2aHawaii

Tools and Uses => Reloading => Topic started by: oldfart on November 06, 2017, 12:20:56 PM

Title: Coated Bullet Project
Post by: oldfart on November 06, 2017, 12:20:56 PM
I cast my own bullets but my curiousity got me.
I'm going to compare my bullets with coated bullets from Blue, SNS, and Bayou.
Here are Blue and SNS.
Title: Re: Coated Bullet Project
Post by: macsak on November 06, 2017, 12:23:58 PM
I cast my own bullets but my curiousity got me.
I'm going to compare my bullets with coated bullets from Blue, SNS, and Bayou.
Here are Blue and SNS.

heads

awesome project
I look forward to your results
Title: Re: Coated Bullet Project
Post by: TooFewPews on November 06, 2017, 12:24:19 PM
Cool project.

Here is my load data for ACME 135gr RN NLG coated in case you might find it useful

ACME Bullet Company 135 grain RN-NLG coated
Hi-Skor 700-x:
3.4 grains (956 fps out of VP9; approximately 129.06 PF)
3.5 grains (967 fps out of VP9; approximately 130.54 PF)
3.6 grains (990 fps out of VP9; approximately 133.65 PF)
3.7 grains (1004 fps out of VP9; approximately 135.54 PF)
3.8 grains (1023 fps out of VP9; approximately 138.10 PF)
3.9 grains (1047 fps out of VP9; approximately 141.34 PF)
COL: 1.135" (very minor crimp)

CFE Pistol (velocity / PowerFactor)
               VP9         p226         RO9
4.2gr      959/129      975/132      985/133
4.3gr      972/131      976/132      986/133
4.4gr      999/135      1,010/136      1,014/137
4.5gr      1,023/138      1,025/138      1,042/141
4.6gr      1,027/139      1,025/138      1,053/142
4.7gr      1,048/141      1,047/141      1,087/147
COL: 1.135" (very minor crimp)


Title: Re: Coated Bullet Project
Post by: Inspector on November 06, 2017, 12:26:35 PM
I cast my own bullets but my curiousity got me.
I'm going to compare my bullets with coated bullets from Blue, SNS, and Bayou.
Here are Blue and SNS.
Really interested in seeing your results!!  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Coated Bullet Project
Post by: oldfart on November 06, 2017, 12:44:07 PM
There seems to be a lot of small companies making coated bullets.
If anyone would like to donate a few 45 cal. Bullets from a different company, I will include them in the project.
I'm not really sure how this is going to pan out because of the variables involved.
This project will focus on 200 and 230 gr. 45 acp bullets only.
Title: Re: Coated Bullet Project
Post by: oldfart on November 06, 2017, 12:47:03 PM
Cool project.

Here is my load data for ACME 135gr RN NLG coated in case you might find it useful

ACME Bullet Company 135 grain RN-NLG coated
Hi-Skor 700-x:
3.4 grains (956 fps out of VP9; approximately 129.06 PF)
3.5 grains (967 fps out of VP9; approximately 130.54 PF)
3.6 grains (990 fps out of VP9; approximately 133.65 PF)
3.7 grains (1004 fps out of VP9; approximately 135.54 PF)
3.8 grains (1023 fps out of VP9; approximately 138.10 PF)
3.9 grains (1047 fps out of VP9; approximately 141.34 PF)
COL: 1.135" (very minor crimp)

CFE Pistol (velocity / PowerFactor)
               VP9         p226         RO9
4.2gr      959/129      975/132      985/133
4.3gr      972/131      976/132      986/133
4.4gr      999/135      1,010/136      1,014/137
4.5gr      1,023/138      1,025/138      1,042/141
4.6gr      1,027/139      1,025/138      1,053/142
4.7gr      1,048/141      1,047/141      1,087/147
COL: 1.135" (very minor crimp)
....
Good Intel.

You tried any 45 acp?
Title: Re: Coated Bullet Project
Post by: TooFewPews on November 06, 2017, 12:50:20 PM
....
Good Intel.

You tried any 45 acp?

nope.  it is difficult finding good load data for these coated bullets, especially with newer powders, like CFE Pistol.

I'm interested in your 45 results though since i need to make an order of 230gr RN and i was considering going coated this time.  I usually go with copper plated or FMJ (if i can find a good deal on the FMJ).
Title: Re: Coated Bullet Project
Post by: Heavies on November 07, 2017, 07:04:19 PM
There seems to be a lot of small companies making coated bullets.
If anyone would like to donate a few 45 cal. Bullets from a different company, I will include them in the project.
I'm not really sure how this is going to pan out because of the variables involved.
This project will focus on 200 and 230 gr. 45 acp bullets only.

I might have some coated .45, I'll look when I get home from work.
Title: Re: Coated Bullet Project
Post by: Heavies on November 07, 2017, 07:11:48 PM
....
Good Intel.

You tried any 45 acp?

I tried coated .45acp with the tried and true 3.5 bullseye, 200 grain SWC.  shot just as good as lead, only cleaner and less mess.   I shoot 9mm coated 147 SWC from SNS.  I like it a lot, same thing less mess, less to clean.  Don't have any velocity numbers, would mind shooting them over the chrono to see.  I believe it was 3.2 bullseye.
Title: Re: Coated Bullet Project
Post by: oldfart on November 07, 2017, 09:11:50 PM
I might have some coated .45, I'll look when I get home from work.
...
I got SNS and Blue bullets already. Still waiting for Bayou to come in.
I'm going to load some test ammo tonight and go shoot tomorrow.
Title: Re: Coated Bullet Project
Post by: TooFewPews on November 07, 2017, 11:01:13 PM
...
I got SNS and Blue bullets already. Still waiting for Bayou to come in.
I'm going to load some test ammo tonight and go shoot tomorrow.

How much are you paying per bullet (with shipping)?
Title: Re: Coated Bullet Project
Post by: oldfart on November 08, 2017, 02:36:34 AM
How much are you paying per bullet (with shipping)?
....
Since I only ordered small sample packs, the cost per bullet was pretty high.
Cost was not my primary concern at the moment.
I get the impression that if you order in normal quantities the prices would be comparable to everybody else, including xtreme, precision delta, Rainer, Montana, etc, etc.

I think the sample packs cost me about $120.00 for 900 bullets.

FYI, since I cast my own bullets 1000 cost me less than 20 bucks. (45/200gr SWC)
Title: Re: Coated Bullet Project
Post by: oldfart on November 08, 2017, 07:08:54 AM
Test loads for today.
All loaded with the same charge of 4.9 IMR TARGET.
1. Precision delta 230 gr.fmj
2. Blue 200
3. SNS 200
4. Blue 230
5. SNS 230
6. Saeco 68 200
7. Xtreme 230
8. Western Nevada 230

Looking to see relative speed with same powder charge.
Title: Re: Coated Bullet Project
Post by: Inspector on November 08, 2017, 07:35:52 AM
Test loads for today.
All loaded with the same charge of 4.9 IMR TARGET.
1. Precision delta 230 gr.fmj
2. Blue 200
3. SNS 200
4. Blue 230
5. SNS 230
6. Saeco 68 200
7. Xtreme 230
8. Western Nevada 230

Looking to see relative speed with same powder charge.
That's some good lookin' ammonition yoos got der OF!!!  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Are you going to do any accuracy testing as well? Just curious...
Title: Re: Coated Bullet Project
Post by: TooFewPews on November 08, 2017, 07:53:57 AM
Test loads for today.
All loaded with the same charge of 4.9 IMR TARGET.
1. Precision delta 230 gr.fmj
2. Blue 200
3. SNS 200
4. Blue 230
5. SNS 230
6. Saeco 68 200
7. Xtreme 230
8. Western Nevada 230

Looking to see relative speed with same powder charge.

what cartridge overall length did you decide on for each of these loads?
Title: Re: Coated Bullet Project
Post by: macsak on November 08, 2017, 08:02:06 AM
what cartridge overall length did you decide on for each of these loads?
[/quote

good question
I was wondering if the different shape of each head would make a difference
Title: Re: Coated Bullet Project
Post by: oldfart on November 08, 2017, 08:14:43 AM
That's some good lookin' ammonition yoos got der OF!!!  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Are you going to do any accuracy testing as well? Just curious...
...
Yes they are pretty colors aren't they?
I intend to shoot groups with most of the various loads, but you know accuracy testing takes a lot more effort.
Title: Re: Coated Bullet Project
Post by: oldfart on November 08, 2017, 08:30:00 AM
what cartridge overall length did you decide on for each of these loads?
...
They are all standard profile bullets so I left the seater alone from the last job I did which was the Saeco68.
I use a RN seater punch and it works well for both profiles.
The SWC profiles are 1.250 and the RN profiles are 1.260.
You will note that the driving bands are exactly where they should be, approximately 1/32 in.exposed.
Taper crimp to 0.466

I expect the BLUE bullets to shoot a little faster because the are sized a bit smaller by default...0.451.
Most lead bullets are 0.452.
Title: Re: Coated Bullet Project
Post by: oldfart on November 08, 2017, 10:24:17 AM
The mailman just delivered the Bayou bullets.
Just in time to crank off a few test rounds before I head out.
Title: Re: Coated Bullet Project
Post by: rklapp on November 08, 2017, 03:47:27 PM
(https://media.tenor.com/images/246da9f91d49054d3f95cf40fc3ac588/tenor.gif)
Title: Re: Coated Bullet Project
Post by: macsak on November 08, 2017, 04:45:11 PM
The mailman just delivered the Bayou bullets.
Just in time to crank off a few test rounds before I head out.

heads
Title: Re: Coated Bullet Project
Post by: rklapp on November 08, 2017, 11:03:52 PM
Renton  :D
Title: Re: Coated Bullet Project
Post by: oldfart on November 09, 2017, 09:24:05 AM
Renton  :D
???
Title: Re: Coated Bullet Project
Post by: oldfart on November 09, 2017, 10:19:58 AM
Renton  :D
...
Ahaa,  an inside joke.

Anyway,  I got a lot of data to look at and ponder.
Unfortunately,  I didn't get to finish chronographing because I started getting wonky numbers towards the end.
I'm working on a summary now.
Title: Re: Coated Bullet Project
Post by: Heavies on November 09, 2017, 12:56:05 PM
...
Ahaa,  an inside joke.

Anyway,  I got a lot of data to look at and ponder.
Unfortunately,  I didn't get to finish chronographing because I started getting wonky numbers towards the end.
I'm working on a summary now.
Very interested OF.  Thanks for the test. 

Sorry for the late reply, I got some .452 200gr Missouri coated if you want to try those too. 
Title: Re: Coated Bullet Project
Post by: oldfart on November 09, 2017, 03:52:00 PM
Very interested OF.  Thanks for the test. 

Sorry for the late reply, I got some .452 200gr Missouri coated if you want to try those too.
....
Sure
I can trade you some pretty blue bullets. The 200gr. Blue seemed to shoot very well. About 2 inches at 25yards.
Title: Re: Coated Bullet Project
Post by: oldfart on November 10, 2017, 08:23:43 AM
The Coated Bullet Project

My friends have been using coated bullets for years but I was never interested because I cast my own bullets. However it seems as though the technology has evolved tremendously, to the point where it is interesting enough to warrant some investigation.
For this test, I ordered 3 different brands of coated bullets which are popular amongst 45acp shooters. BLUE, SNS, and BAYOU. I bought 200 gr.SWC #68 style and 230 gr. Round nose style

BLUE https://www.thebluebullets.com/

Delivery:These bullets win the shipping speed contest by arriving in 3 days.
Appearance: Nice looking, smooth even finish
Weight: nominal
Diameter:0.451 in.
Design:Common #68 style long nose SWC with no lube groove
The round nose is similar to military ball style with no lube groove.
Both styles had a very slight bevel base which made seating pretty easy with no scraping.
The coating is very tough and I could not scratch it off with my fingernail.
It also seems impervious to my cleaning solvent consisting of acetone and tuloene.
I’m impressed.

SNS http://www.snscasting.com/
Delivery:These bullets came in second place-4 days
Appearance:Also nice looking with even finish
Weight: nominal
Diameter: 0.452
Design: Similar to the blue bullets except these have a pronounced bevel base which made them even easier to seat. Also resistant to solvents.


BAYOU http://www.bayoubullets.net/
Delivery:These bullets came in last-7 days
Appearance:Nice looking even finish. Maybe a little glittery.
Weight: nominal
Diameter: 0.452
Design: Common #68 style WITH a lube groove and bevel base. Of course, there is no lube in the groove. The round nose bullet also has a vestigial lube groove and beveled base. However this bullet differs from the others by having a well defined driving band.
I cast a bullet that has this same feature and I feel that it does contribute to accuracy.

Title: Re: Coated Bullet Project
Post by: oldfart on November 10, 2017, 09:38:58 AM
see pic
***these numbers are approximately 20 fps faster than conventional 45acp guns due to the barrel length and chamber.

Thoughts:
The powder charge for all the test loads was 4.9 gr of IMR TARGET (courtesy of INSPECTOR)
I was surprised that the smaller diameter BLUE bullets shot consistently a little slower than the others.
For action pistol shooters, any of the 200 gr test loads would make a fine major PF load.
For people wanting to load something like military ball, any of these 230 gr. loads would come really close to full power factory ball.

I did not have time to finish all the tests with the conventional cast bullets.


Title: Re: Coated Bullet Project
Post by: TooFewPews on November 10, 2017, 09:46:14 AM
see pic
***these numbers are approximately 20 fps faster than conventional 45acp guns due to the barrel length and chamber.

Thoughts:
The powder charge for all the test loads was 4.9 gr of IMR TARGET (courtesy of INSPECTOR)
I was surprised that the smaller diameter BLUE bullets shot consistently a little slower than the others.
For action pistol shooters, any of the 200 gr test loads would make a fine major PF load.
For people wanting to load something like military ball, any of these 230 gr. loads would come really close to full power factory ball.

I did not have time to finish all the tests with the conventional cast bullets.

for comparsion purposes, what kinds of velocities do you get for that same load (and same gun), but using 230 FMJ Round Nose, 230 Plated Round Nose, and 230 Cast Round Nose?
Title: Re: Coated Bullet Project
Post by: oldfart on November 10, 2017, 09:46:38 AM
Accuracy Impressions:

Even without loading for accuracy, the bullets showed good potential for accurate loads.
Here are some pix. The black aiming points are approximately 2 inches.
I didn't have time to finish everything and my trigger finger was hurting bad due to a past injury. :(
Title: Re: Coated Bullet Project
Post by: oldfart on November 10, 2017, 09:50:14 AM
for comparsion purposes, what kinds of velocities do you get for that same load (and same gun), but using 230 FMJ Round Nose, 230 Plated Round Nose, and 230 Cast Round Nose?
====
I ran out of time, chrono was throwing errors and my finger was hurting. So I didn't finish. :(
Title: Re: Coated Bullet Project
Post by: Inspector on November 10, 2017, 01:14:49 PM
So far your results look promising. Thanks for all your hard work, OF.  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Coated Bullet Project
Post by: Heavies on November 12, 2017, 03:09:05 AM
Looks awesome!  Thank you!  Makes sense the looser bullet shoot slower.  More pressure would equal more velocity. Makes me wonder if that coating is slicker than a pain lead with lube, or if the coating has less lubrication.
Title: Re: Coated Bullet Project
Post by: oldfart on November 12, 2017, 05:14:38 AM
Looks awesome!  Thank you!  Makes sense the looser bullet shoot slower.  More pressure would equal more velocity. Makes me wonder if that coating is slicker than a pain lead with lube, or if the coating has less lubrication.
...
I was thinking the looser bullet have less friction so it would go faster. 😀
I don't think any of the coated bullets will go as fast as lubed lead bullets. A guy on the 1911 forum told me that I would have to bump up the powder charge to get the same speed.
I'll probably go out with more test loads today.

