2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: Platinum808 on January 13, 2018, 08:16:42 AM
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Not a drill get ready!!! :shaka:
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Anyone have more info on this?
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??? Is this real? We are stuck indoors at work. :P
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Drill.
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We did not hear any sirens. Everyone here just got the text message, or heard the automated radio and tv messages. :o
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Per Vern Miyagi, this is a drill.
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deleted...
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Okay guys you can put your guns back into the safe along with your bugout bags. No red dawn scenario. Sorry.
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Per Vern Miyagi, this is a drill.
yup, am hearing from someone in the know, definitely false alarm
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Maybe we can now get some pro-gun
people elected. Since most the democrats
will be dead in a few minutes.
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:rofl: :rofl:
Maybe we can now get some pro-gun
people elected. Since most the democrats
will be dead in a few minutes.
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Anyone not get the alert? I didn't and several others I know. Can't figure out why.
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
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This is what I saw, both iPhone and Android on AT&T and Verizon. Someone got some 'splainin to do.
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...and nvm. Just got the false alarm message. Good reminder to prep your stuff and double check it.
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Anyone not get the alert? I didn't and several others I know. Can't figure out why.
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
me and my mom too
different models of iPhone, ATT
alert notifications are on for both
just got the all clear alert
funny, my mom didn't
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??? ??? ???
1) scheduled test/drill gone wrong?
2) system fault that sent automated messages incorrectly?
3) hacked alert system...N Korean's testing us...(dunn, dunnn, dunn dramatic sound effects) :crazy:
4) other?
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me and my mom too
different models of iPhone, ATT
alert notifications are on for both
just got the all clear alert
funny, my mom didn't
Verizon s6 here. So weird. Didn't get false alarm message either.
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
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KITV must have decided to call their news team in to work. They were saying it was "inadvertent," and that the cause would be investigated.
Friday night hangover at the Emergency Management Agency?
38 minutes between first message and second ...
(https://i.imgur.com/KtKHhuy.png?1)
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??? ??? ???
1) scheduled test/drill gone wrong?
2) system fault that sent automated messages incorrectly?
3) hacked alert system...N Korean's testing us...(dunn, dunnn, dunn dramatic sound effects) :crazy:
4) other?
5) "I wonder what this red button does?"
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No false alarm message on T mobile and network was immediately down. No internet and not even texts getting through. Phone started working again but no all clear message yet. Thinking about getting a different carrier.
In any case turned on the HAM radio and found out pretty quick it was a false alarm. For the operators there it was a great shakedown test to find out what wasn't working and I'm sure tomorrow night's practice net is going to be a lot more interesting than usual.
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No false alarm message on T mobile and network was immediately down. No internet and not even texts getting through. Phone started working again but no all clear message yet. Thinking about getting a different carrier.
In any case turned on the HAM radio and found out pretty quick it was a false alarm. For the operators there it was a great shakedown test to find out what wasn't working and I'm sure tomorrow night's practice net is going to be a lot more interesting than usual.
We have a real issue when it comes to relying on cell phones in an emergency. We saw this during tsunami warnings. Everybody just HAS to call everyone they know to see what's up. It completely jams the cellular services, and nobody can get through.
No matter how many times the state warns to only use the phones for real emergency calls, people don't care.
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No false alarm message on T mobile and network was immediately down. No internet and not even texts getting through. Phone started working again but no all clear message yet. Thinking about getting a different carrier.
In any case turned on the HAM radio and found out pretty quick it was a false alarm. For the operators there it was a great shakedown test to find out what wasn't working and I'm sure tomorrow night's practice net is going to be a lot more interesting than usual.
Interesting.
I have tmobile and received all Alerts and was able to use all features/functionality, including phone, text, internet, pornhub (wait, what?).
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With new computer technology it is easy to accidentally send out an alert. Don't ask me how I know this.
Here are some quick ways to tell:
Turn to KSSK. They are a primary emergency alert station
Turn on your TV to most any local station. A real national threat would override the audio with a constant audio broadcast.
Listen for those sirens.
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Who knows? For all we know there was a real launch and we shot it down. The government wouldn't warn us if there were only a matter of mins before a strike
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Interesting.
I have tmobile and received all Alerts and was able to use all features/functionality, including phone, text, internet, pornhub (wait, what?).
No shame in getting in a last wank before the EOTW. Some people are going to go out with a lot less dignity than that. As far as signal it might have just been my tower that crashed. I'm pretty close to Waikiki so that's probably why.
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Who knows? For all we know there was a real launch and we shot it down. The government wouldn't warn us if there were only a matter of mins before a strike
NK and SK are in peace talks right now. Unless some really rogue faction took over then it's highly unlikely.
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No false alarm message on T mobile and network was immediately down. No internet and not even texts getting through. Phone started working again but no all clear message yet. Thinking about getting a different carrier.
In any case turned on the HAM radio and found out pretty quick it was a false alarm. For the operators there it was a great shakedown test to find out what wasn't working and I'm sure tomorrow night's practice net is going to be a lot more interesting than usual.
My wife has T-Mobile, no alert and phone calls weren't working. She was receiving texts.
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My wife has T-Mobile, no alert and phone calls weren't working. She was receiving texts.
I didn't try to make a phone call but assumed that wasn't working either. What part of the island?
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Anybody else get this alert?
(https://i.imgur.com/P8gMYjX.jpg?1)
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When there are emergency situations, use text messages. The wireless infrastructure can relay those few bytes of data quickly.
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5) "I wonder what this red button does?"
:rofl: :thumbsup:
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When there are emergency situations, use text messages. The wireless infrastructure can relay those few bytes of data quickly.
That is great advice. Didn't think about that option. :thumbsup:
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Our T-mobil worked.
Family called/text.
I said I was rather "busy " and hung up. :shake:
Mainland family was also first to tell us it was a "mistake" (negligent alert ?) :wacko:
Hopefully it was Inoye, Ing or other idiot that wondered what that button was for.
If anything at all it shows that I, of all people should have been more prepared for this scenario. :(
It's always been about tsunami/fire (immediate grab BOB and go).
Hurricane (hours), Financial/social collapse (days)
I tried to take advantage of the few remaining minutes to "hoard" extra guns, food and clothes before bug out and was over by 3 minutes.
Easy fix, but disappointed.
Now they are saying it was an exercise ! :wtf:
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Great discussion on Diamond Head repeater right now. People were turned away from emergency shelters. Some people were hiding their kids in storm drains. What's the point of emergency warning if there's nowhere to go?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LRF2-d2CjM
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So someone pushed the wrong button on a shift change. ???
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So someone pushed the wrong button on a shift change. ???
Maybe they should put a cover over the button...
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Shatz was on CNN slamming the Ige and his administration. He made the point a few times. Guess he’ll be running for Governor.
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The alert woulda happened minutes into the first round at KHSC. I wonder what that was like to hear everyone's phone going off that you have 15 minutes to kiss your family goodbye?
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Tulsi blamed Trump :rofl: :crazy:
https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/952258717361287170 (https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/952258717361287170)
That's all our Democrats do
cannibalize each other and blame
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Tulsi blamed Trump :rofl: :crazy:
That's all our Democrats do
cannibalize each other and blame
....
I heard that. I couldn't believe she actually said that.
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Average cardio workout for the state of Hawaii today. Who needs pilates?
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....
I heard that. I couldn't believe she actually said that.
It's a fair point. When he's talking about who's button is bigger it may provide great twitter theater, but there are real life and death consequences. Now we know how it feels to have our lives toyed with.
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Tulsi blamed Trump :rofl: :crazy:
That's all our Democrats do
cannibalize each other and blame
CNN had a Democrat on just now. He immediately questioned Trumps response, if and how he was informed, etc. Why people don’t see right through that stuff is beyond me. Goes back to the irrational response to Trump hate. Like ones who overreact and call for Hawaii civil defense to be scrapped.
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CNN had a Democrat on just now. He immediately questioned Trumps response, if and how he was informed, etc. Why people don’t see right through that stuff is beyond me. Goes back to the irrational response to Trump hate. Like ones who overreact and call for Hawaii civil defense to be scrapped.
It's not the golf course thing that bothers me, rather the stupid unnecessary escalation. Why are we even talking about war with NK? As long as we leave them alone they aren't going to do anything.
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It's not the golf course thing that bothers me, rather the stupid unnecessary escalation. Why are we even talking about war with NK? As long as we leave them alone they aren't going to do anything.
that's not true
We don't know what they'll do if they were left alone. No one knows as they are so unstable. They have a hard time feeding their people. Their economy sucks.
So our state fucks up and the blame shifts to Trump. there has to be a time when our people will see though all this BS. Of course, let's coddle our Democratic leadership cuz they can't do anything wrong.
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It's not the golf course thing that bothers me, rather the stupid unnecessary escalation. Why are we even talking about war with NK? As long as we leave them alone they aren't going to do anything.
I wasn’t referring to the golf course thing. I couldn’t care less where he was.
Who’s talking war with NK? The WH has stated that they don’t want regime change. Just stopping of the continued development of nuclear weapons. Is war a possibility? Sure. But I don’t agree with your opinion that if NK is left alone that “they aren’t going to do anything”.
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I didn't try to make a phone call but assumed that wasn't working either. What part of the island?
We're in Kakaako
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
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The alert was a mistake.
The fact that few broadcasters relayed the alert over the Emergency Alert System (EAS) was a total failure.
There's no step in the EAS to verify the messages transmitted to them. They are supposed to immediately activate the EAS to put the alert out over TV and radio.
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Maybe we can now get some pro-gun
people elected. Since most the democrats
will be dead in a few minutes.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: sorry we’d never be that lucky. Just got done watching that scum bag Ige and his minions making excuses..... of course that fat pig hanabatta was on TV politicizing how, if elected (more like expects to be elected) will “fix” everything... and yes Hironobozo was giving her two pounds of horse shit opinions. Wish they would all just F.O.A.D.
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Tulsi blamed Trump :rofl: :crazy:
That's all our Democrats do
cannibalize each other and blame
That's not true.
In order to void the plethora of upcoming lawsuits (to be paid by the public ), Hawaii Government Dems are giving away free kittens and coloring books. :D :D :D
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Dip shit Esperro is giving his two cents an KITV.... throwing up in my mouth....
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I can only imagine how this investigation is going to be handled.
There will be a request for Federal money.
We'll spend that money on "local" investigators (mainland firms)
We''ll conclude that it was Trump's fault.
No one will be fired.
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I'm so proud of my 9 year old son. When he heard about the alert, he quickly grabbed his bug-out bag. When I told him it was a false alert and to stand down, he put his bag back in the closet, grabbed a piece of paper and sat down and started writing something. When i asked him what he was doing, he said he was writing out his resume so that he would be prepared when the State announces that it has an opening for the position of Director of the Hawaii State Civil Defense Agency.
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So far, this is the "Dumbest Tweet of the Day: Celebrity Edition" -==>>
(https://i.imgur.com/8PsbRlj.jpg?1)
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We not only got the warnings over the cell phones and TV, we also got a warning over our landline. I was pretty sure something was up when the weather station, local TV and radio stations were not in emergency broadcast mode.
After the whole thing was over I dropped my wife off at the hair salon. She said some of the beauticians were saying people were driving crazy fast on the H1. Then I went to Costco and they opened up 20-25 minutes late because of the warning.
I texted my family and some thought I was trying to play a joke on them. Until I told them to turn on CNN....
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that's not true
We don't know what they'll do if they were left alone. No one knows as they are so unstable. They have a hard time feeding their people. Their economy sucks.
Might as well be describing United States, and like them we have nothing to gain and everything to lose by escalating to conventional/nuclear war. Doesn't make any sense to have a button/dick measuring contest on Twitter when the lives of millions are at stake.
http://thehill.com/policy/international/368046-trump-officials-debating-possibility-of-targeted-strike-against-north
Not unless you don't care about those barbecued millions because security will whisk you away to some underground bunker where you can work out our Strangelove fantasies of repopulating the planet with a plethora of young attractive bikini models.
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That's not true.
In order to void the plethora of upcoming lawsuits (to be paid by the public ), Hawaii Government Dems are giving away free kittens and coloring books. :D :D :D
don't we already have a problem with feral cat "colonies"?
Panda Express can't open restaurants fast enough
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Might as well be describing United States, and like them we have nothing to gain and everything to lose by escalating to conventional/nuclear war. Doesn't make any sense to have a button/dick measuring contest on Twitter when the lives of millions are at stake.
http://thehill.com/policy/international/368046-trump-officials-debating-possibility-of-targeted-strike-against-north
Not unless you don't care about those barbecued millions because security will whisk you away to some underground bunker where you can work out our Strangelove fantasies of repopulating the planet with a plethora of young attractive bikini models.
No.
The United States is nothing like NK. Our economy is good. Im up over 30% on my very conservative portfolio. I can go to Starbucks, buy a caramel frappuccino and type on 2ahawaii about stuff - unregulated by the govt. I only VPN if I need to. Maybe I'll go enjoy more American capitalism by going to McDonalds or enjoy my 2a rights at Kokohead. I can talk shit about our POTUS if I want to and not be in fear of being killed with a mortar or anti aircraft guns. Celebrities and the MSM do this everyday! You think they can talk about Kim Jung Un in NK like that? Imagine if Schitz and Hanabata talked the way they did about Kim Jun Un in NK. No wait I take that back - they might relish in his leadership so that they can rise in the NK political landscape.
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With all the Political hacks getting Free TV Time, I'm surprised I didn't see Doug Chin, Bet he will holds press conference, so he can get on all 3 channels.
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I just watched Ige's press conference. I didn't hear a single word about the human (it was human error) who committed the error being held accountable. all I heard about was process, more process, which translates into bureaucracy, obfuscation, etc.
that's our elected leadership: no accountability.
very simple: the clown who pushed the button in error needs to be removed from that position, and I don't mean him/her being "promoted out of the job". optimistically, the responsible human should be fired, but this is Hawaii and govt civil service, firing is perhaps a "bridge too far".
this happened at shift change? are they saying the clown pushed the button, and then went home? WTF! he probably thought it was funny. maybe it was his last day at work before retirement?
investigation? hell no, they need to make a movie about this. not sure if it's a comedy, or a tragedy because of the seriousness of the repercussions. but, realistically, there will probably be a cover-up that equals the Las Vegas shooter secrecy.
I knew it wasn't a real alert, Kim Jong Un isn't ready to send a nuke missile to Hawaii just yet, doesn't have the technology down. maybe in 3-5 years, but not today. so if it was real, it would've been somebody' else's nuke missile, and the main candidates who are capable would be Russia or China. and it would be submarine launched.
Putin wouldn't do that, he's BFF with our President, thank goodness. now, the Chinese, hmm, they are rushing to prove armed world power status. especially with all the ruckus in the South China Sea. a rogue general/admiral pissed off at the central communist party, he didn't get his membership card with Exalted Status?
My bet would be, that if there was indeed a real nuke missile inbound for Hawaii, it probably says "Made In China". and if you live on Oahu, don't bother doing anything, unless you're calling your financial mgr to tell him to transfer everything to your ex-wife (whom you can't stand) who now lives in Wisconsin (or something like that).
if you've been to the nuclear bomb memorial in Japan, you know, for us, it's Game Over. the unlucky ones are the ones that survive. sad but true.
nuff said, for now.
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The government wouldn't warn us if there were only a matter of mins before a strike
That is where the real issue lies.
Today, everyone in Hawaii is really lucky that it was a false alarm for whatever reason. Next time, it may be the real thing. The issue is not about improving the missile defence or civilian alert systems or trying to get Hawaii to increase its emergency food reserves.
The real issue people living in Hawaii and more so on Oahu should be starting to think about is the question of whether having so many military assets in Hawaii, particularly on Oahu is really a great idea. Unless you have access to the underground or in-mountain bunkers the military possesses, no amount of preps or survival gear will matter in the case of a nuclear strike resulting in HECO going down, radiation contamination of our soils and water supply, shipping companies not wanting to risk coming to Hawaii in the aftermath, and your own neighbors who will be ready to kill you for all of your preps, since they did not make the efforts to prepare for themselves.
The elderly, disabled, prescription/dialysis dependent, illegal drug user, and every other man, woman, and child living in Hawaii will always live in fear of as well as surviving a nuclear attack, unless the US military makes the right decision of relocating its assets to some other island location. If they can find the money to pay for the every increasing budget of the rail for the next 10+ years, no one can say they can not find the money to keep its populace out of harm's way.
And for FEMA, forget about them...
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the unlucky ones are the ones that survive. sad but true.
nuff said, for now.
That’s my general feeling. If the day ever comes where Oahu is attacked, it’s those left trying to make it through the aftermath who are in for the nightmare.
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That is where the real issue lies.
Today, everyone in Hawaii is really lucky that it was a false alarm for whatever reason. Next time, it may be the real thing. The issue is not about improving the missile defence or civilian alert systems or trying to get Hawaii to increase its emergency food reserves.
The real issue people living in Hawaii and more so on Oahu should be starting to think about is the question of whether having so many military assets in Hawaii, particularly on Oahu is really a great idea. Unless you have access to the underground or in-mountain bunkers the military possesses, no amount of preps or survival gear will matter in the case of a nuclear strike resulting in HECO going down, radiation contamination of our soils and water supply, shipping companies not wanting to risk coming to Hawaii in the aftermath, and your own neighbors who will be ready to kill you for all of your preps, since they did not make the efforts to prepare for themselves.
The elderly, disabled, prescription/dialysis dependent, illegal drug user, and every other man, woman, and child living in Hawaii will always live in fear of as well as surviving a nuclear attack, unless the US military makes the right decision of relocating its assets to some other island location. If they can find the money to pay for the every increasing budget of the rail for the next 10+ years, no one can say they can not find the money to keep its populace out of harm's way.
And for FEMA, forget about them...
so after removing the military who provides us with early warning, how would Hawaii detect a missile launch?
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That is where the real issue lies.
Today, everyone in Hawaii is really lucky that it was a false alarm for whatever reason. Next time, it may be the real thing. The issue is not about improving the missile defence or civilian alert systems or trying to get Hawaii to increase its emergency food reserves.
The real issue people living in Hawaii and more so on Oahu should be starting to think about is the question of whether having so many military assets in Hawaii, particularly on Oahu is really a great idea. Unless you have access to the underground or in-mountain bunkers the military possesses, no amount of preps or survival gear will matter in the case of a nuclear strike resulting in HECO going down, radiation contamination of our soils and water supply, shipping companies not wanting to risk coming to Hawaii in the aftermath, and your own neighbors who will be ready to kill you for all of your preps, since they did not make the efforts to prepare for themselves.
The elderly, disabled, prescription/dialysis dependent, illegal drug user, and every other man, woman, and child living in Hawaii will always live in fear of as well as surviving a nuclear attack, unless the US military makes the right decision of relocating its assets to some other island location. If they can find the money to pay for the every increasing budget of the rail for the next 10+ years, no one can say they can not find the money to keep its populace out of harm's way.
