2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: takeiteasy on December 24, 2018, 02:11:20 PM
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When a 80% receiver is completed and serialized, can it be registered on the first visit to HPD with the proper permit?
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When a 80% receiver is completed and serialized, can it be registered on the first visit to HPD with the proper permit?
Are you asking if you want to register the same time as applying for permit to acquire?
Also, is this for a handgun or long gun?
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A permit to acquire should not be necessary. You already acquired it as an unregulated, non-firearm hunk of material. You should only have to register it.
So, yes, if it conforms to the arbitrary interpretations of the law by whomever serves you at HPD, you should be able to register it in one visit.
We have two processes: Permits and Registrations.
Permit [to Acquire] is required for a transfer of ownership.
Registration is required for all firearms you already own, acquire or manufacture.
This is my understanding of how it works, but I have no personal experience with 80% receivers. I've registered C&R firearms, and no permit to acquire was required. They did ask me for my long gun permit when I registered my C&R pistol, so for a smoother transaction, you should go ahead and get/renew that before registering the receiver.
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With a current Permit to Aquire, a completed 80% is registered as any legal firearm.
In order to comply with H.R.S. 134-2(a), a Permit to Aquire is needed before any work is performed on the 80% as H.R.S. 134-2(a) specifies acquisition of a firearm "in any other manner".
The amount of visits one will make depends on the 80% in question and whether one will take a chance at confiscation. This is specific to 80% AR-types intended to be registered as a pistol. I went first to ask Firearms Division specifically what they wanted at the same time I registered something else, then made two more visits to ensure I was proceeding in a manner acceptable to them. However, my firearm could have been registered after completion but if there was anything they didn't like, they'd likely have confiscated it.
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A permit to acquire should not be necessary. You already acquired it as an unregulated, non-firearm hunk of material. You should only have to register it.
So, yes, if it conforms to the arbitrary interpretations of the law by whomever serves you at HPD, you should be able to register it in one visit.
We have two processes: Permits and Registrations.
Permit [to Acquire] is required for a transfer of ownership.
Registration is required for all firearms you already own, acquire or manufacture.
This is my understanding of how it works, but I have no personal experience with 80% receivers. I've registered C&R firearms, and no permit to acquire was required. They did ask me for my long gun permit when I registered my C&R pistol, so for a smoother transaction, you should go ahead and get/renew that before registering the receiver.
After reading this I realize a better question is .....
to register a 80% handgun receiver, do I need to apply for a permit to acquire and wait 2 weeks? Or do I take the receiver with me on the first visit with no PTA to register it?
Apologies if this has been answered before. I may need to visit HPD and get the answer personally.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B4FS9ynIMAAtWqa.jpg)
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What they don’t know, keep status quo.
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With a current Permit to Aquire, a completed 80% is registered as any legal firearm.
In order to comply with H.R.S. 134-2(a), a Permit to Aquire is needed before any work is performed on the 80% as H.R.S. 134-2(a) specifies acquisition of a firearm "in any other manner".
The amount of visits one will make depends on the 80% in question and whether one will take a chance at confiscation. This is specific to 80% AR-types intended to be registered as a pistol. I went first to ask Firearms Division specifically what they wanted at the same time I registered something else, then made two more visits to ensure I was proceeding in a manner acceptable to them. However, my firearm could have been registered after completion but if there was anything they didn't like, they'd likely have confiscated it.
It doesn't surprise me if HPD says you need a permit to work on it, only because it becomes a firearm at that point, but the permit to acquire "prior to working on it" is bad application of that law. When you acquired it, it was not classified as a firearm. Hence, there's no requirement to have a permit. If they want to require a permit prior to manufacturing a firearm, the law should be changed to include that.
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Question answered.
Mahalo
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It doesn't surprise me if HPD says you need a permit to work on it, only because it becomes a firearm at that point, but the permit to acquire "prior to working on it" is bad application of that law. When you acquired it, it was not classified as a firearm. Hence, there's no requirement to have a permit. If they want to require a permit prior to manufacturing a firearm, the law should be changed to include that.
