2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: ren on February 26, 2018, 08:10:32 PM
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http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/37597785/in-frank-talk-police-chief-recalls-encountering-i-hate-women-club-at-hpd (http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/37597785/in-frank-talk-police-chief-recalls-encountering-i-hate-women-club-at-hpd)
The title of the news articles i s misleading a bit
"In case of an active shooter, Ballard said rubber door stops to jam a door would offer more protection than teachers with guns." Who believes this?
The principal of the school, Sister Joan of Arc Souza, doesn't want teachers carrying guns either.
"I said to somebody over my dead body that's going to happen and they said that could happen, but I said no no. My teachers will not carry guns," she said.
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If I'm not mistaken, most classroom doors open out.
To prevent a pile up in case of a fire in the room.
Therefore a rubber door stop won't work.
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I think you're right.
To meet the NFPA Fire code.
Must open outward.
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If I'm not mistaken, most classroom doors open out.
To prevent a pile up in case of a fire in the room.
Therefore a rubber door stop won't work.
Depends on if the classroom has one or two exits. Only the outside doors need to go outward but not in the hallway. A normal door stop could be overcome with considerable force but would distract the shooter while SWAT arrives. The main problem with a door stop is the attached ones are on the wrong side of the door and a loose door stop tends to go missing.
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Depends on if the classroom has one or two exits. Only the outside doors need to go outward but not in the hallway. A normal door stop could be overcome with considerable force but would distract the shooter while SWAT arrives. The main problem with a door stop is the attached ones are on the wrong side of the door and a loose door stop tends to go missing.
Every school i have been to in Hawaii the doors have opened outwards.
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"In case of an active shooter, Ballard said rubber door stops to jam a door would offer more protection than teachers with guns."
So if the doors do open outwardly does that mean the chief of police is ignorant, or what? A teacher (or other school personnel) with a gun has at least an opportunity to stop a perpetrator. A doorstop, even if they could be used and were used would merely send the perpetrator to his next target unscathed and undelayed and undead.
"Remember, they go through training every year to make these types of decisions, the teachers don't."
She has no idea what training and repetition of training would be required for school personnel to carry, and how much added training those personnel might undergo voluntarily. I've heard some stories about the relatively low level of firearms proficiency by some cops...
The principal of the school, Sister Joan of Arc Souza, doesn't want teachers carrying guns either.
"I said to somebody over my dead body that's going to happen and they said that could happen, but I said no no. My teachers will not carry guns," she said.
What happens to these people that they come to the conclusion that it is better for people to die than for them to have at least a chance to defend themselves and possibly save the lives of others? I know, I know... "liberalism is a disease", etc. I'm just stunned every time I hear it. :wtf:
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If nobody has done so already, can somebody send an email to Mahealani to remind her about the door stop idea.
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Here is Joe Huffman in today's "Quote of the Day" providing one response to the question I asked above as to how can people conclude that having no armed personnel is better than having armed personnel. {I mean of course besides the fact that it contributes to their agenda to make everyone totally dependent on government rather than self-sufficient.] I believe that Williamson's quote applies to the current chief of HPD...
http://blog.joehuffman.org/2018/02/27/quote-of-the-day-michael-z-williamson-5/
Quote of the day—Michael Z. Williamson
Posted on February 27, 2018 by Joe
When someone attacks a school or other soft target, the response is going to involve people with guns. People with guns who are driving distance away are less effective than people with guns on site.
You cannot disagree with this. It is a fact. If you attempt to disagree, you’re just not living in the real world. Go see a professional, do not ever buy a gun, do not vote. You probably shouldn’t drive, drink or handle matches either. You probably need an audio track of “Breathe in, breathe out.”
Michael Z. Williamson
February 23, 2018
Why Liberals Are Wrong About School Shootings (And Everything Else)
http://www.michaelzwilliamson.com/blog/index.php?itemid=448
[I have nothing to add.—Joe]
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A couple of HS classmates were having a "discussion" on FB regarding arming of teachers. Friend #1 posted a pic about a fork in the road where an attacker was at a fork in the road and had the choice of a "gun-free zone" school or a school that was known to have armed security and staff. Friend #2, who I believe is a teacher, mentioned about how teachers would give their lives for students but shouldn't be forced to carry and also about how she felt that the dangers of armed teachers.