And for FEMA, forget about them...
You’ve preached on the whole “military shouldn’t be on Oahu” deal many times. What would you propose the people who don’t think the military belongs on Oahu do about it? Ask the military to abandon Oahu installations? Never gonna happen. Ask the military to build bases on other islands in the Pacific? Sure thing. Seeing the clusterf*#k that is going on with the development of a new installation for USMC on Guam, building installations for replace those one Oahu will never happen in my lifetime.
It’s loke asking people to consider if they don’t like the high cost of living in Hawaii.
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so after removing the military who provides us with early warning, how would Hawaii detect a missile launch?
You are basing your statement on the belief that Hawaii would remain a target for nuclear weapons if there was no US military assets on its soil. Although any city is subject to attack in the case of nuclear war, nation states in the 21st century do not waste their hi-cost strategic weaponry on non-military objectives. Hawaii will always be a prime military objective due to the amount of military assets it possesses. You don't see American Samoa or Puerto Rico living under threat of nuclear missile attack like Hawaii.
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(https://i.imgur.com/xPG4fHF.jpg?1)
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You are basing your statement on the belief that Hawaii would remain a target for nuclear weapons if there was no US military assets on its soil. Although any city is subject to attack in the case of nuclear war, nation states in the 21st century do not waste their hi-cost strategic weaponry on non-military objectives. Hawaii will always be a prime military objective due to the amount of military assets it possesses. You don't see American Samoa or Puerto Rico living under threat of nuclear missile attack like Hawaii.
What are you basing your presumption that Hawaii, sans military assets will not be a target?
What doctrine or strategy dictates that?
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You’ve preached on the whole “military shouldn’t be on Oahu” deal many times. What would you propose the people who don’t think the military belongs on Oahu do about it? Ask the military to abandon Oahu installations? Never gonna happen. Ask the military to build bases on other islands in the Pacific? Sure thing. Seeing the clusterf*#k that is going on with the development of a new installation for USMC on Guam, building installations for replace those one Oahu will never happen in my lifetime.
If the US military has and continues to build strategic overseas bases that we know and those that that the American people do not know about as we speak, which we can infer that they have money to do so; why is it so hard for you to entertain or welcome the possibility of relocating military assets off Oahu? Don't you want yourself and the residents in Hawaii to not live in perpetual fear of nuclear war?
What I rhetorically ask is not anti-military, it is pro-life for all living in Hawaii. And today was our wake-up call.
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If the US military has and continues to build strategic overseas bases that we know and those that that the American people do not know about as we speak, which we can infer that they have money to do so; why is it so hard for you to entertain or welcome the possibility of relocating military assets off Oahu? Don't you want yourself and the residents in Hawaii to not live in perpetual fear of nuclear war?
What I rhetorically ask is not anti-military, it is pro-life for all living in Hawaii. And today was our wake-up call.
Your argument of being safe relies on the presumption that Hawaii presents itself as a target solely because of its military presence.
How do you know how North Korea or any other nuclear capable country chooses its targets? What's their targeting processes? How are targets weighed and prioritized?
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What are you basing your presumption that Hawaii, sans military assets will not be a target?
What doctrine or strategy dictates that?
I base my statement not on a stated military doctrine, but on basic economic common sense. Like I said in my previous response to your post, America Samoa and Puerto Rico are US possessions. Although they may have some military presence there, it does not compare to the military presence in Hawaii. Hence, a country will not waste its nuclear arsenal on targets with very little military significance like in the case of American Samoa or Puerto Rico.
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Your argument of being safe relies on the presumption that Hawaii presents itself as a target solely because of its military presence.
How do you know how North Korea or any other nuclear capable country chooses its targets? What's their targeting processes? How are targets weighed and prioritized?
Unless the DPRK wants to bomb our golf courses, GMO agriculture fields, or overpriced Ward condos, I don't think there is anything the DPRK would want to waste their limited nuclear missiles on, except for Hawaii's military assets.
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I base my statement not on a stated military doctrine, but on basic economic common sense. Like I said in my previous response to your post, America Samoa and Puerto Rico are US possessions. Although they may have some military presence there, it does not compare to the military presence in Hawaii. Hence, a country will not waste its nuclear arsenal on targets with very little military significance like in the case of American Samoa or Puerto Rico.
Explain this economic theory you have because the nuclear strike capability lies within a nations' military apparatus.
Unless you have or had access to a nations' decision making processes you have no clue what their targets are.
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Unless the DPRK wants to bomb our golf courses, GMO agriculture fields, or overpriced Ward condos, I don't think there is anything the DPRK would want to waste their limited nuclear missiles on, except for Hawaii's military assets.
are you stating this with explicit knowledge from the DPRK?
How do you know if Hawaii isn't a target as we speak? even with its military presence?
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If the US military has and continues to build strategic overseas bases that we know and those that that the American people do not know about as we speak, which we can infer that they have money to do so; why is it so hard for you to entertain or welcome the possibility of relocating military assets off Oahu? Don't you want yourself and the residents in Hawaii to not live in perpetual fear of nuclear war?
What I rhetorically ask is not anti-military, it is pro-life for all living in Hawaii. And today was our wake-up call.
I get what’s you’re saying. No, of course I’d rather not my family or other residents if Hawaii not live in fear or nuclear war. Personally, I don’t think about the prospects of nuclear war much.
Anyone can entertain thoughts of whatever floats their boat. I’m just saying complete relocation is military assets from Hawaii is not realistic. IMO, Hawaii also needs and benefits from the presence of the US military. They contribute to the economy in many ways through employment, the money spent by service members and families, construction dollars, etc. I would bring up what Okinawa is going through in their push to relocate the USMC to Guam, but not quite apples and apples.
I’m not saying you’re anti-military. Just you seem to be of the opinion that relocation of then military from Hawaii is even remotely possible. Ok, I guess it could happen, but not in my lifetime.
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I can only imagine how this investigation is going to be handled.
There will be a request for Federal money.
We'll spend that money on "local" investigators (mainland firms)
We''ll conclude that it was Trump's fault.
No one will be fired.
And they will be promoted!
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Bottom line is that no one knows what targets a nuclear capable state has.
We can give up military protection and HOPE that they don't target us.
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So far, this is the "Dumbest Tweet of the Day: Celebrity Edition" -==>>
(https://i.imgur.com/8PsbRlj.jpg?1)
Someone shud shove that turd back into the ass she was pushed out of at birth!
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overpriced Ward condos
Why would the Chinese let the NKs destroy some of their real estate assets?
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And they will be promoted!
Govs race is soon....
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(https://i.imgur.com/rqYQRiu.gif) (https://i.imgur.com/rqYQRiu.gif) (https://i.imgur.com/rqYQRiu.gif) (https://i.imgur.com/rqYQRiu.gif)
There's already a huge thread on the North Korean missile threat and all the "what if's".
Do we really need to rehash the same points again, and again, and again ....???
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=26882.msg236712#msg236712
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Made me laugh!
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Govs race is soon....
opponent candidates can make some hay about non-accountability under Ige, perfect example here. We already know that nobody will be held accountable. It's representative of the whole elected mentality. Ige may be a mediocre manager, but he's certainly not a leader, not even a responsible manager. Responsible means accountable, totally absent here. it's a ship of fools.
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5 pages!! lol
2aHawaii.com was like............... IT'S ON!! >:D >:D >:D
(https://media.wired.com/photos/59095e3d76f462691f012c3e/191:100/pass/MadMaxFuryRoad-247-ft.jpg)
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Only a Democrat/Liberal/Progressive/Socialist whack job can blame Trump for Hawaii sending out a false alarm, when this state is almost 100% run by Democrats.
I don't know where that anti-Trump Kool-aid is made, but it sure is potent! :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:
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Yup. Radiation will contaminate all water sources for a long time, including future rainfall when it hits the ground. I'd want to go quickly in the initial blast.
That is where the real issue lies.
Today, everyone in Hawaii is really lucky that it was a false alarm for whatever reason. Next time, it may be the real thing. The issue is not about improving the missile defence or civilian alert systems or trying to get Hawaii to increase its emergency food reserves.
The real issue people living in Hawaii and more so on Oahu should be starting to think about is the question of whether having so many military assets in Hawaii, particularly on Oahu is really a great idea. Unless you have access to the underground or in-mountain bunkers the military possesses, no amount of preps or survival gear will matter in the case of a nuclear strike resulting in HECO going down, radiation contamination of our soils and water supply, shipping companies not wanting to risk coming to Hawaii in the aftermath, and your own neighbors who will be ready to kill you for all of your preps, since they did not make the efforts to prepare for themselves.
The elderly, disabled, prescription/dialysis dependent, illegal drug user, and every other man, woman, and child living in Hawaii will always live in fear of as well as surviving a nuclear attack, unless the US military makes the right decision of relocating its assets to some other island location. If they can find the money to pay for the every increasing budget of the rail for the next 10+ years, no one can say they can not find the money to keep its populace out of harm's way.
And for FEMA, forget about them...
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ya think, with so many seniors in Hawaii who damn near had a heart attack this morning, there be a rush to schedule a meeting with estate planning, estate lawyers, to "get their affairs in order", maybe to move financial assets off island so their estate survives The Bomb?
think: property values in Hawaii after The Bomb...
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ya think, with so many seniors in Hawaii who damn near had a heart attack this morning, there be a rush to schedule a meeting with estate planning, estate lawyers, to "get their affairs in order", maybe to move financial assets off island so their estate survives The Bomb?
think: property values in Hawaii after The Bomb...
I think there were many who almost had a stroke/heart attack who were not seniors this morning.
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Here's what a few on here sound like with their conspiracies.
I expect at least one or two to try and defend this .... :crazy:
(https://i.imgur.com/m8iJ5x2.jpg?1)
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Took me 30 secs to bring rifles out (cond 2), bring out extra AR mags. Grab BOBs and rifle sling. I told the wife to fill up pots and pans with h20.
I got the alert on my cell, but tv channels 3-8 had no coverage. No info on radio, had to rely on SSH fb page for info. No info on HNN or other like fb pages.
As i was about to put my holster and boots on, got the all clear.
Schatz blaming ige and his admin to pave the way for hanabusa.
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
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I woke up this morning to the phone warning and quickly dozed off. Living in Pauoa I figured I don't stand a chance. Woke up a little later to a dark house with all the curtains closed. I inquired "what's going on here". My wife said the warning said to stay inside and close your curtains. Really....
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Latest message from our esteemed Governor.... very informative....
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk12F2WQsRA
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Assuming you survive the initial blast, one of the biggest killers from radiation is thyroid cancer (90% of cancer after Chernobyl was thyroid). This is actually very preventable via a potassium iodide pill. IOSAT Potassium Iodide is FDA approved and you can buy from Amazon or wherever. Pills are tiny and thus easy to store in your emergency kit. Just wanted to throw that out there in the event you guys want to beef up your kit.
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Took me 30 secs to bring rifles out (cond 2), bring out extra AR mags. Grab BOBs and rifle sling. I told the wife to fill up pots and pans with h20.
I got the alert on my cell, but tv channels 3-8 had no coverage. No info on radio, had to rely on SSH fb page for info. No info on HNN or other like fb pages.
As i was about to put my holster and boots on, got the all clear.
Schatz blaming ige and his admin to pave the way for hanabusa.
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
Carbine condition 2?
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Here's what a few on here sound like with their conspiracies.
I expect at least one or two to try and defend this .... :crazy:
(https://i.imgur.com/m8iJ5x2.jpg?1)
Can’t find it now, but another funny one was Belichick was responsible for the alert in order to distract Mariota. ;D
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Only a Democrat/Liberal/Progressive/Socialist whack job can blame Trump for Hawaii sending out a false alarm, when this state is almost 100% run by Democrats.
I don't know where that anti-Trump Kool-aid is made, but it sure is potent! :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:
A couple of my liberal friends are blaming Trump
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Unless the DPRK wants to bomb our golf courses, GMO agriculture fields, or overpriced Ward condos, I don't think there is anything the DPRK would want to waste their limited nuclear missiles on, except for Hawaii's military assets.
Dude. There is literally a better chance of us going to war with North Korea and winning, then there is of the military leaving Oahu. Even if we did, Hawaii would always be a target. Maybe not for missiles, but certainly for occupation and forward staging.
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Speaking of Liberal Whack Jobs ... Jim Carrey came out of hibernation to post his rant ...
(https://i.imgur.com/3hK61xm.jpg?1)
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"one man gomorrah"
makes me think of Bill Clinton and Monica.
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"one man gomorrah"
makes me think of Bill Clinton and Monica.
That's more like Gonorrhea. :shake:
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An out of town friend who's been through some disasters told me to watch for an October baby boom.
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Tulsi Gabbard is blaming Trump
Seen on kitv news she was talking on the phone
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An out of town friend who's been through some disasters told me to watch for an October baby boom.
ha ha
some people launched on their own...billions of missiles
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Tulsi Gabbard is blaming Trump
Seen on kitv news she was talking on the phone
so dumb he didn't push the button
Someone in a Democrat controlled state blew their wad
I think Hanabata paid someone to push the button so she could blame Ige
But in the end we, the State of Hawaii made ass
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http://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/
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Even if it hit Honolulu directly the damage would be contained in town. Depending on the winds for the fallout. If typical tradewinds then most of it would be blown over the ocean.
(https://image.ibb.co/bX6dnR/a_WDWAd_WADwd.png)
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Even if it hit Honolulu directly the damage would be contained in town. Depending on the winds for the fallout. If typical tradewinds then most of it would be blown over the ocean.
This has been beaten to death in another thread.
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=26882.msg237827#msg237827
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Speaking of Liberal Whack Jobs ... Jim Carrey came out of hibernation to post his rant ...
Who is he?
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Who is he?
He is this outstanding fine piece of work described here:
https://www.yourtango.com/2017306121/jim-carrey-abuse-herpes-std-ex-girlfriend-cathriona-white-suicide (https://www.yourtango.com/2017306121/jim-carrey-abuse-herpes-std-ex-girlfriend-cathriona-white-suicide)
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The damn gerbal wheel is starting to spin and tin foil calling to me to make another hat.
I find it hard to believe it is just 1 "button" that needs to be pressed to release any island wide text warning. I would think its a sequence that needs to be done.
I dont think the north has the tech to hit us, so could it have been a sub? But by which country?
People involved will start to "dissapear" soon for the cover up.
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
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Didn't want to go there because there's no way to know. Interesting to think what goals could be accomplished by a fake warning. Besides KJU laughing his ass off.
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The damn gerbal wheel is starting to spin and tin foil calling to me to make another hat.
I find it hard to believe it is just 1 "button" that needs to be pressed to release any island wide text warning. I would think its a sequence that needs to be done.
I dont think the north has the tech to hit us, so could it have been a sub? But by which country?
People involved will start to "dissapear" soon for the cover up.
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
Don't expect any governor to know what "the button" means in technical terms. We all know things are run by computer now. The "button" is on a screen. The operator was given a final check asking "Are you sure you wish to proceed" or similar. He clicked the "button" with his mouse to confirm send. He didn't realize he was sending live versus a test until the alert notified him on his own phone seconds after he hit the button.
Human error. Not a big red button that he laid his backpack on.
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(https://www.fatherhood.org/hs-fs/hubfs/Images/Blog/easy-button.png?t=1514918071323&width=585&name=easy-button.png)
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(https://i.imgur.com/zYrZemN.jpg?1)
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Instead of a pop up message that asks if you're sure, it follows with a second pop up that asks if you're really, really sure.
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https://youtu.be/Qk12F2WQsRA
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Hawaii will ALWAYS remain a primary target, with or without a military presence. To think otherwise would mean that someone is either completely ignorant on the topic, or stupid.
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I think he has a lot more class than our local Democrats who railed on him despite our State's fault.
President Trump today said the federal government will get involved with the false alert investigation, but he also praised state officials on how they reacted to the blunder.
“Well that was a state thing. We’re going to now get involved with them. I love that they took responsibility. They took total responsibility, but we’re going to get involved. Their attitude and what they want to do, I think it’s terrific. They took responsibility. They made a mistake. Well, we hope it won’t happen again. Part of it is that people are on edge, but maybe, eventually we’ll solve the problem so they won’t have to be so on edge.”
He might be raw on Twitter and the like but he didn't take this opportunity to lambast how stupid our Democrat leaders are; unlike Tulsi. It was a perfect opportunity for a punch to the face - but he held back. I hope people see this as a good leadership trait.
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Hawaii will ALWAYS remain a primary target, with or without a military presence. To think otherwise would mean that someone is either completely ignorant on the topic, or stupid.
If Hawaii had no military presence, why would any nation want to drop nuclear weapons on Hawaii, as a primary target?
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If Hawaii had no military presence, why would any nation want to drop nuclear weapons on Hawaii, as a primary target?
Ever hear of terrorism? Unarmed civilians get targeted by terrorists 90% of the time for the shock and awe factor. It's not farfetched to consider a rogue element taking over the military of a nation, or a faction stealing mobile nukes.
A country like NK might not have a reasonable strategic objective -- Kim could just "snap" one night and decide to end the stalemate by targeting someplace that's less defended than the West Coast. It demonstrates capability and resolve.
Today, the US is the only nation to have launched nukes against an enemy. It's only a matter of time before someone tries to knock us off the top of the hill. We always thought it would be Russia, but as more nations develop nukes, the list grows.
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If Hawaii had no military presence, why would any nation want to drop nuclear weapons on Hawaii, as a primary target?
if you indeed have not knowledge of military strategic movements and basing, you might be excused.
But, I think it is more base ignorance and/or unknown hatreds..
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False Alarm Fallout: Worker Reassigned And Trump Weighs In
The employee who accidentally triggered an alert of a nuclear ballistic threat across
Hawaii on Saturday has been temporarily reassigned, state officials said Sunday.
The employee, who officials say was using a computer program during a shift change drill and
clicked through a warning prompt, has been reassigned within the Hawaii Emergency Management
Agency, said agency spokesman Richard Rapoza.
The organization will make a long-term decision on his status after a review, Rapoza said.
Meanwhile, Federal Communications Commission Chairman Ajit Pai said in a statement Sunday
that based on what that the federal agency has found out so far, “it appears that the government
of Hawaii did not have reasonable safeguards or process controls in place to prevent the transmission
of a false alert.”
Gov. David Ige repeated his apology on behalf of the state government for the mishap in a statement
Sunday.
“As a state government, we must learn from this unfortunate error and continue to prepare for any
safety threat to Hawaii’s residents and visitors – whether it is a man-made threat or a natural disaster
such as a hurricane or tsunami,” Ige’s statement read.
http://www.civilbeat.org/2018/01/false-alarm-fallout-worker-reassigned-and-trump-weighs-in/
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Personally, if I were Ige and wanted another term, I'd use this screw-up to identify other failures the "Not A Drill" drill uncovered and fix them all -- and with great visibility.
