2aHawaii
Tools and Uses => Reloading => Topic started by: jase90 on January 23, 2019, 09:08:34 PM
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DISCLAIMER: Please DO NOOOOOOOOOT replicate what I am about to share with you as your outcome could be extremely far different than mine, and for the fact I almost... who am I kidding? I COMPLETELY disregarded Hodgdon's load data calculator. Some of velocities I am about to share with you ARE producing pressures WAY outside of SAAMI +p specs. I am just here to share the data that I got at the range.
I chose CFE-Pistol because it is one of the more plentiful slower burning action pistol powders on Oahu. I can find it in just about any store that sells gun powder and have seen a consistent price of just under $30 per pound. I've bought this powder for as low as $24 after taxes during sales.
As a new reloader just shy of making one year since I've started getting into the hobby, one of the biggest things that seemed to be lacking throughout the internet was visual aid of load development. Everyone talks about "look out for signs of overpressure" but I've seldom seen detailed progressive pictures from Load A thru whatever. I'm not saying what I experimented with was the smartest thing a reloader could have done. I am just here to contribute all my findings as best as I can for the next new reloader that had the same questions that I had. Starting load of 5.1gr thru 6.7gr of CFE-Pistol. I honestly didn't think I would make it that far without seeing blatantly alarming signs, but I did without seeing much of being a concern.
2nd DISCLAIMER: That being said I am only one sample size and have created my own process of testing, measuring, inspecting, and torturing the cases until failure (case mouth splits only so far with my highest test charge) to collect data. Everything you see here may have worked for me but could go terribly wrong for you. I HAVE ACCESS TO PRIVATE LAND away from bystanders to test these loads should an unfortunate incident occur. Should you use my data for anything other than information and entertainment, STAY AWAY FROM OTHER PEOPLE, do your own ladder testing, measuring, inspecting, getting to know your own equipments variations (in my case I'm specifically talking about the sizing die, powder throw, and bullet seating die). Put in your own hours, trust your gut, protect your face, and DON'T KILL ANYONE AROUND YOU (I had my friends stand stand about 10ft away directly behind me using my body as a meat shield when moving beyond published load data).
PRESS: Dillon 550C (LEE Undersized Die, DILLON Powder Measure System, RCBS Bullet Seating Die, LEE Factory Crimp Die).
BRASS: Mixed of my personal once fired brass (Blazer being the majority, Federal, PPU, PMC, GFL, Speer, Winchester). I have a batch of 100 that I've loaded up to 6 times with 5.9gr before getting my first case mouth split on one piece of brass.
POWDER: CFE-Pistol (Lot#: 1030917-2029)
BULLET: Everglades 124gr FMJ Recessed Base
PRIMER: Winchester SPP
COAL: 1.140"
CRIMP: .375"
TEST GUNS: Glock 19 Gen 5 4" barrel, SIG P365 3" barrel
CHRONOGRAPH: Competition Electronics set about 5ft away.