Legally, the acquisition of the firearm is not when the 80% is received because at that point, it is not a firearm. The ATF considers an 80% a firearm when work is performed to manufacture a firearm. Using an AR-type receiver as an example, if any one hole is drilled or the fire control group pocket is started, it is considered a firearm. For pistol types, the slide rails, barrel pocket or seat, or action pin holes.
As the 80% is simply raw material used in the manufacture of a firearm, one must refer to Laws relevant to the manufacture of a firearm, specifically, manufacture of a firearm by a non-manufacturer. Since there are no Local or State laws addressing this, one must refer to the Federal Laws.
Where State Law applies in this case is Hawaii requires Permits to Acquire. 134-2(a) states prior to acquisition "in any other manner" so a permit is required as the acquisition is by manufacture of the firearm.
Where things become "gray" is the two week wait period as applied to pistol acquisition. I can only speak of my experience concerning this but I registered my pistol without a wait period but I also had a Permit to Acquire for long guns. Technically, I spent more time manufacturing the pistol so I don't know if that was a consideration but out-of-State registration doesn't have the wait period applied either.
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It doesn't surprise me if HPD says you need a permit to work on it, only because it becomes a firearm at that point, but the permit to acquire "prior to working on it" is bad application of that law. When you acquired it, it was not classified as a firearm. Hence, there's no requirement to have a permit. If they want to require a permit prior to manufacturing a firearm, the law should be changed to include that.
§134-2 Permits to acquire. (a) No person shall acquire the ownership of a firearm, whether usable or unusable, serviceable or unserviceable, modern or antique, registered under prior law or by a prior owner or unregistered, either by purchase, gift, inheritance, bequest, or in any other manner,
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§134-2 Permits to acquire. (a) No person shall acquire the ownership of a firearm, whether usable or unusable, serviceable or unserviceable, modern or antique, registered under prior law or by a prior owner or unregistered, either by purchase, gift, inheritance, bequest, or in any other manner,
Acquiring ownership involves the transfer of a firearm to you. That's not applicable for a non-firearm (80% receivers are not firearms).
This is a manufacturing issue.
There are ZERO federal restrictions on manufacturing a firearm for personal use.
At time of acquisition, no firearm was involved.
Pretty simple.
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Acquiring ownership involves the transfer of a firearm to you. That's not applicable for a non-firearm (80% receivers are not firearms).
This is a manufacturing issue.
There are ZERO federal restrictions on manufacturing a firearm for personal use.
At time of acquisition, no firearm was involved.
Pretty simple.
Acquiring means coming In to possession.
When you manufactured the firearm you case into possession of a firearm thru other means.
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Acquiring means coming In to possession.
When you manufactured the firearm you case into possession of a firearm thru other means.
That's a twist of definitions.
If you bought an 80% receiver, you came into possession of a non-firearm part through an unrestricted, legal transaction. ( == "acquisition")
Then you manufactured the firearm from the part you legally purchased ( == "Not acquisition")
"by other means" doesn't have meaning on its own. You have to look at the entire sentence, which includes the phrase "shall acquire the ownership of a firearm".
So, the permit should not be required for a non-firearm acquisition. Once you mill it, and it becomes a firearm, it needs to be registered. If they want to require a PTA for that, too, it's a broad interpretation of the wording of the law.
Courts are inclined to interpret laws as narrowly as the law is written based on common usage and definition of the language, not in a broad catch-all manner.
"Acquisition" and "manufacturing, milling or creating" are not the same.
For your/HPD's argument to hold water, all firearms brought into the state by visitors or new residents would require a PTA, as would C&R firearms, which we know is not the case. Therefore, "any other means" is not a universal catch-all requiring a permit for every single firearm of which you come into possession.
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That's a twist of definitions.
