2aHawaii
Tools and Uses => Reloading => Topic started by: changemyoil66 on January 08, 2018, 11:28:27 AM
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There is so much info on the net, IDK where to begin. So maybe you guys can help me out.
My reason: My wife and I shoot at the HDF once a month. Some months take the classes., which means we go through 600rds of 9 easily. So my goal is to make my own cheaper ammo. From what I'm told, reloading would cost me about half the price of store bought ammo. 9mm 115gr. So all I would need is a set up for cheap practice rounds. I do not need match grade ammo or anything high quality like that. Just enough to hit a grapefruit size grouping at 25yrds.
So what is the cheapest, but safest set up I can get? Links to the equipment and "heads"/primer/powders would be nice, so I can do the math. I don't know the Gucci brand stuff from the Foodland brand stuff and the cheap Chinese knock offs.
Thanks.
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The cheaper the round, the less it makes sense to reload (less value gotten per round). I generally reload anything larger than 9mm.
The cost per round of 9mm is estimated as follows for plinking ammo, ymmv of course:
$0.10 - bullet https://www.midwayusa.com/s?userSearchQuery=9mm+bullet&userItemsPerPage=48
free - brass
$0.03 - primer any LGS will carry for around $30-40/1000
$0.02 - powder (assume 5 grain load) any LGS will carry for around $30/lb
That comes out to $0.15 per round, which is maybe $0.05-0.06 cheaper than the cheapest bulk 9mm ammo. So it's up to you on whether or not you want to spend the time and money reloading. Generally, the more you shoot, the more it makes sense. If you cast your own bullets, you can probably knock the cost of the bullets down by half maybe? Compare that to something like 38sp, where factory ammo costs $0.35-0.40/round, but costs around the same as 9mm reloaded ammo at $0.15, so the reloaded ammo costs maybe 40% of factory. You can see why the cost savings start to really matter for ammo larger than 9mm.
I personally don't think 9mm is worth it, but would like to say that reloading is worth learning to do, especially if you plan to shoot larger than 22LR/9mm.
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I have mentored a number of newbie reloaders over the years.
Including a few fellows on this forum.
I would be glad to give you an overview of the process and assess your needs.
You would need to come to my house in Waipahu and spend about 2 hours here.
I don't sell stuff so my information is unbiased.
I even got an extra press that you could borrow to learn on.
Pm me if you want to do that.
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The cheaper the round, the less it makes sense to reload (less value gotten per round). I generally reload anything larger than 9mm.
The cost per round of 9mm is estimated as follows for plinking ammo, ymmv of course:
$0.10 - bullet https://www.midwayusa.com/s?userSearchQuery=9mm+bullet&userItemsPerPage=48
free - brass
$0.03 - primer any LGS will carry for around $30-40/1000
$0.02 - powder (assume 5 grain load) any LGS will carry for around $30/lb
That comes out to $0.15 per round, which is maybe $0.05-0.06 cheaper than the cheapest bulk 9mm ammo. So it's up to you on whether or not you want to spend the time and money reloading. Generally, the more you shoot, the more it makes sense. If you cast your own bullets, you can probably knock the cost of the bullets down by half maybe? Compare that to something like 38sp, where factory ammo costs $0.35-0.40/round, but costs around the same as 9mm reloaded ammo at $0.15, so the reloaded ammo costs maybe 40% of factory. You can see why the cost savings start to really matter for ammo larger than 9mm.
I personally don't think 9mm is worth it, but would like to say that reloading is worth learning to do, especially if you plan to shoot larger than 22LR/9mm.
Thanks for the math. I think I forgot the caliber my friend was telling me about, but now that I flashback, he was talking about .45. I won't look into reloading 9mm. Thanks.
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I have mentored a number of newbie reloaders over the years.
Including a few fellows on this forum.
I would be glad to give you an overview of the process and assess your needs.
You would need to come to my house in Waipahu and spend about 2 hours here.
I don't sell stuff so my information is unbiased.
I even got an extra press that you could borrow to learn on.
Pm me if you want to do that.
If I change my mind, I'll hit you up and bring pupu's. Thanks for the offer.
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The cheaper the round, the less it makes sense to reload (less value gotten per round). I generally reload anything larger than 9mm.
The cost per round of 9mm is estimated as follows for plinking ammo, ymmv of course:
$0.10 - bullet https://www.midwayusa.com/s?userSearchQuery=9mm+bullet&userItemsPerPage=48
free - brass
$0.03 - primer any LGS will carry for around $30-40/1000
$0.02 - powder (assume 5 grain load) any LGS will carry for around $30/lb
That comes out to $0.15 per round, which is maybe $0.05-0.06 cheaper than the cheapest bulk 9mm ammo. So it's up to you on whether or not you want to spend the time and money reloading. Generally, the more you shoot, the more it makes sense. If you cast your own bullets, you can probably knock the cost of the bullets down by half maybe? Compare that to something like 38sp, where factory ammo costs $0.35-0.40/round, but costs around the same as 9mm reloaded ammo at $0.15, so the reloaded ammo costs maybe 40% of factory. You can see why the cost savings start to really matter for ammo larger than 9mm.
I personally don't think 9mm is worth it, but would like to say that reloading is worth learning to do, especially if you plan to shoot larger than 22LR/9mm.
i agree with his costs for primer and powder. you might be able to shave some costs on powder if you go with something that is cheaper and also uses a lower charge weight (e.g. titegroup--but this is usually not recommended as a good starting powder for new reloaders).
the quoted price for bullets should come with a caveat. if you plan on loading FMJ bullets, then your price will be higher. if you load copper plated, lead cast, powder coated, or hi-tek coated bullets, then you're looking at the bullets that are well under 10 cents per piece. i would suggest sticking with copper plated and coated bullets, which will usually run you around 6-8 cents per piece. for what you plan on doing, you most likely won't need FMJ bullets.
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Don't do it because it will become an obsession. You'll go to Oldfart's house and see his monster set ups, then start shopping for a Dillon turret system, then you'll start visiting the LGS on a weekly basis to see what they have available for reloading, then you'll be watching YouTube videos of other reloaders (Elvis Ammo, Fortunecookie45LC, and my favorite Johnny's Reloading Bench), then you'll start wondering how you can improve your ammo to make them more accurate, then you'll start wondering where you can get your hands on used lead to cast your own bullets. Do yourself a favor and avoid reloading.
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I have mentored a number of newbie reloaders over the years.
Including a few fellows on this forum.
I would be glad to give you an overview of the process and assess your needs.
You would need to come to my house in Waipahu and spend about 2 hours here.
I don't sell stuff so my information is unbiased.
I even got an extra press that you could borrow to learn on.
Pm me if you want to do that.
Might have to take you up on that (sorry to threadjack :shaka:). Been meaning to look into reloading for some time now, as I tend to shoot some pricey rounds and would love to introduce some cost savings. Plus, I'm the tinkering type and tweaking recoil and velocities sounds attractive to me.
My question though is - is it really worth it for cost/time? I shoot a ton of 9mm but I dont think I'd reload that, as normal cheap factory ammo sale prices have been around $0.20/round. The calibers I'd be looking to reload are 32acp, 357mag, 44mag, 45acp and 45colt for pistol calibers and 556/308 for rifle. For 556 though, it looks to be a similar situation with 9mm where the cost savings may not justify the work.
How easy is it to switch calibers equipment-wise and what would be the best caliber to get a bit of experience with? I shoot 357 the most so it'd be my choice.
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Might have to take you up on that (sorry to threadjack :shaka:). Been meaning to look into reloading for some time now, as I tend to shoot some pricey rounds and would love to introduce some cost savings. Plus, I'm the tinkering type and tweaking recoil and velocities sounds attractive to me.
My question though is - is it really worth it for cost/time? I shoot a ton of 9mm but I dont think I'd reload that, as normal cheap factory ammo sale prices have been around $0.20/round. The calibers I'd be looking to reload are 32acp, 357mag, 44mag, 45acp and 45colt for pistol calibers and 556/308 for rifle. For 556 though, it looks to be a similar situation with 9mm where the cost savings may not justify the work.
How easy is it to switch calibers equipment-wise and what would be the best caliber to get a bit of experience with? I shoot 357 the most so it'd be my choice.
