2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: zippz on September 03, 2017, 01:21:27 AM
-
I'm doing a project for the Hawaii Rifle Association (HRA), trying to figure out how to get membership up. I compare it to the NRA who is pretty effective due to the size of it's membership (about 5 mil) and many of them are voters who can change elections. I calculated that about 1.6% of the US population belongs to the NRA. I calculated that only 0.06% of Hawaii's population belongs to the HRA which is 1/26th that of the NRA.
I'd like to hear why did you join or not join HRA. What you like/dislike about it.
As for me...I joined the HRA a long time ago when I first got into shooting, then I didn't renew until a couple years ago. Looking back, I guess I didn't know what HRA was, didn't use their services, and everything was out of sight/out of mind for me so I let other people do the work.
After being an active participant lately here's the things that I like:
1. There's a core group that have experience, friendly, and are willing to help.
2. Some of them put in a lot of volunteer hours.
3. They take care of their volunteers.
4. You can gain experience coaching, instructing, and planning events.
5. Help the community with events like Shooting Sports Fair, Hunting Fishing Day, Fun Shoots, Friends of the NRA, Training, boy scouts, etc.
6. Provides support to hunters and conservation efforts
7. Willing to listen if you get to know them and you have a good plan.
8. Works with the NRA on legislation and elections
What I don't like:
1. Keeping the status quo and not improving.
2. Low membership.
3. Need to rotate leaders out to train and develop new leaders.
4. Need new ideas
5. Need to communicate with non-HRA members better.
6. Need to network and coordinate with other clubs, businesses, military, etc.
-
Im on the big island. It seems the calendar of events is for Oahu. Anything planned for out here? I'd join if there is an active group working on projects here like getting a public range set up.
-
I am a member but after a long hiatus. There are some personalities that don't promote an inclusive membership and are there to promote an agenda. Nothing new to Hawaii same politics different arena.
-
I'm doing a project for the Hawaii Rifle Association (HRA), trying to figure out how to get membership up. I compare it to the NRA who is pretty effective due to the size of it's membership (about 5 mil) and many of them are voters who can change elections. I calculated that about 1.6% of the US population belongs to the NRA. I calculated that only 0.06% of Hawaii's population belongs to the HRA which is 1/26th that of the NRA.
I'd like to hear why did you join or not join HRA. What you like/dislike about it.
As for me...I joined the HRA a long time ago when I first got into shooting, then I didn't renew until a couple years ago. Looking back, I guess I didn't know what HRA was, didn't use their services, and everything was out of sight/out of mind for me so I let other people do the work.
After being an active participant lately here's the things that I like:
1. There's a core group that have experience, friendly, and are willing to help.
2. Some of them put in a lot of volunteer hours.
3. They take care of their volunteers.
4. You can gain experience coaching, instructing, and planning events.
5. Help the community with events like Shooting Sports Fair, Hunting Fishing Day, Fun Shoots, Friends of the NRA, Training, boy scouts, etc.
6. Provides support to hunters and conservation efforts
7. Willing to listen if you get to know them and you have a good plan.
8. Works with the NRA on legislation and elections
What I don't like:
1. Keeping the status quo and not improving.
2. Low membership.
3. Need to rotate leaders out to train and develop new leaders.
4. Need new ideas
5. Need to communicate with non-HRA members better.
6. Need to network and coordinate with other clubs, businesses, military, etc.
For many many years I was a member. I am no longer. One of the main reasons was/is Max Cooper.
-
It's an old boys club, if your in your In, if your not your not
Their website and newsletter is dated and when they do give information it's usually months old and/or to last minute to takthe action.
The main thing that stopped me from reknewing my membership was the fact that they dident move a muscle to stop rapback and wouldn't eveb alnollegr if they were working on something.
I have no problem volunteering as I can see where my time and effort is directly going, but as for directly buying membership, not happening.
-
Error
-
The main thing that stopped me from reknewing my membership was the fact that they dident move a muscle to stop rapback and wouldn't eveb alnollegr if they were working on something.
What? Don't you remember the famous Harvey Gerwig interview from July 6, 2016? He claimed they "have six lawyers working on it". Okay. It's now 15 months later and those lawyers must have racked up a LOT of hours, and considerable expense (unless they're all working pro bono), and we haven't heard a peep... not any peep at all from HRA about how they have determined to fight Rapback. Must be some really seriously secret stuff. I hope they prove me wrong, but how long would it take to decide on a strategy and file a lawsuit?
http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/ArticlesMain/tabid/56/ID/17828/Rifle-Association-Six-Lawyers-Working-on-Hawaii-lsquoRap-Backrsquo-Lawsuit.aspx
-
Im new to the culture ( almost 1 year). But to me, it seems like its not my type of shooting or legal activities.
1) i like the HDF classes and shoots, hence why i go and bought a membership. Theyre consistan (last saturday of the month). You can bring your stuff to shoot (guns & ammo).
2) does HRA do this type of shooting? Sports fair, you have to pay to rent. So more for non-owners, not current gun owners.