Turning a negative into a positive is the only way this won't be used against him during the campaign.
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Ever hear of terrorism? Unarmed civilians get targeted by terrorists 90% of the time for the shock and awe factor. It's not farfetched to consider a rogue element taking over the military of a nation, or a faction stealing mobile nukes.
A country like NK might not have a reasonable strategic objective -- Kim could just "snap" one night and decide to end the stalemate by targeting someplace that's less defended than the West Coast. It demonstrates capability and resolve.
Today, the US is the only nation to have launched nukes against an enemy. It's only a matter of time before someone tries to knock us off the top of the hill. We always thought it would be Russia, but as more nations develop nukes, the list grows.
The OP, Surf, stated that Hawaii would be a prime target even if it did not have a military presence.
Yes, the terrorism boogieman is everywhere, we must all hide under our beds for fear of the cyber-hacked nuclear or suitcase nuclear bomb. In all seriousness, outside of terrorism extremists, I find it hard to see any nuclear armed nation target a location that posseses no strategic military presence.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I don't see or have heard of other island locations like American Samoa or Puerto Rico put on some nation's nuclear hit list.
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if you indeed have not knowledge of military strategic movements and basing, you might be excused.
But, I think it is more base ignorance and/or unknown hatreds..
Instead of personal attacks, please share with me the strategic knowledge of why Russia or China for that matter would want to drop nuclear bombs on locations that have no strategic military presence, as in my examples of the island states of American Samoa or Puerto Rico?
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The OP, Surf, stated that Hawaii would be a prime target even if it did not have a military presence.
Yes, the terrorism boogieman is everywhere, we must all hide under our beds for fear of the cyber-hacked nuclear or suitcase nuclear bomb. In all seriousness, outside of terrorism extremists, I find it hard to see any nuclear armed nation target a location that posseses no strategic military presence.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I don't see or have heard of other island locations like American Samoa or Puerto Rico put on some nation's nuclear hit list.
Islands include:
Japan
Okinawa
Guam
Etc
NK has threatened all of them, some verbally, and some by firing test missiles without warning toward their vicinity.
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Islands include:
Japan
Okinawa
Guam
Etc
NK has threatened all of them, some verbally, and some by firing test missiles without warning toward their vicinity.
Yes, but that is because there is a strong US military presence on all of those islands.
Do you think the DPRK will target American Samoa or Puerto Rico? If yes, please explain why?
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Instead of personal attacks, please share with me the strategic knowledge of why Russia or China for that matter would want to drop nuclear bombs on locations that have no strategic military presence, as in my examples of the island states of American Samoa or Puerto Rico?
Islands that are not presently housing military units and equipment may do so in the future during a deployment. Hitting those locations deprive enemies of airfields, warehouses, harbors, repair and refueling facilities, etc. As long as countries (including the US) have alliances with those non-military islands, their strategic locations and resources make them vulnerable.
No one knows where the next conflict will be fought. Until it is, we need to maintain friendly relations with those who can help us or may be used by an enemy to hurt us.
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As I mentioned in an earlier post, I don't see or have heard of other island locations like American Samoa or Puerto Rico put on some nation's nuclear hit list.
Wow! That's some James Bond, Jason Bourne stuff right there! Can you share these target lists with us? How about sharing your sources with us?
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Wow! That's some James Bond, Jason Bourne stuff right there! Can you share these target lists?
In a previous job, I worked with the master targeting lists the US develops. Without getting into details (and classified), we have very detailed information on facilities, buildings, and construction for nearly every location we may have to attack in the world. There may or may not be allies in the database, but we won't let them know. They may not like the idea of one day being targeted for an air strike. You know, like Kuwait being overrun, and us using cruise missiles on their territories.
When a mission is ordered, they are very specific -- take out the runway, tower, fuel storage, aircraft hangers, barracks, AA gun placements, missiles, launchers, docks, roads, .... you name it, the mission has a list of what targets are primary, secondary, and targets of opportunity.
If we do this, you know the rest of the countries have this information. Hell, Manning or another traitor may have given NK our database!
Target lists are not as simple as Kuleana seems to believe. There are plans in place for a multitude of scenarios. When that plan is activated, the target lists are created based on that.
As I said, we won't know until we know where the next enemy will be.
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Islands that are not presently housing military units and equipment may do so in the future during a deployment. Hitting those locations deprive enemies of airfields, warehouses, harbors, repair and refueling facilities, etc. As long as countries (including the US) have alliances with those non-military islands, their strategic locations and resources make them vulnerable.
No one knows where the next conflict will be fought. Until it is, we need to maintain friendly relations with those who can help us or may be used by an enemy to hurt us.
Although I see the logic of your hypothetical statements above, your conclusions are still based on speculation. Assuming you are correct, your statements at best support the possibility of those locations that do not have a strong military presence as secondary or if there still is bombs available type targets for nuclear destruction. Hence, they still would not be as I contend, primary targets.
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Wow! That's some James Bond, Jason Bourne stuff right there! Can you share these target lists with us? How about sharing your sources with us?
In your unending quest to get into a shouting match, I said I have never read anywhere American Samoa or Puerto Rico were targets of nuclear destruction by any nation.
Have you heard anything?
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In a previous job, I worked with the master targeting lists the US develops. Without getting into details (and classified), we have very detailed information on facilities, buildings, and construction for nearly every location we may have to attack in the world. There may or may not be allies in the database, but we won't let them know. They may not like the idea of one day being targeted for an air strike. You know, like Kuwait being overrun, and us using cruise missiles on their territories.
When a mission is ordered, they are very specific -- take out the runway, tower, fuel storage, aircraft hangers, barracks, AA gun placements, missiles, launchers, docks, roads, .... you name it, the mission has a list of what targets are primary, secondary, and targets of opportunity.
If we do this, you know the rest of the countries have this information. Hell, Manning or another traitor may have given NK our database!
Target lists are not as simple as Kuleana seems to believe. There are plans in place for a multitude of scenarios. When that plan is activated, the target lists are created based on that.
As I said, we won't know until we know where the next enemy will be.
I totally understand what your saying.
From what you did share, you mentioned a hierarchy of targets that of a military nature. Now then, without going into classified details, can you share your insights of the logic of dropping nuclear weapons on locations that do not have a strong military presence. That is what I am asking.
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gheezus, here we go round the mulberry bush...
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In your unending quest to get into a shouting match, I said I have never read anywhere American Samoa or Puerto Rico were targets of nuclear destruction by any nation.
Have you heard anything?
I have never read anywhere American Samoa or Puerto Rico were not targets of nuclear destruction by any nation.
Have you heard anything?
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I have never read anywhere American Samoa or Puerto Rico were not targets of nuclear destruction by any nation.
Have you heard anything?
That is why I am asking. Do you think they are targets for nuclear destruction?
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That is why I am asking. Do you think they are targets for nuclear destruction?
sorry, but you made the statement first, so I am asking you
"You don't see American Samoa or Puerto Rico living under threat of nuclear missile attack like Hawaii."
I don't see why I should prove or disprove a "fact" that you proposed...
[edited by macsak to include quotation marks around the word- fact]
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DERAILED.
(http://media.giphy.com/media/HmsCKhauhYju0/giphy.gif)
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sorry, but you made the statement first, so I am asking you
"You don't see American Samoa or Puerto Rico living under threat of nuclear missile attack like Hawaii."
I don't see why I should prove or disprove a "fact" that you proposed...
[edited by macsak to include quotation marks around the word- fact]
That is right; I do not see those islands on-par with threat of nuclear destruction as Hawaii, due to the fact Hawaii does have a strong US military presence here, where American Samoa or Puerto Rico does not. That is why I am asking whether anyone has evidence to show that locations that do not have a strong US military presence live in the same amount of fear of nuclear destruction as Hawaii.
I find it fascinating that some posters are convoluting my basic premise/question.
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That is right; I do not see those islands on-par with threat of nuclear destruction as Hawaii, due to the fact Hawaii does have a strong US military presence here, where American Samoa or Puerto Rico does not. That is why I am asking whether anyone has evidence to show that locations that do not have a strong US military presence live in the same amount of fear of nuclear destruction as Hawaii.
I find it fascinating that some posters are convoluting my basic premise/question.
I can neither confirm nor deny the existence of any potential targeting information, nor what priorities may or may not be assigned.
Such information is compartmentalized, and as such is not available for internal nor external discussion.
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I find it fascinating that some posters are convoluting my basic premise/question.
i find it fascinating that you made a statement, and then turned it into a question...
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i find it fascinating that you made a statement, and then turned it into a question...
I find it fascinating he thinks anything he posts is not convoluted. :crazy:
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It seems to me that it would be a lot easier to set off a nuclear bomb on a ship. Probably wouldn't be hard to find NK volunteers if they promise food for life to the relatives. It would be difficult to navigate an unknown ship into the Pearl Harbor channel but probably not difficult to navigate near the Ala Wai harbor. Do they have a radiation detector off the Honolulu coast? Could the NK ship hide the bomb from radiation detectors?
What would be the point of a nuclear strike on Honolulu? It's not like they could occupy the island. Meanwhile, we've turned the northern peninsula into a radioactive wasteland and China couldn't say a thing about it.
When the alert arrived, I didn't panic because it didn't make any sense. There's no way they could accurately hit the island with any precision. Maybe someday, not now. The sirens didn't sound and they didn't interrupt the basketball game on TV except for the alert message above. At some time, NK will have to prove they can launch a missile with a payload that can survive reentry and explode within 20 miles of their target. At what point will the President say "China fuck you... we're blowing up your friends."?
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I find it fascinating he thinks anything he posts is not convoluted. :crazy:
No answers to my basic question.
Only personal attacks, twisting what I said, or everything is top secret classified.
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What would be the point of a nuclear strike on Honolulu? It's not like they could occupy the island. Meanwhile, we've turned the northern peninsula into a radioactive wasteland and China couldn't say a thing about it.
I agree, it is not the DPRK that would have the capability to launch nuclear missiles accurately to Hawaii, but a nuclear armed peer. However, if the US tries to nuke the DPRK, it will be WWIII for sure.
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However, if the US tries to nuke the DPRK, it will be WWIII for sure.
what makes you so sure?
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The OP, Surf, stated that Hawaii would be a prime target even if it did not have a military presence.
Yes, the terrorism boogieman is everywhere, we must all hide under our beds for fear of the cyber-hacked nuclear or suitcase nuclear bomb. In all seriousness, outside of terrorism extremists, I find it hard to see any nuclear armed nation target a location that posseses no strategic military presence.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I don't see or have heard of other island locations like American Samoa or Puerto Rico put on some nation's nuclear hit list.
Terrorism boogieman? You mock those concerns while you irrationally keep preaching about nuclear targeting.
A few here seem to have, or had, been involved in threat analysis for Hawaii as well as beyond. Understandably, those who have can’t share much of that information. I will say that NK is a very real threat and has been on the radar for a while, well before Trump. Terrorism is also a very real threat. No, nothing to the level of me losing sleep over it.
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Kuleana made an argument that IF Hawaii had no military presence then Hawaii would not be a target.
So again. I ask for your sources that support your statement. Which countries target or don't target Hawaii at this time? What are their criteria for targeting?
What is the credibility of your sources?
It appears that your obvious distaste of the US military has skewed your argument.
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That is right; I do not see those islands on-par with threat of nuclear destruction as Hawaii, due to the fact Hawaii does have a strong US military presence here, where American Samoa or Puerto Rico does not. That is why I am asking whether anyone has evidence to show that locations that do not have a strong US military presence live in the same amount of fear of nuclear destruction as Hawaii.
I find it fascinating that some posters are convoluting my basic premise/question.
You assume you have knowledge of every location where the US has a “strong military” presence. You’d be surprised. I was surprised at some of the places I get to work on and I work in facilities. Not the fancy classified stuff.
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i find it fascinating that you made a statement, and then turned it into a question...
Irrational folks often do that.
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I agree, it is not the DPRK that would have the capability to launch nuclear missiles accurately to Hawaii, but a nuclear armed peer. However, if the US tries to nuke the DPRK, it will be WWIII for sure.
What other nations will enter into WWIII if the DPRK were to be attacked by the US? A lot of people would like to know if you are correct.
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there, I started a separate post.
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=30027.msg266342#msg266342 (https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=30027.msg266342#msg266342)
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No answers to my basic question.
Only personal attacks, twisting what I said, or everything is top secret classified.
I did not attack you personally. I attacked your argument, as it is conjecture
top secret classified? :rofl:
No worries...I was a space shuttle door gunner once when NASA carried uber, unobtanium, tops secret clearance payload into orbit
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there, I started a separate post.
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=30027.new#new (https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=30027.new#new)
now you have to make a WWIII thread too...
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See what one guy in a hurry to get home after shift change did to this forum? :wtf:
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Really a moot point being debated as to the hypothetical "what ifs" whether the military was here or not because Hawaii will always have a strong military presence (presumably), not to mention the Commander USPACOM physically resides here, with COG over the Pacific AOR, plus PACFLT, USARPAC, PACAF (to include the JFACC) physically reside here as well. Hawaii will always be a top-tier target of our "capable" enemies, both strategically and tactically, whether conventional or unconventional weapons are being considered.
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Really a moot point being debated as to the hypothetical "what ifs" whether the military was here or not because Hawaii will always have a strong military presence (presumably), not to mention the Commander USPACOM physically resides here, with COG over the Pacific AOR, plus PACFLT, USARPAC, PACAF (to include the JFACC) physically reside here as well. Hawaii will always be a top-tier target of our "capable" enemies, both strategically and tactically, whether conventional or unconventional weapons are being considered.
Don't forget the Navy Shipyard, NCTAMS (SATCOM), SUBPAC, MARFORPAC, ... The entire theater during peacetime is commanded and supported by Hawaii-based HQs.
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Kuleana made an argument that IF Hawaii had no military presence then Hawaii would not be a target.
So again. I ask for your sources that support your statement. Which countries target or don't target Hawaii at this time? What are their criteria for targeting?
What is the credibility of your sources?
It appears that your obvious distaste of the US military has skewed your argument.
It is not a distaste of the US military, it is the distaste of the presence of the US military in Hawaii that puts every person at a even greater risk of nuclear destruction. Did your read the numerous accounts of panic and anger in today's Sunday paper? Was yesterday's events not an eye opener to this reality?
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It is not a distaste of the US military, it is the distaste of the presence of the US military in Hawaii that puts every person at a even greater risk of nuclear destruction. Did your read the numerous accounts of panic and anger in today's Sunday paper? Was yesterday's events not an eye opener to this reality?
No. No it was not. Some of us are wide awake without needing a reality check.
I haven't read the Hawaii Pravda in decades.
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Really a moot point being debated as to the hypothetical "what ifs" whether the military was here or not because Hawaii will always have a strong military presence (presumably), not to mention the Commander USPACOM physically resides here, with COG over the Pacific AOR, plus PACFLT, USARPAC, PACAF (to include the JFACC) physically reside here as well. Hawaii will always be a top-tier target of our "capable" enemies, both strategically and tactically, whether conventional or unconventional weapons are being considered.
My point exactly.
Like I said, Hawaii is and always will be a primary nuclear target due to the strong military footprint, nothing trivial about that, unlike the examples I listed, American Samoa and Puerto Rico, which maybe are secondary targets due to the lack of US military presence.
That is all I am saying.
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No. No it was not. Some of us are wide awake without needing a reality check.
I haven't read the Hawaii Pravda in decades.
Was not referring to you.
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Was not referring to you.
Oh.
I don't think Ren would agree with you either, but that's just a guess.
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Don't forget the Navy Shipyard, NCTAMS (SATCOM), SUBPAC, MARFORPAC, ... The entire theater during peacetime is commanded and supported by Hawaii-based HQs.
Hence, the reason why Hawaii is more a primary target for nuclear destruction than say American Samoa or Puerto Rico. No need for top secret clearance to understand this reality.
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It is not a distaste of the US military, it is the distaste of the presence of the US military in Hawaii that puts every person at a even greater risk of nuclear destruction. Did your read the numerous accounts of panic and anger in today's Sunday paper? Was yesterday's events not an eye opener to this reality?
so you are saying that if the EXACT same events happened in Am. Samoa, there would not be numerous accounts of panic and anger in their Sunday paper?
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Oh.
I don't think Ren would agree with you either, but that's just a guess.
I was not saying he is part of the sheeple.
I was referencing about how his unconditional love and support for the presence of the US military in Hawaii, outweighs the potential collateral damage of a nuclear attack that would result in the deaths of the majority of the people in Hawaii.
Or in other words, how he feels that the death of thousands from a nuclear attack on Hawaii is a small price to pay as long as Hawaii bases a strong US military presence on its shores.
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I was not saying he is part of the sheeple.
I was referencing about how his unconditional love and support for the presence of the US military in Hawaii, outweighs the potential collateral damage of a nuclear attack that would result in the deaths of the majority of the people in Hawaii.
Or in other words, how he feels that the death of thousands from a nuclear attack on Hawaii is a small price to pay as long as Hawaii bases a strong US military presence on its shores.
uhhhh......
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so you are saying that if the EXACT same events happened in Am. Samoa, there would not be numerous accounts of panic and anger in their Sunday paper?
Out of context, I have been saying American Samoa and Puerto Rico do not have the same potential of nuclear attack as Hawaii due to Hawaii's relatively large US military presence.
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It is not a distaste of the US military, it is the distaste of the presence of the US military in Hawaii that puts every person at a even greater risk of nuclear destruction. Did your read the numerous accounts of panic and anger in today's Sunday paper? Was yesterday's events not an eye opener to this reality?
Yesterday's events were not related to a the presence of the US military in Hawaii - it was the result of a mistake.
You still haven't revealed your source of information that supports your argument that a US military presence would make Hawaii less of a target or no target at all. Come on put on your biggest and brightest red hat and tell us what you think from the mind of a person living in Hawaii about how a North Korean leader would or would not target Hawaii. Do you know NK doctrine? Or what NK doctrine is derived from? How big is their nuclear arsenal? What kind of delivery vehicles do they have? What do they think of our counter strike capabilities?
Mind you that other nations are invested heavily in Hawaii and the United States.
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If Hawaii had no military presence, why would any nation want to drop nuclear weapons on Hawaii, as a primary target?
Kuleana,
Just to be clear, I don't for a minute think you are stupid, but there is no doubt that you are uninformed on this topic.
I am not trying to be rude or dismissive of your questions, but this topic has arrived at a point where no amount of written discussion on my behalf will make a difference. The downfall of forums and lack of face to face and interpersonal discussion.
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Out of context, I have been saying American Samoa and Puerto Rico do not have the same potential of nuclear attack as Hawaii due to Hawaii's relatively large US military presence.
again, what are your supporting information or evidence of that?