If you bought an 80% receiver, you came into possession of a non-firearm part through an unrestricted, legal transaction. ( == "acquisition")
Then you manufactured the firearm from the part you legally purchased ( == "Not acquisition")
"by other means" doesn't have meaning on its own. You have to look at the entire sentence, which includes the phrase "shall acquire the ownership of a firearm".
So, the permit should not be required for a non-firearm acquisition. Once you mill it, and it becomes a firearm, it needs to be registered. If they want to require a PTA for that, too, it's a broad interpretation of the wording of the law.
Courts are inclined to interpret laws as narrowly as the law is written based on common usage and definition of the language, not in a broad catch-all manner.
"Acquisition" and "manufacturing, milling or creating" are not the same.
For your/HPD's argument to hold water, all firearms brought into the state by visitors or new residents would require a PTA, as would C&R firearms, which we know is not the case. Therefore, "any other means" is not a universal catch-all requiring a permit for every single firearm of which you come into possession.
Before you mill it you are not the owner of a firearm. when you mill it you are. The milling process acquire's you the ownership of a firearm. All firearms bought into he state would not require a permit because they didn't acquire ownership in the state, C&R firearms are the same because you gain ownership when its mailed to you. Its already your before it enters the state. IF you had it sent via an FFL you would acquire it when the FFL transfers it to you.
When looking at the application of the law you have to look at the intent. The (stated) intent of the permitting system is to make everyone obtaining a firearm in the state to go though a background check.
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I’ve done it before. Doesn’t matter whether it is a rifle or pistol 80%. Make sure you have a valid long gun permit to acquire before beginning work. Once you complete it and serialize it. Take just the permit to acquire and the completed receiver into HPD and they will register it (do not bring slides, barrels, uppers etc). You are then done. HPD only has one process for any type of 80%. Long gun and and handgun 80% receivers are treated the same.
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The milling process acquire's you the ownership of a firearm.
And that's where you will never convince me my reading of the law is wrong.
You can only acquire ownership of property through a transaction (purchase, inheritance, gifting). Milling is not a transaction. Ownership was not transferred via milling.
If you bought the receiver, you own it. It became a firearm after acquisition.
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the term acquire means “to come into possession of, whether directly or indirectly, through a sale, trade, exchange,
or other transaction, and the term "acquisition" means the act of acquiring.”
https://definitions.uslegal.com/a/acquire/
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I’ve done it before. Doesn’t matter whether it is a rifle or pistol 80%. Make sure you have a valid long gun permit to acquire before beginning work. Once you complete it and serialize it. Take just the permit to acquire and the completed receiver into HPD and they will register it (do not bring slides, barrels, uppers etc). You are then done. HPD only has one process for any type of 80%. Long gun and and handgun 80% receivers are treated the same.
That tracks with how they treat C&R pistols, too. Long gun permit was needed to register it, but no Permit to Acquire a handgun nor 2 week wait.
I still believe they are incorrectly applying the law requiring a long gun permit for such cases. If it's not required for out-of-state firearms brought into the state, 80% receivers and C&R firearms you already own shouldn't require one either. Registration should be sufficient.
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And that's where you will never convince me my reading of the law is wrong.
You can only acquire ownership of property through a transaction (purchase, inheritance, gifting). Milling is not a transaction. Ownership was not transferred via milling.
If you bought the receiver, you own it. It became a firearm after acquisition.
https://definitions.uslegal.com/a/acquire/
§134-1 Definitions. As used in this chapter, unless the context indicates otherwise:
"Acquire" means gain ownership of.
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§134-1 Definitions. As used in this chapter, unless the context indicates otherwise:
"Acquire" means gain ownership of.
And you already own the receiver blank BEFORE any milling. Explain how you can gain ownership of something you already own. It's impossible to do.
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And you already own the receiver blank BEFORE any milling. Explain how you can gain ownership of something you already own. It's impossible to do.
When you had the 80% did you own a firearm ? No
When you milled the 80% do you own a firearm ? Yes
You gaine ownership off a firearm by manufacturing (other means)
How hard is that to understand.
