2aHawaii
General Topics => Legal and Activism => Topic started by: Bunker on March 10, 2018, 03:17:58 PM
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The U.S. Department of Justice formally submitted a regulation on Saturday to ban “bump stocks,” a modification to high-capacity rifles that lets them fire like an automatic weapon.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2018/03/daniel-zimmerman/breaking-doj-reclassifies-bump-fire-stocks-machine-guns/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/03/10/doj-moves-outlaw-bump-stocks-making-them-illegal-own-sell/413237002/
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Then the definition of "machine gun" would have to be edited from what it currently is. Also go ahead and try enforcing and confiscating property from the People.
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Then the definition of "machine gun" would have to be edited from what it currently is.
Here's how AWR Hawkins put it today:
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/03/10/trumps-doj-moves-ban-manufacture-possession-bump-stocks/
On March 10 Sessions announced the DOJ was close to securing the ban. The DOJ is accomplishing this by redefining the term “machinegun” so that the term covers machineguns and non-machineguns as well. This allows the DOJ to treat firearm accessories that are not conversion devices in a manner consistent with conversion devices.
In other words, although bump stocks do not convert semiautomatics into automatics, redefining the term “machinegun” allows bump stocks to be regulated (banned).
[It's really sad, and scary, that this is the third occasion in about a month that Lewis Carroll has provided the same apt quote: ‘When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less.’]
Also go ahead and try enforcing and confiscating property from the People.
Especially sticks and PVC pipe and rubber bands and pants belt loops. Oh, and hands and arms. This is gonna be good. Fucking "multiburst trigger activator" morons. >:(
Excellent article on this "words have meaning" aspect in this very context at The Zelman Partisans:
http://zelmanpartisans.com/?p=4960
‘SPLAININ’
Words. Effing. Matter.
Gun owners want to know what you plan to ban next, so we can plan accordingly ourselves. Are you going to ban semiautomatic rifles based on the original AR-15 pattern, or are you going to ban double-single action 1911s, bullet-piercing bullets, ghost bullets, heat-seeking bullets, 30 caliber rapid-fire magazines, shoulder things that go up, and multi-burst trigger activators? None of which exist, but all of which have been proposed for bans.
(http://zelmanpartisans.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/trabant.jpg)
M1A2 Abrams Main Battle Tank
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To be honest, i knew about bump stocks/firing. But never looked into the topic/knew about (rubber bands, belt loop, etc...)until the media glorified bump stocks.
So thanks to the anti 2a media, im sure many more people now know about bump stock alternatives. Especially those who have bad intentions.
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So thanks to the anti 2a media, im sure many more people now know about bump stock alternatives. Especially those who have bad intentions.
This exactly. Now everyone knows about bump firing semi-autos.
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Then the definition of "machine gun" would have to be edited from what it currently is. Also go ahead and try enforcing and confiscating property from the People.
First we need to find out what the definition of "is" is...................
Confiscation and enforcement is easy if you have a firearm registra..........................tion :(
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Apparently it's a race to see who can come up with the most inane nonsense. Will "a piece of plastic that attaches to a firearm is now "a machinegun"", or "we'll make up some words that literally don't mean anything and ban those... how about "multiburst trigger activator"?" take home the big prize? Neither the Three Stooges nor the Marx Brothers could top this ignoramus fest. (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/images/smilies/facepalm.gif)
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/03/12/trumps-doj-declares-plastic-bump-stocks-machine-guns-order-ban/
Trump’s DOJ Declares Plastic Bump Stocks ‘Machine Guns’ in Order to Ban Them
On Monday, President Trump’s Department of Justice (DOJ) announced they are declaring bump stocks to be “machine guns” in order to ban them.
A bump stock is not a firearm; it is a firearm accessory. The DOJ is declaring them to be “machine guns” in order to ban them.
A March 12 press release put forth by the DOJ, says:
The Department of Justice is supporting President Trump’s absolute commitment to ensuring the safety and security of every American by submitting to the Office of Management and Budget a proposed regulation to clarify that bump stock type devices are machine guns under federal law, which will effectively ban the manufacture, sale or possession of these devices.
[What?! No $200 tax stamp availability?!]
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Trump just tweeted that the DOJ will make the ruling today to ban bump stocks. But I'm not sure what this portion means " mandated comment period".
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Trump just tweeted that the DOJ will make the ruling today to ban bump stocks. But I'm not sure what this portion means " mandated comment period".
When the ATF published new rules to ban green-tip .223/5.56 ammo as "armor piercing", there was a huge uproar. There's a mandatory requirement that the ATF ask for public comments/input prior to finalization. In the turmoil, ATF said "Ooops! We didn't mean to publish that change. That would be wrong. :P" They quickly withdrew the changes.
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Just curious on this.
You guys don't think bump-stocks turn semi-auto rifles into machine guns?
One conscious pull of the trigger and the gun will keep firing as long as you keep your trigger depressed.
Basically one pull of the trigger. (And recoil control)
Isn't that the definition of a machine gun? (Repeated firing with one pull of the trigger)
And can't you be arrested just for possessing parts to convert to full auto, like a full auto sear, etc.
(HPD guy was busted for that during chicken fight crackdown / FBI employee / HPD corruption scandal a while back)
Belt loop, rubber band, redneck engineering will always be around.
But belt loops and rubber bands are just that. Redneck engineering. (God bless rednecks) they are made solely to convert a semi-auto into a full auto.
I'll admit I haven't finished my homework on this.
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Just curious on this.
You guys don't think bump-stocks turn semi-auto rifles into machine guns?
One conscious pull of the trigger and the gun will keep firing as long as you keep your trigger depressed.
Basically one pull of the trigger. (And recoil control)
Isn't that the definition of a machine gun? (Repeated firing with one pull of the trigger)
And can't you be arrested just for possessing parts to convert to full auto, like a full auto sear, etc.
(HPD guy was busted for that during chicken fight crackdown / FBI employee / HPD corruption scandal a while back)
Belt loop, rubber band, redneck engineering will always be around.
I'll admit I haven't finished my homework on this.
that is not the definition of a machine gun
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Trump just tweeted that the DOJ will make the ruling today to ban bump stocks. But I'm not sure what this portion means " mandated comment period".
The NRA backed this with the language that included "and other devices" ... very disturbing.
HOWEVER... Gun Owners of America is preparing for a lawsuit to be filed.
I'm a member of BOTH GOA and NRA. HRA too... but didnt get any membership renewal reminders as I looked back to see it expired in February.
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that is not the definition of a machine gun
Really?
You're going with the techinical definition of single function of the trigger?
Maybe they should just use my definition (quoting Humpty Dumpty, see above. :rofl:)
At worst they should tax stamp 'em.
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Really?
You're going with the techinical definition of single function of the trigger?
Maybe they should just use my definition (quoting Humpty Dumpty, see above. :rofl:)
i'm going with what the law says (well, until the DOJ/president/ATF change the decision, and then i still won't agree with them)
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Just curious on this.
You guys don't think bump-stocks turn semi-auto rifles into machine guns?
One conscious pull of the trigger and the gun will keep firing as long as you keep your trigger depressed.
Basically one pull of the trigger. (And recoil control)
Isn't that the definition of a machine gun? (Repeated firing with one pull of the trigger)
And can't you be arrested just for possessing parts to convert to full auto, like a full auto sear, etc.
(HPD guy was busted for that during chicken fight crackdown / FBI employee / HPD corruption scandal a while back)
Belt loop, rubber band, redneck engineering will always be around.
But belt loops and rubber bands are just that. Redneck engineering. (God bless rednecks) they are made solely to convert a semi-auto into a full auto.
I'll admit I haven't finished my homework on this.
Even with a slide fire/bump stock, that trigger is still resetting itself and the trigger isn't continuously depressed.
Still semi-auto.
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I get it.
I'm just thinking about the trigger finger, not the mechanical trigger.
Trigger Resetting itself. Key point.
Finger continuously depressing. No finger reset. One pull of the trigger and let the trigger go to work.
Binaries still rock, would be legal within my Humpty Dumpty definition and one could actually aim.
Unless they go with the "anything that could increase the rate of fire" ignoramus bullshit that our legislature came up with.
Bump stocks are a novelty item. Let them have 'em.
They feel victorious. We snicker cause we're the wiser and the kids go back to bed.
Everybody wins.
They didn't restrict our rights.
We still have belt loops and rubber bands.
No mag limits.
No assault weapons bans.
And they get clear backpacks.
That's what the NRA is thinking.
(I'm guessing)
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Im hoping trump is playing the left, hence why he added in the tweet "obama couldnt do". So he can say he tried to ban them.
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They didn't restrict our rights.
Please list all the other firearms related items for which possession can be cause for arrest, prosecution, imprisonment and/or fine that don't restrict our rights.
What about handgun mags greater than 10 round capacity?
What about pistols with removal mags and certain cosmetic features?
What about Mossberg 590 Shockwave and equivalents?
What about "stun guns"?
Etc.
And what about "registration"?
What about "permits to acquire"?
What about being photographed, fingerprinted, enrolled in RapBack, and signing away your right to privacy regarding you medical history?
What about no bearing arms outside the home?
Etc.
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I don't even understand the question.
Of course I'm, admittedly, kind of an idiot.
None of those have to do with machine guns and bump stocks as far as I can tell.