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I was not saying he is part of the sheeple.
I was referencing about how his unconditional love and support for the presence of the US military in Hawaii, outweighs the potential collateral damage of a nuclear attack that would result in the deaths of the majority of the people in Hawaii.
Or in other words, how he feels that the death of thousands from a nuclear attack on Hawaii is a small price to pay as long as Hawaii bases a strong US military presence on its shores.
Just curious, but what are your feelings on US military presence in say Guam, CNMI, or even Alaska?
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Kuleana,
Just to be clear, I don't for a minute think you are stupid, but there is no doubt that you are uninformed on this topic.
I am not trying to be rude or dismissive of your questions, but this topic has arrived at a point where no amount of written discussion on my behalf will make a difference. The downfall of forums and lack of face to face and interpersonal discussion.
Did not say Hawaii or any other location could not be primary or secondary targets for nuclear missiles. But no one since I responded to your initial post has provided a simple answer as to how a demilitarized Hawaii or any other location lacking a strong US military presence will still be a primary target of nuclear weapons.
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Yesterday's events were not related to a the presence of the US military in Hawaii - it was the result of a mistake.
You still haven't revealed your source of information that supports your argument that a US military presence would make Hawaii less of a target or no target at all. Come on put on your biggest and brightest red hat and tell us what you think from the mind of a person living in Hawaii about how a North Korean leader would or would not target Hawaii. Do you know NK doctrine? Or what NK doctrine is derived from? How big is their nuclear arsenal? What kind of delivery vehicles do they have? What do they think of our counter strike capabilities?
Mind you that other nations are invested heavily in Hawaii and the United States.
Never said the DPRK would not target Hawaii.
Only said Hawaii might be a less of a target for any nation, if it did not have such a large US military footprint.
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I was not saying he is part of the sheeple.
I was referencing about how his unconditional love and support for the presence of the US military in Hawaii, outweighs the potential collateral damage of a nuclear attack that would result in the deaths of the majority of the people in Hawaii.
Or in other words, how he feels that the death of thousands from a nuclear attack on Hawaii is a small price to pay as long as Hawaii bases a strong US military presence on its shores.
"unconditional love and support" you make a lot of presumptions with that one.
This argument has nothing with what I feel.
No military or military how do you know what NK targets or does not target? What are those targeting requirements? What COAs did they develop that did not include Hawaii as a target? Better yet tell us what framework or risk analysis methodology did they use in their targeting?
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Out of context, I have been saying American Samoa and Puerto Rico do not have the same potential of nuclear attack as Hawaii due to Hawaii's relatively large US military presence.
in context
you brought up the fact that they are not nuclear targets
so they should not be worried about attacks
Hawaii is a target for attacks, hence the panic and anger
so therefore, there will not be panic and anger in Am. Samoa
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Never said the DPRK would not target Hawaii.
Only said Hawaii might be a less of a target for any nation, if it did not have such a large US military footprint.
and how did you formulate that conclusion?
OK. Tell us which countries WOULD NOT target us if there were NO US military presence in Hawaii?
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Just curious, but what are your feelings on US military presence in say Guam, CNMI, or even Alaska?
Feel very sorry for those people, for they share the daily fear of nuclear destruction as we in Hawaii. I am only concerned for Hawaii though, because that is where I live, as most on this forum do.
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and how did you formulate that conclusion?
OK. Tell us which countries WOULD NOT target us if there were NO US military presence in Hawaii?
Did you see FJ's post? He listed a number of military departments, offices, etc. It does not take a genius to figure out with such a large military presence, Hawaii would indeed make a tempting target for an enemy of the US.
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OK. Tell us which countries WOULD NOT target us if there were NO US military presence in Hawaii?
When I use the word target, I am referencing nuclear bombs.
To answer your question, Hawaii may still targeted; I never said it could not. However, Hawaii would potentially move from a primary to a much better secondary target. That would be much better for all of us who live here. Do you agree?
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Feel very sorry for those people, for they share the daily fear of nuclear destruction as we in Hawaii. I am only concerned for Hawaii though, because that is where I live, as most on this forum do.
Would you say that Guam has it better or worse than Hawaii? And why?
As in would you say that Hawaii or Guam is a more attractive target? For any sort of strike. Not necessarily just nuclear, but can stick with that threat as that is the primary focus of your questions.
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Just speculative on my part but aside from the whole military or not aspect, I kinda think the the NK leader would hit whatever he is capable of hitting that is tied to US interests or allies. Maximum number of casualties possible being his goal. He is not stupid enough to believe his country wouldn't be destroyed if he attacked the US, our territories or our allies. If he could hit DC or NY, he would be singing that tune as well, and if he could hit DC, I suspect our political leaders would be much more engaged in finding a solution, whether diplomatically or militarily. Although at the rate things have been going for several decades, if nothing is done to nip this in the butt, he will have the means to do just that.
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in context
you brought up the fact that they are not nuclear targets
so they should not be worried about attacks
Hawaii is a target for attacks, hence the panic and anger
so therefore, there will not be panic and anger in Am. Samoa
I do not understand your question. However, if you are referring to a pressing of a wrong button type situation, then of course they would be panic and anger.
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per CNN:
The officer responsible for the mistake has been disciplined and reassigned, Miyagi told CNN, but not fired.
Vern Miyagi also referred to the person as a "he". so we know it's a guy. but what does "disciplined" mean for a civil servant. suspended with pay (free vacation), letter of reprimand (slap on the wrist). and "reassigned", moved up into management? maybe he's now the Training Director?
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Did you see FJ's post? He listed a number of military departments, offices, etc. It does not take a genius to figure out with such a large military presence, Hawaii would indeed make a tempting target for an enemy of the US.
Don't hide behind someone else's post. I asked you. Your unfounded generalizations are based on a military presence in Hawaii. Like I said you don't have the experience or understandings of another nation. You formulate your argument with broad generalizations. The fact is no one knows what another nation will do. The current NK regime has a somewhat historical pattern of nuke tests and missile launches. There is no telling what they could do or what they will target. Mind you he did kill his half brother. Why? We can only guess.
Bottom line no one knows for sure. We can disarm in the face of a country that is going the opposite direction. Would you be willing to do that? Disarm while your neighbors are arming themselves?
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Would you say that Guam has it better or worse than Hawaii? And why?
As in would you say that Hawaii or Guam is a more attractive target? For any sort of strike. Not necessarily just nuclear, but can stick with that threat as that is the primary focus of your questions.
I do not think I can comment on who would have it worse. Guam is geographically closer to the DPRK, China, or Russia and would be attrative in that respect.
Would Guam be lesser of a target if they had a smaller US military footprint? I speculatively think so. However, they are most likely on someone's hit list now beacuse of that footprint.
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Did you see FJ's post? He listed a number of military departments, offices, etc. It does not take a genius to figure out with such a large military presence, Hawaii would indeed make a tempting target for an enemy of the US.
I don't think you understand how the component commands fit into the bigger picture of operational command.
The peacetime role of the military is to train, equip, and maintain readiness. When called on to support an operational mission, they are placed under the command of a theater command structure. Did you know the war in the Persian Gulf region was run from Bahrain? That's where joint component commanders from the US and all the allies coordinated operations.
I'm not going to even try to educate you on military support and operational doctrine. It's way too involved. Plus, for all I know, some NK intelligence officer is printing out this thread as we hit the "ALERT" key.
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per CNN:
The officer responsible for the mistake has been disciplined and reassigned, Miyagi told CNN, but not fired.
Vern Miyagi also referred to the person as a "he". so we know it's a guy. but what does "disciplined" mean for a civil servant. suspended with pay (free vacation), letter of reprimand (slap on the wrist). and "reassigned", moved up into management? maybe he's now the Training Director?
If anything like the federal government, if it's his first disciplinary offense, he surely will not be fired. More likely a letter of reprimand and possibly reassigned. Sounds like the new policy will be that this is controlled by the military, which is where it should have resided in the first place.
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Bottom line no one knows for sure. We can disarm in the face of a country that is going the opposite direction. Would you be willing to do that? Disarm while your neighbors are arming themselves?
Who said anything about having the US disarm?
Having a smaller US military footprint in Hawaii does not mean the US military is any weaker.
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I do not think I can comment on who would have it worse. Guam is geographically closer to the DPRK, China, or Russia and would be attrative in that respect.
Would Guam be lesser of a target if they had a smaller US military footprint? I speculatively think so. However, they are most likely on someone's hit list now beacuse of that footprint.
Don’t think you can comment? It’s just your opinion. I’m not gonna ask you to prove or or back it up. Just your opinion.
I’d have to check, but i believe Guam has a greater military footprint per capita than does Hawaii.
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When I use the word target, I am referencing nuclear bombs.
To answer your question, Hawaii may still targeted; I never said it could not. However, Hawaii would potentially move from a primary to a much better secondary target. That would be much better for all of us who live here. Do you agree?
That's an odd method. "Target, referencing nuclear bombs" Explain that. What is your objective? A "secondary" target? SO in another words, Hawaii would still be on a target list. But again, I wasn't raised or educated on NK or any other countries' decision making processes. So I wouldn't know. I wouldn't want to be that person to tell US leaders that "hey, if we moved all military out of Hawaii - no nation would want to target that state"
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If anything like the federal government, if it's his first disciplinary offense, he surely will not be fired. More likely a letter of reprimand and possibly reassigned. Sounds like the new policy will be that this is controlled by the military, which is where it should have resided in the first place.
Hawaii Government Employee Association
Union won't let him be fired if they think he's being used as a scapegoat. If it was intentional and can be proven, then maybe he'll get canned.
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I do not think I can comment on who would have it worse. Guam is geographically closer to the DPRK, China, or Russia and would be attrative in that respect.
Would Guam be lesser of a target if they had a smaller US military footprint? I speculatively think so. However, they are most likely on someone's hit list now beacuse of that footprint.
There you go - your whole argument is speculative.
And who's "hit list" are they on? China? NK?
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That's an odd method. "Target, referencing nuclear bombs" Explain that. What is your objective? A "secondary" target? SO in another words, Hawaii would still be on a target list. But again, I wasn't raised or educated on NK or any other countries' decision making processes. So I wouldn't know. I wouldn't want to be that person to tell US leaders that "hey, if we moved all military out of Hawaii - no nation would want to target that state"
I agree with you.
However, as a person who loves and lives in Hawaii, I WANT to be that person to inform US leaders that the larger the military presence in Hawaii they decide to base there, the riskier for the residents who live there of nuclear destruction.
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I don't think you understand how the component commands fit into the bigger picture of operational command.
The peacetime role of the military is to train, equip, and maintain readiness. When called on to support an operational mission, they are placed under the command of a theater command structure. Did you know the war in the Persian Gulf region was run from Bahrain? That's where joint component commanders from the US and all the allies coordinated operations.
I'm not going to even try to educate you on military support and operational doctrine. It's way too involved. Plus, for all I know, some NK intelligence officer is printing out this thread as we hit the "ALERT" key.
And there you have OUR way of conducting military operations. The North Koreans and the rest of the world do things differently. Their decision processes and cycles differ. They perceive things differently than we do.
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I agree with you.
However, as a person who loves and lives in Hawaii, I WANT to be that person to inform US leaders that the larger the military presence in Hawaii they decide to base there, the riskier for the residents who live there of nuclear destruction.
I feel the same way. Born and raised here. By all means you can be that person but you'd need a very strong argument supported with lots of data and facts.
i.e. I was there in North Korea's War Room accompanied by Dennis Rodman and I have their target list and white paper. It says that Kim Jun Un WILL NOT target Hawaii IF all military presence is relocated somewhere else.
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"unconditional love and support" you make a lot of presumptions with that one.
This argument has nothing with what I feel.
You constant rebuttals to my posts has a lot to do of how you feel about the US military presence here in Hawaii. Why are you denying it?
Tell the truth, I am correct on your feelings of a strong military presence in Hawaii, regardless of the potential civilians deaths it could result from a nuclear attack. Right?
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You constant rebuttals to my posts has a lot to do of how you feel about the US military presence here in Hawaii. Why are you denying it?
Tell the truth, I am correct on your feelings of a strong military presence in Hawaii, regardless of the potential civilians deaths it could result from a nuclear attack. Right?
Negative you are wrong about how I feel. My feelings are irrelevant to your argument of a military presence. I'm asking you for supporting information. Not about how you or I feel. I don't know you outside of this forum.
Your attempt to appeal to feelings is a sign that you have no supporting data or facts to your argument.
Like I stated before. If you have solid, supporting information to your argument I'd probably support the argument of relocating the military out of Hawaii. Dennis Rodman is a far more credible source than you or I.
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All of this is my opinion only. I have no information to share.
My opinion is that Hawaii is too commonly known a target. Why not aim a nuke somewhere we are not expecting. Maybe the nuke would have a better chance of doing more damage and hurting us more in loss of life and financial loss. Which seems like how our non-sofisticated enemies seem to want to hurt us. Let me use a couple of real life examples. First the NY Trade Center. Maximized loss of life and shut down our financial markets for a time. The next example is Guam. Even though Guam has been a threat to NK, the threat caught the U.S. somewhat with their pants down. They have since reinforced and heavily fortified Guam. And let's not forget the attack on Pearl Harbor.
The element of surprise is what could inflict the most damage, loss of life and maximize financial loss. I would just make a guess but I would guess all nuclear power plants, damns and even other world trade centers in the U.S. And then there are major cities with densely packed high rises. And let's not forget the threat of an EMP on our grid. My opinion is that we are quite vulnerable as our missile defense system is far from perfect. JMHO
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I do not understand your question. However, if you are referring to a pressing of a wrong button type situation, then of course they would be panic and anger.
you said:
Hawaii military, Am. Samoa not
you said:
Hawaii nuke target, Am. Samoa not
you said:
Hawaii people scared of nukes, Am. Samoa not
you said:
therefore Hawaii panic and anger from false alert, Am. Samoa panic and anger from theoretically same false alert
you see where your argument falls apart?
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(https://i.imgur.com/WTDnnwE.gif)
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(https://i.imgur.com/WTDnnwE.gif)
You have to show proof that horse is dead. Otherwise you are encouraging animal cruelty. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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You have to show proof that horse is dead. Otherwise you are encouraging animal cruelty. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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(https://i.imgur.com/WTDnnwE.gif)
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exactly :rofl: :thumbsup:
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stupid horse
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RE: the button
It's pretty easy to send out public alerts. A lot of agencies have the capability. Police, weather, hurricane, tsunami, etc etc.
It would be erroneous to think that only that one guy in HEMA is responsible for public alerts.
With that many people having the capability to push the button, it's easy to understand that human error can happen.
In fact it has happened before. Not that long ago.
In recent years, CD sirens were triggered by malfunction. Some sirens din't even work.
The state just installed brand new sirens across the street from my house last week.
Now having said that, let's think about what the politicians and the general public is screaming for.
Do we really want or need to have more safeguards in place?
In a dire emergency such as a missile launch, or offshore earthquake/tsunami, or Amber Alert, or tornado, seconds do matter.
Additional safety authentication procedures can only slow down the delivery process.
As it is with many things in life, there is always a balance between speed and accuracy. This is a lesson that IPSC shooters learn very early.
A combat shooter can score all A zone hits but it takes too long....you lose
A combat shooter can blaze away at 100 MPH and get poor hits....you lose again
A pocket knife can be honed to a razor edge, but a little error will slice you...you lose
There is no perfect system that works 100% flawlessly. It's always going to be a balance of speed and accuracy.
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Easy enough to solve the dead horse sophistry:
Kauai, Oahu, Maui, Big Island
Pick the one least likely to get nuked and give your reasons why.
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My coworkers are pretty unprepared for any disasters so I shared this information with them. You guys might find it useful as well.
On the big island, Hilo Surplus store carries #10 cans of mountain house freeze dried food. These cans last 30 years if unopened. They are so expensive to ship here.
http://hilosurplusstore.com/
Chem-Tainer in Hilo has large (up to 4000 gallons) water storage tanks
http://www.chemtainerofhawaii.com/category.aspx?cid=2
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They have since reinforced and heavily fortified Guam.
So much that the island may tip over. 8)
Folks from many Asian countries are taking the spoken threats to Guam seriously. The “shopping tourism” thing is was down, or was when I was there in December. I found somewhat amusing that tourists numbers from South Korea actually went up. I guess with the lower numbers from Japan and China, the pricing went down. They interviewed folks from South Korea and they said basically “so what”. They’ve lived with the almost constant threats from NK so they are relatively numb to it now.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBzvd3Fj0Zg
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So much that the island may tip over. 8)
I contend that Southern California is sinking because of the added weight of all that silicone down there. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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so now the state is trying to pin the blame on the feds, that they needed to get their approval before sending out the correction false alert message, and saying that it's the feds fault because they couldn't get ahold of anybody on saturday?
that is so weak lame assed. KHON2 called them out on that.
{edited}
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so now the state is trying to pin the blame on the feds, that they needed to get their approval before sending out the correction false alert message, and saying that it's the feds fault because they couldn't get ahold of anybody on saturday?
that is so weak lame assed. KHON2 called them out on that.
Vern Miyagi should resign. After all, he himself said he's responsible. If so, then man up and take the hit. Ige should not need to ask for his resignation, it should be on the governors desk first thing in the morning. Gee whiz, he's over there consoling the 10-yr employee who screwed up, telling him to hang in there. Wrong message. So wrong. Doing a Group Hug and singing Kumbaya aren't the right remedies.
instead, he's doing the double dipping, retired state guard, then state civil service, to double up on the pensions. not bad, until you screw up, then it's time to get off the gravy train.
============
Trust me when I say Vern should absolutely not resign. He is a friend and fellow gun club member.
If the sh-t ever really hits the fan, that's the guy you want in charge.
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Trust me when I say Vern should absolutely not resign. He is a friend and fellow gun club member.
If the sh-t ever really hits the fan, that's the guy you want in charge.
okay Old Fart, I'll take your word for that. edited.
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RE: the button
It's pretty easy to send out public alerts. A lot of agencies have the capability. Police, weather, hurricane, tsunami, etc etc.
It would be erroneous to think that only that one guy in HEMA is responsible for public alerts.
With that many people having the capability to push the button, it's easy to understand that human error can happen.
In fact it has happened before. Not that long ago.
In recent years, CD sirens were triggered by malfunction. Some sirens din't even work.
The state just installed brand new sirens across the street from my house last week.
Now having said that, let's think about what the politicians and the general public is screaming for.
Do we really want or need to have more safeguards in place?
In a dire emergency such as a missile launch, or offshore earthquake/tsunami, or Amber Alert, or tornado, seconds do matter.
Additional safety authentication procedures can only slow down the delivery process.
As it is with many things in life, there is always a balance between speed and accuracy. This is a lesson that IPSC shooters learn very early.
