2aHawaii
General Topics => Legal and Activism => Topic started by: 6716J on April 10, 2018, 11:58:06 AM
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So I am thinking of having my own little 1 man protest. But..... I want to make sure I don't end up on the wrong side of matching bracelets.
I am thinking of just wearing an empty holster around town when I'm out, but my concern is having HPD decide I'm disturbing the peace or worse. Sad I have to think this way :( but better safe than in jail.
Also thought of having a bright orange training pistol with it too, but don't know how that would be interpreted. Could I say its for educational purposes (it's a reach I know)?
Article 23. Replica Guns
Sections:
40-23.1 Definitions.
40-23.2 Prohibitions.
40-23.3 Violation—Penalty.
Sec. 40-23.1 Definitions.
“Firearm” shall mean the same as it is defined in HRS Section 134-1.
“Law enforcement officer” shall mean any public servant, whether employed by the state, the city or the United States, vested by law with a duty to maintain public order or to make arrests for offenses or to enforce the criminal laws, whether that duty extends to all offenses or is limited to a specific class of offenses.
“Replica gun” shall mean any toy or other object which bears such a resemblance to an actual firearm that a reasonable person would have difficulty visually distinguishing it from an actual firearm, and which lacks any feature or aspect which would serve as a signal to allow a person to readily distinguish the replica gun from an actual firearm by sight. The term shall not include an actual firearm.
(Added by Ord. 03-24)
Sec. 40-23.2 Prohibitions.
(a) No person shall carry or display a replica gun on any street, alley, public road, or on any public lands unless such replica gun is in a suitable case or securely wrapped.
(b) No person shall draw or brandish a replica gun in the presence of a law enforcement officer engaged in the performance of his or her duties.
(c) Nothing in this article shall be deemed to prevent any person who has obtained a hunting license pursuant to HRS Chapter 183D from engaging in hunting in accordance with law.
(d) In the event a replica gun is also an “air gun,” as defined in Section 41-8.1, the exceptions in Section 41-8.4 shall also be exceptions to the prohibitions in this article.
(e) Nothing in this article shall prevent carrying or display of a replica gun by a person involved in a living history presentation or other activity for historical interpretation or educational purposes, or by a person participating in a parade if such activity or parade participant is associated with an established historical organization, museum, military preservation organization, or other group with a mission to educate the public at various events through the use of historical artifacts, clothing, vehicles, aircraft, maritime vessels, and firearms or replicas thereof.
(Added by Ord. 03-24; Am. Ord. 03-35)
Sec. 40-23.3 Violation—Penalty.
Any person violating the provisions of Section 40-23.2(a) shall be deemed guilty of a petty misdemeanor and upon conviction shall be punished by a fine not exceeding $500, or by imprisonment not exceeding 30 days.
Any person violating the provisions of Section 40-23.2(b) shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and upon conviction by a fine not exceeding $1,000, or by imprisonment not exceeding one year.
by Ord. 03-24)
by Ord. 03-24)
Let me know your thoughts before I start waving at everyone from O triple C
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Specifically, what would you be protesting?
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Another member did wear his plate carrier in Waikiki also recently. There's a thread about it.
Maybe call HPD a head of time to let them know where you will be. Some open carriers do that when doing their 1 man exercization of rights.
Hope you got a go pro just in case HPD detains you for no reason.
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Specifically, what would you be protesting?
That we can't carry firearms either open or concealed. And in the foreseeable future it won't happen as long as the current set of politicians and policies are in control.
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Are you a good public speaker?
If you are going to do a protest like that, you should be prepared to present facts and be ready to engage in a debate.
You don't want people to get erroneous information or see you as being a crazy gun nut.
Dress nice and be clean cut. Don't look like a homeless crackhead.
You should also have a partner discreetly shooting clear , steady, widescreen HD video and audio.
NOT that amateurish vertical cellphone video.
The partner should be close enough to pick up any verbal exchanges in case something stupid should happen.
Your partner should be able to keep you STEADY in the picture at all times, not swinging around wildly looking at cute chicks in short shorts.
The camera should be fully charged with a spare battery if possible. Or have another cellphone as a spare.
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Are you a good public speaker?
If you are going to do a protest like that, you should be prepared to present facts and be ready to engage in a debate.
You don't want people to get erroneous information or see you as being a crazy gun nut.
Dress nice and be clean cut. Don't look like a homeless crackhead.
You should also have a partner discreetly shooting clear , steady, widescreen HD video and audio.
NOT that amateurish vertical cellphone video.
The partner should be close enough to pick up any verbal exchanges in case something stupid should happen.
Your partner should be able to keep you STEADY in the picture at all times, not swinging around wildly looking at cute chicks in short shorts.
The camera should be fully charged with a spare battery if possible. Or have another cellphone as a spare.
I'm pretty sure all of the above are unattributed (aka "stolen") quotes from Madison arguing for the First Amendment in Federalist Papers No. 10. :shaka:
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That we can't carry firearms either open or concealed. And in the foreseeable future it won't happen as long as the current set of politicians and policies are in control.
Most people who take this route come across as ignorant far rightwing nutjobs and in turn have the exact opposite effect, making everyone on the pro side look bad. In other words, do more harm than good. Therefore I would agree with Old Fart in that "if" you choose to do something like this, be sure you are able to speak coherently with a rational and educated point of view and be a good representative. If in any doubt, take the high road.