Title: Re: Coated Bullet Project
Post by: oldfart on November 13, 2017, 06:06:43 AM
for comparsion purposes, what kinds of velocities do you get for that same load (and same gun), but using 230 FMJ Round Nose, 230 Plated Round Nose, and 230 Cast Round Nose?
====
I did crank out a few more test loads and hit the range today. This was a continuation of a few days ago with 4.9 gr. IMR Target.
The precision delta 230 gr.FMJ bullet did 783 fps as opposed to the 230 gr.coated bullets which all did about 836 fps.
The xtreme 230 rn did about 780fps.
The western Nevada cast-lubed 230 gr. bullets did a whopping 869fps

This would seem to confirm the theory that the coated bullets run faster than copper but slower than lubed lead.

Title: Re: Coated Bullet Project
Post by: oldfart on November 13, 2017, 06:17:24 AM
Changing to a lighter load with 5.2 gr HP38 powder:

Blue200=800 fps/ 18 sd
SNS200=775 fps/ 21 sd
Bayou230=789 fps/ 13 sd
Xtreme230 rn=749 fps/ 14 sd

Action shooters can make major with 4.9 gr HP38 using a coated 230 gr bullet.
(my competition load was 4.8 231 with a 230 gr lead RN)
Title: Re: Coated Bullet Project
Post by: oldfart on November 13, 2017, 06:52:29 PM
I was going to post some pix but I get an error.
Anyway, the SWC coated bullets seem to shoot better than the round nose.
No surprises there
Title: Coated Bullet Project
Post by: TooFewPews on November 13, 2017, 09:28:56 PM
I was going to post some pix but I get an error.
Anyway, the SWC coated bullets seem to shoot better than the round nose.
No surprises there

OF, what do you mean that the SWC bullets shoot better? What do you mean by "better"?

I'm wondering if I should switch to coated SWC. I always thought that there wasn't much of a point to SWC if I'm not shooting bullseye, but now you have me reconsidering.

Also thanks for posting the precision delta and copper plated Xtreme data.

Similar to your findings, I'm running a full power load with the xtreme 230 RN and CFE Pistol at 6.1 grains and 1.260" COL. My CFE load gets comparable velocity except my data was out of USP 45 full size.
Title: Re: Coated Bullet Project
Post by: oldfart on November 14, 2017, 09:44:40 AM
OF, what do you mean that the SWC bullets shoot better? What do you mean by "better"?

I'm wondering if I should switch to coated SWC. I always thought that there wasn't much of a point to SWC if I'm not shooting bullseye, but now you have me reconsidering.

Also thanks for posting the precision delta and copper plated Xtreme data.

Similar to your findings, I'm running a full power load with the xtreme 230 RN and CFE Pistol at 6.1 grains and 1.260" COL. My CFE load gets comparable velocity except my data was out of USP 45 full size.
==========
I meant that the swc bullets shoot tighter groups.
If you shooting with an action pistol club, I recommend staying with a 230 round nose bullet, either lubed lead or coated, and load down to about 740 fps average.
Here are some more quick test shots.
Title: Re: Coated Bullet Project
Post by: oldfart on November 18, 2017, 12:25:57 PM
oops
Title: Re: Coated Bullet Project
Post by: macsak on November 18, 2017, 01:07:46 PM
oops

heads
Title: Re: Coated Bullet Project
Post by: oldfart on November 18, 2017, 03:56:21 PM
heads
...
I was going to post the chrono numbers but I saw an error in the spreadsheet.Lol