2aHawaii

General Topics => Legal and Activism => Topic started by: macsak on January 29, 2018, 03:02:02 PM

Title: OPPOSE: SB2436 (Firearms Ammo Voluntary Surrender)
Post by: macsak on January 29, 2018, 03:02:02 PM
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2018/bills/SB2436_.pdf   
SB2436   Firearms; Ammunition; Disqualification; Voluntary Surrender   
RELATING TO FIREARMS.   Shortens the time period for voluntary surrender of firearms and ammunition upon disqualification from ownership, possession, or control from 30 days to an unspecified number of hours.   
Oppose.   NISHIHARA, BAKER, K. RHOADS, Espero, L. Thielen, Wakai   PSM, JDC ->
Testimony here -> https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=SB&billnumber=2436
Title: Re: submit testimony opposing SB2436
Post by: Lihikai on January 29, 2018, 05:45:16 PM
Submitted - only takes a couple of minutes.
Title: Re: submit testimony opposing SB2436
Post by: rklapp on January 29, 2018, 06:24:43 PM
Done.
Title: Re: submit testimony opposing SB2436
Post by: oldfart on January 29, 2018, 09:07:57 PM
Done
Title: Re: submit testimony opposing SB2436
Post by: eyeeatingfish on January 29, 2018, 10:08:40 PM
Done.

I am trying to figure out, is this just a version? Otherwise I think they wouldn't just leave it open ended to say "hours" but I could be wrong.
Title: Re: submit testimony opposing SB2436
Post by: macsak on January 29, 2018, 10:09:46 PM
Done.

I am trying to figure out, is this just a version? Otherwise I think they wouldn't just leave it open ended to say "hours" but I could be wrong.

they'll amend it later
Title: Re: submit testimony opposing SB2436
Post by: 6716J on January 30, 2018, 10:51:32 AM
Done

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: submit testimony opposing SB2436
Post by: Jl808 on February 01, 2018, 05:13:31 PM

S 2/1/2018: The committee(s) on PSM deferred the measure until 02-06-18 1:20PM in conference room 229.   
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2018/bills/SB2436_.pdf   
SB2436   Firearms; Ammunition; Disqualification; Voluntary Surrender   RELATING TO FIREARMS.   
Shortens the time period for voluntary surrender of firearms and ammunition upon disqualification from ownership, possession, or control from 30 days to an unspecified number of hours.   
Oppose.   NISHIHARA, BAKER, K. RHOADS, Espero, L. Thielen, Wakai   PSM, JDC
Title: Re: submit testimony opposing SB2436
Post by: Jl808 on February 07, 2018, 04:06:05 AM
S 2/6/2018: The committee(s) on PSM recommend(s) that the measure be PASSED, WITH AMENDMENTS. The votes in PSM were as follows: 5 Aye(s): Senator(s) Nishihara, Wakai, Baker, Ihara, L. Thielen; Aye(s) with reservations: none ; 0 No(es): none; and 0 Excused: none.   
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2018/bills/SB2436_.pdf   
SB2436   Firearms; Ammunition; Disqualification; Voluntary Surrender   
RELATING TO FIREARMS.   Shortens the time period for voluntary surrender of firearms and ammunition upon disqualification from ownership, possession, or control from 30 days to an unspecified number of hours.   
Oppose.   NISHIHARA, BAKER, K. RHOADS, Espero, L. Thielen, Wakai   PSM, JDC
Title: Re: submit testimony opposing SB2436
Post by: Jl808 on February 09, 2018, 10:37:50 AM
S 2/9/2018: Reported from PSM (Stand. Com. Rep. No. 2165) with recommendation of passage on Second Reading, as amended (SD 1) and referral to JDC.   
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2018/bills/SB2436_SD1_.pdf   
SB2436 SD1   Firearms; Ammunition; Disqualification; Voluntary Surrender   
RELATING TO FIREARMS.   Shortens the time period for voluntary surrender of firearms and ammunition upon disqualification from ownership, possession, or control from 30 days to 24 hours. (SD1)   
Oppose.   NISHIHARA, BAKER, K. RHOADS, Espero, L. Thielen, Wakai   PSM, JDC
Title: Re: OPPOSE: SB2436 (Firearms Ammo Voluntary Surrender)
Post by: Jl808 on February 27, 2018, 01:14:40 PM

