2aHawaii
Tools and Uses => Firearms and Accessories => Topic started by: drck1000 on May 18, 2018, 01:22:40 PM
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Starting to look at low powered variable optic for an AR. Mostly to try in a more precision rifle. Would be my first venture into this area. All my ARs have been irons or red dot. I have experience in 3-9x and higher power optics on bolt guns, but not on ARs.
Would like to keep in the $400-600 range, but I am open to more. I’d love to get an USO 1-8, but think that’s not realistic right now. I’ve wanted one of those for a while.
Right now looking at Vortex Strike Eagle, Primary Arms, and Burris. I’m also really interested in a Vortex Viper PST, but that’s a little expensive. I’d love to also have a Steiner or Vortex Razor, but I think those are a little outside the range right now.
I would like the 1x to be close to utility and forgiveness of eye relief of a red dot and decent clarity on the magnified end. Vortex Strike Eagle is probably the leader now, but I really am open.
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I have the PA 1-6 on one of my AR's and 2 PA prism scopes (3x and 5x) on 2 other AR's
I really like the PA optics. price is not good. works well. reticle is very good.
I have a couple Vortex optics on my bolt action rifles, but not the ones you listed above. I like Vortex too.
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I have the PA 1-6 on one of my AR's and 2 PA prism scopes (3x and 5x) on 2 other AR's
I really like the PA optics. price is not good. works well. reticle is very good.
I have a couple Vortex optics on my bolt action rifles, but not the ones you listed above. I like Vortex too.
“Price is not good”? I thought the models I was looking at with the ACSS reticle were decently priced.
Been looking at higher priced scopes last night. Kept playing the “well if I’m gonna spend $500, what’s $700” kinda game. Think I’ll keep this under $1000, but then I’ll see a sale for something in the $1600 range for say $1200 and will tempt me. Haha
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Sorry, typo. Haha!
I meant price is very good.
I didn't read my post after either.
Sorry about that. :shaka:
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How far are you looking to shoot with it? I’ve had the Steiner P4Xi for a little while now and it’s a solid optic, especially for the money, but it maxes out at 4x. I’d only ever shot dots so the Steiner was a cheapish proof of concept for me. But I really want the Razor HD in a Geissele mount, it’s possible I’ll have one at the end of the month if I find a good sale. I’ve seen plenty of used P4s and mounts going for under $600, so it may be worth considering. Less manginficantion but probably a better quality optic.
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How far are you looking to shoot with it? I’ve had the Steiner P4Xi for a little while now and it’s a solid optic, especially for the money, but it maxes out at 4x. I’d only ever shot dots so the Steiner was a cheapish proof of concept for me. But I really want the Razor HD in a Geissele mount, it’s possible I’ll have one at the end of the month if I find a good sale. I’ve seen plenty of used P4s and mounts going for under $600, so it may be worth considering. Less manginficantion but probably a better quality optic.
Distance wise, I would say I’m looking for “help” in the 200-400 yard range, but realistically more precision in the 100-200 yard range than with a red dot.
I’ve shot a friend’s Accupoint 1-4x a little. I think they would be ok, but I was really wanting to try the 1-6x range, and 1-8x even more, but both as long as the price isn’t too bad and the 1x performance in terms of eye relief was similar to a red dot.
Yeah, I would love to have a Vortex Razor. But that price range also opens up to many other choices. I have a Viper PST on my 700, so I am really tempted to try the 1-6x PST.
Brownells has (or had) a sale on a Nikon 1-4x that got a decent review from Mrgunsngear for around $220 with a mount.
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Brownells just listed a sale on the Vortex Strike Fire 1-8 with Brownells cantilever mount for $399. . . so tempting. . .
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I have the Vortex Strike Eagle 1-6x on my AK. Works great at 50 yards...
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you can find vortex PST gen 2s on tacswap for around 550. thats the best deal you'll ever find.
also i have a vortex razor gen 2 1-6 thats amazing in every way besides weight.
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Opticsplanet has a promo on the Razor Gen II-e, thru 08/31, that includes a $250 GC w/ purchase.
The Gen II-e is ~4oz lighter than the original Razor, so perhaps the $250 GC could be used to help defray the cost of a Scalarworks Leap/Mount (assumimg it becomes available thru Opticsplanet at some future date).
Based upon a similar situation, and based on similar purpose, I would consider the Razor II-e (21 oz w/o mount) or the Elcan Spectre DR 1-4.
Good luck on your decision, and let us know what you eventually decide upon!
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I bought a Primary arms 1-6x second focal plane (SFP) for $200 blemished and on sale.
If I were to change, I would’ve gone with the 1-6x acss raptor first focal plane (FFP) because the chevron in the reticle of the 1-6 SFP is a bit too small and the horseshoe around it is annoying.
The 1-6 raptor FFP shouldn’t be a problem (when zoomed all the way in and the chevron looks way more bigger and easier to use than the SFP( based on the pictures of the aces raptor FFP reticle in action at the range)
But $200 for a blemished 1-6 SFP that doesn’t look blemished at all, I can’t complain too much.
Also I wish I went with the Aero SPR profile scope mount instead of the extended profile. The eye relief is maybe too forgiving.
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On another note, I was thinking about moving away from variable power optics. Lately I’ve been using a PA 2.5x prism with a macedon KRAM acog mount riser to accommodate my earmuffs and my helmet that was getting in the way of aiming, thus using a semi chin weld (jaw weld?).
So I was thinking about moving onto a fixed power 3x or 4x optic with a pistol red dot stacked on top of it like how you see some guys run acog a with a RMR on top.
Adjusting magnification on a scope doesn’t really fly with me as well as I’d like. A jaw/chin weld doesn’t bother me so much either.
Been trying to look for a Atibal MROC
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id highly recommend the Vortex Razor Gen II. Really really well made optic, though heavy. Insane customer service and the lifetime no questions asked warranty is untouched in the industry. I hemmed and hawed on the price but couldnt be happier that i bought one. Had it for several years now.
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id highly recommend the Vortex Razor Gen II. Really really well made optic, though heavy. Insane customer service and the lifetime no questions asked warranty is untouched in the industry. I hemmed and hawed on the price but couldnt be happier that i bought one. Had it for several years now.