A combat shooter can score all A zone hits but it takes too long....you lose
A combat shooter can blaze away at 100 MPH and get poor hits....you lose again
A pocket knife can be honed to a razor edge, but a little error will slice you...you lose
There is no perfect system that works 100% flawlessly. It's always going to be a balance of speed and accuracy.
Damn it.
I wanted to put bars over all of my windows. In the event of a fire, I may not be able to escape. I lose.
I wanted to put more deadbolts on my doors. The kind that need the key on both sides to lock and unlock. If I lose my keys, I lose.
Those are more safeguards.
Losing sucks!
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
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Damn it.
I wanted to put bars over all of my windows. In the event of a fire, I may not be able to escape. I lose.
I wanted to put more deadbolts on my doors. The kind that need the key on both sides to lock and unlock. If I lose my keys, I lose.
Those are more safeguards.
Losing sucks!
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
==========
The classic example of excess safety is a home defense firearm.
You need it to be safe from tampering but available in seconds.
I think we can all understand that concept.
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okay Old Fart, I'll take your word for that. edited.
I'll put my trust in O.F.
Straight up.
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I'll put my trust in O.F.
Straight up.
==========
Thanks for the vote of confidence.
Over the years I came to know many knowledgeable firearms aficionados who hold positions of authority.
Guys who know me know that I have been sending out public emergency tests for decades.
By necessity, it is a fast and fairly easy process.
The guy that pushed the button got an appropriate disciplinary action.
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============
Trust me when I say Vern should absolutely not resign. He is a friend and fellow gun club member.
If the sh-t ever really hits the fan, that's the guy you want in charge.
Sounds like a vote for the "good old boys club". No thanks.
I'm with FCC chairman Ajit Pai and Jason Chaffetz, et al., who state the obvious: any system design and implementation that would allow a single person acting alone to make such a message public without any checks and verification by other parties, and then take 38 minutes to rescind the "human error" it is a fatally flawed system, and the designers and bureaucrats who oversaw the design, development, implementation and subsequent failure of the system are responsible and should be held accountable. In my book "responsible" means removing ("firing", not "transferred to another position") the people who were incapable of seeing an obvious flaw, which would clearly include Mr. Miyagi. Fire his ass and rescind his double dipping pensions. As a start. Okay, now who's responsible for the government-spewed lie that Hawaii had to get approval from FEMA before they could issue the retraction and that's why it took 38 minutes?
Edited to add these links:
FEMA: Ige, Miyagi Wrong About 38 Minute Delay [Possible subtitle: Ignorant or Liars?]
http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/ArticlesMain/tabid/56/ID/20931/FEMA-Ige-Miyagi-Wrong-About-38-Minute-Delay.aspx
In Hawaii, No Heads Roll over False Missile Alarm
It’s time we demand more accountability from the people who have such influence over our daily lives.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/455431/hawaii-missile-false-alarm-no-consequences-bureaucrats
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Sounds like a vote for the "good old boys club". No thanks.
I'm with FCC chairman Ajit Pai and Jason Chaffetz, et al., who state the obvious: any system design and implementation that would allow a single person acting alone to make such a message public without any checks and verification by other parties, and then take 38 minutes to rescind the "human error" it is a fatally flawed system, and the designers and bureaucrats who oversaw the design, development, implementation and subsequent failure of the system are responsible and should be held accountable. In my book "responsible" means removing ("firing", not "transferred to another position") the people who were incapable of seeing an obvious flaw, which would clearly include Mr. Miyagi. Fire his ass and rescind his double dipping pensions. As a start. Okay, now who's responsible for the government-spewed lie that Hawaii had to get approval from FEMA before they could issue the retraction and that's why it took 38 minutes?
Edited to add these links:
FEMA: Ige, Miyagi Wrong About 38 Minute Delay [Possible subtitle: Ignorant or Liars?]
http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/ArticlesMain/tabid/56/ID/20931/FEMA-Ige-Miyagi-Wrong-About-38-Minute-Delay.aspx
In Hawaii, No Heads Roll over False Missile Alarm
It’s time we demand more accountability from the people who have such influence over our daily lives.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/455431/hawaii-missile-false-alarm-no-consequences-bureaucrats
i'll take oldfart's word on this one too
I am assuming, PP, that you have never made a mistake?
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i'll take oldfart's word on this one too
I am assuming, PP, that you have never made a mistake?
Red herring, but
As I have never overseen the design and implementation of any system that distressed (in some cases panicked) over 1.5 million people due to an obvious flaw wherein one person alone, without any checks or verification, could trigger the alert, and then due to incompetence and/or ignorance didn't issue a retraction for 38 minutes because they didn't know how to do it, I have thus never made a "mistake" that had anything even remotely resembling the consequences of Miyagi's.
Why would you believe that someone that incompetent/ignorant in the first place, will be able to get the entire system correctly configured now? Sure, they may make "corrections" for these two disastrously illustrated issues, but what else is lurking in the entire system that they have "overlooked"?
Miyagi and the entire bureaucracy responsible for designing and approving the system should be fired, and the state should turn over the hiring process to FEMA or some other independent agency in order to get someone competent and not just another member of the good ol' boys club (as the prosecution did in the Kealoha cases with bringing in prosecutors from the mainland). Of course we know that won't happen because... Hawaii.
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Not sure what happened since I wasn’t there. An investigation into what happened, how to improve, etc is warranted instead of jumping to conclusions and acting rashly.
Should there be consequences? Hell yes. Even if the person(s) responsible acted out of ignorance, plain mistake, etc. I doubt any malicious intent, but barring that, I don’t see the person getting fired. It’s the State. I’ve worked for the system and you can’t even fire a “Johnny Do Nothing”. Yes, there was such a person when I was a summer student and worked for the C&C.
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Can we get back to talking about shooting?
Lately I've noticed that non 2a topics like this get more responses than other firearms related topics. I think because a lot of knowledgeable shooters just left and don't bother to return to this site. Let's steer this 2A ship back on course.
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Not sure if anyone watched the press conference Miyagi had, but when asked why the "cancel button" took so long to send out, his reply was that they're more concerned with the out going message alert quickness vs. the quick cancellation alert when the system was designed. Granted one could say that they didn't plan for Murphy.
He also stated that everyone in that office has the authority to send the alerts. This way they don't have to worry about contacting Miyagi if there is a real threat. What if phone lines are down, or he is unable to be reached (injured), you don't want to have to wait to send the alert.
He did what a good leader does by taking full responsibility even if he wasn't there at the time. And look into actions to prevent future false alarms.
Also I had some false flag concerns, but after talking to someone who lives next to a missile detection launch worker (job), that person was home on Saturday and didn't suddenly leave their home to go to work. Which I would assume would happen if there was a real threat, all people in the department would probably be called in. Also I talked to multiple people who live near the bases (Pearl, Hickam, Kaneohe MCB, Wheeler, etc...) and there was no "increased activity" that could be seen.
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Red herring
lol
yeah
it was a rhetorical question
:shaka:
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Can we get back to talking about shooting?
Lately I've noticed that non 2a topics like this get more responses than other firearms related topics. I think because a lot of knowledgeable shooters just left and don't bother to return to this site. Let's steer this 2A ship back on course.
Mrs changemyoil asked if we can bring our guns if we bug out. I told her absolutely, because where ever we go will be our new place of sojourn. Even if it's the Pali Lookout or some bush area. But we wouldn't open carry because a shelter may tell you to leave or disarm. So she is currently looking to buy new long pants that has an extra 2 inches on the waist so she can IWB carry vs. keeping it in her purse. You know girls, they buy pants that fit the waist perfectly.
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Let me end this argument regarding military presence increases target viability,
What was the significant (or any) military presence responsible for the targeting of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. :closed:
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Can we get back to talking about shooting?
Lately I've noticed that non 2a topics like this get more responses than other firearms related topics. I think because a lot of knowledgeable shooters just left and don't bother to return to this site. Let's steer this 2A ship back on course.
I always assumed that the "2a" in "2aHawaii" meant "Second Amendment". That is an inherently "political" and "legal" topic and would include following the government actions that (peripherally) have an effect (directly or indirectly) such as the top-down screw up on the missile alert.
Perhaps rather than having Topics and Threads with non-2a subject matter the site name should be changed to something along the lines of "guns and shooting in Hawaii" and include no forums or topics relating to "political" or "legal" issues? Or someone should start that website and just allow knowledgeable shooters to post and thus not have to be bothered with all the political and legal crap.
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Let me end this argument regarding military presence increases target viability,
What was the significant (or any) military presence responsible for the targeting of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. :closed:
Or firebombing Tokyo, which killed almost a million people compared with 300k for Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
When you specifically target civilians it's called a war crime. And if you lose the war they hang you for it.
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Or firebombing Tokyo, which killed almost a million people compared with 300k for Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
When you specifically target civilians it's called a war crime. And if you lose the war they hang you for it.
From what I remember my military history professor at UH teaching us, they didn't atom bomb Tokyo because the palace was near/in there. And they didn't want to harm the emperor because he was needed to tell the citizens of Japan to stand down. By killing him, it would only anger them more and they would fight us to the death to avenge the emperor. So they firebombed around the area instead.
Hiroshima was a populated enough city to send a message, but not kill even more (higher populated cities). Then the emperor thought we only had 1 bomb, so we hit Nagasaki to prove we had more than 1 and that this will continue without their unconditional surrender.
Again I'm going from memory so don't hold me 100% accurate on this, I do sleep in a lot of my classes. :sleeping:
But also, times were different and targeting cities (non-military targets) was acceptable, the Germans bombed London, we hit Berlin, etc...
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But also, times were different and targeting cities (non-military targets) was acceptable, the Germans bombed London, we hit Berlin, etc...
Both cities had significant military value IIRC. Lots of military heavy manufacturing.
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Both cities had significant military value IIRC. Lots of military heavy manufacturing.
Some of the important considerations were:
1. The range of the aircraft which would carry the bomb.
2. The desirability of visual bombing in order to insure the most effective use of the bomb.
3. Probable weather conditions in the target areas.
4. Importance of having one primary and two secondary targets for each mission, so that if weather conditions prohibited bombing the target there would be at least two alternates.
5. Selection of targets to produce the greatest military effect on the Japanese people and thereby most effectively shorten the war.
6. The morale effect upon the enemy.
These led in turn to the following:
1. Since the atomic bomb was expected to produce its greatest amount of damage by primary blast effect, and next greatest by fires, the targets should contain a large percentage of closely-built frame buildings and other construction that would be most susceptible to damage by blast and fire.
2. The maximum blast effect of the bomb was calculated to extend over an area of approximately 1 mile in radius; therefore the selected targets should contain a densely built-up area of at least this size.
3. The selected targets should have a high military strategic value.
4. The first target should be relatively untouched by previous bombing, in order that the effect of a single atomic bomb could be determined.
Hiroshima was a city of considerable military importance. It contained the 2nd Army Headquarters, which commanded
the defense of all of southern Japan. The city was a communications center, a storage point, and an assembly area for
troops. To quote a Japanese report, "Probably more than a thousand times since the beginning of the war did the
Hiroshima citizens see off with cries of 'Banzai' the troops leaving from the harbor."
The city of Nagasaki had been one of the largest sea ports in southern Japan and was of great war-time importance
because of its many and varied industries, including the production of ordnance, ships, military equipment, and other
war materials. The narrow long strip attacked was of particular importance because of its industries.
The weather records showed that for five years there had never been two successive good visual bombing days over Tokyo,
indicating what might be expected over other targets in the home islands. The worst month of the year for visual bombing
was believed to be June, after which the weather should improve slightly during July and August and then become worse
again during September.
http://www.atomicarchive.com/Docs/MED/med_chp5.shtml
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http://www.atomicarchive.com/Docs/MED/med_chp5.shtml
The funny thing is that I visited the atomic testing museum in Vegas and it had very little on the Japan bombings. Granted the museum's main focus is the development and testing, but the actual release, usage, and after effets should be pretty important also.
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Just happened in Japan too......
http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/16/asia/japan-false-missile-alarm-intl/index.html
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Just happened in Japan too......
http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/16/asia/japan-false-missile-alarm-intl/index.html
I just put my tin foil back inside the cabinet. Dammit now I have to go grab it again.
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I just put my tin foil back inside the cabinet. Dammit now I have to go grab it again.
I didn't know Trump was in Japan today .... :crazy:
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Friend living in Yokohama said they for evacuation and take shelter type warnings for the last two missile tests that flew over Hokkaido. Those two really shook people up. Didn’t hear about this one though.
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I didn't know Trump was in Japan today .... :crazy:
Ige and his CIO was in Tokyo maybe 1-2 months ago. It was them.
Kidding. I went to college with the CIO. If you only knew...
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"TOKYO (Reuters) - Japanese public broadcaster NHK issued a false alarm on Tuesday saying North Korea appeared to have launched a missile and urging people to take shelter, but it managed to correct the error within minutes.
“This happened because equipment to send a news flash onto the Internet had been incorrectly operated. We are deeply sorry,” an NHK announcer said on its 9:00 p.m. news program, bowing deeply in apology."
Operator error, again. I guess this is the new norm. 2018 will be known as the year of Nuke False Alerts, never mind "year of the donkey" or whatever it is this year. I think if a couple more false alerts are issued (anywhere, world wide), the alerts will have lost all credibility. Again, Hawaii is a leader (of a not-good-thing, like Rap Back).
at least they got their correction statement out "within minutes", (5 or less), not 38 minutes.
for Hawaii, if it's fo' real, next time, they might have to say "This is not a drill. Seriously. No Kidding. This is For Real. You're on your own, Buddy, if you ignore this one."
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and folks are getting upset because store owners were kicking them out, and closing up shop? huh? so, does a store owner have a social responsibility to stay open while the nuke missile is gonna drop on his head in a couple minutes, and ignore his own family and loved ones? I didn't quite follow that. maybe I missed the point.
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So where was the Lieutenant Governor?
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The missile alert message was confirmed to be fake news and Trump said nothing about it on twitter. :D
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The missile alert message was confirmed to be fake news and Trump said nothing about it on twitter. :D
Because Hawaii owned up to the mistake. He couldve railed on the governor lke the rest of the Democrats vying for power but he didnt.
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Because Hawaii owned up to the mistake. He couldve railed on the governor lke the rest of the Democrats vying for power but he didnt.
The FCC is investigating the alert release.
Trump IS doing something -- via proper channels and agencies. Trump isn't going to do the investigation himself.
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There is an informational briefing on the incident at the state capitol auditorium, Jan 19 at 10 am. No public testimony.
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Ward: Step- by-step walkthrough of the software, hardware, and personnel that led to false alarm
“Quite frankly, the information we have been given in mea culpa simplicity terms of human error lacks credibility. Until I see the room the decision was made in and the step-by-step decision tree, I find it incredible that one person without any safe guards has the full faith and confidence of the Governor and Generals, without the approval from PACOM to tell 1.4 million people that a nuclear weapon is on its way to Hawaiʻi,” Ward said.
http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/ArticlesMain/tabid/56/ID/20936/Ward-Step-by-step-walkthrough-of-the-software-hardware-and-personnel-that-led-to-false-alarm.aspx
[AND... they can't get their story straight... "one person pressed the wrong button"... except someone now claims there were four officers in the room, including a supervisor... this is getting good!]
Button-pusher-not-holding-up-well-under-multiple-death-threats
On Saturday morning four people were on duty, including a supervisor who also was coming on during a shift change, Clairmont said.
“It’s not as easy saying it was one person doing this,” Clairmont said. “It would be very unjust to put our finger on one person. … There were at least four people in the room at the time, including a supervisor and three warning officers. That’s what leads us to believe it’s not as simple as people think. Maybe something was said in the room that was misinterpreted. Maybe there were too many people in the room.”
A supervisor “has to approve the action,” Clairmont said. “You see? It’s complicated. We need to get into exactly what happened.”
But it was one warning officer, in particular, “who clicked the button,” Clairmont said. “There was one individual, a very well-trained and seasoned employee. He’s not someone we hired off the street. This was someone we could depend on. There had to be more to it.” ….
http://www.staradvertiser.com/2018/01/16/hawaii-news/button-pusher-not-holding-up-well-under-multiple-death-threats/?HSA=1b4b8004f8fe36dfbcbb34e2459e4be452be4162
[Then there's the former governor...]
Abercrombie Ridicules Claim that Ige Needed FEMA Permission to Retract Warning
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/37270953/former-gov-neil-abercrombie-blasts-ige-administration-over-missile-alert-miscue
HNN: …"In this instance, the leader was AWOL. In this instance, the leader completely dropped the ball. In this instance, the leader was apparently frozen in place,” said Abercrombie.
It took the administration 38 minutes to correct the emergency alert, which stated that a “ballistic missile threat inbound to Hawaii,” traumatizing thousands of isle residents and tourists.
State emergency officials said additional time was needed to send the all clear because they needed to coordinate that response with federal officials on the mainland.
"It amazed me when I heard this. Oh well we couldn't do that because we had to check with somebody on the mainland on Saturday afternoon if it was okay to tell them that people that they're probably not going to die,” said Abercrombie….
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Ok, guys. Things are getting way to serious with this discussion.
I need to interject with a little levity:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qjpG-0Qg0s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qjpG-0Qg0s)
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Classic ! :rofl:
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Check this out.... If real SMFH! >:( ::)
https://www.facebook.com/UnbiasedAmerica/photos/a.130184327167571.1073741828.123061011213236/741788052673859/?type=3&theater
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26815423_741788052673859_6532955492187630729_n.jpg?oh=91dd2d10186e0a36caca9e619d84dcde&oe=5AF95040)
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Associated Press photo.
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Yes, that is a password stuck to a screen at Hawaii's emergency management HQ
Richard Rapoza, emergency management agency spokesman, confirmed that the password is authentic and was actually used for an "internal application."
He said he didn't believe that application is any longer in use, but declined to say what application the password was for.
"It wasn't for any major piece of software," he said, while also acknowledging that it's not a good idea to have a password in plain sight, especially with news cameras around.
Rapoza added that the password debacle isn't the most outlandish issue he's had to tackle this week — false alerts aside.
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/37279882/yes-that-is-a-password-stuck-to-a-screen-at-hawaiis-emergency-management-hq
The state can't agree on what the missile alert interface actually looks like
The confusing and seemingly rudimentary design quickly grabbed headlines nationally.
But a day later, the state's emergency management agency is disputing that image — and has released a different one.
Officials from the Hawaii Emergency Management Agency said the first image was sent in error, but declined to provide an actual photo of the interface.
Instead on Tuesday, they gave Hawaii News Now something they said was similar to the actual interface, and it included a drop down menu — not a list of possible real and test alerts.
The revelation was another chapter in what some have called a frustrating (and, at times, downright bizarre) response to Saturday's false alarm about an inbound ballistic missile.
