2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: jerry_03 on May 30, 2018, 03:13:02 PM
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http://www.staradvertiser.com/2018/05/30/breaking-news/leilani-estates-man-arrested-for-allegedly-firing-handgun-at-resident/
link to video on FB
https://www.facebook.com/100011305921547/videos/574791919574334/
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If you’re on FB, look up “Ethan O Edwards”. There’s a video of at least some of the shots fired.
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I find it interesting that he was only charged with reckless endangerment, not assault, terroristic threatening, place to keep firearms, etc. I wonder if this was on a private road or his driveway. I'm surprised the other guy didn't run off, most guys would when faced with a gun and warning shots.
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I find it interesting that he was only charged with reckless endangerment, not assault, terroristic threatening, place to keep firearms, etc. I wonder if this was on a private road or his driveway. I'm surprised the other guy didn't run off, most guys would when faced with a gun and warning shots.
The arrest only requires a single charge. After the DA investigates, they can decide to add as many charges as they feel are warranted.
So, don't count your chickens right yet.
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I'm no attorney but that sure looks like far more than reckless endangering
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I'm no attorney but that sure looks like far more than reckless endangering
I’d like to see what happened leading up to the video that I saw. However, regardless of what precipitated that, I would still expect charges for the older guy. Just think the current charge is the no-brainer.
Read through some of the comments. Some said the older guy was fending off looters. Others said the older guy had an earlier run in with police. All specialtion, but many times reporting from HNN is quite lacking.
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link to video on FB
https://www.facebook.com/100011305921547/videos/574791919574334/
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Arguing with a guy who has a gun *facepalm
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If this was a "You loot, we shoot" thing, no way will the DA side with the guy protecting his property.
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Don't know the circumstances, but the optics are not good.
Doesn't help the cause.
As said... Tensions are high
Aloha
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Arguing with a guy who has a gun *facepalm
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Only in Hawaii where all people with guns are bad and people with mal intent have more rights and protection
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From puting together Facebook posts this is what is the story looks like (could be wrong)
Old guy lives in the evacuation area and people have been looting.
Your guy comes with some friends and are driving around the area stopping outside various property’s ( they do live in the area but where not at that property when confronted)
Old guy confronts them asking them what their doing and why - he dosnt recognize them because they don’t avtually live where they are located.
They get into a verbal spa back and forth, some pushing and shoving happens,
Old guy is backing away young guy follows, this is where the video starts.
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The recklessness charges stem from firing a gun on a roadway.
A lot of that area is private roads so he could well be on private property and hence no conclead/firearms charges.
This could well be self defense and all charges may be dropped or it could go the other way and they try and charge him with as many crimes as they can.
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The recklessness charges stem from firing a gun on a roadway.
A lot of that area is private roads so he could well be on private property and hence no conclead/firearms charges.
This could well be self defense and all charges may be dropped or it could go the other way and they try and charge him with as many crimes as they can.
Would this challenge the "residence" definition? Because if it does, then that would mean that it's not your 4 walls and roof.
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Old guy is backing away young guy follows, this is where the video starts.
Not defending or justifying actions of the older guy. But of course the younger guy rushes to post his side of the story on social media. And he happens to have friends who video the encounter. Gets one side of the story out there and that leads to initial judgement before or without all the facts.
One of my first impressions of the video posted was a guy who always has to have the last word, no matter what.
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One of my first impressions of the video posted was a guy who always has to have the last word, no matter what.
I thought the same. Especially when a gun is pointed at him, he's still arguing.
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I thought the same. Especially when a gun is pointed at him, he's still arguing.
Eh. It was just a 22. :P (/kidding)
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I noticed whenever the guy with the gun backed up or lowered the gun, the other guy would advance forward and escalate the confrontation even with the warning shots. When the guy with the gun stood firm with the gun aimed, the other guy backed off.
I'm not saying the encounter was justified or not, but its a strategy to keep in mind in a self defense scenario.
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The older guy did some good things. Create space, use of left arm to fend off the other guy and also protecting/shielding the gun arm. But then eventually putting the gun out here with arm extended with the other guy within arms reach of the gun put it at risk for a take away.
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I hope Active Self Protection does a review of this. I went to his website and can't find a "contact" section.
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I hope Active Self Protection does a review of this. I went to his website and can't find a "contact" section.
Good idea. Ill contact him
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I can only load the first bit of the video before it freezes, but if I were on the jury I would say the young guy advancing forward like that counts as threatening deadly or bodily injury, so even a shooting (which didn't actually occur) would be justifiable self-defense. Assuming that area is his private property.