Regarding arming of teachers, I'm all for supporting teachers and other school staff who WANT to be armed to be able to defend themselves, students and other staff. I would HOPE they get training, including how to appropriate respond when LE does arrive. That said, I believe the overreaction of the general public to the proposal of armed teachers is one of a heavily 2a media and a message slanted in terms of forcing it upon teachers to be armed. Yeah, Trump probably could have chosen better words, but that's another story.
Regarding "dangers" of armed teachers. Friend #2's concerns were of negligent discharges, which were effectively answered and countered by Friend #1. Another concern was if an angry teacher were to take things out via the firearm on another. Friend #1 effectively countered that one too as that could happen anywhere, not just schools. Friend #2 also was stating about how effective would arming teachers would be, that's where Friend #1 faltered a little and I chimed in about deterrence. How even the assumption of deterrence can be enough to have the attackers look elsewhere.
When I visited the PI, I immediately noticed what appeared to be armed guards literally everywhere! At mall entrances, even every Starbucks and Seattle's Best Coffee shops (yeah, I had a laugh about having SBC in Makati). Anyways, I noticed that many times, the holsters of the guards were empty, but you couldn't really tell unless up close. Closer look at some of the shotguns they had and I suspected that many of them were not fully functioning. In any case, it was WELL known that malls did have armed guards. While I was there, there was an attempt to rob one of the jewelry stores and the robbers were sent away by response by armed guards, with functioning firearms. The locals told me that in general, the malls are known to be guarded and generally no one tries to do much. However, you'll occasionally get the super desperate one/ones that will try things.
The one part I wanted to chime in on was Friend #2's irrational fear of guns. I didn't, but if she lived here, I would invite her out to experience firearms amongst a group of friends.
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Does anyone have these rubber door stop? Im not worried anymore. The police will rush in and save me hpd :worship:
They are trained very year for this! no experience! just training...
And the chief admits the police are all in ka hoots froming clubs in hpd that probably y they so weary on everything O0
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If nobody has done so already, can somebody send an email to Mahealani to remind her about the door stop idea.
I wrote Ms. Richardson and ask her to look into the doorstop issue. I also mentioned the FASTER program (http://fastersaveslives.org) and the Joe Huffman post today about his training of neophyte firearms students, and he claimed that in four hours he could train people sufficiently to pass the local police department firearms proficiency test. (http://blog.joehuffman.org/2018/02/26/interesting-6/)
She wrote me back and asked for an interview if I lived on Oahu, which I don't. She also asked to interview the trainer I mentioned, but of course Joe lives in eastern Washington state. Clearly she's interested in the issues, so if any of you know of people there on Oahu who are knowledgeable and willing to go on the record, please contact them or her with suggestions. Maybe someone from HRA? Really though it'd be best if she talked to the people at FASTER, even though there is likely no one in Hawaii directly affiliated with the program... since no one in Hawaii can carry concealed, though I suppose the emergency medical response part of the program would be useful.
mrichardson@hawaiinewsnow.com
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And give me four hours and I can get them to the point where they could pass the shooting qualification test of local police departments. I offered free training to any teacher that wanted it.
Is he referring to just basic marksmanship?
For the average person whose experience is "37th through 46th shots, in her ENTIRE life", I doubt they could pass the average qual of a major PD. Recently, I've shot the Hawaii Sheriff's qual and I guess I could see someone passing who has had only 4 hours of training. I haven't shot HPD's qual in a while, but I've shot Houston PD's qual and it involves shooting and moving. Something that I don't really see happening with someone with just 4 hours of training. At least the average inexperienced shooter that I've come across over the years of helping basic pistol courses.
I applaud the guy's willingness to help, but come on. . .
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I normally walk around with a concealed door stop in each back pocket. The backup door stop is in case I miss placing the first door stop correctly
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puna
thanks for writing mahea
sorry I don't know anything about that faster program
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I say that they should repeal the "gun free zone" ban that was enacted in 1990, and leave it up to the school. So if you're a teacher and the principal says no, either follow or work somewhere else. Just like any business, they can do what they want.