5.1gr CFE-Pistol / 1.140" COAL
Glock 19 Gen 5
1) 1080fps 2) 1089fps 3) 1077fps 4) 1092fps 5) 1082fps
Av: 1084
ES: 15
SD: 6.2849
5.1gr CFE-Pistol / 1.140" COAL
SIG P365
1) 1010fps 2) 1011fps 3) 1001fps 4) 1009fps 5) 1011fps
Av: 1008.4
ES: 10
SD: 4.2190
5.3gr CFE-Pistol / 1.140" COAL
Glock 19 Gen 5
1) 1122fps 2) 1107fps 3) 1101fps 4) 1110fps 5) 1101fps
Av: 1108.2
ES: 21
SD: 8.6429
5.3gr CFE-Pistol / 1.140" COAL
SIG P365
1) 1035fps 2) 1014fps 3) 1028fps 4) 1041fps 5) 1040fps
Av: 1031.6
ES: 13
SD: 11.1040
5.5gr CFE-Pistol / 1.140" COAL
Glock 19 Gen 5
1) 1151fps 2) 1132fps 3) 1155fps 4) 1157fps 5) 1158fps
Av: 1150.6
ES: 26
SD: 10.7377
5.5gr CFE-Pistol / 1.140" COAL
SIG P365
1) 1071fps 2) 1074fps 3) 1058fps 4) 1070fps 5) 1062fps
Av: 1067
ES: 16
SD: 6.7082
5.7gr CFE-Pistol / 1.140" COAL
Glock 19 Gen 5
1) 1197fps 2) 1186fps 3) 1179fps 4) 1186fps 5) 1180fps
Av: 1185.6
ES: 18
SD: 7.1624
5.7gr CFE-Pistol / 1.140" COAL
SIG P365
1) 1109fps 2) 1116fps 3) 1115fps 4) 1098fps 5) 1111fps
Av: 1109.8
ES: 18
SD: 7.1902
5.9gr CFE-Pistol / 1.140" COAL
Glock 19 Gen 5
1) 1213fps 2) 1223fps 3) 1215fps 4) 1207fps 5) 1226fps
Av: 1216.8
ES: 19
SD: 7.6941
5.9gr CFE-Pistol / 1.140" COAL
SIG P365
1) 1141fps 2) 1134fps 3) 1155fps 4) 1160fps 5) 1143fps
Av: 1146.6
ES: 26
SD: 10.6442
6.1gr CFE-Pistol / 1.140" COAL
Glock 19 Gen 5
1) 1240fps 2) 1253fps 3) 1243fps 4) 1232fps 5) 1242fps
Av: 1242
ES: 21
SD: 7.5166
6.1gr CFE-Pistol / 1.140" COAL
SIG P365
1) 1169fps 2) 1169fps 3) 1177fps 4) 1161fps 5) 1185fps
Av: 1172.2
ES: 24
SD: 9.1214
6.3gr CFE-Pistol / 1.140" COAL
Glock 19 Gen 5
1) 1287fps 2) 1274fps 3) 1262fps 4) 1265fps 5) 1272fps
Av: 1272
ES: 25
SD: 9.7211
6.3gr CFE-Pistol / 1.140" COAL
SIG P365
1) 1188fps 2) 1192fps 3) 1201fps 4) 1223fps 5) 1209fps
Av: 1202.6
ES: 35
SD: 14.0107
6.5gr CFE-Pistol / 1.140" COAL
Glock 19 Gen 5
1) 1288fps 2) 1297fps 3) 1309fps 4) 1305fps 5) 1299fps
Av: 1299.6
ES: 21
SD: 8.0498
6.5gr CFE-Pistol / 1.140" COAL
SIG P365
1) 1217fps 2) 1212fps 3) 1219fps 4) 1217fps 5) 1226fps
Av: 1218.2
ES: 14
SD: 5.0695
6.7gr CFE-Pistol / 1.140" COAL
Glock 19 Gen 5
1) 1328fps 2) 1328fps 3) 1318fps 4) 1321fps 5) 1316fps
Av: 1322.2
ES: 12
SD: 5.5856
6.7gr CFE-Pistol / 1.140" COAL
SIG P365
1) 1233fps 2) 1248fps 3) 1257fps 4) 1240fps 5) 1262fps
Av: 1248
ES: 29
SD: 11.8953
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Referenced pressure reading method by this gentleman published by Western Powders who referenced this measurement reading from Lyman.
http://blog.westernpowders.com/2015/11/important-steps-to-9-x-19mm-p-defense-load-success/
Case head measurements taken at .200" above the rim, caliper blades placed at 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock where the feed ramp would be; the least supported portion of the case (Glocks make it easy to distinguish the relation of the case when struck because of its asymmetrical firing pin). Pictures are the largest readings for that particular powder charge using Blazer Brass cases which were the majority of cases loaded.