If you factor time into the equation and how much you'd make if you were working instead, the answer most of the time is "no". Reloading should be viewed as another part of the hobby. Some people like it, others hate it. For instance, I reloaded 45colt over the weekend, it took me maybe 1.5 hours to complete 50 rounds, probably saved maybe $20-25 over factory per box (not going to bother doing math). I make way more money than that at my job, and from my side business. Reloading times can be reduced by better equipment that doesn't take as much time as a single stage press & manual weighing of powder, but then you have to factor in the cost of that additional equipment, and whether you shoot enough to justify the investment. I'd hazard a guess that the 50 rounds could be done in 15 minutes or less with a progressive press and a powdermeasure.
Those other calibers are ideal for reloading, and you're correct about 223/556 as well. it's the 9mm of rifles, so to speak.
Part of the beauty of reloading is during ammo shortages, where it's easier to find and turn components into what you want when your desired off the shelf ammo isn't available.
switching calibers is as easy as switching dies and shellplates.
Pistol is easier in a way because the resizing isn't as hard and you dont have to worry as much about the brass getting stuck or other issues. Can be a bit trickier than rifle if you need to apply a decent crimp, which you will want to do for the magnum rounds. Depending on your dies and setups, this may be accomplished in different ways.
Rifle is easier in a way because you dont have to worry about crimping. And probably a 2 die setup versus 3 or 4 dies, one to pop the primer and resize, the second to seat the bullet.
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Also, you should definitely save all your once fired 308 brass. Rifle brass can't be used indefinitely, and has a shorter life than pistol .
Pistol brass can be used until the case neck splits. The less you bell the case neck when expanding, the easier loads, the longer the cases last (in general). How many times is that, not sure... Think I have brass that has been used 20+ times, probably way more than that. I have 2-3 boxes of ppu .38sp that I reuse over and over again. lol Not sure how much pistol brass you have saved up, but you likely won't need hundreds and hundreds of a single caliber. Could look to sell the excess if taking up too much space.
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Might have to take you up on that (sorry to threadjack :shaka:). Been meaning to look into reloading for some time now, as I tend to shoot some pricey rounds and would love to introduce some cost savings. Plus, I'm the tinkering type and tweaking recoil and velocities sounds attractive to me.
My question though is - is it really worth it for cost/time? I shoot a ton of 9mm but I dont think I'd reload that, as normal cheap factory ammo sale prices have been around $0.20/round. The calibers I'd be looking to reload are 32acp, 357mag, 44mag, 45acp and 45colt for pistol calibers and 556/308 for rifle. For 556 though, it looks to be a similar situation with 9mm where the cost savings may not justify the work.
How easy is it to switch calibers equipment-wise and what would be the best caliber to get a bit of experience with? I shoot 357 the most so it'd be my choice.
I reload mostly 44mag and 357mag and 45acp bc I shoot those the most and they are the more expensive rounds that I shoot
I like the ability to load to my preference for each gun I have. i have some smaller guns that the felt recoil is more, so i reload them with less powder. the firearms that handle recoil better i can load hotter.
I reload for both cost and for recoil sensitivity, and somewhat for accuracy.
in time i have learned to like it a lot. its like knitting....for men (and women too). :shaka:
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Honestly, reloading is not a cost-saving practice. If you focus only on the component cost, it may seem that way.10 cents for a bullet, 3 cents for a primer, etc. But you have to factor in the cost of the equipment you buy to reload, and as 2ahavvaii said so well, you also have to value your time. It's not unlike someone flying to Vegas, spending $100 to win $300, and trumpeting about their "windfall" while ignoring the cost of airfare, hotel, and meals that supported their winnings.
Reasons to reload:
1. You shoot obsolete, wildcat, or other forms of hard-to-find cartridges
2. You have lots of time on your hands and are looking for a new obsession
3. You are an Olympic-caliber precision shooter looking to marry your championship-quality firearm to its perfect load
Reasons not to reload:
1. Factory bulk ammo is far cheaper when you factor in equipment costs and time invested
2. You don't have an abundance of spare time
3. The space that will be occupied by your reloading equipment, manuals, and raw supplies could better be used to store actual ammo
4. You are not meticulous and detail-oriented
Don't forget, if you're negligent while loading, the consequences can be pretty severe!
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I love to reload. I find it interesting, relaxing and therapeutic. Some people find it a chore. If all you are trying to do is save a few dollars to reload 9mm I wouldn't bother. I reload 9mm not so much to save some $ but more to make the ammo I want to shoot. I reload 9mm for a Glock, a Sig, a WWII relic and 2 different revolvers. I reload 3 different cartridges for my five pistols. Reduced loads, hot loads, target loads, test loads, it is all part of the hobby. If that interests you then maybe reloading 9mm is for you. But it is not worth the initial layout of funds and time just to save $20-$30 per 600 rounds shot IMHO. Like Stang and others said, if you are reloading for a more expensive cartridge like .357 or something similar then the economics of reloading make more sense to me.
I do reload old military and obsolete cartridges to keep my costs down as well as being part of the hobby. I save around $0.50 to $3.00 a round depending on the retail price if you can find the ammo. Some cartridges are not available on island. If I want to shoot obsolete and oddball cartridges and guns I have to reload.
See this post I made a few years ago:
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=18314.msg166936#msg166936
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Reloading means never having to say "There's a shortage of ammo" ever again.
I don't remember the demand, or prices, for reloading components spiking the way it did for factory ammo in the "Obama common sense gun control" era. Powders were sometimes difficult to find here, but that was more due to "Hawaii" than distributor price or supply. If that's not correct, I'm sure someone here can correct me. That was my impression, though.
Shortages of primers, certain powders and brass were shorter in duration and smaller in price increase than factory ammo. Enough hoarders can cause increased demand in anything.
http://www.theblaze.com/news/2013/07/18/reloading-the-booming-gun-hobby-and-what-it-could-mean-for-the-ammunition-industry
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Reloading means never having to say "There's a shortage of ammo" ever again.
I don't remember the demand, or prices, for reloading components spiking the way it did for factory ammo in the "Obama common sense gun control" era. Powders were sometimes difficult to find here, but that was more due to "Hawaii" than distributor price or supply. If that's not correct, I'm sure someone here can correct me. That was my impression, though.
Shortages of primers, certain powders and brass were shorter in duration and smaller in price increase than factory ammo. Enough hoarders can cause increased demand in anything.
http://www.theblaze.com/news/2013/07/18/reloading-the-booming-gun-hobby-and-what-it-could-mean-for-the-ammunition-industry
I started the powder trade thread and I (and others) were quite active trading powders we had extra of for powders we needed. I also traded primers and bullets. If there is a will, there is a way.
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reloading turned me into a brass hoarder
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My initial reason was cost. Because I shot the big stuff, 357, 44, 45.
Back in the day, 9mm was a joke. Things changed when HPD changed to 9mm in the early 90's
As the other folks said 9mm is so cheap today that it ain't worth reloading.
But if you want to engage the larger calibers on a regular basis, you almost have to load your own.
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Reloading means never having to say "There's a shortage of ammo" ever again.
I don't remember the demand, or prices, for reloading components spiking the way it did for factory ammo in the "Obama common sense gun control" era. Powders were sometimes difficult to find here, but that was more due to "Hawaii" than distributor price or supply. If that's not correct, I'm sure someone here can correct me. That was my impression, though.
Shortages of primers, certain powders and brass were shorter in duration and smaller in price increase than factory ammo. Enough hoarders can cause increased demand in anything.
http://www.theblaze.com/news/2013/07/18/reloading-the-booming-gun-hobby-and-what-it-could-mean-for-the-ammunition-industry
primers and powders were still difficult to get in the early part of 2017, the supply has finally caught up to demand now
and this is since after sandy hook
similarly, .22lr stock is finally back to normal now
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I usually shoot about 200 rounds per week and spend at least 5 hours per week reloading plus rifle cleaning. This includes 30 minutes depriming brass, 30 minutes in ultrasonic, overnight drying, 1 hour resizing, 1 hour trimming/inspection, 3 hours tumbling, 30 minutes sorting/inspection, and 2 hours loading powder/inserting bullets. I also spend several hours per week analyzing the results and figuring out what worked and what didn't.