The problem I see is with the current federal law, even if you arm school security, they're not LE and are breaking the gun free zone law. So that would mean we need actual HPD on site. We don't have enough HPD for every school.
Ballard said HPD can be on site in 2 minutes. Okay probably, but how long before someone actually calls them, then are dispatched? I say at best 1 minute. Then once on site, how long to assess the situation and locate the shooter? So at best students are looking at 10 minutes before HPD actually takes any action. Cruz took only 7 minutes to shoot.
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I normally walk around with a concealed door stop in each back pocket. The backup door stop is in case I miss placing the first door stop correctly
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Damn thumbsnap doesn't fit... :rofl
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Aloha Senator.
Thank you for your reply and for being a supporter of my God given constitutional rights.
On a side note regarding Chief of Police' Ballard's recent comment on how a doorstop would be a more effective deterrent to a shooter than a "Good Guy with a Gun", perhaps you could let her know that the majority of Hawaii's classroom doors swing outward for egress.
In a message dated 2/27/2018 9:00:46 AM Hawaiian Standard Time, sengabbard@capitol.hawaii.gov writes:
Aloha e ROCKY
Mahalo for your email. ( please oppose Senate Bills 2046 and 2436.) I'm a supporter of Second Amendment rights and appreciate your input. I'll consider this closely if and when I have an opportunity to vote on it.
Best wishes to you and your 'ohana.
Me ke aloha pumehana,
Senator Mike Gabbard
Chair, Agriculture and Environment Committee
Hawai'i State Capitol, Room 201
Honolulu, Hawai`i 96813
Ph: 586-6830 Fax: 586-6679
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^
At best..... Hawaii is backwards in nature. Just look at the missile false alarm fiasco. HPD can be on site in 2 minutes? But what about if the cops are on their afternoon nap or doughnut break? Also keep in mind that calling the cops probably takes at least a few minutes to tell them the 5 Ws. And they don't know if it's a prank or false alarm, so would probably send 1-2 squad cars until they can verify.
Long time ago, my ex gf had a weird homeless guy follow her home. She called the cops and texted me. I came from across town and was on site a lot faster than the cop was. I think he took 25 minutes maybe? If something had actually happened, the only "protection" he would provide is a police report and an ambulance ride to the nearest hospital.
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good one rocky
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and by the way, regarding that principal who said "over my dead body".....
I would remind her that in the days of Jesus, shepherds (teachers) would guard their flock (children) with big sticks.
Not door stops or coarse language.
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There's also the infamous "Blue Flu" which seems more likely now that a new Chief has been selected to reform a culture of delinquency.
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At best..... Hawaii is backwards in nature. Just look at the missile false alarm fiasco. HPD can be on site in 2 minutes? But what about if the cops are on their afternoon nap or doughnut break? Also keep in mind that calling the cops probably takes at least a few minutes to tell them the 5 Ws. And they don't know if it's a prank or false alarm, so would probably send 1-2 squad cars until they can verify.
Long time ago, my ex gf had a weird homeless guy follow her home. She called the cops and texted me. I came from across town and was on site a lot faster than the cop was. I think he took 25 minutes maybe? If something had actually happened, the only "protection" he would provide is a police report and an ambulance ride to the nearest hospital.
To be fair, if HPD hears "school shooter" they're probably going to drop everything they're doing and come over, especially now.
I called HPD once because my "door open" alarm went off on my gun safe. I was at Ala Moana Shopping Center. HPD called me back in 3 minutes saying they were outside of my home and there are no signs of forced entry and don't hear anyone inside either. They waited until I came home to sweep my place. Took me 8 minutes to come home.
When I called 911, I told them what guns I have inside my safe just in case someone did break in. I wanted HPD to know what to be ready for.
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good one rocky
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and by the way, regarding that principal who said "over my dead body".....
I would remind her that in the days of Jesus, shepherds (teachers) would guard their flock (children) with big sticks.
Not door stops or coarse language.
That's her choice to make for HERSELF. If a liberal prefers to be a victim, that's their choice. Other people may choose to try to protect the children and stop the murderer. The real issue is that people like her are all too willing to try to impose their choice on other people.