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I can only load the first bit of the video before it freezes, but if I were on the jury I would say the young guy advancing forward like that counts as threatening deadly or bodily injury, so even a shooting (which didn't actually occur) would be justifiable self-defense. Assuming that area is his private property.
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Death or serious bodily injury would be hard to prove because the aggressor had no weapon. 1 could argue, "well he's younger and stronger than I am (senior citizen)".
But serious bodily injury is defined as a puncture of an organ or loss of motor function. So again, no weapon makes it very hard to prove.
At least he tried retreating first and that's on video.
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But serious bodily injury is defined as a puncture of an organ or loss of motor function. So again, no weapon makes it very hard to prove.
The law implies a younger guy can pound on an older one, but it is all cool as long as he is careful not to stab the guy or knock him out?
That does not sound right, that the older guy should have to wait and see how badly he will be beaten.
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§703-304 Use of force in self-protection.
The use of deadly force is justifiable under this section if the actor believes that deadly force is necessary to protect himself against death, serious bodily injury, kidnapping, rape, or forcible sodomy.
That does NOT mention anything about a weapon or anything else needed for the actor to believe deadly force is necessary. Really need to get away from the mentality that a weapon is need to justify how one defends themselves.
That said, while I personally don't feel that anything that I saw in the video would have made me feel that use of deadly force was justified, I wasn't there and I wasn't the one being or feeling threatened. Did the old guy go to far? From what I saw in the video, probably. But again, I wasn't there nor was I the one potentially at risk.
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They may live in Lelani, but not where they were.
In the very beginning of the video there are two others (male ?) in the background running towards them AS the youngster advances towards old man
SEE DISPARITY OF FORCE
HE THEN DRAWS.
Either way, dispensing a round NOT on target is wrong. :grrr:
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The key word is "believes". I'm just saying it's more work for his attorney compared to if the other guy had any type of weapon/object. Could someone get punched once and fall down and hit their head and get killed? Yes it happens. Could he get punched and have a laceration on his face/head? Yes and the skin is an organ so the serious injury definition could be met also.
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For self defense it all comes down to what the jury determines to be reasonable.
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Eh. It was just a 22. :P (/kidding)
Yeah, but it was a revolver! He can't be all that bad, right? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Yeah, but it was a revolver! He can't be all that bad, right? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Could a modern 22 revolver hold more than 10rds? I've seen a pic of a really old one that had like 15rds in the cylinder.
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I concealed carried in WA state for many years.
Number one rule is if you feel that much of a threat
to pull out and aim your weapon, you MUST use it to stop
the threat. I'm going to shoot you, not try to scare you.
Trying to scare someone with a gun is brandishment.
That is usually illegal and stupid.
I'm not a trained cop, I'm trained military,
and I've been shooting since I was 8 years old.
I don't generally miss my target.
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Could a modern 22 revolver hold more than 10rds? I've seen a pic of a really old one that had like 15rds in the cylinder.
I have an older one that holds 9 but the more moderns ones I have seen hold 10. If you have seen a really old one that holds somewhere around 15 I have never seen one. If you could find out what it is I would be really interested in researching it. Not that I'm a revolver and .22 fanatic or anything... :oops: :oops: :oops:
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I have an older one that holds 9 but the more moderns ones I have seen hold 10. If you have seen a really old one that holds somewhere around 15 I have never seen one. If you could find out what it is I would be really interested in researching it. Not that I'm a revolver and .22 fanatic or anything... :oops: :oops: :oops:
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The most I’ve seen is 10 rounds. Not sure what vintage though.
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They may live in Lelani, but not where they were.
In the very beginning of the video there are two others (male ?) in the background running towards them AS the youngster advances towards old man
SEE DISPARITY OF FORCE
HE THEN DRAWS.
Either way, dispensing a round NOT on target is wrong. :grrr:
Disparity of force was one thing I was thinking. Can only see so much from the camera angle and it seemed to me that the younger guy was part of a group.
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I concealed carried in WA state for many years.
Number one rule is if you feel that much of a threat
to pull out and aim your weapon, you MUST use it to stop
the threat. I'm going to shoot you, not try to scare you.
Trying to scare someone with a gun is brandishment.
That is usually illegal and stupid.
I'm not a trained cop, I'm trained military,
and I've been shooting since I was 8 years old.
I don't generally miss my target.