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PSA: Please don't drink alcohol and reload
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Addictive timely and costly hobby. If you can find a great price on a Dillon, it’s a great machine. Wet Tumbler and hoard on brass.
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PSA: Please don't drink alcohol and reload
Margaritas make the best kind of lubricant for reloading.
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Margaritas make the best kind of lubricant for reloading.
Thats dumb
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i reload because I enjoy it and I can make better ammo than I can buy. Plus it gives me an excuse to lock my wife and kid out of the room.
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WTS: dillon 550 45acp
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=29965.0
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WTS: dillon 550 45acp
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=29965.0
kona
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kona
USPS
FedEx
UPS
Hawaiian AL ....
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Thats dumb
That's for your benefit.
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I'd say a Dillon 550 would be the best press to start. It doesn't auto index so it can work as a single stage. It's very flexible, reloads both pistol and rifles using industry standard dies and maintains a good resale value.
There are some reloaders here that just started as evident in previous posts. I'm not going to swing my dick around and say "Ive been doing this for ___years" but taking your time and understanding how and why things work will pay off in safety and quality. Don't distract yourself and learn to troubleshoot. Focus on manageable variables. Some people learn the hard way but changing many variables at once and trying to find good results to no avail. If you need to take some Ritalin best you step away from the press. Don't be the monkey on top of the football. Be the Vulcan. Take up Oldfarts offer of reloading mentorship.
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I agree that Oldfart's mentorship is the way to go, particularly with pistol reloading and casting, both are not my particular forte. The reality is that there is no one way to reload. Just peruse Midway or WGS to witness the myriad products that are available. The trick is to figure out what works for you.
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I agree that Oldfart's mentorship is the way to go, particularly with pistol reloading and casting, both are not my particular forte. The reality is that there is no one way to reload. Just peruse Midway or WGS to witness the myriad products that are available. The trick is to figure out what works for you.
The myriad of products is whats generally scaring me away. I tend to go a bit overboard and buy things I dont need, which looks like its super easy to do. I was just in security equipment recently and the selection of powders alone is quite daunting.
I'm going to do a bit of research though and start with 44mag/44spl and maybe 357mag/38spl. Do these semi-interchangeable cartridges have similar tooling or do I need separate dies for each? Is it even worth doing the special rounds or can I just give the magnum cases a lower powder charge? I have a ton more magnum brass than special brass, but sometimes its fun to shoot soft loads out of giant revolvers.
Also, what has been all of your experiences sourcing powder and bullets being here in Hawaii?
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The myriad of products is whats generally scaring me away. I tend to go a bit overboard and buy things I dont need, which looks like its super easy to do. I was just in security equipment recently and the selection of powders alone is quite daunting.
I'm going to do a bit of research though and start with 44mag/44spl and maybe 357mag/38spl. Do these semi-interchangeable cartridges have similar tooling or do I need separate dies for each? Is it even worth doing the special rounds or can I just give the magnum cases a lower powder charge? I have a ton more magnum brass than special brass, but sometimes its fun to shoot soft loads out of giant revolvers.
Also, what has been all of your experiences sourcing powder and bullets being here in Hawaii?
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You should drop by and chat. It'll be a lot faster to answer all your questions. And you can see the process yourself.
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Also, what has been all of your experiences sourcing powder and bullets being here in Hawaii?
well, if you were at SEC yesterday, you know that powder supplies are plentiful
many of us here use xtreme bullets
sign up for their email list, they have very frequent sales, especially on major holidays
for example, they regularly offer 10% off and free shipping
for black friday, it was 20% off and free shipping
and christmas/new years it was 15% off and free shipping
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You should drop by and chat. It'll be a lot faster to answer all your questions. And you can see the process yourself.
oldfart is an extremely knowledgeable and patient teacher
he has taught many members of this site
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oldfart is an extremely knowledgeable and patient teacher
he has taught many members of this site
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Thanks for the endorsement. I'm just trying to do my part to help out. When I started shooting pistols, I was fortunate to have the guidance of many old-timers who have since passed away. It would be a waste to have that knowledge die off.
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The myriad of products is whats generally scaring me away. I tend to go a bit overboard and buy things I dont need, which looks like its super easy to do. I was just in security equipment recently and the selection of powders alone is quite daunting.
I'm going to do a bit of research though and start with 44mag/44spl and maybe 357mag/38spl. Do these semi-interchangeable cartridges have similar tooling or do I need separate dies for each? Is it even worth doing the special rounds or can I just give the magnum cases a lower powder charge? I have a ton more magnum brass than special brass, but sometimes its fun to shoot soft loads out of giant revolvers.
Also, what has been all of your experiences sourcing powder and bullets being here in Hawaii?
It's daunting at first, but pretty simple regarding the mix of products.
Buy powder and primers here. Bullets and brass cheaper online or once fired. Use reviews to guide your purchases.
Depending on your firearm, you can likely load "mild to wild". You can do things like upload a sp to double the standard charge or download a mag round to ultra light levels. At first, follow the recommended loads. Even so, if you have a stout revolver like a ruger, its unlikely you'll be able to blow it up by overloading the brass. Those guns are built STOUT.
44sp 38sp you can use and shpuld just buy the mag dies. This is one advantage of using guns that take both. You can just use the mag brass for all your loads low to high if you choose. That is the beauty of reloading
Get a reloading manual, any of the loadputs should be ok to use, people choose different powders on personal preference. You can research that online. Start with lower loadputs and work your way up. Honestly you cannlearn by just watching a YouTube video tutorial for a similar cartridge.
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oldfart is an extremely knowledgeable and patient teacher
he has taught many members of this site
Yes he has. Including me. Even though he made me stand over a hot lead pot for 20+ hours casting boolits for him. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Also, what has been all of your experiences sourcing powder and bullets being here in Hawaii?
SEC has best price for primers. About $36 for brick of magnums. SEC and HGS has best powder prices. WGS has the hard to find powders. Amazon Prime, Brownells and Cabelas have actual free shipping often. Midway charges a $10 fee to Hawaii and it’s always a surprise with Grafs. The best situation is if you catch wind of someone shipping in powder and they’re willing to share part of their pallet but careful, people have been burned (figuratively).
I use the Hornady and Lyman loading manuals. Hodgdon, Ramshot and others are available online.
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Yes he has. Including me. Even though he made me stand over a hot lead pot for 20+ hours casting boolits for him. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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You gained knowledge and I got free boolits. I'm no dummy. :rofl: :rofl:
I'm running low on boolits I need another pidgeon....student
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Remember your lessons, Grasshopper. Wax on, wax off...
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I learned to reload pistol by myself watching youtube videos a long time ago. I had an instructor for rifle, but needed to figure out pistol by myself. When you buy reloading dies, it comes with instructions, but if you've never reloaded before, the instructions might as well be written in greek. lol There's tons of videos like the one below. No need bother with trimming at first. If you measure with a caliper, and the brass is way out of spec, just put it on the side or dump it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGfAr_iXRIM
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I find that many YouTube reloaders have a thick Kentucky accent. Most of the advice is probably based on what their father taught them about reloading so be skeptical of internet advice.
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I find that many YouTube reloaders have a thick Kentucky accent. Most of the advice is probably based on what their father taught them about reloading so be skeptical of internet advice.
that's why you view different sources, and also read through the reloading manual such as provided by hornady to see if they jive. The same can be true of people reloading in hawaii (or anywhere else for that matter)
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I find that many YouTube reloaders have a thick Kentucky accent. Most of the advice is probably based on what their father taught them about reloading so be skeptical of internet advice.
Your reloading misadventure thread is not a good source either.
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Your reloading misadventure thread is not a good source either.
:rofl:
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OldMose recently told me I just got into reloading....I bought a muzzle loader from him. :thumbsup:
Need time and space for actual centerfire reloading.
(Learned that from Aiea78)
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Your reloading misadventure thread is not a good source either.
I never said it was.
In fact, you and Inspector give me the most advice on my thread.
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Something I would consider is looking for crossover recipes for gunpowder so you could build multiple cartridges with the same powder. It saves me on a little storage space & cost. Alliant does this for me with 9mm, 38/357 & 12 gauge and Varget for 308 & 6.5 mm
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Something I would consider is looking for crossover recipes for gunpowder so you could build multiple cartridges with the same powder. It saves me on a little storage space & cost. Alliant does this for me with 9mm, 38/357 & 12 gauge and Varget for 308 & 6.5 mm
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Varget works great for heavy .223 loads.