Richard Rapoza, emergency management agency spokesman, said of the newly-released image: "This is a close facsimile. The operator should have selected the 'DRILL-PACOM (DEMO)' option, but instead clicked on the 'PACOM (CDW)' option."
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/37271628/officials-release-image-of-hiema-screen-that-triggered-incorrect-missile-alert
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I thought is was Photoshopped or something along those lines.
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I thought is was Photoshopped or something along those lines.
Nowadays, with all the fake crap out there, it's pretty much a lie until authenticated by 18 independent sources with video, affidavits, and a complete DNA report. :rofl:
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Yes, that is a password stuck to a screen at Hawaii's emergency management HQ
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/37279882/yes-that-is-a-password-stuck-to-a-screen-at-hawaiis-emergency-management-hq
The state can't agree on what the missile alert interface actually looks like
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/37271628/officials-release-image-of-hiema-screen-that-triggered-incorrect-missile-alert
Haha famous last words!
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well, just as I thought - we all will end up paying for this.
Now lawmakers want to ensure schools are prepared for the very slight chance we get hit.
http://khon2.com/2018/01/16/will-schools-be-ready-if-disaster-strikes-false-alarm-prompts-call-for-action/ (http://khon2.com/2018/01/16/will-schools-be-ready-if-disaster-strikes-false-alarm-prompts-call-for-action/)
on top of the micro managing and "what ifs" govt. will find ways to spend our tax money for increased oversight, more bureaucracy and more preparations to be prepared.
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well, just as I thought - we all will end up paying for this.
Now lawmakers want to ensure schools are prepared for the very slight chance we get hit.
http://khon2.com/2018/01/16/will-schools-be-ready-if-disaster-strikes-false-alarm-prompts-call-for-action/ (http://khon2.com/2018/01/16/will-schools-be-ready-if-disaster-strikes-false-alarm-prompts-call-for-action/)
on top of the micro managing and "what ifs" govt. will find ways to spend our tax money for increased oversight, more bureaucracy and more preparations to be prepared.
If we can prepare for surviving a missile strike, we should be ready for any disaster -- natural or man-made.
At least it won't be wasted for just one contingency.
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some notes:
hi ema does operate on a shoestring budget. Been asking the leg for years for more funds to improve things like their software, better equipment, etc - always denied. So in actuality, whos fault is it that they dont have the funds necessary to buy, develop, or contract out a competent software, paving the way for such an incident to occur? So if it ends up that they're finally allocated some money to better equip hawaii for natural disasters, that's probably a good thing. Better preparations for ballistic missile will positively affect readiness in all areas.
Leadership is lacking all around... "someone", whether it be the administrator, #2, #3, #4 in command, the governor, a senator, ANYONE should have issued the order to send a correction text immediately, regulations or perceived regulations be damned. Whatever method was used to communicate the alert should be cancelled using that method immediately, that is common sense. If they immediately issued a correcting text, this would be a much smaller incident. Maybe FEMA would have slapped the back of hi ema's wrists and said "bad boy you didn't follow regulations", but who fucking cares? All these idiots are doing is covering their own asses and grandstanding because its an election year. Look for a lot more fingerpointing and other BS to come. BUT this is hawaii, and incompetence and stupidity is the status quo.
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some notes:
hi ema does operate on a shoestring budget. Been asking the leg for years for more funds to improve things like their software, better equipment, etc - always denied. So in actuality, whos fault is it that they dont have the funds necessary to buy, develop, or contract out a competent software, paving the way for such an incident to occur? So if it ends up that they're finally allocated some money to better equip hawaii for natural disasters, that's probably a good thing. Better preparations for ballistic missile will positively affect readiness in all areas.
We are one of 50 states (58, if you ask Obama), and 16 territories and insular areas. It's mind boggling to me that the FCC doesn't have a standard Emergency Broadcast software package that everyone is required to use. A standardized system would ensure everyone has the came capabilities, including standard, approved message templates for any contingency.
Having each state reinvent the wheel is why states waste so much money. But, I guess we couldn't use the motto "Hawaii is different" if we adopted working solutions from anyone else.
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The fact that Trump didn't take the opportunity to bash Hawaii's democratic leadership made me suspicious.
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I know "correlation is not causation" but...
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTwcgMZXUAAn1uX.jpg)
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I know "correlation is not causation" but...
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTwcgMZXUAAn1uX.jpg)
Guess some of us had to get our porn fix in before we start to glow in the dark. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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That is an interesting statistic.
It is natures survival instinct to compel animals to breed when threatened.
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The timing says people weren't interested in oofing when they though they were going to die, but once the danger passed there was increased need for release.
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That is an interesting statistic.
It is natures survival instinct to compel animals to breed when threatened.
I like living on the edge, I was on the site during. Hahahaha
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some notes:
hi ema does operate on a shoestring budget. Been asking the leg for years for more funds to improve things like their software, better equipment, etc - always denied. So in actuality, whos fault is it that they dont have the funds necessary to buy, develop, or contract out a competent software, paving the way for such an incident to occur? So if it ends up that they're finally allocated some money to better equip hawaii for natural disasters, that's probably a good thing. Better preparations for ballistic missile will positively affect readiness in all areas.
Leadership is lacking all around... "someone", whether it be the administrator, #2, #3, #4 in command, the governor, a senator, ANYONE should have issued the order to send a correction text immediately, regulations or perceived regulations be damned. Whatever method was used to communicate the alert should be cancelled using that method immediately, that is common sense. If they immediately issued a correcting text, this would be a much smaller incident. Maybe FEMA would have slapped the back of hi ema's wrists and said "bad boy you didn't follow regulations", but who fucking cares? All these idiots are doing is covering their own asses and grandstanding because its an election year. Look for a lot more fingerpointing and other BS to come. BUT this is hawaii, and incompetence and stupidity is the status quo.
Dear Representative Schatz.
As you are assigned to the Senate Commerce Subcommittee on Communications Technology, Innovation, and the Internet which "includes telephones, cell phones, the Internet, commercial and noncommercial television, cable, satellite broadcast, satellite communications, wireline and wireless broadband, radio, consumer electronic equipment associated with such services, and public safety communications." were you not responsible to make sure ALL of Hawaii residents be warned of an impending missile strike on our homeland ?
Or better yet, to be sure the message went out to all that it was a false alarm immediately?
Your position on the Senate Appropriations Subcommittee on Labor, Health and Human Services, Education, and Related Agencies which includes "protecting the health of all Americans and providing essential human services" is also an apparent failure as there was no protection available nor any " essential human services" provided during the 38 minutes of panic and chaos.
To not accept any blame in this fiasco and to point fingers at others is ludicrous. You state that we should remove the HI EMS warning system and start anew because we already have another functioning system. I assume that you are referring to the warning sirens which I haven't seen work with even close to 100% efficiency in years.
In closing, find you just as guilty as the employee who inadvertently "pushed the button" for the panic in Hawaii January 13, 2018.
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I escorted two of my coworkers down to HPD and got them signed up for their long gun permits. The scare made them realize that they would have had much greater peace of mind if they were able to protect themselves during a crisis.
Two more AR’s are about to come into “common use” as a silver lining.
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I escorted two of my coworkers down to HPD and got them signed up for their long gun permits. The scare made them realize that they would have had much greater peace of mind if they were able to protect themselves during a crisis.
Two more AR’s are about to come into “common use” as a silver lining.
Just 2? Give them a few months, more will be added.
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Exactly!
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SA news article has plenty first time gun buyers going through the process, majority women buying small caliber handguns. Paying upfront for safety class + handgun that they wont be able to take home for weeks after. crazy. So in about 2 weeks, HPD is going to have a deluge of first timers registering handguns
to each his own, but idk if I'd pick an AR as a first gun for defense during a crisis. If things go haywire with any type of major disaster, you're better off with a concealable pistol to protect yourself in and out of your house.
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seriously, we couldn't even make this stuff up if we were totally wasted. c'mon man!
"Gov. David Ige says he and his team took so long to post a message to social media about the recent missile alert being a false alarm because he didn't know his Twitter username and password. Ige told reporters Monday he's since put his username and password into his cellphone. He says he can now use social media without waiting for his staff. The governor was asked why his Twitter account relayed a Hawaii Emergency Management Agency tweet about the false alarm at 8:24 a.m. on Jan. 13 even though Ige learned about the mistake 15 minutes earlier at 8:09 a.m."
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/01/23/hawaii-governor-took-long-to-post-on-twitter-about-missile-alert-because-forgot-username-password.html (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/01/23/hawaii-governor-took-long-to-post-on-twitter-about-missile-alert-because-forgot-username-password.html)
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seriously, we couldn't even make this stuff up if we were totally wasted. c'mon man!
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/01/23/hawaii-governor-took-long-to-post-on-twitter-about-missile-alert-because-forgot-username-password.html (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/01/23/hawaii-governor-took-long-to-post-on-twitter-about-missile-alert-because-forgot-username-password.html)
If I had to guess...
Username: Muppet
PW: Kermit
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If I had to guess...
Username: Muppet
PW: Kermit
:rofl:
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Tsunami Watch
Hawaii
HAWAII THE ESTIMATED EARLIEST ARRIVAL OF THE FIRST TSUNAMI WAVE IS 0426 AM HST TUE 23 JAN 2018 FURTHER MESSAGES WILL BE ISSUED HOURLY OR SOONER AS CONDITIONS WARRANT UNTIL THE ...
Lets hope the govnor can get it right this time if a tsunami actually comes. Note that Alaska earthquakes caused various major tsunamis in hawaii in the past
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Tsunami Watch
Hawaii
HAWAII THE ESTIMATED EARLIEST ARRIVAL OF THE FIRST TSUNAMI WAVE IS 0426 AM HST TUE 23 JAN 2018 FURTHER MESSAGES WILL BE ISSUED HOURLY OR SOONER AS CONDITIONS WARRANT UNTIL THE ...
Lets hope the govnor can get it right this time if a tsunami actually comes. Note that Alaska earthquakes caused various major tsunamis in hawaii in the past
Rec'd same.
Stay safe and keep fingers crossed, all.
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(https://i.imgur.com/WAiARF7.jpg?1)
Event local Time: 11:31 PM Monday 1/22 HST
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(https://i.imgur.com/q75gYa6.png)
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Tsunami Watch Canceled as of 01:10 AM HST
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Tsunami Watch Canceled as of 01:10 AM HST
See. They learn from the past. Ige put his user name and password on a Post-it and stuck it on the monitor like the guys in the bunker.
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WATCH alerts are issued all the time but nobody hears about them because they are not required to be forwarded to the general public via radio or tv stations.
The most common watch alert is flash flooding. But by that time I think everbody knows it's raining a lot.
WARNING alerts are generally required to be broadcast.
The warning that worries me the most is the tsunami warning since we live along a fault line.
If a nearby offshore earthquake triggers a tsunami, the folks near the beach have almost no time to evacuate.
Those damn sirens better work. I got family along the coastline.
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If you don't have it installed, you should consider the HNL Info app for your phone. That's how I get the most warnings from state agencies. I get all the high wind, high surf and flash flood advisories. I also received the tsunami advisories last night as well as the cancelation from this app.
You can subscribe to any of 9 current alert categories. They add more occasionally: Police, fire, EMS, road closures, water main breaks, etc.
Android
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=gov.honolulu.hnlinfo&hl=en
Apple
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/hnl-info/id1227912811?mt=8
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SA news article has plenty first time gun buyers going through the process, majority women buying small caliber handguns. Paying upfront for safety class + handgun that they wont be able to take home for weeks after. crazy. So in about 2 weeks, HPD is going to have a deluge of first timers registering handguns
to each his own, but idk if I'd pick an AR as a first gun for defense during a crisis. If things go haywire with any type of major disaster, you're better off with a concealable pistol to protect yourself in and out of your house.
It's probably because a long gun permit is easier than a handgun. Great logic by the anti 2a dems. Let's make the one of the 3 (handgun, rifle, shotty) deadliest easier to buy.
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As Fox News reported, for nearly 20 minutes, Gov. Ige failed to notify the public that the errant public warning was a misfire because he forgot his Twitter password.
Ige reportedly knew the warning was an accidental false alarm within two minutes of it being sent. "Here's a state governor who thinks he can only communicate by Twitter," Gutfeld said. "Is this state run by teenagers?" "No," he added. "It's run by Democrats, who are basically teenagers with power." Gutfeld said Ige didn't need a Twitter password to call a press conference or notify the public by other means. He called the overwhelmingly Democratic Hawaiian government "amateur hour," saying they have a hard time "logging onto Twitter - and reality." Gutfeld said Ige and other Democrats should think twice before criticizing President Donald Trump's Twitter usage because "at least he knows how [to tweet]."
http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/01/23/hawaii-missile-false-alarm-gutfeld-governor-david-ige-twitter-excuse (http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/01/23/hawaii-missile-false-alarm-gutfeld-governor-david-ige-twitter-excuse)
ribbit....ribbit....ribbit
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Saw this today.
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As Fox News reported, for nearly 20 minutes, Gov. Ige failed to notify the public that the errant public warning was a misfire because he forgot his Twitter password.
Ige reportedly knew the warning was an accidental false alarm within two minutes of it being sent. "Here's a state governor who thinks he can only communicate by Twitter," Gutfeld said. "Is this state run by teenagers?" "No," he added. "It's run by Democrats, who are basically teenagers with power." Gutfeld said Ige didn't need a Twitter password to call a press conference or notify the public by other means. He called the overwhelmingly Democratic Hawaiian government "amateur hour," saying they have a hard time "logging onto Twitter - and reality." Gutfeld said Ige and other Democrats should think twice before criticizing President Donald Trump's Twitter usage because "at least he knows how [to tweet]."
http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/01/23/hawaii-missile-false-alarm-gutfeld-governor-david-ige-twitter-excuse (http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/01/23/hawaii-missile-false-alarm-gutfeld-governor-david-ige-twitter-excuse)
ribbit....ribbit....ribbit
It wasn't just Twitter. It was also the commercial cell phone and regular phone service providers. Everyone in the state was clogging up the systems, and the Governor could not get through to the EMA office to coordinate their response.
When the people in charge are just as unable to communicate as people calling their friends and family, the state is experiencing a high degree of negligence and incompetence. Most people know the federal government and military rely on dedicated comms systems for critical functions, but our government wants to pretend a regular cell phone is okay. Hard to believe the people in charge of our emergency preparedness are former military generals. What were they on active duty, lawyers? Doctors? Food service? :crazy:
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Hard to believe the people in charge of our emergency preparedness are former military generals. What were they on active duty, lawyers? Doctors? Food service? :crazy:
Latrine maintenance detail? No, I don't really know, but several people here have assured us that based upon their personal acquaintance, these "are the people you want in charge".
And of course the guy they put in charge of the military "investigation" will be "investigating" his direct superior officer. Gee, I wonder how that will turn out?
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Saw this today.
photo is kinda fuzzy, can you provide a caption? please? we need more local laughs.
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Hard to believe the people in charge of our emergency preparedness are former military generals. What were they on active duty, lawyers? Doctors? Food service? :crazy:
I totally agree with you.
However, the recent findings of incompetence at the civilian level should not be a surprise at all. Other than being a geographically strategic location to place military assets, the other main reason Washington DC decided to militarize Hawaii was to keep the continental US safe as much as possible from invasion or nuclear attack. Everyone in Hawaii who lived through the Cold War knew that.
Hence, if anything catastrophic happened to Hawaii, the US would use that event as a sigh of relief that it was Hawaii and not somewhere in the mainland, as well as a further rallying cry to continue any of its imperial foreign escapades.
The bottom line is the people of Hawaii are and has always been written off as collateral damage, furthered evidenced by the recent uncovering of incompetency of its own civil defense agencies, which you would think would have learned a thing or too having survived the would-be guaranteed destruction of the Cold War.
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Can’t believe he admitted the Twitter thing. If it’s true (no reason to doubt), that’s one thing. But if that’s is way of trying to accept or otherwise direct the blame onto himself, ???
And I always thought he was more of a Fozzie Bear.
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Can’t believe he admitted the Twitter thing. If it’s true (no reason to doubt), that’s one thing. But if that’s is way of trying to accept or otherwise direct the blame onto himself, ???
And I always thought he was more of a Fozzie Bear.
Since there are at least two independent investigations going on right now, he might be trying to get out in front of the reports by releasing embarrassing information early.
Who really knows what these officials are thinking? They don't seem to follow logic or reasoning that most of us would expect.
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I totally agree with you.
However, the recent findings of incompetence at the civilian level should not be a surprise at all. Other than being a geographically strategic location to place military assets, the other main reason Washington DC decided to militarize Hawaii was to keep the continental US safe as much as possible from invasion or nuclear attack. Everyone in Hawaii who lived through the Cold War knew that.
Hence, if anything catastrophic happened to Hawaii, the US would use that event as a sigh of relief that it was Hawaii and not somewhere in the mainland, as well as a further rallying cry to continue any of its imperial foreign escapades.
The bottom line is the people of Hawaii are and has always been written off as collateral damage, furthered evidenced by the recent uncovering of incompetency of its own civil defense agencies, which you would think would have learned a thing or too having survived the would-be guaranteed destruction of the Cold War.
Your anti-military rhetoric is getting old.
Meanwhile other countries i.e. Russia and China would love to get a foot hold in as much places as the US. In fact, China builds their own islands with no care what so ever. It's all part of their long term strategic plan.
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photo is kinda fuzzy, can you provide a caption? please? we need more local laughs.
Sorry about that.
From memory it said "We don't have false alarms, but we do have tanks to go with your BBQ grill." Or something to that effect.
Obviously a play on the missle warning false alarm.
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Sorry about that.
From memory it said "We don't have false alarms, but we do have tanks to go with your BBQ grill." Or something to that effect.
Obviously a play on the missle warning false alarm.
My old office was a block away from that place. I always got a laugh from his signs.
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Since there are at least two independent investigations going on right now, he might be trying to get out in front of the reports by releasing embarrassing information early.
Who really knows what these officials are thinking? They don't seem to follow logic or reasoning that most of us would expect.
I guess that could be one angle. But still. I mean there’s being honest, but damn.
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My old office was a block away from that place. I always got a laugh from his signs.
I drive by that place a couple times a week. Sometimes they really crack me up. I just liked this one for the play on the missle alert fiasco.
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Everyone in Hawaii who lived through the Cold War knew that.
just like everyone knew about the missile silos here during the cold war?
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just like everyone knew about the missile silos here during the cold war?
weren't they called submarines?
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I drive by that place a couple times a week. Sometimes they really crack me up. I just liked this one for the play on the missle alert fiasco.
The underhanded ones that are seemingly directed at his wife (or GF) crack me up.
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just like everyone knew about the missile silos here during the cold war?
All through the Cold War, did you for once believe that the plannners in Washington DC were not aware that the size of the military footprint in Hawaii made it one of the major targets for invasion and/or destruction?
