2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: mikeyd96786 on October 03, 2017, 02:55:25 AM
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https://apnews.com/e74a33083fb84b1b94c1ce3da986fd4f
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That's what it sounded like to me and what I told inquiring family members.
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So I guess the snowflakes are going to make them illegal. Just like a how an ar15 looks like a military weapon And they argue the public should not need one. But you can pick up a wood hunting rifle and kill just the same. I live in Hilo but am im Oklahoma right now for school. Everyone here open/conceal carries.
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I suggested to one liberal I was debating on Facebook that if you want real progress in congress you need actual compromise. Her suggestion was we keep some guns but don't keep others. I pointed out nothing is gained by one side. I then suggested a real example would be a banning of bump-fire type devices in exchange for national CCW. Waiting for her reply.
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I have a feeling bump stocks and cranks will either be banned or regulated, which essentially is a ban. Not many people would pay the stamp for those gimmick devices. Bump stocks can be made with a 3D printer. Bad guys don't care about laws, so they will surely find a way to do what they intend to do. In the case of someone intending to commit a mass murder, what's the difference if he breaks one law or a hundred. He pretty much had enough money to buy stuff legally or he surely could have obtained these weapons illegally, if he had been prohibited from obtaining them legally.
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Not knowing much about bump stocks, let me ask a dumb question. Since the bump stock does not modify the gun in any way, what is the advantage to using one compared to just pulling the trigger fast?
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Not knowing much about bump stocks, let me ask a dumb question. Since the bump stock does not modify the gun in any way, what is the advantage to using one compared to just pulling the trigger fast?
....
Your finger doesn't get tired.
But seriously, how hard is it to rig up something to pull a trigger? Not very hard.
Friends had a cranking gadget hooked up to an electric shoe shine motor...spectacular.
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They just want more reason to take our guns away from us. If I wasn't born and raised in Hawaii with family ties. I definitely would move to a red state.
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Not knowing much about bump stocks, let me ask a dumb question. Since the bump stock does not modify the gun in any way, what is the advantage to using one compared to just pulling the trigger fast?
A bump fire stock will shoot almost as fast as an automatic rifle, about 800 rounds per minute.
A pro shooter like Miculek can shoot around 400 rounds per minute, maybe 300 with a regular trained shooter.
A bump fire stock can fire like that for hundreds or thousands of rounds at that rate.
A shooter pressing the trigger can keep that rate for maybe 30 rounds with a light trigger.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddPTyoV-Irc
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I would classify a bump fire stock as an automatic device like a trigger kit, as I posted above and in the active shooter thread, technically different but the results are similar. Question isn't if bump fire stocks should be legal or not. Question should be is having automatic weapons a constitutional right and be unrestricted?
I don't hear that argument from pro-gun groups and people. If fact when the NRA and others say an incident occurred with a semiauto vs automatic firearm, to me it says they think automatics are bad and are rightfully restricted or banned. Or that automatics are already heavily restricted it seems like they justify it. If we should restrict an automatic firearm based on the amount of harm it causes, then the same point can be made about semi-automatics. There will be copy cat mass shootings in the future like this with bump fire stocks and automatic firearms.
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Not knowing much about bump stocks, let me ask a dumb question. Since the bump stock does not modify the gun in any way, what is the advantage to using one compared to just pulling the trigger fast?
You can burn through your "extra" ammo quicker. ;D
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I would classify a bump fire stock as an automatic device like a trigger kit, as I posted above and in the active shooter thread, technically different but the results are similar. Question isn't if bump fire stocks should be legal or not. Question should be is having automatic weapons a constitutional right and be unrestricted?
I don't hear that argument from pro-gun groups and people. If fact when the NRA and others say an incident occurred with a semiauto vs automatic firearm, to me it says they think automatics are bad and are rightfully restricted or banned. Or that automatics are already heavily restricted it seems like they justify it. If we should restrict an automatic firearm based on the amount of harm it causes, then the same point can be made about semi-automatics. There will be copy cat mass shootings in the future like this with bump fire stocks and automatic firearms.
Automatic weapons are severely restricted
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The NRA says the BATFE needs to revisit the Bump Fire Stock ruling and see if it truly conforms to the law. They believe it should be more strictly regulated, similar to other accessories/modifications that change the functionality of the weapon.
(https://i.imgur.com/eFhrIWH.jpg)
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I could live with that compromise
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I've tried the bump fire stock and it's meh. Good for burning up a bunch of ammo. I have seen folks who can get the firing rate up close to full auto though with the slide fire stock.