Alliant RL15 is the same too. Moderate 308 to heavy 223 loads. Win 748 is another versatile powder.
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Something I would consider is looking for crossover recipes for gunpowder so you could build multiple cartridges with the same powder. It saves me on a little storage space & cost. Alliant does this for me with 9mm, 38/357 & 12 gauge and Varget for 308 & 6.5 mm
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Welcome to the forum.
H4895 is another good one. It was the first powder I tried in my Mosin Nagant.
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Something I would consider is looking for crossover recipes for gunpowder so you could build multiple cartridges with the same powder. It saves me on a little storage space & cost. Alliant does this for me with 9mm, 38/357 & 12 gauge and Varget for 308 & 6.5 mm
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
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Welcome to the forum.
Don't forget to get active on the political issues too.
Re. Powder....alliant unique is like your crescent wrench. It works for many things, but not all.
That's why most hobbyist reloaders have multiple types on the shelf.
Like having different screwdrivers.
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Ha, never thought of it that way.
WGS is the only store I've found Unique at.
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Next 2 weeks is a good time to drop by
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Some of my components have already arrived, with the majority of it coming in the next few days :)
I'm a bit concerned about the powder charge in the old 32 being between 2.1 grs as starting and 2.3 grs as max loads per the hodgdon HP-38 load data. I'm new to this, but to me that seems like quite a narrow range to be working in. I did order a Hornady branded powder scale that claims 1/10th grain accuracy so that shouldnt be a problem if I manually weigh out the charges, but who wants to do that.
I have a set of 32acp Lee dies and Lee recommends using the Lee Auto Drum Powder Measure to use with the powder through die. Lee says it can do accurate powder drops at 2 grs an under. We'll see, thats on order too.
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I use the Hornady Bench Scale but can be pricey. I like it because I always need a fan on me and it can weigh accurate charges with the included cover. Otherwise, an open window can affect the accuracy at 0.1gr. Just touching the table can also throw off any scale. To get more accuracy, you have to get one of those ~$1k scales with the glass doors and stuff.
https://www.amazon.com/Hornady-50108-Electronic-Scale-Grain/dp/B004EXPKJA
This scale also works great and is much cheaper. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06W5VXN53
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Some of my components have already arrived, with the majority of it coming in the next few days :)
I'm a bit concerned about the powder charge in the old 32 being between 2.1 grs as starting and 2.3 grs as max loads per the hodgdon HP-38 load data. I'm new to this, but to me that seems like quite a narrow range to be working in. I did order a Hornady branded powder scale that claims 1/10th grain accuracy so that shouldnt be a problem if I manually weigh out the charges, but who wants to do that.
I have a set of 32acp Lee dies and Lee recommends using the Lee Auto Drum Powder Measure to use with the powder through die. Lee says it can do accurate powder drops at 2 grs an under. We'll see, thats on order too.
Don't know much anything about .32acp so YMMV, but with such a small window of safe pressure, maybe look for a better powder choice.
Personally I wouldn't trust throwing powder for such a small window for error.
If you do, weigh every charge.... but that'll take foreevr!
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Don't know much anything about .32acp so YMMV, but with such a small window of safe pressure, maybe look for a better powder choice.
Personally I wouldn't trust throwing powder for such a small window for error.
If you do, weigh every charge.... but that'll take foreevr!
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I think this cartridge needs about 2 grains of fast powder to work the action.
Not many options available.
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I think this cartridge needs about 2 grains of fast powder to work the action.
Not many options available.
I see.. hope the powder meters well. Should be ok
In my experience, Lee throws pretty good with some powders.
At the least, spot check frequently.
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I think this cartridge needs about 2 grains of fast powder to work the action.
Not many options available.
I'm going to try 2.0 gr and 2.1 gr loads and see if it cycles fine to just dip my toes in the water. The gun is heavy (for a 32) with a pretty stout recoil spring, but it is old. Seems like velocities will be under 800 ft/s as barrel length is 3.75". Factory ammo I've been shooting claims >1000 ft/s out of a 4 inch so I think I should be able to take it close to max per hodgdon. Those loads are quite snappy though and I wouldn't mind it softer as long as she runs.
Should have my bench set up in the next few days. Haven't settled on a tumbler setup yet so I'm going to try on that virgin brass before I try once fired. Thanks again oldfart for all the help :shaka:
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I'm going to try 2.0 gr and 2.1 gr loads and see if it cycles fine to just dip my toes in the water. The gun is heavy (for a 32) with a pretty stout recoil spring, but it is old. Seems like velocities will be under 800 ft/s as barrel length is 3.75". Factory ammo I've been shooting claims >1000 ft/s out of a 4 inch so I think I should be able to take it close to max per hodgdon. Those loads are quite snappy though and I wouldn't mind it softer as long as she runs.
Should have my bench set up in the next few days. Haven't settled on a tumbler setup yet so I'm going to try on that virgin brass before I try once fired. Thanks again oldfart for all the help :shaka:
If you are not going to use the gun for SD then you could possibly contact Wolff and ask them if they have a less stout recoil spring so you can run some softer loads.
I also do not reload for this cartridge. Titegroup is a pretty fast powder and might be a good alternative for this cartridge.
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If you are not going to use the gun for SD then you could possibly contact Wolff and ask them if they have a less stout recoil spring so you can run some softer loads.
I also do not reload for this cartridge. Titegroup is a pretty fast powder and might be a good alternative for this cartridge.
While it is a browning design, its not a 1911 and doesnt have any aftermarket support. I'm just glad Wolff even makes an oem spring kit. They do make a + power mag spring for the gun but thats it I think.
Thanks for the recommendation on powder to try; I'll give it a shot (ha ha) if the HP38 doesnt work.
I'm playing around with the crimps now - it seems some 32's headspace off the case mouth, while others use the semi-rim on the case like a revolver. Mine appears to be the revolver type as you can see the little ledge in the barrel to catch the rim. Overcrimped test rounds will chamber identically. I should be able to crimp, but is it necessary outside of just the seating step (Lee die with integral taper crimp)? I have the Lee FCD (its supposed to roll crimp like a revolver) but I believe that to be overkill at this point. I'm manually cycling these dummy rounds a few times to see if the OAL changes dramatically or not.
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While it is a browning design, its not a 1911 and doesnt have any aftermarket support. I'm just glad Wolff even makes an oem spring kit. They do make a + power mag spring for the gun but thats it I think.
Thanks for the recommendation on powder to try; I'll give it a shot (ha ha) if the HP38 doesnt work.
I'm playing around with the crimps now - it seems some 32's headspace off the case mouth, while others use the semi-rim on the case like a revolver. Mine appears to be the revolver type as you can see the little ledge in the barrel to catch the rim. Overcrimped test rounds will chamber identically. I should be able to crimp, but is it necessary outside of just the seating step (Lee die with integral taper crimp)? I have the Lee FCD (its supposed to roll crimp like a revolver) but I believe that to be overkill at this point. I'm manually cycling these dummy rounds a few times to see if the OAL changes dramatically or not.
Oh well, it was worth a try with Wolff. They carry so many springs for old and out of production guns I thought they may have something.
That is interesting to see your 32 acp headspace on the rim. I would try a dummy round or two without a crimp. Then try a couple with a slight taper and see if they chamber properly. I suggest the slight taper anyways. But only because I don't have any experience with this exact cartridge.
I don't have much experience with HP38 yet. I have some but I have not played much with it. I use a lot of Titegroup in numerous cartridges. I find it to be a good all around powder that gives me good consistency and accuracy. It can be a little dirty but not as dirty as other powders like Unique. I looked at the Hodgdon's reloading data and Titegroup seems to provide slightly higher velocities than the other recommended powders except Autocomp. It may feel a little snappier than HP38.
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I sure jacked this thread, didn't I?
Allow me to present a sample of the first batch of cartridges made wholly possible through the impetus of this thread, and the patient guidance of our very own, highly regarded ballistics engineer, oldfart :shaka:
It was my goal to replicate as closely as possible the often lauded 73 gn FMJ factory load by Sellier and Bellot out of the Czech Republic, which functions well in my pistol. The brass colored bullet is the factory S&B and the copper colored is a plated 71 gn Berry's. Matching the crimp and case dimensions took a bunch of tweaking, but I think I managed to get them as close as the limits that my cheap ebay/amazon calipers would allow. They stack in mags, feed, chamber, and eject as well as factory after manually cycling them a few times. I'm using regular CCI small pistol primers, but I want to give Federal a try as well.
