2aHawaii
General Topics => Legal and Activism => Topic started by: punaperson on February 09, 2018, 04:00:48 PM
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Who writes this crap? Or is it deliberately so vague and unintelligible to the real world of firearms that it can mean anything they want it to mean? Evil. Pure evil. Two weeks ago I wrote several of the "introducers" of this bill and asked them to define "burst" and/or "multiburst"... no surprise at all, but...crickets.
Testimony due by Monday 2 PM.
Summary and status: https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=HB&billnumber=1908
Bill Text: https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2018/bills/HB1908_.HTM
"§134- Multiburst trigger activator; prohibition. (a) Any person in this State who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the State, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any multiburst trigger activator shall be guilty of a class C felony.
(b) As used in this section, "multiburst trigger activator" means:
(1) A device designed or redesigned to be attached to a semiautomatic firearm, which allows the firearm to discharge two or more shots in a burst by activating the device; or
(2) A manual or power-driven trigger activating device constructed and designed so that when attached to a semiautomatic firearm it increases the rate of fire of that firearm."
HB1908
Measure Title: RELATING TO FIREARMS.
Report Title: Prohibited; Multiburst Trigger Activators
Description: Prohibits multiburst trigger activators.
Companion:
Package: None
Current Referral: JUD, CPC
Introducer(s): TAKAYAMA, CREAGAN, DECOITE, GATES, ING, KEOHOKALOLE, LOPRESTI, LOWEN, NISHIMOTO, SAY
Sort by Date Status Text
1/18/2018 H Pending introduction.
1/19/2018 H Introduced and Pass First Reading.
1/22/2018 H Referred to JUD, CPC, referral sheet 4
2/9/2018 H Bill scheduled to be heard by JUD on Tuesday, 02-13-18 2:00PM in House conference room 325.
COMMITTEE ON JUDICIARY
Rep. Scott Y. Nishimoto, Chair
Rep. Joy A. San Buenaventura, Vice Chair
Rep. Tom Brower
Rep. Gregg Takayama
Rep. Chris Lee
Rep. Bob McDermott
Rep. Dee Morikawa
Rep. Cynthia Thielen
NOTICE OF HEARING
DATE: Tuesday, February 13, 2018
TIME: 2 p.m.
PLACE: Conference Room 325
State Capitol
415 South Beretania Street
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Must be watching too many video games...
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Must be watching too many video games...
anyone have an idea how to testify against this? it's more specific, but still says "increase the rate of fire"
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anyone have an idea how to testify against this? it's more specific, but still says "increase the rate of fire"
i'm thinking "actually enforce the laws that are already in place, stop releasing violent criminals"
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This one seems to exclude lighter triggers, but more things that attach to a trigger.
How does 3 round burts selector work for military rifles? Im thinking u hold the trigger down and it allows the hammer to strike 3x then locks the hammer back. After thr 3rd strike. If this is true, then "burst" means 1 trigger pull, multiple hammer strikes. So a bump stock doesnt fit this definition because the strigger resets still (1 press, 1 round).
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what? that would make the firearm a machine gun which would make it already illegal.
This bill is fine. Let them pass stuff that makes already illegal stuff illegal. That is fine if they want to waste doing that.
You know what they should make illegal? Murder
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they should write a bill that would redefine murder and other crimes.
A real crime bill that defines criminals and all crime >:D :wacko:
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This one seems to exclude lighter triggers, but more things that attach to a trigger.
How does 3 round burts selector work for military rifles? Im thinking u hold the trigger down and it allows the hammer to strike 3x then locks the hammer back. After thr 3rd strike. If this is true, then "burst" means 1 trigger pull, multiple hammer strikes. So a bump stock doesnt fit this definition because the strigger resets still (1 press, 1 round).
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Activate the trigger once, 3 rounds exit the muzzle. read "machine gun"
Any other legal device that can be installed is legal because for one activation, one round is expelled. The ATF approved all these devices for this FACT.
They cannot make a definition of "increase the rate of fire" because all these legal devices do not increase the rate of fire. It still is and will always be one round per activation.
Only way they can truly ban something is to name it explicitly and the mode of operation for each and every device.
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anyone have an idea how to testify against this? it's more specific, but still says "increase the rate of fire"
I wouldn't give them much on this one. Maybe something like this?
"Representatives,
Multiburst triggers "machine guns" are already regulated federally and banned specifically in Hawaii. This bill just repeats the language that bans automatic weapons in the state of Hawaii. Oppose this bill and please consider working on bills that will actually prevent crimes and catching /incarcerating criminals.
Law abiding gun owners are not the problem in this state.
Thank you.
Heavies"
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Maybe their trying something new. By writing a bill that is so poorly written with Star Wars-like verbiage, maybe they assume it will be difficult to write testimony against it? LOL ....
Anyway, submitted mine tonight:
"I oppose this bill as any law-abiding citizen should be able to decipher the language within ANY bill put forth with the intention of ruling over the people. Aside from another attempt at an infringement on constitutional rights, HB 1908 contains a myriad of verbiage that carries no distinction or true definition. "Burst" is to be defined as what exact "rate of fire"?
On this basis alone, this bill, as is SB 2046 and the majority of other anti-second amendment bills in this current legislative session, has vague language in what appears to be purposeful to effect law-abiding citizens in another annual attempt to mitigate the second amendment rights of the law-abiding."
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How about we all vote support since its making something already illegal, illegal again?
Checkmate.
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Maybe their trying something new. By writing a bill that is so poorly written with Star Wars-like verbiage, maybe they assume it will be difficult to write testimony against it? LOL ....
Anyway, submitted mine tonight:
"I oppose this bill as any law-abiding citizen should be able to decipher the language within ANY bill put forth with the intention of ruling over the people. Aside from another attempt at an infringement on constitutional rights, HB 1908 contains a myriad of verbiage that carries no distinction or true definition. "Burst" is to be defined as what exact "rate of fire"?
On this basis alone, this bill, as is SB 2046 and the majority of other anti-second amendment bills in this current legislative session, has vague language in what appears to be purposeful to effect law-abiding citizens in another annual attempt to mitigate the second amendment rights of the law-abiding."
well said.. I like it.
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How does 3 round burts selector work for military rifles? Im thinking u hold the trigger down and it allows the hammer to strike 3x then locks the hammer back. After thr 3rd strike. If this is true, then "burst" means 1 trigger pull, multiple hammer strikes. So a bump stock doesnt fit this definition because the strigger resets still (1 press, 1 round).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxwPEL8winI
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How about we all vote support since its making something already illegal, illegal again?
Checkmate.
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Lol. all good until they start just making up whatever rule they want cause the law says.. haha. Maybe, one round per second, anything faster is considered a "burst" Next thing you know "one round bursts" will be illegal.
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On a serious note, shall we support this? So they feel like they get a win and drop the issue until next year when more infringments come along.
The other bills suck even more and are way more vague.
Like i mentioned, i was told "some sort of bump stock bill will pass".
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On a serious note, shall we support this? So they feel like they get a win and drop the issue until next year when more infringments come along.
The other bills suck even more and are way more vague.
Like i mentioned, i was told "some sort of bump stock bill will pass".
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I would never support it. If I felt it wouldn't be harmful, maybe ignore it, but that is already what the majority of gun owners do now... and chip chip chip away goes your rights. JMHO
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what? that would make the firearm a machine gun which would make it already illegal.
This bill is fine. Let them pass stuff that makes already illegal stuff illegal. That is fine if they want to waste doing that.
You know what they should make illegal? Murder
+1
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On a serious note, shall we support this? So they feel like they get a win and drop the issue until next year when more infringments come along.
The other bills suck even more and are way more vague.
Like i mentioned, i was told "some sort of bump stock bill will pass".
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
No way. That's not how THEY think. Give them an inch and they take a light year, or they try to. They're not going to stop until we're left with single shot .22lr rifles and .22 revolvers.
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One click way to email all reps on JUD re HB1908 via NRA-ILA:
https://www.nraila.org/articles/20180210/hawaii-trigger-modification-bill-scheduled-for-hearing
Hawaii: Trigger Modification Bill Scheduled for Hearing
SATURDAY, FEBRUARY 10, 2018
On Tuesday, February 13, the House Committee on Judiciary has scheduled to hear House Bill 1908, legislation prohibiting certain trigger modifications. Contact members of the Committee and urge their opposition to HB 1908 by clicking on the take action button below. [Go to above link to submit emails to all committee members.]
Also, please consider submitting testimony to the committee through the Hawaii Legislature website. In order to submit testimony, you will need to create an account. For help creating an account and submitting testimony, click here.
House Bill 1908, introduced by Representative Gregg Takayama (D-34), would make it a felony for any person who “manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the State, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses” certain trigger modifications. The broad language of this bill could encompass many common modifications done by law-abiding gun owners to make their firearms more suitable for self-defense, competition, hunting, or even overcoming disability.
On Thursday, the House Committee on Public Safety passed House Bill 2228 with amendments. House Bill 2228 will now move to the Judiciary committee where it has yet to be scheduled for a hearing.
House Bill 2228, sponsored by Representative Gregg Takayama (D-34), is similar to SB 2436, dramatically reducing the time period a prohibited person, whether temporarily or permanently prohibited, has to comply with the current requirement to surrender their firearms from 30 days to 24 hours. This expedited time period could subject an individual, who may have nothing more than allegations as the basis for the prohibition, to an unfettered search of their home and/or business within days of being accused; all this without taking into account the many issues surrounding “surrender statutes” in general, including possible violations of an individual’s right against self-incrimination.
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"Multiburst Trigger Activator"
I can't get over the base stupidity of this.
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Burst means to fire several shots really quickly, like a m4 3 round burst with one trigger pull. So multiburst is shooting several bursts quickly? So for a m4 it would shoot like 9 rounds?
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Burst means to fire several shots really quickly, like a m4 3 round burst with one trigger pull. So multiburst is shooting several bursts quickly? So for a m4 it would shoot like 9 rounds?
Hey, just because they are ignoramuses who have no idea what they are talking about and make up words to mean whatever they want them to mean about firearms that are already illegal in Hawaii doesn't mean they aren't "qualified" to pass laws that make us into felons. Isn't that how "government" is supposed to work? I'm really on the verge of submitting some "unprofessional" testimony... >:(
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This language is no different than writing a law to register firearms and no way to un-register them.