S 2/27/2018: The committee(s) on JDC recommend(s) that the measure be PASSED, WITH AMENDMENTS. The votes in JDC were as follows: 5 Aye(s): Senator(s) Taniguchi, K. Rhoads; Aye(s) with reservations: Senator(s) Gabbard, Kim, L. Thielen ; 0 No(es): none; and 0 Excused: none.   
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2018/bills/SB2436_SD1_.pdf   
SB2436 SD1   Firearms; Ammunition; Disqualification; Voluntary Surrender   
RELATING TO FIREARMS.   Shortens the time period for voluntary surrender of firearms and ammunition upon disqualification from ownership, possession, or control from 30 days to 24 hours. (SD1)   
Oppose.   NISHIHARA, BAKER, K. RHOADS, Espero, L. Thielen, Wakai   PSM, JDC
Title: Re: OPPOSE: SB2436 (Firearms Ammo Voluntary Surrender)
Post by: hvybarrels on February 27, 2018, 04:05:25 PM
WTF Gabbard!
Title: Re: OPPOSE: SB2436 (Firearms Ammo Voluntary Surrender)
Post by: punaperson on February 27, 2018, 04:41:27 PM
WTF Gabbard!
2/27/201   The committee(s) on JDC recommend(s) that the measure be PASSED, WITH AMENDMENTS. The votes in JDC were as follows: 5 Aye(s): Senator(s) Taniguchi, K. Rhoads; Aye(s) with reservations: Senator(s) Gabbard, Kim, L. Thielen ; 0 No(es): none; and 0 Excused: none.

Now we have to wait and see what the amended version contains. Anyone know? And even with the amendments at least 3 members voted "aye with reservations", but still "aye".
Title: Re: OPPOSE: SB2436 (Firearms Ammo Voluntary Surrender)
Post by: ren on February 27, 2018, 04:46:38 PM
AYE sus dis kine! :grrr:
Title: Re: OPPOSE: SB2436 (Firearms Ammo Voluntary Surrender)
Post by: macsak on February 27, 2018, 07:22:38 PM
2/27/201   The committee(s) on JDC recommend(s) that the measure be PASSED, WITH AMENDMENTS. The votes in JDC were as follows: 5 Aye(s): Senator(s) Taniguchi, K. Rhoads; Aye(s) with reservations: Senator(s) Gabbard, Kim, L. Thielen ; 0 No(es): none; and 0 Excused: none.

Now we have to wait and see what the amended version contains. Anyone know? And even with the amendments at least 3 members voted "aye with reservations", but still "aye".
from unspecified number of days
to 1 day,
then 48 hours
and now
1 week
Title: Re: OPPOSE: SB2436 (Firearms Ammo Voluntary Surrender)
Post by: punaperson on February 27, 2018, 09:06:11 PM
from unspecified number of days
to 1 day,
then 48 hours
and now
1 week
Are you serious? HD1 was 24 hours. [Read in less-than-genius hillbilly voice]: "They'd have them some real good legislatin' if they got it up to 30 days. That there'd be a good fixin'."  :crazy:

I'd really like to see these clowns "public servants" have a full open public debate on how many rounds is the "correct" maximum number of rounds for a handgun magazine. They'd probably come up with something like they did in New York: 7. I'd love to have seen the "logic" of that debate! (No one knows  anything about that because it was done in an "emergency" midnight session closed to the public, naturally.) Of course a year later they had to amend that because no one makes 7-round mags for nearly any handguns, but they fixed it. You can have a 10 round mag but only legally put 7 rounds into it, which is something I'm sure all criminals obey. You can't make this stuff up!  :crazy:
Title: Re: OPPOSE: SB2436 (Firearms Ammo Voluntary Surrender)
Post by: macsak on February 27, 2018, 09:22:09 PM
Are you serious?

why would I not be serious?
you asked a question
I answered
if you cannot accept my answer, do not ask
Title: Re: OPPOSE: SB2436 (Firearms Ammo Voluntary Surrender)
Post by: hvybarrels on February 28, 2018, 09:12:36 AM
why would I not be serious?
you asked a question
I answered
if you cannot accept my answer, do not ask

For some reason I heard this in *android voice*
Title: Re: OPPOSE: SB2436 (Firearms Ammo Voluntary Surrender)
Post by: punaperson on March 02, 2018, 08:41:27 PM
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2018/bills/SB2436_SD2_.HTM

SB2436 SD2:

SECTION 1.  Section 134-7.3, Hawaii Revised Statutes, is amended by amending subsection (b) to read as follows:

     "(b)  Any person disqualified from ownership, possession, or control of firearms and ammunition under section 134-7, within seven days of disqualification, shall voluntarily surrender all firearms and ammunition to the chief of police where the person resides or dispose of all firearms and ammunition.  If any person fails to voluntarily surrender or dispose of all firearms and ammunition within [thirty] seven days from the date of disqualification, the chief of police may seize all firearms and ammunition."
Title: Re: OPPOSE: SB2436 (Firearms Ammo Voluntary Surrender)
Post by: bass monkey on March 02, 2018, 08:45:14 PM
I wonder if this got any relationship to the kaiser fiasco
Title: Re: OPPOSE: SB2436 (Firearms Ammo Voluntary Surrender)
Post by: Jl808 on March 04, 2018, 09:40:50 AM
S 3/2/2018: 48 Hrs. Notice 03-06-18.   
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2018/bills/SB2436_SD2_.pdf   
SB2436 SD2   Firearms; Ammunition; Disqualification; Voluntary Surrender   
RELATING TO FIREARMS.   Shortens the time period for voluntary surrender of firearms and ammunition upon disqualification from ownership, possession, or control from 30 days to 7 days. Effective 7/1/2050. (SD2)   
Oppose.   NISHIHARA, BAKER, K. RHOADS, Espero, L. Thielen, Wakai   PSM, JDC
Title: Re: OPPOSE: SB2436 (Firearms Ammo Voluntary Surrender)
Post by: punaperson on March 06, 2018, 08:37:34 PM
3/6/2018   S   Passed Third Reading, as amended (SD 2). Ayes, 25; Aye(s) with reservations: Senator(s) Baker, S. Chang, English, Espero, Gabbard, Green, Harimoto, Ihara, Keith-Agaran, Kidani, Kim, Ruderman, L. Thielen, Tokuda . Noes, 0 (none). Excused, 0 (none). Transmitted to House.
3/6/2018   H   Received from Senate (Sen. Com. No. 183) in amended form (SD 2).
Title: Re: OPPOSE: SB2436 (Firearms Ammo Voluntary Surrender)
Post by: Jl808 on March 07, 2018, 09:29:18 AM

3 Anti-2A Bills crossed over yesterday.  HB1908, SB2046, SB2436

H 3/6/2018: Received from Senate (Sen. Com. No. 183) in amended form (SD 2).   
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2018/bills/SB2436_SD2_.pdf   
SB2436 SD2   Firearms; Ammunition; Disqualification; Voluntary Surrender   
RELATING TO FIREARMS.   Shortens the time period for voluntary surrender of firearms and ammunition upon disqualification from ownership, possession, or control from 30 days to 7 days. Effective 7/1/2050. (SD2)   
Oppose.   NISHIHARA, BAKER, K. RHOADS, Espero, L. Thielen, Wakai   PSM, JDC   
Title: Re: OPPOSE: SB2436 (Firearms Ammo Voluntary Surrender)
Post by: Jl808 on March 09, 2018, 04:55:09 PM
H 3/8/2018: Referred to JUD, referral sheet 35   
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2018/bills/SB2436_SD2_.pdf   
SB2436 SD2   Firearms; Ammunition; Disqualification; Voluntary Surrender   
RELATING TO FIREARMS.   Shortens the time period for voluntary surrender of firearms and ammunition upon disqualification from ownership, possession, or control from 30 days to 7 days. Effective 7/1/2050. (SD2)   
Oppose.   NISHIHARA, BAKER, K. RHOADS, Espero, L. Thielen, Wakai   JUD   
Title: Re: OPPOSE: SB2436 (Firearms Ammo Voluntary Surrender)
Post by: rpoL98 on April 02, 2018, 10:53:56 AM
I think something similar in Seattle, which is notorious for anti-2A.  but at least, they're providing some "due process", at first glance.

"Only family, roommates and police can petition the court for the civil order. The burden of proof is on the petitioner. A judge determines if the person is a danger to himself or others. If the order is issued, the guns can be seized immediately, but the gun owner gets to make his or her case in court within two weeks."

I think for Hawaii, it's anybody and their brother can cause you to forfeit your constitutional rights, if you look at them sideways, or something frivolous like that.  I'm not all read-up on that.  and if you have to go through the 2 week waiting period to get your guns back, then that means implicitly the burden of proof is upon you, for restoral of your rights.  it's all effed up.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/04/02/police-legally-seizing-guns-under-red-flag-laws.html (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/04/02/police-legally-seizing-guns-under-red-flag-laws.html)
Title: Re: OPPOSE: SB2436 (Firearms Ammo Voluntary Surrender)
Post by: changemyoil66 on April 02, 2018, 11:30:22 AM
At least Seattle issues CCW's and has open carry. Could be worst, like Hawaii.
Title: Re: OPPOSE: SB2436 (Firearms Ammo Voluntary Surrender)
Post by: zippz on April 02, 2018, 03:40:59 PM
Up for hearing:

Bill scheduled to be heard by JUD on Wednesday, 04-04-18 2:00PM in House conference room 325.

https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=SB&billnumber=2436&year=2018
Title: Re: OPPOSE: SB2436 (Firearms Ammo Voluntary Surrender)
Post by: rklapp on April 02, 2018, 04:36:26 PM
Testimony submitted. I'm up to 13 testimonies this year so far.
Title: Re: OPPOSE: SB2436 (Firearms Ammo Voluntary Surrender)
Post by: groveler on April 02, 2018, 05:52:55 PM
At least Seattle issues CCW's and has open carry. Could be worst, like Hawaii.
I had a CCW for 18 years in WA state. Seattle is where you can get your license,
but the state is the only  legal authority to issue it to you as they are a "shall issue".
The city of Seattle is about as anti-gun as you can find, the CCW line is the same
one for Sex predators to register.
You can open carry, but you will be talking to lots of Cops as they will
accuse you of Brandishing, just because they can and they will.
It doesn't cost them money to go to court, but it costs you.
If the Hunter bill ever passes, I will move my legal residence back to
WA state and get another CCW license.  But live here in Hawaii.


Title: Re: OPPOSE: SB2436 (Firearms Ammo Voluntary Surrender)
Post by: hvybarrels on April 03, 2018, 01:35:49 PM
submitted

Glad I checked this site today!

Just got my HRA membership package which is nice, but they should really be on top of asking people to submit testimony so we don't accidentally miss these windows.
Title: Re: OPPOSE: SB2436 (Firearms Ammo Voluntary Surrender)
Post by: Direjackalope on April 03, 2018, 04:33:13 PM
Submitted. Thanks for the heads up. One of my coworkers had a marijuana card from a serious work injury and he got boned with a confiscation letter. Had this bill been law he would have been screwed. Nobody deserves to be put through that.
Title: Re: OPPOSE: SB2436 (Firearms Ammo Voluntary Surrender)
Post by: punaperson on April 04, 2018, 05:18:51 PM
No announcement yet on the committee vote (I'm betting unanimous AYE).

The testimony (102 pages) was overwhelmingly in support of the bill. I didn't do a count, but I'd guess at least 6 or maybe even 8 to one in support. 90% of those support testimonies were virtually identical "Moms Demand" form letters, though a few of those folks did modify them to one degree or another. Pretty friggin' sad for our side. Testimony burnout, just giving up as useless, or ?

My testimony stressed the absurdity of allowing someone deemed "dangerous" enough to have to confiscate their firearms and then allowing them to be in public and access every other kind of weapon known to mankind, from motor vehicles to gasoline to knives, poisons, etc. I included David Codrea's quote which sums it up:

“Anyone who can’t be trusted with a gun can’t be trusted without a custodian” is a maxim I’ve been using for years because it’s true. Recalling that the three greatest mass murders in U.S. history were reportedly initiated with utility knives, fuel oil and fertilizer, and gasoline and a match, and how many homicides are committed with blunt or sharp objects or even with hands and feet, why would you want to give a “prohibited person” access to those along with the freedom to move among the rest of us?

https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/Session2018/Testimony/SB2436_SD2_TESTIMONY_JUD_04-04-18_.PDF
Title: Re: OPPOSE: SB2436 (Firearms Ammo Voluntary Surrender)
Post by: zippz on April 04, 2018, 05:38:13 PM
Pretty friggin' sad for our side. Testimony burnout, just giving up as useless, or ?

Several other possible reasons:
1.  They don't understand what the bill is about.  We need an illustrated webpage describing the bill, examples, and  its advantages/disadvantages.
2.  Some people may agree with parts of it.
3.  Most of it is because it wasn't advertised..
4.  Many people don't care cause they feel it won't affect them.
Title: Re: OPPOSE: SB2436 (Firearms Ammo Voluntary Surrender)
Post by: rklapp on April 04, 2018, 08:00:13 PM
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/Session2018/Testimony/SB2436_SD2_TESTIMONY_JUD_04-04-18_.PDF
I made the testimony deadline. It's difficult to tell how much more support there is because they didn't organize the testimony by support/oppose. Ironically, Chief Ballard's testimony was marked Late.
Title: Re: OPPOSE: SB2436 (Firearms Ammo Voluntary Surrender)
Post by: punaperson on April 04, 2018, 08:57:30 PM
We won't know what the amendments are until they post the new version of the bill, usually 24 to 72 hours, or if someone calls the chair office and they are willing to tell you over the phone.

What's the point of voting for "Republicans" if they vote in solidarity with the Democrats on this kind of crap?

4/4/2018   H   The committees on JUD recommend that the measure be PASSED, WITH AMENDMENTS. The votes were as follows: 7 Ayes: Representative(s) Nishimoto, San Buenaventura, Brower, Morikawa, Takayama, McDermott, Thielen; Ayes with reservations: none; Noes: none; and 1 Excused: Representative(s) C. Lee.
Title: Re: OPPOSE: SB2436 (Firearms Ammo Voluntary Surrender)
Post by: changemyoil66 on April 05, 2018, 08:57:01 AM
Several other possible reasons:
1.  They don't understand what the bill is about.  We need an illustrated webpage describing the bill, examples, and  its advantages/disadvantages.
2.  Some people may agree with parts of it.
3.  Most of it is because it wasn't advertised..
4.  Many people don't care cause they feel it won't affect them.

I only heard about it because Puna posted about it.  I'm at work and leave 2ahawaii open and refresh every now and then.  I sit behind a desk.  When not at work, I rarely go on as much, maybe like once a day just to check a little.  So I can imagine with only 45 minutes, many people missed it.
Title: Re: OPPOSE: SB2436 (Firearms Ammo Voluntary Surrender)
Post by: hvybarrels on April 05, 2018, 09:00:28 AM

The testimony (102 pages) was overwhelmingly in support of the bill. I didn't do a count, but I'd guess at least 6 or maybe even 8 to one in support. 90% of those support testimonies were virtually identical "Moms Demand" form letters, though a few of those folks did modify them to one degree or another. Pretty friggin' sad for our side. Testimony burnout, just giving up as useless, or ?

https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/Session2018/Testimony/SB2436_SD2_TESTIMONY_JUD_04-04-18_.PDF

Just read through the testimonies. The definitely used a form letter that easily disprovable hyperbolic assertions, but because none of us heard about it we didn't get a chance to respond directly. The whole idea that the 30 days is a "loophole" is completely ridiculous. A loophole would be a policy of letting police who are DQ'ed keep their weapons while everyone else gets theirs confiscated.

Someone needs to take one for the team and register with Moms Demand Action Hawaii and whatever other groups we see popping up in the ledge comments so that we get a heads up on what they are planning. Apparently they invited people to come to the capital to support 2436. Not sure how big the turnout was though. I can't see their whole page because I deleted my Facebook account

https://www.facebook.com/MomsDemandActionHI

From what I can tell due to the lack of local photos it seems like the standard astroturf slacktivism group paid for and administered by out-of-state interests. We should be using their money and resources against them whenever possible. I'm sure if more gun owners read their inflated and disingenuous claims before the deadline then we would get a much better response from our side.
Title: Re: OPPOSE: SB2436 (Firearms Ammo Voluntary Surrender)
Post by: changemyoil66 on April 05, 2018, 09:07:17 AM
Don't forget that they also have a good sounding name.  Like "affordable care act" and such.  We need a good name also like Hawaii fluffy bunny and kitten association.
Title: Re: OPPOSE: SB2436 (Firearms Ammo Voluntary Surrender)
Post by: punaperson on April 05, 2018, 12:28:48 PM
We need a good name also like Hawaii fluffy bunny and kitten association.
Yeah, that'd be a good name, but unfortunately for us it's already been registered by the Democrat Party of Hawaii.