3) seems like they dropped the ball on the rapback. Someone in HRA should have been aware of the proposal b4 it was to late. London raised funds alone, if 1 man can do this, why cant an organization?
4) were they around when hawaii made registration manditory? If they were, what did they do to help prevent this and other 2a infrinents (mag limits, ccw denials, barrel length, etc...)
5) i know the above cost money, but i find it hard to believe that there isnt at least 1 attorney out there that could volunteer to help or trade services (if legal, firearm training for friends and family of atty, gun smithing, etc...). Or did HRA even contact the NRA for help because what happens in 1 state, others may follow.
6) i wrote to my rep and he proposed a ccw bill HB36. Did HRA do anything like this?
Again I am new so it may be my lack of intel for some of the above or i might be totally wrong too.
I would like to learn more, zipps please keep us aware of HRA events. Especially events where we can shoot our own guns and ammo.
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
-
Membership is really inexpensive if I recall. I paid my dues years ago but kind of forget about the annual dues with no reminders. If they sent me an email with a bill and where to send it...I would renew. Otherwise, I forget with everything else competing for attention. So, I suppose I'm not a member anymore. But, sending out a reminder to pay up would probably provide a quick boost.
-
Looking back, I guess I didn't know what HRA was, didn't use their services, and everything was out of sight/out of mind for me so I let other people do the work..
That pretty much sums it up for me. I know the HRA exist, know nothing about what they do. If there was info as to what they are about and what they are doing, I may support them.
-
Im on the big island. It seems the calendar of events is for Oahu. Anything planned for out here? I'd join if there is an active group working on projects here like getting a public range set up.
I don't know if there are active programs on the other islands, there should be if not. There is the skeet & trap range in Hilo where you could setup shooting sports fair with archery and other activities for the community.
HRA working with www.ontargethawaii.org to build the PU`UANAHULU range, but that fell through. I'm sure they'll be active on helping with the Hilo range. Remember that it's not only about just paying member dues, it's about taking an active part in helping out.
-
I am a member but after a long hiatus. There are some personalities that don't promote an inclusive membership and are there to promote an agenda. Nothing new to Hawaii same politics different arena.
I noticed a lot of the gun clubs are the same way, they don't interact with each other. I also see the differences everyone has (not unlike this forum) and HRA seems to have a difficult time talking to people outside of the organization.
-
For many many years I was a member. I am no longer. One of the main reasons was/is Max Cooper.
What's the story on him? I don't really know who he is except he does some law stuff and wrote the HRA gun laws synopsis.
-
It's an old boys club, if your in your In, if your not your not
I saw that with a lot of gun clubs when I looked at them from the outside not knowing anything. But when I started talking an active approach by talking to them, participating, and volunteering I found that it's different. Most of them are friendly and helpful. It takes a while to build that trust I guess. You should come out to the HRA/LIFE shoots and talk to Harvey there. A suggestion I'm going to make to HRA is to open communications by having a periodic lunch session where people can sit down and talk to the HRA to voice there concerns and get updates over lunch
Their website and newsletter is dated and when they do give information it's usually months old and/or to last minute to takthe action.
The main thing that stopped me from reknewing my membership was the fact that they dident move a muscle to stop rapback and wouldn't eveb alnollegr if they were working on something.
I have no problem volunteering as I can see where my time and effort is directly going, but as for directly buying membership, not happening.
I find the website could be better. I envision a place where anyone can find information about events, directories, Q&A's, and other stuff. I plan to put my event calendar and directory on their site.
Seems like the HRA is a very weak organization, not just against RAPBACK but other legislation. That's why I'd like to get HRA membership up from 1,000 to 5,000, 10,000 is a remote possibility with a lot of work.
I'm guessing Harvey is just getting stretched thin as he seems to take everything on from all of the events, hunting stuff, range stuff, and legislation. HRA should be divided up like how the NRA is. Training, hunting, events, politics, etc.
-
What? Don't you remember the famous Harvey Gerwig interview from July 6, 2016? He claimed they "have six lawyers working on it". Okay. It's now 15 months later and those lawyers must have racked up a LOT of hours, and considerable expense (unless they're all working pro bono), and we haven't heard a peep... not any peep at all from HRA about how they have determined to fight Rapback. Must be some really seriously secret stuff. I hope they prove me wrong, but how long would it take to decide on a strategy and file a lawsuit?
http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/ArticlesMain/tabid/56/ID/17828/Rifle-Association-Six-Lawyers-Working-on-Hawaii-lsquoRap-Backrsquo-Lawsuit.aspx
I haven't heard anything about it from them either, I think it's a dead issue with HRA. All of the lawyers say we'd lose the case because of how the law and tracking is done. It would definitely go up to the SCOTUS where the cost would be very high and case uncertain at best. To be fair all of the gun organizations refused to take the case...SAF, NRA, GOA, etc for the same reasons. I feel HRA should have communicated that out to the community.
