2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: Shaba on March 02, 2012, 12:03:45 AM
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Went to the pistol range the other day and was bombarded with a face full of brass!! Some shooters have no courteousy or just plain naive. It's frustrating to practice while being sprayed with brass after traveling from the westside in traffic!!! :grrr:
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Thats why you need a Walther P-38 because it throws brass to the left!
The law of the land is know where the brass from the the shooter next to you is going and stay clear of it.
Rude but thats the way Ive always known to be since I was shooting there.
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buy them some heavier springs
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I'll have to look into the p38 just to piss people off, in the mean time, can i shoot to the right of you. ;D
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The law of the land is know where the brass from the the shooter next to you is going and stay clear of it.
Rude but thats the way Ive always known to be since I was shooting there.
yup
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Not to offend anyone but brass doesn't really bother me.
If it bothers you, bring a brass screen and set it up to the left of you... Problem solved.
I kind of like getting showered with occasional brass and the guys who fire 50 bmg's with the muzzle brakes that clear both benches on either side of them.
Helps with concentration under adverse conditions.
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I'll have to look into the p38 just to piss people off, in the mean time, can i shoot to the right of you. ;D
Sure but I have more that 1 pistol. My right kickers....1911 9mm, Luger, Walther PPK...
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But do you have a net? lol. Seriously, its just annoying and I wanted other shooters to be aware. I didn't say anything just because it isn't a rule. But another shooter was mad and voiced his opinion rather loudly. Don't need road rage at the range.
i
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Hopefully one day they will install proper dividers. The silouette side started installing screens.
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I don't like brass hitting me while I'm concentrating on the targets in front of me but what can you do? The pistol range is sometimes shoulder-to-shoulder and its impossible to prevent flying shells from hitting you unless dividers are erected. I think its just one of those things that you'll have to get used to.
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But do you have a net? lol. Seriously, its just annoying and I wanted other shooters to be aware. I didn't say anything just because it isn't a rule. But another shooter was mad and voiced his opinion rather loudly. Don't need road rage at the range.
All we need now is MORE restrictions at KHSC. Think your annoyed now? What happens when you have lug around some piss poor design of a brass screen. Don't like it? Move to a position on your left.
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As far as I'm concerned, getting hit with an occasional eject is part of the game. That's why you wear a broad-brimmed hat (or a baseball cap backwards) and button your collar.
Before I started using a shooting jacket during high-power matches, a .30-06 out of the M1 from the guy to my left went down my shirt. Not fun at all, and I had a hard time managing my muzzle direction during this episode. It's called the Brass Dance. I learned my lesson, and it dawned on me why so many of the experienced shooters wore campaign hats. It wasn't for "style."
Truly it is said... "The match goes to the one who solves his problems best."
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Containment of the flying shells over on the rifle range side is much more manageable then on the pistol side since most shooters are seated. My experience is that the ROs are aware of the problem and try to mitigate against it whenever reasonably possible by encouraging shooters to put something between themselves and the next table like bags or wooden targets. IMO, getting hit with a hot casing from a .223 is much more distracting, then say from a 9mm round.
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As far as I'm concerned, getting hit with an occasional eject is part of the game. That's why you wear a broad-brimmed hat (or a baseball cap backwards) and button your collar.
Before I started using a shooting jacket during high-power matches, a .30-06 out of the M1 from the guy to my left went down my shirt. Not fun at all, and I had a hard time managing my muzzle direction during this episode. It's called the Brass Dance. I learned my lesson, and it dawned on me why so many of the experienced shooters wore campaign hats. It wasn't for "style."
Truly it is said... "The match goes to the one who solves his problems best."
I agree. It's part of the game. I have brass catchers for both pistol and rifle. I've gotten pelted with brass before and I don't think people are doing it on purpose. I've found that M1As and M1 Garands are the worst at sending brass flying one or two stalls down.
I've also had a few brass that has settled in my collar. Left a pretty good burn a couple of times.
Once, my buddy was shooting his Colt AR and it was shooting brass at 3 o'clock. We didn't have a net that time and the guy to our right was getting pissed. He would stop and stare at my friend while he was shooting. Our other friend told us about that later. If he had politely said something, maybe we could've put up something to block the brass. But instead, he was getting all mad and was even throwing the brass back at us.
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As I've said elsewhere, I'm in favor of dividers between stations. I'd like to see that even on the silhouette side, where the design allows overcrowding to dangerous levels.
I try to be a courteous neighbor, but realistically, there's not much you can do to contain brass from some firearms. My Garand and my 1911 both throw brass nearly straight up, with a rightward inclination. The Garand actually bounces brass off the ceiling. No way a little sit-on-the-table net or range bag is going to impede that trajectory.
I've drawn up a design for a lightweight, portable net system that hangs from spring-loaded clamps from the ceiling joists. I figure it'll cost about $40 to make, and add maybe 2 lbs to my load in. If I ever get around to building it, though, I'll use it on my left side!
I do take full precautions when I go shooting. Brass has a hard time getting to my skin. That doesn't stop it from bouncing off me, though.
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This is almost always an issue with only the new shooters. The older guys just accept that brass is part of it.
I for one do not believe that we should need brass catchers.
If you go to the range it is your responsibility to be properly attired. To me this means closed shoes, glasses and ear protection at a minimum. If you come to the range and get burnt because you stepped on something with your slippers..........too bad (wear shoes). If something went down your blouse..........too bad (get a friggen shirt that buttons up). If something lands on your head..........too bad (wear a hat/cap).
The only way I would comply with this BS is if someone said my firearm was too loud and I need to stick a suppressor on it.............I would comply in a heartbeat.
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Oh my gosh some hot brass hit me at the range. How inconsiderate! I'm going to sit in my new SUV with the air conditioning and leather seats and text my therapist.
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Oh my gosh some hot brass hit me at the range. How inconsiderate! I'm going to sit in my new SUV with the air conditioning and leather seats and text my therapist.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Oh my gosh some hot brass hit me at the range. How inconsiderate! I'm going to sit in my new SUV with the air conditioning and leather seats and text my therapist.
.............holy crap....................... :rofl:
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"Should brass catchers be mandatory?"
NO.
JMHO guns kick out brass folks get hit... It happens.
That's why we wear safety glasses and hats.
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:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Ditto.
By the way, welcome aboard, Shaba! Don't let the comments about it being "part of the glorious shooting experience" ;D bother you. It's a perfectly legitimate question, but as you can see, most of us have grown used to it and just take it as part of life, like oil changes.
The match goes to those who solve their problems best.
Terry, 230RN :)
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I would love to see a cheap and viable option for a pistol brass catcher that doesn't attach to the gun, must be adjustable, and break down for transport.
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I would love to see a cheap and viable option for a pistol brass catcher that doesn't attach to the gun, must be adjustable, and break down for transport.
Fishing net and a C-clamp!
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graco brass catcher, for pistols
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nah, if a brass catcher was mandatory, guys like me who use one, wouldn't look "considerate" :wave:
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I thought long and hard on this one and came up with an ingenious solution to those irritating flying brass shells which doesn't rely on the shooter or any fancy doohickie brass catcher thingamajigs.
http://www.beekeepingstarterkit.com/files/1844535/uploaded/V01090-Alexander-Veil.jpg (http://www.beekeepingstarterkit.com/files/1844535/uploaded/V01090-Alexander-Veil.jpg)
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This is my ghetto gunbox set up. Fishnet with handle flattened and clamped to ammo box. Window scope mount and spotting scope. ammo, and even pistol fits inside. Cheap strong and I can still catch live bait for fishing.
Brass catchers show that you are a considerate shooter.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Inconsiderate shooters make prospective new gun owners and competitors feel unwelcome. This causes our numbers to dwindle and eventually errodes our rights when the general public sees us as uncouth elitists with dangerous weapons. Rant and rave all you like. When someone gets hurt by flying brass, sues the city, and shuts down our only public range, it will be too late to think" Maybe I should be nice and use a brass catcher".
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Inconsiderate shooters make prospective new gun owners and competitors feel unwelcome. This causes our numbers to dwindle and eventually errodes our rights when the general public sees us as uncouth elitists with dangerous weapons. Rant and rave all you like. When someone gets hurt by flying brass, sues the city, and shuts down our only public range, it will be too late to think" Maybe I should be nice and use a brass catcher".
+1 When I shoot a semiauto on the rifle range, I bring a large cardboard box and set it to the right of the rifle to catch the brass. Plus, that makes it easier to police your brass afterwards, especially if you want to save it to reload.
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Sure it's irritating and yes I've gotten mad before, but it's part of the game. I can't count the many times I've been burned by hot brass while in the Marine Corps. The worst ones I've had was landing in the back of my collar on my cammies while in the prone. But the most common ones was the ones that when up my sleeves. Don't ask me how, I guess if I explain that I like to keep my sleeves partially rolled up may help but somehow they always got in there burning my forearms.
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Should they be mandatory? No. Would it be appreciated if you did use one? Yes.
I'd rather deal with the hassle of bringing one then fling a hot brass at someone who then flinches or jumps up with a loaded gun and accidentally shoots me. Should you have one and the guy next to you is tossing hot brass at you, set yours up to protect yourself. So whether I'm shooting bolt gun or ar, I figure its better to bring the screen than not to.
Thinking its kinda like the target stand situation.
Should you bring one? Yes. Should it be mandatory? No.
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I use one on the rifle side. And if I'm sitting on the silhouette side I'll used the screen on tope of my bag. But if I'm standing.. nothing I can do about that. I've never been burnt because I wear appropriate clothing. Like King said, I actually like the distraction of the flying brass and muzzle blast, because it helps me concentrate. My son has actually learned to shoot while brass is flying around. He got burned once, but since then he wears tight fitting long sleeve shirts and it hasn't happened since.
More of an annoyance is when only 3 of the 20 shooters go to fix the targets. Once, there were about 10 shooters, and it was my son, another guy, and me were the only ones that went out to reset the targets. While out there, I suggested to the other guy not to fix targets on the next cease fire. He agreed and when the time came. No one went out. It was frickin unbelievable. Maybe the newbies don't know? Or is it "ainokea"? I don't think so though, because the local looking people usually go out. It's my observation and I could be wrong, but it's usually the younger crowd that doesn't do shit.
Rant over. :stopjack:
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More of an annoyance is when only 3 of the 20 shooters go to fix the targets . . . No one went out.
Maybe they got nothing to fix? ::)
:stopjack: I use a net for both rifle & handgun since: 1) no need police my brass, 2) don't want my brass flying into someone else's face/body, and 3) I reload (even though I was using the net before I started reloading).
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Maybe they got nothing to fix? ::)
+1
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Maybe they got nothing to fix? ::)
Hahaha ya I figured the people who don't go out probably missed the cardboard or don't have a spotting scope so they have no idea what they hit anyway.
I'm a new shooter (started in Dec 2011) and I thought flying brass was kinda annoying at first but then I figured that I probably hit people with my flying brass too so it's just part of the experience. I also share the same opinion as KK in that I use it as a way to focus through distractions, much in the same way that I studied while my sister practiced her bassoon at home. The reason I don't use a brass catcher is because I always figured only the guys who reload use it and I don't reload, no space in my apt.
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+1
good point. but i was referring to the silhouette range.
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I'm always leery about anything being mandatory.
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but i was referring to the silhouette range.
That would be annoying at the least. :grrr:
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guns kick out brass folks get hit... It happens.
That's why we wear safety glasses and hats.
My thoughts exactly.
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Inconsiderate shooters make prospective new gun owners and competitors feel unwelcome. This causes our numbers to dwindle and eventually errodes our rights when the general public sees us as uncouth elitists with dangerous weapons. Rant and rave all you like. When someone gets hurt by flying brass, sues the city, and shuts down our only public range, it will be too late to think" Maybe I should be nice and use a brass catcher".
I've gotten into this with abunaitoo before.
If you truly believe it is dangerous then the folks coming to the range should have mandatory covered footwear, long pants, and long sleeve shirts at a minimum. If you truly believe brass to be that kind of danger, then it is your duty to write to the C&C and advise them of this inherent, immediate and present danger to the public.
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I would love to see a cheap and viable option for a pistol brass catcher that doesn't attach to the gun, must be adjustable, and break down for transport.
All the C&C needs to do is run some lumber from front to back of the positions. From there a couple of c-clamps or other plus a bedsheet would work.
