2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: aieahound on December 16, 2017, 12:46:21 PM
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Might be a repeat of a different thread and it's taken from another thread but it's good to consider and I think deserves it's own thread.
If I carried a firearm I would also carry insurance like USCCA and others offer.
Should buy that anyways. Nra carry guard got better
In HI, you'll be better off with some form of CCW insurance if you have to defend yourself in your own home. You will be arrested, and if you tell the Cops you want to speak to a lawyer before answering anymore questions, who's paying for that? If you qualify for a public defender, it could delay your release waiting on one to see you before arraignment. And how confident are you that defender has any experience defending DGU cases?
It's better to have a professional group you can call when arrested to walk you through what to do and say, recommend a qualified lawyer, and pay the retainer for you.They can also provide bail so you aren't sitting in jail waiting for your family to raise the cash.
If/when the bad guy or his survivors sue you civilly, the policy provides legal fee and liability coverage. It covers you, your spouse and anyone in your home you allow to have access to your firearms (depending on the insurance policy you choose).
NRA Carry Guard:
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Interested in this. Looked into USCCA and other offerings from NRA. Didn’t have insurance when I carried when I lived in WA, but probably should have. Interested in all the different options as well as what pricing people have found while shopping around. I also have umbrella insurance that covers a bunch of things. I’ll have to read closer at the fine print as well as what options I can add.
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Interested in this. Looked into USCCA and other offerings from NRA. Didn’t have insurance when I carried when I lived in WA, but probably should have. Interested in all the different options as well as what pricing people have found while shopping around. I also have umbrella insurance that covers a bunch of things. I’ll have to read closer at the fine print as well as what options I can add.
The only thing I was less than impressed with on the NRA policy is the $250/day loss of work reimbursement limits. That's roughly $60K per year salary level, and I know there are people earning more than that in Hawaii. Otherwise, the free CCW coverage for your spouse and coverage at home for any resident involved in an HD shooting is a great deal other policies charge for.
Policies that claim they pay for your lawyer fees up front while NRA reimburses you leave out the fact NRA pays "supplementary payments." Technically, they can't pay your legal costs for a criminal case unless you win, so they pay you a "supplementary" amount to help with that. My policy states they will pay up front 20% of the max criminal defense limit your policy provides. So, the higher level policy you purchase, the higher the limits, and the higher the up-front payments you'll get. Any allowable legal costs over that amount are reimbursable up to your limits.
Other policies that offer to pay up front will be knocking on the door for you to pay them all that money back if you plead guilty or lose the case in court. Insurance can never pay when your actions are illegal/unjustified.
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BTW, my Carry Guard policy is the $500,000 limit plan, not the highest $1.5M plan. The supplementary, defense and settlement limit is $100,000, and is included in the $500K max.
That means at 20%, I can get $20,000 up front to help with bail and retainer. If I had the $1.5M plan, I'd have $50,000 supplementary money available from the policy. (20% of $250,000 defense limit)
If I get $1M bail on my head, I'll be a guest of the state regardless of how much insurance I have! :P
(https://i.imgur.com/EFDlM2l.png?1)
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Do these insurance plans cover travel and other scenarios such as home defense? Do they have pro 2A lawyers on retainer in Hawaii?
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Interesting topic! I am reading but don't know anything about it and appreciate hearing about those who have it. :shaka:
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I've been contemplating getting the USCCA one for awhile. Now that NRA has offered Carry Guard, I may lean that way. Still need to do more research and would like to hear what others based their decisions on.
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Do these insurance plans cover travel and other scenarios such as home defense? Do they have pro 2A lawyers on retainer in Hawaii?
The NRA policy covers you and your spouse outside the home if you both can legally possess firearms and can legally CCW, which applies to traveling. Any other resident in the home that uses a gun legally or justifiably is also covered. So, kids, grandpa, or whoever else living there who has access to firearms is covered inside the home.
USCCA only covers the policy holder outside the home. Spouse, relatives and kids under 21 under your care are covered inside the home. Spouses can become USCCA members to be covered outside the home at a discounted membership rate.
