2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: Flapp_Jackson on August 10, 2018, 03:35:48 PM
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There will be no third trial for federal agent Christopher Deedy
HONOLULU (KHON2) - There will be no third trial for federal agent Christopher Deedy.
On Friday, U.S. District Judge Derrick Watson issued an order that the state may not proceed with Deedy's
October 2018 retrial on reckless manslaughter or any included offenses without violating constitutional prohibitions.
"After careful review of the record, arguments of counsel, and consideration of the relevant authorities, including
the Supreme Court’s decision in Evans v. Michigan, 568 U.S. 313 (2013), the circuit court’s determination of the
absence of evidence of recklessness, and resulting decision not to instruct or submit the reckless manslaughter
claim to the jury during the first trial, is an 'acquittal' for purposes of double jeopardy."
Deedy is accused of killing Kollin Elderts at a Waikiki McDonalds in 2011. He was assigned to provide security during
the APEC conference in Waikiki.
His first trial ended in a mistrial. The second time around, he was found not guilty of murder but jurors could not agree
on the lesser charge of manslaughter.
https://www.khon2.com/news/local-news/there-will-be-no-third-trial-for-federal-agent-christopher-deedy/1360031571
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:shaka: I approve of that message.
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:shaka: I approve of that message.
ditto that. Unfortunately this decision will be appealed...it's not over yet.
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ditto that. Unfortunately this decision will be appealed...it's not over yet.
10-4 Mike.... this still ain’t over.....hopefully it is though.... :closed:
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ditto that. Unfortunately this decision will be appealed...it's not over yet.
yup, the AG or state/circuit court judge will sue/appeal, most likely blaming the whole thing on trump
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Can we try OJ Simpson again? The ratings were off the hook! ;D
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ditto that. Unfortunately this decision will be appealed...it's not over yet.
There are lots of reasons I don't think they will appeal this. After 7 years, it's time to drop it.
The Circuit Court ruled any attempt to refile would be unconstitutional under double jeopardy.
They can waste more money appealing it, but my opinion since the end of the second trial was the same: being found not guilty on one count and unable to come to agreement on a lesser charge should have ended this case with an acquittal.
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Can we try OJ Simpson again? The ratings were off the hook! ;D
It was too bad when they canceled that show. The Dancing Itos were funny. Apparently, the law school the prosecutors went to didn't cover double jeopardy.
https://youtu.be/QQezL9pLUN4
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Curious, from the same judge that struck down one of the Trump Travel bans.
Great stuff. I hope it holds.
Aloha
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The SS has a hell of a PR firm. Little to no mention in all the years on world news.
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Kaniela Ing was there :rofl:
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The SS has a hell of a PR firm. Little to no mention in all the years on world news.
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
They aren't called the Secret Service for nothing! :rofl:
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Elders was a drunk/high thug who picked on the wrong person after running his mouth.
That was a stand your ground case but the screwed up laws in Hawaii don't allow humans to protect themselves from thugs. Hence why the local thugs go around pounding their chests.
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Hypotheticaly same case but there is clear evidence that Deedy commited manslaughter. Would you support or not support a 3rd trial?
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Hypotheticaly same case but there is clear evidence that Deedy commited manslaughter. Would you support or not support a 3rd trial?
Hypothetically, the prosecution would have tried him for the correct charge the first time. There should have never been a second trial, much less a third.
Either they had the evidence to support the manslaughter conviction, or they should have offered him a plea deal for aggravated assault.
2013 -- Tried for 2nd Degree murder. Manslaughter wasn't an option. Resulted in a hung jury.
2014 - Acquitted of 2nd Degree murder. The jury deadlocked on lesser charges of manslaughter and assault.
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If they went for manslaughter and loss, would it set precident for anyone using deadly force in the same situation?
Maybe thats why they never go after him for that.
Unarmed vs. Armed.
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Deedy was also legally carrying a gun.
Here is a hypothetical question.
If you got jumped by 3 guys with knives out to commit mayhem in Waikiki and pulled your legally owned gun and they ran when they saw the gun, who would you say is going to be arrested and be spending the night in jail?
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This sounds pretty specific. The State can't file again.
The Supreme Court curbed this discretion in Blockburger v. United States. The Court said that the government may prosecute
an individual for more than one offense stemming from a single course of conduct only when each offense requires proof of a
fact the other does not. Blockburger requires courts to examine the elements of each offense as they are delineated by statute,
without regard to the actual evidence that will be introduced at trial. The prosecution has the burden of demonstrating that each
offense has at least one mutually exclusive element. If any one offense is completely subsumed by another, such as a lesser
included offense, the two offenses are deemed the same, and punishment is allowed only for one.
Murder Reduced to Manslaughter
Generally, murder is defined as the unlawful killing of another with malice, while manslaughter is the unlawful killing of another
without malice. However, in certain situations a charge for murder (either first or second degree) can be reduced to the lesser
crime of manslaughter. In Hawaii, the charge can be reduced if the killing was committed under the influence of an extreme mental
or emotional disturbance.
I don't see how manslaughter would be based on any facts not also included in the already acquitted charge of 2nd Degree Murder. Same course of conduct, same set of facts, same crime essentially.
If the State AG appeals this as he said he will, he's wasting our money, IMO.
I'm not a lawyer, but it seems like there is wide agreement across many lawyers that double jeopardy attaches unless the charges are fundamentally different. Murder and manslaughter are essentially the same except for one additional element for murder: malice.
Had the AG not included manslaughter as a lesser included charge in trial #2 and only charged 2nd Degree Murder, does anyone thing he could come back and refile manslaughter charges for the same crime? Of course not. The fact manslaughter was included in the trial as an option is irrelevant, regardless of the jury being deadlocked. You shouldn't be allowed to include lesser charges as a "shoehorn" around the Constitution to refile if the primary charge is dismissed.
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So technically, he was never acquitted of manslaughter. However (AFAIK), double jeopardy is supposed to prevent the prosecutor from trying lesser charges in subsequent trials until one finally sticks. The prosecutor is supposed to look at the evidence at hand and select the charge that fits the crime. The courts are not a buffet with a pile of clean plates for each trip.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_jeopardy
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This whole thing was making Hawaii look like a third world S-hole, IMO. Incompetence all around.
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So technically, he was never acquitted of manslaughter. However (AFAIK), double jeopardy is supposed to prevent the prosecutor from trying lesser charges in subsequent trials until one finally sticks. The prosecutor is supposed to look at the evidence at hand and select the charge that fits the crime. The courts are not a buffet with a pile of clean plates for each trip.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_jeopardy
If you read my post, it spells out what is a lesser, included crime and what is considered a separate crime.
The facts a prosecutor needs to prove for 2nd Degree Murder are exactly the same as they are for manslaughter except murder requires one additional element: malice. There are no elements for manslaughter that are not included in the murder charge.
Manslaughter is a subset of the facts for Murder, so if you acquit on Murder and charge manslaughter in the same trial, double jeopardy attaches to both charges.
Here's a better example of when they could refile:
Deedy kidnaps a woman, carjacks her vehicle in the process, and sexually assaults her.
The state can try him on kidnapping, grand theft auto and sexual assault charges in one trial. If he's acquitted of GTA and kidnapping, but the jury deadlocks on rape, the state can choose to refile the rape charge. Rape is not a "lesser charge" relating to GTA and kidnapping. It's a separate crime even though it was part of the same criminal course of conduct.
Manslaughter is a lesser charge of the same crime when also charging 2nd Degree Murder. So an acquittal for one is an acquittal for both.
That's my read on it. Based on what I've looked into, that's how double jeopardy protects us from being tried for 1st degree murder, then going through another trial for 2nd degree murder, and another trial for manslaughter, and another trial for aggravated assault, and so on. The Constitution protects us from prosecutors filing charge after charge for the same essential crime until they get a conviction.
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Either way his career at the SS is over. If he does stay, then he will have desk duty for the rest of his career.
I did enjoy the testimony by his friend. "There's a difference between "haole" and "f-ing haole".
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See florida stand your ground post.
DA went after him for manslaughter and not murder. Compared to Deedy.
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Either way his career at the SS is over. If he does stay, then he will have desk duty for the rest of his career.
I did enjoy the testimony by his friend. "There's a difference between "haole" and "f-ing haole".
He's a State Department Special Agent, not Secret Service.
He's been working at State Dept this whole time. If he was going to be fired, I think it would have already happened.
If he's meeting or exceeding the standards of his position, it's almost impossible to fire him.
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wasting state money with all these trials.
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I read that this trial has him in financial ruin. He should have bought ccw insurance.
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I read that this trial has him in financial ruin. He should have bought ccw insurance.
Like all cops, they know they can't convict, but they can run you through the "system"
until you are broke. There is no repercussions for their un-ethical behavior,
especially in Hawaii. It is what Democrats do.
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This whole thing was making Hawaii look like a third world S-hole, IMO. Incompetence all around.
I've lived here 18 years or so. Hawaii IS a third world S-hole.
