2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: Inspector on October 23, 2017, 05:55:38 AM
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Standing at one of my Homies' Bench talking story when all of the sudden I saw the guy at the bench next to us starting to walk away from the line with a bolt action gun with the muzzle pointing down and the bolt all the way forward. He started to raise the gun upwards meaning it would have been pointing in my direction. I yelled at him pretty damn loud. Telling him to keep the muzzle pointing in a safe direction. Then I yelled a few expletives and then noticed and bolt was not turned down so it could not have fired anyway. Doesn't matter.
They left immediately after and I got a call from my brother just after I yelled at them so I walked away. I don't normally yell like that. And I would have walked up to them and calmly explained the range rules and why we keep muzzles pointing down range. But my phone call was a priority to me at the time.
Makes me want to stop going to the range altogether....
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If the rifle was uncased and bolt forward I would have yelled at them too.
Aren't firearms supposed to be cased and uncased at the firing line?
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Yeling is fine, as long as its followed by an explanation educating why.
If its first time shooters that never got any firearms training then they have to be educated.
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On the mainland I stepped onto the train tracks to get around a crowd of people. They looked at me like I was crazy and yelled at me to get off the tracks. Never growing up around trains I didn't know.
Could be the same thing.
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1-HRS specifies that firearms are supposed to be transported in a "commercially manufactured" case.
2-Standard RSO verbal instructions state that firearms are supposed to be cased and uncased at the firing line.
There is no excuse for swinging a firearm around like that.
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Yeah, doesn't matter if the bolt wasn't locked. Barrel of the gun shouldn't have strayed from being pointed down range. Many folks aren't used to the range rules and are more used to "doing what they want". I see quite often actually. Nothing like turning around in a shooting course and seeing a barrel of gun pointed in your direction.
Sounds like you're feeling bad about yelling at the guy, at least at the level that you did. You definitely have a lot going on and crappy to have that kind of experience ruin your "Inspector time" at the range where it should be a time for you to get away and clear your mind. Please don't let it get to you. You'll be sorely missed at the range.
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You aren't yelling, you're talking loud enough so everyone can learn from their mistakes.
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Standing at one of my Homies' Bench talking story when all of the sudden I saw the guy at the bench next to us starting to walk away from the line with a bolt action gun with the muzzle pointing down and the bolt all the way forward. He started to raise the gun upwards meaning it would have been pointing in my direction. I yelled at him pretty damn loud. Telling him to keep the muzzle pointing in a safe direction. Then I yelled a few expletives and then noticed and bolt was not turned down so it could not have fired anyway. Doesn't matter.
They left immediately after and I got a call from my brother just after I yelled at them so I walked away. I don't normally yell like that. And I would have walked up to them and calmly explained the range rules and why we keep muzzles pointing down range. But my phone call was a priority to me at the time.
Makes me want to stop going to the range altogether....
you a range officer? just curious. Of course ANYONE can yell at someone for doing something stupid like that.
It's always the noob shooters that you really need to watch and be careful for. Like the guys bringing their gfs for the first time, etc. Kinda always give these people the side eye for a while to make sure they aren't going to do something stupid. and no it's not because i'm checking out the gf. lol
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You aren't yelling, you're talking loud enough so everyone can learn from their mistakes.
everyone wearing earplugs and/or muffs. you kinda need to yell
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This is a common problem that most of us have seen. How do we prevent it? Some ranges make you go through a safety briefing, watch a video, take a class, or take a test.
Suitable for someone with the no experience, or someone 18 years old that just bought a rifle and doesn't even know how to load it.
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This is a common problem that most of us have seen. How do we prevent it? Some ranges make you go through a safety briefing, watch a video, take a class, or take a test.
That's probably a good point Zippz. The city and county has other ID programs, like the golf one. DLNR has the hunters education program.
Perhaps what is needed is for any shooter at the range (in addition to signing the book) to either show their hunters education card or "range safety card" (class can be taken online similar to the hunter education classes offered)
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you a range officer? just curious. Of course ANYONE can yell at someone for doing something stupid like that.