WEAPONS OF OPPORTUNITY
One thing I didn't mention before. USCCA covers any type of legally owned firearm and any other weapon you might use: knives, tasers, bats, pepper spray, or your hands.
NRA only covers defensive use of guns.
INTENTIONAL ACTS
Almost all homeowners and umbrella policies you already may have likely exclude "intentional acts." Makes sense, because they won't cover arson or shooting someone regardless of justification.
Therefore, when you defend yourself with a firearm, it's considered intentional. These policies will likely deny any claims under that clause in the policy. So, having a policy that is specifically for DGU is not likely to duplicate other liability policies you might already have.
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I was just gonna ask about the “other than firearms” part. Interesting about USCCA and inside and outside of home, and for family members.
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Thanks for that info. Really like the coverage on NRA plan, but the USCAA makes sense for Hawaii when we cannot carry outside the home, where an incident may happen.
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I would buy the USCCA plan as I would far more likely be using a knife and collapsible baton combo to defend myself instead of a gun since we cannot legally carry a firearm in Hawaii. If the NRA plan only covers firearms that won’t be much help outside the home in Hawaii.
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The main reason why I got the NRA one is because it has the spousal endorsement for outside the home at no additional cost. Where as the USCCA, the wife would have to buy her own policy.
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I would buy the USCCA plan as I would far more likely be using a knife and collapsible baton combo to defend myself instead of a gun since we cannot legally carry a firearm in Hawaii. If the NRA plan only covers firearms that won’t be much help outside the home in Hawaii.
Can’t use a batton either
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Can’t use a batton either
Question: Trying to read the law on batton, and seems like it's only illegal to conceal a batton. But open carry or in the home not concealed is fine?
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Question: Trying to read the law on batton, and seems like it's only illegal to conceal a batton. But open carry or in the home not concealed is fine?
I've been told it's a no go
can't remember why though
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Question: Trying to read the law on batton, and seems like it's only illegal to conceal a batton. But open carry or in the home not concealed is fine?
Got to read the whole sentence :rofl:
(a) Any person, not authorized by law, who carries concealed upon the person's self or within any vehicle used or occupied by the person or who is found armed with any
dirk,
dagger,
blackjack,
slug shot,
billy,
metal knuckles,
pistol,
or other deadly or dangerous weapon
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As you can see possession itself (unlike silencers, machine guns ect......) is not illegal. So within your own property you are fine.
Outside tho your taking it easy risk of being arrested if caught and/or facing murder charges if used for self defence
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Got to read the whole sentence :rofl:
(a) Any person, not authorized by law, who carries concealed upon the person's self or within any vehicle used or occupied by the person or who is found armed with any
dirk,
dagger,
blackjack,
slug shot,
billy,
metal knuckles,
pistol,
or other deadly or dangerous weapon
So a batton is defined now as deadly and dangerous. During the Rodney King trial, it wasn't. That's how the cops got off of using a "deadly weapon" charge.
But if it's sitting on the table, i'm not "armed" with it, nor is it concealed.
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So a batton is defined now as deadly and dangerous. During the Rodney King trial, it wasn't. That's how the cops got off of using a "deadly weapon" charge.
But if it's sitting on the table, i'm not "armed" with it, nor is it concealed.
If it’s in your hand in your own home your fine anyway. As I said ownership is not tillegal, possession outside of your home is.
Hawaii defines it as a deadly and dangerous weapon but does not prohibit ownership so It is not in violation of the 2A, Unlike how it is with tasers.
Their is a lot of word play with Hawaii’s laws and many many legal defenses that can be used
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About 15 years ago my son-in-law used a baton and a stun gun to confront a Peeping Tom, the cops came and took the stun gun but gave him back the baton. He struck the Peeping Tom with the baton, but the Peeping Tom ran away. As usual, Hawaii laws are very vague, like stating any dangerous instrument. That leaves a lot of room for interpretation. They could say a Garden Hoe was a dangerous instrument if I struck somebody with it and seriously injured or killed that person.
Also a baton is not a blackjack, slug shot, or billy.
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Batons, billy clubs and blackjacks have a singular purpose. Baseball bats, flashlights and walking sticks have a purpose other than inflicting pain and injury on human beings.