Ignorant people.
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Hey, just because they are ignoramuses who have no idea what they are talking about and make up words to mean whatever they want them to mean about firearms that are already illegal in Hawaii doesn't mean they aren't "qualified" to pass laws that make us into felons. Isn't that how "government" is supposed to work? I'm really on the verge of submitting some "unprofessional" testimony... >:(
30 caliber clip in half a second...
I say again half a second in 30 calibers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXqWJtgyqRM
magazine is like ammunition
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mxtu228bYFw
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30 caliber clip in half a second...
I say again half a second in 30 calibers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXqWJtgyqRM
magazine is like ammunition
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mxtu228bYFw
The truly sad thing is that these mental midgets get reelected, over and over again.
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Testimony done.
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Submitted testimony. Enough poorly written and ineffective legislation already.
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Looking for your opinions. Should we show a video of someone "bumpfiring" with a rubber band or belt loop and show it to the committee? Would it help or hurt us? I see it as helping in that they'll have that "oh Sh@t" moment and realize that bumpstocks are expensive items that don't really do anything special. However they could see it as semi auto rifles are more dangerous now.
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Looking for your opinions. Should we show a video of someone "bumpfiring" with a rubber band or belt loop and show it to the committee? Would it help or hurt us? I see it as helping in that they'll have that "oh Sh@t" moment and realize that bumpstocks are expensive items that don't really do anything special. However they could see it as semi auto rifles are more dangerous now.
I'm sure they could watch YouTube on their own. They already want to ban all peons firearms, they just won't come straight out and say it. No sense help them.
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Looking for your opinions. Should we show a video of someone "bumpfiring" with a rubber band or belt loop and show it to the committee? Would it help or hurt us? I see it as helping in that they'll have that "oh Sh@t" moment and realize that bumpstocks are expensive items that don't really do anything special. However they could see it as semi auto rifles are more dangerous now.
The people on the committee (the vast majority anyway) are immune to facts. They are operating ideologically and thus no rational, logical, evidence-based arguments/facts hold any sway. (But, of course they all "support the Second Amendment,but...") I believe there are also stupidity and ignorance factors at play. Haven't we seen that recently (as in years past) with unanimous votes for vaguely-worded and unenforceable laws that would have no effect on crime? If they were to defer/defeat this bill, it would be for "political" reasons, part of a strategy to further restrict our rights via other bills and using the cover of "we voted against that" (so "we're not oath-breaking tyrants") .
The rubbers bands would be "attached", so they'd be banned by this bill, but firing from belt loops, using a stick at the shoulder, and "bump firing from the shoulder" with no "device" at all, much less on "attached" to the firearm are all simple ways to "increase the rate of fire" without violating the "law" if this bill were passed and signed into law. Showing them videos of the myriad simple free ways to circumvent their "commonsense gun safety regulation" would not dissuade them. I mean, not a single "gun control" law has ever dissuaded a criminal from using a firearm to commit crimes, but they still think those are the solution to criminals being criminals and victimizing innocent people. Like I said, stupid is a factor here.
The only "solution" in this instance is to ban "an increased rate of fire", and since even they can figure out that that couldn't possibly be enforced (like most of their other shit laws) the only remaining option is to ban semi-automatic firearms. And I can assure you even if they accomplished that, they would come after the remaining categories of firearms. Like I said, they are ideologues. "No one needs a gun."
But I submitted lengthy testimony anyway. :geekdanc: :shaka:
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Looking for your opinions. Should we show a video of someone "bumpfiring" with a rubber band or belt loop and show it to the committee? Would it help or hurt us? I see it as helping in that they'll have that "oh Sh@t" moment and realize that bumpstocks are expensive items that don't really do anything special. However they could see it as semi auto rifles are more dangerous now.
you are asking illogical people to think logically...
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MA was the 1st state to ban bump stocks and had a surrender by date. So far only 3 in the entire state were surrendered.
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I'll be working at the State Capitol today so let me know if you need any help if you come down. I can show you around the capitol prior to the hearing, just send me a msg. Unfortunately I wont be at the HB1908 hearing due to I have to work in another committee room at the same time.
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MA was the 1st state to ban bump stocks and had a surrender by date. So far only 3 in the entire state were surrendered.
I'm sure everyone in the state besides those three people obeyed the law and either destroyed them or shipped them out of MA, right?
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we need a video showing bumpfiring of a WW I era semi-auto rifle. one of those with a wooden stock. I don't know, were semi-auto's used in the first big one? showing my world history ignance here.
find a semi-auto that's not viewed as black evil, and do the belt loop thing with that.
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we need a video showing bumpfiring of a WW I era semi-auto rifle. one of those with a wooden stock. I don't know, were semi-auto's used in the first big one? showing my world history ignance here.
find a semi-auto that's not viewed as black evil, and do the belt loop thing with that.
Good point, I wonder if my M1 Carbine would work. The trigger is stiffer and doesn't recoil as much.
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When can we see the testimony submitted?
Hearing is in 3 hours.
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When can we see the testimony submitted?
Hearing is in 3 hours.
How the process of posting testimony works:
Once your testimony is submitted and is listed in green in the sidebar, it is in our system. However, it is not automatically posted to the website.
Senate
Testimony submitted by the 24-hour deadline will be posted online prior to the convening of the public hearing.
Testimony received after the 24-hour deadline will be posted to the Capitol website within 24 hours after the hearing has adjourned and may be marked as "late".
House
The hearing committee gathers all "on-time" testimony in the system for a particular bill, which is testimony submitted at least 24 hours before the hearing, and compiles it into a single document. Staff will try to incorporate additional testimony received within 24 hours of the hearing if possible.
The hearing committee will post testimony received "on-time" to the Capitol website at the beginning of the hearing.
Testimony received after the 24-hour deadline may be marked as "late" but will be posted to the Capitol website as soon as possible following the hearing. Testimony submitted after the hearing will not be considered or posted.
[Sometimes it's posted a little earlier than stated above... sometimes.]
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Okay, it's one hour and eight minutes after the testimony was supposed to be posted (when the meeting started) and it isn't. Anybody know what's going on with the committee meeting? There is no live streaming of audio or video of the meeting (and no posted video of the PSM meeting that passed SB2046 unanimously). :shaka:
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Okay, it's one hour and eight minutes after the testimony was supposed to be posted (when the meeting started) and it isn't. Anybody know what's going on with the committee meeting? There is no live streaming of audio or video of the meeting (and no posted video of the PSM meeting that passed SB2046 unanimously). :shaka:
There's 4 of us here. Still waiting for HB1908.
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There's 4 of us here. Still waiting for HB1908.
Thanks for the update zippz. They finally posted the testimony:
FOR 3 (three) (includes identical letter as for SB2064 from Harry Kim on government stationery)
OPPOSED 90 (ninety)(includes 27 handwritten oppsositions as a results of zippz's outreach effort!)
OPPOSED LATE 22 (twenty-two)
OPPOSED TOTAL: 112 (one hundred and twelve)
A ratio of more that 37 to 1 OPPOSED! Will it pass unanimously?!
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Bill was passed with 1 nay from McDermott. It was amended with language to make it more clear it only affects bump stocks and trigger cranks instead of regular trigger replacements/mods.
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Bill was passed with 1 nay from McDermott. It was amended with language to make it more clear it only affects bump stocks and trigger cranks instead of regular trigger replacements/mods.
Thanks zippz. Since the amended version won't likely be available until tomorrow, could you tell us if they left the "multiburst" and "burst" terminology in, and was there any mention of the testimonies that pointed out that that terminology refers to the already banned automatic and/or select fire weapons? Still includes rubber bands, etc.?
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Thanks for the update Zippz.
In my opinion stop mentioning rubber-bands and belt loops unless we want semi-auto's banned.
(Yeah go off into your folks pipe -dream shall not be infringed speeches)
With amendments, if it really is just bump stocks and trigger cranks, and it passes over SB 2046, we win. IMO.
SB2046 is pure evil.
And I'm upset at the names missing from the testimony list.
I've dealt with a crap load of members. And only a fraction testify or are using aliases.
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For the record.
H 2/13/2018: The committees on JUD recommend that the measure be PASSED, WITH AMENDMENTS. The votes were as follows: 7 Ayes: Representative(s) Nishimoto, San Buenaventura, Brower, C. Lee, Morikawa, Takayama, Thielen; Ayes with reservations: none; 1 Noes: Representative(s) McDermott; and Excused: none.
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2018/bills/HB1908_.pdf
HB1908 Prohibited; Multiburst Trigger Activators
RELATING TO FIREARMS. Prohibits multiburst trigger activators.
Oppose. TAKAYAMA, CREAGAN, DECOITE, GATES, ING, KEOHOKALOLE, LOPRESTI, LOWEN, NISHIMOTO, SAY JUD, CPC
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JUD Committee members are the following:
McDermott is the only one who voted NO on this bill.
(https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/Members/Images/RepSenPhotos/mcdermott.jpg)
Bob McDermott (HRA 2016 Rating A)
House District 40
Hawaii State Capitol
Room 330
phone: 808-586-9730
fax: 808-586-9738
repmcdermott@Capitol.hawaii.gov
So with 3 testimonies in support and 122 testimonies in opposition, these are the rest of the jokers people's representatives who voted FOR this bill.
