2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: robtmc on March 04, 2018, 07:49:26 AM
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Luckily, the way this one went, it bypassed all the political interference the west side range encountered.. This is the MM16 site that has had shooters cited for shooting .22 as it is not a legal hunting caliber.
http://www.westhawaiitoday.com/2018/03/03/hawaii-news/ready-aim-fire-dlnr-working-on-rules-signs-for-islands-only-public-shooting-range/ (http://www.westhawaiitoday.com/2018/03/03/hawaii-news/ready-aim-fire-dlnr-working-on-rules-signs-for-islands-only-public-shooting-range/)
Quite a drive from my house in Kona, but in reality, takes about the same time as driving to Manuka with all the slow traffic and speed limits going south.
Best parts of the article are:
“… However, the intent is to provide opportunities for the public at large and not just hunters.”
" DLNR also is looking at proposing an area in the Manuka Natural Area Reserve in South Kona as a public shooting range. "
Two ranges withing driving distance? Unbelievable if it happens.
Will not be surprised at some liberals trying a lawsuit to stop or slow things down.
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Great news :thumbsup:
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So... nothing has changed about the physical conditions nor the rules applying to the area (hunting license required, only hunting-appropriate firearms may be legally used, and people will be cited for not following that rule, etc.)... but they are going to put up "signage" and "a kiosk" with rules. But they have "intentions" that are other than what they have actually done. Yeah, that makes sense. Am I missing something or has the totality of the change been to merely make "official" what has always been the case for that area? In other words all that has really changed has been words.
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From the article, take it for what it is worth:
“… However, the intent is to provide opportunities for the public at large and not just hunters.”
If some local shooting group stepped up to lend a had with cleanup and some rudimentary facilities would be nice.
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Looks promising and unlike other range projects it looks like the mile 16 range will succeed.
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Looks promising and unlike other range projects it looks like the mile 16 range will succeed.
until people start abusing it and mess it up...
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From the article, take it for what it is worth:
“… However, the intent is to provide opportunities for the public at large and not just hunters.”
If some local shooting group stepped up to lend a had with cleanup and some rudimentary facilities would be nice.
I was saying that their "intent" is not worth anything at all. Nothing has changed about that area except that it is now "officially" sanctioned. Nothing.
I'm not saying that it won't change in the future, only that they have changed nothing at all about that area. When they speak of their "intentions" they should tell us what item is being proposed on what agenda for what meeting when to accomplish that "intention", otherwise it seems like nothing but hot air. Maybe it's a "secret" that they can't reveal to the public yet?
I hope I'm wrong.
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Its going to take a little time to get everything in place especially since this project came up fairly recently.
Going through the normal process would involve studies, environmental impact statements, at least a couple years worth of bills in the legislature, numerous public hearings, dealing with protesters, zoning issues, and all kinds of other stuff.
Regular ranges take about 5 to 15 years to plan and build. If they're built at all.
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I was up there yesterday to do test loads on various calibers. Just a few guys there all doing the same. Set up my target stand with paper targets on top and my 6" ar500 gong under it at 100yds, set up my pistol target stand with paper targets and 3 plates below, and just had at it. We were all on the same page. Every so often we would all stop and go check/adjust targets and go at it again. It felt great to not worry about having multiple firearms out and also to finally shoot a ton of 22lr I've been sitting on. Good times for sure. Just thought I'd share my experience I had there with you guys.
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... and also to finally shoot a ton of 22lr I've been sitting on. Good times for sure. Just thought I'd share my experience I had there with you guys.
So 22LR is confirmed okay to use? Okay to practice with non-hunting specific rounds? That's great news if so! Really makes me happy to hear that. :shaka:
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So 22LR is confirmed okay to use? Okay to practice with non-hunting specific rounds? That's great news if so! Really makes me happy to hear that. :shaka:
That is correct. Ok to plink, and shoot, non-hunting specific rounds. I also confirmed this with one of the folks that was involved with DOCARE to make this a legitimate shooting area. Good news indeed.