I'd love to try one of those. I've heard excellent things about that model. I really like the Viper PST that I have on my Rem 700. Different line and different uses, but I continually hear great things about Vortex products. Have been thinking of trying their UH-1 red dot.
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Been putting in a bunch of OT lately, so should have a good amount of “gun funds” coming in. Been looking seriously at a LPVO to try. So far, narrowed down to a few to research more:
1) Vortex Razor HD 1-6 Gen II E - Seems to be one of the best bang for the buck LPVO and has gone through a number of refinements and testing.
2) NF 1-8 NX8 - Little higher than I’d like to spend, but really like the features and the 8x high end.
3) USO 1-6 SVS - First offering after USO’s reboot. Seems like excellent features at a decent price.
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I have a Vortex VIPER PST GEN II 2-10X32 FFP that I'm looking to part with. Its unopened and has just been sitting in my safe. I know it might not be what you are looking for but its an option.
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I have a Vortex VIPER PST GEN II 2-10X32 FFP that I'm looking to part with. Its unopened and has just been sitting in my safe. I know it might not be what you are looking for but its an option.
Thanks for the offer, but looking to stay with 1x (or as close as can). I have a Viper PST FFP 4-16 on my Rem 700. Love that thing.
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Vortex is generally the best budget bang for your buck.
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Vortex is generally the best budget bang for your buck.
You should get one! You know, birthday present! ;D
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PSA just had a sale on the viper 1-8x with mount and free shipping for under $300
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Im a strong believer in buy once cry once when it comes to optics. Anywhere you look you will prob see the NF ATACR 1-8 being the highest rated lpvo. Schmidt and bender has the short dot series, but imo its vastly overpriced. I would also look at kahles 1-6 on the high end. Razor gen 2 is always a safe bet because of their warranty. Im not a huge fan of burris, but been reading some good things on the newer xtr stuff. Gluck with the scope hunt!
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Im a strong believer in buy once cry once when it comes to optics. Anywhere you look you will prob see the NF ATACR 1-8 being the highest rated lpvo. Schmidt and bender has the short dot series, but imo its vastly overpriced. I would also look at kahles 1-6 on the high end. Razor gen 2 is always a safe bet because of their warranty. Im not a huge fan of burris, but been reading some good things on the newer xtr stuff. Gluck with the scope hunt!
The ATACR is a much different animal. They seem to get great reviews for sure, especially on some of the “sniper” sites. Seems definitely like a great scope, but it’s meant for more precision and longer ranges (>600 m) whereas the NX8 is more of a red dot replacement and lighter, which is what I’m looking for. That and the more compact NX8 is also what I had in mind. I came close to buying a NF 5-something for my Rem 700.
The Kahles is another that I looked at closely as well. Still considering.
I also looked at the S&B and yeah, they are super pricey. Don’t see the model that I had been looking at, so not sure if they are still making them.
I am very much for paying more for quality, but also very much purpose driven in selection.
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The ATACR is a much different animal. They seem to get great reviews for sure, especially on some of the “sniper” sites. Seems definitely like a great scope, but it’s meant for more precision and longer ranges (>600 m) whereas the NX8 is more of a red dot replacement and lighter, which is what I’m looking for. That and the more compact NX8 is also what I had in mind. I came close to buying a NF 5-something for my Rem 700.
The Kahles is another that I looked at closely as well. Still considering.
I also looked at the S&B and yeah, they are super pricey. Don’t see the model that I had been looking at, so not sure if they are still making them.
I am very much for paying more for quality, but also very much purpose driven in selection.
Another scope to look at, if u havent, is the minox zp8 1-8. With the ccr reticle. Becomes a red dot at low power. Shuld fit ur function perfectly. Def not cheap tho, as in anything great in this hobby lol.
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Another scope to look at, if u havent, is the minox zp8 1-8. With the ccr reticle. Becomes a red dot at low power. Shuld fit ur function perfectly. Def not cheap tho, as in anything great in this hobby lol.
Wow! That sucker is pricey!
About the same price as the S&B Short Dot (the one I was thinking about in my previous post) in the $3000-3500 range just for the optics. Dayum! I’ve shot the S&B and it was nice!
I’m accumulating s bunch of OT lately, but not sure that much. :(
I’d love to give the Minox or S&B a try.
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Wow! That sucker is pricey!
About the same price as the S&B Short Dot (the one I was thinking about in my previous post) in the $3000-3500 range just for the optics. Dayum! I’ve shot the S&B and it was nice!
I’m accumulating s bunch of OT lately, but not sure that much. :(
I’d love to give the Minox or S&B a try.
haha i know, its a crazy world to think of spending 3k on optics alone. Hopefully as time goes on, we start to see more and more optics in the 1-2k range that can be competitive with 1st tier stuff. Let us know what you get!
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Starting to look at low powered variable optic for an AR. Mostly to try in a more precision rifle. Would be my first venture into this area. All my ARs have been irons or red dot. I have experience in 3-9x and higher power optics on bolt guns, but not on ARs.
Would like to keep in the $400-600 range, but I am open to more. I’d love to get an USO 1-8, but think that’s not realistic right now. I’ve wanted one of those for a while.
Right now looking at Vortex Strike Eagle, Primary Arms, and Burris. I’m also really interested in a Vortex Viper PST, but that’s a little expensive. I’d love to also have a Steiner or Vortex Razor, but I think those are a little outside the range right now.
I would like the 1x to be close to utility and forgiveness of eye relief of a red dot and decent clarity on the magnified end. Vortex Strike Eagle is probably the leader now, but I really am open.
I have a Burris 1-4 scope with a CQB reticle that I was looking to sell. Not exactly what you were looking for but definitely under your budget and the optic has treated me well.
Another option you could consider is maybe just a fixed 6x scope? That will reach out to 500 yards no problem and for your price range you can get an American made quality scope. Do you really need a 1X? There are some fixed 3x or 4x scopes which can still be used at closer ranges too.
https://www.leupold.com/scopes/rifle-scopes/fx-3-6x42mm
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Starting to look at low powered variable optic for an AR. Mostly to try in a more precision rifle. Would be my first venture into this area. All my ARs have been irons or red dot. I have experience in 3-9x and higher power optics on bolt guns, but not on ARs.
