2aHawaii
General Topics => Off Topic => Topic started by: drck1000 on July 24, 2018, 07:43:35 AM
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Any of you watched the series "World War II - In Color"?
I was flipping through channels last night and came across it on AHC. If I recall correctly, this one was about things that led up to WWII. Rise of the Nazis and how they were initially viewed as "ok guys" ahead and during the Berlin Olympics in 1936. Then rise of the Japanese empire, etc. What caught my attention was the segment on Benito Mussolini and his rise, Stalin's views/opposition, and General Franco in Spain. I admit that I've heard of Mussolini and Stalin, but nothing in depth and the discussion on those two I thought was quite interesting. And to be honest, I never really knew about General Franco and Spain's support of the Axis. Maybe because their part wasn't "official", at least according to Wikipedia and some other sources.
Anyways, all interesting parts that I don't recall being taught in history, nor portrayed in movies. Wondering now if that was sort of the MSM effect of the day. Learning more and more about the other stories in WW II has always been interesting to me. I had another thread on histories of major wars, but this one is more focuses.
Much if my interest is rooted in the firearms of the times. But also very interesting to me are the other "implents of war", like the German Panzer tanks and the Luftwaffe.
Seems like this series is available on Amazon and Netflix. I'll check Amazon tonight, but I might just wait until episode air on AHC.
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I watched it on Netflix. Good shit.
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I watched it on Netflix. Good shit.
“WW II in Color, whiskey, and chill” :thumbsup:
Gotta find me a girl who’s down with that. :D
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I watch it from time to time.
Spain, Italy and others all joined the Axis once they were conquered (join us or die). I think the movie Big Red One had an opening scene where they invaded the Italian coast. They shouted their Americans and the Italians surrendered and welcomed the USA on shore. They didn't want to fight for the Germans, but didn't want to get wiped out either. That's also why our landing soldiers had American flag arm bands.
Mousollini was rescued by the German Airborne (Fallschimjager) (IIRC) from his prison.
When I was in school, seems like they taught mainly about Pearl Harbor and the end of the war. But the middle and about the rise of Hitler was often left out. I would remember also because it is a topic I have always been interested in. Like other subjects, I don't remember what they taught about in detail.
I did take a US military history class at UH. That's the only class that taught me that the Korean war never ended. It's a 70 year cease fire. No mention at all about it for all of high/middle school. This class went more into detail about WWII. Rise of Hitler, what started WWII, Battle of the Bulge, etc...The class was era 1900-1970's.
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I’m a bit of a WWII and WWI history fan. I have watched this series a couple of times. I think most of it is factually correct. They do reuse the same footage over and over again. And sometimes between episodes. Overall I enjoyed watching them.
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I watch it from time to time.
Spain, Italy and others all joined the Axis once they were conquered (join us or die). I think the movie Big Red One had an opening scene where they invaded the Italian coast. They shouted their Americans and the Italians surrendered and welcomed the USA on shore. They didn't want to fight for the Germans, but didn't want to get wiped out either. That's also why our landing soldiers had American flag arm bands.
Mousollini was rescued by the German Airborne (Fallschimjager) (IIRC) from his prison.
When I was in school, seems like they taught mainly about Pearl Harbor and the end of the war. But the middle and about the rise of Hitler was often left out. I would remember also because it is a topic I have always been interested in. Like other subjects, I don't remember what they taught about in detail.
I did take a US military history class at UH. That's the only class that taught me that the Korean war never ended. It's a 70 year cease fire. No mention at all about it for all of high/middle school. This class went more into detail about WWII. Rise of Hitler, what started WWII, Battle of the Bulge, etc...The class was era 1900-1970's.
Was watching another series on AHC last night on Hitler. I think this one is 3-4 episodes, so might try to watch them all. Anyways, the series is right up to when Hindenberg dies and Hitler takes control of Germany. I too didn't learn all that much about Hitler, but I have to admit this story is pretty interesting. I had known about some of his history in WW I and other stuff, but this series goes into quite a bit of detail. Analyzing his historic speeches, the propo films, etc. I wouldn't say that I admire the guy, but there is some mad genius behind all of that. At least in his rise to power. Mostly interested in that I see a lot of parallels to things going on in politics today. Like the Nazi party thriving on internal strife within the country. Like manipulation of media for propaganda. Like expansion of this wealth when in power. . .