It's always the noob shooters that you really need to watch and be careful for. Like the guys bringing their gfs for the first time, etc. Kinda always give these people the side eye for a while to make sure they aren't going to do something stupid. and no it's not because i'm checking out the gf. lol
I was an NRA RSO but I let my cert lapse in July. I usually go and talk to them afterward to explain. It’s just got that emergency call from my brother. I just lost my sister a month ago. I was afraid something else had happened. I just wish I had had the time to talk to them before they split.
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Yeah, doesn't matter if the bolt wasn't locked. Barrel of the gun shouldn't have strayed from being pointed down range. Many folks aren't used to the range rules and are more used to "doing what they want". I see quite often actually. Nothing like turning around in a shooting course and seeing a barrel of gun pointed in your direction.
Sounds like you're feeling bad about yelling at the guy, at least at the level that you did. You definitely have a lot going on and crappy to have that kind of experience ruin your "Inspector time" at the range where it should be a time for you to get away and clear your mind. Please don't let it get to you. You'll be sorely missed at the range.
Yeah I think you are right about that. I was quick to yell to yell at them like I did. It’s not like me to get angry like that that quickly. Everything has been getting to me I guess.
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I remember at the race tracks, they had a "dry run" for noobs. They would take you in a van and explain how to line up. But a noob wasn't know until to late. As in noobs were at the line waiting and didn't know the procedure (there were 6 lines waiting to race). So the guy running the line kicked them out and said go do the "dry run". But it's more embarrassing than anything else. After taking the dry run, when they put a number on your window, it was followed by a "N". So the line guy knew you were a noob, but took the dry run tutorial.
IDK how you would enforce or monitor if someone took the intro class or not at KHSC. Wear tags, or put your permit on the bench? That's why b4 I went for the 1st time, I posted on here asking what the rules and unwritten rules are.
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So mean. Im not shooting next to you
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I'm thinking get a bunch of tablets mounted next to the sign in roster and loop a subtitled safety video. See if the city will buy em or HRA or NRA could do a grant. Community can make the video.
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I’d rather be yelled at then accidentally shooting somebody. So yea, reaction was good Dave.
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I remember at the race tracks, they had a "dry run" for noobs. They would take you in a van and explain how to line up. But a noob wasn't know until to late. As in noobs were at the line waiting and didn't know the procedure (there were 6 lines waiting to race). So the guy running the line kicked them out and said go do the "dry run". But it's more embarrassing than anything else. After taking the dry run, when they put a number on your window, it was followed by a "N". So the line guy knew you were a noob, but took the dry run tutorial.
IDK how you would enforce or monitor if someone took the intro class or not at KHSC. Wear tags, or put your permit on the bench? That's why b4 I went for the 1st time, I posted on here asking what the rules and unwritten rules are.
just do it honor system style like how the sign ins are now. if someone cant show their card that they took the class, make em take it.
And could do it ghetto style as zippz suggests, have them watch a video on the side, then give em the card once they complete it.
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It's up to all of us to make sure that the range is safe and everyone complies with the range rules lest someone ends up hurt, or worse, dead, ruining it for the rest of us. The RO's can't be there all the time so we need to police our own and advise other if and when we see something that is dangerous. A kind word to your immediate neighbor or yelling at someone several stalls away are all acceptable responses depending on the circumstance. I have been fortunate to avoid being the target of someone's verbal chastisement during my early years but have seen others make mistakes and receive a strong reprimand or two. Don't know if it works for the rest of you but once I get yelled in public by an RO, I never forget.
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It's up to all of us to make sure that the range is safe and everyone complies with the range rules lest someone ends up hurt, or worse, dead, ruining it for the rest of us. The RO's can't be there all the time so we need to police our own and advise other if and when we see something that is dangerous. A kind word to your immediate neighbor or yelling at someone several stalls away are all acceptable responses depending on the circumstance. I have been fortunate to avoid being the target of someone's verbal chastisement during my early years but have seen others make mistakes and receive a strong reprimand or two. Don't know if it works for the rest of you but once I get yelled in public by an RO, I never forget.
RIP Sy.....
He yelled at me a couple of times. My wife, too. Actually, he yelled a lot. LOL!!!
