2aHawaii
General Topics => Legal and Activism => Topic started by: ptanabe on November 20, 2017, 11:19:14 PM
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I was denied my permit to acquire today and if I don't clear my name HPD will come to my house to confiscate my guns. This is no conspiracy theory.
So according to HPD they have "determined that I may have received or are currently receiving treatment or counseling"...
I have NEVER been addicted to drugs or alcohol, NEVER been diagnosed with any mental health disorders, and NEVER needed to see a psychiatrist. supposedly HPD determined this due to a letter they received from Kaiser. I called Kaiser and asked for the letter that they sent HPD. they (Kaiser) may have worded the letter wrong. I will attach for you guys to read and decide. what are your thoughts? suggestions? I emailed Kaisers Records Department asking them to clarify their letter.
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I was denied my permit to acquire today and if I don't clear my name HPD will come to my house to confiscate my guns. This is no conspiracy theory.
So according to HPD they have "determined that I may have received or are currently receiving treatment or counseling"...
I have NEVER been addicted to drugs or alcohol, NEVER been diagnosed with any mental health disorders, and NEVER needed to see a psychiatrist. supposedly HPD determined this due to a letter they received from Kaiser. I called Kaiser and asked for the letter that they sent HPD. they (Kaiser) may have worded the letter wrong. I will attach for you guys to read and decide. what are your thoughts? suggestions? I emailed Kaisers Records Department asking them to clarify their letter.
Who or where does it mention confiscation?
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I was denied my permit to acquire today and if I don't clear my name HPD will come to my house to confiscate my guns. This is no conspiracy theory.
So according to HPD they have "determined that I may have received or are currently receiving treatment or counseling"...
I have NEVER been addicted to drugs or alcohol, NEVER been diagnosed with any mental health disorders, and NEVER needed to see a psychiatrist. supposedly HPD determined this due to a letter they received from Kaiser. I called Kaiser and asked for the letter that they sent HPD. they (Kaiser) may have worded the letter wrong. I will attach for you guys to read and decide. what are your thoughts? suggestions? I emailed Kaisers Records Department asking them to clarify their letter.
this is bad
everyone who has Kaiser is possibly going to get flagged by HPD
Kaiser is replying to HPD that people went to psych services for any reason, but not specifying why they were there, so HPD is denying them
and now, they are replying that you haven't been to psych services, so they don't know what your status is, so HPD is denying them
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Letter basically saying they haven't seen you since 15 in any facility, which MAY include a mental health facility, and which implies you may have developed mental issues since then which they haven't had a chance to diagnose. Then decided to decline to comment on the state of your mental health, which implies to hpd that they're a tiny chance you have a mental health issue that's not resolved.
I really hope hpd temporarily goofed in your situation. I just applied for a permit yesterday. This Kaiser bullshit makes me think it's almost not even worth keeping them as insurance. BUT it really seems like dumb mixup in hpds part
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My first thought after briefly reading the Kaiser letter was that they are denying you have ever been treated for anything (ie there is no record of you in their system whatsoever) and therefore it looks suspicious that you claim Kaiser is your provider but have no records of treatment of any kind for you. I would include that may mean they are saying you are not a part of their system and are not in their system.
Then I reread the letter and I came to a different conclusion that HPD is incorrectly interpreting the Kaiser letter. Either by accident or on purpose. Either way I would contact HPD and request a review of the letter from Kaiser with you present so you can make them understand that their interpretation is incorrect. You should stress the first sentence of the Kaiser letter that refers to strictly mental disorders and they are saying you have never been treated for any mental disorders and their records for you go back to 2015. That is how I interpret their letter to read after a second and third reading. FWIW
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^Kaiser is being a little bitch and using cute language to avoid taking any position or making any claim as to the state of your mental health
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^Kaiser is being a little bitch and using cute language to avoid taking any position or making any claim as to the state of your mental health
you are correct, sir
and then HPD is using the letter as an excuse to deny
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^Kaiser is being a little bitch and using cute language to avoid taking any position or making any claim as to the state of your mental health
Exactly... the wording is completely fucked. Glad I work for a doctor so I don't have to deal with this bullshit. Feel bad for you Kaiser victims.
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OK, so heres what you do .
You go to HPD and tell them that you have the letter from Kaiser and that it does not show a diagnosis or evidence of ANY medical condition that would exclude you from possession of a firearm. Tell them that you have provided the required information as stated in the law and that UNLESS evidence is presented that you DO have a medical condition that would excluded you ANY denial of your permit OR seizure of your current firearms would be a violation of your constitutional rights.
Your rights can no be suspended/revoked without EVIDENCE
I would also recommended contacting a lawyer. you can call Richard Holcomb at (808) 545-4040, he a great guy and worked with me on my case.
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Have you talked to HPD about this? Sounds like a mix up that HPD can easily fix if you talk to them first.
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OK, so heres what you do .
You go to HPD and tell them that you have the letter from Kaiser and that it does not show a diagnosis or evidence of ANY medical condition that would exclude you from possession of a firearm. Tell them that you have provided the required information as stated in the law and that UNLESS evidence is presented that you DO have a medical condition that would excluded you ANY denial of your permit OR seizure of your current firearms would be a violation of your constitutional rights.
Your rights can no be suspended/revoked without EVIDENCE
I would also recommended contacting a lawyer. you can call Richard Holcomb at (808) 545-4040, he a great guy and worked with me on my case.
The sad thing is that I just applied for a handgun permit, so I may be in the same boat as him (if Kaiser is using this verbage as standard), and have to take you up on that offer if im in that situation as well. I do appreciate the contact information.
Also sad that I doubt we'll able to organize the community in any meaningful way because the people with kaiser and having problems, getting a handgun permit, on oahu, etc. is an extremely small subset of the population of gun owners, which is already a small subset of the population on oahu. And if the problem is with Kaiser, I doubt they would want to hear anything from non-kaiser members because it doesnt really affect them.
My last visit to Kaiser was in May (for a cold), and I registered 4 handguns from then until now already. So if they deny this current permit based on some newly formatted garbage worded letter, it would be interesting to hear them explain the justification.
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Who or where does it mention confiscation?
well the confiscation part is not on the paper. Officer Cruz in the firearms department told me that because I already own guns that:down the line I'm going to be sent a letter requesting me to turn in my guns. Unless I clear this with my doctor...
I don't have a doctor I don't have medical, I'm a independent contractor and medical is too damn expensive.
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this is bad
everyone who has Kaiser is possibly going to get flagged by HPD
Kaiser is replying to HPD that people went to psych services for any reason, but not specifying why they were there, so HPD is denying them
and now, they are replying that you haven't been to psych services, so they don't know what your status is, so HPD is denying them
I've never seen a psych in my life, never needed to. but seeing a psych shouldn't be and automatic disqualification.
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Letter basically saying they haven't seen you since 15 in any facility, which MAY include a mental health facility, and which implies you may have developed mental issues since then which they haven't had a chance to diagnose. Then decided to decline to comment on the state of your mental health, which implies to hpd that they're a tiny chance you have a mental health issue that's not resolved.
I really hope hpd temporarily goofed in your situation. I just applied for a permit yesterday. This Kaiser bullshit makes me think it's almost not even worth keeping them as insurance. BUT it really seems like dumb mixup in hpds part
its the wording that Kaiser used. I sent them a nice email though.
I think you should have reworded your letter. "We have no record of this person being treated at any of the Kaiser Permanente Hawaii medical facilities including the Moanalua Medical Center since 1/27/15."
"since" could imply OR give the impression that: I have previously been treated for mental health. please clarify this with HPD and CC me in the email. I have 3 days to clarify this.
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My first thought after briefly reading the Kaiser letter was that they are denying you have ever been treated for anything (ie there is no record of you in their system whatsoever) and therefore it looks suspicious that you claim Kaiser is your provider but have no records of treatment of any kind for you. I would include that may mean they are saying you are not a part of their system and are not in their system.
Then I reread the letter and I came to a different conclusion that HPD is incorrectly interpreting the Kaiser letter. Either by accident or on purpose. Either way I would contact HPD and request a review of the letter from Kaiser with you present so you can make them understand that their interpretation is incorrect. You should stress the first sentence of the Kaiser letter that refers to strictly mental disorders and they are saying you have never been treated for any mental disorders and their records for you go back to 2015. That is how I interpret their letter to read after a second and third reading. FWIW
Yea, I'm pretty much on the same wavelength here.
My take is that the letter is ambiguous and makes it seem like Kaiser isnt the healthcare system that hes a part of. Which is true, since he has just admitted that he doesnt have a doctor and doesnt have medical coverage. The question then becomes, who has his records?