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We're falling into that paradigm of the tools used.
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The National Rifle Association announced its support today for regulating “bump stocks,” devices that can effectively convert semi-automatic rifles into fully automated weapons and that were apparently used in the Las Vegas massacre to lethal effect.
congress, president, and nra agreeing to regulate, they're going to be banned. Only question is how wide the ban may be. It may ban any devices that result in the firing a round without a corresponding manual finger pull of the trigger.
If the NRA and republicans are smart, they'll tie in the ban with national right to carry, then throw the ball in the democrat's court on whether to support the bill or not. Technically all states allow concealed carry, even lame states like ours that issue none as a "may" issue state. So one would think that 50 state reciprocity wouldn't be that hard a sell.
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The NRA says the BATFE needs to revisit the Bump Fire Stock ruling and see if it truly conforms to the law. They believe it should be more strictly regulated, similar to other accessories/modifications that change the functionality of the weapon.
(https://i.imgur.com/eFhrIWH.jpg)
hmmm, i thought the golden child was the greatest president in history...
“the Obama administration approved the sale of bump fire stocks on at least two occasions"
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I could live with that compromise
Not a compromise if only one side gives up something. :thumbsup:
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Another bump fire video, without the stock.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ-FV_VRlXU
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Whitehouse, NRA, Congress agree. Bump fire stocks are to be regulated.
Will there be any pro gun concessions? Probably not.
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At this point, knowing everything that we know, banning anything isnt going to solve the "problem". However, I'm not so naive to think that the rest of the world is full of logical and reasonable people. If we escape this debacle with a slap-on-the-wrist ban of these gimmicks, we'll be in decent shape. I'll start to get nervous once the "ban high capacity magazine" war drum starts beating.
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At this point, knowing everything that we know, banning anything isnt going to solve the "problem". However, I'm not so naive to think that the rest of the world is full of logical and reasonable people. If we escape this debacle with a slap-on-the-wrist ban of these gimmicks, we'll be in decent shape. I'll start to get nervous once the "ban high capacity magazine" war drum starts beating.
It already is. Read a survey from CNN that correlates ban on "high capacity mags" with lower mass shooting rates. Admits there is no causal relationship, but the headline is all people normally see.
It doesn't go into detail whether the mag limits have been ignored by mass shooters in, say, California.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/05/politics/gun-laws-magazines-las-vegas/index.html
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Watching concert goers run for their lives while being shot at was truly terrifying and we all feel for the victims on that horrible day. We’re all praying for the victims and their families.
Banning bump fire stocks is a logical choice for Congress and even the NRA. Congress wants to show the public that the government is “doing something” about the issue. The NRA is being strategic in supporting this proposal to show it is willing to play ball now to avoid possible bigger restrictions in the future.
The bump fire stocks used by the shooter did allow the shooter to get off more rounds versus not having these devices. It also made an already bad situation even worse by creating simulated machine-gun like fire that strikes even more fear, both during and after the tragedy.
However, in my humble opinion, the shooter would have caused more carnage if he did NOT use bump fire stocks with his rifles. Experienced shooters know that well-aimed shots are more effective than quickly fired shots. The perp was also firing at a distance of about 1,100 feet, more than 300 yards. The unsteadiness caused by the bump fire stocks most likely reduced his accuracy, possibly resulting in less casualties. If he had taken slower, well-aimed shots, the loss of life may have been greater.
Banning bump fire stocks is misplaced but the obvious choice, given this situation. Yet, we all know it will not stop future events like this from happening. The shooter’s girlfriend reported the perp would wake up in the middle of night screaming, making mental illness a possible factor. A step in the right direction would be to make the treatment of mental illness of priority in this country. However, it’s easier to pass gun/product bans than to look at the root cause of these crimes.
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At this point, knowing everything that we know, banning anything isnt going to solve the "problem". However, I'm not so naive to think that the rest of the world is full of logical and reasonable people. If we escape this debacle with a slap-on-the-wrist ban of these gimmicks, we'll be in decent shape. I'll start to get nervous once the "ban high capacity magazine" war drum starts beating.
I could care less about slide stocks but that's not the point. It's the person and not the device! This guy could have easily used a semi-auto AR15 and several high capacity mags and wiped out a mass of people before he was subdued. Then it would have been high capacity mags, or AR15 ban, or assault weapon ban, you name it. They take slide stocks and open the door to the weapons that use slide stocks, and why not triggers...match triggers, binary triggers, light triggers, and then of course high capacity mags and drums. It can go on and on. Any chip in our 2A rights is caving in to the antis and liberal agenda to restrict and ultimately amend or get rid of the 2A. And these liberals don't just want to change the 2A...they want them all.