Guam is about as crooked as can be but is a far better example
of a functional government than Hawaii.
Guam at least recognizes the 2nd amendment.
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I had to re-watch his testimony on the news. In 2011, I was not able to be a gun owner so I didn't look up self defense laws.
Now that I have looked into it a little, it still doesn't change my attitude toward Elders. He started a fight with someone who was armed. He didn't know when to back down.
But like above posted, a murder charge is different from manslaughter. And looks like the DA dropped the ball on this one. Whether intentional or not.
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I've lived here 18 years or so. Hawaii IS a third world S-hole.
Guam is about as crooked as can be but is a far better example
of a functional government than Hawaii.
Guam at least recognizes the 2nd amendment.
:thumbsup:
Started a new job last week. Sat at my desk and started a conversation with a guy next to me. Mentioned we just moved from Hawaii and his first question to me was "The police and government still corrupt over there?"
I just said "yes and the Police Chief is under Federal charges".
He said "Some things never change".
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I've lived here 18 years or so. Hawaii IS a third world S-hole.
Then you must be one insane individual.
Why do still live in Hawaii, while hating how we do things in here?
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That's my read on it. Based on what I've looked into, that's how double jeopardy protects us from being tried for 1st degree murder, then going through another trial for 2nd degree murder, and another trial for manslaughter, and another trial for aggravated assault, and so on. The Constitution protects us from prosecutors filing charge after charge for the same essential crime until they get a conviction.
So we agree. Good explanation.
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Kaneshiro going make a fool of himself by appealing Watson’s decision.
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Then you must be one insane individual.
Why do still live in Hawaii, while hating how we do things in here?
I did not say Hawaii was the only S-hole in America.
Fortunately the government here is so incompetent,
us rural guys can pretty much ignore Oahu.
Besides I really don't miss the yearly chore
of chopping 3 cords of wood for the winter, if I relocated.
I intend to stick around and do as much I can to legally destroy
the state government, OHA, and county government.
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here we go again
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I did not say Hawaii was the only S-hole in America.
Fortunately the government here is so incompetent,
us rural guys can pretty much ignore Oahu.
Besides I really don't miss the yearly chore
of chopping 3 cords of wood for the winter, if I relocated.
I intend to stick around and do as much I can to legally destroy
the state government, OHA, and county government.
:stopjack:
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I intend to stick around and do as much I can to legally destroy
the state government, OHA, and county government.
Sincerely, that sounds great! :shaka:
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I did not say Hawaii was the only S-hole in America.
Fortunately the government here is so incompetent,
us rural guys can pretty much ignore Oahu.
Besides I really don't miss the yearly chore
of chopping 3 cords of wood for the winter, if I relocated.
I intend to stick around and do as much I can to legally destroy
the state government, OHA, and county government.
:geekdanc:
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Deedy not done yet. State wants to try him on assault charges and Fed Appeals Court approved it.
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That would be double jeopardy right? I'm not a attorney. Just using common sense. Smh
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That would be double jeopardy right? I'm not a attorney. Just using common sense. Smh
They're going after him for a different charge. AFter this fails, they going after him for public intoxication.
How much tax dollars are and have been spent so far? Does anyone know? Also include his defense attorney and any cost the state/feds had to flip the bill for.
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I believe, even though I am not a lawyer (thank god!!), charges related to the SAME CONDUCT as were dismissed should be considered double jeopardy unless NEW evidence is discovered. You don't have to be charged with a lesser crime and acquitted for those charges to be deemed double jeopardy. We do not allow multiple bites at the apple via lesser and lesser charges until something sticks.
In the recent trial, he was acquitted of 2nd degree murder, and the jury deadlocked on the lesser count of manslaughter. The appeals court ruled that retrying on the manslaughter charge is prohibited under double jeopardy, since the facts of the case do not change between one charge and the other.
If they wanted assault to be a charge the jury could consider, they had their chance -- twice. The 9th Circus, though, says they can retry on assault, so I'm sure they'll do it.
The existing evidence already shows the assault and battery was on the part of the person initiating physical contact (Elderts), and Deedy was defending himself the way he was trained.
As for public intoxication, there is no evidence that he was LEGALLY intoxicated, since no BAC test was performed.
We have morons running the state, but I'm preaching to the choir.
After 8 years already, I'm wondering if the assault charge isn't moot under the statute of limitations. Class A felonies can't be charged after 6 years.
My guess is the state is trying to wear him down so he accepts a plea deal to ANYTHING (public disturbance?) just so they can record a "win".
Enough.
(https://i.imgur.com/rqYQRiu.gif)