I think you'd have an easier time legally if you convert an object into a weapon of opportunity rather than carrying/possessing an object that was intended exclusively as a weapon.
The judge/jury/DA can interpret your intentions whichever way they wish. The weapon you used may be a factor in that decision.
I'd personally stick with objects that aren't going to raise suspicion, and which don't resides in a legal gray area.
That's just my opinion.
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About 15 years ago my son-in-law used a baton and a stun gun to confront a Peeping Tom, the cops came and took the stun gun but gave him back the baton. He struck the Peeping Tom with the baton, but the Peeping Tom ran away. As usual, Hawaii laws are very vague, like stating any dangerous instrument. That leaves a lot of room for interpretation. They could say a Garden Hoe was a dangerous instrument if I struck somebody with it and seriously injured or killed that person.
Also a baton is not a blackjack, slug shot, or billy.
Deadly or dangerous weapon is defined as it's sole purpose is to cause bodily injury. So a Krabat knife is defined as such. But a knife who's product description says "utility" or camping, etc... is not deadly or dangerous. Also a divers knife is not considered a dagger (sharp on 2 sides) or a dangerous weapon. Knunchucks also is not defined as deadly or dangerous.
Most common is the Ka-Bar TDI knife. But you can open carry it, even open carry a Samurai sword if you wish.
I guess in the end it's the LE that decides if he wants to bust you or not. He could have arrested for the taser, but just chose to take it away instead.
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About 15 years ago my son-in-law used a baton and a stun gun to confront a Peeping Tom, the cops came and took the stun gun but gave him back the baton. He struck the Peeping Tom with the baton, but the Peeping Tom ran away. As usual, Hawaii laws are very vague, like stating any dangerous instrument. That leaves a lot of room for interpretation. They could say a Garden Hoe was a dangerous instrument if I struck somebody with it and seriously injured or killed that person.
Also a baton is not a blackjack, slug shot, or billy.
You have to look at the case law/interpolation at the bottom of the HRS.
"Billy" as used in this section refers to "policeman s club" or "truncheon"; a club-like implement designed for purpose of striking or killing fish is not a "billy"; section extends only to weapons deadly or dangerous to people. 10 H. App. 404, 876 P.2d 1348.
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Similarly, with "electric guns" HRS 134-16 notes that possession is illegal, including in the home. However, if you read the "definitions" section of HRS 134-1 one discovers that electric guns ("livestock prod") intended for animal use are exempted. They are for sale on ebay. Thus, theoretically, one could lawfully carry such an item openly or concealed in public.
§134-16 Restriction on possession, sale, gift, or delivery of electric guns.
Universal Citation: HI Rev Stat § 134-16
§134-16 Restriction on possession, sale, gift, or delivery of electric guns. (a) It shall be unlawful for any person, including a licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, or licensed dealer, to possess, offer for sale, hold for sale, sell, give, lend, or deliver any electric gun.
(This section goes on to list the lengthy exemptions for cops, etc....).
2011 Hawaii Code
DIVISION 1. GOVERNMENT
TITLE 10. PUBLIC SAFETY AND INTERNAL SECURITY
134. Firearms, Ammunition and Dangerous Weapons
§§134-1 to 18
§134-1 Definitions. As used in this chapter, unless the context indicates otherwise:
"Electric gun" means any portable device that is electrically operated to project a missile or electromotive force. It does not include any electric livestock prod used in animal husbandry and any automatic external defibrillator used in emergency medical situations.
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what about a stun-gun, not a tazer, that doesn't shoot a projectile?
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what about a stun-gun, not a tazer, that doesn't shoot a projectile?
Included as an "electric gun."
"Electric gun" means any portable device that is electrically operated to project a missile or electromotive force.
It does not include any electric livestock prod used in animal husbandry and any automatic external defibrillator
used in emergency medical situations.
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what about a stun-gun, not a tazer, that doesn't shoot a projectile?
I don't know but they hurt like hell and definitely piss people off.
ZZZZZTTTTT! :shake:
PIZZA !
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I love pizza! :geekdanc: