close, you can feel the difference. The thickness of the cup anad hardness is very noticable.

http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/primers-and-pressure-analysis/
Title: Re: Do different primers make difference?
Post by: Heavies on August 15, 2017, 10:12:25 AM
Different primers can cut down on ES/SD numbers.  Variation on velocity can effect performance at longer range.

One can obtain great groups at 100 yards and in, but as distance increases, velocity spreads can throw elevation of shots out of intended impact area.
Title: Re: Do different primers make difference?
Post by: Heavies on August 15, 2017, 10:17:56 AM
Many distance shooters like primers like PMC or Wolf.  These seem to be "soft" primers.  Not soft in terms of the metal cup, but soft in the term of ignition force. This seems to reduce variations in velocity spreads.

It has been said the the "magnum" versions of these foreign primers have the same amount of priming compound, but just have a harder more durable cup material.  Many long-range shooters like those because they reduce ES/SD, yet are hard enough to withstand top loads needed to reach out to distance.
Title: Re: Do different primers make difference?
Post by: Heavies on August 15, 2017, 10:23:37 AM
Ball powders, like TAC, are know to be more difficult to ignite, so more robust primer compound might do better performance wise, such as CCI.  Most times ball powder is not 'go to' for target/long-range anyway.  One using these types of powders are generally looking for ease of loading/reliability/volume.
Title: Re: Do different primers make difference?
Post by: Rhed on August 15, 2017, 10:29:21 AM
Thanks guys for the help. I've jus been using CCI 41 for all my reloads with different powders. Never had a problem. And so far, I've been getting tight groups with the slow burning powders. As said by Inspector that I would want slower burning powders for the heavy 77 grainers. And it does show it. Though, wondering if there's different primers to work better with fast burning and/or slow burning type of powders. I don't mind experimenting. Like to take my time with this things. It's jus interesting and at the same time fun.  And I like to find  good recipes in the end. Again appreciate all the help and info. I still have lots to learn. Btw, I made couple of reloads with different seating depths. More deeper in. Closer to specs 2.27 now from 2.305. Don't know how much it will affect things.
Title: Re: Do different primers make difference?
Post by: rklapp on August 15, 2017, 10:31:23 AM
Want some Fed AR Match 205 primers to play with?
Title: Re: Do different primers make difference?
Post by: Rhed on August 15, 2017, 02:22:30 PM
Want some Fed AR Match 205 primers to play with?

Hey rk.. thanks for the offer. I think those the ones I was looking at. Is that the same as Fed 205m? Btw, while shooting my reloads out to 100 yards, I have the rifle locked down with a CTK gun vise now. It holds it dead steady. I'm doing it that way right now jus to eliminate the human error (me). After I find a good recipe, I'll put the rifle back on the bipod.
Title: Re: Do different primers make difference?
Post by: ren on August 15, 2017, 02:46:59 PM
Thanks guys for the help. I've jus been using CCI 41 for all my reloads with different powders. Never had a problem. And so far, I've been getting tight groups with the slow burning powders. As said by Inspector that I would want slower burning powders for the heavy 77 grainers. And it does show it. Though, wondering if there's different primers to work better with fast burning and/or slow burning type of powders. I don't mind experimenting. Like to take my time with this things. It's jus interesting and at the same time fun.  And I like to find  good recipes in the end. Again appreciate all the help and info. I still have lots to learn. Btw, I made couple of reloads with different seating depths. More deeper in. Closer to specs 2.27 now from 2.305. Don't know how much it will affect things.

Rem 7.5 with RL15 or Varget
Title: Re: Do different primers make difference?
Post by: rklapp on August 15, 2017, 05:16:48 PM
Hey rk.. thanks for the offer. I think those the ones I was looking at. Is that the same as Fed 205m? Btw, while shooting my reloads out to 100 yards, I have the rifle locked down with a CTK gun vise now. It holds it dead steady. I'm doing it that way right now jus to eliminate the human error (me). After I find a good recipe, I'll put the rifle back on the bipod.
I suspect the 205m are causing slam fires in my AR lower but it could also be my light trigger or a combination of the two. I'm gonna try CCI 400 next. SEC is the cheapest place to buy primers. I'll be heading to the range on Thursday.
Title: Re: Do different primers make difference?
Post by: Rhed on August 15, 2017, 06:33:58 PM
Rem 7.5 with RL15 or Varget
I think I'm gonna hand load the Varget and through the single stage next time around when I have some time. Either that, maybe do the polish powder die like you did. How did you polish? With a dremel? Anyways, my reloads with Varget was all over the place this past Sunday. Grouping and velocity shows it too. I think it's not metering right on the progressive. Though I don't want to give up on that powder. And I'd like to try RL15 down the road. No can find RL15. SEC and YG all out.
Title: Re: Do different primers make difference?
Post by: ren on August 15, 2017, 06:41:49 PM
https://www.dillonprecision.com/powder-measure_350_10_274.htm (https://www.dillonprecision.com/powder-measure_350_10_274.htm)