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When you had the 80% did you own a firearm ? No
When you milled the 80% do you own a firearm ? Yes
You gaine ownership off a firearm by manufacturing (other means)
How hard is that to understand.
You gain OWNERSHIP by purchasing the blank.
You MANUFACTURED the blank into a firearm (by definition).
There was no transfer of a firearm, nor any "gain of ownership" of a firearm.
How hard is that to understand?
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Also, the ATF agrees with me. They limit the manufacturing of firearms from receiver blanks to personal use. Therefore the firearm cannot be transferred. In other words, ownership was established prior to milling and can never be transferred.
If milling a blank receiver constitutes "gaining ownership," and you purchased the blank from an FFL, then the ATF would require you undergo an NICS background check.
Licensed firearms importers, manufacturers, and dealers must conduct a NICS background check prior to the transfer of any firearm to a nonlicensed individual.
[18 U.S.C. 922(t); 27 CFR 478.102]
So, you milled it, but the FFL isn't required to do a background check. Must be because there was no transfer of ownership of a firearm.
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Why do you keep reverting to federal law. Were talking about Hawaii state law.
Hawaii law does not use the word transfer it used the word acquire
The only way your correct is if you ignore the wording of the the law, the intent of the law and the implementation of the law.
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And you already own the receiver blank BEFORE any milling. Explain how you can gain ownership of something you already own. It's impossible to do.
the same way the ATF can say that a 80% receiver is not a firearm until you scratch a few atom's of metal off the surface and then it is. Or how a small pink dot place don the location of the third pin with some crayon instantly makes the receiver a machine gun. Or how a bumpstock was not a machine gun and now it is. Or how a pistol is a pistol and not an SBR until you put the brace on your shoulder
Just BS used to control people and lawyers justifying their jobs.
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the same way the ATF can say that a 80% receiver is not a firearm until you scratch a few atom's of metal off the surface and then it is. Or how a small pink dot place don the location of the third pin with some crayon instantly makes the receiver a machine gun. Or how a bumpstock was not a machine gun and now it is. Or how a pistol is a pistol and not an SBR until you put the brace on your shoulder
Just BS used to control people and lawyers justifying their jobs.
But, the ATF already recognizes you own the receiver before milling. Their 80% threshold for "not a firearm" is obviously arbitrary, but that's unrelated to this.
As long as you are not otherwise prohibited under the GCA from owning that milled firearm, there are no restrictions or BG checks required -- per the ATF/FBI. The biggest limitation is you can't legally transfer it to another party, which implies to me any "ghost guns" you own are supposed to be destroyed upon your death.
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But, the ATF already recognizes you own the receiver before milling. Their 80% threshold for "not a firearm" is obviously arbitrary, but that's unrelated to this.
As long as you are not otherwise prohibited under the GCA from owning that milled firearm, there are no restrictions or BG checks required -- per the ATF/FBI. The biggest limitation is you can't legally transfer it to another party, which implies to me any "ghost guns" you own are supposed to be destroyed upon your death.
is that for Hawaii? ATF has guidelines on putting on serial numbers and then selling them is OK as long as they dont consider you a manufacturer (which probably depends on the mood of the agent)
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is that for Hawaii? ATF has guidelines on putting on serial numbers and then selling them is OK as long as they dont consider you a manufacturer (which probably depends on the mood of the agent)
What the ATF appears to be okay with, Hawaii implemented the exact opposite in our law, mainly to facilitate our 100% registration requirements. Can't register a gun without a serial number.
You're correct. There is no serial number requirement by ATF for firearms produced for personal use.
However, there is no reference to any ATF rule requiring a serial number to transfer it.
The firearm had to be manufactured with the INTENT of keeping it for personal use. If later you decide to gift or sell it, it's legal to do so. The hard part is proving your original intent was not to transfer it.
So, my original recollection was half wrong -- if you die, the ghost gun can be transferred. No requirement to destroy it.