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Mahalo for the awesome news! That'll make my wife happy to hear also. She really likes shooting our S&W 617 revolver because of the no recoil 22lr :D
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I was saying that their "intent" is not worth anything at all. Nothing has changed about that area except that it is now "officially" sanctioned. Nothing.
I'm not saying that it won't change in the future, only that they have changed nothing at all about that area. When they speak of their "intentions" they should tell us what item is being proposed on what agenda for what meeting when to accomplish that "intention", otherwise it seems like nothing but hot air. Maybe it's a "secret" that they can't reveal to the public yet?
I hope I'm wrong.
The meeting was only ten days ago. Maybe you're not able to comprehend a bigger picture. What do you want already, berms, benches, bathrooms and a snack bar? You can never please everyone.
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The meeting was only ten days ago. Maybe you're not able to comprehend a bigger picture. What do you want already, berms, benches, bathrooms and a snack bar? You can never please everyone.
They were discussing a range last year
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=26209.0
And they are still in the "discussing a range" stage over a year later
In Oregon we went from this mess with people shooting a hillside:
(https://i.imgur.com/w0xVlyP.jpg)
To this in less than a year working with the state (same location)
(https://i.imgur.com/ndXPkNV.jpg)
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The meeting was only ten days ago. Maybe you're not able to comprehend a bigger picture. What do you want already, berms, benches, bathrooms and a snack bar? You can never please everyone.
No. I was only referring to the regulations regarding what calibers and what firearms are legal to fire there and whether or not a hunting license is still required. Some people here claim those regulations, at least the hunting caliber/firearms only regulation, have/has been rescinded. I attempted to contact Tom Lodge to confirm that but was unable to find a new working phone number for him and the contact person at the county Game Management Advisory Commission has not gotten back to me. I personally don't care if they ever make any "improvements", only that it be a range where all firearms and calibers are allowed without having to have any permission slip from the government.
From the BLNR submission at the 2/23 meeting: "...authorize the use of all legally possessed and used firearms... and ammunition...".
file:///C:/Users/User/Documents/Gun%20Stuff%20New%20HP/big%20island%20shooting%20range%20mm16%20blnr%20official%20statement%2002%2023%2018.pdf
Still not sure about hunting license requirement. Will call tomorrow.
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They were discussing a range last year
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=26209.0
They have been discussing a range for a hell of a lot longer than last year. Like it or not, this is not Oregon.
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No. I was only referring to the regulations regarding what calibers and what firearms are legal to fire there and whether or not a hunting license is still required. Some people here claim those regulations, at least the hunting caliber/firearms only regulation, have/has been rescinded. I attempted to contact Tom Lodge to confirm that but was unable to find a new working phone number for him and the contact person at the county Game Management Advisory Commission has not gotten back to me. I personally don't care if they ever make any "improvements", only that it be a range where all firearms and calibers are allowed without having to have any permission slip from the government.
From the BLNR submission at the 2/23 meeting: "...authorize the use of all legally possessed and used firearms... and ammunition...".
file:///C:/Users/User/Documents/Gun%20Stuff%20New%20HP/big%20island%20shooting%20range%20mm16%20blnr%20official%20statement%2002%2023%2018.pdf
Still not sure about hunting license requirement. Will call tomorrow.
I simply stated that the hearing with the DLNR board was 10 days ago, I was there for the hearing and provided testimony. I listened to what was said, stipulations that were discussed in the hearing. There were details that needed to be discussed post-hearing. I met with every key person there, from the Chief and #2 DLNR guy and those from On Target and from the public side. Yes the conversations afterward were a bit more detailed, but there is still a process and drafting of the overall plan. If the Big Island wants a range, this is about the best way to expedite that process. People need to be patient, but I can say those involved in the process at the DOCARE and DLNR board level are sympathetic.
As mentioned it would just take a few idiots to blow it.
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This is good to hear! Steps forward at last. Can't expect the moon overnight, but any small step in the right direction is welcome! Thanks for all the people that made it happen!
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I will remain cautiously optimistic. I would like to see both proposed locations come to fruition. My home is close to the range area in the Manuka National Forest.