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puna
thanks for writing mahea
sorry I don't know anything about that faster program
She wrote me back asking to do a Skype interview, but I politely declined and asked that she contact FASTER, even though they are likely inundated with requests for interviews. I mentioned a number factors, including that the FASTER training includes emergency medical trauma response training, and that most of the people shot in those school settings do not die immediately from the gunshots, but due to blood loss over time. The emergency medical responders in Parkland were quite upset that they were not allowed into the buildings for 30 minutes due to "police procedure" (while the suspect ate lunch at McDonald's... :wtf:). They knew that likely some people could have been saved had they been attended to immediately even after their relatively delayed arrival on site. More could have likely been saved had the school staff been trained in emergency trauma care and had the appropriate medical supplies. I also mentioned that at least some pilots trained to carry in cockpits of commercial flights had little or no prior firearms experience, and there is not record of problems with that program. The "door stop" and "no guns for staff" strategies are neither rational nor based upon evidence. But, that's par for the course here in Hawaii.
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Gun instructor uses AR-15 to stop attacker in Oswego: 'He was a half a breath away from getting his head blown off .
Dave Thomas was getting ready for work Monday afternoon when he heard women screaming in his apartment building in Oswego.
Thomas, a gun instructor, peeked out the door and saw blood in the hallway. He went to his bedroom, where a handgun and an AR-15 assault-style rifle were lying on the bed. He picked up the rifle.
"I teach people how to defend themselves, and it was just a reaction to grab the AR-15," he said.
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Police said Thomas confronted a man who was stabbing another man in the apartment complex on the 100 block of Harbor Drive. The man with the knife ran off when Thomas threatened to shoot him.
"I think this is a perfect example of why... every single law-abiding citizen should have an AR-15," Thomas said, adding that they should have proper training.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/aurora-beacon-news/news/ct-abn-oswego-stabbing-charges-st-0227-20180227-story.html
I wonder if the cops would have arrived in time to stop the perp and prevent the death of the guy getting stabbed?
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Depends on if the classroom has one or two exits. Only the outside doors need to go outward but not in the hallway. A normal door stop could be overcome with considerable force but would distract the shooter while SWAT arrives. The main problem with a door stop is the attached ones are on the wrong side of the door and a loose door stop tends to go missing.
Thr only doors that open in are doors leading to other rooms.
All doors primary doors in schools open outward for fire safety reasons,.
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Public doors and places with a lot of people open outwards to meet the fire code. If there is a crowd at the door there is no space to open it inwards.
For armed teachers, what it would take is acceptance from the teachers union, it being voluntary with tax credits for the purchase of the gun, holster, ammunition, and classes along with paid time off to attend training. There would also need to be liability protection.
For training they would need to take basic pistol, 2 day CCW course, and 1 day scenario training. Have an annual qualification course similar to security guards and refresher training. This would allow them to defend their classroom and the immediate area outside.
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Public doors and places with a lot of people open outwards to meet the fire code. If there is a crowd at the door there is no space to open it inwards.
For armed teachers, what it would take is acceptance from the teachers union, it being voluntary with tax credits for the purchase of the gun, holster, ammunition, and classes along with paid time off to attend training. There would also need to be liability protection.
For training they would need to take basic pistol, 2 day CCW course, and 1 day scenario training. Have an annual qualification course similar to security guards and refresher training. This would allow them to defend their classroom and the immediate area outside.
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Colorado has a system in place. That would make a fine model.
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Colorado has a system in place. That would make a fine model.
That's interesting, I can look at other state's with similar laws and safety history. I'd like to push something like this at next year's session.
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That's interesting, I can look at other state's with similar laws and safety history. I'd like to push something like this at next year's session.
All those other states ("shall") issue CCW licenses/permits or are permitless. Gonna be hard to carry with zero licenses issued in Hawaii.
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good one rocky
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and by the way, regarding that principal who said "over my dead body".....
I would remind her that in the days of Jesus, shepherds (teachers) would guard their flock (children) with big sticks.
Not door stops or coarse language.
So what gives her the rights to die just so my child can too ? :wacko: