2aHawaii
General Topics => Legal and Activism => Topic started by: SpeedTek on March 02, 2012, 12:58:54 AM
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My friend just had a conversation with Keith Kaneshiro regarding magazines over 10 Rounds.
Are you ready for this?
Mr Kaneshiro said Assault Pistols do not fall under the 10 round rule. Why? They are Assault Pistols not Pistols according to the HRS 134.
In the HRS it says Pistols are not allowed magazines over 10 Rounds. It does not say anything about Assault Pistols.
I always thought a Assault Pistol and a Pistol is the same thing. and it would be a matter of interpetation.
I asked my friend to talk to him again and get it in writing. Please!
I contacted my other friend who is a city attorney and asked him for his opinion.
:wtf:
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I've had this same conversation with various people involved with the prosecutors office.
They say in Hawaii, pistols and "assault pistols" are two very different categories of firearms.
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KK why did I have a feeling you would be the first to respond?
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While the term "assault pistol" may or may not be a further categorization of the term "pistol", I don't see why it even matters at this time. Assault pistols are illegal, so its all a moot point unless the assault pistol law is repealed and not the standard capacity magazine law.
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Hopefully he and the AG can get on the same page with this and I can take the blockers out of my Magpuls.
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While the term "assault pistol" may or may not be a further categorization of the term "pistol", I don't see why it even matters at this time. Assault pistols are illegal, so its all a moot point unless the assault pistol law is repealed and not the standard capacity magazine law.
There are the few of us who still have them and grandfathered in.
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An assault pistol is a pistol. It's in the definition -_- .
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There are the few of us who still have them and grandfathered in.
Where is the grandfather clause?
Without looking, I wonder if KK the prosecutor went to U.H. Richardson. It wouldn't surprise me how stupid they are in that office -- I watched them try to prosecute someone on a "warning" sign (the yellow one) saying that it was a regulatory sign and the guy was going over the speed limit /facepalm. They did this for four trial dates (talk about a waste of tax payer dollars).
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Where is the grandfather clause?
Without looking, I wonder if KK the prosecutor went to U.H. Richardson. It wouldn't surprise me how stupid they are in that office -- I watched them try to prosecute someone on a "warning" sign (the yellow one) saying that it was a regulatory sign and the guy was going over the speed limit /facepalm. They did this for four trial dates (talk about a waste of tax payer dollars).
Remember, he's the one that said the police do have a legal duty to protect you..... :wtf:
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Where is the grandfather clause?
Without looking, I wonder if KK the prosecutor went to U.H. Richardson. It wouldn't surprise me how stupid they are in that office -- I watched them try to prosecute someone on a "warning" sign (the yellow one) saying that it was a regulatory sign and the guy was going over the speed limit /facepalm. They did this for four trial dates (talk about a waste of tax payer dollars).
I read this to mean that if you were good to go prior to 07/01/92, you are still good to go (grandfathered).
HRS 134-4 (e) After July 1, 1992, no person shall bring or cause to be brought into the State an assault pistol. No assault pistol may be sold or transferred on or after July 1, 1992, to anyone within the State other than to a dealer licensed under section 134-32 or the chief of police of any county except that any person who obtains title by bequest or intestate succession to an assault pistol registered within the State shall, within ninety days, render the weapon permanently inoperable, sell or transfer the weapon to a licensed dealer or the chief of police of any county, or remove the weapon from the State. [L 1988, c 275, pt of §2; am L 1992, c 286, §2]
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:popcorn:
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sorry... i might need to be brought up to date...
so is this in discussion to classify why it is ok to have standard cap rifle mags?
part of the reason we cant have standard cap rifle mags being that rifles (such as a AR) can be converted to pistols... and we are not allowed to have standard cap pistol mags?
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but since it doesnt classify "assault pistol"... the reasoning i just posted above is out the window?
???
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Remember, he's the one that said the police do have a legal duty to protect you..... :wtf:
Who said the police have a legal duty to protect you?
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so define pistol and assault pistol
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NVM
Maybe they should lift the ban or even tax stamp it
I mean we get our toys and the gov get the money aint what the government need right now
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sorry... i might need to be brought up to date...
so is this in discussion to classify why it is ok to have standard cap rifle mags?
part of the reason we cant have standard cap rifle mags being that rifles (such as a AR) can be converted to pistols... and we are not allowed to have standard cap pistol mags?
The gist of this is an assault pistol is not a pistol. As such you can have a magazine in excess of 10 rounds for an assault pistol. Apparently even though the word "pistol" appears in assault pistol............an assault pistol is not a pistol. :crazy:
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so define pistol and assault pistol
Definition
Reference §HRS 134-1
"Assault pistol" means a semiautomatic pistol which accepts a detachable magazine and which has two or more of the following characteristics:
(1) An ammunition magazine which attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;
(2) A threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward hand grip, or silencer;
(3) A shroud which is attached to or partially or completely encircles the barrel and which permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the second hand without being burned;
(4) A manufactured weight of fifty ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded;
(5) A centerfire pistol with an overall length of twelve inches or more; or
(6) It is a semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm;
but does not include a firearm with a barrel sixteen or more inches in length, an antique pistol as defined in this section or
a curio or relic as those terms are used in 18 United States Code §921(16) or 27 Code of Federal Regulations 178.11.
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The gist of this is an assault pistol is not a pistol. As such you can have a magazine in excess of 10 rounds for an assault pistol. Apparently even though the word "pistol" appears in assault pistol............an assault pistol is not a pistol. :crazy:
The bolded is exactly why an "assault" pistol is a "pistol." It's like saying a white tail deer, is not a deer /facepalm its a logic fail.
The only way to say contrary, would be to go pull up the legislative history and recordings to actually hear the intent of the legislature when they enacted this law.
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Definition
Reference §HRS 134-1
"Assault pistol" means a semiautomatic pistol which accepts a detachable magazine and which has two or more of the following characteristics:
(1) An ammunition magazine which attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;
(2) A threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward hand grip, or silencer;
(3) A shroud which is attached to or partially or completely encircles the barrel and which permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the second hand without being burned;
(4) A manufactured weight of fifty ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded;
(5) A centerfire pistol with an overall length of twelve inches or more; or
(6) It is a semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm;
but does not include a firearm with a barrel sixteen or more inches in length, an antique pistol as defined in this section or
a curio or relic as those terms are used in 18 United States Code §921(16) or 27 Code of Federal Regulations 178.11.
So, a C&R "assault pistol" should be good to go with high-cap mags (can't think of any offhand). I wouldn't want to be a test case, though.
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More guns get added to C&R list :) everyday.
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Remember, he's the one that said the police do have a legal duty to protect you..... :wtf:
Even though in 1995 the US supreme court said "that law enforcement officers don't need to protect the people" I think I saw it on 2a foundation website.
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The bolded is exactly why an "assault" pistol is a "pistol." It's like saying a white tail deer, is not a deer /facepalm its a logic fail.
The only way to say contrary, would be to go pull up the legislative history and recordings to actually hear the intent of the legislature when they enacted this law.
Welcome to the world of the Government where common sense isn't so common and idiots are elected to run it.
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I drawed you a graff.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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I drawed you a graff.
You mean Graph?
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No one have an opinion based on my awesomely drawn graph? =O(
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I think that "ASSAULT" should be what it is, just an act and not a tool....
It's just a shoe used in an "ASSAULT"....... ::) or is it an "ASSAULT" shoe....... :wacko:
[attachment deleted by admin]
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I just thought that I would point out a picture from Massad Ayoob on Hawaii's magazine laws. Please look at this article, about half way down page under the “Birds of a feather” section. There is a nice little picture. Please read that caption, which states in full:
This 20-round magazine of .308 Winchester (7.62mm NATO) ammunition for author’s HK91 rifle is illegal in Hawaii; Cook County, Illinois; and some other jurisdictions.
http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob105.html (http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob105.html)
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News?
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I just thought that I would point out a picture from Massad Ayoob on Hawaii's magazine laws. Please look at this article, about half way down page under the “Birds of a feather” section. There is a nice little picture. Please read that caption, which states in full:
http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob105.html (http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob105.html)
Mr Ayoob is a smart guy when it comes to firearms laws, but I have to wonder if he is not just shooting from the hip here.
Even if you take HI literally and not parse "assault pistol", it would be mighty hard to find any short pistol size sidearm that takes a HK91 magazine. Same with AR10 or LR308. They just do not exist in pistol form in this universe, being illegal here notwithstanding.
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News?
In light of CO / NY / Wisconsin shootings,
It's not something we are focusing on right now. Be smart, we are already under attack by Innoye and others wanting to strip our magazines. Many of us have decided, it's a stupid idea to ask questions we don't really want the answer to.
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Mr Ayoob is a smart guy when it comes to firearms laws, but I have to wonder if he is not just shooting from the hip here.
Even if you take HI literally and not parse "assault pistol", it would be mighty hard to find any short pistol size sidearm that takes a HK91 magazine. Same with AR10 or LR308. They just do not exist in pistol form in this universe, being illegal here notwithstanding.
HRS 134-1 defines a pistol as: "Pistol" or "revolver" means any firearm of any shape with a barrel less than sixteen inches in length and capable of discharging loaded ammunition or any noxious gas.
The HK91 appears to have been manufactured as a SBR, which under Hawaii law means it is considered a "pistol" and therefore limited to a 10 round magazine.
http://www.investmentgradefirearms.com/G3kconversion.htm (http://www.investmentgradefirearms.com/G3kconversion.htm)
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Mr Ayoob is a smart guy when it comes to firearms laws, but I have to wonder if he is not just shooting from the hip here.
Even if you take HI literally and not parse "assault pistol", it would be mighty hard to find any short pistol size sidearm that takes a HK91 magazine. Same with AR10 or LR308. They just do not exist in pistol form in this universe, being illegal here notwithstanding.
Been available for 8 years
(http://www.bootsandsabers.com/images/uploads/V53_Pistol_Web.jpg)
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What?
You mean Massad Ayoob, one of the most respected names in the industry actually knew what he was talking about? :wtf:
No way. :o
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I stand corrected, but want nothing to do with that thing. So, how many of them are in Hawaii? Sarcasm intended.........
A rifle length HK91 is a nasty recoiling thing as it is. Can imagine that little contraption. Must be great for noise and blast, not so much for hitting anything.
Other than just bragging rights, the Thompson-Contender guys blasting away with rifle cartridges always seemed an exercise in masochism to me.
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Other than just bragging rights, the Thompson-Contender guys blasting away with rifle cartridges always seemed an exercise in masochism to me.
What the hell did you call me? :grrr:
:rofl:
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What the hell did you call me? :grrr:
:rofl:
I might be tempted to touch off a .223 from a short barrel, but a .45-70 or .308? Why not just go smack my hand with a hammer? :shake:
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I might be tempted to touch off a .223 from a short barrel, but a .45-70 or .308? Why not just go smack my hand with a hammer? :shake:
Because it's not close enough. Better simulation would be repeatedly slamming a car door over your hand.
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I might be tempted to touch off a .223 from a short barrel, but a .45-70 or .308? Why not just go smack my hand with a hammer? :shake:
.308 out of a cut down H&K 91 is not really that bad. The stuff the silhouette shooters use is worse. I'm pretty certain their single shots are (1) lighter and (2) don't have a moveable bolt carrier to eat more recoil.