(https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/Members/Images/RepSenPhotos/nishimoto.jpg)
Scott Y. Nishimoto (HRA 2016 Rating F, NRA 2014 Rating D)
House District 21
Hawaii State Capitol, Room 421
phone: 808-586-8515
fax: 808-586-8519
(https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/Members/Images/RepSenPhotos/sanbuenaventura.jpg)
Joy A. San Buenaventura (HRA 2016 Rating F)
House District 4
Hawaii State Capitol, Room 302
phone: 808-586-6530
fax: 808-586-6531
repsanbuenaventura@Capitol.hawaii.gov
(https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/Members/Images/RepSenPhotos/brower.jpg)
Tom Brower (HRA 2016 Rating D, NRA 2014 Rating B)
House District 22
Hawaii State Capitol
Room 315
phone: 808-586-8520
fax: 808-586-8524
repbrower@Capitol.hawaii.gov
(https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/Members/Images/RepSenPhotos/clee.jpg)
Chris Lee (HRA 2016 Rating F)
House District 51
Hawaii State Capitol
Room 436
phone: 808-586-9450
fax: 808-586-9456
replee@Capitol.hawaii.gov
(https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/Members/Images/RepSenPhotos/morikawa.jpg)
Dee Morikawa (HRA 2016 Rating C)
House District 16
Hawaii State Capitol
Room 442
phone: 808-586-6280
fax: 808-586-6281
repmorikawa@Capitol.hawaii.gov
(https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/Members/Images/RepSenPhotos/takayama.jpg)
Gregg Takayama (HRA 2016 Rating D)
House District 34
Hawaii State Capitol
Room 323
phone: 808-586-6340
fax: 808-586-6341
reptakayama@Capitol.hawaii.gov
(https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/Members/Images/RepSenPhotos/thielen.jpg)
Cynthia Thielen (HRA 2016 Rating D, NRA 2014 Rating C-)
House District 50
Hawaii State Capitol
Room 443
phone: 808-586-6480
fax: 808-586-6481
repthielen@Capitol.hawaii.gov
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Thanks zippz. Since the amended version won't likely be available until tomorrow, could you tell us if they left the "multiburst" and "burst" terminology in, and was there any mention of the testimonies that pointed out that that terminology refers to the already banned automatic and/or select fire weapons? Still includes rubber bands, etc.?
Gotta see the bill when it's posted, they don't go over the exact wording of the amendment at the hearing.
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When does the governor start signing bills usually? Just so I know when to have my shit at the post office.
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When does the governor start signing bills usually? Just so I know when to have my shit at the post office.
May-June
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Our clowns aren’t even that creative the amendments are verbatim from a California law, https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN§ionNum=16930
PENAL CODE - PEN
PART 6. CONTROL OF DEADLY WEAPONS [16000 - 34370] ( Part 6 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )
TITLE 1. PRELIMINARY PROVISIONS [16000 - 17360] ( Title 1 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )
DIVISION 2. DEFINITIONS [16100 - 17360] ( Division 2 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )
16930.
As used in this part, a “multiburst trigger activator” means either of the following:
(a) A device designed or redesigned to be attached to a semiautomatic firearm, which allows the firearm to discharge two or more shots in a burst by activating the device.
(b) A manual or power-driven trigger activating device constructed and designed so that when attached to a semiautomatic firearm it increases the rate of fire of that firearm.
(Added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. (SB 1080) Effective January 1, 2011. Operative January 1, 2012, by Sec. 10 of Ch. 711.)
Our HB1908
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2018/bills/HB1908_.HTM
RELATING TO FIREARMS.
BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF HAWAII:
SECTION 1. Chapter 134, Hawaii Revised Statutes, is amended by adding a new section to part I to be appropriately designated and to read as follows:
"§134- Multiburst trigger activator; prohibition. (a) Any person in this State who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the State, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any multiburst trigger activator shall be guilty of a class C felony.
(b) As used in this section, "multiburst trigger activator" means:
(1) A device designed or redesigned to be attached to a semiautomatic firearm, which allows the firearm to discharge two or more shots in a burst by activating the device; or
(2) A manual or power-driven trigger activating device constructed and designed so that when attached to a semiautomatic firearm it increases the rate of fire of that firearm."
SECTION 2. New statutory material is underscored.
SECTION 3. This Act shall take effect upon its approval.
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Our clowns aren’t even that creative the amendments are verbatim from a California law, https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN§ionNum=16930
Yea, doesn't matter now that the bill's language was changed today.
Go to calguns.net to see how they interpreted their law.
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Our clowns aren’t even that creative the amendments are verbatim from a California law, https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN§ionNum=16930
A lot of the anti-rights stuff is spoon-fed by civilian disarmament groups (Moms Demand Action, Violence Policy Center, et al.) who have huge phalanxes of lawyers paid for by Bloomberg, et al. to create the anti-rights legislation... which is usually adapted to each state's existing statutory language if necessary. The "progressive" Hawaii legislature has an abundance of clowns (who share the civilian disarmament goal) who willingly throw this stuff against the wall, probably without even the quid pro quo of a "donation".
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When the amended version is posted by "our" government, I will post it here. Any bets on whether or not it will qualify for the adjective "stupid"? Or "ignorant"? Or "useless"? Or "unenforceable"? Etc.
Meanwhile, our government refuses to even schedule a hearing for a bill that will repeal the ban on stun guns, which the Supreme Court of the United States has already issued a UNANIMOUS (yes, even Ginsburg agreed!) per curiam decision that such bans are unconstitutional.
That's how much they honor their oaths to uphold the Constitution(s).
>:( :crazy:
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Talked to chair Nishimoto's and vice chair San Buenaventura's offices. The bill goes to the House Majority Staff Office to be rendered into the amended form. It may be two days until it is posted, maybe sooner.
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Can you also post the link to the testimonies
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Can you also post the link to the testimonies
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/Session2018/Testimony/HB1908_TESTIMONY_JUD_02-13-18_.PDF
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Yea, doesn't matter now that the bill's language was changed today.
Go to calguns.net to see how they interpreted their law.
You got the link? I visited but there are 40 sub forums and I checked the politics one and others and couldn't find it.
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1
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One click way to email all reps on JUD re HB1908 via NRA-ILA:
https://www.nraila.org/articles/20180210/hawaii-trigger-modification-bill-scheduled-for-hearing
DONE
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We should have to require our legislators to take a course on the subject they are making legislation on and then pass a test indicating they understand the course material
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We should have to require our legislators to take a course on the subject they are making legislation on and then pass a test indicating they understand the course material
That would result in a legislature of zero members. Which, come to think of it, is a great idea!
Just the tests on GMOs and guns would be enough to eliminate most of them, though given the makeup of the legislature they would have the "tests" created by advocates for the positions they already hold (GMOs Bad! Guns Bad!), so they'd all pass with flying colors.
Just like they won't even consider (even schedule a committee hearing) a bill that would change Hawaii from being the only state in the United States that has none of the following: Initiative, Referendum, Recall, Term Limits.
And then they wonder (rejoice?) why Hawaii has the lowest voter turnout in the entire United States... :crazy:
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Don't forget besides a written test, a shooting test as well. Support hand only at 50 yards pistol with 0.5 MOA grouping.
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This bill has gone to the CPC Committee
H 2/16/2018: Reported from JUD (Stand. Com. Rep. No. 597-18) as amended in HD 1, recommending passage on Second Reading and referral to CPC.
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2018/bills/HB1908_HD1_.pdf
HB1908 HD1 Prohibited; Multiburst Trigger Activators; Firearm
RELATING TO FIREARMS. Prohibits multiburst trigger activators. (HB1908 HD1)
Oppose. TAKAYAMA, CREAGAN, DECOITE, GATES, ING, KEOHOKALOLE, LOPRESTI, LOWEN, NISHIMOTO, SAY JUD, CPC
==========================================================
CPC Members are as follows:
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/committeepage.aspx?comm=CPC&year=2018
Testimony email: CPCtestimony@capitol.hawaii.gov
There are 6 pro-2A rated reps and 5 anti-2A rated reps. No hearing is scheduled yet. However, please contact your reps if they are on this list and encourage them show up to vote NAY and kill this bill!
(https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/Members/Images/RepSenPhotos/takumi.jpg)
Roy M. Takumi (HRA 2016 Rating F)
House District 35
Hawaii State Capitol, Room 320
phone: 808-586-6170
fax: 808-586-6171
reptakumi@Capitol.hawaii.gov
(https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/Members/Images/RepSenPhotos/ichiyama.jpg)
Linda Ichiyama (HRA 2016 Rating D)
House District 32
Hawaii State Capitol, Room 327
phone: 808-586-6220
fax: 808-586-6221
repichiyama@Capitol.hawaii.gov
(https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/Members/Images/RepSenPhotos/aquino.jpg)
Henry Aquino (HRA 2016 Rating A)
House District 38
Hawaii State Capitol
Room 419
phone: 808-586-6520
fax: 808-586-6521
repaquino@Capitol.hawaii.gov
(https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/Members/Images/RepSenPhotos/ito.jpg)
Ken Ito (HRA 2016 Rating A+)
House District 49
Hawaii State Capitol
Room 432
phone: 808-586-8470
fax: 808-586-8474
repito@Capitol.hawaii.gov
(https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/Members/Images/RepSenPhotos/johanson.jpg)
Aaron Ling Johanson (HRA 2016 Rating D)
House District 31
Hawaii State Capitol
Room 426
phone: 808-586-9470
fax: 808-586-9476
repjohanson@Capitol.hawaii.gov
(https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/Members/Images/RepSenPhotos/lopresti.jpg)
Matthew LoPresti (HRA 2016 Rating F)
House District 41
Hawaii State Capitol
Room 424
phone: 808-586-6080
fax: 808-586-6081
replopresti@Capitol.hawaii.gov
(https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/Members/Images/RepSenPhotos/mizuno.jpg)
John Mizuno (HRA 2016 Rating F)
House District 28
Hawaii State Capitol
Room 439
phone: 808-586-6050
fax: 808-586-6051
repmizuno@Capitol.hawaii.gov
(https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/Members/Images/RepSenPhotos/say.jpg)
Calvin Say (HRA 2016 Rating A)
House District 20
Hawaii State Capitol
Room 433
phone: 808-586-6900
fax: 808-586-6910
repsay@Capitol.hawaii.gov
(https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/Members/Images/RepSenPhotos/tokioka.jpg)
James Kunane Tokioka (HRA 2016 Rating A)
House District 15
Hawaii State Capitol
Room 322
phone: 808-586-6270
fax: 808-586-6271
reptokioka@Capitol.hawaii.gov
(https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/Members/Images/RepSenPhotos/yamane.jpg)
Ryan Yamane (HRA 2016 Rating A)
House District 37
Hawaii State Capitol
Room 420
phone: 808-586-6150
fax: 808-586-6151
repyamane@Capitol.hawaii.gov
(https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/Members/Images/RepSenPhotos/mcdermott.jpg)
Bob McDermott (HRA 2016 Rating A)
House District 40
Hawaii State Capitol
Room 330
phone: 808-586-9730
fax: 808-586-9738
repmcdermott@Capitol.hawaii.gov
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Bill was passed with 1 nay from McDermott. It was amended with language to make it more clear it only affects bump stocks and trigger cranks instead of regular trigger replacements/mods.
HB 1908 AMENDMENTS POSTED:
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2018/bills/HB1908_HD1_.HTM
(1) A device that simulates automatic gunfire by allowing standard function of a semiautomatic firearm with a static positioned trigger finger or a device that fires multiple shots with the pull and release of the trigger; or
(2) A manual or power-driven trigger activating device constructed and designed so that when attached to a semiautomatic firearm it simulates automatic gunfire."
Original:
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2018/bills/HB1908_.HTM
(1) A device designed or redesigned to be attached to a semiautomatic firearm, which allows the firearm to discharge two or more shots in a burst by activating the device; or
(2) A manual or power-driven trigger activating device constructed and designed so that when attached to a semiautomatic firearm it increases the rate of fire of that firearm."
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So they replaced "shots in a burst" with "simulates automatic gunfire". (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/images/smilies/facepalm.gif)
(https://s14-eu5.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https:%2F%2Fwww.dumbasaboxofrocks.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F11%2Fbox-of-rocks-gag-gift-.jpg&sp=36b80a3705098a3197089895b851bba9)
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So they replaced "shots in a burst" with "simulates automatic gunfire". (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/images/smilies/facepalm.gif)
One of our gun people proposed the changes as an insurance policy in case the bill gets passed. It's an improvement and further limits what it can be interpreted as. Still opposed though.
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You got the link? I visited but there are 40 sub forums and I checked the politics one and others and couldn't find it.
Login and search for multiburst
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Power driven trigger activator has already been shot down by the ATF. The guys that made a glove with a motor that wiggled your finger.
Perhaps third time the charm to not make something illegal that is already illegal?
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Gotta give it to them they actually listened a little bit.
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Gotta give it to them they actually listened a little bit.
I was thinking the same thing.
I berated them pretty hard and told them they should "Have someone in the room that knows what they're talking about" when they write this stuff.
Saw a number of similar posts from others.
I still don't agree with it, but at least it's not sloppy, vague, and moronic.
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They were talking about this on the local news portion of NPR Thai morning. They started on which individuals (including Mayor Kim) and other coalitions (I wondered how many actually in the coalition and effects if we created coalitions as well) that were for. But then, they mentioned that local citizens conveyed opposition and that most were that the proposed law would serve to ban “legitimate firearm accessories” (don’t recall exactly what they said) and that the opposition far outweighed the support.
To me, that’s was a change in tide in terms of acknowledgment and coverage of opposing as well as the reasoning other than “my 2a right”. Also that the sharing of the opposition points could ring true to other casual firearm owners.
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They were talking about this on the local news portion of NPR Thai morning. They started on which individuals (including Mayor Kim) and other coalitions (I wondered how many actually in the coalition and effects if we created coalitions as well) that were for. But then, they mentioned that local citizens conveyed opposition and that most were that the proposed law would serve to ban “legitimate firearm accessories” (don’t recall exactly what they said) and that the opposition far outweighed the support.
To me, that’s was a change in tide in terms of acknowledgment and coverage of opposing as well as the reasoning other than “my 2a right”. Also that the sharing of the opposition points could ring true to other casual firearm owners.
same thing was in the star-adv this morning regarding HB 2046
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Gotta give it to them they actually listened a little bit.
yes, they did not have to listen or make the amendment...
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yes, they did not have to listen or make the amendment...
My (unsubstantiated) "belief" is that they only made the changes because they knew that the bill as written was subject to legal challenge and likely defeat in the courts due to its vagueness and duplication of already existing law (banning possession of "burst fire"/"multiburst" firearms in Hawaii). I.e. They did not make the changes due to recognition that the law is unenforceable and a violation of constitutionally-protected rights.
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My (unsubstantiated) "belief" is that they only made the changes because they knew that the bill as written was subject to legal challenge and likely defeat in the courts due to its vagueness and duplication of already existing law (banning possession of "burst fire"/"multiburst" firearms in Hawaii). I.e. They did not make the changes due to recognition that the law is unenforceable and a violation of constitutionally-protected rights.
Wish that was the case for Rapback...
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same thing was in the star-adv this morning regarding HB 2046
Good
I mean not earth shattering or anything like that, but I keep noticing seeming little changes of tides here and there. Even with Liberals.
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Good
I mean not earth shattering or anything like that, but I keep noticing seeming little changes of tides here and there. Even with Liberals.
HPR was probably just reporting what was in the star-adv
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HPR was probably just reporting what was in the star-adv
Yeah. I was just thinking the more it’s out there, the better.
NPR as a whole seems to be quite anti-gun, so I wouldn’t doubt if they filtered. But probably easier to just pass on the Star-Adv report.
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Yeah. I was just thinking the more it’s out there, the better.
NPR as a whole seems to be quite anti-gun, so I wouldn’t doubt if they filtered. But probably easier to just pass on the Star-Adv report.
A weekend or two ago NPR "reported" that there have been 18 "school shootings" in the first 25 days of 2018... a totally discredited ("fake news"?)report/statistic (conjured up by Bloomberg's "Everytown for Gun Safety") unless nighttime parking lot suicides by janitors, pellet guns shot a school buses with no injuries, etc. are counted as "school shootings"). They are totally full of shit and as one-sided and ideologically-driven as can be, which I'd have no problem with if I wasn't paying for their fucking propaganda with my tax dollars. Remind me again, why does the government fund these lying assholes? >:(
Hope everyone has a great weekend. :shaka:
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A weekend or two ago NPR "reported" that there have been 18 "school shootings" in the first 25 days of 2018... a totally discredited ("fake news"?)report/statistic (conjured up by Bloomberg's "Everytown for Gun Safety") unless nighttime parking lot suicides by janitors, pellet guns shot a school buses with no injuries, etc. are counted as "school shootings"). They are totally full of shit and as one-sided and ideologically-driven as can be, which I'd have no problem with if I wasn't paying for their fucking propaganda with my tax dollars. Remind me again, why does the government fund these lying assholes? >:(
Hope everyone has a great weekend. :shaka:
Ben Shaprio went on also to debunk this fake news story and detailed what was reported. Like stated above, suicides, or random shots in glass windows while no students present or harmed. Stuff like that. Only 3 school shootings.
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http://www.staradvertiser.com/2018/02/16/hawaii-news/isle-lawmakers-move-a-bill-prohibiting-bump-stocks/?HSA=e1bd9072b301c1aa895a564440d55903e3d76029
The bill to ban the devices is backed by the Honolulu Police Department, Hawaii island Mayor Harry Kim, Americans for Democratic Action in Hawaii and a handful of other private individuals and law enforcement officials.
However, more than 100 people and organizations submitted testimony opposing the bill. Most argued that the measure would effectively outlaw legitimate shooting accessories other than bump stocks.
----------------------------------
LOL.... so no real support aside 1 mayor (out of 4), HPD (one PD out of 4), and a no name organization.
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LOL.... so no real support aside 1 mayor (out of 4), HPD (one PD out of 4), and a no name organization.
Are you insinuating that the long and storied history of the Americans for Socialist Democratic Action is insignificant? :rofl:
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Testimony will be due next Tuesday, Feb. 20, 2018, by 2 PM. The new amended version of the bill is below:
COMMITTEE ON CONSUMER PROTECTION & COMMERCE
Rep. Roy M. Takumi, Chair
Rep. Linda Ichiyama, Vice Chair
Rep. Henry J.C. Aquino
Rep. Calvin K.Y. Say
Rep. Ken Ito
Rep. James Kunane Tokioka
Rep. Aaron Ling Johanson
Rep. Ryan I. Yamane
Rep. Matthew S. LoPresti
Rep. Bob McDermott
Rep. John M. Mizuno
NOTICE OF HEARING
DATE:Wednesday, February 21, 2018
TIME:2:00 P.M.
PLACE:Conference Room 329
State Capitol
415 South Beretania Street
H.B. NO. 1908
TWENTY-NINTH LEGISLATURE, 2018
H.D. 1
STATE OF HAWAII
A BILL FOR AN ACT
RELATING TO FIREARMS.
BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF HAWAII:
SECTION 1. Chapter 134, Hawaii Revised Statutes, is amended by adding a new section to part I to be appropriately designated and to read as follows:
"§134- Multiburst trigger activator; prohibition. (a) Any person in this State who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the State, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any multiburst trigger activator shall be guilty of a class C felony.
(b) As used in this section, "multiburst trigger activator" means:
(1) A device that simulates automatic gunfire by allowing standard function of a semiautomatic firearm with a static positioned trigger finger or a device that fires multiple shots with the pull and release of the trigger; or
(2) A manual or power-driven trigger activating device constructed and designed so that when attached to a semiautomatic firearm it simulates automatic gunfire."
SECTION 2. New statutory material is underscored.
SECTION 3. This Act shall take effect upon its approval.
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nvm
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Testimony will be due next Tuesday, Feb. 20, 2018, by 2 PM. The new amended version of the bill is below:
Can you amend the title of your thread with the updated testimony due date so people know they should be submitting testimony again?
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nvm.
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Comments on if this is a good argument?
Removing law abiding citizens access to firearm accessories will do nothing to stop or deter criminals and their activities regarding weapons use. Instantly turning lawful citizens into felons because of owning certain property is in clear violation of the 4th and 5th amendments to the Constitution of the United States.
The 4th Amendment states:
“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”
The 5th Amendment further protects property, by stating:
“No person shall be … deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.”
Once again, oppose this bill and please consider working on bills that will actually prevent crimes and catching / incarcerating criminals.
Law abiding gun owners are not the problem in this state.
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I would've thought something along the lines of multiburst trigger activators have never been used in any crime, and probably never will be because they are cumbersome to use and ineffective regarding accuracy. not to mention their outrageous cost, relegating them to a novelty item and curiosity only.
or use 2nd amendment, that obviously has been seen to carry a lot of weight with our legislators.
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So lets say this passes and the Gov signs which it will and he will.
How do they notify people? They have no idea who has what.
One day you're legal and the next day your a felon?
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So lets say this passes and the Gov signs which it will and he will.
How do they notify people? They have no idea who has what.
One day you're legal and the next day your a felon?
Pretty much, yeah. Perhaps HPD would have a "grace" period, where you can surrender your "Multiburst trigger activator" without punishment.
Unfortunately, ignorance of the law isn't an excuse that will stand up in court, no matter how asinine the law ::)
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So glad I am leaving this Marxist state and never to return.
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So lets say this passes and the Gov signs which it will and he will.
How do they notify people? They have no idea who has what.
One day you're legal and the next day your a felon?
That's the way (uh huh,uh huh?) they like it. The more people who are "unknowingly" criminals, the more people who can be "removed" from any potential "resistance" should things ever approach "ugly". And thanks to our universal registration they know where all the objects are that could have "devices" attached to them, in case they want to "check".
And just because a law is totally unenforceable is no reason, in their (and i use the word charitably) minds, to not enact it. Minor detail. Like the minor detail that one can "simulate automatic gunfire" without any device at all. I'm sure once this law passes and is enacted that any criminal intent on harming/killing people by firing a semi-auto rifle will obey this law and not use the device-less bump fire technique, because, you know, that would be illegal. (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/images/smilies/facepalm.gif)
That and the fact that they are liars. Like in the Young v Hawaii Attorney General's amicus brief wherein the AG claims that people can carry guns... like when they move from one residence to another. Of course the gun has to be unloaded and in an enclosed container (thus making it useless for the core purpose of the Second Amendment which SCOTUS ruled is self-defense in case of confrontation), but the AG doesn't mention that fact... that's "carry" to them. I'm sure that's what the founders had in mind when they wrote "bear arms".
There is no end to stupid. And there is no end to evil.
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A simple felony conviction because of a legislature passing some inane specific small law can affect someone for their entire lives.
Reckless to say the least.
Meanwhile crazy people wander the street and crazy people walk out of mental institutions and fly all the way to California.
Hawaii the place where nothing gets solved because they criminalize the innocent.
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Cross posting here. Below is my testimony, you can use it for ideas if you wish.. Heavies went the constitutional route, I went with the route that under the vague description of the law, you're pretty much ensuring everyone is a potential felon.
---------------------
I am a law-abiding Hawaii gun owner, and I urge you to oppose House Bill 1908. I know there are many other hawaii gun owners that feel strongly against this bill as well.
Automatic weaponry is already illegal under existing state and federal law. A new law that expands on it would only serve to ensnare legal gun owners
"Attorney General Doug Chin opined they already are banned under existing Hawaii law that prohibits modifying firearms to convert them into automatic weapons."
Criminals will buy these devices on the black market easily if they wish, and do not care about any laws prohibiting such devices, and ensnaring legal gun owners.
My guess is that the authors of this bill aren't firearms owners, and therefore do not realize that there are many techniques used to "simulate automatic fire" that don't require the usage of any special devices. Below is a video of someone demonstrating how to use the bump stock technique with a standard BELT LOOP. You can use rubber bands, belt buckles, straps, makeshift home devices, pretty much ANYTHING that makes use of the motion of the recoil of to activate the trigger.
Is this bill banning pants with belt loops, belt buckles, rubber bands, holsters, and everything else that can "simulates automatic gunfire by allowing standard function of a semiautomatic firearm with a static positioned trigger finger or a device that fires multiple shots with the pull and release of the trigger;"? I assure you, those devices are many, and this bill creates potential felons out of a lot of people for no reason.
Once again, please oppose this bill and please consider working on bills that will actually prevent crimes and catching / incarcerating criminals and not designed to ensnare law abiding citizens with more restrictions and subject to vague laws open to interpretation by law enforcement. As it stands, if this law went into effect, HPD could walk down the line at the range, and arrest 99/100 people there because they possess a " multiburst trigger activator" on their pants in the form of belt loops or belt buckles.
Law abiding gun owners are not the problem in this state.
Again, as a fellow Hawaii resident, I urge you to oppose House Bill 1908.
Modify message
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Reminder to submit testimony today
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Is this now a moot point seeing as Trump has issued a memo to "ban all devices" like bump stocks?
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
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Is this now a moot point seeing as Trump has issued a memo to "ban all devices" like bump stocks?
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
Not final yet.
"Just a few moments ago I signed a memo directing the attorney general to propose regulations that ban all
devices that turn legal weapons into machine guns," Trump said at a Medal of Valor event at the White House,
addressing Attorney General Jeff Sessions.
"I expect these regulations to be finalized, Jeff, very soon," Trump said.
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Not final yet.
Quote
"Just a few moments ago I signed a memo directing the attorney general to propose regulations that ban all
devices that turn legal weapons into machine guns," Trump said at a Medal of Valor event at the White House,
addressing Attorney General Jeff Sessions.
"I expect these regulations to be finalized, Jeff, very soon," Trump said.
I'm guessing he either misspoke or just doesn't know the proper terminology, because most "devices" that allow for an increased rate of fire (things that facilitate bumpfiring) don't "turn legal weapons into machine guns" (a machine gun fire's more than one round per trigger pull). Someone should tell him. Maybe he's trolling.
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Trump knows what he's doing and saying. He is using the terminology that gun haters use and want to heaer. In the end, I don't expect any bump stock ban on the federal level because it has been tried twice before and were unsuccessful. He's trolling.
Sessions is probably looking into it, but will fail again like the ATF has.
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^
They'll look at it, then punt the ball to the ATF, who will punt the ball back to lawmakers. They already went through this circus act right after the vegas attack. I agree, Trump is trolling them. Short of legislative or SCOTUS action, nothing will happen.
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Submitted! Growing up I used to shoot a Tec-22 with a hellfire trigger as a kid...so much fun. I hope my kids get to experience the same.
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Done. I already submitted on 2/7 for HB 1908 and now this is HB 1908 HD1. I guess if they don't like the response they got the first time, they'll just delay and try again until they get the responses they like.
Overwhelmingly oppose in the first try. I guess that's why they had to try it again. The support testimony is at the front. https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/Session2018/Testimony/HB1908_TESTIMONY_JUD_02-13-18_.PDF
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Done. I already submitted on 2/7 for HB 1908 and now this is HB 1908 HD1. I guess if they don't like the response they got the first time, they'll just delay and try again until they get the responses they like.
Oh, they got the response they liked the first time... what was it? 6 FOR, 120 OPPOSED... passed it either unanimously or unanimously minus 1 (forgive me, all the bills and committees and votes are a bit jumbled at the moment). It's obviously not a matter of them liking or disliking the testimony, it's just them putting on a dog and pony show so they can say they "held hearings" and "took testimony from the public" before they enact and impose their done-deal diktat. It's a joke. I'm not sure why I bother. And this bill's language is still a pile of garbage. No matter how many times they try to "refine" the language, no matter what they do it won't have any impact at all on crime, only on law-abiding citizens... but what else is new in the world of "commonsense gun safety regulation" by the citizen disarmament cabal?
Oh, and I had mentioned in some thread that there was no video available of several of the committee hearings where these legislators said, or didn't say, why they voted the way they did, nor what the intended impact of the bill was. It's a mystery unless you were there in the room. Now this (read it and weep):
http://www.civilbeat.org/2018/02/the-only-three-legislative-committees-youll-almost-never-see-on-tv/
The Only Three Legislative Committees You’ll Almost Never See On TV
Despite the difficulties of attending legislative hearings in person in Hawaii these House committee chairs have nixed televising their hearings.
The House Finance, Judiciary and Transportation committees have taken action on dozens of bills since the legislative session began in January. Just last week, the committees passed or killed measures ranging from taxing real estate investment trusts to increasing fines for campaign finance violations to cracking down on drunken driving.
But if you weren’t at their hearings, you wouldn’t have been able to see what they were doing. None of the oral testimony, none of the questions, none of the decision-making.
That’s because the chairs of these committees — Reps. Sylvia Luke, Scott Nishimoto and Henry Aquino, respectively — refuse to allow their hearings to be broadcast on public-access TV stations such as Olelo.
* * * * *
Also, I wrote all the committee members with some brief factual information and asked them to please respond to me with how they intended to vote and why. And, yes, I included "*****Response Requested*****" in the subject line of the email. It's 48 hours later... haven't heard a peep from a single one of them except the one who was too dense to actually read my email and said to write to the sponsors of the bill... you asshat, I don't need to talk to them, I wrote you as a member of the committee that will be voting on the bill in the next few days... JFC!! :crazy:
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Looks like 3 for, 115 against?
Wow, some of you guys posed some really good arguments in the testimony. I'm really impressed.
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Looks like 3 for, 115 against?
Wow, some of you guys posed some really good arguments in the testimony. I'm really impressed.
I have a feeling there may be slightly more opposition this time.
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I have a feeling there may be slightly more opposition this time.
Sounds like it. Guess I didn't mention that was for the first go-around. You guys did good work at the range I imagine. :thumbsup:
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hmmm, submitted testimony on 2/16 but it was not included (I can see it under my log in, just not in the testimony PDF)
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hmmm, submitted testimony on 2/16 but it was not included (I can see it under my log in, just not in the testimony PDF)
testimony .pdf is for the earlier committee meeting
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35 minutes after the committee hearing scheduled to begin: No testimony posted.
No audio or video available.
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Testimony posted at 2:38... 318 pages... I won't have a tabulation of the FOR and OPPOSED for a while... (they just added more.... now 380 pages!)
If anyone at the meeting can give us an update when they get to HB1908 HD1, please do so... :shaka:
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I learned something new from the testimony that the media has apparently been hiding from the public:
I am in strong support of HB 1908 to ban the use of a bump stock which has caused massacre in several states including horrific mass shooting in a school in Florida last week.
Raj Kumar, Ph. D., President
Gandhi International Institute for Peace
* * * * *
I have to wonder how Raj got that information given that the all-powerful NRA paid millions to keep it under the rug.... oh, wait, no the NRA doesn't care about bump stocks... musta been GOA paying to keep it under wraps.
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Do they not include your testimony if you previously submitted testimony from the first hearing?
Just went through ALL 380 of of them and did not find mine.
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Rough count (got kinda dizzy fast scrolling through 380 pages...)
FOR 55
OPPOSED 287
Ratio: 5.2:1 OPPOSED
A LOT of testimony from what I assume was the range tablers ( :shaka:).
There was quite a bit of what seemed to be some kind of organized support FOR the bill by individuals, of whom all but two seemed (by their names) to be women. Wondering if some teachers union or hospital nurses union or League of Women Voters got involved.
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Do they not include your testimony if you previously submitted testimony from the first hearing?
Just went through ALL 380 of of them and did not find mine.
WHOOPS... never mind. I found it. :D
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Do they not include your testimony if you previously submitted testimony from the first hearing?
Just went through ALL 380 of of them and did not find mine.
This is a totally separate event and all testimony is separate. Maybe yours is in the late LATE?
EDIT:
WHOOPS... never mind. You found it. :D
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There was quite a bit of what seemed to be some kind of organized support FOR the bill by individuals, of whom all but two seemed (by their names) to be women. Wondering if some teachers union or hospital nurses union or League of Women Voters got involved.
Supporters have been posting it up on their Facebook opposition pages due to the Florida shootings. I expect there to be much more next time. Wouldn't be surprised if they got one or two hundred supporting testimony.
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sounds like they passed it, with amendments to specifically name bump stocks and trigger cranks only
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Just called Takumi's office. Amended version won't be up online for 2 to 3 days.
PASSED THE COMMITTEE BY UNANIMOUS VOTE!
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HB 1908 with amendments to specifically target bump stocks and “cranks” gets signed.
SB 2046 remains un-amended and BROAD with trigger modifications and gets signed.
Can this happen? How would it be possible?
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HB 1908 with amendments to specifically target bump stocks and “cranks” gets signed.
SB 2046 remains un-amended and BROAD with trigger modifications and gets signed.
Can this happen? How would it be possible?
SB2046 has not been passed
it needs to be heard in the senate judiciary committee by Friday march 2 to proceed
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SB2046 has not been passed
it needs to be heard in the senate judiciary committee by Friday march 2 to proceed
and house bill 1908 has not passed either
it needs to be voted upon by the full house next
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HB 1908 with amendments to specifically target bump stocks and “cranks” gets signed.
SB 2046 remains un-amended and BROAD with trigger modifications and gets signed.
Can this happen? How would it be possible?
oh, you are asking IF it could happen?
no, there will be a conference committee to decide which version they will go with
and this occurs OUTSIDE OF PUBLIC TESTIMONY
WE STILL NEED TO HIT SB 2046 HARD
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Just called Takumi's office. Amended version won't be up online for 2 to 3 days.
PASSED THE COMMITTEE BY UNANIMOUS VOTE!
Done wasting my time with testimony and contacting the legislation. I'm even more frustrated that my taxes are wasted on a mechanism to give testimony that has no bearing on the legislators. I doubt they read any of it since they cant even bother to show up for meetings or respond to messages.
But Im not surprised. it was the same in Oregon.
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Just posted, just so you know I'm not making it up. I suppose the people on there with NRA "A" ratings got cover since the NRA seems to be advocating for the same thing anyway, as long as the language is not "over broad".
2/21/2018 H The committees on CPC recommend that the measure be PASSED, WITH AMENDMENTS. The votes were as follows: 11 Ayes: Representative(s) Takumi, Ichiyama, Aquino, Ito, Johanson, LoPresti, Mizuno, Say, Tokioka, Yamane, McDermott; Ayes with reservations: none; Noes: none; and Excused: none.
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Done wasting my time with testimony and contacting the legislation. I'm even more frustrated that my taxes are wasted on a mechanism to give testimony that has no bearing on the legislators. I doubt they read any of it since they cant even bother to show up for meetings or respond to messages.
But Im not surprised. it was the same in Oregon.
I understand. Almost makes ya wonder what the hell is really going on down there... :crazy: :rofl: :wtf:
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Just posted, just so you know I'm not making it up. I suppose the people on there with NRA "A" ratings got cover since the NRA seems to be advocating for the same thing anyway, as long as the language is not "over broad".
2/21/2018 H The committees on CPC recommend that the measure be PASSED, WITH AMENDMENTS. The votes were as follows: 11 Ayes: Representative(s) Takumi, Ichiyama, Aquino, Ito, Johanson, LoPresti, Mizuno, Say, Tokioka, Yamane, McDermott; Ayes with reservations: none; Noes: none; and Excused: none.
the As are on our side, I know a few personally...
oh, wait, never mind
punaperson not gonna listen to my viewpoint, please disregard
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the As are on our side, I know a few personally...
Didn't seem to make a difference, again.
But, we knew some version of this idiocy would get passed, especially after Florida.
If for no other reason than to quiet the squealing of the Tide Pod Eaters.
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the As are on our side, I know a few personally...
oh, wait, never mind
punaperson not gonna listen to my viewpoint, please disregard
No, I'm listening. Explain it to me.
What does an NRA "A" rating mean? And how does voting for this bill comport with that meaning?
From the NRA:
An NRA "A+" candidate is one who has "not only an excellent voting record on all critical NRA issues, but who has also made a vigorous effort to promote and defend the Second Amendment"
We also consider a candidate’s other actions, both public and behind the scenes, such as pushing for votes on critical bills or lobbying colleagues.
......
So do you have some "inside information" that any of these A-rated people were (unsuccessfully) pushing the committee chairs to hold hearings on SB2066, SB2067, and/or SB2068 or any other pro-rights bills in either chamber? If not, what DID they do?
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No, I'm listening. Explain it to me.
What does an NRA "A" rating mean? And how does voting for this bill comport with that meaning?
From the NRA:
An NRA "A+" candidate is one who has "not only an excellent voting record on all critical NRA issues, but who has also made a vigorous effort to promote and defend the Second Amendment"
We also consider a candidate’s other actions, both public and behind the scenes, such as pushing for votes on critical bills or lobbying colleagues.
......
So do you have some "inside information" that any of these A-rated people were (unsuccessfully) pushing the committee chairs to hold hearings on SB2066, SB2067, and/or SB2068 or any other pro-rights bills in either chamber? If not, what DID they do?
Now, now, I'm sure they have a good excuse, and there's no doubt in my mind they said "UHH" and "UMMM" a lot.
You wouldn't want them t risk their re election chances over principles would you?
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Completely over it....
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oh, you are asking IF it could happen?
no, there will be a conference committee to decide which version they will go with
and this occurs OUTSIDE OF PUBLIC TESTIMONY
WE STILL NEED TO HIT SB 2046 HARD
Bingo. Thanks, already waiting for the next hearing.
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Cool story bro.
Dosent ban bump stocks tho.
You dont need a device to bump fire a semi automatic rifle. its a function of how they work.
Therefore the device does not ALLOW in the firing it assists in the firing.
AS SUCH this law does not ban bump stocks.
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I don't like the outcome but IMO the outcome was inevitable and predictable no matter how many opposed it, unless it was thousands. After all, Hawaii is an extremely liberal state and the state legislators were already posturing and ready to pass some type of anti-gun legislation after Vegas, and surely with another mass shooting occurring shortly after in Florida, they were hell-bent on passing some type of anti-gun legislation. There is almost no way they would not jump on the same anti-gun bandwagon along side with the other liberal anti-gun states. That would be almost inconceivable for our legislators.
It's done and there is nothing we can do except gear up for their next ridiculous attempt to further infringe on our 2a rights. With the two recent mass shootings, at this point, holding off further attempts would be a win.
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Done wasting my time with testimony and contacting the legislation. I'm even more frustrated that my taxes are wasted on a mechanism to give testimony that has no bearing on the legislators. I doubt they read any of it since they cant even bother to show up for meetings or respond to messages.
But Im not surprised. it was the same in Oregon.
Consider this, at the least please submit a testimony with a token oppose.
These bills are likely passing out of committee because the committee members don't want to seem like the "bad guy" by being 1 out of a handful of people to vote it down in the wake of 2 publicized shootings. Instead, they'll kick the bill to the full house/senate to make everyone else put some skin in the game if they're going to take the testimony into consideration. Many of the lawmakers love to posture and win brownie points with voters, and dont really care about issues outside of their own political gain. They're all chameleons and snakes, but perhaps some of them would see the light because of the overwhelming opposition.
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All the lawmakers also know that both Trump and the NRA do not support these devices, in fact they both support a ban or in Trump's case to look into a ban, so there is no real opposition, other than public testimony.
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Done wasting my time with testimony and contacting the legislation. I'm even more frustrated that my taxes are wasted on a mechanism to give testimony that has no bearing on the legislators. I doubt they read any of it since they cant even bother to show up for meetings or respond to messages.
This is the desired effect. What you are saying is that they win and because of a little frustration with the process you are willing to give up rather then stand for what you believe. It's no coincidence things are organized the way they are. They know exactly how far they can push someone before people start to call it quits. The reason Hawaii voters are so apathetic is that we've been trained.
I highly recommend that if you plan on following your apathy to it's logical conclusion then do it in private. There are plenty of others who are willing to continue to fight despite the challenges, and they don't need you carrying the banner for the enemy.
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If we need to give them one. Give 'em HB 1908 and not SB 2046.
I know you pipe dream guys are saying don't give them anything.
Real world. They need something. And we can't stop 'em.
1908 is way better than 2046.
Rhetoric commence.
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If we need to give them one. Give 'em HB 1908 and not SB 2046.
I know you pipe dream guys are saying don't give them anything.
Real world. They need something. And we can't stop 'em.
1908 is way better than 2046.
Rhetoric commence.
We need to keep up the fight and pressure, and not give up. We need to also work extra hard to get as many of these incumbents displaced as we can!
This legislation is just the tip of the iceberg in crazy do nothing anti gun legislation.
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If we need to give them one. Give 'em HB 1908 and not SB 2046.
I know you pipe dream guys are saying don't give them anything.
Real world. They need something. And we can't stop 'em.
1908 is way better than 2046.
Rhetoric commence.
How sad is it when asking/expecting/demanding the government and "public servants" who have sworn an oath to uphold the founding supreme legal documents of the country and state to abide by that law is considered a "pipe dream"?
[Hint: Really really sad.]
/Rhetoric.
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the As are on our side, I know a few personally...
oh, wait, never mind
punaperson not gonna listen to my viewpoint, please disregard
"I absolutely believe that in this country if you are 18 years of age, you should not be able to buy a rifle, and I will support a law that takes that right away," Rubio said at CNN's town hall in Florida.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/21/politics/marco-rubio-gun-town-hall/index.html
If that doesn't merit "the highest attainable 'A+' rating from the NRA," nothing does.
https://www.nraila.org/articles/20160707/nra-endorses-marco-rubio-for-us-senate
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This is the desired effect. What you are saying is that they win and because of a little frustration with the process you are willing to give up rather then stand for what you believe. It's no coincidence things are organized the way they are. They know exactly how far they can push someone before people start to call it quits. The reason Hawaii voters are so apathetic is that we've been trained.
I highly recommend that if you plan on following your apathy to it's logical conclusion then do it in private. There are plenty of others who are willing to continue to fight despite the challenges, and they don't need you carrying the banner for the enemy.
Been fighting for years in Oregon before I came here. Ran a recall campaign with a lot of my own money only to be sabotaged by republicans and watched Bloomberg dump money into fighting us and winning. The republicans threatened to blacklist someone who wanted to help us (he still did in secret). Had the NRA offer help and then delay and delay and then end up doing nothing which only hurt our efforts. Then watched the oregon secretary of state torpedo another recall campaign by only hand picking a small percentage of petitions and then deciding the outcome based on them after Bloomberg's constant blockage of the effort. He paid people to spy on the petition gatherers. He had someone try to infiltrate our meetings and steal our blank petitions and take pictures of signed forms. Had legislators take away the C&R FFL license in oregon to hurt gun owners but at least there they had the guts to tell me why they were doing it, Had fellow physician who was a state legislator lie to me so as to not do anything about the C&R FFL.
So no, its not a "little frustration." But I will try and limit my comments that the process is all rigged and emailing reps does nothing.(sorry it is)
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So no, its not a "little frustration."
That's definitely an uncommon amount of commitment you've made and I thank you for your efforts even though it wasn't in this state and didn't affect me directly at the time.
It does affect me as far as the intriguing story you just told. How often do we have a chance to peer behind the curtain and see how things really work? Your shared experience is extremely valuable not only because it informs us but there are probably plenty of other people out there who've had a similar experience and would love to join forces if they thought it was possible to make a difference.
People seem to get hung up on the idea of a once-and-for-all victory. Only very rarely does such an opportunity present itself, and far more important (especially in our position) is to learn the strategy of snatching victory from the jaws of defeat. Everything you do has an influence that goes far beyond what you are aware of in ways that you can't possibly understand. Maybe the next time someone tries to go up against the system they will be inspired by and learn from your efforts and manage to find victory, or at least inspire someone else that eventually does. Or maybe those politicians and organization leaders build their bad reputations to the point where they are unceremoniously dumped from their positions one day, freeing up resources and channels that were never anticipated.
Thanks for sharing and rest well knowing that you did make a difference after all!
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HB 1908 report w/"narrowed" verbiage:
Your Committee has amended this measure by narrowly defining "multiburst trigger activator" to include bump stocks and binary or echo trigger groups without inadvertently targeting simple trigger modifications that improve the performance or safety of firearms.
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2018/CommReports/HB1908_HD1_HSCR597-18_.htm
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HB 1908 AMENDMENTS POSTED:
Your Committee has amended this measure by narrowly defining "multiburst trigger activator" to include bump stocks and binary or echo trigger groups without inadvertently targeting simple trigger modifications that improve the performance or safety of firearms.
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2018/CommReports/HB1908_HD1_HSCR597-18_.htm
No, that's the report from JUD (Nishimoto chair) from last week on 2/13. The "new version" will be HB1908 HD2. I was told "2 to 3 days" by CPC committee chair Talkumi's office from the 2/21 hearing... if true, today or Monday.
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At the next town hall, someone should ask if a bill being proposed gets a 5 support and 100+ oppose, do they think the bill should go through to the next level? Then after the answer, tell them how come 1908 & 2046 passed. If they say yes it should still go, then ask at what number of oppose to support will be needed so a bill doesn't go on?
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At the next town hall, someone should ask if a bill being proposed gets a 5 support and 100+ oppose, do they think the bill should go through to the next level? Then after the answer, tell them how come 1908 & 2046 passed. If they say yes it should still go, then ask at what number of oppose to support will be needed so a bill doesn't go on?
"This is not a democracy. This is a representative republic. If the public overwhelmingly supported the re-institution of slavery or "separate but equal" policies, or opposed "a woman's right to choose", or "equal rights to marriage by any two humans" it would be my ethical duty to vote for the rights of all people even if the majority opposed granting those people rights. Our system is not a democracy precisely to avoid a "tyranny of the majority". Now, as for banning bumpstocks, standard capacity handgun magazines, stun guns, the right to bear arms in public for self-defense, etc., and requiring people to register, be fingerprinted, photographed, and relinquish their right to privacy of medical records in order to exercise their right to keep and bear arms, etc., well, that's simple: "public safety"." Over and out.
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That's definitely an uncommon amount of commitment you've made and I thank you for your efforts even though it wasn't in this state and didn't affect me directly at the time.
It does affect me as far as the intriguing story you just told. How often do we have a chance to peer behind the curtain and see how things really work? Your shared experience is extremely valuable not only because it informs us but there are probably plenty of other people out there who've had a similar experience and would love to join forces if they thought it was possible to make a difference.
People seem to get hung up on the idea of a once-and-for-all victory. Only very rarely does such an opportunity present itself, and far more important (especially in our position) is to learn the strategy of snatching victory from the jaws of defeat. Everything you do has an influence that goes far beyond what you are aware of in ways that you can't possibly understand. Maybe the next time someone tries to go up against the system they will be inspired by and learn from your efforts and manage to find victory, or at least inspire someone else that eventually does. Or maybe those politicians and organization leaders build their bad reputations to the point where they are unceremoniously dumped from their positions one day, freeing up resources and channels that were never anticipated.
Thanks for sharing and rest well knowing that you did make a difference after all!
Thanks, I'm just venting because I told myself to not get involved again and here I am involved again and just as frustrating. I think if people only knew how really broken the system is there would be a revolution. Seeing it from the inside it was much worse than you think. Like George Carlin said (I think): "If voting mattered they would not let us do it"
But I will keep up support. I very much hope we get a public range on the big island because my volunteer efforts getting one made outside of Portland was so much more satisfying than trying to get a creep legislator recalled.
Im seeing someone on Monday to give them a mental health clearance letter because no one on their island will do it. Their story about the firearm permit denial is a terrible injustice the state has done to them. But at least I have the power to fix it for that one person.
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I take this amendment that more narrowly defines what they're banning as a partial win. Without everyone's support, it undoubtably would have passe as originally worded... which can be interpreted as up to everyone in the state being a criminal. You can bumpfire a rifle with pants with belt loops, therefore those are "multiburst trigger activators". The lawmakers obviously want to pass SOMETHING to win re election brownie points. But are taking note of the overwhelming opposition, so continually redefine the bill.
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Has anyone ever wondered if we're being played by our reps? Submit 1 really bad one so that we choose the lesser of 2 evils? But only works in this blue state. In a pro 2a state, all bills would be shut down.
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No, that's the report from JUD (Nishimoto chair) from last week on 2/13. The "new version" will be HB1908 HD2. I was told "2 to 3 days" by CPC committee chair Talkumi's office from the 2/21 hearing... if true, today or Monday.
Oops. thanks for the clarification!
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While waiting for the new amended version of HB1908, HD2, to be released to the public, likely tomorrow, I have to wonder what the changes will actually be.
The report on the 2/13 JUD committee amendment declared that it "has amended this measure by narrowly defining "multiburst trigger activator" to include bump stocks and binary or echo trigger groups without inadvertently targeting simple trigger modifications that improve the performance or safety of firearms." All it really did was substitute the "mimics automatic gunfire" phrase for the "burst of fire" phrase. That was obviously not "narrowly defining" anything at all. How hard would it have been, if their goal was really to "narrowly defining "multiburst trigger activator" to include bump stocks and binary or echo trigger groups" to amend the bill to literally ban "bump stocks and binary or echo trigger groups"? The thing is nonsensical on it's face. Given that the anecdotal reports about the newly amended HD2 by CPC are that they are going to "narrowly define" bumpstocks and echo trigger groups AGAIN, I have to wonder.
I guess I'll find out tomorrow. I'm not expecting much "narrowing". I hope I'm wrong. :crazy:
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Just called Takumi's office (chair of CPC that voted to amend the bill on 2/21) to ask about the newly amended version that isn't posted yet, and had been told on the 21st that it would be "2 to 3 days". Called (4:30PM) today, the third business day and was told they don't have it back yet, "it's complicated", and will probably be "2 or 3 more days".
How "complicated" could it be to make it clear that the bill only applies to bumpstocks and trigger cranks? Wouldn't that be something like "possessing bumpstocks or trigger cranks is illegal"? Of course that's what they said they were going to do in the JUD committee too, and they did nothing of the kind, not even remotely. ???
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Okay, it's 10 days now since the committee meeting on the 21st and when I was told the amended version of the bill would be up in "2 to 3 days". It's the fifth day since I called on the 26th and was told "2 to 3 days". Nothing. That must be some amendment!
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Okay, it's 10 days now since the committee meeting on the 21st and when I was told the amended version of the bill would be up in "2 to 3 days". It's the fifth day since I called on the 26th and was told "2 to 3 days". Nothing. That must be some amendment!
I wouldn't be surprised if they copied and pasted the federal assault weapons ban to it.
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I wouldn't be surprised if they copied and pasted the federal assault weapons ban to it.
LOL! (literally!) Gosh, I really hate to see that cynicism (reality?) coming from the guy that voluntarily spends his days in the bowel of the beast. That's scary. :shaka:
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I wouldn't be surprised if they copied and pasted the federal assault weapons ban to it.
If they did, then there would be a higher percentage of a lawsuit. Because that fed bill makes all guns illegal, but has a grandfather clause.
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The new language of HB1908, HD2 just posted. We'll see later if the senate SB2046 really does copy this language.
SECTION 1. Chapter 134, Hawaii Revised Statutes, is amended by adding a new section to part I to be appropriately designated and to read as follows:
"§134- Bump fire stock, multiburst trigger activator, or trigger crank; prohibition. (a) Any person in this State who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the State, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any bump fire stock, multiburst trigger activator, or trigger crank shall be guilty of a class C felony.
(b) As used in this section:
"Bump fire stock" means a butt stock designed to be attached to a semiautomatic firearm and designed, made, or altered to increase the rate of fire achievable with such firearm by using energy from the recoil of the firearm to generate a reciprocating action that facilitates repeated activation of the trigger.
"Multiburst trigger activator" means:
(1) A device that simulates automatic gunfire by allowing standard function of a semiautomatic firearm with a static positioned trigger finger or a device that fires multiple shots with the pull and release of the trigger; or
(2) A manual or power-driven trigger activating device constructed and designed so that when attached to a semiautomatic firearm it simulates automatic gunfire.
"Trigger crank" means any device to be attached to a semiautomatic firearm that repeatedly activates the trigger of the firearm through the use of a lever or other part that is turned in a circular motion, but does not include any firearm initially designed and manufactured to fire through the use of a crank or lever."
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At least this bill sounds a whole lot better than the original 2046 "anything that can increase the rate of fire".
IDK if I call this a win, but it could have ended way worst.
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At least this bill sounds a whole lot better than the original 2046 "anything that can increase the rate of fire".
IDK if I call this a win, but it could have ended way worst.
Yeah, it sounds a lot better. Still, anything that limits rights is not a "win" in reality, although I do agree with you.
#1 of their "multiburst trigger activator" sounds like it's defining a multiple round burst, which is automatic fire.... One pull and release of trigger, multiple rounds per trigger pull.
So they're banning bump stocks, binary triggers, and any devices that would fire multiple rounds per trigger pull (which I'm not sure exists, except for automatic weapons). Even bump fire stocks and binary triggers are activating the trigger multiple times, hence legal even with the pre 1986 automatic weapon ban.
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The new language of HB1908, HD2 just posted. We'll see later if the senate SB2046 really does copy this language.
SECTION 1. Chapter 134, Hawaii Revised Statutes, is amended by adding a new section to part I to be appropriately designated and to read as follows:
"§134- Bump fire stock, multiburst trigger activator, or trigger crank; prohibition. (a) Any person in this State who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the State, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any bump fire stock, multiburst trigger activator, or trigger crank shall be guilty of a class C felony.
(b) As used in this section:
"Bump fire stock" means a butt stock designed to be attached to a semiautomatic firearm and designed, made, or altered to increase the rate of fire achievable with such firearm by using energy from the recoil of the firearm to generate a reciprocating action that facilitates repeated activation of the trigger.
"Multiburst trigger activator" means:
(1) A device that simulates automatic gunfire by allowing standard function of a semiautomatic firearm with a static positioned trigger finger or a device that fires multiple shots with the pull and release of the trigger; or
(2) A manual or power-driven trigger activating device constructed and designed so that when attached to a semiautomatic firearm it simulates automatic gunfire.
"Trigger crank" means any device to be attached to a semiautomatic firearm that repeatedly activates the trigger of the firearm through the use of a lever or other part that is turned in a circular motion, but does not include any firearm initially designed and manufactured to fire through the use of a crank or lever."
So when the Gov signs this I am guilty of a felony. Good job Hawaii. Criminalizing model citizens one law at a time. 27 year active duty military is now considered a felon.
What a shitshow state.
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So when the Gov signs this I am guilty of a felony. Good job Hawaii. Criminalizing model citizens one law at a time. 27 year active duty military is now considered a felon.
What a shitshow state.
“Did you really think we want those laws observed?" said Dr. Ferris.
"We want them to be broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against, we're after power and we mean it... There's no way to rule innocent men, the only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them, one declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.
Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone?
But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers and then you cash in on guilt.
Now that's the system, Mr. Reardon, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with.”
-Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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One citizen, one device on one weapon, from another state in turn criminalizes I would say roughly 150 people into felons overnight.
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Still issue with the words, wouldn't tell "them" anything more. Since "they" don't know WTF they are talking about, and refuse to learn or have a logical conversation on the issue, F them.. JMHO
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so I guess, this is the way it is now. Every year now we have to "give them something". So be it.
So, for next year, what will it be? Let's plan ahead. Look around you, at your shooting buddies, your fellow 2A members, who do we throw under the bus for next year? Who do we sacrifice next year? which of these persons that we don't really have anything against personally, who do we decide to adversely affect, just to save "myself", just because "I don't have any of those" so it won't affect me, I can live without that?
10-round rifle mag limit? 5-round rifle mag limit? bullet-button? feature-less stocks? flash hiders? pistol grips? bayo lugs? no collapsible stocks? ammo tax? ammo permit? pistol/rifle threaded barrels? no .50/.500 cal?
just MHO is some of the verbiage in the revised HB1908 came from a supposed "OPPOSE" testimony, I could be wrong on that though.
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just MHO is some of the verbiage in the revised HB1908 came from a supposed "OPPOSE" testimony, I could be wrong on that though.
Its true, the verbage change came from the 2a community and organizations. I see it as an insurance policy in the event the bill becomes law. Realistically the bump stock ban will pass unless we got thousands of people to not only submit testimony, but to actively help out.
I'm going to try my best to get us there, but we're not there now.
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well, for next years insurance policy, what sacrificial lamb will we be throwing under the bus? the dude from Kalihi? the gal from Waipahu? the other guy from Waimanalo? the filipino guy from Waialua?
somehow, there's more than just Bump Stocks in the Bump Stock bill. If it was only Bump Stocks, then it'd only be the guy from, say, Wahiawa (no worry, just made that up).
That's the point. This affects ordinary law-abiding citizens, tax payers, upstanding neighbors, who go to work, and make tough decisions on where to spend their hard-earned pay, and somebody suggests as an insurance policy to criminalize them.
I guess it's better to be on the bus, than under the bus, although you gotta watch out for your team mates because you might just become the insurance policy at the next bus stop.
Eh, no worries, I submitted testimony up the ying yang and out the wazoo. You can count me in on that group effort. and even was civil and polite at that, but that took some effort, but never, ever suggested criminalizing my law-abiding gun-owning fellow citizen.
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Thanks for the support with testimony. Its going to be a long hard road to get where we want to be to win stuff like this. I'm hoping in a few years we'll be able to effectively counter small stuff like this.
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H 3/2/2018: Forty-eight (48) hours notice Tuesday, 03-06-18.
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2018/bills/HB1908_HD2_.pdf
HB1908 HD2 Prohibited; Bump Fire Stocks; Multiburst Trigger Activators; Trigger Cranks; Firearm
RELATING TO FIREARMS. Prohibits manufacture, importation, sale, transfer, and possession of bump fire stocks, multiburst trigger activators, and trigger cranks. (HB1908 HD2)
Oppose. TAKAYAMA, CREAGAN, DECOITE, GATES, ING, KEOHOKALOLE, LOPRESTI, LOWEN, NISHIMOTO, SAY JUD, CPC
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3/6/2018 H Passed Third Reading as amended in HD 2 with none voting aye with reservations; none voting no (0) and Representative(s) Woodson excused (1). Transmitted to Senate.
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Thanks for the support with testimony. Its going to be a long hard road to get where we want to be to win stuff like this. I'm hoping in a few years we'll be able to effectively counter small stuff like this.
Sorry if I didn't notice it earlier, but did the bill with idiotic 48 hour notice of "voluntary confiscation" get rejected?
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No it was on the news tonight. They extended it to 7 days and sent it back to the House.
Honestly that's probably the more dangerous of the two.
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3 Anti-2A Bills crossed over yesterday. HB1908, SB2046, SB2436
H 3/6/2018: Passed Third Reading as amended in HD 2 with none voting aye with reservations; none voting no (0) and Representative(s) Woodson excused (1). Transmitted to Senate.
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2018/bills/HB1908_HD2_.pdf
HB1908 HD2 Prohibited; Bump Fire Stocks; Multiburst Trigger Activators; Trigger Cranks; Firearm
RELATING TO FIREARMS. Prohibits manufacture, importation, sale, transfer, and possession of bump fire stocks, multiburst trigger activators, and trigger cranks. (HB1908 HD2)
Oppose. TAKAYAMA, CREAGAN, DECOITE, GATES, ING, KEOHOKALOLE, LOPRESTI, LOWEN, NISHIMOTO, SAY JUD, CPC
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No it was on the news tonight. They extended it to 7 days and sent it back to the House.
Honestly that's probably the more dangerous of the two.
god dammit :grrr:
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And it takes 14 days to get a permit so the "lucky guy" can't even legally transfer to another person in the PRHi, unless its a long gun and the transferee has a permit in hand. So its De Facto confiscation.
I'm so glad our "representatives" listen to the constituents. :grrr:
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I would imagine not all people who end up in the situation of having their firearms taken are bad apples and with that premise, hypothetically, if the firearms are in a trust, would/could the firearms remain in the trust with, lets say spouse or adult child of legal age to possess firearms, provided they have completed the pre-requisite training for ownership?
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And it takes 14 days to get a permit so the "lucky guy" can't even legally transfer to another person in the PRHi, unless its a long gun and the transferee has a permit in hand. So its De Facto confiscation.
I'm so glad our "representatives" listen to the constituents. :grrr:
you could transfer to a FFL to get them out of state or to the FFL as a intermediary until whomever can get their permit(s) to acquire
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you could transfer to a FFL to get them out of state or to the FFL as a intermediary until whomever can get their permit(s) to acquire
You could just make them disappeared
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Aren't we talking about accessories and not firearms?
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S 3/8/2018: Referred to PSM, JDC.
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2018/bills/HB1908_HD2_.pdf
HB1908 HD2 Prohibited; Bump Fire Stocks; Multiburst Trigger Activators; Trigger Cranks; Firearm
RELATING TO FIREARMS. Prohibits manufacture, importation, sale, transfer, and possession of bump fire stocks, multiburst trigger activators, and trigger cranks. (HB1908 HD2)
Oppose. TAKAYAMA, CREAGAN, DECOITE, GATES, ING, KEOHOKALOLE, LOPRESTI, LOWEN, NISHIMOTO, SAY PSM, JDC
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Aren't we talking about accessories and not firearms?
:thumbsup:
I know my device is not "registered". Because it doesn't have to be.