Would like to keep in the $400-600 range, but I am open to more. I’d love to get an USO 1-8, but think that’s not realistic right now. I’ve wanted one of those for a while.
Right now looking at Vortex Strike Eagle, Primary Arms, and Burris. I’m also really interested in a Vortex Viper PST, but that’s a little expensive. I’d love to also have a Steiner or Vortex Razor, but I think those are a little outside the range right now.
I would like the 1x to be close to utility and forgiveness of eye relief of a red dot and decent clarity on the magnified end. Vortex Strike Eagle is probably the leader now, but I really am open.
Since I posted in another scope thread - save your money now for something of known quality. The optic is just as important as the rifle. It will be worth the wait. There's also a false paradigm that a higher magnification scope will get you to shoot more accurately or at farther distances - that's not true. If you are a 4 MOA shooter a higher magnification scope won't make you into a 1 MOA all day long shooter.
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Since I posted in another scope thread - save your money now for something of known quality. The optic is just as important as the rifle. It will be worth the wait. There's also a false paradigm that a higher magnification scope will get you to shoot more accurately or at farther distances - that's not true. If you are a 4 MOA shooter a higher magnification scope won't make you into a 1 MOA all day long shooter.
Thanks for the feedback. Money situation is now much different than when that post your quoted. Those were scopes that I was looking at back then based on excellent feedback for good quality, it now looking at higher quality ones. I still think the Vortex Viper PST is a good line (I have one on my Rem 700) though.
The part about more precision is relative to a basic red dot. Not looking for benchrest type precision, at lleast not with this particular setup with the LPVO.
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Thanks for the feedback. Money situation is now much different than when that post your quoted. Those were scopes that I was looking at back then based on excellent feedback for good quality, it now looking at higher quality ones. I still think the Vortex Viper PST is a good line (I have one on my Rem 700) though.
The part about more precision is relative to a basic red dot. Not looking for benchrest type precision, at lleast not with this particular setup with the LPVO.
What's your budget??
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What's your budget??
The NF NX8 and Kahles K16i are “in”.
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The NF NX8 and Kahles K16i are “in”.
Dang son you got some money to spend lol..... might as well just buy my Elcan ;-D you'll even save $500
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Dang son you got some money to spend lol..... might as well just buy my Elcan ;-D you'll even save $500
Gonna be going in Rapback soon too, so that might lead to more firearms as well. ;D
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Gonna be going in Rapback soon too, so that might lead to more firearms as well. ;D
Well apparently not a single person that has given HPD $43 for their rapback is actually in rapback....so.... there's that lol.
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I have a Trijicon accupoint tr26 for sale (1-6x24) mildot green (mil/mil) has dual illumination, fiber optic and tritium.
https://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product3.php?pid=TR25-C-200095
I love it but my vision has deteriorated a bit. I need more power.
It's been through 200 rounds of 308 win on an AR platform. About 50 on a bolt action. This scope has only been to bench and safe. $700obo shipped from Maui.
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Sorry I meant tr25
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I have a Trijicon accupoint tr26 for sale (1-6x24) mildot green (mil/mil) has dual illumination, fiber optic and tritium.
https://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product3.php?pid=TR25-C-200095
I love it but my vision has deteriorated a bit. I need more power.
It's been through 200 rounds of 308 win on an AR platform. About 50 on a bolt action. This scope has only been to bench and safe. $700obo shipped from Maui.
Thanks, but I’ve settled on one. Just have to put in the order.
I’m tempered try an Accupoint tho, mostly for the daylight “power” reticle.
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I would like the 1x to be close to utility and forgiveness of eye relief of a red dot and decent clarity on the magnified end.
Cannot help with scope choices, would just use quick release scope mounts if I were to buy an AR.
What i wonder about, is my difficulty first using cheaper scopes some time back and parallax. How does that affect 1-? scopes when dialed back to 1X or so?
I doubt they mimic a holo sight as far as tolerating eye misalignment.
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Cannot help with scope choices, would just use quick release scope mounts if I were to buy an AR.
What i wonder about, is my difficulty first using cheaper scopes some time back and parallax. How does that affect 1-? scopes when dialed back to 1X or so?
I doubt they mimic a holo sight as far as tolerating eye misalignment.
I’ve had the scope mount for like 6 months now. :facepalm:
Yeah, I want to try and see for myself. Test all of that. I have lots of time on guns with red dots, but want to try the wave of the future.
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I’ve had the scope mount for like 6 months now. :facepalm:
Yeah, I want to try and see for myself. Test all of that. I have lots of time on guns with red dots, but want to try the wave of the future.
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=35008.0
focus
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https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=35008.0
focus
Uhhh. I don’t have the scope yet.
After I finally get it, then game on. I’ll try it from my dad’s portch.
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Scope ordered last night! :geekdanc:
Brownell's shipping is usually pretty quick, so I'm hoping it comes in early next week.
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Progress
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Progress
focus
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focus
Haven’t tested yet, but it better focus ;D
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More progress ;D
First impressions are 1x and red dot is very impressive. Seems very forgiving on head position. Will be trying to test differences between it and an Aimpoint/EoTech. 4x still quite forgiving. But then 8x is noticeably less forgiving on head position, particularly with cheek weld/height. Didn’t quite notice that “transition” with other scopes (4-16, 5-25, etc). I had read many similar reviews about that, but interesting to see for myself.
Hope to have it out on the range in the next week or so.
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More progress ;D
First impressions are 1x and red dot is very impressive. Seems very forgiving on head position. Will be trying to test differences between it and an Aimpoint/EoTech. 4x still quite forgiving. But then 8x is noticeably less forgiving on head position, particularly with cheek weld/height. Didn’t quite notice that “transition” with other scopes (4-16, 5-25, etc). I had read many similar reviews about that, but interesting to see for myself.
Hope to have it out on the range in the next week or so.
parallax.