He may have visited the Kaiser emergency room once, hence the '15 reference and felt like he should put that on the forms, since it asks.
For my situation, I dont have a primary care physician that I regularly visit, but all my health records are at Straub, so thats what I put on the forms.
Either way, this is going to take some clearing up or HPD is probably going to come knocking on his door just like the medijuana patients that have guns and are currently applying for a new permit.
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My first thought after briefly reading the Kaiser letter was that they are denying you have ever been treated for anything (ie there is no record of you in their system whatsoever) and therefore it looks suspicious that you claim Kaiser is your provider but have no records of treatment of any kind for you. I would include that may mean they are saying you are not a part of their system and are not in their system.
Then I reread the letter and I came to a different conclusion that HPD is incorrectly interpreting the Kaiser letter. Either by accident or on purpose. Either way I would contact HPD and request a review of the letter from Kaiser with you present so you can make them understand that their interpretation is incorrect. You should stress the first sentence of the Kaiser letter that refers to strictly mental disorders and they are saying you have never been treated for any mental disorders and their records for you go back to 2015. That is how I interpret their letter to read after a second and third reading. FWIW
I agree. I've asked Kaiser in an email to clarify this with HPD. I'm gong to call them later today.
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Yea, I'm pretty much on the same wavelength here.
My take is that the letter is ambiguous and makes it seem like Kaiser isnt the healthcare system that hes a part of. Which is true, since he has just admitted that he doesnt have a doctor and doesnt have medical coverage. The question then becomes, who has his records?
He may have visited the Kaiser emergency room once, hence the '15 reference and felt like he should put that on the forms, since it asks.
For my situation, I dont have a primary care physician that I regularly visit, but all my health records are at Straub, so thats what I put on the forms.
Either way, this is going to take some clearing up or HPD is probably going to come knocking on his door just like the medijuana patients that have guns and are currently applying for a new permit.
Kaiser still has his records, they just stated they haven't seen him since 2015. BUT you guys could be correct in that theyre being extra ambiguous since he no longer has coverage with them.
ptanabe - honestly I would either talk to a kaiser manager in the records division on the phone or in person. The email stuff can get tossed aside or ignored. If you're looking at a confiscation notice from HPD, you should probably be kicking down doors (not literally) to get this crap settled.
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OK, so heres what you do .
You go to HPD and tell them that you have the letter from Kaiser and that it does not show a diagnosis or evidence of ANY medical condition that would exclude you from possession of a firearm. Tell them that you have provided the required information as stated in the law and that UNLESS evidence is presented that you DO have a medical condition that would excluded you ANY denial of your permit OR seizure of your current firearms would be a violation of your constitutional rights.
Your rights can no be suspended/revoked without EVIDENCE
I would also recommended contacting a lawyer. you can call Richard Holcomb at (808) 545-4040, he a great guy and worked with me on my case.
thank you I appreciate it. I called him yesterday. he gave me his email but I was so pissed yesterday I didn't bother to save it. any way you could dm me his email and how much did it cost?
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Have you talked to HPD about this? Sounds like a mix up that HPD can easily fix if you talk to them first.
sounds like it, I don't know what HPD's SOP is but I don't think it'll be that easy?
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Kaiser still has his records, they just stated they haven't seen him since 2015. BUT you guys could be correct in that theyre being extra ambiguous since he no longer has coverage with them.
ptanabe - honestly I would either talk to a kaiser manager in the records division on the phone or in person. The email stuff can get tossed aside or ignored. If you're looking at a confiscation notice from HPD, you should probably be kicking down doors (not literally) to get this crap settled.
I have and will call again today. email is always good though, it leaves a proven trail of what's been said and when its been said.
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Just for future reference, if you don’t have insurance and/or are not being treated by a doctor at this time you tell HPD I don’t have a doctor right now and you don’t need to worry about this.
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Kaiser and HPD are in collusion, I'm almost certain of it
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Kaiser and HPD are in collusion, I'm almost certain of it
Don't forget the Russians.
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If you are on the Big Island (or want to fly here) and cant get this sorted, I will do the physician clearance letter for kaiser patients. PM me and I can give you details.
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If you are on the Big Island (or want to fly here) and cant get this sorted, I will do the physician clearance letter for kaiser patients. PM me and I can give you details.
I appreciate it. I got everything cleared. I had to get into it with a few people, let just say the officer issuing the permit seemed a bit reluctant?