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All through the Cold War, did you for once believe that the plannners in Washington DC were not aware that the size of the military footprint in Hawaii made it one of the major targets for invasion and/or destruction?
I object. That answer is non-responsive and lacks proper foundation.
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All through the Cold War, did you for once believe that the plannners in Washington DC were not aware that the size of the military footprint in Hawaii made it one of the major targets for invasion and/or destruction?
that's a far different statement than "Other than being a geographically strategic location to place military assets, the other main reason Washington DC decided to militarize Hawaii was to keep the continental US safe as much as possible from invasion or nuclear attack. Everyone in Hawaii who lived through the Cold War knew that."
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I object. That answer is non-responsive and lacks proper foundation.
I totally agree!
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What did I write in my statement that bothers you?
"Other than being a geographically strategic location to place military assets...
I do not think there is anything questionable here.
"...the other main reason Washington DC decided to militarize Hawaii was to keep the continental US safe as much as possible from invasion or nuclear attack."
Was it not the fear of using Hawaii as a potential staging point of an invasion of North America or a great staging point for the US to persecute a war in Asia (e.g., the Spanish American War in Philippines) two of the different reasons Hawaii was Illegally annexed in 1898?
Furthermore, with Washington DC placing nuclear weapons in the silos of nuclear submarines at Pearl Harbor, as stated by Ren, does this decision not infer that they wanted those WMDs in Hawaii to spare the continental US the potential risks of being targeted directly?
Everyone in Hawaii who lived through the Cold War knew that."
Maybe this might have been an overstatement, as clearly there are many sheeple in Hawaii.
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I totally agree!
I am glad we all agree that your answer is non-responsive and lacks proper foundation.
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Sorry about that.
From memory it said "We don't have false alarms, but we do have tanks to go with your BBQ grill." Or something to that effect.
Obviously a play on the missle warning false alarm.
Drove by there on the way home today. You forgot the “Korean” in front of the BBQ. That made it even more funny.
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you asked me "did you for once believe?"
whereas in the other you stated "Everyone in Hawaii who lived through the Cold War knew that."
those are two totally different things
you asking me what I believe is NOT the same as stating everyone knew something
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and the fact that there are nuclear weapons in the silos of subs DOES NOT infer that they were placed there to spare the continental US the potential risks of being targeted directly
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Drove by there on the way home today. You forgot the “Korean” in front of the BBQ. That made it even more funny.
so, piecing it together:
"WE DON'T HAVE FALSE ALARMS
BUT WE CAN RENT YOU A
TANK WITH A KOREAN BBQ GRILL"
that's pretty good, I hope the guv'ner drives past there at least once, maybe daily? that would be good, rub some salt into the wound. yeah, but you can't fix stupid.
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and you still have not proven or withdrawn your statement that there were ballistic missile silos on Hawaiian soil during the cold war
(other than a copy of "mother goose" or something like that from long ago)
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so, piecing it together:
"WE DON'T HAVE FALSE ALARMS
BUT WE CAN RENT YOU A
TANK WITH A KOREAN BBQ GRILL"
that's pretty good, I hope the guv'ner drives past there at least once, maybe daily? that would be good, rub some salt into the wound. yeah, but you can't fix stupid.
I think that’s what it said. I just recall the Korean part and that definitely made a difference in the message. Made me laugh, that’s for sure.
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and the fact that there are nuclear weapons in the silos of subs DOES NOT infer that they were placed there to spare the continental US the potential risks of being targeted directly
How does is not infer? Having nuclear weapons already makes where they are located a target.
Do you disagree with that premise?
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and you still have not proven or withdrawn your statement that there were ballistic missile silos on Hawaiian soil during the cold war
(other than a copy of "mother goose" or something like that from long ago)
As I recall from that thread, it appeared that no one could confirm or deny the exisitence of nuclear silos based on Hawaii's soil during the Cold War.
For myself, I had to accept it as it is.
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Latrine maintenance detail? No, I don't really know, but several people here have assured us that based upon their personal acquaintance, these "are the people you want in charge".
And of course the guy they put in charge of the military "investigation" will be "investigating" his direct superior officer. Gee, I wonder how that will turn out?
=========
Yeah I know you don't believe me. I don't blame you.
But consider this for a moment....
If the real s--t hits the fan which would you prefer to be in charge?
A guy who is known by many in our gun club?
Or a some unknown bureaucrat appointed by politicians?
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How does is not infer? Having nuclear weapons already makes where they are located a target.
Do you disagree with that premise?
so tell me why would anyone put nukes on a sub?
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so tell me why would anyone put nukes on a sub?
Trick question?
So they can be launched closer to their intended target?
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Trick question?
So they can be launched closer to their intended target?
Marco Polo!
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=========
Yeah I know you don't believe me. I don't blame you.
But consider this for a moment....
If the real s--t hits the fan which would you prefer to be in charge?
A guy who is known by many in our gun club?
Or a some unknown bureaucrat appointed by politicians?
Yeah, sure.
My first Air Force supervisor was trained on small arms in his Guard unit by Pat Sherrill.
Pat's day job was at the Edmund, OK, Post Office.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmond_post_office_shooting
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How does is not infer? Having nuclear weapons already makes where they are located a target.
Do you disagree with that premise?
I do not disagree with that premise
that is not what you said, i have quoted you several times
you said, "they were placed there to spare the continental US the potential risks of being targeted directly"
i answered your question, you have yet to ever answer any of mine
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I do not disagree with that premise
that is not what you said, i have quoted you several times
you said, "they were placed there to spare the continental US the potential risks of being targeted directly"
i answered your question, you have yet to ever answer any of mine
so these multi million dollar subs were purposely placed here as a diversionary target?! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Marco....
POLO! biatchez! Boom!
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Your anti-military rhetoric is getting old.
Having a large military footprint in Hawaii, which potentially results in a nuclear strike that could kill every man, woman, and child in Hawaii is what is getting OLD!
Meanwhile other countries i.e. Russia and China would love to get a foot hold in as much places as the US. In fact, China builds their own islands with no care what so ever. It's all part of their long term strategic plan.
Although I would not deny the possibility of your position, it is still speculation on your part. Moreover, if China is building islands of their own, then even more so why would they even need Hawaii?
But don't worry, I will not ask you to share your sources as to the insights of the strategic plans of Russian and China.
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There are a couple of specific threads for that topic already.
:stopjack:
Nuke Missile scare, is Hawaii a NK-KJU target because of US military presence?
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=30027.0
making a new topic because this could be under "trump" or "nuclear missile"
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=30023.0
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Having a large military footprint in Hawaii, which potentially results in a nuclear strike that could kill every man, woman, and child in Hawaii is what is getting OLD!
Although I would not deny the possibility of your position, it is still speculation on your part. Moreover, if China is building islands of their own, then even more so why would they even need Hawaii?
But don't worry, I will not ask you to share your sources as to the insights of the strategic plans of Russian and China.
(https://s3.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20170330&t=2&i=1178656459&r=LYNXMPED2T0QO&w=1280)
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As I recall from that thread, it appeared that no one could confirm or deny the exisitence of nuclear silos based on Hawaii's soil during the Cold War.
For myself, I had to accept it as it is.
you made the claim, and tried to back it up with some dubious "journal" that looked like it was mimeographed
why should we have to confirm or deny your claim?
and you never answered the question where they were located, nor did you answer how they would build those types of underground structures in volcanic soil, nor did you answer where they have that much area that was totally off-limits to the public for miles as they would be if they were a missile site
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There are a couple of specific threads for that topic already.
:stopjack:
Nuke Missile scare, is Hawaii a NK-KJU target because of US military presence?
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=30027.0
That horse and this horse is beaten to death and is the death of this forum. Generalizations. Anti US bias.
More traffic is generated over topics like this than shooting and 2A rights.
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so these multi million dollar subs were purposely placed here as a diversionary target?! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Marco....
POLO! biatchez! Boom!
Hawaii is the headquarters of the US Pacific Submarine Fleet.
Although civilians may not know whether what nuclear subs are in port, I am confident that all other nuclear armed nations have a better idea than we do. Hence, that alone makes Hawaii a tempting target.
What is so trivial about that?
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Although I would not deny the possibility of your position, it is still speculation on your part.
yet you speculate all the time, and state it as fact
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you made the claim, and tried to back it up with some dubious "journal" that looked like it was mimeographed
why should we have to confirm or deny your claim?
and you never answered the question where they were located, nor did you answer how they would build those types of underground structures in volcanic soil, nor did you answer where they have that much area that was totally off-limits to the public for miles as they would be if they were a missile site
I think it was Team America or an old Godzilla where they had bases in a volcano....um yeah...so much for protesting TMT. We got a military base in a Hawaiian volcano!
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That horse and this horse is beaten to death and is the death of this forum. Generalizations. Anti US bias.
More traffic is generated over topics like this than shooting and 2A rights.
Since EEF drug me through Thread Jack hell over and over, I feel I've earned the right to gently remind others they are doing it, too. :rofl:
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you made the claim, and tried to back it up with some dubious "journal" that looked like it was mimeographed
why should we have to confirm or deny your claim?
Then don't loose sleep over it.
and you never answered the question where they were located, nor did you answer how they would build those types of underground structures in volcanic soil, nor did you answer where they have that much area that was totally off-limits to the public for miles as they would be if they were a missile site
Once again, not enough evidence to confirm or deny this.
Let it go.
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Hawaii is the headquarters of the US Pacific Submarine Fleet.
Although civilians may not know whether what nuclear subs are in port, I am confident that all other nuclear armed nations have a better idea than we do. Hence, that alone makes Hawaii a tempting target.
What is so trivial about that?
So can a ballistic missile sub fire a missile in port?
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Then don't loose sleep over it.
Once again, not enough evidence to confirm or deny this.
Let it go.
so you speculated?!
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yet you speculate all the time, and state it as fact
If you feel I am guilty of this, make sure you police all others posters too.
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So can a ballistic missile sub fire a missile in port?
I don't know, do you?
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Generalizations. Anti US bias.
Look whose talking about generalizations.
Just beacuse I exercise my First amendment right that does not agree with your fanatical love for the presence of the US military here in Hawaii, you generalize that it is anti-US.
Did I hurt your feelings?
Should I be more politically correct when discussing issues about the US military presence in Hawaii?
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Let it go.
so I have to let it go, but you do not?
wow
thanks for further confirmation
i'm done for now
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(https://s3.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20170330&t=2&i=1178656459&r=LYNXMPED2T0QO&w=1280)
Playing Macsak for a moment, you provided a picture of Chinese island building which I never doubted, but how do you know that Russia and China have plans to invade Hawaii as you stated in your post?
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Playing Macsak for a moment, you provided a picture of Chinese island building which I never doubted, but how do you know that Russia and China have plans to invade Hawaii as you stated in your post?
I didn't state that Russia and China were to invade Hawaii. I stated that they'd like to have a global presence as the US does - with a combatant command in almost every continent. Besides you're talking to a Chinese investor - like it or not we already here! We didn't need to invade we assimilated! We bought your lands
On another note - Do you own guns? Believe in the 2A?
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Holy fkn sht! :stopjack:
(http://www.avsforum.com/photopost/data/2239080/d/d6/d6255859_32238-Beating-Dead-Horse-gif-7zfM.gif)
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And here I was, thinking it couldn't get any more absurd...
http://thegatewaypundit.com/2018/01/mystery-employee-sent-false-hawaii-missile-alert-suddenly-refuses-cooperate-investigation/
Mystery Employee Behind False Hawaii Missile Alert Suddenly Refuses To Cooperate With Investigation
ABC News reports:
The Hawaii Emergency Management Agency employee who mistakenly sent out a mobile alert warning of an incoming ballistic missile is refusing to cooperate with the Federal Communications Commission investigation, an FCC official said Thursday on Capitol Hill.
At a hearing with the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation, Lisa Fowlkes, the head of the Public Safety and Homeland Security Bureau at the FCC, said the federal agency is pleased with the cooperation from leadership in Hawaii, but disappointed in the refusal from the key employee.
“We share FCC Public Safety Bureau Chief Lisa Fowlkes’s disappointment,” Hawaii Emergency Management said in a statement to Congress.
“The Hawaii Emergency Management Agency has encouraged its employees to cooperate in all ongoing investigations. While cooperation is in the end a matter of choice for each individual, we hope that anyone who is not cooperating will reconsider and assist in bringing these matters to a satisfactory conclusion.”
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And here I was, thinking it couldn't get any more absurd...
http://thegatewaypundit.com/2018/01/mystery-employee-sent-false-hawaii-missile-alert-suddenly-refuses-cooperate-investigation/
Mystery Employee Behind False Hawaii Missile Alert Suddenly Refuses To Cooperate With Investigation
ABC News reports:
The Hawaii Emergency Management Agency employee who mistakenly sent out a mobile alert warning of an incoming ballistic missile is refusing to cooperate with the Federal Communications Commission investigation, an FCC official said Thursday on Capitol Hill.
At a hearing with the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation, Lisa Fowlkes, the head of the Public Safety and Homeland Security Bureau at the FCC, said the federal agency is pleased with the cooperation from leadership in Hawaii, but disappointed in the refusal from the key employee.
“We share FCC Public Safety Bureau Chief Lisa Fowlkes’s disappointment,” Hawaii Emergency Management said in a statement to Congress.
“The Hawaii Emergency Management Agency has encouraged its employees to cooperate in all ongoing investigations. While cooperation is in the end a matter of choice for each individual, we hope that anyone who is not cooperating will reconsider and assist in bringing these matters to a satisfactory conclusion.”
Dammit, just when my conspiracy theory went away, now it starts up again...
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And here I was, thinking it couldn't get any more absurd...
http://thegatewaypundit.com/2018/01/mystery-employee-sent-false-hawaii-missile-alert-suddenly-refuses-cooperate-investigation/
Mystery Employee Behind False Hawaii Missile Alert Suddenly Refuses To Cooperate With Investigation
ABC News reports:
The Hawaii Emergency Management Agency employee who mistakenly sent out a mobile alert warning of an incoming ballistic missile is refusing to cooperate with the Federal Communications Commission investigation, an FCC official said Thursday on Capitol Hill.
At a hearing with the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation, Lisa Fowlkes, the head of the Public Safety and Homeland Security Bureau at the FCC, said the federal agency is pleased with the cooperation from leadership in Hawaii, but disappointed in the refusal from the key employee.
“We share FCC Public Safety Bureau Chief Lisa Fowlkes’s disappointment,” Hawaii Emergency Management said in a statement to Congress.
“The Hawaii Emergency Management Agency has encouraged its employees to cooperate in all ongoing investigations. While cooperation is in the end a matter of choice for each individual, we hope that anyone who is not cooperating will reconsider and assist in bringing these matters to a satisfactory conclusion.”
That should be grounds for immediate termination.
Of course, this won't happen since the union won't allow it.
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he probably lawyered up, and is pleading The Fifth. as mentioned, probably, as being advised by The All-Powerful Union. Just gotta make sure this Contempt case isn't assigned to Mueller, for whom all roads lead to Trump.
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That should be grounds for immediate termination.
Of course, this won't happen since the union won't allow it.
IMO he/she is shooting themselves in the foot with refusing to cooperate. Any chance they'd have to be retained after this incident is pretty much gone now. As an employee, if you refuse to cooperate with an internal/external investigation, you can be terminated for cause.
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IMO he/she is shooting themselves in the foot with refusing to cooperate. Any chance they'd have to be retained after this incident is pretty much gone now. As an employee, if you refuse to cooperate with an internal/external investigation, you can be terminated for cause.
maybe in another state but not in Hawaii
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He probably is cooperating. Just keeps saying "I am Groot."
I need to interject with a little levity:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qjpG-0Qg0s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qjpG-0Qg0s)
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Dammit, just when my conspiracy theory went away, now it starts up again...
Have you seen the theories floating around.
Crazy stuff
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next thing you know they wont be able to find this person in question.
'
apparently he/she hasn't been back to work since the accident happened. That's almost 3 weeks of sick leave taken i wished i worked for the state and had that much free time to just take off. Also maybe hes talking with a lawyer since he has death threats and all this against him/her he could actually sue the state right? the State shouldnt have pinned it on one person to begin with i think.
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next thing you know they wont be able to find this person in question.
'
apparently he/she hasn't been back to work since the accident happened. That's almost 3 weeks of sick leave taken i wished i worked for the state and had that much free time to just take off. Also maybe hes talking with a lawyer since he has death threats and all this against him/her he could actually sue the state right? the State shouldnt have pinned it on one person to begin with i think.
Gov't jobs normally require some documentation for use of sick leave. One or two days, normal sickness/injury. Three to five days requires a doctor's note saying what the problem is, and how long before the employee can return to work.
At 2 weeks, short term disability should kick in. The employee normally uses vacation or sick leave for the first 7 days, then SDI pays after that to preserve the employee's regular leave.
So, 3 weeks without contact on sick leave? They have ways to stop that behavior. They also have to submit timecards and have them approved on multiple levels to get paid. if his timecard can't be approved without doctor's inputs, maybe he'll come in when the paycheck is late? :rofl:
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The worker and #sethrich might end up meeting...
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https://buff.ly/2nd8QfD
HNN article on the person who was responsible for the false alarm no cooperating. Nothing new, but dayum the conspiracy theories and comments... wow
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and just to correct my previous assumption, it turns out the employee is non-union.
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and just to correct my previous assumption, it turns out the employee is non-union.
The story said "unidentified exempt union employee ". Is that what you thought means "non-union?"
"Exempt" is a pay status. It means he was on salary, and "exempt" from the rules governing overtime for non-exempt hourly-paid employees.
Based on my experience, it says he's a "salaried union employee."
If I'm right, then you just thought you were wrong, but you were mistaken. :rofl:
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I think you're right, but I'm pretty sure there was an earlier article, can't find it now, either Fox, CNN, KHON, or HNN, that did explicitly use the words "non-union", but they've probably been edumacated on the nuances of govt-ese salary-grade-speak, which you described in pretty good detail.
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they're confused. he's a hgea member
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they're confused. he's a hgea member
This is another example where you have to know your audience. Either the reporter didn't know and didn't care enough to ask, or they decided the readers can conclude whatever they want about the meaning of "exempt union employee".
Maybe we need the reporters to use common language to ensure the facts are accurate in the readers' minds? But, that would require actual journalism and fact-based reporting.
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per Fox News (also HNN): "Hawaii employee who issued false missile alert thought it was real emergency, FCC says.
"The Hawaii employee who issued a ballistic missile alert to residents — causing mass panic for nearly 40 minutes earlier this month — intentionally sent the message thinking the island was being attacked, the FCC said Tuesday in a stunning reversal after officials had insisted the alert was the result of a mistaken keystroke.
