2aHawaii
General Topics => Legal and Activism => Topic started by: Jl808 on February 07, 2018, 04:10:08 AM
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H 2/5/2018: Bill scheduled to be heard by PBS on Thursday, 02-08-18 10:00AM in House conference room 312.
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2018/bills/HB2228_.pdf
HB2228 Firearms; Safety; Voluntary Surrender
RELATING TO PUBLIC SAFETY. Requires individuals who are disqualified from firearms and ammunition ownership or possession to voluntarily surrender their firearms to the chief of police within twenty-four hours of notice of disqualification.
Oppose. TAKAYAMA, CREAGAN, DECOITE, GATES, LOPRESTI PBS, JUD
Testify here -> http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=HB&billnumber=2228
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Done....
Come on folks, step it up.
To me, I see this as a 5th amendment violation.
They are asking you to voluntarily punish yourself.
Even if you didn't do anything wrong.
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testimony posted after 10am will be accepted, but marked LATE
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Done
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Under this bill you would still be "allowed" to lawfully "dispose" of your firearms and ammunition after notification, rather than immediate seizure by cops. They just want to change your time period for doing so from 30 days to 24 hours. That's what they consider "reasonable". What a joke. Why not just eliminate the "dispose" clause altogether and make it immediate seizure upon notification? Since they are virtually eliminating due process, why not actually eliminate it? I mean, that's what they really want to do anyway... :wtf:
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Done
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Points I brought up is
Inability to transfer to another person
Difficulty in transferring to ffl
No time to dispute an erroneous disqualification
Undue hardship getting guns back
Pds will not take care of the firearms.
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Done, before morning coffee, yet. Hope I sounded partly intelligent.
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Done,
Do all bills come up this fast? Or just 2a bills?
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Done,
Do all bills come up this fast? Or just 2a bills?
it varies
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Done, before morning coffee, yet. Hope I sounded partly intelligent.
If it were done after the cup of joe, then your testimony would be: I oppose this gun bill because..oh look, squirrel.
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"Oppose"
Click
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Done
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My testimony, sorry dont have much time to craft something better.
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I oppose HB2228, and submit that the law currently in place is reasonable and sufficient to ensure that firearms aren't in the hands of people who should not possess them.
This bill is a direct violation of 5th amendment rights:
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury.......nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
The current 30 day time limit allows a reasonable amount of time to protest or contest the allegations that one does not meet the qualifications fro gun ownership.
Recently, we've seen a situation where the Honolulu Police Department wanted to confiscate the guns of all medical marijuana users on the grounds that they do not qualify for gun ownership. The gun owners were given 30 days to comply, in which time, the Chief of Police, Susan Ballard reversed positions, and says that the policy is now "under review". If the 24 hour notice was in place, all of these law abiding gun owners would have been required to immediately surrender their firearms. By not allowing a reasonable amount of time for citizens to defend themselves, it constitutes a direct violation of 5th amendment rights. This bill also runs afoul of the 4th amendment, the right to be free from "unreasonable searches and seizures". I consider a 24 hour confiscation period without time for due process to be "unreasonable".
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My testimony, sorry dont have much time to craft something better.
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I oppose HB2228, and submit that the law currently in place is reasonable and sufficient to ensure that firearms aren't in the hands of people who should not possess them.
This bill is a direct violation of 5th amendment rights:
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury.......nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
The current 30 day time limit allows a reasonable amount of time to protest or contest the allegations that one does not meet the qualifications fro gun ownership.
Recently, we've seen a situation where the Honolulu Police Department wanted to confiscate the guns of all medical marijuana users on the grounds that they do not qualify for gun ownership. The gun owners were given 30 days to comply, in which time, the Chief of Police, Susan Ballard reversed positions, and says that the policy is now "under review". If the 24 hour notice was in place, all of these law abiding gun owners would have been required to immediately surrender their firearms. By not allowing a reasonable amount of time for citizens to defend themselves, it constitutes a direct violation of 5th amendment rights. This bill also runs afoul of the 4th amendment, the right to be free from "unreasonable searches and seizures". I consider a 24 hour confiscation period without time for due process to be "unreasonable".
Imagine the line at HPD and those who got in line 1st only to have not to turn in their guns.
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submitted
This is not only for testimony opposed to these stupid ass bills but a litmus test of how much our voices matter to these Ainokea legislators. Make a record of these elitists and vote these snobs out.
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Done.
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Points I brought up is
Inability to transfer to another person
Difficulty in transferring to ffl
No time to dispute an erroneous disqualification
Undue hardship getting guns back
Pds will not take care of the firearms.
I brought up the fiasco with the medical marijuana card holders.
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Just made it under the wire. Glad I check the site this morning!
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I hope that my testimony goes thru. I just posted at 1037a.
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
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I hope that my testimony goes thru. I just posted at 1037a.
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
I posted a little late too
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https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/06/us/baltimore-police-corruption.html
NY Times article about a gun task force assigned to confiscate illegal guns.
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https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/06/us/baltimore-police-corruption.html
NY Times article about a gun task force assigned to confiscate illegal guns.
sounds like a "training day" type of movie
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sounds like a "training day" type of movie
More like The Shield. I wonder if CNN will report this for more than a few minutes?
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I know this is already late, but THIS is what they do. 24hrs is not enough time to appeal any decision to remove your RIGHTS! ZERO due process. Imagine all the people wrongly barred and still being wrongly flagged by the Kaiser medical insurance fiasco!
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If this garbage passes, all you guys that are being harassed by HPD and KAISER should really get together and sue the hell out of this state when they wrongfully confiscate your arms!
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I posted a little late too
late testimony is taken
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Same shit, different bill, different committee.
Public Testimony (https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/Session2018/Testimony/HB2228_TESTIMONY_PBS_02-08-18_.PDF):
FOR [11 Revised. See edit note below] 17 (seventeen) (includes 12 identical form letters on "Moms Demand Action" letterhead) (Should we make up some letterheads like "Humans Demand Rights"?)
OPPOSED 51 (fifty-one)
Thus yielding another UNANIMOUS FOR vote by the committee! I see how this works! :crazy:
2/8/2018 H The committees on PBS recommend that the measure be PASSED, WITH AMENDMENTS. The votes were as follows: 6 Ayes: Representative(s) Takayama, Gates, Creagan, DeCoite, Say, Thielen; Ayes with reservations: none; Noes: none; and 1 Excused: Representative(s) Ing.
[Edit: I had time to go back and actually read the testimony. It turns out that the 12 letters from Moms Demand Action is actually only 6 letters that are each repeated and appear twice. This changes the total FOR to 11 (eleven) rather than 17, unless, for some reason submitting or counting the same letter twice applies to those who would revoke our rights even more so than they are already infringed.) For: 11 Opposed: 51 I should add that those repeated letters are not wholly identical, they mostly contain at least some of the same boilerplate, but do have individual variations, including someone claiming to have been a resident of Isla Vista at the time of the murder rampage there, and she lies about what happened (half the homicides were by stabbing, half the injuries by vehicular assault, not by firearms as she claims and thus asserts this bill would prevent similar happenings). I also find it "curious" that a man is the leader of the Hawaii chapter of Moms Demand Action... but, whatevahs...]
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H 2/8/2018: The committees on PBS recommend that the measure be PASSED, WITH AMENDMENTS. The votes were as follows: 6 Ayes: Representative(s) Takayama, Gates, Creagan, DeCoite, Say, Thielen; Ayes with reservations: none; Noes: none; and 1 Excused: Representative(s) Ing.
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2018/bills/HB2228_.pdf
HB2228 Firearms; Safety; Voluntary Surrender
RELATING TO PUBLIC SAFETY. Requires individuals who are disqualified from firearms and ammunition ownership or possession to voluntarily surrender their firearms to the chief of police within twenty-four hours of notice of disqualification.
Oppose. TAKAYAMA, CREAGAN, DECOITE, GATES, LOPRESTI PBS, JUD
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While I'm heartened by the support shown by 2a supporters, I'm worried about their willingness to advance the bill, despite strong opposition to it. Most of the support for the bill seems to be probably from 1-2 people simply copying and pasting variations of the same flawed emotional argument.
I think that the fact that HPD took about 1 month to retract the medical marijuana confiscation letters (at the shortest) poses a very persuasive argument as to why the law shouldn't be changed and 2a supporters should take advantage of going forward.
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[Here is my post from yesterday afternoon from the "General Discussion" thread, in case some people are only reading "Legal and Activism".]
Same shit, different bill, different committee.
Public Testimony (https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/Session2018/Testimony/HB2228_TESTIMONY_PBS_02-08-18_.PDF):
FOR [11 Revised. See edit note below] 17 (seventeen) (includes 12 identical form letters on "Moms Demand Action" letterhead) (Should we make up some letterheads like "Humans Demand Rights"?)
OPPOSED 51 (fifty-one)
Thus yielding another UNANIMOUS FOR vote by the committee! I see how this works! :crazy:
2/8/2018 H The committees on PBS recommend that the measure be PASSED, WITH AMENDMENTS. The votes were as follows: 6 Ayes: Representative(s) Takayama, Gates, Creagan, DeCoite, Say, Thielen; Ayes with reservations: none; Noes: none; and 1 Excused: Representative(s) Ing.
[Edit: I had time to go back and actually read the testimony. It turns out that the 12 letters from Moms Demand Action is actually only 6 letters that are each repeated and appear twice. This changes the total FOR to 11 (eleven) rather than 17, unless, for some reason submitting or counting the same letter twice applies to those who would revoke our rights even more so than they are already infringed.) For: 11 Opposed: 51 I should add that those repeated letters are not wholly identical, they mostly contain at least some of the same boilerplate, but do have individual variations, including someone claiming to have been a resident of Isla Vista at the time of the murder rampage there, and she lies about what happened (half the homicides were by stabbing, half the injuries by vehicular assault, not by firearms as she claims and thus asserts this bill would prevent similar happenings). I also find it "curious" that a man is the leader of the Hawaii chapter of Moms Demand Action... but, whatevahs...]
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[Here is my post from yesterday afternoon from the "General Discussion" thread, in case some people are only reading "Legal and Activism".]
Same shit, different bill, different committee.
Public Testimony (https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/Session2018/Testimony/HB2228_TESTIMONY_PBS_02-08-18_.PDF):
FOR [11 Revised. See edit note below] 17 (seventeen) (includes 12 identical form letters on "Moms Demand Action" letterhead) (Should we make up some letterheads like "Humans Demand Rights"?)
OPPOSED 51 (fifty-one)
Thus yielding another UNANIMOUS FOR vote by the committee! I see how this works! :crazy:
2/8/2018 H The committees on PBS recommend that the measure be PASSED, WITH AMENDMENTS. The votes were as follows: 6 Ayes: Representative(s) Takayama, Gates, Creagan, DeCoite, Say, Thielen; Ayes with reservations: none; Noes: none; and 1 Excused: Representative(s) Ing.
[Edit: I had time to go back and actually read the testimony. It turns out that the 12 letters from Moms Demand Action is actually only 6 letters that are each repeated and appear twice. This changes the total FOR to 11 (eleven) rather than 17, unless, for some reason submitting or counting the same letter twice applies to those who would revoke our rights even more so than they are already infringed.) For: 11 Opposed: 51 I should add that those repeated letters are not wholly identical, they mostly contain at least some of the same boilerplate, but do have individual variations, including someone claiming to have been a resident of Isla Vista at the time of the murder rampage there, and she lies about what happened (half the homicides were by stabbing, half the injuries by vehicular assault, not by firearms as she claims and thus asserts this bill would prevent similar happenings). I also find it "curious" that a man is the leader of the Hawaii chapter of Moms Demand Action... but, whatevahs...]
The trick is to have a good sounding name, then reps will listen more. So if our name is "Molon Labe", no chance of being heard.
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A group name such as "Listen To the People or get fired"
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A group name such as "Listen To the People or get fired"
They have no obligation, moral necessity, nor legal requirement to listen to their constituents, Especially in the case of Hawaii where the entire legislature is almost entirely progressive Democrats who think just like Clinton: "[Y]ou could put half of Trump's supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. They’re racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic — Islamophobic — you name it."
Why would they listen to anyone like that?
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These progressives / democrats hail the virtue of tolerance... except towards those that don't agree with them.
These are the people in the PBS committee that voted for this bill despite overwhelming testimonies against it.
(https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/Members/Images/RepSenPhotos/takayama.jpg)
Gregg Takayama, Chair (HRA 2014 A Rating, NRA 2014 B- Rating)
House District 34
Hawaii State Capitol, Room 323
phone: 808-586-6340
fax: 808-586-6341
reptakayama@Capitol.hawaii.gov
(https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/Members/Images/RepSenPhotos/gates.jpg)
Cedric Asuega Gates (No rating)
House District 44
Hawaii State Capitol, Room 311
phone: 808-586-8460
fax: 808-586-8464
repgates@Capitol.hawaii.gov
(https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/Members/Images/RepSenPhotos/creagan.jpg)
Richard Creagan (NRA 2014 C Rating)
House District 5
Hawaii State Capitol
Room 331
phone: 808-586-9605
fax: 808-586-9608
repcreagan@Capitol.hawaii.gov
(https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/Members/Images/RepSenPhotos/decoite.jpg)
Lynn Decoite (No rating)
House District 13
Hawaii State Capitol
Room 324
phone: 808-586-6790
fax: 808-586-6779
repdecoite@Capitol.hawaii.gov
(https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/Members/Images/RepSenPhotos/say.jpg)
Calvin Say (HRA 2014 A rating, NRA 2014 C Rating)
House District 20
Hawaii State Capitol
Room 433
phone: 808-586-6900
fax: 808-586-6910
repsay@Capitol.hawaii.gov
(https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/Members/Images/RepSenPhotos/thielen.jpg)
Cynthia Thielen (HRA 2014 A Rating, NRA C- Rating)
House District 50
Hawaii State Capitol
Room 443
phone: 808-586-6480
fax: 808-586-6481
repthielen@Capitol.hawaii.gov
Kaniela Ing was not present at this voting.
(https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/Members/Images/RepSenPhotos/ing.jpg)
Kaniela Ing (HRA 2014 F rating, NRA 2014 D Rating)
House District 11
Hawaii State Capitol
Room 427
phone: 808-586-8525
fax: 808-586-8529
reping@Capitol.hawaii.gov
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So three of those votes to further infringe our rights came from people who are rated "A" by HRA. Haha. That's a good one. What, are they graded on a curve? F: fascist dictator. A: Assistant fascist dictator. :crazy:
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They are graded on curve, these “fair weathered friends”.
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Points I brought up is
Inability to transfer to another person
Difficulty in transferring to ffl
No time to dispute an erroneous disqualification
Undue hardship getting guns back
Pds will not take care of the firearms.
I submitted basically same testimony
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
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For the record, they have amended the bill to 48 hours to surrender.
H 2/14/2018: Reported from PBS (Stand. Com. Rep. No. 350-18) as amended in HD 1, recommending passage on Second Reading and referral to JUD.
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2018/bills/HB2228_HD1_.pdf
HB2228 HD1 Firearms; Safety; Voluntary Surrender
RELATING TO PUBLIC SAFETY. Requires individuals who are denied a firearm permit or disqualified from firearms and ammunition ownership or possession to voluntarily surrender their firearms and ammunition to the chief of police within forty-eight hours of receiving notice of disqualification. (HB2228 HD1)
Oppose. TAKAYAMA, CREAGAN, DECOITE, GATES, LOPRESTI PBS, JUD
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H 2/14/2018: Passed Second Reading as amended in HD 1 and referred to the committee(s) on JUD with Representative(s) DeCoite, Har, Ward voting aye with reservations; Representative(s) Choy, Ito, Kong, McDermott, Tokioka, Tupola voting no (6) and Representative(s) Souki excused (1).
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2018/bills/HB2228_HD1_.pdf
HB2228 HD1 Firearms; Safety; Voluntary Surrender
RELATING TO PUBLIC SAFETY. Requires individuals who are denied a firearm permit or disqualified from firearms and ammunition ownership or possession to voluntarily surrender their firearms and ammunition to the chief of police within forty-eight hours of receiving notice of disqualification. (HB2228 HD1)
Oppose. TAKAYAMA, CREAGAN, DECOITE, GATES, LOPRESTI PBS, JUD
So everyone in the House voted Aye, while 3 voted Aye with reservations (DeCoite, Har and Ward) and only 6 voted No (Choy, Ito, Kong, McDermott, Tokioka and Tupola).
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So everyone in the House voted Aye, while 3 voted Aye with reservations (DeCoite, Har and Ward) and only 6 voted No (Choy, Ito, Kong, McDermott, Tokioka and Tupola).
For the 1st and 2nd readings, the tendency is for the chamber to vote Aye even on bills they oppose. They want to see what happens in the committees. The third reading (final vote) is when the opposition votes come out.
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For the 1st and 2nd readings, the tendency is for the chamber to vote Aye even on bills they oppose. They want to see what happens in the committees. The third reading (final vote) is when the opposition votes come out.
I dont understand the vote aye now and nay later. Seems like a waste of time and money. Can u explain?
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I dont understand the vote aye now and nay later. Seems like a waste of time and money. Can u explain?
The reading's are votes by the chamber (25 in the senate/51 in the house) on whether the bill advances. Aye (in favor) and Nay (opposed) votes, majority count wins. Bills will very rarely get killed during the 1st and 2nd reading because they want the committees to go over the bill and public be able to testify. They vote a 3rd time at the end after they're able to read the committee hearing notes and testimonies and any amendments made.
Everything may seem time consuming, but it's the survival of the fittest. Ensure the best bills pass which is about 5-10% of the 2,000-3,000 bills introduced at the beginning.
(https://i.imgur.com/cxpH3tk.jpg)
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FOR [11 Revised. See edit note below] 17 (seventeen) (includes 12 identical form letters on "Moms Demand Action" letterhead) (Should we make up some letterheads like "Humans Demand Rights"?)
OPPOSED 51 (fifty-one)
The trick is to have a good sounding name, then reps will listen more. So if our name is "Molon Labe", no chance of being heard.
A group name such as "Listen To the People or get fired"
(https://ibb.co/hzJ6an)
https://ibb.co/hzJ6an
[Not sure why it won't show the jpg image... is Bloomberg hacking this site?]