-
Membership is really inexpensive if I recall. I paid my dues years ago but kind of forget about the annual dues with no reminders. If they sent me an email with a bill and where to send it...I would renew. Otherwise, I forget with everything else competing for attention. So, I suppose I'm not a member anymore. But, sending out a reminder to pay up would probably provide a quick boost.
They sent me an email to renew.
They could increase membership if they made it autorenew with a notice sent a couple weeks ahead. I hate having to manually renew stuff. I'll probably get their lifetime membership one day after I save up enough. The lifetime SAF and NRA membership spares me from renewals and spam mail.
-
I haven't heard anything about it from them either, I think it's a dead issue with HRA. All of the lawyers say we'd lose the case because of how the law and tracking is done. It would definitely go up to the SCOTUS where the cost would be very high and case uncertain at best. To be fair all of the gun organizations refused to take the case...SAF, NRA, GOA, etc for the same reasons. I feel HRA should have communicated that out to the community.
Yeah, well that "six lawyers working on it" was total bluster and certainly implied that HRA was going to actually DO SOMETHING about an obvious violation of the United States Constitution (I don't recall seeing anything in there about a tax/fee/fine being required to be paid in order to be in a government database in order to exercise any pre-existing right listed in the "Bill of Rights"). Then they didn't do anything, anything at all. How would they have blustered that fact in the media? (Cue Roseanne Roseannadanna video: "Oh... never mind!"). To their members? Or anywhere else?
zippz, I appreciate your efforts, as I suspect from my years as an "activist" in another field, it is mostly a totally thankless endeavor met almost universally by indifferent or apathetic people who simply have no interest in the issue. If you find one out of a thousand people who are willing to donate time and/or money to the cause, you're lucky (and NOT "lucky we live Hawaii" for Second Amendment issues). Best wishes for success in your endeavors. Give 'em hell. :shaka:
-
Im on the big island. It seems the calendar of events is for Oahu. Anything planned for out here? I'd join if there is an active group working on projects here like getting a public range set up.
My impression as well, very Oahu-centric.
Makes sense to them no doubt, they have 80+% of the population.
-
My impression as well, very Oahu-centric.
Makes sense to them no doubt, they have 80+% of the population.
Unfortunately so. Appears the neighbor island directors need to step it up.
-
Unfortunately so. Appears the neighbor island directors need to step it up.
Would it be unfair or mean or trollish or something else bad of me to ask, "Step WHAT up?"? Maybe there's been something going on here in Puna all along and I just didn't/don't know about it.
-
Honestly I don't know enough about the organization one way or another. I was a member but it's probably expired by now with no reminder. Same with HDF.
Just so happens right now I'm working with an unrelated group, but they have similar issues even though they are a brand new startup versus an established brand.
One of the first mistakes people make in terms of advocacy is mistaking Outreach as a secondary concern. You can do the most important work in he world but if nobody knows about it then your enemies have a much easier time burying you. For advocacy groups Outreach is job number one but time and again I see it being treated like an afterthought. If you have a great product but your customer service sucks then it creates a very tight bottleneck that restricts your growth potential. That doesn't mean go out and make a bunch of empty promises (see below), but keeping people engaged in the process is essential if you want lasting results.
The second is that Public Relations campaigns should be handled by professionals, or at least by people who respect how important they are and will carefully consider how each decision will either bring them closer to their goal or move them farther away from it. The whole "six lawyer team" Gerwig quote may give people some warm fuzzies upfront, but with no follow-through it's like Pat Caldwell throwing out fake numbers while demanding more and more rail money. His credibility is gone and the HART brand is now politically toxic.
Probably the last thing I'd recommend is finding new blood. We live in a culture of senile elitists who have cut off access for everyone lower on the pyramid to join the Big Boy Club and play with the high rollers, and as a result our civilization is collapsing. It's a terrible organizational model to copy. New blood and new ideas are necessary to adapt to the changing world around us. What can't adapt dies. I'm pretty sure that's one of the laws of nature somewhere.
-
I know Mr Gerwig personally, and the fact that he has not gone running off into the sunset screaming "screw all you people" is a testament to his dedication.
He means well and with the help, not snarky indifference, of the local shooting community is trying to do what is workable for us.
Yes the group could be promoted better, but you guys gotta get off ur butts and join. Yes the NRA could represent us better, but why?
Just read this forum. Everyone here should be a member of both organizations... or GOA or SAF or (D) all of the above.
If you don't participate, Quit grumbling.
Hvybarrels you are right. Professional lobbying is expensive, but worth it.
Aloha... I think
-
I know Mr Gerwig personally, and the fact that he has not gone running off into the sunset screaming "screw all you people" is a testament to his dedication.
He means well and with the help, not snarky indifference, of the local shooting community is trying to do what is workable for us.
Yes the group could be promoted better, but you guys gotta get off ur butts and join. Yes the NRA could represent us better, but why?
Just read this forum. Everyone here should be a member of both organizations... or GOA or SAF or (D) all of the above.