Here's an excellent distillation of the ATF rules and specific sources regarding manufacturing your own firearms and markings:
http://www.gunsholstersandgear.com/2017/02/21/am-i-required-to-apply-a-serial-number-to-a-homemade-firearm/
CA passed a Ghost Gun bill that takes effect Jan 1, 2019, which requires a serial number on all firearms whether or not you made it, and transfers of ghost guns (from receiver blanks) are forbidden.
Provisions of the bill are retroactive to firearms owned prior to July 1, 2018.
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=201520160AB857
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Having gone through the whole process, I can tell you that manufacturing a firearm for personal use, no matter what the firearm is made from, is considered acquiring a firearm.
A 12" Chromium-Molybdium steel rod is just as much of a firearm as is a 4"×9"x2" block of aluminum. They fall into the same category as the 80%, not a firearm. I call them raw materials.
When the firearm is manufactured, it is by definition, a firearm, not "something-or-other" or "legal jargon excepting it from what it really is" but a firearm. Make no mistake, a felon in posession of a firearm manufactured by a non-manufacturer is indeed a felon in posession of a firearm.
Loking at the argument that manufacturing a firearm does not constitute acquisition of a firearm because raw materials were originally acquired, how then did the non-manufacturer procure the firearm?
No matter what the firearm was manufactured from, the end result is it becomes a firearm. The non-manufacturer did not have a firearm originally, but raw material. Somewhere in this process, the non-manufacturer must procure a firearm.
While one may argue that posession through manufacturing is not considerd acquiring because there was no transfer, to manufacture a firearm requires real intent. It would be near impossible to argue manufacture by accident or impulse, especially with an 80%.
With the intent that the final product of the raw material is a firearm, the non-manufacturer will be procuring in the State a firearm in a manner other than by purchase, gift, inheritance, or bequest.
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Having gone through the whole process, I can tell you that manufacturing a firearm for personal use, no matter what the firearm is made from, is considered acquiring a firearm.
A 12" Chromium-Molybdium steel rod is just as much of a firearm as is a 4"×9"x2" block of aluminum. They fall into the same category as the 80%, not a firearm. I call them raw materials.
When the firearm is manufactured, it is by definition, a firearm, not "something-or-other" or "legal jargon excepting it from what it really is" but a firearm. Make no mistake, a felon in posession of a firearm manufactured by a non-manufacturer is indeed a felon in posession of a firearm.
Loking at the argument that manufacturing a firearm does not constitute acquisition of a firearm because raw materials were originally acquired, how then did the non-manufacturer procure the firearm?
No matter what the firearm was manufactured from, the end result is it becomes a firearm. The non-manufacturer did not have a firearm originally, but raw material. Somewhere in this process, the non-manufacturer must procure a firearm.
While one may argue that posession through manufacturing is not considerd acquiring because there was no transfer, to manufacture a firearm requires real intent. It would be near impossible to argue manufacture by accident or impulse, especially with an 80%.
With the intent that the final product of the raw material is a firearm, the non-manufacturer will be procuring in the State a firearm in a manner other than by purchase, gift, inheritance, or bequest.
You're not understanding what I said.
The word "acquire" has the meaning of "to gain ownership of [something]" You are not acquiring ownership of a firearm. If you were, then ATF rules would apply.
You are manufacturing a firearm from things you already own [ <== key word]. How can you acquire ownership of a firearm unless it was owned by someone else prior to milling it? It's basic logic. "To acquire" requires a transaction. You even listed a bunch of examples: "purchase, gift, inheritance, or bequest." Those are transactions that involve transferring ownership.
You don't "acquire ownership" in and of itself. Ownership is not a thing. You acquire ownership of a firearm. Therefore, the entire thing rests on whether it was a firearm when you first acquired ownership of the blank.
Requiring a permit to acquire is just a workaround by HPD to force a background check for anyone completing an 80% lower. Period. It's not required by the letter of the law.
To answer the question of "how did the non-manufacturer procure the firearm," the answer is in the ATF rules: an unlicensed person can manufacture a firearm with no restrictions as long as the person is not prohibited from possessing a firearm under the GCA. He procured the blank, and milled it into a firearm. The material was owned already. There was no procurement of the firearm -- it was made, milled, assembled, created, produced, but not acquired.
It's Hawaii police that want to apply "acquisition/procurement" rules to a manufactured firearm for personal use, not the ATF.
Intent is irrelevant. Federal law specifies you can manufacture a firearm with no restrictions, without serial numbers, background checks, etc. Period.
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Arguing semantics in court doesn't sound like a winning proposition, especially when the words being argued are in a dictionary. That and any Court in the State of Hawaii when you're the defendant in a firearms case.
At this point, I have to suggest that anyone reading this thead err on the side of caution.
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Arguing semantics in court doesn't sound like a winning proposition, especially when the words being argued are in a dictionary. That and any Court in the State of Hawaii when you're the defendant in a firearms case.
At this point, I have to suggest that anyone reading this thead err on the side of caution.
Arguing semantics? Nope. I'm arguing about the wording used by lawmakers who went to college to become lawyers versus the police who do anything they can to reinterpret laws and discourage firearm purchases and ownership.
Courts are in the business of applying the law AS WRITTEN, not as interpreted by the police. If not, then we can just let the police pass sentence on all their perps. No need for judges.
I said several times HPD requires a long gun permit to register a firearm that was milled from a blank just as they did for registering a C&R pistol. So, that's the bottom line. I'm also stating my opinion that the permit process has been misapplied in those cases to satisfy HPD's background check schemes.
The law needs to be updated to include the process for making personal firearms, but then that would advertise such a thing exists. We can't have that!! Ghost guns run amok!! :shake: :shake: :shake:
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going to hijack this lawyerly discussion and mention Matrix's 0% ruger 22/45 kit is out. The 0% receiver and the jig is available but the parts kit is not done yet:
https://www.matrixprecisionparts.com/zero-percent-jigs/
You can finish this receiver with a drill, hacksaw, and some metal files.
Matrix also makes excellent 1911 80% tools and sig p228/229/220 80% tools and receivers.
And of course, Every Gun Part has ~3000 parts kits minus receivers
https://everygunpart.com/
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Arguing semantics in court doesn't sound like a winning proposition, especially when the words being argued are in a dictionary. That and any Court in the State of Hawaii when you're the defendant in a firearms case.
At this point, I have to suggest that anyone reading this thead err on the side of caution.
Hes not arguing semantics at all, Hes just making stuff up that if followed will send someone to jail.
Basically hes trolling.
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Hes not arguing semantics at all, Hes just making stuff up that if followed will send someone to jail.
Basically hes trolling.
You really have no clue.
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You really have no clue.
Next you will be arguing you dont need to register them either because you didn't bring them in from out of state and you didn't need to get a permit.
§134-3 Registration, mandatory, exceptions. (a) Every person arriving in the State who brings or by any other manner causes to be brought into the State a firearm of any description,.......
(b) Every person who acquires a firearm pursuant to section 134-2 shall register the firearm in the manner prescribed by this section within five days of acquisition........
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Next you will be arguing you dont need to register them either because you didn't bring them in from out of state and you didn't need to get a permit.
§134-3 Registration, mandatory, exceptions. (a) Every person arriving in the State who brings or by any other manner causes to be brought into the State a firearm of any description,.......
(b) Every person who acquires a firearm pursuant to section 134-2 shall register the firearm in the manner prescribed by this section within five days of acquisition........
Stop trolling me. It's not going to work.
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going to hijack this lawyerly discussion and mention Matrix's 0% ruger 22/45 kit is out. The 0% receiver and the jig is available but the parts kit is not done yet:
https://www.matrixprecisionparts.com/zero-percent-jigs/
You can finish this receiver with a drill, hacksaw, and some metal files.
Matrix also makes excellent 1911 80% tools and sig p228/229/220 80% tools and receivers.
And of course, Every Gun Part has ~3000 parts kits minus receivers
https://everygunpart.com/
Going to re-energize your hijacking... :D
Is there a good source for Mk. II, III, 22/45 barrels? I'd have made one a long time ago when the "jigs" were just paper templates but I couldn't find any decent (not used) barrels. I have a 24" barrel blank to make a barrel (eventually, other projects and all...) but that's time I'd rather spend on other things.
226 on the other hand, might have to do that too...
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Going to re-energize your hijacking... :D
Is there a good source for Mk. II, III, 22/45 barrels? I'd have made one a long time ago when the "jigs" were just paper templates but I couldn't find any decent (not used) barrels. I have a 24" barrel blank to make a barrel (eventually, other projects and all...) but that's time I'd rather spend on other things.
226 on the other hand, might have to do that too...
I have not, found a good source.
David at Matrix is making a complete parts kit which will include the barrel and given the quality of everything else he sells I suspect it will be on par or better than Ruger. I've used his 1911 tools to make a 460 Roland 1911 and a couple of Sig p228's His sig 80% was the only one I built that I would be completely comfortable carrying. It shot perfect and was 100% reliable when I had it.
upcoming parts kit:
(https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5913e6dc9f7456878ba626ee/t/5c21a5c48985837cb68c82d3/1545709006718/test1b+copy.jpg?format=1500w)
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Funny story. Not sure if true since its a "person heard it from a person kind of story." But someone apparently tried to register a couple of completed 80% pistol receivers on the Big Island and the police told them "they dont have serial numbers so you dont have to register them" If true, I wonder how many are out there floating around because the police dont think they need to be registered? true ghosts on the Island of huaka'i pō?
Given how they do not know the law on who needs a mental health clearance assessment, I would not be surprised if this was true.
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Ironically, if State Law simply defered to Federal Law, not only would there be no registration requirement, the serial number wouldn't be required either.
Of course trying to figure out what actually happened with third-hand info will likely yield no accurate answers, my guess is someone stated something that was later misinterpeted or ignored. My guess would be an explanation along the lines of "if this wasn't Hawaii..." where for the most part, would make the non-requirements true.
On the other hand, if it is true, we need more people like that in firearms division. Seriously. All of them would be ideal. I take it back, the whole Department would be ideal. Legislators aren't upholding the Constitution, Law Enforcement should despite that.
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Had anyone tried serial # BOTO808?
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
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Had anyone tried serial # BOTO808?
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
If I ever do one, I'm going to get a microscopic engraver and engrave out something like Pi to 10,000 digits as my serial number
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Just make it easy on yourself...
You went to Vegas on a vacation, while there, you bought an 80% at a great price. You "milled it" in your hotel room that night with a dremel, a couple of small files and a $15 drill from Harbor Freight, took it to the range to test it and then came home to The Peoples Republic of Hawaii.
You now no longer have to deal with whether you "acquired" it in Hawaii and need a pistol permit. You've just brought home your toy, now go down to HPD and register it per the out of state process and be done.
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Funny story. Not sure if true since its a "person heard it from a person kind of story." But someone apparently tried to register a couple of completed 80% pistol receivers on the Big Island and the police told them "they dont have serial numbers so you dont have to register them" If true, I wonder how many are out there floating around because the police dont think they need to be registered? true ghosts on the Island of huaka'i pō?
Given how they do not know the law on who needs a mental health clearance assessment, I would not be surprised if this was true.
The above is true, I’ve heard a similar version from a reliable source. When the police said "they dont have serial numbers so you dont have to register them", what they really meant is they have no procedure in place to register unserialized lowers. At least they didn’t confiscate the lowers.
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Well, I'm not going to tell them where it is...
I might have to move the the Big Island too...
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i just registered a stripped 80% lower this morning as a pistol. did not need to wait 2 weeks or need a pistol permit to acquire.