They restricted our rights in 1934.
Now the stuff you mentioned above, that's a whole new conversation.
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I don't even understand the question.
Of course I'm, admittedly, kind of an idiot.
None of those have to do with machine guns and bump stocks as far as I can tell.
They restricted our rights in 1934.
Now the stuff you mentioned above, that's a whole new conversation.
Good grief man.
All the things I listed above are examples where they agree with your comment re bump stocks that "They didn't restrict our rights." Once you join the club of the "I support the Second Amendment, but ... x, y, and z are not infringements, but simply commonsense gun safety regulations..." there is absolutely no end to what will be "regulated" (i.e. made a criminal offense to possess). (See: Hawaii, Maryland, New Jersey, California, New York, Connecticut, etc.) There is absolutely no evidence that will withstand critical scrutiny that ANY of the things on those lists, least of all making possession of bumpstocks a crime, will have any beneficial effect on "public safety". It's all completely irrational and pure emotion-based hyperbole (obstructing view of the underlying very rational agenda of civilian disarmament). Once you join them in the "it doesn't restrict your rights" theme, there's no end to it... and their end, obviously, is total civilian disarmament... and some of them will even admit that now in the current hysteria. "Why does anyone need more than 10/7/3 rounds in a handgun? Well, except for the police of course. Having 10/7/3 round limitation does not restrict your rights." Etc. If you don't think "they" will take away everything, one increment at a time, all the while claiming "they didn't restrict our rights", well, you haven't been paying attention.
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First time i shot an AR15 was in Waikiki, i had 5 shots to shoot, First one hit the target the next 4 went fully semi auto into the ceiling because i wasnt shoulder the firearm tightly.
Bump firing is a function of Semi Auto firearms.
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"The real danger is from those ostensibly on the side of the Second Amendment making any concessions to those who are intent on eradicating it."
sorry, I stole that line out of a gun magazine, but it fits so appropriately here. In essence, you're now in agreement that a particular "gun control" measure works, i.e. "ban bump stocks" will result in reduced crime, save lives. Drink some more of the magic Kool-Aid.
What's next?
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"The real danger is from those ostensibly on the side of the Second Amendment making any concessions to those who are intent on eradicating it."
sorry, I stole that line out of a gun magazine, but it fits so appropriately here. In essence, you're now in agreement that a particular "gun control" measure works, i.e. "ban bump stocks" will result in reduced crime, save lives. Drink some more of the magic Kool-Aid.
What's next?
It's even worse than that. He's saying that even though it obviously has no effect on crime, it's okay to ban bump stocks because that "didn't restrict our rights". But that's what they say about the lists of things I wrote... they think none of that, or for that matter, nothing at all that they can ban or criminalize "restricts our rights".
As you say, "What's next?"
I suspect we'll find out shortly.
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First time i shot an AR15 was in Waikiki, i had 5 shots to shoot, First one hit the target the next 4 went fully semi auto into the ceiling because i wasnt shoulder the firearm tightly.
Bump firing is a function of Semi Auto firearms.
If that happens again in a few months you will be a felon and subject to the state monopoly of violence if the jackbooted thugs are witness to it or a report of it.
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Even the NRA is willing to give them bump stocks.
If that restricts our rights we might as well petition for machine guns. File suit.
(Think we'll win that battle?)
The messed up thing is the March for Lie kid saying outright they won't stop for the inch, they wan't the mile.
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Even the NRA is willing to give them bump stocks.
If that restricts our rights we might as well petition for machine guns. File suit.
(Think we'll win that battle?)
The messed up thing is the March for Lie kid saying outright they won't stop for the inch, they wan't the mile.
Once you "agree" that bumpstocks et al. (aka "any device that accelerates the rate of fire of any semi-automatic firearm") either "should" be banned, or "could be" banned without a violation of the right to keep and bear arms, as I've said before, you've capitulated to the argument that if THAT is "commonsense", well, so is THIS (we don't need to "prove" that it's bad, it just is, i.e. "commonsense"). There is no rational, evidence-based reason to ban bumpstocks et al., just like there is no reason to ban anything at all that they want to ban. And, don't kid yourself, they want to ban everything that would allow the civilian population to substantially alter the odds of being loaded into boxcars. It's not a slippery slope, it's a cliff.
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Even the NRA is willing to give them bump stocks.
If that restricts our rights we might as well petition for machine guns. File suit.
(Think we'll win that battle?)
The messed up thing is the March for Lie kid saying outright they won't stop for the inch, they wan't the mile.
I heard that speech. That's what bothers me and why the 2a has to be either 100% or not at all. Because each gun law uses the prior law as justification to infringe more.
At least now MSD has to use clear backpacks and Hogg is complaining its infringing on his 1st amendment right.