Now all I need is some time to see how they shoot. I loaded up 2.1-2.3 gn charges per the Hodgdon manual and manually weighed each of them after they dropped out of the powder measure. I must say, the cheap Lee Auto Drum powder dropper is phenomenally accurate with the HP38. It has very fine adjustments that seem to handle this small range of charges to the point where I'm comfortable running this in a high throughput mode with occasional spot checking.
Materials cost for 100% new is 37 cents/rd (18 cents/rd if you don't include the virgin starline brass) at full retail prices total, exclusive of equipment costs. This is a big win already, as ammo availability locally is poor, and if I can find it, I would normally be set back around 50 cents plus a pop for these little guys.
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I sure jacked this thread, didn't I?
Allow me to present a sample of the first batch of cartridges made wholly possible through the impetus of this thread, and the patient guidance of our very own, highly regarded ballistics engineer, oldfart :shaka:
It was my goal to replicate as closely as possible the often lauded 73gn FMJ factory load by Sellier and Bellot out of the Czech Republic, which functions well in my pistol. The brass colored bullet is the factory S&B and the copper colored is a plated 71g Berry's. Matching the crimp and case dimensions took a bunch of tweaking, but I think I managed to get them as close as the limits that my cheap ebay/amazon calipers would allow. They stack in mags, feed, chamber, and eject as well as factory after manually cycling them a few times. I'm using regular CCI small pistol primers, but I want to give Federal a try as well.
Now all I need is some time to see how they shoot. I loaded up 2.1-2.3 gn charges per the Hodgdon manual and manually weighed each of them after they dropped out of the powder measure. I must say, the cheap Lee Auto Drum powder dropper is phenomenally accurate with the HP38. It has very fine adjustments that seem to handle this small range of charges to the point where I'm comfortable running this in a high throughput mode with occasional spot checking.
Materials cost for 100% new is 37 cents/rd (18 cents/rd if you don't include the virgin starline brass) at full retail prices total, exclusive of equipment costs. This is a big win already, as ammo availability locally is poor, and if I can find it, I would normally be set back around 50 cents plus a pop for these little guys.
oldfart is da man!
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Allow me to present a sample of the first batch of cartridges made wholly possible through the impetus of this thread, and the patient guidance of our very own, highly regarded ballistics engineer, oldfart :shaka:
Oh wow! Congrats! That's awesome for your first try. My first try turned out almost as well yours. I haven't tried to shoot it yet but I'm sure it will be pretty accurate with the truncated nose and all.
(https://vgy.me/ZF5F5C.jpg)
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Oh wow! Congrats! That's awesome for your first try. My first try turned out almost as well yours. I haven't tried to shoot it yet but I'm sure it will be pretty accurate with the truncated nose and all.
(https://vgy.me/ZF5F5C.jpg)
she go
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Heh I didnt have anything that serious happen yet. I did have a problem with the powder-through expander wrecking the mouth on a few cases (not my picture, but same problem) but I believe I tracked that down to inadequate case lube and the expander die getting gunked up with thin brass shavings. It seems the starline brass is slightly longer or has some tolerance differences at the mouth causing occasional light shaving of the mouth area leaving some dust. The once-fired brass doesnt ever do that. Also, I run the rounds through a lee factory crimp die that also resizes the entire round and find that the starline brass often requires more love than once-fired stuff.
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that looks fine to me farknocker :rofl:
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I was about to say that I was picking farknockers brain about the 32 since he is the only other loader with experience. So mahalo to farknocker for the insights.
now the warnings......
Even though the ammo that shdows made looks great, the bullet available is still a plated bullet, so I would not be surprised if it did not shoot as well as factory.
Beyond that, there is even a possibility that the round nose could jam on the feed ramp because it's not a regular jacket. Plated bullets look hard, but are actually pretty soft.
He needs to watch for tumbling due to diameter mismatch.
yall cross your fingers for a happy ending
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that looks fine to me farknocker :rofl:
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I was about to say that I was picking farknockers brain about the 32 since he is the only other loader with experience. So mahalo to farknocker for the insights.
now the warnings......
Even though the ammo that shdows made looks great, the bullet available is still a plated bullet, so I would not be surprised if it did not shoot as well as factory.
Beyond that, there is even a possibility that the round nose could jam on the feed ramp because it's not a regular jacket. Plated bullets look hard, but are actually pretty soft.
He needs to watch for tumbling due to diameter mismatch.
yall cross your fingers for a happy ending
There sure seems to be a lot of gas-passing around these parts. :D
There will be no ending until I'm happy.
I've scoured the internet for other bullet choices that are not back ordered indefinitely right now and there really arent a whole lot of options other than these plated berry's. Another option is Hornady/Sierra but those are $$$ with the final choice being casting my own through a bullet mold. A lot of the commercially available 32 bullets are made for revolvers and are heavier weights than you'd see in an auto. I believe that to be getting way ahead of myself though at this point. If the rounds cycle, I'll be happy. If I can get on paper, thrilled. The tiny crappy 1911 GI style old school sights along with the distances at the pistol range already prove a challenge without throwing in extra variables like these custom loads - wish me luck.
I'm hoping I dont get any feeding issues, but I cant be sure until I live fire. If I load the mag and manually rack the rounds through, it requires minimal effort with no binding feeding to chamber and ejecting. This particular pistol never had any feeding issues with any type of ammo, including blunt little JHP rounds that were considerably shorter in OAL. You are right that the plated bullet definitely isnt as hard as a jacket as it behaves more like plain lead - even the lightest of crimps will leave a noticeable crimp line on the bullet after being seated, crimped, then pulled for inspection.
As for the tumbling due to mismatch, is that bullet diameter to barrel mismatch? Like the bullet is too thin going down the barrel, introduces some back and forth play, then begins to tumble as it exits the barrel?
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There sure seems to be a lot of gas-passing around these parts. :D
There will be no ending until I'm happy.
I've scoured the internet for other bullet choices that are not back ordered indefinitely right now and there really arent a whole lot of options other than these plated berry's. Another option is Hornady/Sierra but those are $$$ with the final choice being casting my own through a bullet mold. A lot of the commercially available 32 bullets are made for revolvers and are heavier weights than you'd see in an auto. I believe that to be getting way ahead of myself though at this point. If the rounds cycle, I'll be happy. If I can get on paper, thrilled. The tiny crappy 1911 GI style old school sights along with the distances at the pistol range already prove a challenge without throwing in extra variables like these custom loads - wish me luck.
I'm hoping I dont get any feeding issues, but I cant be sure until I live fire. If I load the mag and manually rack the rounds through, it requires minimal effort with no binding feeding to chamber and ejecting. This particular pistol never had any feeding issues with any type of ammo, including blunt little JHP rounds that were considerably shorter in OAL. You are right that the plated bullet definitely isnt as hard as a jacket as it behaves more like plain lead - even the lightest of crimps will leave a noticeable crimp line on the bullet after being seated, crimped, then pulled for inspection.
As for the tumbling due to mismatch, is that bullet diameter to barrel mismatch? Like the bullet is too thin going down the barrel, introduces some back and forth play, then begins to tumble as it exits the barrel?
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No worry about tumbling yet. Probably won't happen.
But if it does you'll know it. The bullets will group about 3 feet and hit sideways.
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No worry about tumbling yet. Probably won't happen.
But if it does you'll know it. The bullets will group about 3 feet and hit sideways.
Gotcha. I'll watch out for keyhole impacts.
Check out the keyholing on this target. I heard that "some guy" made gluestick bullets and fired them in his garage with primers. He told me they really come out flying but they keyhole at 2-car garage distances but still punch through 2 layers of thick cardboard :D
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While it is a browning design, its not a 1911 and doesnt have any aftermarket support. I'm just glad Wolff even makes an oem spring kit. They do make a + power mag spring for the gun but thats it I think.
Thanks for the recommendation on powder to try; I'll give it a shot (ha ha) if the HP38 doesnt work.
I'm playing around with the crimps now - it seems some 32's headspace off the case mouth, while others use the semi-rim on the case like a revolver. Mine appears to be the revolver type as you can see the little ledge in the barrel to catch the rim. Overcrimped test rounds will chamber identically. I should be able to crimp, but is it necessary outside of just the seating step (Lee die with integral taper crimp)? I have the Lee FCD (its supposed to roll crimp like a revolver) but I believe that to be overkill at this point. I'm manually cycling these dummy rounds a few times to see if the OAL changes dramatically or not.
I couldn't find the type of .32 ACP firearm you are using in your posts. Which mouse gun are you shooting? Colt 1903?
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I couldn't find the type of .32 ACP firearm you are using in your posts. Which mouse gun are you shooting? Colt 1903?
:thumbsup:
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I couldn't find the type of .32 ACP firearm you are using in your posts. Which mouse gun are you shooting? Colt 1903?
What bullet/brass/primer/powder load did you settle on for your 32 reloads?
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Gentleman, I have good news to report.
They all went bang, and if I did my part, they hit the target and did not keyhole.
Honestly, I can't really tell the difference between the 2.1-2.3 gn powder charges in feel. The 2.3 kinda feels closest in snappiness to the S&B ammo or Winchester JHP, but it could also be in my head because I knew it had more powder in it. There wasn't any difference in the brass as well. Please have a look at the pictures and let me know if you can see signs of me doing something wrong. The cases have some irregularities in them, but the factory ammo also displays the same patterns in the brass. I fired a few rounds with elbows on the table for support, and the only thing I could notice was the point of impact was lower on my loads than the factory stuff. This is good for me, as I normally have to aim biased towards 6 o clock to hit center. Now I can aim true to the sights.
The target picture is comprised 100% of reloads (please excuse the flyers, i just changed grips....errr..hah :oops:) both once fired brass and also new brass.
I'd like to thank you all for giving me a kick in the ass to get going on this. I already told oldfart, but I should have been doing this for years! HUGE thanks to oldfart - without him, I'd still be putting factory lead down range.
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Gentleman, I have good news to report.
They all went bang, and if I did my part, they hit the target and did not keyhole.
Honestly, I can't really tell the difference between the 2.1-2.3 gn powder charges in feel. The 2.3 kinda feels closest in snappiness to the S&B ammo or Winchester JHP, but it could also be in my head because I knew it had more powder in it. There wasn't any difference in the brass as well. Please have a look at the pictures and let me know if you can see signs of me doing something wrong. The cases have some irregularities in them, but the factory ammo also displays the same patterns in the brass. I fired a few rounds with elbows on the table for support, and the only thing I could notice was the point of impact was lower on my loads than the factory stuff. This is good for me, as I normally have to aim biased towards 6 o clock to hit center. Now I can aim true to the sights.
The target picture is comprised 100% of reloads (please excuse the flyers, i just changed grips....errr..hah :oops:) both once fired brass and also new brass.
I'd like to thank you all for giving me a kick in the ass to get going on this. I already told oldfart, but I should have been doing this for years! HUGE thanks to oldfart - without him, I'd still be putting factory lead down range.
OF is the best! Just don't encourage him to show his coconut bra and grass skirt. :tinfoil:
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OF is the best! Just don't encourage him to show his coconut bra and grass skirt. :tinfoil:
...
Hey hey hey.....no make fun.
My daughter says not to judge people by their looks. :shake:
.....
:stopjack:
Wow, the results look better than I expected.
Congratulations, that looks like a happy ending.
How old is that 1903?
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Gentleman, I have good news to report.
They all went bang, and if I did my part, they hit the target and did not keyhole.
Honestly, I can't really tell the difference between the 2.1-2.3 gn powder charges in feel. The 2.3 kinda feels closest in snappiness to the S&B ammo or Winchester JHP, but it could also be in my head because I knew it had more powder in it. There wasn't any difference in the brass as well. Please have a look at the pictures and let me know if you can see signs of me doing something wrong. The cases have some irregularities in them, but the factory ammo also displays the same patterns in the brass. I fired a few rounds with elbows on the table for support, and the only thing I could notice was the point of impact was lower on my loads than the factory stuff. This is good for me, as I normally have to aim biased towards 6 o clock to hit center. Now I can aim true to the sights.
The target picture is comprised 100% of reloads (please excuse the flyers, i just changed grips....errr..hah :oops:) both once fired brass and also new brass.
I'd like to thank you all for giving me a kick in the ass to get going on this. I already told oldfart, but I should have been doing this for years! HUGE thanks to oldfart - without him, I'd still be putting factory lead down range.
are you left-handed?
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HUGE thanks to oldfart - without him, I'd still be putting factory lead down range.
Another convert! Soon you'll be so addicted to reloading that you'll be adding gun powder to your morning coffee.
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OF is the best! Just don't encourage him to show his coconut bra and grass skirt. :tinfoil:
:o
Wow, the results look better than I expected.
Congratulations, that looks like a happy ending.
How old is that 1903?
She turns 105 this year. The serial number would indicate it a Type III, though the actual pistol would suggest its a Type II - not uncommon for there to be out of range serial numbers with leftover parts I hear with Colt. I wish it was in better shape; she was a really good looking piece when new. This one is a Type I but mine basically looked like this with slightly different grips from the factory. It has the cool flame blued accents on the safety, trigger, grip screw, and mag catch. My flame blued-ness is unfortunately heavily faded, pitted, and sad looking.
(http://coltautos.com/images/1903ph_469b.jpg)
are you left-handed?
No, you guessing because of the pattern on the target?
Another convert! Soon you'll be so addicted to reloading that you'll be adding gun powder to your morning coffee.
See attached picture - I did that last night. I believe I might be forming something of an addiction or new journey in life - to reload for all my things :D
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wow
105 yrs old?
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No, you guessing because of the pattern on the target?
yeah, lefties tend to pull to the right
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wow
105 yrs old?
And I plan to continue to shoot the snot out of it :P. I've become quite the bubba gunsmith on this little guy out of necessity and frugality (the pake-ness runs deep) and am confident I can keep her running short of the frame cracking.
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I've been meaning to go to a meeting.
http://hawaiihistoricarms.com/
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yeah, lefties tend to pull to the right
I hate to blame the gun, but its definitely a bit my fault as well. I usually hit high left when missing. Its a very thin piece and has a trigger bar that goes around the mag to trip the sear. Unfortunately, my trigger to frame fitment went south somewhere 75 years ago and shes a bit loose (read: it jingles like a cowboys spurs while holstered and walking, sometimes) there. I annoyingly get some play in all directions in the trigger causing me to push, or more likely pull shots. Next time I have the gun apart I vow to get her tightened up but shes a real pain in the ass to reassemble.
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And I plan to continue to shoot the snot out of it :P. I've become quite the bubba gunsmith on this little guy out of necessity and frugality (the pake-ness runs deep) and am confident I can keep her running short of the frame cracking.
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you were shooting at kokohead 25 yards?
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you were shooting at kokohead 25 yards?
Yea, I really wish I could shoot a bit closer to the target, but I'll take what I can get. I dont think the indoor ranges let you shoot reloads (I never inquired about X-ring) I'm so intimidated with all you seasoned pros shooting one-handed out to the 50. Only maybe 4 of those shots were supported and those ones did not hit center.
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Yea, I really wish I could shoot a bit closer to the target, but I'll take what I can get. I dont think the indoor ranges let you shoot reloads (I never inquired about X-ring) I'm so intimidated with all you seasoned pros shooting one-handed out to the 50. Only maybe 4 of those shots were supported and those ones did not hit center.
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you know that gun wasn't meant to be target shooting past 10 or 15 yards so you doing pretty darn good at 25. :thumbsup:
carry on
and by the way, I don't shoot at 50 yards ever...and certainly not 1 handed :rofl:
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you know that gun wasn't meant to be target shooting past 10 or 15 yards so you doing pretty darn good at 25. :thumbsup:
carry on
and by the way, I don't shoot at 50 yards ever...and certainly not 1 handed :rofl:
It certainly was not meant as a target pistol, thats for sure. These sights are guesswork at best and the front sight is polished blue steel so it almost disappears in indirect sunlight (like at the range, lol)
(http://www.coltautos.com/images/1903h_8164c.jpg)
I'm fairly certain it was mean to be shot one-handed in a point-and-shoot fashion, after you whipped it out of your breast pocket in a dimly-lit card room in the back of an italian restaurant.