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So mean. Im not shooting next to you
QUIT POINTING THAT THING AT ME!!!! :o :o :o
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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I remember at the race tracks, they had a "dry run" for noobs. They would take you in a van and explain how to line up. But a noob wasn't know until to late. As in noobs were at the line waiting and didn't know the procedure (there were 6 lines waiting to race). So the guy running the line kicked them out and said go do the "dry run". But it's more embarrassing than anything else. After taking the dry run, when they put a number on your window, it was followed by a "N". So the line guy knew you were a noob, but took the dry run tutorial.
IDK how you would enforce or monitor if someone took the intro class or not at KHSC. Wear tags, or put your permit on the bench? That's why b4 I went for the 1st time, I posted on here asking what the rules and unwritten rules are.
The mainland ranges I went to had a training video and briefing paper you signed acknowledging the rules and what things would get you ejected or banned. When you sign the form, it's good for a year. One range gave me a membership card, others did not.
When you arrive at the range, you have to be assigned a bench position number. Before the range manager assigns the bench, they look up your name and birthdate in their membership list. If they can't find you, you have to do the training.
There's no "honor system". To many, that means "if they don't catch me, I guess I'm good". If a card is issued, it's usually for your benefit, so you know when the annual refresher training is due, or if you believe the list is wrong.
It's easy to have a tablet for the RSO to find your name/birthdate.
As for cost, I think it would be appropriate to charge each range guest $2 to defray the costs of hardware and software for the training. Since there's no range fee, I don't see a problem paying $2/year to make sure everyone knows the rules.
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I dont trust giving my money to the City. If it stays in the range and for the range OK
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I've been yelled at by Sy once. It was one of the first few times that I went to the rifle range. I grabbed my drink off of the bench as I came back from changing my target. I usually got one of the first few benches to the right of the office and that put me pretty much right in front of Sy and he saw it. Never did that again.
I've seen Sy go ballistic a couple of times and IMO, all were warranted. One was when a guy was sitting on the benches behind the line while waiting for a bench to open up. He opened his rifle case, took out a rifle (I believe to show his buddy the gun) and in the process pointed the muzzle directly at Sy! :o And the makai half of the firing line. IIRC, Sy ran over there (as best as Sy could run), grabbed the rifle out of the guys hands and gave him an earful. I heard something about Sy had warned him previously. Sy kicked the guy off the range after that.
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I dont trust giving my money to the City. If it stays in the range and for the range OK
it will not stay in the range, that's not the way the city funding works. that's also why i would be against an everyday range fee. Any money collected goes back to the city general fund to be spent on whatever they feel like. And even if the funds did godirectly towards the range, they can just short fund what they're putting into the range by the amount you put into it. Say if the city normally puts $100/year into the range, but now they collect $50 in fees from range goers; instead of still putting in $100 (making the total amount going towards range funding $150), they can cut their funding by $50, leaving it at $100.
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The Clark County shooting complex makes you watch a 15 minute safety video and then you have to present a card at each visit to show that you watched the video. They also charge eight dollars per person at the range but might be more now.
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We're dealing with guns.
Yell Dave Yell. :thumbsup:
(I got yelled at by Sy a few times in my early days)
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its funny how whenever someone gets yelled at (not you), they always have the deer in the headlights look on their face.
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It happens quite often, either that or going front on the yellow line. Most common is get stuff off the bench durning a crease fire. It's said over the PA to grab things needed to repair target prior to crease fire. There is always someone going to the bench to get targets or staple gun.
There is a notice at the sign in log book to read the range rules and it is announced on the loud speaker what is expected.
Guess people hear but either not listening or it was for the other guy.
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it will not stay in the range, that's not the way the city funding works. that's also why i would be against an everyday range fee. Any money collected goes back to the city general fund to be spent on whatever they feel like. And even if the funds did godirectly towards the range, they can just short fund what they're putting into the range by the amount you put into it. Say if the city normally puts $100/year into the range, but now they collect $50 in fees from range goers; instead of still putting in $100 (making the total amount going towards range funding $150), they can cut their funding by $50, leaving it at $100.
Even worse, is once you realize that it's the C&C of Honolulu. That "$2" will quickly become $28($1.00 for the cost of the printing of the card, and $27 for administrative fees, etc).
But first they have to pay an outside company(approx $1.2Million) to perform a study to make sure the new system would be feasible...
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Even worse, is once you realize that it's the C&C of Honolulu. That "$2" will quickly become $28($1.00 for the cost of the printing of the card, and $27 for administrative fees, etc).