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I appreciate it. I got everything cleared. I had to get into it with a few people, let just say the officer issuing the permit seemed a bit reluctant?
for people in the future, could you please explain who you talked to and what occurred?
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for people in the future, could you please explain who you talked to and what occurred?
yes, please do explain.
I'd like to know also about this new Kaiser letter. this is something new where you haven't even seen behavioral health / psychologist and you were red flagged. that's just very strange to get red flagged with no history of seeing a psychologist.
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they must've lost Kaisers real letter in a white mailbox
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for people in the future, could you please explain who you talked to and what occurred?
after receiving the letter I sent the following message via email to the Kaiser Records Dept.
I think you should have reworded your letter. "We have no record of this person being treated at any of the Kaiser Permanente Hawaii medical facilities including the Moanalua Medical Center since 1/27/15."
"since" could imply OR give the impression that: I have previously been treated for mental health. please clarify this with HPD and CC me in the email. I have 3 days to clarify this.
i didn't get a response so i called Kaiser around 3 the next day to talk to Anita (the person who sent the letter). she seems to have received the email because she already seemed irritated and ready to argue. within seconds she handed me off to her supervisor. basically all i told her supervisor is that i don't have medical, I have no record of being crazy, and that HPD seems to be under the impression that I am crazy. all i need is for them to clarify that.
she said she knows the officer in charge (Hoopii?) and has a good working relation with him so she would talk to him.
couple minutes later HPD is calling me to pick up my permit.
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What a headache. Good to hear that you got it cleared up. Hopefully they do the same for everyone else. :thumbsup:
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well the confiscation part is not on the paper. Officer Cruz in the firearms department told me that because I already own guns that:down the line I'm going to be sent a letter requesting me to turn in my guns. Unless I clear this with my doctor...
I don't have a doctor I don't have medical, I'm a independent contractor and medical is too damn expensive.
which one is officer Cruz?
glad you got it resolved.
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this even made FB on cold dead hands FB page
https://www.facebook.com/colddeadhands/photos/a.307409332641284.68774.307188559330028/1545442345504637/?type=3&theater
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^
Actually that letter is different and relating to medical marijuana usage.
If ptanabe is ok with it, someone should redact his name out of the letters and post it up there as well. if they got riled up over medical marijuana, they'll be even more impressed by commie hawaii pd denial over the hospital's statement that their records don't show if he has mental issues or not.
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^
Actually that letter is different and relating to medical marijuana usage.
If ptanabe is ok with it, someone should redact his name out of the letters and post it up there as well. if they got riled up over medical marijuana, they'll be even more impressed by commie hawaii pd denial over the hospital's statement that their records don't show if he has mental issues or not.
oh darn. I didn't read it well at all. sorry. :shaka:
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Good to hear that you got it resolved. I was gonna offer to contact a buddy that works in the firearms division. He’s low on the totem pole, but at least could get some insight.
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Would it be ok to share this via FB? As long as personal info is redacted.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
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Would it be ok to share this via FB? As long as personal info is redacted.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
He hasn't been back here since the issue was resolved. I'd guess that it wouldnt' be an issue if all personal information was redacted. But that is only my opinion.
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which one is officer Cruz?
glad you got it resolved.
The guys at J Hara identified him as the bald one
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I guess I can’t delete a post?
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Would it be ok to share this via FB? As long as personal info is redacted.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Yeah just redact my name it’s all good.
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He hasn't been back here since the issue was resolved. I'd guess that it wouldnt' be an issue if all personal information was redacted. But that is only my opinion.
Lol sorry I’m gonna try to come on a little more. Been busy and I don’t care for the mobile app
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Lol sorry I’m gonna try to come on a little more. Been busy and I don’t care for the mobile app
No worries bro. Really glad you got your issues resolved. :shaka: Hpd has really been overstepping their bounds lately, the medical marijuana gun confiscation letters was occurring around the same time you got your notice.
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The power of social media helped the MJ letters that went out. I've seen the Hawaii letter shared all over IG across the nation on pro 2a pages.
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The power of social media helped the MJ letters that went out. I've seen the Hawaii letter shared all over IG across the nation on pro 2a pages.
Sure it’s gotten noticed but has it changed anything? Has it put pressure on the current regime?
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Sure it’s gotten noticed but has it changed anything? Has it put pressure on the current regime?
Enough to reverse course on this one issue, but not nearly enough to really change the anti gun climate. Regime change is needed for that to occur.