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parallax.
Difference between red dot and LPVO at 1x? Yeah, will be certainly trying to test. No, don’t expect the LPVO being as forgiving in that regard.
Difference between LPVO and higher mag scopes? I didn’t expect them to be similar with respect to forgiveness in head position, but the difference in 1x then to 4x then to 8x was def noticeable.
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Zeroed the LPVO and new upper today. I’m very happy with it. Did a quick borescope at home, maybe 15 yards. Didn’t move anything then. Was on paper at 50 yards, albeit low.
Nice weather at the range today. Got a little windy in the later relays, but awesome day overall.
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50 yards
Middle - M193 8-9 round (whatever was left in the box)
Top left - GD 62 gr
Top right - Hornady 55 gr
Bot left - GD
Bot right - Black Hills 77 gr OTM seconds
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100 yards
Top left - BH
Top right - Hornady
This upper seems to like this Hornady loading.
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100 yards
All BH. Was playing around with the reticle. The reticle is a 0.35 mil dot. Was playing with the various marks/holds. The wind was picking up on these as well.
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Overall very happy with this LPVO setup. Did some shooting as a 1x red dot standing. Not quite as forgiving as an Aimpoint or EoTech, but pretty good.
Didn’t get to test the parallax with the red dot. Also want to do more testing with the FGMM. But I’m happy with what I saw with the Hornady and somewhat with the GDs.
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100 yards
Top left - BH
Top right - Hornady
This upper seems to like this Hornady loading.
nice shooting! :shaka:
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nice shooting! :shaka:
Thanks! I have more ammo testing to do and where the ultimate goal is to settle on one and stick with it. The reticle is quite different from my other scopes that I've shot before and will be a bit of time to both test and get used to. While the scope was damn pricey, no regrets so far. ;D
Maybe we'll have to have a 2a rifle day. 8)
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Thanks! I have more ammo testing to do and where the ultimate goal is to settle on one and stick with it. The reticle is quite different from my other scopes that I've shot before and will be a bit of time to both test and get used to. While the scope was damn pricey, no regrets so far. ;D
Maybe we'll have to have a 2a rifle day. 8)
I might have 1 or 2 of those :thumbsup:
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Ran the LPVO setup through a carbine class yesterday. Very impressed with the quality of the glass and scope itself, but definitely need more time to get the most out of the performance benefits as well as simply getting used to it. I don't think the LPVO setup will replace the EoTech setup as primary long gun, but I do think it's a valuable addition to my "tool box".
I'd like to run the LPVO setup against a 1x red dot setup side by side. Based on yesterday, I would say that I'm slower with the LPVO, but that mostly because of my lack of reps/time with that setup. I believe I will be able to close the gap, but I think the EoTech setup is not in danger of being replaced.
One thing I'll have to watch is the turret caps. I noticed that after a couple of courses of fire that the windage cap had worked loose. It didn't come all the way off, but it was most of the way there. I think I'll add a small tab of plumbing tape to help keep the caps from working loose, or look for other ways.
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NF ATACR? :worship:
Which mount are you using?
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NF ATACR? :worship:
Which mount are you using?
Geissele extended mount. Ended up needing the extended version to get the eye relief I wanted.
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Nice.
Did you go with 1.54 or 1.93 height?
How much did it weigh?
Mahalo!
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Nice.
Did you go with 1.54 or 1.93 height?
How much did it weigh?
Mahalo!
The standard height. The tall height mounts (1.93" and 2.04") are only for the 30 mm tubes. Or at least that I found when I was shopping around. Ended up with the extended length and 0 MOA cant as recommended by Geissele.
Which reminds me, I actually have a standard length one that I ordered when it was on sale and the extended was on backorder. The extended ended up coming in before the optic, so ended up working out. Good thing too because needed the extended length to get the desired eye relief. Now I have an extra mount for a 34 mm optic. Haha
I didn't weigh the optic and/or mount, but the combo is heavy. Or at least heavier (by 1 lb) than my setups with just red dot.
Will be doing more testing with various ammo combinations. I'm pretty hyped based on what I've seen with the ammo that I've tested so far though.
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Thanks for the info, brother.
NF ATACR 1-8 weighs 21oz, and from what I could find, Geissele mount weighs 7.2oz, so overall weight looks like 28.2oz, on paper.
I'm awaiting a Kahles K16i (16.9oz) and Scalarworks 1.93" Leap mount (5.4oz) so that should put overall weight at 22.3oz, but with 2x less magnification.
From what I've read, it sounds like 1.93 will place the center of your optic at the same height as an EOtech EXPS... hope I don't end up regretting the taller mount!
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Thanks for the info, brother.
NF ATACR 1-8 weighs 21oz, and from what I could find, Geissele mount weighs 7.2oz, so overall weight looks like 28.2oz, on paper.
I'm awaiting a Kahles K16i (16.9oz) and Scalarworks 1.93" Leap mount (5.4oz) so that should put overall weight at 22.3oz, but with 2x less magnification.
From what I've read, it sounds like 1.93 will place the center of your optic at the same height as an EOtech EXPS... hope I don't end up regretting the taller mount!
Kahles K16i has some really good reviews. I believe Garand Thumb and Sage Dynamics. The Kahles and Vortex Razor HD were on my shortlist. I also considered the S&B Short Dot and USO 1-8. The last two were pretty hard to find in stock. The Kahles somewhat as well.
There were a number of reasons I went with the NF and performance at 1x red dot was really high up there. The Vortex was similar weight to the NF. I was concerned about weight, but not a big factor when I was deciding which to buy. If I had shot my current setup before buying, I might have factored weight higher. Haha
My red dots are lower 1/3, so I was interested in the 1.93" height for the mount. I decided early on to go with the Geissele mount. After shooting my setup, I think I would be good with the higher mount. While the height is ok, I sometimes found myself sort of having to have a lower cheekweld to get the clear edge-to-edge view when shooting the NF, especially at 8x. 1x was more forgiving.