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I’m a bit of a WWII and WWI history fan. I have watched this series a couple of times. I think most of it is factually correct. They do reuse the same footage over and over again. And sometimes between episodes. Overall I enjoyed watching them.
Should set up a WWI and WWII firearms day. I can see if I can bring a couple of my dad's rifles.
I have always been interested in WW II history, especially stuff beyond what is popularly covered in the US. Like what happened in Africa and elsewhere beyond Europe. I mean I'm still interested in stuff about D-Day, battles in the Pacific and other, but those seem to be covered in many TV documentaries and movies.
For being factually correct, never really thought about that. I would hope the events themselves are pretty easy to document. It's the analysis of the folks commenting that I find interesting and I found that the WW II In Color has a pretty good balance of that. I mean I get history is written by the victor, so I'm sure a former Nazi might portray things differently.
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"Hitler's circle of evil" is a really in depth look at Hitler's rise and his closest advisers. Available on Netflix ;-)
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"Hitler's circle of evil" is a really in depth look at Hitler's rise and his closest advisers. Available on Netflix ;-)
If I watch more, I'm afraid I'll turn into a fanboy. . . ;D [kidding]
I'll add that to my watch list. The things he and the Nazis did are atrocious, but damn, I have to admit he's pretty interesting.
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If I watch more, I'm afraid I'll turn into a fanboy. . . ;D [kidding]
I'll add that to my watch list. The things he and the Nazis did are atrocious, but damn, I have to admit he's pretty interesting.
History is fascinating and I've always been extremely interested in the revolutionary war, the civil war and WW2. I can thank my great uncle who worked on plane engines during WW2 and was always watching or reading something to do with war for that. Being a Jew I was always amazed at how Hitler could have so much hate towards one ethnicity and more importantly, how he and his compatriots convinced an entire country to hate and to act on it. I read Mein Kampf when I was in the 7th or 8th grade and continued reading works by madmen in an attempt to understand why they think what they think..... I've concluded that they hate us cuz they ain't us ;-)
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History is fascinating and I've always been extremely interested in the revolutionary war, the civil war and WW2. I can thank my great uncle who worked on plane engines during WW2 and was always watching or reading something to do with war for that. Being a Jew I was always amazed at how Hitler could have so much hate towards one ethnicity and more importantly, how he and his compatriots convinced an entire country to hate and to act on it. I read Mein Kampf when I was in the 7th or 8th grade and continued reading works by madmen in an attempt to understand why they think what they think..... I've concluded that they hate us cuz they ain't us ;-)
I've always been interested in history as well, just different parts at different times. But always have been interested in WW II for some reason. Love movies like Memphis Belle and Saving Private Ryan. I saw Saving Private Ryan on the opening weekend in Seattle. When I was walking out, I saw a WW II vet (at least by his cap) standing at the top railing and sort of staring at the credits in a mix look of shock and pride. I will always remember that.
The Jew part is something I had wondered about for a long time. Even stuff like in the middle east. How can masses get behind such pure hate. It's somewhat easier to me to understand now how Hilter went about it as well as the context of the time of things not going well in Germany.
They hate youse because that aint youse? :rofl:
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I've always wondered why the jews never fought back. If 1 million unarmed people fought back, there would have been high casulties on the Nazi side also.
I mean you're in a death camp, even if 3,000 decided at once to attack (weak and unarmed), they could have taken over the camp.
Or was it because the "trouble makers" were executed only to leave the sheep?
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I've always wondered why the jews never fought back. If 1 million unarmed people fought back, there would have been high casulties on the Nazi side also.
I mean you're in a death camp, even if 3,000 decided at once to attack (weak and unarmed), they could have taken over the camp.
Or was it because the "trouble makers" were executed only to leave the sheep?
They did fight back. But not until after most of the guns were confiscated. Here is a good link:
https://www.ushmm.org/educators/teaching-about-the-holocaust/common-questions
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They did fight back. But not until after most of the guns were confiscated. Here is a good link:
https://www.ushmm.org/educators/teaching-about-the-holocaust/common-questions
One reason that comes up often is the belief that Jewish labor was critical to Germany's war effort. Why would Hitler have his work force killed? It wasn't logical.
That reasoning was shared by both Jews and Germans to support their belief that rumors of mass killing of Jews were false.