But first they have to pay an outside company(approx $1.2Million) to perform a study to make sure the new system would be feasible...
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EXACTLY!
especially the part about the million dollar feasibility study....I've seen that many times.
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I’d rather be yelled at then accidentally shooting somebody. So yea, reaction was good Dave.
I agree.
I have left the range because of things that were going on around me.
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Once, I yelled at myself when I accidentally crossed the yellow line. Can't be too safe now days.
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Once, I yelled at myself when I accidentally crossed the yellow line. Can't be too safe now days.
If I heard a guy yelling at himself, I'd be wondering if the homeless had moved to the range
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Once, I yelled at myself when I accidentally crossed the yellow line. Can't be too safe now days.
On the bright side, you probably had that side of the range to yourself after your neighbors took notice :shake:
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True story
A few months ago everyone was "yelling" at the RO because he gave the "range is hot" while I was still at the 100 yard line.
I didn't mind since no one started shooting.
"Running" back to the tables I was worried about taking a tumble in front of everyone.
It was kind of flattering to be so "skinny" that he didn't see me. My wife doesn't believe it. I can understand why when I look in the mirror
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True story
A few months ago everyone was "yelling" at the RO because he gave the "range is hot" while I was still at the 100 yard line.
I didn't mind since no one started shooting.
"Running" back to the tables I was worried about taking a tumble in front of everyone.
It was kind of flattering to be so "skinny" that he didn't see me. My wife doesn't believe it. I can understand why when I look in the mirror
is this what you were wearing?
(http://)
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I remember that
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True story
A few months ago everyone was "yelling" at the RO because he gave the "range is hot" while I was still at the 100 yard line.
I can see it now; "Is everybody back?!........<silence>, <silence>,<crickets chirping><people waiting around to see what's going to happen to the skinny guy running faster than Usain back to the tables>.......Range is hot!"
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I dont trust giving my money to the City. If it stays in the range and for the range OK
I'll run it by Kirkwell. Might be a good source of additional revenue for rail.
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True story
A few months ago everyone was "yelling" at the RO because he gave the "range is hot" while I was still at the 100 yard line.
I didn't mind since no one started shooting.
"Running" back to the tables I was worried about taking a tumble in front of everyone.
It was kind of flattering to be so "skinny" that he didn't see me. My wife doesn't believe it. I can understand why when I look in the mirror
I remember that as well. I kept getting on the RO's about needing glasses.
The worst part is one of our members didn't hear us yelling at him that the line was NOT hot after all. He did sit down at his bench and was getting ready to load his rifle when we finally got through to him. :shake: :shake: :shake:
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^
Call for a cease fire? hindsight 20/20, but even if the RO and your friend didn't know what was going on, they should respect the cease fire.
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That happened to me last year while I was at the 50 yard line. The RO asked if everyone was back and I yelled, "No!"
Months later, a guy ran out to set his target while the range was hot. I yelled "cease fire!" The RO told the guy that next time he does that, make sure to wear a target on your back to make it interesting. True story...
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Took a friend of mine up into the mountains on the mainland to shoot clays on public land. Gave him the rundown on the shotgun, showed him how to load it, operate it, etc... and I bent over to tie my shoe laces, when I stood up, my left eye was staring down the barrel of a loaded 12 gauge, I think I yelled every 4 letter word in the book at him
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For a few Sunday afternoons there be some loud announcements “GET BEHIND THE LINE” or “AWAY FROM THE BENCH”
By the RO’s!
Play Safe!
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a couple years ago on the pistol side had a guy lay his target stand on the ground behind the berm and was doing some repairs to it during the cease fire and kneeling down so he cant be seen
everyone was back except him, but couldn't see him behind the berm. RSO says "line is hot"
then the guy stands up and RSO goes "cease fire! hey you ****ing dummy. don't ever bend down behind the berm again. we can't see you!"
I forget the exact 4 letter words that were used, but the RSO was pissed.
better to be pissed off, than pissed on. that's what I always say :D
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Rklapp - damn you must be really skinny if the RO couldn't see you at the 50
Must have been a really slow day for that guy to have thought about walking on to a hot range. Was everyone else on the other side of the range and no one on his side?