If you don't participate, Quit grumbling.
Hvybarrels you are right. Professional lobbying is expensive, but worth it.
Aloha... I think
...
Yeah that's about it. I try to help HRA as much as possible, but my work schedule sucks.
Harvey is a great guy.
-
If Zippz nuummber of 0.06% of the population of Hawaii being a member is correct/accurate that puts their income (@$25 per year) at around $200k.
-
If Zippz nuummber of 0.06% of the population of Hawaii being a member is correct/accurate that puts their income (@$25 per year) at around $200k.
That would pay for 1/5 of a Wayne LaPierre, or 1/4 of a Chris Cox... though I suspect the HRA paid positions don't even remotely compare to the NRA salaries.
Also, if they have 84,000 members and get 8 testimony submissions in response to their email alerts... well, that's beyond sad...
-
That would pay for 1/5 of a Wayne LaPierre, or 1/4 of a Chris Cox... though I suspect the HRA paid positions don't even remotely compare to the NRA salaries.
Also, if they have 84,000 members and get 8 testimony submissions in response to their email alerts... well, that's beyond sad...
Their e-mail alrets look like spam e-mails so chances are they are ignored, They ahve 2 facebook pages the most likled one with a little over 1k likes, They have no social media presence that is worthwhile and everything they share is just copy past stuff.
-
If Zippz nuummber of 0.06% of the population of Hawaii being a member is correct/accurate that puts their income (@$25 per year) at around $200k.
Not 6%, it's 0.06% which is 1,000 members and about $25,000 a year. Probably less due to people having lifetime memberships and some new members get free intro memberships. Assume over half of that goes towards expenses, equipment, insurance, etc, then they would have $5,000 to $10,000 a year to work with.
Their e-mail alrets look like spam e-mails so chances are they are ignored, They ahve 2 facebook pages the most likled one with a little over 1k likes, They have no social media presence that is worthwhile and everything they share is just copy past stuff.
That's what you get when old guys are trying to figure out how to run the social media campaign.
That would pay for 1/5 of a Wayne LaPierre, or 1/4 of a Chris Cox... though I suspect the HRA paid positions don't even remotely compare to the NRA salaries.
I don't think there are any paid positions.
-
Would it be unfair or mean or trollish or something else bad of me to ask, "Step WHAT up?"? Maybe there's been something going on here in Puna all along and I just didn't/don't know about it.
Communications problem or non-existant program. I'm going to assume they're active in the hunting community since there's a lot of that going on there. They do run a Friends of the NRA banquet there. I'll learn more on my next trip there.
-
2) does HRA do this type of shooting? Sports fair, you have to pay to rent. So more for non-owners, not current gun owners.
They do shooting sessions with LIFE. They appeal to new shooters, instructor development, and event projects along with socials. Other groups fill in the gaps. HDF fills in with intermediate training. The USPSA and Chinese Gun clubs appeal to the high end competitive shooters. So you can go from first time shooter, intermediate training, competitive shooters, and instructor at Koko Head if you know how to navigate your way around the different clubs.
3) seems like they dropped the ball on the rapback. Someone in HRA should have been aware of the proposal b4 it was to late. London raised funds alone, if 1 man can do this, why cant an organization?
HRA did announce it when it was proposed. Lack of communication and participation played a big part. Not sure how they fund raise for things like this.
4) were they around when hawaii made registration manditory? If they were, what did they do to help prevent this and other 2a infrinents (mag limits, ccw denials, barrel length, etc...)
I dunno, hope some of the old timers can answer this. I was one of those clueless peeple when this happened. I assume the same reasons that RAPBACK was passed.
5) i know the above cost money, but i find it hard to believe that there isnt at least 1 attorney out there that could volunteer to help or trade services (if legal, firearm training for friends and family of atty, gun smithing, etc...). Or did HRA even contact the NRA for help because what happens in 1 state, others may follow.
NRA and other gun organizations refused to take the case. Attorney's aren't going to take it for free unless they think they can win.
6) i wrote to my rep and he proposed a ccw bill HB36. Did HRA do anything like this?
They're sitting down with the representatives for things like this, though a lot of them go nowhere.
-
Not 6%, it's 0.06% which is 1,000 members and about $25,000 a year. Probably less due to people having lifetime memberships and some new members get free intro memberships. Assume over half of that goes towards expenses, equipment, insurance, etc, then they would have $5,000 to $10,000 a year to work with.
That's what you get when old guys are trying to figure out how to run the social media campaign.
I don't think there are any paid positions.
I went with 1.3 million as the population, 1% would be 13000, 1/2 percent would be 6500
6500 x 25 = $162k
The whole old guys thing is self inflicted as I stated before, old boys club.
Like most things in Hawaii, some times it's not with trying to rebuild. It's easier to start over
-
I went with 1.3 million as the population, 1% would be 13000, 1/2 percent would be 6500
Not .6% (or rounding to .5% ("1/2 percent"))... .06% (or rounding to .05... 1/20 of a percent) = 650 members x $25 = $16,250
zippz, where'd you get that .06%? And, just out of curiosity, do you have a number for "gun owners" in the state?