More Jews would have been motivated to resist their captors if they knew what was planned for them.
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Hitler was rutheless. The Night of the Long Knives!
Couldn’t kill Rohm though. The speculation on that was :o
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One reason that comes up often is the belief that Jewish labor was critical to Germany's war effort. Why would Hitler have his work force killed? It wasn't logical.
That reasoning was shared by both Jews and Germans to support their belief that rumors of mass killing of Jews were false.
More Jews would have been motivated to resist their captors if they knew what was planned for them.
Exactly. Today, many assume that the atrocities of the Nazi's were well known. This was not the case. The death camps were kept a secret until allies discovered them at the end of the war. When the concentration camps were discovered they quickly overshadowed the atrocities committed by the Japanese Imperial Army and more specifically Unit 731.
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One reason that comes up often is the belief that Jewish labor was critical to Germany's war effort. Why would Hitler have his work force killed? It wasn't logical.
That reasoning was shared by both Jews and Germans to support their belief that rumors of mass killing of Jews were false.
More Jews would have been motivated to resist their captors if they knew what was planned for them.
Exactly. Today, many assume that the atrocities of the Nazi's were well known. This was not the case. The death camps were kept a secret until allies discovered them at the end of the war. When the concentration camps were discovered they quickly overshadowed the atrocities committed by the Japanese Imperial Army and more specifically Unit 731.
Watched 3rd part of the 4 part series on Hitler last night. This one was "Hitler: Fuhrer" and the previous night was "Hitler: Actor".
The part about killing Jews wasn't logical. It was blind hate and he viewed them as cancerous occupiers. I always knew Hilter and his Nazi party hated Jews and kind of had an idea about it, but not as in detail as being explained in the shows I watched recently. He effectively rallied a nation against Jews based on an attack by a Polish Jew on a German diplomat (and others of course) as well as a super effective propaganda machine.
I also believe the Jews would have risen up if they knew what their fate was. Just that spread of knowledge back then wasn't what it is today.
And the more I watch stuff about WW II and Hitler, damn the British and French.
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Exactly. Today, many assume that the atrocities of the Nazi's were well known. This was not the case. The death camps were kept a secret until allies discovered them at the end of the war. When the concentration camps were discovered they quickly overshadowed the atrocities committed by the Japanese Imperial Army and more specifically Unit 731.
I didn't know that we/everyone else didn't know about the camps until watching Band of Brothers. Then I looked into it more.
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There is a lot more to the history of the Nazis and the hatred of the Jews. The Nazis also went to the Middle East and influenced many of the indigenous people and the religious people (Muftis) hence the hatred of the Jews still exists in the Middle East amongst the Islamist Extremists.
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There is a lot more to the history of the Nazis and the hatred of the Jews. The Nazis also went to the Middle East and influenced many of the indigenous people and the religious people (Muftis) hence the hatred of the Jews still exists in the Middle East amongst the Islamist Extremists.
Damn Nazis responsible for all this turmoil in the world today. . . Probably Trump's fault too!
Just finished episodes 2 - 7 of Season 1. I had heard about France's historical weakness, but this series really craps on them. Then there's Italy and Mussolini and how they could have really changed things. Many key mistakes by Hitler that could really have gone the other way had he not been so full of himself and a drug addict.
One part of history of WW II that I've always been interested in was the North African campaign. The series covered that in episodes 6 and 7. Was pretty interesting. I have always been interested in Rommel and his tactics and they touched on that some. Seemed like the battles where were the Axis and Allies chasing each other back and forth across the coastline of North Africa.
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I guess in a positive outlook, it's good that Hitler used so much propaganda. Because now we can watch history vs. reading articles and stories. We were watching COW and Mrs. Change asked how come there's so much film from the nazi's. And how scenes in Man in the High Castle were based on real life stuff (the thousands of soldiers in formation during Hitlers speech, the huge nazi flags draped over buildings, etc...). She thought that was all make believe.
What always fascinated me was for all the guys in the film, did they make it to the end of the war? Or some 90 year old guy is watching it and sees his younger self on TV.
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Just finished the series on Hitler. That was actually pretty interesting and a LOT that I didn't know about him. He really was his own worst enemy and his ego cost him. Something that one would hope leaders of today would learn from, but seems like history is repeating itself in many ways, even in the US military. While not to the scale of Hitler, I still do see it in many ways.
I'm a couple of episodes away from finishing the WW II In Color series. Hindsight is 20/20, but I often wonder what the world would look like today has Germany focused on Poland and east. Or what if Japan had not gotten the US involved. Like in any war, there are pivotal decisions that turn tides and seemed like Germany's rise was quick and ruthless and their fall was almost as fast.
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Or what if Japan had not gotten the US involved.
the US would have gotten involved when the Japanese invaded the Philippines and SE Asia
treaties after WWI restricted Japanese access to oil, steel, and rubber
there is a museum in Tokyo that has an exhibit that talks about WWII as if it was not the Japanese's fault
they even refer to it as the "Greater East Asian Conflict"
there is a panel that explicitly says Japan was forced to start the war so that they could get raw materials
i'll write more later about this shrine/museum when I have more time
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the US would have gotten involved when the Japanese invaded the Philippines and SE Asia
treaties after WWI restricted Japanese access to oil, steel, and rubber
there is a museum in Tokyo that has an exhibit that talks about WWII as if it was not the Japanese's fault
they even refer to it as the "Greater East Asian Conflict"
there is a panel that explicitly says Japan was forced to start the war so that they could get raw materials
i'll write more later about this shrine/museum when I have more time
I haven't visited any of those museums in Japan. I've always wanted to visit one of the peace parks in Hiroshima or Nagasaki.
I guess I meant the timing of when the US got involved. I'd have to look back at the timing, but the Japanese was in the PI and other SE Asia areas well before 1941. Japan even attacked a US gunboat and I think something like 50 were killed, but no action was taken. I think that was late 1930s. Seems like if Japan had not bombed Pearl Harbor, the US would have still gotten involved, but maybe with a different focus. At least that's what I wondered about when I was watching the series. Just seems like the US got involved when Germany was stretching itself thin, but maybe they could have held off the British and gotten a better foot hold. But then they eventually were getting whipped by the Red Army in the east.
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I'd have to look back at the timing, but the Japanese was in the PI and other SE Asia areas well before 1941.
http://www.philippine-history.org/japanese-occupation.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_invasion_of_Malaya
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http://www.philippine-history.org/japanese-occupation.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_invasion_of_Malaya
I think this was the attack mentioned. It was in 1937 and the US didn't jump in. I thought the report said 50 died on the attack on a US gun boat, but these articles say 50-something on board and a few casualties (depends which account). I'll have to go back to the episode I watched, but I thought the name of the gun boat was different.
https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=17110447 (https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=17110447)
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/uss-panay-sunk-by-japanese (https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/uss-panay-sunk-by-japanese)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Panay_incident (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Panay_incident)
Trying to focus. . .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_occupation_of_the_Philippines (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_occupation_of_the_Philippines)
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I think this was the attack mentioned. It was in 1937 and the US didn't jump in. I thought the report said 50 died on the attack on a US gun boat, but these articles say 50-something on board and a few casualties (depends which account). I'll have to go back to the episode I watched, but I thought the name of the gun boat was different.
https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=17110447 (https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=17110447)
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/uss-panay-sunk-by-japanese (https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/uss-panay-sunk-by-japanese)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Panay_incident (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Panay_incident)
Trying to focus. . .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_occupation_of_the_Philippines (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_occupation_of_the_Philippines)
this will help with focusing
http://www.slate.com/blogs/quora/2014/07/07/what_prompted_japan_s_aggression_before_and_during_world_war_ii.html
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this will help with focusing
http://www.slate.com/blogs/quora/2014/07/07/what_prompted_japan_s_aggression_before_and_during_world_war_ii.html
TLDR
Nah, I read it later. :thumbsup:
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On a side note, my friends dad worked as a civilian at PH in 1941. He said everyday and every hour (24/7), there is a crew working on the ships. Holidays and all. But on Saturday 12/6, the boss told his crew to take the day off tomorrow (12/7/1941). They were overjoyed because no crew gets the entire day off.
Hard to wage a war if the guys who fix the ships are dead. So this, in combo with the carriers all of a sudden being out of port, the lack of believing a sub was shot and sunk, huge blips on the radar from the wrong direction of the arriving B-17's, all add up and make you go hmmmmmm.
Anyone want to borrow my "tin" foil hat?
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On a side note, my friends dad worked as a civilian at PH in 1941. He said everyday and every hour (24/7), there is a crew working on the ships. Holidays and all. But on Saturday 12/6, the boss told his crew to take the day off tomorrow (12/7/1941). They were overjoyed because no crew gets the entire day off.
Hard to wage a war if the guys who fix the ships are dead. So this, in combo with the carriers all of a sudden being out of port, the lack of believing a sub was shot and sunk, huge blips on the radar from the wrong direction of the arriving B-17's, all add up and make you go hmmmmmm.
Anyone want to borrow my "tin" foil hat?
I've heard lots of those conspiracy stories. Are they true? Who knows. However, from what I can tell from history, the US had plenty of reasons to jump right in the fight. Same for France and Britain, though way before the US was even remotely thinking about joining the fray.
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I've been curious about Japan after the surrender. The US wrote the new constitution which the Japanese government approved with the blessing of the Emperor. Despite the fact that it was written by a foreign power, it has never been amended, maybe because the politicians are afraid that the government will return to their old ways. Abe no longer wants to apologize for Japan's role in the war. Have they made up for their atrocities 73 years later?
https://youtu.be/LK738CDh21g
Haven't seen Big Red One for some time. I remember it was the French Vichy who greeted the soldiers but could be wrong. One situation that was unbelievable was the sinking of the Vichy fleet. The French were about to hand over the fleet to the Nazis and Churchill said he'd sink it first, so that's what he did.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-5wFWx2Gu4
I consider my family to be victims of the Nazis.
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Having done a lot of work at Pearl Harbor, there are tons of history to be learned. Both from the folks that work there as well as the facilities themselves.
I've worked on repairing a number of the wharves/piers and dry docks. Many of them were built in the early 1900s. Most of them have graffiti below deck. I've seen a bunch dated just prior to the bombing of Pearl Harbor.
When I worked on one of the big warehouses where they fabricate panels for the ships hulls, one old timer told a story of why this one area was haunted. The story was that just after the bombing, that area was used as a temporary morgue. A high school classmate worked there and he said that he's worked in that building late a bunch of times and that "it's spooky" when they have to stay late and it's maybe just 2-3 guys.
I've been to Yokosuka many times and they still have many of the bunkers and tunnels of the original base. When I was walking around the base, I would think about what that place was like during the war days. So much history in both places. Some good, some bad. . .
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I've been curious about Japan after the surrender. The US wrote the new constitution which the Japanese government approved with the blessing of the Emperor. Despite the fact that it was written by a foreign power, it has never been amended, maybe because the politicians are afraid that the government will return to their old ways. Abe no longer wants to apologize for Japan's role in the war. 1) Have they made up for their atrocities 73 years later?
SNIP
Haven't seen Big Red One for some time. I remember it was the French Vichy who greeted the soldiers but could be wrong. One situation that was unbelievable was the sinking of the Vichy fleet. The French were about to hand over the fleet to the Nazis and Churchill said he'd sink it first, so that's what he did.
SNIP
2) I consider my family to be victims of the Nazis.
1) Try asking the Korean and Chinese. . .
2) They did some terrible things, that's for sure. Reminds me of the scene from Saving Private Ryan when Pvt Mellish (I think it was him) was taunting the captured German solders, letting them know he was "Juden".
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1) Try asking the Korean and Chinese. . .
The irony is that the US developed the Marshall Plan to rebuild Europe and MacArthur's efforts to rebuild Japan. Subsequently, Japan was supposed to rebuild the Philippines. Unfortunately, Marcos pocketed the reparations and screwed over the population. Imelda claimed the money for her shoe collection came from money they saved. There's further speculation that their wealth came from the gold that General Yamashita horded during the occupation of the Philippines.
Also reminds me of this movie. Churchill is famously misquoted to say, "Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing…after they have exhausted all other possibilities."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHLUF38_UY8
Mountjoy: We must declare war on the United States.
Benter: But we can never win such a war!
Mountjoy: Of course not, but we could win the peace. I've given this a lot of thought gentlemen and I'm perfectly positive that I am right. You must remember, the Americans are a very strange people. Whereas other countries rarely forgive anything, the Americans forgive anything. There isn't a more profitable undertaking for any country than to declare war on the United States and to be defeated.