That he had a target stand makes me think he wasn't a completely new shooter. New guys usually go with old farts to set target stands.
Last month I felt bad about a new guy that was using an uzi. I guess uzi's don't have a bho ...sounded like another shooter was gassing him for not using a spend case to keep the bolt back....i suspect it was the inspector :-)
I'm glad that guy isn't a RO. The RO's are pretty nice....even when they have yelled at your group twice for trying to get things on the table during the cease fire. The RO came by after and calmly said the 3rd time it happens and our group would be kicked out. (Wasn't me)
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Must have been a really slow day for that guy to have thought about walking on to a hot range. Was everyone else on the other side of the range and no one on his side?
That he had a target stand makes me think he wasn't a completely new shooter. New guys usually go with old farts to set target stands.
it happens as some people don't read the range rules before setting up
just as some pedestrians don't look both ways before crossing a street
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Last month I felt bad about a new guy that was using an uzi. I guess uzi's don't have a bho ...sounded like another shooter was gassing him for not using a spend case to keep the bolt back....i suspect it was the inspector :-)
I wish I could take credit for it. But it wasn't me. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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it happens as some people don't read the range rules before setting up
just as some pedestrians don't look both ways before crossing a street
Or some just are getting to damn old...
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Rklapp - damn you must be really skinny if the RO couldn't see you at the 50
Must have been a really slow day for that guy to have thought about walking on to a hot range. Was everyone else on the other side of the range and no one on his side?
That he had a target stand makes me think he wasn't a completely new shooter. New guys usually go with old farts to set target stands.
Um... no. :shaka:
It was later in the day and there were just a few of us on the sides. There was a lull in the firing and I guess the guy thought it was breaktime. At other ranges, they have a red flag that they pull out when the range is hot. I can't remember but don't they have it at the pistol range?
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How can you tell an RO is an RO?
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You mean other than the hi-vis vest? OTOH, Mike is Mike and can wear whatever he wants.
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a couple years ago on the pistol side had a guy lay his target stand on the ground behind the berm and was doing some repairs to it during the cease fire and kneeling down so he cant be seen
everyone was back except him, but couldn't see him behind the berm. RSO says "line is hot"
then the guy stands up and RSO goes "cease fire! hey you ****ing dummy. don't ever bend down behind the berm again. we can't see you!"
I forget the exact 4 letter words that were used, but the RSO was pissed.
better to be pissed off, than pissed on. that's what I always say :D
Wow! O.o Not sure what I would do in that case, but I don't think I'd stand up. Maybe wave my target above the berm. :shake:
Haha. I tell that to one of my buddies all the time. Usually when he's pissed off (not at me). He mostly doesn't find it amusing. ;D
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I remember when I got a new shotgun and couldn't wait to show my veteran friend. Pulled it out of the case and turned around an was about to hand it to him. Then he calmly looked me in the eye and said "you just swept me" and a chill rand down through my spine. He could have shouted or cursed, but it would have lost the effect. They way he said it left me cold and I'll remember that lesson for the rest of my life.
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Its easy to have a brain fart when your excited
My friend has twice swept me showing the new upgrades on her rifle. I just took it away and put it on the table. She was so happy with her upgrades that I couldn't bring myself to say anything.
She shoots with her husband and knows better when she is "normal"
Than you have the Darwin Award nominees. Im reloading mags...my side facing the range and hear the RSO saying "you might want to point that down range". I turn around and see a long arm that had been pointing at my back.
I told my friend and he said the RSO's yelled at the same guy about 1-2 months earlier for looking down the smoking barrel of his rifle....
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granted sweeping someone with a firearm isn't good, especially at the range where you're supposed to be facing muzzles downrange only. But if you're showing a friend a firearm at home or something, and you conspicuously clear the firearm first and lock the bolt before handing over or show them the gun, it's not too bad. Especially if both of you have the common sense to maintain trigger discipline.
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granted sweeping someone with a firearm isn't good, especially at the range where you're supposed to be facing muzzles downrange only. But if you're showing a friend a firearm at home or something, and you conspicuously clear the firearm first and lock the bolt before handing over or show them the gun, it's not too bad. Especially if both of you have the common sense to maintain trigger discipline.
Not trying to start an argument here. Nor do I want to get into how one has been trained in safe gun handling. And how one practices safe gun handling. So I will just state how I was trained.
When I was around 8-10 years old (Mid to late 60's) my father took me to a 3 or 4 evening class put on by the NRA that dealt with life safety issues. The class dealt with items like what to do if you get lost while hiking or camping, proper use and handling of knives, how to deal with snake bites and of course how to safely handle firearms. This course also included how to shoot and culminated in live fire and activities for young people.
I was trained that while handling a firearm, you open the cylinder or rack the slide and prop it open so you can see it is unloaded. If it is loaded, unload it. In other words it is not enough to just see an open cylinder and slide I won't get into the specific reasons for why as I am sure some here will want to debate these reasons. However, I was also taught a couple of things. Like never accept a firearm that you cannot visually see has an open cylinder or has an open slide. But the gun is still considered loaded until it is in your physical posession and you visually check that it is in fact unloaded. Another thing they were adamant about was once that firearm left your posession you consider that firearm loaded. Combine this with never pointing a gun at anything you don't intend to shoot then sweeping someone with an unloaded gun is unacceptable. Under any circumstances. Which also means allowing oneself to be swept is also unacceptable under any circumstances IMHO.
I understand that this was a long time ago (50 years) so maybe gun safety rules and training have changed over the years. I don't know. Maybe one of the certified NRA instructors here can update me on the more recent gun safety practices.
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Those are all normal firearm safety rules. Slide back alone isn't good enough if there's a loaded mag. Slide slams shut accidentally, gun is now loaded. One can never be too careful, all I'm saying is that there are degrees to "badness". A bolt action without a bolt isn't going to fire, nor is a handgun with a lock run through it's slide, etc. There are a lot of situations id feel more comfortable with than some random guy swinging their firearm around at the range
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granted sweeping someone with a firearm isn't good, especially at the range where you're supposed to be facing muzzles downrange only. But if you're showing a friend a firearm at home or something, and you conspicuously clear the firearm first and lock the bolt before handing over or show them the gun, it's not too bad. Especially if both of you have the common sense to maintain trigger discipline.
This can create bad habits and second, never trust anyone when it comes to firearms safety, even a good friend. The only time you point a gun at someone is if you are about to defend yourself or you're practicing self-defense scenarios where you have trained personnel, safety procedures, and safety equipment.
This famous DEA agent made sure his gun was unloaded, then had his partner verify his gun was unloaded. Then violated all of the safety rules. Didn't work out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxWWJaTEdD0
I've been going to Honolulu Firearms and Range now that I got a membership there. They seem to allow uncasing and holstering guns in the waiting area. I see a lot of safety violations.
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Also my coworker was shot in her house by someone with an "unloaded" gun.
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I believe that it's the unloaded firearm that is actually the most dangerous of all.
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This famous DEA agent made sure his gun was unloaded, then had his partner verify his gun was unloaded. Then violated all of the safety rules. Didn't work out.
And I bet if he had a cable lock run through the slide and magazine well, that accident would not have occurred. There are different levels of safety and stupidity. The safest thing to do is to make the presentation without the firearm or if you must show a firearm because it's "cool", permanently disable one for exhibition purposes, then VERIFY you're using the disabled firearm before presenting. For a presentation, all you need is the shell of a pistol, not your functioning every day carry weapon.
In my opinion, in a classroom setting where there literally is no safe place to point the firearm except straight up or down (luckily he picked down lol), there should have been no firearm display at all. That situation goes far beyond "sweeping someone" at the range or at home, as pretty much any direction you're pointing is going to be at someone. When I was a kid, I've been on these "war on drugs" type of presentations where the cops show off their ARs and whatnot to try to impress an auditorium packed full of kids. To me, that is just stupid.
I've been going to Honolulu Firearms and Range now that I got a membership there. They seem to allow uncasing and holstering guns in the waiting area. I see a lot of safety violations.
ugh, that's a bad idea cause if you uncase and holster weapons there at the waiting table, you're pointing the guns at the back of people shooting at the range.
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When I went to Honolulu firearms a while ago to look around, I don't recall noticing an rso
There may have been an rso but maybe he was taking a break since there was an outside instructor running a class to get a handgun permit.
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#MeToo
I yelled too - but they didn't listen
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Not trying to start an argument here. Nor do I want to get into how one has been trained in safe gun handling. And how one practices safe gun handling. So I will just state how I was trained.
When I was around 8-10 years old (Mid to late 60's) my father took me to a 3 or 4 evening class put on by the NRA that dealt with life safety issues. The class dealt with items like what to do if you get lost while hiking or camping, proper use and handling of knives, how to deal with snake bites and of course how to safely handle firearms. This course also included how to shoot and culminated in live fire and activities for young people.
I was trained that while handling a firearm, you open the cylinder or rack the slide and prop it open so you can see it is unloaded. If it is loaded, unload it. In other words it is not enough to just see an open cylinder and slide I won't get into the specific reasons for why as I am sure some here will want to debate these reasons. However, I was also taught a couple of things. Like never accept a firearm that you cannot visually see has an open cylinder or has an open slide. But the gun is still considered loaded until it is in your physical posession and you visually check that it is in fact unloaded. Another thing they were adamant about was once that firearm left your posession you consider that firearm loaded. Combine this with never pointing a gun at anything you don't intend to shoot then sweeping someone with an unloaded gun is unacceptable. Under any circumstances. Which also means allowing oneself to be swept is also unacceptable under any circumstances IMHO.
I understand that this was a long time ago (50 years) so maybe gun safety rules and training have changed over the years. I don't know. Maybe one of the certified NRA instructors here can update me on the more recent gun safety practices.
No worry, main rules (4) will remain the same as long as the projectiles still exit the muzzle.
:wave:
Actually, the reason I became an NRA instructor was because of my first experiences at the Hawaii range. :shake:
Got swept more than a floor at a bar with free peanuts ! :crazy:
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When I went to Honolulu firearms a while ago to look around, I don't recall noticing an rso
There may have been an rso but maybe he was taking a break since there was an outside instructor running a class to get a handgun permit.
They don't have an official RSO (guy standing there all day). But they know the regulars and when someone comes in who isn't one, they watch more closely usually.
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I understand that this was a long time ago (50 years) so maybe gun safety rules and training have changed over the years. I don't know. Maybe one of the certified NRA instructors here can update me on the more recent gun safety practices.
Basic rules still the same.
ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction. This is the primary rule of gun safety. ...
ALWAYS keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot. ...
ALWAYS keep the gun unloaded until ready to use.
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I haven’t been to Honolulu Firearms in a long time, but saw some scary stuff last time so was there. While waiting for the range to free up, I saw the guys in one lane pointing their guns directly at the dividing wall and the guys on the other side was none the wiser. Ever seen the holes in that divider?
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Damn!
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#MeToo
I yelled too - but they didn't listen
Mitch said that some people asked if they could catch the chickens and eat them. He said you don't want to eat those chickens... they're full of lead.
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They don't have an official RSO (guy standing there all day). But they know the regulars and when someone comes in who isn't one, they watch more closely usually.
I have had the same experience there, I go there periodically. Once i was shooting there and one of the workers was watching through the glass window. One of the shooters was drawing from a shoulder holster. He quickly entered and stopped that. I was glad he did. Basic rules still the same.
ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction. This is the primary rule of gun safety. ...
ALWAYS keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot. ...
ALWAYS keep the gun unloaded until ready to use.
This!!
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Basic rules still the same.
ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction. This is the primary rule of gun safety. ...
ALWAYS keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot. ...
ALWAYS keep the gun unloaded until ready to use.
NRA's version...
1. ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.
2. ALWAYS keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.
3. ALWAYS keep the gun unloaded until ready to use.
The last one of either is a toughy if in CCW/HD mode.]
My version is
1. Treat all firearms as if they are loaded ( nobody likes being swept, even with an "Empty Gun". :shake:
Besides, it' sets precedent for a bad habit. :crazy:
2. Never point a firearm at something you are not willing to destroy. :o
3. Keep your finger off of the trigger until ready to shoot. (confirmed target). :worship:
4. Know your target and what is behind it or could be possibly moving in front of or behind it. :thumbsup:
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3. ALWAYS keep the gun unloaded until ready to use.
The last one of either is a toughy if in CCW/HD mode.]
I consider self defense as being in use.