Polished the measurer with a Dremel.
Title: Re: Do different primers make difference?
Post by: Rhed on August 15, 2017, 06:44:02 PM
I suspect the 205m are causing slam fires in my AR lower but it could also be my light trigger or a combination of the two. I'm gonna try CCI 400 next. SEC is the cheapest place to buy primers. I'll be heading to the range on Thursday.
When I was at the range a few weeks ago, RO's jus hit the buzzer . And I jus put a fresh mag in and engage it. So I had to clear the chamber, mag, and of course the round ejected. When I went back, I picked up the round in my brass net and noticed that it had a very slight punch on the primer. I still put it back in the mag and it still fired ok.  I'm assuming it was from the pin. But it didn't go off or no slam fire. Though I don't know it was due to the primer design. Cause CCI 41 was known to have thicker cups? But, I never experienced a slam fire yet.
Title: Re: Do different primers make difference?
Post by: Rhed on August 15, 2017, 06:45:20 PM
https://www.dillonprecision.com/powder-measure_350_10_274.htm (https://www.dillonprecision.com/powder-measure_350_10_274.htm)

Polished the measurer with a Dremel.
Oh nice! Thanks.. gonna try that this weekend..  :shaka:
Title: Re: Do different primers make difference?
Post by: ren on August 15, 2017, 06:52:18 PM
When I was at the range a few weeks ago, RO's jus hit the buzzer . And I jus put a fresh mag in and engage it. So I had to clear the chamber, mag, and of course the round ejected. When I went back, I picked up the round in my brass net and noticed that it had a very slight punch on the primer. I still put it back in the mag and it still fired ok.  I'm assuming it was from the pin. But it didn't go off or no slam fire. Though I don't know it was due to the primer design. Cause CCI 41 was known to have thicker cups? But, I never experienced a slam fire yet.

normal
Title: Re: Do different primers make difference?
Post by: Heavies on August 15, 2017, 07:56:42 PM
When I was at the range a few weeks ago, RO's jus hit the buzzer . And I jus put a fresh mag in and engage it. So I had to clear the chamber, mag, and of course the round ejected. When I went back, I picked up the round in my brass net and noticed that it had a very slight punch on the primer. I still put it back in the mag and it still fired ok.  I'm assuming it was from the pin. But it didn't go off or no slam fire. Though I don't know it was due to the primer design. Cause CCI 41 was known to have thicker cups? But, I never experienced a slam fire yet.
These primers are specifically designed for military type floating firing pin rifles. They are less sensitive and have harder cups.  That dent is caused from the inertia of the firing pin coming forward when the bolt slams home.  It's normal operation.  Federal primers are supposedly more sensitive primers. Most don't like to use federal primers in these types of firearms because of this.  Ive never tried, I figured why chance it.  I too use either 41s or 450s for my ARs, never had a slamfire....  yet, hopefully never.
Title: Re: Do different primers make difference?
Post by: ren on August 17, 2017, 01:18:15 PM
Here' sa  look at primer dimensions
http://www.radomski.us/njhp/cart_tech.htm (http://www.radomski.us/njhp/cart_tech.htm)
Title: Re: Do different primers make difference?
Post by: Rhed on August 19, 2017, 07:07:29 PM
Here' sa  look at primer dimensions
http://www.radomski.us/njhp/cart_tech.htm (http://www.radomski.us/njhp/cart_tech.htm)

Nice.. thanks. Lots of other info too on there.
Title: Re: Do different primers make difference?
Post by: rklapp on August 19, 2017, 08:54:06 PM
I just wiped out the supply of CCI 450 at SEC. They didn't have much left. Lots of others in supply.

Sometimes I feel like I'm visiting a crack den for my much needed supplies. It's like that sweat taste of black tar heroin in the veins. Not that I would know...
Title: Re: Do different primers make difference?
Post by: ren on August 19, 2017, 10:29:48 PM
I just wiped out the supply of CCI 450 at SEC. They didn't have much left. Lots of others in supply.

Sometimes I feel like I'm visiting a crack den for my much needed supplies. It's like that sweat taste of black tar heroin in the veins. Not that I would know...

Damn....
Title: Re: Do different primers make difference?
Post by: Rhed on August 20, 2017, 01:48:44 PM
I just wiped out the supply of CCI 450 at SEC. They didn't have much left. Lots of others in supply.

Sometimes I feel like I'm visiting a crack den for my much needed supplies. It's like that sweat taste of black tar heroin in the veins. Not that I would know...

addict..  :shake:
Oh, btw, do you know if they had RL-15 in stock?
Title: Re: Do different primers make difference?
Post by: rklapp on August 20, 2017, 04:46:36 PM
Sure do! About $33. I was able to pick up H4198 for my boolits but it was $37.