I'd bet that you'll be happy with the Kahles. Please update here once you complete your LPVO setup. :thumbsup:
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will do.
my search resulted in the same 3 lpvos you mentioned, plus the Steiner P4Xi, Leupold Mk 6, and Minox ZP8.
i wanted good illumination, durability, but glass clarity, weight, eye box, and fov (and cost, of course!) were my biggest concerns, so I ended up ordering the Kahles w/ SM1 reticle.
i like your setup; ATACR was a close second, and the Geissele mounts sound like they are bombproof, and i like their aesthetics.
we should do a side-by-side comparison, just to compare thoughts, after i get squared away. :shaka:
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will do.
my search resulted in the same 3 lpvos you mentioned, plus the Steiner P4Xi, Leupold Mk 6, and Minox ZP8.
i wanted good illumination, durability, but glass clarity, weight, eye box, and fov (and cost, of course!) were my biggest concerns, so I ended up ordering the Kahles w/ SM1 reticle.
i like your setup; ATACR was a close second, and the Geissele mounts sound like they are bombproof, and i like their aesthetics.
we should do a side-by-side comparison, just to compare thoughts, after i get squared away. :shaka:
Ahh. Yeah, the Leupold MK6 was high up there too. I think the reticle mostly ended up turning me away. I was looking for similar, with 1x red dot performance one of the highest.
If I didn’t just spend a bunch on other stuff, I’d be tempted to put together another LPVO upper with a Kahles or Vortex. Haha. I have a lower that is “needing” and upper.
Ya, side-by-side would be awesome.
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Christmas came early for me.
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Christmas came early for me.
Nice! I have that same leveling tool, but the Geissele mount has a tapered section below the scope body that didn't leave enough room. So I ended up using bubble levels.
How do you like it so far? I think I might try more ammo testing on mine this weekend.
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Nice! I have that same leveling tool, but the Geissele mount has a tapered section below the scope body that didn't leave enough room. So I ended up using bubble levels.
How do you like it so far? I think I might try more ammo testing on mine this weekend.
The Arisaka Leveling Wedge was amazing. With the rifle level the Arisaka Wedge got the level bubble dead center. Nightforce did a great job keeping everything on the same plane. I might drop a plumb bob later to double check the reticle, cause I'm OCD lol.
I'm lucky Larue gave me a flat surface under the rings. I've heard not all scope bases can't use the wedge because some having beveled edges or slanted spines. I didn't even take that into account when I bought the mount. I lucked out.
I haven't shot with the optic yet, only the irons on the rifle. I can't wait to zero it. The glass is ridiculously clear. Like ACOG clear. The edges of the picture are crazy crisp. It's like putting on prescription glasses. The clarity carries all the way to max magnification too. Which is something I'm not used to. I've never dropped this much dough on glass before so I'm stoked with the quality.
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The Arisaka Leveling Wedge was amazing. With the rifle level the Arisaka Wedge got the level bubble dead center. Nightforce did a great job keeping everything on the same plane. I might drop a plumb bob later to double check the reticle, cause I'm OCD lol.
I'm lucky Larue gave me a flat surface under the rings. I've heard not all scope bases can't use the wedge because some having beveled edges or slanted spines. I didn't even take that into account when I bought the mount. I lucked out.
I haven't shot with the optic yet, only the irons on the rifle. I can't wait to zero it. The glass is ridiculously clear. Like ACOG clear. The edges of the picture are crazy crisp. It's like putting on prescription glasses. The clarity carries all the way to max magnification too. Which is something I'm not used to. I've never dropped this much dough on glass before so I'm stoked with the quality.
Regarding the wedge, yeah. When I got started with the Geissele mount, I was like "wtf! The wedge isn't gonna fit". >:( :( ;D It did take me quite a while until I got the rifle and optic level to where I was happy. My bubble levels weren't as fine as I would have wanted. I ended up mounting the scope for a class that I had not planned for, so just went with it. I may do more checking later as well. I did some visual verification of the levelness/plumbness and it seems ok.
I hear ya on the price. The optic was one of the most expensive single item that I have. I only have a Vortex Viper PST to compare this against, but very different applications. That said, I probably will end up taking both to the range to compare. They overlap in the 4-8x range.
There were a couple of LPVOs at the rifle class that I went to recently. I believe one was a Vortex Strike Eagle and another might have been Primary Arms (I think in the $200-300 range). I didn't get to try either, but both looked through mine and said that clarity was noticeably better. To the point where the guy with the Vortex said he's gonna upgrade to the NF. I was gonna try a less expensive one to start with, but ended up going for the gusto on this one.
Looking forward to hearing what your thoughts are after you get to shoot it! Have to compare notes with new guy as well with his Kahles.
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Christmas came early for me.
nice
what cal.?
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nice
what cal.?
.308
Make: Patriot Ordnance Factory
Model: Revolution DI
I'm looking to get their 6.5 Creedmoor upper next year also.
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Regarding the wedge, yeah. When I got started with the Geissele mount, I was like "wtf! The wedge isn't gonna fit". >:( :( ;D It did take me quite a while until I got the rifle and optic level to where I was happy. My bubble levels weren't as fine as I would have wanted. I ended up mounting the scope for a class that I had not planned for, so just went with it. I may do more checking later as well. I did some visual verification of the levelness/plumbness and it seems ok.
I hear ya on the price. The optic was one of the most expensive single item that I have. I only have a Vortex Viper PST to compare this against, but very different applications. That said, I probably will end up taking both to the range to compare. They overlap in the 4-8x range.
There were a couple of LPVOs at the rifle class that I went to recently. I believe one was a Vortex Strike Eagle and another might have been Primary Arms (I think in the $200-300 range). I didn't get to try either, but both looked through mine and said that clarity was noticeably better. To the point where the guy with the Vortex said he's gonna upgrade to the NF. I was gonna try a less expensive one to start with, but ended up going for the gusto on this one.
Looking forward to hearing what your thoughts are after you get to shoot it! Have to compare notes with new guy as well with his Kahles.
I have a Vortex Strike Eagle 1-6 on my cheap PSA 556 build and a Trijicon ACOG on another POF but in 556 chambering.