"In a written statement, the employee, who was not identified, said he believed there was a real emergency on Jan. 13 after hearing a recording that stated “THIS IS NOT A DRILL.” But the employee did not hear the first half of the message that stated “EXERCISE, EXERCISE, EXERCISE,” the FCC said in its preliminary report Tuesday. Though the recording also ended with the "EXERCISE" message, the officer did not hear it."
this is almost becoming impossible to believe, all the twists n turns in this saga. Seriously! I guess he wasn't paying attention, missed the first half of the message? Really? is this a version of Attention Deficit Disorder? this is indeed incredulous. did Fox News accidentally read the script from the upcoming SNL programming?
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/01/30/hawaii-employee-who-issued-false-missile-alert-thought-it-was-real-emergency-fcc-says.html (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/01/30/hawaii-employee-who-issued-false-missile-alert-thought-it-was-real-emergency-fcc-says.html)
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/37384196/fcc-employee-who-sent-false-missile-alert-believed-threat-was-real (http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/37384196/fcc-employee-who-sent-false-missile-alert-believed-threat-was-real)
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HI-EMA’s Miyagi resigns, ‘button pusher’ fired in aftermath of false missile alert.
"According to Oliveira’s report, the employee has been a source of concern for over 10 years because of poor performance and had been counseled."
http://www.staradvertiser.com/2018/01/29/breaking-news/ige-to-announce-results-of-false-missile-alert-investigation/
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Does HI_EMA have random drug tests? Does the employee have a medical marijuana card?
Enquiring minds ... :geekdanc:
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http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/01/30/hawaii-worker-who-sent-false-missile-attack-alert-is-fired-emergency-management-leader-resigns.html
Hawaii worker who sent false missile-attack alert is fired; emergency management leader resigns
Excerpt:
The head of Hawaii's Emergency Management Agency has resigned and the employee who issued a ballistic missile alert to residents -- causing mass panic for nearly 40 minutes earlier this month -- has been terminated, officials said Tuesday.
The announcement came during a news conference Tuesday by Gov. David Ige, State Adjunct General Maj. Gen. Joe Logan and investigating officer Brig. Gen. Bruce Oliveira.
It was reported earlier Tuesday that the employee intentionally sent the message thinking the island was being attacked, the FCC said in a stunning reversal after officials had insisted the alert was the result of a mistaken keystroke.
Note: Duplicating info above as I was reading stuff when that got posted... another source anyway.
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HI-EMA’s Miyagi resigns, ‘button pusher’ fired in aftermath of false missile alert.
"According to Oliveira’s report, the employee has been a source of concern for over 10 years because of poor performance and had been counseled."
http://www.staradvertiser.com/2018/01/29/breaking-news/ige-to-announce-results-of-false-missile-alert-investigation/
10 years of poor performance, and a false alert on a fire and a tsunami, and he only got "counseled"?
no wonder this happened...
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"According to the FCC findings presented in Washington today, a shift supervisor initiated a drill of the missile alert system by pretending to be U.S. Pacific Command and played a recorded message over the phone."
can you imagine the mischief and mayhem that could be caused if some prankster got ahold of this phone number and played a selected recorded message...? O.M.G. WTF! it can't be that simple?
they had better upgrade that phone to a secure telephone unit with end-to-end, military-grade, missile-silo-type authentication.
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"According to the FCC findings presented in Washington today, a shift supervisor initiated a drill of the missile alert system by pretending to be U.S. Pacific Command and played a recorded message over the phone."
can you imagine the mischief and mayhem that could be caused if some prankster got ahold of this phone number and played a selected recorded message...? O.M.G. WTF! it can't be that simple?
they had better upgrade that phone to a secure telephone unit with end-to-end, military-grade, missile-silo-type authentication.
Or use nuclear sub launch code drill cards (XMSWYS and have a 2nd in command repeat the authorization)
Imagine if FCC never get involved, would the guy have been fired?
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On the bright side, Vern will have more time to come out to our club shooting matches.
:shaka:
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Or use nuclear sub launch code drill cards (XMSWYS and have a 2nd in command repeat the authorization)
Imagine if FCC never get involved, would the guy have been fired?
I heard a lot of other states require a supervisor to okay the release. Basically two factor authentication like you mention. Pretty sad no one thought about this considering the implications.
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
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Amazing.
If this is the kind of retard they put in charge of the missile defense warning, just think how bad the rest must be.
No wonder nothing ever gets done correctly. SMFH
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some notes:
hi ema does operate on a shoestring budget. Been asking the leg for years for more funds to improve things like their software, better equipment, etc - always denied. So in actuality, whos fault is it that they dont have the funds necessary to buy, develop, or contract out a competent software, paving the way for such an incident to occur? So if it ends up that they're finally allocated some money to better equip hawaii for natural disasters, that's probably a good thing. Better preparations for ballistic missile will positively affect readiness in all areas.
Leadership is lacking all around... "someone", whether it be the administrator, #2, #3, #4 in command, the governor, a senator, ANYONE should have issued the order to send a correction text immediately, regulations or perceived regulations be damned. Whatever method was used to communicate the alert should be cancelled using that method immediately, that is common sense. If they immediately issued a correcting text, this would be a much smaller incident. Maybe FEMA would have slapped the back of hi ema's wrists and said "bad boy you didn't follow regulations", but who fucking cares? All these idiots are doing is covering their own asses and grandstanding because its an election year. Look for a lot more fingerpointing and other BS to come. BUT this is hawaii, and incompetence and stupidity is the status quo.
“HI-EMA is like any other state agency — underresourced and working within a system that often cannot achieve excellence,” Clairmont posted on Facebook while the news conference about the state’s internal investigation was being livestreamed. “When the matter involves emergency management, the public expects and deserves more. The agency needs the resources and talent in line with what is being asked of it — that has never happened. The best HI-EMA can do right now from their perspective is to play the blame game. Shortsighted at best.”
Toby Clairmont, HI-EMA executive officer
Having been inside HI-EMA and used their systems before, I agree with his assessment. However, it is up to management to make the best policies using the resources they have available, and handle issues with personnel . They don't even have the excuse of union employees because he's exempt. The poor performer was on a yearly contract, and essentially "at-will".
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Now there’s a bill in the mix that would require a business owner AND a homeowner to provide shelter. The Lopresti guy who proposed the bill acknowledges that his intent wasn’t to require a homeowner to provide shelter to a stranger and that the bill needs to be reworded. Another danger of common sense legislation...
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Now there’s a bill in the mix that would require a business owner AND a homeowner to provide shelter. The Lopresti guy who proposed the bill acknowledges that his intent wasn’t to require a homeowner to provide shelter to a stranger and that the bill needs to be reworded. Another danger of common sense legislation...
Now that is govt. overreach. In an emergency situation, we are all in survival mode. I have to provide security and subsistence to my family - not strangers.
The govt. can't dictate who I let into my home without a fucking warrant.
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now the worker who was fired is going to sue
http://khon2.com/2018/02/01/emergency-worker-behind-false-missile-alert-to-file-lawsuit-against-the-state/ (http://khon2.com/2018/02/01/emergency-worker-behind-false-missile-alert-to-file-lawsuit-against-the-state/)
So this person's mistake is going to cost us on both ends - an investigation that involves at least two General officers with the State HIRING an outside private investigation firm AND a lawsuit from the worker who caused this whole mess. :crazy: :grrr:
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Now that is govt. overreach. In an emergency situation, we are all in survival mode. I have to provide security and subsistence to my family - not strangers.
The govt. can't dictate who I let into my home without a fucking warrant.
it got amended even before testimony started
they eliminated the homeowner part
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I have to provide security and subsistence to my family - not strangers.
The govt. can't dictate who I let into my home without a fucking warrant.
Just make sure you do not use a firearm to provide security, that is still illegal.
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Just make sure you do not use a firearm to provide security, that is still illegal.
if my Korean Komrades can protect themselves in Cali why can't I?
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-oT6ydjLn5YQ/TklO27D4KiI/AAAAAAAAAUA/csJnK51zawg/s1600/58852252.jpg)
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Now that is govt. overreach. In an emergency situation, we are all in survival mode. I have to provide security and subsistence to my family - not strangers.
The govt. can't dictate who I let into my home without a fucking warrant.
and employees, when they get the alert on their phones that they have 12 minutes before the bombs drop, the employer has to make sure the employees all don't run out to be with their families? they're supposed to continue to man the cash registers, look up prices for customers? clean up the spills in the aisle? check for inventory in the back? etc?
how dafuq is that supposed to work?
OPPOSE in it's entirety.
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and employees, when they get the alert on their phones that they have 12 minutes before the bombs drop, the employer has to make sure the employees all don't run out to be with their families? they're supposed to continue to man the cash registers, look up prices for customers? clean up the spills in the aisle? check for inventory in the back? etc?
how dafuq is that supposed to work?
OPPOSE in it's entirety.
In addition, how are retail stores supposed to accommodate all these people? The workers have families too. To what extent are PRIVATE businesses responsible for the PUBLIC safety? Who's going to pay for it? So what, people were turned away at WalMart. We need to realize that WalMart is NOT in the business of public safety - that's what government is for.
All this is govt. shifting responsibility to the private business. The reality is that WE are responsible for our own preparedness and safety. NO ONE else is. Govt. will do what it can but it is not the ultimate solution.
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if my Korean Komrades can protect themselves in Cali why can't I?
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-oT6ydjLn5YQ/TklO27D4KiI/AAAAAAAAAUA/csJnK51zawg/s1600/58852252.jpg)
Hell yeah, roof top koreans
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
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Now that is govt. overreach. In an emergency situation, we are all in survival mode. I have to provide security and subsistence to my family - not strangers.
The govt. can't dictate who I let into my home without a fucking warrant.
Exactly. There was a quick and strong uproar on this. Hope people remember this kind of idiocy when they vote.
it got amended even before testimony started
they eliminated the homeowner part
Wish we could get that kind of response to opposition to dingbat level gun legislation.
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It's legislators trying to control something beyond their control.
Aka unenforceable laws.
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Employee suing state and retained michael green as attorney. Makes sense why he stopped cooperating. This saga is going to be ongoing and make hawaii look even dumber. lol
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It's legislators trying to control something beyond their control.
Aka unenforceable laws.
It actually needs to be more education based, and less stupid laws that the police and citizens alike ignore.
The entire episode just shows how unprepared hawaii is, unlike other places like probably south korea and japan where the warning time is less, but they don't go into complete societal breakdown when a test or actual launch occurs.
It is more "common sense" that businesses should allow their customers to shelter in place, as they really have nowhere else to go in a short time frame. It doesn't make sense to go home running to your family since there isn't the time for it. The instructions need to be similar as for other unexpected disasters or attacks. If the missile alert goes off, SHELTER IN PLACE. The red cross even has a fact sheet. It's unnecessary to reinvent the wheel or create idiotic feel-good laws, but necessary to educate the population in a meaningful way. Common sense isn't that difficult.
https://www.redcross.org/images/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m4340182_shelterinplace.pdf
How to Shelter-in-Place
At Work:
• Close the business. Bring everyone into the room(s). Shut and lock the door(s).
• If there are customers, clients, or visitors in the building, provide for their safety by asking them to stay – not leave. When
authorities provide directions to shelter-in-place, they want everyone to take those steps now, where they are, and not drive
or walk outdoors.
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"Hawaii missile employee messed up because officials don't care about accountability.
Gene Park, The Washington Post Published 1:11 pm, Thursday, February 1, 2018
This week, we learned the man responsible for the bogus Hawaii missile alert kept his job for a decade even though he had a history of performance problems and has been a "source of concern," according to an Federal Communications Commission report. His co-workers had expressed discomfort about his leadership, and the FCC said he has been "unable to comprehend the situation at hand and has confused real life events and drills on at least two separate occasions." Although the emergency management supervisor, who remains unnamed, was a union member, he could have been fired at will. Instead, he was promoted to a leadership role. "Why," Gizmodo understandably wondered, "was the employee in a position to send a false missile alarm to a couple million people?"
As we say in the islands, e komo mai (welcome) to Hawaii.
I worked as a Hawaii state employee for a short time, serving as spokesman for a division of the Hawaii Commerce Department, and then spent more than seven years dealing with the government as a journalist. Anyone who knows how Honolulu functions cannot have been surprised by this week's revelations. The sad part is the worker's incompetence and the chaos he caused have exposed to the world ugly, old tropes about Hawaiian accountability and competence about the state residents would love nothing more than to shake off. "How many more noneffective employees are on the job here in Hawaii?" asked a local on Hawaii News Now's Facebook page.
There is a strong assumption in the islands that once you enter the state government system, you are set for life. There are great retirement benefits, union protections and the ability to move up, and laterally, across departments. (According to figures drawn from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, Hawaii has the second-highest rate of union membership - more than 20 percent - after New York.) The prevailing assumption is: You do not have to work that hard.
And there is no cost for messing up. Vern Miyagi, the emergency management chief who resigned in the wake of the FCC report Tuesday, made his reluctance to fire the alert author clear: "You gotta know this guy feels bad right? I mean he's not doing this on purpose." I also recall a Honolulu police officer who was fired in 2012 for falsifying reports and lying to investigators, then was hired by the state of Hawaii as a law enforcement officer, only to be convicted last year of raping a teenage girl while in uniform. Even the police chief in Honolulu held onto his job for a year while the feds investigated him for using police resources to frame someone for a personal vendetta.
Meanwhile, the strong local whisper network (coconut wireless, as it is called) has not led to any major #MeToo-style firings, and I doubt it will. It is a small community that dislikes shaming. Despite that his salary is paid by tax dollars, and he led hundreds of thousands to believe they would imminently die, the man behind the phone alert still remains unaccountable to the public.
Another problem is state workers who want to buckle down are saddled with obsolete tech. Hawaii Gov. David Ige said after the alert debacle he did not know his own Twitter password (and apparently neither did his communications staff) - a perfect encapsulation of how behind the state's tech is. It is a government that pays its employees via a financial accounting platform that's 40 years old strung together with parts bought on eBay.
Hawaii desperately wants to diversify its economy beyond tourism and U.S. military spending. Plantation agriculture kept the state afloat for the past century but is now a dead industry. The state wants to "develop foundations for an innovation economy and nurturing emerging industries," according to a government strategy plan. It is hard to see how this episode inspires any confidence for investors and start-up wunderkinds.
When I worked at the Hawaii Department of Commerce and Consumer Affairs in 2013, I remember opening a PDF attachment and closing my eyes for a few minutes while my outdated, state-issued computer opened the file only a few megabytes large. It was a great time to rest before spending two hours out to lunch with the rest of your colleagues - a normal occurrence for state employees.
Culturally, Hawaii tends to reward seniority, not competence. Careers often advance only when incumbent workers resign or die. In 2006, when TIME Magazine called octogenarian Hawaii's Dan Akaka one of the five worst U.S. senators for sponsoring only minor resolutions and bills that died in committee, former U.S. representative Ed Case decided to challenge him in the Democratic primary. A 2006 Star-Bulletin piece surveyed the widespread reaction to this brazen maneuver. Sample comment: "Wait his turn! Has he no respect for his elders?" Case lost by 10 percentage points.
That is a sentiment young people (and apparently 54-year-old members of Congress) hear often in Hawaii. The writer of that 2006 essay rued how "local values" insist on deference and conformity. "If I were first to speak, I'd be called 'pushy.' If my answers were too outrageous, I might be teased," she wrote. "Best to keep silent."
I often heard residents of my old state parrot a Japanese saying: The nail that sticks out gets hammered down. People who want reform, or just to try something new, hear a common refrain in Hawaii's private and public sectors: "That's not how things have been done before." Play your role, and you will be rewarded when you are good and old.
That attitude has consequences. This week's report shows it was no secret the missile alert's author was inept. Yet he somehow landed the critical job of telling an entire state whether they could die of a nuclear blast. While 10 years passed, his supervisors did nothing to remove him from a job they knew he was unqualified for, nor did they implement any procedures on what to do when someone accidentally sends a missile alert. It took a national embarrassment to dislodge him from his job.
A nuclear reality is a new one for Hawaii residents to face, one they are clearly unprepared for. The way things were done before did not suffice, and it appears nobody who could change it stuck out and risked getting hammered down.
In 2018, speed and accountability are life-or-death matters, and Hawaii is not ready. For 10 years and more, it tolerated incompetence. It cannot afford another 10 years of inaction. This is not a drill."
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sorry bout the wall-of-text, thought I'd paste in its entirety, rather than just providing the link. Hawaii became famous (for the wrong reasons). sent to me by somebody in Japan, from a Texas article, the opinion section, no less.
http://www.mysanantonio.com/opinion/article/Hawaii-missile-employee-messed-up-because-12543851.php (http://www.mysanantonio.com/opinion/article/Hawaii-missile-employee-messed-up-because-12543851.php)
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If Hawaii ever gets hit with a nuclear attack, I wish that wherever I am is ground zero. I would rather get vaporized from the initial blast than survive and deal with the aftermath.
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Hell yeah, roof top koreans
Can you imagine the shitstorm that would fall on anyone in Hawaii doing that?
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If Hawaii ever gets hit with a nuclear attack, I wish that wherever I am is ground zero. I would rather get vaporized from the initial blast than survive and deal with the aftermath.
Oahu is ground zero. ain't nothing on the BI to waste a nuke on.
Of course, the NORKs probably have exceedingly cheesy targeting. beyond "Make it go over that way, for long way"
Trade winds will take care of the fallout.
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Oahu is ground zero. ain't nothing on the BI to waste a nuke on.
Of course, the NORKs probably have exceedingly cheesy targeting. beyond "Make it go over that way, for long way"
Trade winds will take care of the fallout.
Drop it on the lava field creating a land slide that would generate a tsunami that will not only take out every island but would devastate the west cost and most of Asia as well.
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Drop it on the lava field creating a land slide that would generate a tsunami that will not only take out every island but would devastate the west cost and most of Asia as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdvUR67nZs0
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from HNN, the wong guy, not the button pusher, but the dude in all the prior pics. seems folks are assuming he's the button pusher, so he's feeling a lot of hate.
"Some of their comments called for Wong to be shot and water-boarded and there were also racially derogatory comments with some people questioning his loyalty to Hawaii and the U.S., he said."
they probably mean shot, followed by water-boarding, and then ask questions about his loyalty to Hawaii, right?
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/37434779/hawaii-man-wants-people-to-know-he-didnt-send-missile-alert (http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/37434779/hawaii-man-wants-people-to-know-he-didnt-send-missile-alert)
one day, some local comedy play script writer will write a play about this whole fiasco, in pidgin, including roles for the governor, and the nonsense senator and representative who blame Trump. This would have been prime material for Lisa Matsumoto, but she died in a car crash a few years back. so sad.
but despite the gravity of this situation, there's so much that is truly laughable in how it played out, unfortunate as that may be. "eh, no waz me brah, waz da adda guy"
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Latest message from our esteemed Governor.... very informative....
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk12F2WQsRA
seems like this video was taken down. too bad, it was really to the point. probably had something to do with re-election?