..........................More of an annoyance is when only 3 of the 20 shooters go to fix the targets. Once, there were about 10 shooters, and it was my son, another guy, and me were the only ones that went out to reset the targets. While out there, I suggested to the other guy not to fix targets on the next cease fire. He agreed and when the time came. No one went out. It was frickin unbelievable. Maybe the newbies don't know? Or is it "ainokea"? I don't think so though, because the local looking people usually go out. It's my observation and I could be wrong, but it's usually the younger crowd that doesn't do shit.
Rant over. :stopjack:
I never set up targets at the silhouette side, but then again I never shoot at the small targets only the large plates. With regards to the other guys shooting 22lr and not setting up targets I think it's probably a mix of don't care and don't know. Same thing as when you are driving on the road with these same guys.
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good point. but i was referring to the silhouette range.
As was I.
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Flying brass is like going to the beach and getting sand up your shorts. Sometimes it rubs you the wrong way and sometimes it even hurts. But then, you shake it off and keep going. :P
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I've gotten into this with abunaitoo before.
If you truly believe it is dangerous then the folks coming to the range should have mandatory covered footwear, long pants, and long sleeve shirts at a minimum. If you truly believe brass to be that kind of danger, then it is your duty to write to the C&C and advise them of this inherent, immediate and present danger to the public.
I believe that we as shooters should police our own ranks.
If we write to the City and County about the unsafe condition and they close the range, then what? Wait for C&C to build booths or barriers? Let us say we write to C&C and they do nothing, and someone gets hurt. They will get sued for operating with an identified unsafe condition and shut down the range.
Safety is the major factor in all firearms related training or recreational activities. We should remind shooters to stay behind the yellow line for safety, not just because someone will yell at you. Watch the new shooters on how they operate their rifles and pistols and let them know the posted procedures for the range and instruct on shooter ettiquette. Police up your brass and trash. .
I personally bring extra eye protection, earplugs, hats, and a extra long sleeve shirt for people I train or even strangers that are new shooters that have obvious deficiencies or cleavage.
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Flying brass is like going to the beach and getting sand up your shorts. Sometimes it rubs you the wrong way and sometimes it even hurts. But then, you shake it off and keep going. :P
Same thing with making love in a hayloft. Except you don't wear shorts. But you keep going no matter what.
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IMHO:
If someone has a catcher, great. If not, that's cool. Unless his gun's brass is zeroed on my head and we can't work something out, It doesn't really bother me. I have a net because I reload. I must think its funny whenever a case slips down my shirt cuz I always end up laughing :crazy:
That being said, my AK's make it rain off the metal roof on the rifle range. Unless the partition is floor to ceiling, it won't stop the rain.
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"Should brass catchers be mandatory?"
Of course!!! Just as seat belts and helmets are required. Everyone knows that we NEED the government to pass laws "for our own good" since we are incapable of taking care of ourselves.
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that have obvious deficiencies or cleavage.
I hope that you are not saying that cleavage is a deficiency?
Seriously though, I hear what you are saying and for the most part I agree. It is unfortunately that we live in such a litigious society that someone getting burned by hot brass at a shooting range creates concern regarding the possibility of a lawsuite. :-\
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I wasn't going to post, but what the hell-
I've lived in a half dozen states, been to 3 times as many ranges and have never seen mandatory brass catchers. While we need to be courteous to others, be responsible stewards and foster new shooters into the sport, some of this stuff is just getting way too politically correct for me.
What are we going to complain about next, it's too hot, we need fans .....it's too far to walk out to the target, we need auto returns.......it's too bright, we need more shade.....it's too loud, well I would agree with needing a suppressor, but you get the point.
A lot of this stuff sounds like my 6 year old daughter, but even she is harder than that and knows to expect brass from a gun!
All the analogies already posted I agree with; if you don't like sand, don't go to the beach, if you don't like hay, get off the farmers daughter and if you don't like brass don't go to the range.
Bottom line- brass catchers are nice, but not needed. Be courteous to your fellow shooters and keep the mandatory items to true safety concerns.
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I am not saying that brass catchers should be mandatory. But if you know you boomstick is tossing hot brass directly at another shooter, do something to mitigate the hazard - brass catcher, shooting stool, cardboard box, ect. It's plain good manners.
I run ranges at Puuloa. Per Marines...No covered footwear = no shoot. Per NRA/CMP...No Muzzle breakes on rifles - side blasts disturb other shooters. Per National Guard....No helmet and body armor = no shoot.
Rules vary with every organization.
Range users should abide by the rules of that particular range and organization running it, be safe, and at least attempt to be polite.
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I hope that you are not saying that cleavage is a deficiency?
Seriously though, I hear what you are saying and for the most part I agree. It is unfortunately that we live in such a litigious society that someone getting burned by hot brass at a shooting range creates concern regarding the possibility of a lawsuite. :-\
I have not seen any liability waivers or "Hold Harmless" agreements other that the Silhouette Range.
Cleavage is not a deficiency, but it is a magnet for hot brass whether it is on the top front or bottom rear.
Deficiency = clothing that fails to protect sensitive areas, tissue paper instead of approved hearing protection or eye wear so dark that new shooters look over the top of the lenses rather than through it.
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Brass catcher at 0:17 ;D
Hot shell down shirt (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAEGkf-Unnk#ws)
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nice set of brass catchers on her
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I wasn't going to post, but what the hell-
I've lived in a half dozen states, been to 3 times as many ranges and have never seen mandatory brass catchers. While we need to be courteous to others, be responsible stewards and foster new shooters into the sport, some of this stuff is just getting way too politically correct for me.
What are we going to complain about next, it's too hot, we need fans .....it's too far to walk out to the target, we need auto returns.......it's too bright, we need more shade.....it's too loud, well I would agree with needing a suppressor, but you get the point.
A lot of this stuff sounds like my 6 year old daughter, but even she is harder than that and knows to expect brass from a gun!
All the analogies already posted I agree with; if you don't like sand, don't go to the beach, if you don't like hay, get off the farmers daughter and if you don't like brass don't go to the range.
Bottom line- brass catchers are nice, but not needed. Be courteous to your fellow shooters and keep the mandatory items to true safety concerns.
+1
If you're too sensitive to brass hitting you occasionally, then don't go to the damn range.
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reminds me of the thing a lot of surfers have about doing sharp turns in proximity to each other so that it throws a big bucket of spray on other people. in some states/countries it's grounds to get a smashed windshield or fistfight. come on guys, you know everyone out here is wet already right?
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Flying brass is like going to the beach and getting sand up your shorts. Sometimes it rubs you the wrong way and sometimes it even hurts. But then, you shake it off and keep going. :P
No, flying brass is like people at the beach kicking sand at you. It's not inherent in the venue.
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one time at the silhouette range a 22lr brass flew behind the tongue of my shoe burning a nice dime size circle on my ankle. know what i did?..... wore long pants the next time.
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we can all agree to disagree. Some are offended and some aren't which is why I choose to use one.
Doesn't really matter to me if I personally get hit by brass.
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I believe that we as shooters should police our own ranks.
If we write to the City and County about the unsafe condition and they close the range, then what? Wait for C&C to build booths or barriers? Let us say we write to C&C and they do nothing, and someone gets hurt. They will get sued for operating with an identified unsafe condition and shut down the range.
Safety is the major factor in all firearms related training or recreational activities. We should remind shooters to stay behind the yellow line for safety, not just because someone will yell at you. Watch the new shooters on how they operate their rifles and pistols and let them know the posted procedures for the range and instruct on shooter ettiquette. Police up your brass and trash. .
I personally bring extra eye protection, earplugs, hats, and a extra long sleeve shirt for people I train or even strangers that are new shooters that have obvious deficiencies or cleavage.
OK. I believe we are on the same page. I do not use brass catchers for my semi auto handguns, but do so for my rifles. I do not think they should be required and yes on the occasions that I have forgotten the brass catcher I've set my range bag up so that it blocked or deflected the brass so as not to eject on others.
With this said I do not think it's an unsafe condition. In fact it's probably the least of the unsafe conditions associated with shooting firearms when you look at potential hearing loss and cross contamination of breathing/ingesting the contaminants in the air and on your hands.
.........and although not a RSO I have said things to them when I felt certain shooters were unsafe.