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A few members of 2Ahawaii have done "empty holster protests" before, around town in general public areas and stores, and also at the State Capitol during opening day of legislation last year, no fake guns in holsters though.... Sadly
1. Few participated
2. No one notices
Unless you are being obnoxious and really disturbing the peace, there is nothing illegal about wearing a holster.
In fact, the only place someone actually noticed, was at the range on the silhouette side. I was wearing a holster, empty of course, and was politely asked to remove it. They said it was because they didn't want unknowing patrons to think holster draw was allowed. Mag carriers, no prob
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There is no distrubing the peace law here. Wearing an empty holster is not a violation of any law here.
If you had some type of training item like a blue rubber pistol don't be surprised if police are called. Just speak to them nicely and you shouldn't have a problem. you could always carry a water gun that is clear but then people might think you are just crazy. Heck they might think you are crazy just for an empty holster too. I think most people would have no idea what you are trying to protester unless you wear a shirt saying something.
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A few members of 2Ahawaii have done "empty holster protests" before, around town in general public areas and stores, and also at the State Capitol during opening day of legislation last year, no fake guns in holsters though.... Sadly
1. Few participated
2. No one notices
Unless you are being obnoxious and really disturbing the peace, there is nothing illegal about wearing a holster.
In fact, the only place someone actually noticed, was at the range on the silhouette side. I was wearing a holster, empty of course, and was politely asked to remove it. They said it was because they didn't want unknowing patrons to think holster draw was allowed. Mag carriers, no prob
I think the protest would have had more effect if we were inside the capitol building breezeway instead of just on the grass far away from the other event.
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I think the protest would have had more effect if we were inside the capitol building breezeway instead of just on the grass far away from the other event.
...or if we had 1000 Hawaii gun owners, than give a rip about their rights and that vote, show up.
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...or if we had 1000 Hawaii gun owners, than give a rip about their rights and that vote, show up.
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Sad but true.
Such a mass protest would need more than 2 weeks notice and the cooperation of every gun club and business.
A key problem is logistics. There is precious little parking around that area.
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...or if we had 1000 Hawaii gun owners, than give a rip about their rights and that vote, show up.
i wonder if there are that many in the whole state who even bother to vote based upon Second Amendment issues?
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Hm, stunts like this (fake/prop/training/water gun in open holster) are the rights version of those protests and BS crap we hate about the left. Does it work on changing the minds of the opposition? Go for it if you want. Effective? Doubtful.
I guess it depends how bored and passionate you are about open carry?
That would be really funny if wearing an empty holster was illegal.
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Sad but true.
Such a mass protest would need more than 2 weeks notice and the cooperation of every gun club and business.
A key problem is logistics. There is precious little parking around that area.
If we had the funding of Soro's then we could organize that fast...
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If we had the funding of Soro's then we could organize that fast...
Can do it with little funding or we can get donations if needed. We do need volunteers to make it happen.
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Hm, stunts like this (fake/prop/training/water gun in open holster) are the rights version of those protests and BS crap we hate about the left. Does it work on changing the minds of the opposition? Go for it if you want. Effective? Doubtful.
I guess it depends how bored and passionate you are about open carry?
That would be really funny if wearing an empty holster was illegal.
"Stunts" are what get the attention of the media and get you a spot on TV news. Pussy hats, vagina costumes, outrageous signs, and catchy slogans (logical or not) get you attention.
Whether or not we want to admit it, emotional appeals are more effective than facts. People won't understand or remember the facts the first (or 2nd, or 3rd ...) times they hear or read them, but they will remember how something makes them feel. That's one reason the appeal to protect second amendment rights and prevent gun confiscation is used more often than facts and stats to support gun rights. People who believe strongly in protecting those rights feel moved to action more than people who simply agree with the stats.
If a holster or other visual prop creates an emotional bond with the audience, it's more likely they will support the cause. I think the concept of tyrannical rule in the US is so abstract, most don't get it. That's even after the lawlessness we see within government, the DOJ and courts today.
We're at a point where the gun control people have convinced their followers that guns are bad. Now we are in the position of proving them wrong at a qualitative level (good vs. bad).
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Should have an theme or message behind it.
I suggest having a couple other women participating with you. Then you can show that firearms can help anyone with self-defense, and it benefits women the most.
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Should have an theme or message behind it.
I suggest having a couple other women participating with you. Then you can show that firearms can help anyone with self-defense, and it benefits women the most.
That's why the Mrs. helps at the HDF booth at the gun shows. She talks to the wives/gf's.
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DO NOT wear a "bright orange" training pistol or anything that remotely looks like a real gun
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DO NOT wear a "bright orange" training pistol or anything that remotely looks like a real gun
The law however does allow for it
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Pop tart gun. Conversation starter for sure.
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Pop tart gun. Conversation starter for sure.
Or if you could get a small "dummy"/mannequin hand with forefinger pointed and the thumb up, another instance of "sufficient evidence of wrongdoing" to discipline and/or suspend a student.
And the only tool that Hawaii residents are allowed to "bear" for self-defense outside the home.
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Or get a bear suit and just use the arms. "bear arms". I had a shirt that had a guy with "bear arms". But I lost it.
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Well thanks for all the responses as they are what I was looking for. Both for and against.
I don't want to come off as some half witted crack head and my public speaking skills sometimes leave something to be desired. So I may just ditch this approach.
I'll try to make it Wednesday to the brewseum meeting to get to know some of you.
Mahalo
:Shaka:
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