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I could care less about slide stocks but that's not the point. It's the person and not the device!
I know this. You know this. But Joe Public and his representative isn't going to see it like that and thats just the world we live in.
Funny thing is, the people I've been talking to (non gun guys) are freaking out about bumpstock rifles yet suddenly they start thinking concealed handguns are OK for protection.
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I know this. You know this. But Joe Public and his representative isn't going to see it like that and thats just the world we live in.
Funny thing is, the people I've been talking to (non gun guys) are freaking out about bumpstock rifles yet suddenly they start thinking concealed handguns are OK for protection.
I'm not so sure about that. We won the white house, we have the senate and we have congress. A lot of voters see it different but the problem is the MSM is liberal, so they control the agenda being spun. There never is a compromise, the gun guys always lose. The NRA surely won't do anything, after all they supported NFA '34 and GCA '68. To me it's the principle regarding our 2A rights and has nothing to do with the add on accessory(s). So what happens when the next guy does something with a AR15 with high capacity mags? You can bet this will get reignited and they will want something else banned or regulated. We can't even get a universal concealed carry. More worst, whatever doesn't happen at the federal level, our state will be sure they catch it and give us the shaft if they can. Just my two cents....
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A bump fire stock will shoot almost as fast as an automatic rifle, about 800 rounds per minute.
A pro shooter like Miculek can shoot around 400 rounds per minute, maybe 300 with a regular trained shooter.
A bump fire stock can fire like that for hundreds or thousands of rounds at that rate.
A shooter pressing the trigger can keep that rate for maybe 30 rounds with a light trigger.
It's interesting that the bump stock was less accurate.
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"A bump fire stock will shoot almost as fast as an automatic rifle, about 800 rounds per minute."
Actually, the bumpfire stock was passed as legal because it could put out no more than 400 rnds per minute, the very classification of a full auto firearm.
"The NRA says the BATFE needs to revisit the Bump Fire Stock ruling and see if it truly conforms to the law. They believe it should be more strictly regulated, similar to other accessories/modifications that change the functionality of the weapon."
The "NRA is calling for ATF to REVIEW whether these devices comply with Federal Law." (see bumpfire stock rof above)
I see no NOTHING where "They (NRA) believe it should be more strictly regulated, but rather "subject to additional regulations".
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Actually, the bumpfire stock was passed as legal because it could put out no more than 400 rnds per minute, the very classification of a full auto firearm.
I didn't know there was a rate for it. The ATF tested the stock wrong or the manufacturer modified the stock after the review. In the Miculek video, it appears he fired 10 rounds in about 0.8 seconds for a rate of 750 rounds per minute.
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The bum stock is a novelty. How many of you own them? How often do you use them? Do you have it on your go-to TEOTWAWKI gun?
I don't think it matters. What we have here is a sick individual. We've relegated our thought processes to that of a child as we continue to blame a tool rather than a person. One day box cutters (which was used in the process of killing thousands) another day bump stocks. This is why we need a time to mourn and let emotions subside before we legislate ourselves to ridiculousness.
There is always that question of "How can we prevent this from happening again?" That in itself is a loaded question. One person mind as well use a crystal ball because NONE of us can predict what people will do. To think we have the ability to shape a person's behavior is hubris. What we can do to prevent this is to empower the people. Allow CCW.
This guy obviously was a coward as he killed himself before an encounter with armed responders - that in itself tells us that a CCW holder would have had a chance with this guy.
I hope the NRA ties this to the SHARE act. They should be smart enough to influence that.
Because the people who want this piece of plastic banned want ALL GUNS BANNED. That is their goal. Much as what some groups asked for "tolerance" decades ago.
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Another bump fire video, without the stock.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ-FV_VRlXU
They may make "shouldering" a rifle legal.
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Maybe the bump fire rate can vary somewhat with the strength or skill of the person using it, or the resistance/tuning of the stock.
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WASHINGTON — House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi conceded Thursday that members supporting gun control want more than just a bill to ban the “bump stock” firearm accessory that the Las Vegas shooter used to rapidly fire bullets at a crowd of concert-goers.
“There are going to be Republicans who resist this because they say, ‘Give the gun control people an inch and they’ll try to take a mile,'” a reporter asked Pelosi at a press conference. “So how do you plan to overcome that when the truth is that you would like to go further?”
“So what?” Pelosi responded. “They’re going to say, ‘You give them bump stock, it’s going to be a slippery slope.’ I certainly hope so. But I don’t think bump stock should be a substitute for the background check. By the way the background check is a compromise. There are many more things members want to do, and we’re saying, ‘How do we save the most lives?’ We save the most lives with a background check.”
http://dailycaller.com/2017/10/05/pelosi-hopes-for-slippery-slope-on-gun-regulations/ (http://dailycaller.com/2017/10/05/pelosi-hopes-for-slippery-slope-on-gun-regulations/)
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A lot of NRA supporters are pulling away from the organization over their willingness to concede on this one. I've been a member and supported the NRA since I was a young adult and frankly, they have disappointed me on many occasions but I could only imagine how bad things could be if they didn't exist. Not taking sides one way or the other regarding the NRA's overall importance and value, but in this case, IMO they should not concede on this issue, nor should Trump or the republicans.
Military Arms Channel: Effective Immediately: I withdraw my support for the NRA until further notice. I have suspended all support and recruiting efforts. The next couple of videos I have are already edited and have a request for you to join. Please ignore that request. I am currently traveling but will remove the link in my future videos to the NRA website. I will be speaking with NRA leadership soon (hopefully) and if their position is to negotiate in any way whatsoever with anti-gun forces my future support will end and I will resign my membership. https://www.facebook.com/militaryarm...2hMB1w&fref=nf
(https://image.ibb.co/mMUpQb/22196208_1698686603476465_1022844486816596374_n.jpg)
Mr. GunsnGear's take on it and some of the rights we have conceded (not compromised) and the presidents promise during his NRA speech:
https://youtu.be/tAoNRlspkvE
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I don't think leaving the NRA is a good answer. It's obvious that ONE organization strikes fear in most Democrats that want to take guns away from us. A leadership change? Yes. But don't dwindle our membership numbers. They are dividing us.
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I don't think leaving the NRA is a good answer. It's obvious that ONE organization strikes fear in most Democrats that want to take guns away from us. A leadership change? Yes. But don't dwindle our membership numbers. They are dividing us.
I agree! I've been disappointed in them several times but they are the only real voice we have and like you said, they do fear them. One thing about liberals and democrats is they will always band together, even if they disagree, whereas republicans tear each other apart and nothing gets done, just like health care.
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let's hope for a real compromise.
Ban this stock but open it up for nation wide suppressor legalization and CCW. :thumbsup:
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I don't think we should just give up bump fire stocks
We should at least get national reciprocity in a deal for the bump fire stocks
If we give up something, we should get something in return
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A lot of NRA supporters are pulling away from the organization over their willingness to concede on this one. I've been a member and supported the NRA since I was a young adult and frankly, they have disappointed me on many occasions but I could only imagine how bad things could be if they didn't exist. Not taking sides one way or the other regarding the NRA's overall importance and value, but in this case, IMO they should not concede on this issue, nor should Trump or the republicans.
Mr. GunsnGear's take on it and some of the rights we have conceded (not compromised) and the presidents promise during his NRA speech:
https://youtu.be/tAoNRlspkvE (https://youtu.be/tAoNRlspkvE)
Only one winner here...
(http://www.snopes.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/clinton-quote.jpg)
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(https://i.imgur.com/sHLVaCL.png)
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There will be reimbursement for the stock I bought years ago right? I wonder how many times I've gone from legal citizen to criminal with a strike of the pen.
There will be assistance for the employees of Slidefire to get new work, moving expenses and help transition their benefits like health insurance right? If slidefire has any business loans the owner will get assistance for paying those back right? How about the manufactures of every faster trigger? should they start looking for new jobs now or wait for their companies to be closed down as well?
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I don't think leaving the NRA is a good answer. It's obvious that ONE organization strikes fear in most Democrats that want to take guns away from us. A leadership change? Yes. But don't dwindle our membership numbers. They are dividing us.
Was listening to an interview on NPR yesterday for a writer that covers NRA. If what he's saying is true, the NRA has affected quite a bit, particularly at the state levels. Obviously not here. Of course his coverage was swayed anti-gun, but he did bring up a lot of good points. Like how NRA is almost like a cult religion in a way. I forget exactly what he said, but it rang true.
I don't think we should just give up bump fire stocks
We should at least get national reciprocity in a deal for the bump fire stocks
If we give up something, we should get something in return
I could care less about slide fire stocks, but I have never seen the "give up something to get something back" work when it comes to gun rights/laws.
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I don't care about bump fire myself
I just don't want us to start off on a slippery slope down gun grabbers and AR parts banners mountain
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IMO, no matter what, I'm sure after this terrible inccedent there will be aloft more strict gun laws to be enforced. In all levels.
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I don't care about bump fire myself
I just don't want us to start off on a slippery slope down gun grabbers and AR parts banners mountain
I hear that. Seems like take a little here, concede a little there, etc has been the norm the past 8-10 years (longer really). It would be good to get some things back, or return to more freedom. Sadly, I don't see that happening. Though I won't stop supporting the effort.
One bright (or maybe faint light) that I've seen are folk who are usually totally anti-gun conceding need of say handgun for self defense. Even going so far as to say that they are either looking into getting one to so far as planning on getting on themselves.
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This is a new tactic with the NRA. We'll give you this if you give us that. I wonder if they know what they're doing?
In Union negotiations, the company usually initially offers a generous raise if the Union members will start paying more for their healthcare. Of course, paying more for their healthcare is unacceptable so the company concedes in exchange for a less than generous pay raise. It's negotiation 101.
First we will have to see if there will be a need to negotiate with the politicians. The reciprocal CCW is unacceptable to a significant number of politicians, so I'm curious what the NRA's next move will be.
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I see the bump stock as a novelty item. It gives a semi-auto rifle the functionality of a full-auto, and to me, that has limited application for defensive firearms.
I do, however, see many practical applications for suppressors and/or nationwide CCW. Given a chance to get either or both of those, I'd have no problem banning the bump stock.
We gave up so many other gun rights under the guise of compromise, it's nice to actually have a chance to GET something in exchange -- other than "we want to ban all guns, so we're giving that up if you give up X."
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http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/10/05/breaking-gunbroker-bans-sale-slidefire-bumpfire-stocks/
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Ghetto AK version (courtesy of 10Gauge)....pretty cheap and easy if someone wants to make a device to increase the rate of fire.
(https://image.ibb.co/iCHm8w/422857_3494925901932_1535112452_33079179_1953935234_n.jpg)
(https://image.ibb.co/eLxxFb/428108_3494926381944_1535112452_33079181_831609118_n.jpg)
1. Tapco Inrafuse Stock $49.00
2. Two 'L' brackets $2.50
3. Screws $0.50
4. Can of matte black spray paint $2.00
Total: $54
1. Mount Intrafuse Stock to your AK-47
2. Remove the Stock Retaining Latch. Rotate the nut on the latch until you see the slot, there is a roll pin in this slot, tap out the roll pin, then unscrew the nut. The latch will now slide off.
3. Now that you have the latch off file down the edges (so that when assembled the latch can be pulled down and rotated sideways holding the latch open, thus allowing the stock to slide freely)
4. Reassemble the latch (don't for get to put the roll pin back in) and check the function as described above.
5. Remove rear sling swivel
6. Bend 'L' Bracket as seen in photo (using a vise to bend works best)
7. Line up the hole in the 'L' Bracket with sling swivel hole in the stock and screw together.
8. Drill hole in pistol grip, and screw 'L' Bracket to pistol grip (remove the original pistol grip screw and nut, the idea is to make the pistol grip and buttstock into one piece that slides freely back and forth on the Buffer Tube aka. stock extension).
9. cut a piece of an 'L' Bracket for use as a finger rest, screw it into the side of the pistol grip.
10. Spray paint to make it look good and protect the steel 'L' Bracket.
It is now ready to fire. If you wish to not bumpfire, all you've got to do is rotate the Stock Retaining latch around and let it spring back into place (this will lock up the stock so that you can shoot regularly).
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Ghetto AK version (courtesy of 10Gauge)....pretty cheap and easy if someone wants to make a device to increase the rate of fire.
Ghetto version? There are tons of videos of the "bubba version" where they fire the gun from the hip.
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Didn't the ATF make it illegal to use string to help bump fire?
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Didn't the ATF make it illegal to use string to help bump fire?
They did, but later reversed it.
Specifically a 14" length of string .... :rofl:
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They did, but later reversed it.
Specifically a 14" length of string .... :rofl:
Needs to be 16.01" or more. . . :thumbsup:
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Didn't the ATF make it illegal to use string to help bump fire?
Here it is ... the shoestring machine gun.
https://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/2010/01/25/shoestring-machine-gun/