If you have old firearms, its kind of fun to look up all the old advertisements.
(http://gunsleague.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/colt-m1903-ad-380-660x495.jpg)
Ah, the good ol' days.
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What bullet/brass/primer/powder load did you settle on for your 32 reloads?
I'll have to check my little black book for the top-secret-.5 MOA-at-2-yards combo but for starters, I use a .75 gr SWC bullet from a custom Lee mold that I found on eBay. I originally pm'd you and said it was 77 gr. but from the looks of the mold, it appears to be 75 gr. I'll have to double check the actual as-cast weight.
(https://vgy.me/vTKYyC.jpg)
(https://vgy.me/j1vH2E.jpg)
(https://vgy.me/yGsheI.jpg)
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you know that gun wasn't meant to be target shooting past 10 or 15 yards so you doing pretty darn good at 25. :thumbsup:
carry on
and by the way, I don't shoot at 50 yards ever...and certainly not 1 handed :rofl:
Both of the 32 ACPs are lousy shots. Neither of them shoot with any degree of accuracy at 25 yards. Not even reasonable accuracy. I could take my Glock, point it at the target and close my eyes and still shoot better with it than my little 32s. It could be my fault, the reloads or a combo of these two factors but I'm leaning toward the idea that these guns weren't designed to shoot accurately beyond 5-7 yards. The short sight radius and virtually non-existent front/rear sight don't help either. IMO, they are still good concealed carry weapons, however, since pin point accuracy is less of a factor in a SD situation.
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It does 6 at a time! All the ones available from the usual suppliers are 2-fers which really put me off on the idea.
Another reason why I'm a bit averse to casting my own lead is, I'm paranoid about lead. Casting seems like its going to involve me being exposed to airborne lead, lead particles all over the place where I cast, lead on my clothing, and lead absorbed through my skin through normal manipulation of the product. I've got two little ones and during my wifes pregnancies (and while trying), I was pretty meticulous about wearing gloves while handling unjacketed ammunition, changing clothes, and washing up after shooting. Probably overkill, but hey, my kids have all their fingers and toes :D
Have any of you lead casters have your lead levels checked in your blood? Am I being too paranoid?
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I use a lead test kit from Amazon to test the surfaces with no significant levels found but I purchase my boolits, not cast them. Children are ten times more susceptible to lead poisoning than adults so I think your fears are founded.
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Both of the 32 ACPs are lousy shots. Neither of them shoot with any degree of accuracy at 25 yards. Not even reasonable accuracy. I could take my Glock, point it at the target and close my eyes and still shoot better with it than my little 32s. It could be my fault, the reloads or a combo of these two factors but I'm leaning toward the idea that these guns weren't designed to shoot accurately beyond 5-7 yards. The short sight radius and virtually non-existent front/rear sight don't help either. IMO, they are still good concealed carry weapons, however, since pin point accuracy is less of a factor in a SD situation.
I dont know how many 32s you have, but you talking about your 1903? I can ring steel with mine almost as often as I can with my G17 which also isnt a precision piece. Check out the barrel on my 1903 - its a miracle I can hit anything :rofl:
But yea, I do not own a gun that is more comfortable to wear than this one. If it was ever used in a defensive situation, it would be up very close I'm sure.
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I also ran into an issue of getting too cocky and trying to go fast in the final crimp and resize. The one on the left you can see the bullet is seated deeper, but no adjustments were made to the die. If you look at the bullet, its got a nice ding in the top from not being seated fully in the shell holder and banging on the edge of the crimp die as the ram was being raised.
Will it make my gun go kaboom from being seated too deeply and crazy pressures or should I just pop it off? I was worried about crimping too much and the pressure being too high in the case, but after I pulled the factory S&B bullet, which was MEGA ULTRA TURBO crimped, it eased my fears. The S&B factory round is FMJ and its crimped so tightly that it creases the jacket and swages the round down to almost a thousandth thinner than the Berrys bullet. Perhaps this is why people claim the ammo feels hotter?
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I also ran into an issue of getting too cocky and trying to go fast in the final crimp and resize. The one on the left you can see the bullet is seated deeper, but no adjustments were made to the die. If you look at the bullet, its got a nice ding in the top from not being seated fully in the shell holder and banging on the edge of the crimp die as the ram was being raised.
Will it make my gun go kaboom from being seated too deeply and crazy pressures or should I just pop it off? I was worried about crimping too much and the pressure being too high in the case, but after I pulled the factory S&B bullet, which was MEGA ULTRA TURBO crimped, it eased my fears. The S&B factory round is FMJ and its crimped so tightly that it creases the jacket and swages the round down to almost a thousandth thinner than the Berrys bullet. Perhaps this is why people claim the ammo feels hotter?
DO NOT fire the one that is seated too deeply
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DO NOT fire the one that is seated too deeply
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Yeah, knock it out with your puller.
I'm not sure how that happens.
Try check the flare on the case. I saw a pic of some of your smashed cases.
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Yeah, knock it out with your puller.
I'm not sure how that happens.
Try check the flare on the case. I saw a pic of some of your smashed cases.
Thanks guys, was going to err on the side of caution anyhow.
That pic wasn't mine oldfart, it happened but I think it's because the flare die was getting gunked with brass dust and lube forcing the case to enter the die crooked.
The seat too deep happened while final crimping. The round wasn't fully in the Shell holder and I smashed the bugger into the side of the die.
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Thanks guys, was going to err on the side of caution anyhow.
That pic wasn't mine oldfart, it happened but I think it's because the flare die was getting gunked with brass dust and lube forcing the case to enter the die crooked.
The seat too deep happened while final crimping. The round wasn't fully in the Shell holder and I smashed the bugger into the side of the die.
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OK then
So what you going to try next? 357? 44?
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OK then
So what you going to try next? 357? 44?
Yea prob work on 357 but I'm going to just order dies for both. Lol I'll just order 45 Colt too why not. Tumbler coming soon and I finally dug out the brass.
Im addicted.
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oldfart tells me the nickel plated cases wont last long - too bad, I've got so many of those, grrr :rofl:
First batch is going to attempt to replicate 38+p in mag cases, starting at the recommended top end load for a 38+p in a 38spl case. Apparently these plated Xtreme bullets have been known to handle at or near full mag pressures, but I'm not going to push these, and just use them as plinkers.
Only thing I'm a bit curious on with these is the crimp. For full mag loads, I know I need to roll crimp pretty heavily in the cannelure so the bullets dont jump out, but what about lower power? I'd rather keep the same crimp so I dont have to readjust the final crimp die when switching between mag and special, but not if its going to create a damaging high pressure situation or cause accuracy to suffer noticably.
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I have those bullets and the groove is very shallow.
But if you get up to midrange speeds (1000fps) you will need a fairly heavy crimp to prevent jumping.
That would be a bad thing in a revolver.
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I have those bullets and the groove is very shallow.
But if you get up to midrange speeds (1000fps) you will need a fairly heavy crimp to prevent jumping.
That would be a bad thing in a revolver.
Yea, the cannelure on these bullets seem more like decoration than functional to me, to be honest. At best, a zone to aim for and a gauge to visually check depth. I have the lee FCD roll crimping to what Lee says would be a 3/4 of a full roll crimp. If I try to do a full crimp, it will really slice into the plating more than I'm comfortable with. With the crimp on these, I cannot remove the bullets using the hammer inertial puller. I've been having to mangle the bullet to pull them using a locking pliers and the press to muscle the bullet out of its crimp and neck tension for inspection. I will be testing these single shot at first with two rounds loaded, while continuously keeping one round loaded to see if it jumps at all.
These are attempts at 38+P stepping up 4.6 to 4.8 gr HP38 (Hodgdon says 4.6 gr max for 38 length case) with 158 gr plated Xtreme SWC on nickel plated federal brass and regular SPP. We're barely looking at 800 ft/s on these as I'll be firing out of 4" and 6" barrels. I'm interested to see how the nickel plated cases hold up - trying to keep the flares and crimps at absolute minimums.
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Pretty nice looking.