If this happens sooner rather than later I would consider early retirement. It would be great if some of us try to reinstate the Big Island Gun Club and maybe become an arm of the HRA. Loosely organize all the splinter groups and clubs around the island under one organization for representation and activism purposes. I would like to see as many people as possible support the range(s) and have friends of the range clean up days and group ammo buys like we used to have when I first lived there. If we could have group ammo buys then we can also do group powder and primer buys as well.
Am I living in a utopian world? Probably so.
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I will remain cautiously optimistic. I would like to see both proposed locations come to fruition. My home is close to the range area in the Manuka National Forest.
If this happens sooner rather than later I would consider early retirement. It would be great if some of us try to reinstate the Big Island Gun Club and maybe become an arm of the HRA. Loosely organize all the splinter groups and clubs around the island under one organization for representation and activism purposes. I would like to see as many people as possible support the range(s) and have friends of the range clean up days and group ammo buys like we used to have when I first lived there. If we could have group ammo buys then we can also do group powder and primer buys as well.
Am I living in a utopian world? Probably so.
Aloha Dave. The Manuka site is still a possibility, however, it was pretty clear and accepted by all in attendance that the best path forward is to concentrate on MM16 first. There was no real opposition to the possibility of Manuka following suit, however focusing on one site has a greater chance of success and the success of MM16 will directly impact the opportunity for Manuka. It is a way to prove viability, or there are those who could completely eff it up for everyone.
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Just called BLNR office and was told yes, you do need a hunting license to shoot there. I didn't ask, but that obviously implies that if you are shooting there without a hunting license and enforcement officers show up you can be cited.
(I suspected as much since the 6 sentence press release by the state uses the words "hunting" or "hunter" 6 times.)
Is there any government permission slip required to shoot at the Oahu public range?
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Just called BLNR office and was told yes, you do need a hunting license to shoot there. I didn't ask, but that obviously implies that if you are shooting there without a hunting license and enforcement officers show up you can be cited.
(I suspected as much since the 6 sentence press release by the state uses the words "hunting" or "hunter" 6 times.)
Is there any government permission slip required to shoot at the Oahu public range?
16MM is not a public range
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Is there any government permission slip required to shoot at the Oahu public range?
Only requirement at Koko Head range is sign into the logbook.
I would expect the hunting permit is a permanent requirement for MM16 unless they change the zoning or ownership of the land. And you wouldn't do that since it could jeopardize the future of that range.
Hunters ed isn't a big deal. Its a good class to attend, I enjoyed it. Only thing is you have to pay the annual permitting fee which isn't much.
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Thanks for answering my question zippz. :shaka:
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Hunters ed isn't a big deal. Its a good class to attend, I enjoyed it. Only thing is you have to pay the annual permitting fee which isn't much.
Just did the new online academic stuff, now have to wait until 4/17 to do the final "in-person" session.
If I read the permit stuff correctly, it is no cost for resident geezers.
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Just called BLNR office and was told yes, you do need a hunting license to shoot there. I didn't ask, but that obviously implies that if you are shooting there without a hunting license and enforcement officers show up you can be cited.
(I suspected as much since the 6 sentence press release by the state uses the words "hunting" or "hunter" 6 times.)
Is there any government permission slip required to shoot at the Oahu public range?
As stated this is not, nor was it designed to be an open public shooting range. It is open to segments of the public that are participating in legitimate hunting purposes ON designated hunting lands. I don't know if you read the other post, but in the meeting, it was ABSOLUTELY clear that the shooting range was in support of the HUNTERS SAFETY PROGRAM. Giving hunters the ability to practice their skill and to ensure the function of the weapon for the safety of the hunter and to help ensure the ethical harvest of game animals. In the meeting, it was stated that a hunting license was necessary and that use of a caliber used for legitimate hunting purposes. I don't care if someone disagrees with the caliber choice for hunting, that is another topic.
So if we look at this logically, what gives you the right to possess and fire a weapon on lands designated as hunting areas? You need a hunting license and have an appropriate firearm/caliber for hunting. They cannot just merely bypass this. For the DLNR to justify, and reasonably so, the use of the 40 acres AND the 1 mile of land behind, it must fall under a specific purpose for the designated hunting land.
People can piss and moan all they like, just like they do here all the time, but if someone cannot see the potential to lead to acceptance and other range possibilities, then too bad. If nothing else we can be happy for the hunters who are trying to enjoy their activity. It seems like too many people think about ME, ME, ME. I don't generally hunt there, nor do I plan on shooting there either, but I am happy to lend support if it benefits others in the sporting firearms community. Others should also.
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As stated this is not, nor was it designed to be an open public shooting range. It is open to segments of the public that are participating in legitimate hunting purposes ON designated hunting lands. I don't know if you read the other post, but in the meeting, it was ABSOLUTELY clear that the shooting range was in support of the HUNTERS SAFETY PROGRAM. Giving hunters the ability to practice their skill and to ensure the function of the weapon for the safety of the hunter and to help ensure the ethical harvest of game animals. In the meeting, it was stated that a hunting license was necessary and that use of a caliber used for legitimate hunting purposes. I don't care if someone disagrees with the caliber choice for hunting, that is another topic.
So if we look at this logically, what gives you the right to possess and fire a weapon on lands designated as hunting areas? You need a hunting license and have an appropriate firearm/caliber for hunting. They cannot just merely bypass this. For the DLNR to justify, and reasonably so, the use of the 40 acres AND the 1 mile of land behind, it must fall under a specific purpose for the designated hunting land.
People can piss and moan all they like, just like they do here all the time, but if someone cannot see the potential to lead to acceptance and other range possibilities, then too bad. If nothing else we can be happy for the hunters who are trying to enjoy their activity. It seems like too many people think about ME, ME, ME. I don't generally hunt there, nor do I plan on shooting there either, but I am happy to lend support if it benefits others in the sporting firearms community. Others should also.
I'm trying to clarify what the actual rules are, as ambiguity or lack of clarity could result in someone being cited (for using unapproved caliber ammunition or firearms, as has happened in the past at that location).
Your claim that the caliber must be approved for hunting is directly contradictory to the approved submission from the BLNR (which I quoted earlier and included the link). Are you saying that that document is invalid? Is there an updated document? Please provide us with access to whatever your source is for that claim. People need to know what the rules are so they can follow the rules.
Someone here earlier said that he had confirmed with someone from DOCARE that .22LR was an acceptable round to fire there. He and his source are wrong?
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16MM is not a public range
You'd better call DLNR and BLNR and alert them to the error in their document (linked to above) of February 23, 2018 that declares:
"DESIGNATE A PORTION... OF PUBLIC HUNTING AREA [16MM]... AS A PUBLIC SHOOTING RANGE..." [All caps in original. It is repeated again in upper and lower case TWICE in the "Summary", including in the "RECOMMENDATION".]
The document also refers to that specific area again, four times, as currently: "an unofficial public shooting range".
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You'd better call DLNR and BLNR and alert them to the error in their document (linked to above) of February 23, 2018 that declares:
"DESIGNATE A PORTION... OF PUBLIC HUNTING AREA [16MM]... AS A PUBLIC SHOOTING RANGE..." [All caps in original. It is repeated again in upper and lower case TWICE in the "Summary", including in the "RECOMMENDATION".]
The document also refers to that specific area again, four times, as currently: "an unofficial public shooting range".
my apologies
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Forgive the basic question, will the range have RSO or will it be shoot on your own?
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I'm trying to clarify what the actual rules are, as ambiguity or lack of clarity could result in someone being cited (for using unapproved caliber ammunition or firearms, as has happened in the past at that location).
Your claim that the caliber must be approved for hunting is directly contradictory to the approved submission from the BLNR (which I quoted earlier and included the link). Are you saying that that document is invalid? Is there an updated document? Please provide us with access to whatever your source is for that claim. People need to know what the rules are so they can follow the rules.
Someone here earlier said that he had confirmed with someone from DOCARE that .22LR was an acceptable round to fire there. He and his source are wrong?