My biggest complaint about the Strike Eagle was the edge distortions as you slowly move up the magnification spectrum. The glass is clear at 1X but as I turn the mag up the edges start to distort eventually creeping it's way almost all the way to the edges of the reticle at 6X. Shootable at 6X but anything on the sides of the reticle is warped and distorted. Apples to oranges though, and not really fair cause I'm comparing a $400 optic to a $2000+ one lol.
The ATACR is like a Trijicon ACOG with variable magnification. It makes life so much brighter than it actually is. The Nightforce is like a vacuum for light, even during dusk it's just soaks up so much ambient light and gives you such a clear picture. It's hard to explain lol.
I never thought I'd buy an optic of this class but figured since this was my only .308 rifle I'd give it something that allowed me to squeeze the most potential out of the round while still having close range utility.
It was between the Nightforce ATACR or the Trijicon VCOG when I was choosing and optic. I liked the rugged housing of the VCOG but the reticle and the ability to zero out the turrets on the Nightforce was what sold me.
I would like to replace the Strike Eagle on my PSA one day with a Trijicon Accupower 1-8 and compare that to the Nightforce. I'm interested to see how much better or if it's even better than the LPVOs in the $1000 - $1500 range.
I'll definitely let you know how great or not great she shoots when I get her to the range.
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What do you guys prefer in your LVPOs? First or second focal plane and why?
I started off using second focal plane LVPOs and found their Aimpoint-like brightness to be a huge plus, I found shooting at a power that the LVPO wasn't zero'd under made things more challenging. It was easy to hold-off to compensate, but I found that I didn't want my POI obscured especially if I'd zero'd the optic at 100 and was shooting at 50 or closer.
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I have a Vortex Strike Eagle 1-6 on my cheap PSA 556 build and a Trijicon ACOG on another POF but in 556 chambering.
My biggest complaint about the Strike Eagle was the edge distortions as you slowly move up the magnification spectrum. The glass is clear at 1X but as I turn the mag up the edges start to distort eventually creeping it's way almost all the way to the edges of the reticle at 6X. Shootable at 6X but anything on the sides of the reticle is warped and distorted. Apples to oranges though, and not really fair cause I'm comparing a $400 optic to a $2000+ one lol.
The ATACR is like a Trijicon ACOG with variable magnification. It makes life so much brighter than it actually is. The Nightforce is like a vacuum for light, even during dusk it's just soaks up so much ambient light and gives you such a clear picture. It's hard to explain lol.
I never thought I'd buy an optic of this class but figured since this was my only .308 rifle I'd give it something that allowed me to squeeze the most potential out of the round while still having close range utility.
It was between the Nightforce ATACR or the Trijicon VCOG when I was choosing and optic. I liked the rugged housing of the VCOG but the reticle and the ability to zero out the turrets on the Nightforce was what sold me.
I would like to replace the Strike Eagle on my PSA one day with a Trijicon Accupower 1-8 and compare that to the Nightforce. I'm interested to see how much better or if it's even better than the LPVOs in the $1000 - $1500 range.
I'll definitely let you know how great or not great she shoots when I get her to the range.
The edge to edge clarity is also what the guy who had one mentioned. I should have tried his optic to see for myself.
I also wasn't considering spending as much as I did when I started looking at LPVOs. I think my initial ceiling was the Vortex Razor HD. That said, I would still like to try a side-by-side with the scopes in that price range. I was actually really close to getting the Vortex Razor HD and then my search when on hold for a bit. I am sure I'd be happy with the Vortex Razor HD. Or even others in that price range or lower. However, now that I went with the NF first, I dunno. ;D
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What do you guys prefer in your LVPOs? First or second focal plane and why?
I started off using second focal plane LVPOs and found their Aimpoint-like brightness to be a huge plus, I found shooting at a power that the LVPO wasn't zero'd under made things more challenging. It was easy to hold-off to compensate, but I found that I didn't want my POI obscured especially if I'd zero'd the optic at 100 and was shooting at 50 or closer.
I have two rifle optics and both are FFP. However, truth be told, most of the capabilities and advantages of FFP reticles are largely lost/wasted on me as I either don't really utilize their features or use them as intended. For the LPVO, I don't use the reticle for ranging, or at least not really yet. I have used the ranging capability with the Vortex Viper on my Rem 700, but I can't say that is a feature that I would say that I need for that gun. For that gun since I'm typically shooting paper at known distances. I have played around with the ranging aspect of the reticle, but that's about it.
I chose the NF for a bunch of other reasons, no really for FFP. I really liked the fact that the red dot was 0.35 MOA at 1x and it's transition to 8x to similar to an EoTech reticle along with the elevation and windage holds was interesting. That said, the eye box forgiveness, red dot-like capability at 1x, proven durability, and optical clarity were the driving features for me.
Regarding optical clarify, I recall reading about differences between FFP and SFP, but I can't recall exactly the takeaways right now. I just recall it was a thread on Sniper's Hide where they were comparing the NF to the "usual suspects" of competitors. A rep from NF ended up chiming in and gave come background on some reasonings behind the whys of the NF, and that included some interesting discussion on FFP reticle of the NF.
Lots of folks also recommend based on intended purpose. Many hunters appear to swear one way (I forget which one, but I assume FFP), and I've seen many 3-gun guys mention preference for SFP. I wasn't interested in either, but I would say 3-gun probably closer to what I "could" envision using my gun with LPVO for.
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Love the reticle (EOtech-ish), brightness, and FOV on the Kahles K16i.
Disappointed that, when I dropped it on the scale, it weighs 17.8 oz instead of the 16.9 oz that it was advertised at.
Scalarworks mount (1.93") is also a bit heavier (5.89 oz) than what I thought the website was advertising, but upon review, I noted that the advertised weight pertains to the low mount.
Mount is awesome because it has a built-in leveling screw to decrease time involved with leveling the optic.
... more to come! :shaka:
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Love the reticle (EOtech-ish), brightness, and FOV on the Kahles K16i.
Disappointed that, when I dropped it on the scale, it weighs 17.8 oz instead of the 16.9 oz that it was advertised at.
Scalarworks mount (1.93") is also a bit heavier (5.89 oz) than what I thought the website was advertising, but upon review, I noted that the advertised weight pertains to the low mount.