There was a reporter in Oregon who was arrested for that. He had a hostile crowd approaching him and he brandished his handgun that he had concealed.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2016/07/man_accused_of_pulling_gun_on.html
Watching the video, he seemed to have lots of space. IDK what the OR deadly force laws are. But vid did show how stupid people are. Guy pulls gun and they still choose to confront and walk toward him.
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There was a reporter in Oregon who was arrested for that. He had a hostile crowd approaching him and he brandished his handgun that he had concealed.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2016/07/man_accused_of_pulling_gun_on.html
Watching the video, he seemed to have lots of space. IDK what the OR deadly force laws are. But vid did show how stupid people are. Guy pulls gun and they still choose to confront and walk toward him.
That was because he did not use it.
"One man with a rifle can control a hundred".
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The guy updated his post
Also has a go fund me set up
https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100011305921547&fref=nf&ref=m_notif¬if_t=feedback_reaction_generic
That last comment though. ???
Sorry I forgot some of you don't fall into the "scroll hole"/ social media
Always stand up to bullies to prevent another person from being their next victim.
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http://www.staradvertiser.com/2018/05/31/breaking-news/pahoa-man-61-charged-in-leilani-estates-armed-robbery-caught-on-video/
More info on shooter.
John Hubbard was charged Wednesday with two counts of first-degree reckless endangering, five counts of terroristic threatening, one count of first-degree robbery, ownership of a firearm prohibited, place to keep a pistol, failure to register a firearm, failure to obtain a gun permit and use of a firearm in the commission of a separate felony.
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Sounds like he's screwed and has a past record too.
I wonder what the robbery charge was for and why 5 counts of threatening.
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He took one of their phones.
Idiot "stand up to bullying".
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Wow 😮
What is that?
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And the hawaii hearald reports he is already a convicted felon.
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News story said the gun guy was chasing the young guy off his own property.
It also said the gun guy had firearms violations on the mainland.
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Would this challenge the "residence" definition? Because if it does, then that would mean that it's not your 4 walls and roof.
§134-25 Place to keep pistol or revolver; penalty. (a) Except as provided in sections 134-5 and 134-9, all firearms shall be confined to the possessor's place of business, residence, or sojourn;
I register to do business in the state of Hawaii therefore Hawaii is my place of business.
I reside in the state of Hawaii therefore Hawaii is my residence.
I lay my head in Hawaii therefore Hawaii is my place of Sojourn.
All of this must be true or it would be illegal for a homeless person to own a firearm and that would violate their constitutional rights.
If the land is under a HOA or is a private street the state/city has no ownership and as such no control over it. The home owners own it and as such it is their property tied to their place of residence.
Not to mention Hawaii Place to keep/carry laws are unconstitutional. It should be a list of exclusionary areas not a list of places you can carry.
It shall be lawful for people to keep a firearm in all places they have the legal right to be : EXCEPT for Schools, court buildings, churches ect....
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He took one of their phones.
Idiot "stand up to bullying".
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the victim posted a youtube video of the shooter's house being consumed by lava on his FB page
saying "Karma. Pele moves fast."
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Supposedly the old guy is a douch to his neighbors, doing things to aggravate and irritate them
And supposedly the young guy has a history of sex abuse and rape, more then once
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Wow 😮
What is that?
For sale... interested? :D
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For sale... interested? :D
Yes!!!! 😁😁😁
But I have a feeling the price is going to let me down. 😮😮😮
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Check out this channel, it’s full of videos and police phone calls of a nasty history of Hubbard and his neighbor named “Andy” down in Leilani
https://www.youtube.com/user/mainshaft808
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Yes!!!! 😁😁😁
But I have a feeling the price is going to let me down. 😮😮😮
Sorry. Was just something I got on the InterWebz.
But, I’m sure it can be had for $$$$$$$
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Supposedly the old guy is a douch to his neighbors, doing things to aggravate and irritate them
And supposedly the young guy has a history of sex abuse and rape, more then once
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It's like a story out of the bible.
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Maybe he's just protecting his pakalolo patch.
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The list of charges were given, but only 11 are felonies. I believe the 2 I listed last are misdemeanors, but I only read through the Penalties of HRS 134 once to check.
11 Felony Counts filed against him:
1) first-degree robbery,
2) carrying a firearm in the commission of a separate felony,
3) being a felon in possession of a firearm,
4) illegally carrying a handgun,
5-6) two counts of reckless endangering, and
7-11) five counts of first-degree terroristic threatening.
2 Misdemeanors:
1) having no permit to acquire a firearm and
2) no firearm registration.
Because these felonies occurred under a state of emergency, enhanced sentencing rules could lock him up for life. :wacko:
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Supposedly the old guy is a douch to his neighbors, doing things to aggravate and irritate them
And supposedly the young guy has a history of sex abuse and rape, more then once
Play stupid games......
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https://eaglesongbook.wordpress.com/2015/02/04/community-response-to-sexual-abuse/
People are still speculating if it’s the same Ethan Edwards, but here’s that evidence of the sexual abuse
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Hubbard’s felony record includes a 1976 drug trafficking conviction in Kentucky and
a 1986 Oregon conviction for being an ex-convict in possession of a concealable weapon.
http://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/2018/05/31/hawaii-news/leilani-shooting-suspect-makes-court-appearance/
They showed video on the news of lava getting ready to take Hubbard's home.
In the end, it was all for nothing.
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He don't gotta worry about room and board for a long, long time.
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He don't gotta worry about room and board for a long, long time.
One home burns down, another one is waiting.
How lucky can one guy be? :thumbsup:
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We will see this material again... At the next session of the Legislature.
Mark my words.
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No we wont. Felon carrying gun, revolver not "assault rifle with high cap full auto clip".
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The list of charges were given, but only 11 are felonies. I believe the 2 I listed last are misdemeanors, but I only read through the Penalties of HRS 134 once to check.
11 Felony Counts filed against him:
1) first-degree robbery,
2) carrying a firearm in the commission of a separate felony,
3) being a felon in possession of a firearm,
4) illegally carrying a handgun,
5-6) two counts of reckless endangering, and
7-11) five counts of first-degree terroristic threatening.
2 Misdemeanors:
1) having no permit to acquire a firearm and
2) no firearm registration.
Because these felonies occurred under a state of emergency, enhanced sentencing rules could lock him up for life. :wacko:
The illegal firearm, the permit and the registration will get thrown out.
You don’t need a permit for a firearm in your possession.
A felon can’t get a permit, register a firearm or get a CCW license. H attempting any of the above would be violating his 5th amendment rights
Haynes vs US (scotus)
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That's true. It's a permit to acquire. Says so right at the top of the carbon paper you fill out.
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That's true. It's a permit to acquire. Says so right at the top of the carbon paper you fill out.
Not applying for a Permit to Acquire is a problem if he was in Hawaii when he acquired it.
That assumes he wasn't a felon prohibited from owning/possessing a firearm.
§134-2 Permits to acquire.
(a) No person shall acquire the ownership of a firearm, whether usable or unusable, serviceable or unserviceable, modern or antique, registered under prior law or by a prior owner or unregistered, either by purchase, gift, inheritance, bequest, or in any other manner, whether procured in the State or imported by mail, express, freight, or otherwise, until the person has first procured from the chief of police of the county of the person's place of business or, if there is no place of business, the person's residence or, if there is neither place of business nor residence, the person's place of sojourn, a permit to acquire the ownership of a firearm as prescribed in this section. When title to any firearm is acquired by inheritance or bequest, the foregoing permit shall be obtained before taking possession of a firearm; provided that upon presentation of a copy of the death certificate of the owner making the bequest, any heir or legatee may transfer the inherited or bequested firearm directly to a dealer licensed under section 134-31 or licensed by the United States Department of Justice without complying with the requirements of this section.
§134-17 Penalties.
(a) If any person gives false information or offers false evidence of the person's identity in complying with any of the requirements of this part, that person shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, provided, however that if any person intentionally gives false information or offers false evidence concerning their psychiatric or criminal history in complying with any of the requirements of this part, that person shall be guilty of a class C felony.
(b) Any person who violates section 134-3(a) shall be guilty of a petty misdemeanor.
(c) Any person who violates section 134-2, 134-4, 134-10, 134-15, or 134-16(a) shall be guilty of a misdemeanor. Any person who violates section 134-3(b) shall be guilty of a petty misdemeanor and the firearm shall be confiscated as contraband and disposed of, if the firearm is not registered within five days of the person receiving notice of the violation. [L 1988, c 275, pt of §2; am L 1994, c 204, §9]
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Not applying for a Permit to Acquire is a problem if he was in Hawaii when he acquired it.
As i stated its irrelevant the supreme court has already ruled that felons dont have to go thru the legal process to get a firearm
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As i stated its irrelevant the supreme court has already ruled that felons dont have to go thru the legal process to get a firearm
Stop trolling me!