I made zero claims. I am telling you what was actually said in the DLNR board meeting, 23rd Feb. You must also understand that what was said during the hearing was not a finalization of all the rules as the hearing was just about designating the land. I will say that the Board stated that they felt the verbiage should reflect the need for a valid hunting license and valid hunting calibers. I guess DOCARE and everyone there in support of the initiative could have balked at the DLNR board and sank it right there, but I will tell you that a former head of the HRA, the group trying for the public range in Kona and all others there were very supportive of what was occurring, myself included.
Also, consider that what is finalized may be different than the what may have been discussed in the hearing. I am not going off of a news story. I did have discussions with Farrell and I am not going to speak for him, nor describe in detail what we may have discussed, but I think he would be supportive of a general public range space that isn't specifically directed at the hunter's ed program. I will also tell you that he is supportive of those using the area and may not necessarily like being bound over by the current laws to enforce. DOCARE and the DLNR board are supportive.
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Forgive the basic question, will the range have RSO or will it be shoot on your own?
As of the hearing on 23 Feb, it was briefly explained to the board about how it is currently being done. This was followed by brief discussions into future options to address this and this was not something that was on the agenda for the hearing as it shouldn't be. Brief discussions are best at this point as it was just to get over hurdle #1 which was land designation. It is best that I take this same queue to wind up further discussion on my behalf. Hope to see it through for the benefit of those who may be able to use the location.
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I will remain cautiously optimistic. I would like to see both proposed locations come to fruition. My home is close to the range area in the Manuka National Forest.
If this happens sooner rather than later I would consider early retirement. It would be great if some of us try to reinstate the Big Island Gun Club and maybe become an arm of the HRA. Loosely organize all the splinter groups and clubs around the island under one organization for representation and activism purposes. I would like to see as many people as possible support the range(s) and have friends of the range clean up days and group ammo buys like we used to have when I first lived there. If we could have group ammo buys then we can also do group powder and primer buys as well.
Am I living in a utopian world? Probably so.
I’m in to revive BISC.
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Forgive the basic question, will the range have RSO or will it be shoot on your own?
If you need an RSO, message me. My creds are current. I can also do reloading classes.
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As of the hearing on 23 Feb, it was briefly explained to the board about how it is currently being done. This was followed by brief discussions into future options to address this and this was not something that was on the agenda for the hearing as it shouldn't be. Brief discussions are best at this point as it was just to get over hurdle #1 which was land designation. It is best that I take this same queue to wind up further discussion on my behalf. Hope to see it through for the benefit of those who may be able to use the location.
So not determined yet until they get land designation?
Is there a plan for how many lanes there will be and the distance?
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Just spoke on the phone with head of DOCARE Andrew Choy re firearms/calibers allowed to be used at 16MM public shooting range.
"All .22s, handguns" etc. are allowed, the current rules "effectively lifts shooting caliber restrictions". No "incendiary devices".
He expects that said rules will be posted in the fairly near future.
And via email:
Per our conversation, here is the link to §13-121-6, Hawaii Administrative Rules: http://files.hawaii.gov/dlnr/dofaw/rules/Chap121a.pdf
These rules apply to the immediate 3 acres at Mile Marker 16 where the existing target shooting activity is occurring.
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So not determined yet until they get land designation?
Is there a plan for how many lanes there will be and the distance?
The land approval was agreed upon at the hearing. Finalization of range SOP and rules would naturally follow the land board hearing. The State AG rep in the meeting would work with officials in drafting new amendments. It is a process. Just spoke on the phone with head of DOCARE Andrew Choy re firearms/calibers allowed to be used at 16MM public shooting range.
"All .22s, handguns" etc. are allowed, the current rules "effectively lifts shooting caliber restrictions". No "incendiary devices".
He expects that said rules will be posted in the fairly near future.
And via email:
Per our conversation, here is the link to §13-121-6, Hawaii Administrative Rules: http://files.hawaii.gov/dlnr/dofaw/rules/Chap121a.pdf
These rules apply to the immediate 3 acres at Mile Marker 16 where the existing target shooting activity is occurring.
Robert Farrell is the Chief for DOCARE. Andrew is the program manager for the Hunters Ed program. They both support the MM16 and Manuka projects. Board meeting minutes are not yet online for 23 Feb.