2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: Bunker on February 19, 2018, 02:45:24 PM
-
Fully functional gun, disguised as a toy.
(https://image.ibb.co/gsZ9Y7/21346340_13744.jpg)
-
Yup, great way to get children killed!
-
This original post is interesting but I believe is a really bad idea. I've seen variations of it before and I just shake my head why someone would even do it without thinking about the consequence.
Please do not do this if you are thinking it would be a "fun" or "cool" project.
-
Cerakote instead.
-
more reasons to ban toy guns
and creativity...thought police task force will need to be established
submit all your thoughts to the govt. for approval
-
1. I’m not from the government.
2. Why is this a good idea again? I only see downsides to going down this path. Pandora’s Box.
-
1. I’m not from the government.
2. Why is this a good idea again? I only see downsides to going down this path. Pandora’s Box.
Some people just can't seem to let go of the antiquated notions of "liberty" and "free country".
-
Sure. I don’t disagree with that.
I’ll just lump you in with the same guys in the Darwin Awards category from now on.
(Not you puna or even the OP). But to someone making something like this, I would say to them “You have every right to be stupid.” Followed by “pls stay out of my neighborhood and away from my kids. “
-
there is the 1st but there is no right to protect the dumb
This is a dumb idea - not illegal as it is to cross a highway with no crosswalk wearing all black in the middle of the night
-
I remember seeing this in an article a while ago. The super soaker belonged to a criminal and was used to "hide" the shotty.
-
I'm puzzled. What is the evil/dumb/stupid inherent in this "gun project"?
Are people assuming that a child finding this gun will automatically use it to kill or injure himself or others?
If so, why would you believe that? Do you believe that bumpstocks should be banned because they will be used to kill people? Do you believe that no one but government agents should have handgun magazines with a capacity greater than 10 rounds because "civilians" will kill people with higher capacity mags? Do you believe that no non-government agents should be allowed to bear arms outside their home for the purpose of self-defense because it will turn Hawaii into the Wild West?
You'd have to assume that the gun 1. was left where a child could access it, 2. the gun was left there loaded, or with ammunition to load, 3. the child had no education in firearms safety (e.g. "Eddie Eagle", etc.), 4. the child would know how to load an unloaded gun, 5. the child wouldn't be able to tell the difference (weight, etc.) between a toy gun and a real gun.
Or what?
(Of course if the "project" was done in order to facilitate committing a crime, well, that's already illegal (committing a crime... but I fail to see how disguising the gun is "dumb").)
-
The photo is a confiscated weapon from a criminal, who disguised it as a toy for whatever reason.
-
https://m.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2014/12/08/photo-ohio-police-confiscate-shotgun-designed-to-look-like-a-toy-squirt-gun
-
The criminal element will resort to pretty much anything when it comes to their criminal activities. Makes the jobs of law enforcement more challenging when they criminals disguise weapons as toys.
-
The criminal element will resort to pretty much anything when it comes to their criminal activities. Makes the jobs of law enforcement more challenging when they criminals disguise weapons as toys.
Exactly. Meanwhile lawmakers and LEOS go after and criminalize legal gun owners, trying to pass all sorts of bans and restrictions on their rights. ::)
-
I'm puzzled. What is the evil/dumb/stupid inherent in this "gun project"?
Do you have kids? I do and my little kids and the friends play with nerf guns all the time. Just stop for a second and think about it, will you? If you don't get it, well, I really don't know about you.
Do you think it would be a good idea to cerakote one of your real firearms the same color as your trainer firearm (blue)? Would you cerakote the handle of your real spyderco the same color as your trainer spyderco (blue)?
As gun owners, we all sort of know by social conventions that an ORANGE TIP on the firearm means it's a toy. If I'd have to guess, the gun and the toy industries came up with that convention to help society differentiate between the two. When you see a red traffic sign that say "STOP", everyone knows that it means "STOP". But when you start messing with this socially agreed upon convention and start telling yourself that "Oh, that STOP sign actually means DRIVE 65 MPH!", what do you think would be the result?
If so, why would you believe that? Do you believe that bumpstocks should be banned because they will be used to kill people? Do you believe that no one but government agents should have handgun magazines with a capacity greater than 10 rounds because "civilians" will kill people with higher capacity mags? Do you believe that no non-government agents should be allowed to bear arms outside their home for the purpose of self-defense because it will turn Hawaii into the Wild West?
No. I don't believe in any of that at all. What do those even have to do with this?
You'd have to assume that the gun 1. was left where a child could access it, 2. the gun was left there loaded, or with ammunition to load, 3. the child had no education in firearms safety (e.g. "Eddie Eagle", etc.), 4. the child would know how to load an unloaded gun, 5. the child wouldn't be able to tell the difference (weight, etc.) between a toy gun and a real gun.
Boy, that's quite a narrow thought. The key point of this topic is this... being able to correctly identify if something is a real firearm or a toy one. When my child is outside playing with his toy guns, I make sure he isn't playing with anything without an orange tip or something that is obviously painted to look like a toy. I don't want a cop to shoot him mistakenly thinking he had a real firearm. On the counter-side, it will only take one bad guy or some stupid shithead using one of this to kill a cop, for cops to get quick on the trigger on kids playing with nerf guns. And of course, this makes the job of LEOs AND responsible adult gun owners just that more difficult.
-
Do you have kids? I do and my little kids and the friends play with nerf guns all the time. Just stop for a second and think about it, will you? If you don't get it, well, I really don't know about you.
1. So having kids is necessary for one to have an opinion about this? Or at least a possibly valid opinion? Explain why. By the way, I don't accept the "all kids of any age are too stupid to know what to do" (if they see a firearm or be able to distinguish a 'real" firearm from a "disguised" firearm) explanation. I'll accept the "my kids are mentally impaired and incapable of learning such things" explanation, in which case perhaps one oughtn't have any firearms of any kind, including "undisguised" anywhere those kids are.
2. Okay, second's up. Have you had any discussion/training with your "little kids and the friends" about firearms and what to do if they see one unattended by an adult? That would include ways to distinguish a real firearm from a "toy" firearm. That's your responsibility.
Do you think it would be a good idea to cerakote one of your real firearms the same color as your trainer firearm (blue)? Would you cerakote the handle of your real spyderco the same color as your trainer spyderco (blue)?
I don't like blue firearms, so no. I'm not going to tell someone else they "shouldn't" do that, or that they are "stupid" or "dumb" for doing so. But that's where you and I differ. I know, you "don't know about [me]". I can clearly see that. And that there are other things you don't get as well. That's fine.
As gun owners, we all sort of know by social conventions that an ORANGE TIP on the firearm means it's a toy. If I'd have to guess, the gun and the toy industries came up with that convention to help society differentiate between the two. When you see a red traffic sign that say "STOP", everyone knows that it means "STOP". But when you start messing with this socially agreed upon convention and start telling yourself that "Oh, that STOP sign actually means DRIVE 65 MPH!", what do you think would be the result?
Straw man argument. False analogy. Where have you seen the "stop signs" that mean "drive 65 mph"? What did the people do who came upon those signs, including the children? Was someone replacing the ordinary stop signs with the drive fast stop signs? Where? How many? One person did it in one place and it was removed by law enforcement? How many people were actually injured due to the one sign replacement? That's what I thought. You can make any imaginary scenario you want, but don't expect at least some people to buy into it as having anything to do with reality (see: bumpstock/"assault weapons"/standard magazine capacity/stun gun/CCW/etc. bans).
No. I don't believe in any of that at all. What do those even have to do with this?
Do you believe that bumpstocks should be banned because they will be used to kill people? Do you believe that no one but government agents should have handgun magazines with a capacity greater than 10 rounds because "civilians" will kill people with higher capacity mags? Do you believe that no non-government agents should be allowed to bear arms outside their home for the purpose of self-defense because it will turn Hawaii into the Wild West?
Because all those things are things, just like the "disguised" firearm, that a (large?) segment of the population believe are evil/dumb/stupid because they cause horrible violence to be reigned upon innocent people. At least there they have an argument based upon a (skewed) statistical analysis. What is the database of children using "disguised" guns, compared to children using "real" guns to cause harm? And what's the solution to children causing harm with undisguised guns? Banning guns, as some suggest? Ever thought about teaching children to "never point a gun at anything you don't want to destroy"? I know, where's the fun in that? It violates every principle of "kids should be able to have fun" ever conceived. When you do training with your toy blue gun, do you follow the rules of gun safety or not? I mean, it can't possibly hurt anyone or anything, right?
Boy, that's quite a narrow thought. The key point of this topic is this... being able to correctly identify if something is a real firearm or a toy one. When my child is outside playing with his toy guns, I make sure he isn't playing with anything without an orange tip or something that is obviously painted to look like a toy. I don't want a cop to shoot him mistakenly thinking he had a real firearm. On the counter-side, it will only take one bad guy or some stupid shithead using one of this to kill a cop, for cops to get quick on the trigger on kids playing with nerf guns. And of course, this makes the job of LEOs AND responsible adult gun owners just that more difficult.
I believe we're discussing one gun that was confiscated by the cops and there's no evidence it ever presented any threat to a child, right? Or do you have evidence that this is a common occurrence? We're back to the danger of bumpstocks/standard capacity magazines/public CCW: Is there a "real" problem or only one in the imaginations of people who are either ignorant or know their claims to be false but have an agenda? If someone wants to modify their firearm in some way that I or other people wouldn't ourselves choose to do, that's their business... as are the consequences of having done so. Is it my business to tell them they "shouldn't" or that they are dumb/stupid/evil for doing so? I don't think so. But if you do, that's your business... but I don't see how you can complain when people tell you that you can't have a bumpstock or a standard capacity magazine or may not bear arms in public for self defense. I mean, you can complain, but you will be inconsistent in your conceptual principles. And of course you are free to be inconsistent. Go right ahead.
-
Too young to carry? No word in the story whether the gun was "disguised" or not, but it was unloaded.
https://www.daytondailynews.com/news/local/year-old-found-with-gun-his-backpack-local-elementary-school/67Ilr0EH87WHIsITRE3UbP/
8-year-old found with a gun in his backpack at local elementary school
A student at Simon Kenton Elementary School brought a gun to school in his book bag on Tuesday according to Springfield Police.
The 8-year-old told police that he thought another student was going to hurt him and that is why he had a gun. The gun was found unloaded by a teacher who was putting homework in the suspect’s backpack.
Police responded to Simon Kenton Elementary School at around 3:30 p.m. Tuesday and arrested the student in question. According to police the suspect will be charged with Illegal conveyance or possession of a deadly weapon in a school safety zone.
-
Wow great -- you accuse me of strawman arguments when I was offering an analogy to explain a point, and then try to change the whole topic by putting words in my mouth about how I am against bumpstocks. :wacko:
-
Wow great -- you accuse me of strawman arguments when I was offering an analogy to explain a point, and then try to change the whole topic by putting words in my mouth about how I am against bumpstocks. :wacko:
1. Yes, in this context of what had been written previously, I find your argument that "when you start messing with this socially agreed upon convention..." etc. to be a strawman. I then also pointed out that I believed the analogy you presented was invalid, and asked for real world examples of how the your claim has resulted in damage in fact and not fantasy (hypotheticals).
2. Please provide the quote where I claimed "[you are] against bumpstocks".
3. Why don't you actually respond to the questions I asked you and the points I made re the issues?
-
You and I are clearly not intersecting here and are missing each other's points. I don't really care to argue with anyone on this forums so I'll leave you to it. Maybe if I visit the Big Island, you and I can discuss this over coffee or something.
-
Police officers will see stories like this where a gun is made to look like a toy and next time a kid points a super soaker at them they might end up shooting the kid because they recall seeing these types of items.
Then the media and someone like BLM will blast the cops for shooting a kid who just had a toy and we will have riots etc etc.
-
Police officers will see stories like this where a gun is made to look like a toy and next time a kid points a super soaker at them they might end up shooting the kid because they recall seeing these types of items.
Then the media and someone like BLM will blast the cops for shooting a kid who just had a toy and we will have riots etc etc.
This, and I also disagree with people doing this kind of things, either legally or illegally.
-
Police officers will see stories like this where a gun is made to look like a toy and next time a kid points a super soaker at them they might end up shooting the kid because they recall seeing these types of items.
Then the media and someone like BLM will blast the cops for shooting a kid who just had a toy and we will have riots etc etc.
This, and I also disagree with people doing this kind of things, either legally or illegally.
That photo of that confiscated weapon was from 2012. It's now 2018. How many people have been shot in the past 6 years by cops for pointing similar water-soakers at cops?
I suppose then you also support the "turn in toys guns" programs mentioned in the article? After all, if having toy guns is now a danger, then you would be in favor of removing toy guns from the public, one way or another, right? No responsible parent would allow his children to have access to toy guns knowing that the cops are predisposed to shooting anyone brandishing a toy gun, correct?
-
Ridiculous. :crazy:
It’s already been mentioned somewhere else that cops have shot kids who were holding all black toy guns in public. Just do a google search or a YouTube search and you’ll find anecdotal examples.
I hope it doesn’t come to the point where orange tipped Nerf guns would be considered a possible gun by cops. That would suck for all kids who enjoy playing toy guns.
Anyway, I don’t want to argue with you on this.
You have every right to hold views of an anarchist. If you’re just being argumentative, then that’s another story.
-
Ridiculous. :crazy:
It’s already been mentioned that cops have shot kids who were holding all black toy guns. Just do a google search or a YouTube search and you’ll find anecdotal examples.
I hope it doesn’t come to the point where orange tipped Nerf guns would be considered a possible gun by cops. That would suck for all kids who enjoy playing toy guns.
Anyway, I don’t want to argue with you on this.
You have every right to hold views of an anarchist. If you’re just being argumentative, then that’s another story.
Why don't you just answer the questions? You not only won't state clearly what your hypothesis is for why you dubbed the original photo/general idea as "stupid" or "dumb", but then rather than answer the questions that would naturally arise from your comments and explain your position clearly, and provide supporting evidence for your positions, and how those policy positions differ from the people who want to ban and/or restrict other Second Amendment rights. You resorting to labeling someone or the questions asked as "ridiculous" or an "anarchist" rather than simply answering them makes one wonder why you don't just clearly state your views? (How many times have we seen in the past week people stating that "An 18 year old being able to buy an AR15 is ridiculous!"?) Do you or don't support the elimination of all toy guns (including "air soft", etc. as well as those such as in the photo)? If not why not, given the harm that has come to various individuals through law enforcement misapprehension of those toys as "real" guns?
I see you've edited your original response.
There are examples of criminals painting an orange tip on a real gun, so that horse is already out of the barn, that's why I asked if you support the banning of all toy guns, since there is already no way for anyone to tell at any distance if a gun is real or toy. That was the point of the original article which linked to the effort to have parents "influence" their kids to turn in their toy guns. You seem to be an advocate of "gun play", so I suspect you are against such efforts, but I don't see how that's consistent with your condemnation of the alteration of a real firearm and the consequences you claim derive from that. If no kids had any toy guns, it would clarify any situation were a gun was pointed at someone no matter what it looked like.
What you write is logically inconsistent. You have every right to hold views that are logically inconsistent.
-
Discussing this further with you is a waste of my time. Go live in your make believe world and have a nice day.
-
Discussing this further with you is a waste of my time.
That horse left the barn long ago. :geekdanc:
-
There are things I have built just because I can . . . building a fully functional firearm that will pass as a toy will not be one of them. In my mind that's just being sensible, but that's just me.
-
For the children.
Congratulations.
You guys should sleep better now.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/02/28/walmart-bans-gun-sales-21-years-airsoft-rifles-look-like-ar-15s/
Walmart Bans Gun Sales Under 21 Years and Toy Rifles That Look Like AR-15s/AK-47s
On Wednesday, Walmart announced that it would no longer sell guns to persons under 21 and would not carry Airsoft rifles that look like AR-15s.
The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/28/business/walmart-gun-age-increase.html) reports that Walmart will also end sales of Airsoft guns that resemble an “assault rifle” and they are also ridding shelves of toy rifles that resemble AR-15s or AK-47s.
-
Walmart is in violation of people RIGHTS. There is no law that says anyone 18yo cannot purchase a rifle. Therefore their "policy" is a direct infringement on civil rights. I hope they get sued. They can do whatever they want with toys