At low speeds I don't think you have a jumping problem because those are plated and thus have no lube to make them slippery.
Unlike traditional lead bullets.
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All of the rounds went bang nicely. Closer to the top end load, it feels pretty similar in power and speed to a 38+P, but you can really tell the powder is different with the HP38 than factory 357 or even 38spl loadings. A little funny shooting a revolver that kinda snaps like a 380/9mm now rather than a palm bruiser 357. Also, the point of impact was higher than a normal 38spl+P, which I thought unusual, but these might be moving faster than I thought. These SWC bullets do make nice clean holes in the target. Makes it hard to see impacts on the shoot-n-see targets I use, as it doesnt flake the black top layer off as much as other bullet types.
I really didnt get much conclusive accuracy data though - I was shooting like crap today for whatever reason. Just one of those days where you start to doubt everything and start messing with the windage and elevation (when I probably didnt need to). It wasnt the gun or the reloads though, I dont think, as I brought two other guns and shot them equally poorly :rofl:.
Edit: I also brought the calipers to test for bullet jumping, and theyre stuck in there good. Will test similarly when I load full magnums.
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Slower bullets impact higher from revolvers.
Not so much from semiautomatics
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Slower bullets impact higher from revolvers.
Not so much from semiautomatics
:thumbsup: :shaka:
I noticed out of the 32 that slower=lower and this going opposite that was confusing me. I was shooting out of a 6" barrel today.
Only thing I can think of is that the heavy bullet going slower down the barrel, combined with the snappy powder, causes the muzzle to flip more as the bullet exits even though it doesnt have substantial recoil. I suppose out to 50, the bullet drop would negate that trend and it would likely start to hit lower than the faster bullets.
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Yep that's the theory. Interesting, huh?
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Yep that's the theory. Interesting, huh?
You think you know guns a little, and there's always something new around every corner.
Anyway, I want to spice it up to around 1050 ft/s but I'm not sure if I should jump to mag primers and a low end charge of H110/WW296 or try something like 5.4 gr unique. Just bump up the grains of HP38? I seem to be near max useful charges in this application.
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You think you know guns a little, and there's always something new around every corner.
Anyway, I want to spice it up to around 1050 ft/s but I'm not sure if I should jump to mag primers and a low end charge of H110/WW296 or try something like 5.4 gr unique. Just bump up the grains of HP38? I seem to be near max useful charges in this application.
Be careful with low end loads of H110/296. Not saying not to use the recommended low charge from Hodgdons. Just don’t go lower. H110/296 have issues when going below the recommended minimum. Not saying you were going to do it, just be careful is all I am saying.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?22288-H110-reduced-loads
I would also use magnum primers with H110/296.
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Be careful with low end loads of H110/296. Not saying not to use the recommended low charge from Hodgdons. Just don’t go lower. H110/296 have issues when going below the recommended minimum. Not saying you were going to do it, just be careful is all I am saying.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?22288-H110-reduced-loads
I would also use magnum primers with H110/296.
Yup, I've read the warnings about that.
Something about the pressure being too low for full ignition of the powder and you could get a squib. I wasn't sure how light they we're talking though but I'm guessing it was well under the mins.
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I was exploring my computer and rediscovered some old polaroids
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32 acp, i would weigh. and start on the low side, that gives you some room for error and you dont load too hot.
i think starting with something like .38sp in a 357 revolver is easier to work with for someone brand new. *Deleting bad advice*
honestly with standard 38sp loads, you dont really need to worry much about a crimp. 357 full loads yeah. 38sp+ loads, maybe but depends. You can get away with using a mild taper/roll crimp.
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You can screw up and literally fill the entire 38sp casing with powder, and it shouldn't cause issues for the revolver.
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ummmm
Better rethink that
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ummmm
Better rethink that
sorry, yeah, that was a really bad exaggeration. the revolver would handle the charge. but the case likely wouldn't stand up to it. Easy to accidentally double charge 38 too since the case is mostly empty. keep magnum charges to 357 casing, and don't exceed +p loads. It also can be really bad to accidentally use the wrong powder.
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I was exploring my computer and rediscovered some old polaroids
Is a Polaroid what you get when you sit on a block of ice?
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sorry, yeah, that was a really bad exaggeration. the revolver would handle the charge. but the case likely wouldn't stand up to it. Easy to accidentally double charge 38 too since the case is mostly empty . It also can be really bad to accidentally use the wrong powder.
Actually your advice would be good if you were referring to using Trail Boss. I fill my 38spl cases to under the bottom of the bullet using Trail Boss. It is a very enjoyable load to shoot.
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Actually your advice would be good if you were referring to using Trail Boss. I fill my 38spl cases to under the bottom of the bullet using Trail Boss. It is a very enjoyable load to shoot.
I was not, unfortunately. I do appreciate the correction. And I'm guessing that even with trail boss, it would be a bad idea to accidentally compress the load.
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Is a Polaroid what you get when you sit on a block of ice?
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:rofl:
I stand up when I reload now
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32 acp, i would weigh. and start on the low side, that gives you some room for error and you dont load too hot.
i think starting with something like .38sp in a 357 revolver is easier to work with for someone brand new. *Deleting bad advice*
honestly with standard 38sp loads, you dont really need to worry much about a crimp. 357 full loads yeah. 38sp+ loads, maybe but depends. You can get away with using a mild taper/roll crimp.
:shaka:
I think I got lucky and nailed the 32acp on the first go. The cheap lee auto drum measure can do my 2.3 gn charge for hundreds of rounds with more consistency than my powder balances can possibly pick up (I'd need one additional decimal resolution in grains). When I first experimented, I weighed 100% of the powder drops and every single one came out spot on.
I took the 32 to the silhouette range last weekend and put a few hundred reloads through it. It has become my best shooting, non-match/target gun with this load. The recoil impulse is sweet and accuracy at these ranges is extremely unexpected. I can ring the small plates at 50 with regularity and even managed to hit the big 75 plate 7/8 times in the mag on "rapid fire" (fastest allowable). At 75, I have to hold about 8-10" high. Out to 100, I cant hit any of those plates and even if I did, it would have so little energy the hit wouldn't make a sound loud enough for my earmuffs to pick up. Already at 75 its lost a lot of energy and the hits are soft. I'd say I'm totally 100% satisfied for now just leaving good enough be on that one.
As for my 38/357 project, it appears I am going to have to play around a bit more with bullet weights, powder types, and powder charges to get what I want. I friggin love learning new things and this reloading bug has hit me hard. One of my initial goals was to reproduce both full fire-breathing magnum loads along with soft shooting loads, but I'd ideally like to have my POA be POI from 25-50. I don't know if I'm chasing a fantasy or what, but I cant stand the 6 o clock hold and want both heavy and light loads to hit at the same place :P. My revolver has those bomar type rear sights so I had it zero'd to give me POA=POI with 38s AND hot 357s from 25-50. 357 are like lasers even out to 100 though where the 38 drops off hard after 50, and that behavior was predicable with factory loads.
Looks like this guy is probably going to be picking up a few different types of powders this weekend.
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I was exploring my computer and rediscovered some old polaroids
https://youtu.be/Ve04-BcEP94
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:rofl:
I stand up when I reload now
Me too. :o :o :o
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I wanted to check out what the top end loadings for HP38 were like for 357 before I moved on to other powders, and I found a sweet spot in what I would guess is an ultra-light magnum? Anyway, point of aim at 25 yards is where she hits and the recoil impulse is pleasant enough for me to shoot ~125 rounds in a row and accuracy from a rest is around 3 in. 125 magnums sure would be pricey factory rounds before reloading, but now I'm banging on them like they're a box of minimags, yay!
oldfart was right again. Check out the cracked nickel plated cases and the one bullet jump. The cases that cracked fired normally and accurately (one hit bullseye) but were difficult to extract. The bullet jump jammed up the cylinder such that it would not let the round enter the firing position, but no damage or anything (could be dangerous in rapid fire, bent or more likely cracked trigger bits - $$$). I also checked for bullet jump with calipers but none moved even a ten-thousandth except the one that cracked. I only loaded the low end charges in the nickel cases but I guess these nickel cases might now relegated to 38 special loadings. These cases were twice or thrice fired. I loaded hotter in brass and all those cases looked so nice I could probably just reload them without cleaning. Thoughts?