Mount is awesome because it has a built-in leveling screw to decrease time involved with leveling the optic.
... more to come! :shaka:
Awesome!
Was just checking out the combos with optics that they are offering in the Scalarworks site (similar to combos by Geissele and LaRue) and the pricing looks really good. If they had them in stock tho...
Sucks that the actual weight came out more than you thought. If I were to try another LPVO setup, I’d look to trim some weight off.
Looking forward to seeing how you like it!
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Rumor and innuendo:
Vortex Razor HD Gen III, 1-10x LPVO; 21.5oz; 10.1" long; 3.6" eye relief; 34mm tube.
Hope someone can validate and report back from SS 2020! :thumbsup:
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Rumor and innuendo:
Vortex Razor HD Gen III, 1-10x LPVO; 21.5oz; 10.1" long; 3.6" eye relief; 34mm tube.
Hope someone can validate and report back from SS 2020! :thumbsup:
$2k 😩
https://www.brownells.com/optics-mounting/scopes/rifle-scopes/razor-gen-iii-1-10x24mm-rifle-scope-prod133925.aspx?trk_msg=QTHH4HIMBF44J88I76OVG7S3M4&trk_contact=J368T26GD5K2GGO48SVVQCV86C&trk_sid=L6B9LAM5GA4MJ0R138FBPNR1OO&utm_source=listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=https%3a%2f%2fwww.brownells.com%2foptics-mounting%2fscopes%2frifle-scopes%2frazor-gen-iii-1-10x24mm-rifle-scope-prod133925.aspx&utm_campaign=2020_01_11_Firearms&utm_content=Firearms
Ahh. I’m down to try. ;D
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$1699, pre-order.
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$1699, pre-order.
Damn you. Stop tempting me. ;D
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https://youtu.be/Ij9OTzYvqzM
Vortex 1-10x24
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Geissele "Super Precision 1-6" to be released (or at least information) at SHOT next week. Looks very close to a Razor HD.
Dammit. . . gonna need to work a bunch more OT.
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A friend of mine checked out the RG3 @ SS 2020 and said it was tight.
I trust his opinion on FOV, red dot illumination, and eye box/eye relief at 1x and at 10x.
... but just to further confuse matters, I hear that Kahles dropped a pretty phenomenal 1-8x LPVO.
:wacko:
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A friend of mine checked out the RG3 @ SS 2020 and said it was tight.
I trust his opinion on FOV, red dot illumination, and eye box/eye relief at 1x and at 10x.
... but just to further confuse matters, I hear that Kahles dropped a pretty phenomenal 1-8x LPVO.
:wacko:
Got some feedback from folks that handled the Razor Gen III at SHOT and seems like it's a winner. Have opportunity to preorder one and I am VERY tempted. Will have to see what the pricing is and weigh some things.
Seems like the LPVO market is really heating up! Hope it doesn't burn my wallet too bad. :(
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Got some feedback from folks that handled the Razor Gen III at SHOT and seems like it's a winner. Have opportunity to preorder one and I am VERY tempted. Will have to see what the pricing is and weigh some things.
Seems like the LPVO market is really heating up! Hope it doesn't burn my wallet too bad. :(
I've been thinking about getting the RT-6 Tactical Kit from Burris if they still offer the NRA instructor discount.... for shits and giggles. Picking up a DD Pro and that barrel is capable of sub-moa so it would be nice to stick something with a little magnification on it to screw around with. HOWEVER! My Eotech EXPS-3 is already on the way lol. But if we still get the discount, it's hard to say no to a 1-6 scope, mount and fastfire 3 for $288....
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I've been thinking about getting the RT-6 Tactical Kit from Burris if they still offer the NRA instructor discount.... for shits and giggles. Picking up a DD Pro and that barrel is capable of sub-moa so it would be nice to stick something with a little magnification on it to screw around with. HOWEVER! My Eotech EXPS-3 is already on the way lol. But if we still get the discount, it's hard to say no to a 1-6 scope, mount and fastfire 3 for $288....
Do it!
There are plenty of options for complete uppers or barrels for accuracy. I've done a lot of research on that in the past 3-4 years.
I read somewhere there are micro magnifiers coming out. Maybe one for the EXPS 3 :hmm:
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(https://i.imgflip.com/3nbfz7.jpg)
Made in the USA! :thumbsup:
(https://i.imgflip.com/3nbgbv.jpg)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jrqrwsva6oU&t=61s
Primary Arms has some new stuff coming out. this one could be on the expensive side, expensive for PA anyways.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jrqrwsva6oU&t=61s
Primary Arms has some new stuff coming out. this one could be on the expensive side, expensive for PA anyways.
Looks like you're gonna have to build another AR. ;D
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Looks like you're gonna have to build another AR. ;D
Yup! Found a lost detent spring while cleaning today. Guess I gotta build another AR. :thumbsup: I'm seriously thinking about picking up that 1-10 from Vortex once all the craziness dies down and companies start to get stock in.
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Looks like you're gonna have to build another AR. ;D
I'm waiting for parts to arrive..... :D
Yup! Found a lost detent spring while cleaning today. Guess I gotta build another AR. :thumbsup: I'm seriously thinking about picking up that 1-10 from Vortex once all the craziness dies down and companies start to get stock in.
My parts are on the way but was getting scarce a little while back, and my optic is on backorder till sometime in may. Now the waiting game
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Excited to see more reviews later this year between the razor and new kahles 18i. 1st vs 2nd focal plane is the biggest caveat, as well as price. But its also japanese vs euro/austrian glass and build, so should make it interesting.
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Yup! Found a lost detent spring while cleaning today. Guess I gotta build another AR. :thumbsup: I'm seriously thinking about picking up that 1-10 from Vortex once all the craziness dies down and companies start to get stock in.
That's a whole new level of degenerate black rifle disease. ;D
I am also looking forward to seeing the Vortex 1-10. There were a couple others as well. Definitely a good time to be in the LPVO market. I mean I am really happy with my NF, but damn there are some very good options out there. Both high end as well as awesome "more budget" options. Really might have to build another AR. . . :geekdanc:
Excited to see more reviews later this year between the razor and new kahles 18i. 1st vs 2nd focal plane is the biggest caveat, as well as price. But its also japanese vs euro/austrian glass and build, so should make it interesting.