I know I've heard Chuck Michel, the head of the law firm handling many NRA/Calguns lawsuits in California say that he estimates 10 million gun owners in California, and that if even just 10% of those, one million, would become "active", that they could control the legislature/county sheriff elections/mayoral elections/police chief appointments and rid California of all the draconian anti-gun laws that exist there. It appears "gun owners" may not be particularly inclined to be "active", and Hawaii may be even "worse" than California.
-
I am a member of the HRA and the HDF as well as the NRA. I like supporting the local organizations even though I don't usually take advantage of what they offer.
-
I am a member, but one thing that sticks out to me is first impressions and by that I mean the first impression I get when I first visited their website to learn more and the website, like many organizations in Hawaii, is seldom updated and is very “sterile”. I understand the HRA is made up of volunteers with full time jobs/careers, but when looking to donate or join to help a cause, the presentation of online materials is important IMHO, especially when it comes to attracting “younger” potential members.
Sometimes, as shallow as it may seem, the presentation can draw people. Perhaps the HRA would benefit from utilizing social media more. The more it’s out there, the better and it can’t “hurt”.
I’m relatively new to the 2A community as a whole, but again this is just what I first see. Still trying to "navigate" the scene so to speak.
-
I am a member, but one thing that sticks out to me is first impressions and by that I mean the first impression I get when I first visited their website to learn more and the website, like many organizations in Hawaii, is seldom updated and is very “sterile”. I understand the HRA is made up of volunteers with full time jobs/careers, but when looking to donate or join to help a cause, the presentation of online materials is important IMHO, especially when it comes to attracting “younger” potential members.
Sometimes, as shallow as it may seem, the presentation can draw people. Perhaps the HRA would benefit from utilizing social media more. The more it’s out there, the better and it can’t “hurt”.
I’m relatively new to the 2A community as a whole, but again this is just what I first see. Still trying to "navigate" the scene so to speak.
...
I think you are right.
-
Sometimes, as shallow as it may seem, the presentation can draw people. Perhaps the HRA would benefit from utilizing social media more.
It's not shallow at all. The number one job of a group like this is to get the message out so that people can join up and help do something about it. Managing all the new interest is another skill entirely, but there's no point in trying to play the political game without an active and mobilized membership.
-
As others have said I know of them. I don't know who they are, what they do, or where the money for membership goes.
-
This kind of soured me to the HRA
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=6791.20
Them submitting Legislative testimony opposing a stronger Castle Doctrine when almost all us supported it. (At least supported with amendment)
To me, Hawaii's Castle Doctrine is so thin and sucks as written.
legislation was presented to strengthen it and HRA (and LIFE) both submitted testimony opposing the new legislation, basically putting the issue to bed as it stands.
Personally, for me, a strong Castle Doctrine is as important, if not more important, as CCW.
And HRA basically testified AGAINST the testifying firearm community.
-
Precisely the Reason the Wife and I LEFT Hawaii.
The majority of gun owners We have met and talked to have little or no interest in joining the HRA
Many are millennials with a "ME" attitude.
They're not in it for the long run, instant gratification.
Given the number of guns Registered,
there "should" be enough New gun owners who "should" join the HRA and inject new blood and money.
But they don't.
Some I have talked to don't see anything wrong with registration, rap back etc.
They do Not see it as an erosion of their "Rights"
or they just don't CARE enough.
Since we have been in Texas, No One we have met are anti 2A.
The Texas Rangers, Game Wardens and police we've met are ALL Pro 2A.
When told about things in Hawaii, their response is "NOT here in Texas",
We live outside City Limits but still in town.
We hear gunfire all the time. (Sept 1, Opening Day dove season)
Guns are Sold openly at flea markets.
Wife and I will be going to 2 gun shows one week apart in the same town.
The only time a gun is "registered" is if bought from a FFL/Dealer.
NO Registration on Private face to face sales.
While back, Governor of Texas has told Feds to keep out of Texas.
Texas gun owners have Political Power.
If you want to move to Texas, We will Welcome you.
-
This kind of soured me to the HRA
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=6791.20
Them submitting Legislative testimony opposing a stronger Castle Doctrine when almost all us supported it. (At least supported with amendment)
To me, Hawaii's Castle Doctrine is so thin and sucks as written.
legislation was presented to strengthen it and HRA (and LIFE) both submitted testimony opposing the new legislation, basically putting the issue to bed as it stands.
Personally, for me, a strong Castle Doctrine is as important, if not more important, as CCW.
And HRA basically testified AGAINST the testifying firearm community.
A true castle doctrine will also make you immune from civil liability and ability to protect your property. Hawaii's a "modified castle" doctrine that states in your home or business, you don't have a duty to retreat and that's it.
I think Nevada passed a bill that the castle extends to your vehicle. So if someone car jacks you and is inside your car, it's open season.
Maybe we can try and push for that the next session. I'm new to the culture so only brought up CCW to my rep, not castle doctrine.
-
Heres something else that i bought up previouslt,
HRA has 16 members on its board of directos (for some reason the list is not on their website but can be found here https://web.archive.org/web/20161012062812/http://hawaiirifleassociation.org/about-hra/board-of-directors/ (https://web.archive.org/web/20161012062812/http://hawaiirifleassociation.org/about-hra/board-of-directors/) )
BUT they cant even get all 16 of those to give testimony.
-
I'll sign up for HRA when the board of directors unanimously strongly endorses and submits a bill for permitless (aka "constitutional") open and concealed carry.
Or is it too much to expect of them to stand up for the right to bear arms being uninfringed?
And one to abolish "registration" and "permits to acquire".
Or is it too much to expect of them to stand up for the right to keep arms being uninfringed?
(Those are rhetorical questions...).
Of course there is much more that any Second Amendment rights organization should be doing in terms of introducing legislation and clearly stating what are obvious and unacceptable infringements of Second Amendment protected rights, but I'll settle for those above to persuade me to join. I'm waiting for the announcements of action...
-
Heres something else that i bought up previouslt,
HRA has 16 members on its board of directos (for some reason the list is not on their website but can be found here https://web.archive.org/web/20161012062812/http://hawaiirifleassociation.org/about-hra/board-of-directors/ (https://web.archive.org/web/20161012062812/http://hawaiirifleassociation.org/about-hra/board-of-directors/) )
BUT they cant even get all 16 of those to give testimony.
Good point. That would be horrible if true. At the very least, they should have their names on the HRA testimony.
-
I am a member, but one thing that sticks out to me is first impressions and by that I mean the first impression I get when I first visited their website to learn more and the website, like many organizations in Hawaii, is seldom updated and is very “sterile”. I understand the HRA is made up of volunteers with full time jobs/careers, but when looking to donate or join to help a cause, the presentation of online materials is important IMHO, especially when it comes to attracting “younger” potential members.
Sometimes, as shallow as it may seem, the presentation can draw people. Perhaps the HRA would benefit from utilizing social media more. The more it’s out there, the better and it can’t “hurt”.
I’m relatively new to the 2A community as a whole, but again this is just what I first see. Still trying to "navigate" the scene so to speak.
They've updated their website which is a start, but I feel they need to have a lot more on it to keep people visiting it. I was thinking about adding the following to the website or social media:
Hawaii master calendar
Hawaii directory
Short descriptions of each shooting club
Information for transferring military members and new residents.
Youtube videos explaining upcoming legislation & how to testify.
Pictures and videos of recent events
Post up pictures submitted by members
Friendly gun forum
Training flowchart
-
Anyone know a successful mainland local NRA affiliate organization? Best way to succeed is to copy someone that's already succeeded.
-
Friendly gun forum
as opposed to other unfriendly gun forums...
-
Anyone know a successful mainland local NRA affiliate organization? Best way to succeed is to copy someone that's already succeeded.
In Illinois the Illinois State Rifle Association was party to lawsuits to overturn Chicago's handgun ban (McDonald v Chicago) and the state's no issue CCW policy (Moore v Madigan, at least indirectly through their lawsuit Shepard v Madigan which was later subordinated to Moore v Madigan). That organization, along with Illinois Carry, both funded lawsuits and was active at grassroots and lobbying the legislature to get the carry law changed from no issue to shall issue (even then with many restrictions (aka "infringements"), but at least they made issue a possibility if a person had the time and money necessary to "qualify"). My understanding is that they worked on those projects for between 10 and 15 years before seeing the results in successful litigation and then legislative action. So if HRA changed their tune and became an effective organization tomorrow, that'd mean... oh, never mind.
-
as opposed to other unfriendly gun forums...
Duh. Don't be stupid. (Kidding)
-
HRA needs a more active gun community, not just non-members that expect HRA to be active.
Let me share an observation... Testimonies on 2A bills.
When gun bills come up, these things help but are not enough to change the outcome:
1. submitting written testimonies - Legislators don't read the testimonies. They count them but unless they know the person that wrote it, they don't pay any attention to them.
2. Harvey and Kerry testifying on their own on behalf of HRA - Despite the valiant effort of the 2 active people in HRA to actually show up and give testimony in person, legislators will listen to them both but then move on.
3. Gun clubs that personally promise you they will send their officers, but no one shows up.
What actually works: A room filled with Pro-2A people giving testimony eloquently. Don't be a jackass. Instead, get to know and have a dialogue with the legislators and even the reps of state agencies (HPD, AG, etc) that testify anti-2A. When they see there is a strong opposition from people who actually show up and give oral testimonies, they have to listen and sometimes change their minds. I've personally seen one or two bad bills die in committee when this happens.
-
HRA needs a more active gun community, not just non-members that expect HRA to be active.
Let me share an observation... Testimonies on 2A bills.
When gun bills come up, these things help but are not enough to change the outcome:
1. submitting written testimonies - Legislators don't read the testimonies. They count them but unless they know the person that wrote it, they don't pay any attention to them.
2. Harvey and Kerry testifying on their own on behalf of HRA - Despite the valiant effort of the 2 active people in HRA to actually show up and give testimony in person, legislators will listen to them both but then move on.
3. Gun clubs that personally promise you they will send their officers, but no one shows up.
What actually works: A room filled with Pro-2A people giving testimony eloquently. Don't be a jackass. Instead, get to know and have a dialogue with the legislators and even the reps of state agencies (HPD, AG, etc) that testify anti-2A. When they see there is a strong opposition from people who actually show up and give oral testimonies, they have to listen and sometimes change their minds. I've personally seen one or two bad bills die in committee when this happens.
The county of Hawaii recognizes that the Big Island is big enough that people having to travel to the alternating locations of Kona and Hilo for County Council meetings is a hardship of time, distance and expense, and therefore spends the money and uses existing technology to have live video feeds from three separate locations (Pahoa, Waimea, Kona/Hilo) on the island where people can submit live testimony via the remote video feeds. But the State of Hawaii refuses to recognize the hardship of time, distance and expense for people on all other islands to have to go to Oahu to testify before the legislature and has decided to not provide any other means (e.g. live video feeds from the other islands) for the already disenfanchised outer island residents to get an equal chance to testify re bills that effect them (can you imagine the amount of testimony they'd have received from the outer islands re the new rail tax increase?). In the case of the Big Island the state might even be able to make "arrangements" to share the already existing video feeds (some provision for conflicting schedules between county and state meetings notwithstanding). Why doesn't the state want to hear equally from the other island residents? The technology exists, and the financial outlay would be minimal, especially compared to the money they waste on trivia and fraud and ineffective laws (e.g. 50,000 hours per year registering firearms just on Oahu and that information NEVER being used to solve even ONE SINGLE CRIME).
I mean really, why can't people just testify live via Skype from home? We see this all day long all over the internet with people being interviewed on live internet broadcasts. They just have a "director" coordinating the order of the calls and alerting callers to when they will be coming up. It's not rocket science. But "our" government and "our" "public servants" don't want this intrusion into the public sphere by the bumpkins slaves underlings useful idiots citizens.
I think we all know the answer to this: the almost unanimous progressive Hawaii legislature has an agenda and they have very little incentive to even pretend that they listen to the citizenry on the issues. They can pretty much do whatever they want and only on the rarest of occasions be concerned about not getting re-elected.
-
Re. Submitting testimony.
Punaperson just wrote what I was thinking about using technology to testify in person.
Not just from outer islands either. The sad reality is that people are so busy trying to make a living or caring for their families here they don't have the time to spare to go to these hearings.
Unlike legislators whose JOB is to go to meetings.
-
Biggest problem is the electorate, and the "opposition party".
Those who vote, whatever the percentage is 45 or 50 on a good day, vote for the same clowns that run the show now.
Until we get rid of the entrenched crowd we got now we are going nowhere.
The opposition has NO reason for there to be an uncontested election.
The single party system we have in play now will only get worse.
I have said it before. The Democrat Party has become the Oligarchy is replaced.
It is even more powerful than the Big 5 and the plantation, and aims to keep us all under their thumb.
We as gun owners are probably a small percentage of citizens, but we need to be over represented in the elections.
-
I was going to compose a thought out precise list of all the things the HRA does but it would be a waste of time on the big dick shit talking keyboard warrior retards that seem to have taken over this forum.
Step 1: Declare what needs to be done.
Step 2: Do nothing and talk out of your ass online.
Back to the classifieds......
-
I was going to compose a thought out precise list of all the things the HRA does but it would be a waste of time on the big dick shit talking keyboard warrior retards that seem to have taken over this forum.
Step 1: Declare what needs to be done.
Step 2: Do nothing and talk out of your ass online.
Back to the classifieds......
Same here. I was out of town on vacation when I saw this thread and told myself to respond when I got back home. I was going to prepare responses to the ones that I felt compelled, particularly ones stating what I felt were either opinions formed from a "sideline perspective". Yes, there are many things that HRA can improve, but I am saying that from a perspective of someone who is involved. I know many on here are involved as well, but just haven't spoken up.
A couple of things that I did want to respond to are first that HRA doesn't try anything new. I can say for a fact that they are willing to try new things and I am part of a group that has been asked to offer some new things. If you want more information on that, come out and participate. I've been involved with HRA since I got back into shooting and moved back to Hawaii and since then I've seen so many new people come into HRA, with many different backgrounds, interests, desires. The second is the part about HRA leadership being stagnant. Well, at least IMO, one reason is that there aren't many folks that step up to try leadership roles. I for one haven't and that's on me. Though I have expressed my concerns to those in leadership positions and I have seen changes.
Yes, many who have responded to this thread appear to do a lot for 2A, gun rights, etc. While everyone is entitled to their opinion, there were many things said that I disagree with, or many perceptions that I feel are either in the past or misconceptions. Yes, like any group, it had it's dynamics, some that I don't agree with, but I do try to do what is right and help where I can because I do believe in the core mission of the group.
There are those who have been turned off by specific aspects or people in HRA. A few people in particular have been singled out. One of them mentioned is one that I recognize and is one that I feel is super knowledgeable about 2A issues, but one that I rarely see at HRA functions. At least ones that I participate in.
While I participate in HRA when I can, I also participate in HDF where I can, USPSA/IPSC where I can, etc. All activities that I enjoy. Sometimes I think people forget that's why they got into shooting in the first place, which is the enjoyment of the activity.
-
new 2ah member, so not sure what my .02 cents are worth.
i recently put in for a cmp garand, and did research on various hawaii organizations that would qualify. I believe the HDF qualified, HRA may or may not have. That's basically what I made my decision on. If HRA qualifies, might be worthwhile to put a blurb on the front page that states it does, perhaps one that links to the CMP website area that says it's a qualified gun club, and right next to it, a signup for the minimum level membership. EASY membership gains.
Pricing between the two is similar.
HRA website isn't the best, and doesn't really define what benefits a member gets from joining. Just look at this calendar. http://hawaiirifleassociation.org/calendar/
It basically tells me nothing, no info on signing up for events, what the events entail, time, whos eligible, etc.
Photo gallery of past events? Say the Gun show or the LIFE classes, show people having fun and gaining value from their membership.
It says nothing regarding political action, what they're trying to do to improve gun laws in hawaii, updates on discussions with lawmakers, pushing for better facilities at Kokohead with better hours, perhaps a new range on the westside, and how members can support the action.
If you want more members to join, make it clear on your website what you do, and what members have to be proud of. Make it clear on what benefits members get by joining. Make it clear on what you do in the shooting community.
As everyone knows word of mouth is KING in hawaii. If the benefits of joining are evident, people will come in droves.
My viewpoint as an outsider is that HRA needs people in leadership positions that have strong business and IT skills (to develop the website, looks like developed by someone in ICS101 at UH).
etc etc etc
-
new 2ah member, so not sure what my .02 cents are worth.
i recently put in for a cmp garand, and did research on various hawaii organizations that would qualify. I believe the HDF qualified, HRA may or may not have. That's basically what I made my decision on. If HRA qualifies, might be worthwhile to put a blurb on the front page that states it does, perhaps one that links to the CMP website area that says it's a qualified gun club, and right next to it, a signup for the minimum level membership. EASY membership gains.
Pricing between the two is similar.
HRA website isn't the best, and doesn't really define what benefits a member gets from joining. Just look at this calendar. http://hawaiirifleassociation.org/calendar/
It basically tells me nothing, no info on signing up for events, what the events entail, time, whos eligible, etc.
Photo gallery of past events? Say the Gun show or the LIFE classes, show people having fun and gaining value from their membership.
It says nothing regarding political action, what they're trying to do to improve gun laws in hawaii, updates on discussions with lawmakers, pushing for better facilities at Kokohead with better hours, perhaps a new range on the westside, and how members can support the action.
If you want more members to join, make it clear on your website what you do, and what members have to be proud of. Make it clear on what benefits members get by joining. Make it clear on what you do in the shooting community.
As everyone knows word of mouth is KING in hawaii. If the benefits of joining are evident, people will come in droves.
My viewpoint as an outsider is that HRA needs people in leadership positions that have strong business and IT skills (to develop the website, looks like developed by someone in ICS101 at UH).
etc etc etc
Thanks for the input. I'll compile everyones issues and suggestions and post it up here and go over it with HRA. It seems their website and social media needs a lot of improvement con communicating why people should join their group.
-
I have been going back and forth trying to decide what group to join. The NRA, HRA, and HDF. I know, why not join all 3 but I am going to start with 1. I gotta say that HRA isn't looking like first choice right now.
I wonder if the HDF could sort of take over as a lead Hawaii gun rights group? If they were able to take the lead and get associated with the NRA then that might be great.
Maybe a poll to see how many are members in one, the other, both, or neither? If we have a lot of one or the other then consolidation might be most advantageous.
-
The difference between HRA and HDF is HRA is very broad while HDF is focused.
HRA handles a lot of stuff for gun rights that HDF doesn't do. Hunting and conservation, range development, community events, fundraising for local charities, instructor development, networking with legislators, etc. HDF is focused more on the legislative, training, and self-defense aspects. HRA is also several times larger than HDF. HRA is looking at the long term community development while I see HDF is effective in the short term.
I think they are supplementary, both organizations are needed. It would be more effective if both of them could coordinate better.
-
Got the tshirt.
-
Got the tshirt.
and the need to post on every thread on 2aHI...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
and the need to post on every thread on 2aHI...
No I don't...
-
Just reread everyone's comments on here. Yes I do read them and take everything into consideration. Haven't relayed it to HRA yet.
Any other input is most welcome.