As mentioned above, I'm one that likes to try things side-by-side and see for myself. I mean that was manageable for Eotech vs Aimpoint. I would live to do that with these LPVOs, but dayum. From the guys that I've spoken with who have shot with other higher end optics (Leupold, Kahles, S&B, etc), they've generally told me that it usually comes down to the finer details, such as reticle, adjustments, etc. For me, honestly these are all way beyond my capabilities (I'll never out perform them), but still good to see for myself what I think about the different offerings. Still fun to try the different ones though.
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I'm waiting for parts to arrive..... :D
My parts are on the way but was getting scarce a little while back, and my optic is on backorder till sometime in may. Now the waiting game
Keep me, and others on here, posted on what you need. I have lots of stuff in my "box of stuff".
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Keep me, and others on here, posted on what you need. I have lots of stuff in my "box of stuff".
thanks. I think I got all the parts on order, just gotta wait. doing a build for a friend, his first AR.
kind of glad that the upper was still processing, bc I was able to call the shop in AZ and changed my order to a different upper. changed my mind at the last minute. :D
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This might be outside the topic, but what are your guys' thoughts on the new Vortex 1-10?
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This might be outside the topic, but what are your guys' thoughts on the new Vortex 1-10?
The Razor Gen III 1-10? I’m really interested in at least trying it out. Had a couple of reviews on YouTube. Since I recently got a NF, don’t think it would realistically buy one for myself though. :(
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This might be outside the topic, but what are your guys' thoughts on the new Vortex 1-10?
I want one.
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I want one.
I want to try out when you get one. ;D
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Nice but way out of my budget....went with a Swampfox Arrowhead 1-10x instead. SFP but couldn't pass up the huge discount they offer. Already have their 1-6x and like the glass for the price....maybe one day I'll get to own the Vortex
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Nice but way out of my budget....went with a Swampfox Arrowhead 1-10x instead. SFP but couldn't pass up the huge discount they offer. Already have their 1-6x and like the glass for the price....maybe one day I'll get to own the Vortex
Never heard of Swampfox. Browsing their website, looks interesting
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The guy Mike used to be with primary arms and went on his own to start this company. Many good reviews popping up on YT...again, can't compare to the FFP Vortex but for the money...u get good glass....There's a coupon code to use on their site for 25% off or even better if you're LE or veteran
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The Razor Gen III 1-10? I’m really interested in at least trying it out. Had a couple of reviews on YouTube. Since I recently got a NF, don’t think it would realistically buy one for myself though. :(
Yeah the ATACR was on my radar as well, but after the G3 came out I changed my mind. If they had made it a 1-8 I would’ve passed on it and gotten the NF, but they made it a 1-10 and at the same weight to boot. The Gen 2 was solid and hefty to me for a 1-6, just like my Eotech Vudu. Solid, but thicc. I saw the reviews from Sage Dynamics, 9-Hole, and WPS with each covering different aspects.
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Nikon Black 100 1-6? I think Honest outlaw and mrgng gave it good reviews
Not sure how available it is now that Nikon is getting out of scopes
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I think i saw nikon black 1-6 for ~500$ 9or so
Edit : nvm its 600 and 10 bucks shipping. Think they charge tax too
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The guy Mike used to be with primary arms and went on his own to start this company. Many good reviews popping up on YT...again, can't compare to the FFP Vortex but for the money...u get good glass....There's a coupon code to use on their site for 25% off or even better if you're LE or veteran
Seems like a decent price. Personally, I would wait for a company like that to establish a track record. That said, being a P/A spinoff, probably a good sign. Seems like there's information on them from mid 2019. That said, seems comparable to the mid-range P/A offerings and the Vortex PST lines.
I know a shooting instructor who has been using the Strike Eagle 1-8 and he's been happy with it performance wise. Similar use to what I value, which is a defensive carbine, not uber precision or ultra clear glass. I think some reviews and reviewers don't go into context of use, which for me is different for LPVOs than say an optic that would go on a bolt gun.
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Yeah the ATACR was on my radar as well, but after the G3 came out I changed my mind. If they had made it a 1-8 I would’ve passed on it and gotten the NF, but they made it a 1-10 and at the same weight to boot. The Gen 2 was solid and hefty to me for a 1-6, just like my Eotech Vudu. Solid, but thicc. I saw the reviews from Sage Dynamics, 9-Hole, and WPS with each covering different aspects.
I had been set on the ATACR for a while, but took me a while to finally swallowing the price pill and also took me a while to get the mount and actually mount the optic. Interesting that a 1-10 package is similar size and weight to 1-8 offerings. If I were to do it all over today, now that the 1-10 is out, while I do think I would have a tougher decision than with the Razor Gen 2 version, I think I would have still gone with the ATACR. The reticle and other aspects were key for me. However, I'm pretty sure that I would be happy with a Razor Gen 2 1-6 (and $1k+ more in my pocket), but likely always have "the wants" for the 1-8 and now 1-10 models. . .
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Seems like a decent price. Personally, I would wait for a company like that to establish a track record. That said, being a P/A spinoff, probably a good sign. Seems like there's information on them from mid 2019. That said, seems comparable to the mid-range P/A offerings and the Vortex PST lines.
I know a shooting instructor who has been using the Strike Eagle 1-8 and he's been happy with it performance wise. Similar use to what I value, which is a defensive carbine, not uber precision or ultra clear glass. I think some reviews and reviewers don't go into context of use, which for me is different for LPVOs than say an optic that would go on a bolt gun.
the Strike Eagle line was updated recently with new reticle and includes a throw lever with the LPVO. lately I've been doing some research, helping with a build for a friend and doing some video watching on different optics, thinking I might have to update the optics on at least one of my AR's. I'm going to put a reflex sight on my HD AR, and thinking maybe LPVO for another AR. I'm not going to build another AR but just swap out optics.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frLuTB3VsjM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6fBulPcsGA