How true this holds? Don't know. But here are my reading for those interested.
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Now that you clocked the NATO ammo, you can see that the 4.4 TG and 5.1 CFE effectively simulates the NATO round at pretty safe charge weights. If you seek hot kicking ammo, you are barking up the wrong tree.
More kicks??
Change to your Dads 45acp and run any plated, jacketed, or coated bullet with a generous amount of almost any common powder.
BUT...Stay within the published charge weights. I can recommend...
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i mean no offense, but this is probably one of the dumbest reloading threads on this forum.
oldfart is probably just being too nice to tell you how dumb of an idea this was.
if you're going to do something stupid like this, then i suggest you use a different firearm. even though glock chambers provide a lot of support to the case, there is still some part of the case head that is unsupported. the weak link in your testing is not the strength of the barrel, chamber, or breach face; the weak link is the brass itself. if you plan to do additional testing, i suggest you locate a firearm with a fully supported chamber, or find brass with really thick case walls (especially near the head).
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You're playing with a ticking bomb. The specs are there for your safety. Going under would probably be ok (squibs), but going over can cause a major injury.
And since you're new to reloading, I would stop going over. The comp shooters have more details on how to "overload" the brass and have $10,000 guns that are designed to handle the pressure.
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I appreciate all the tough love, constructive criticism and concern. I take full responsibility of what could of happened.
That being said. I will get the measurements of the cases with calipers just above the webbing from the bottom of the case to case walls and compare them from my lowest charge to the highest. I will use the Blazer cases since that is the majority of my cases tested. These cases are retired and are going on my shelf as reference. My goal wasn't to please anyone, it was to put as much hard facts out as possible.
Yes Dave, NATO 9mm doesn't reach advertise velocity out of a 4" Barrel. Probably out of a 5".
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I appreciate all the tough love, constructive criticism and concern. I take full responsibility of what could of happened.
I don't know where you are firing these rounds, so excuse me if you're already taking these steps to mitigate what could happen to the half dozen other shooters and RSOs near you on the public range.
I recommend you pay for a private lane at an indoor range to prevent injury to others if/when your experiments literally blow up in your face. That assumes you can find one that allows what you're doing, in light of liability litigation being what it is today.
(https://i.imgur.com/gFKF33d.jpg?2)
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I don't know where you are firing these rounds, so excuse me if you're already taking these steps to mitigate what could happen to the half dozen other shooters and RSOs near you on the public range.
I recommend you pay for a private lane at an indoor range to prevent injury to others if/when your experiments literally blow up in your face. That assumes you can find one that allows what you're doing, in light of liability litigation being what it is today.
(https://i.imgur.com/gFKF33d.jpg?2)
Shot on coworkers private land in Waimanalo. The Titegroup testing, yes I did take that to KHSC. Shouldnt have.
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That being said. I will get the measurements of the cases with calipers just above the webbing from the bottom of the case to case walls and compare them from my lowest charge to the highest. I will use the Blazer cases since that is the majority of my cases tested. These cases are retired and are going on my shelf as reference. My goal wasn't to please anyone, it was to put as much hard facts out as possible.
i don't think you will learn anything from measuring the case wall thickness; that data will probably not be useful to you in any way.
i am guessing that, for 9mm brass, the case head/walls will either hold the pressure or they will rupture. i don't think that there will be any obvious signs of weakening before the case wall actually fails. take a look at that thread.
https://www.ingunowners.com/forums/ammunition-reloading/191612-9mm-kaboom-closeups.html
it would be really unfortunate if your barrel begins the tilting/unlocking phase before chamber pressures drop back down to safe levels. one of the reasons why the 9mm Major shooters use heavier recoil springs is because it helps to delay the tilting/unlocking of the action. i'm guessing you're not using extra stiff recoil springs in your gun
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i don't think you will learn anything from measuring the case wall thickness; that data will probably not be useful to you in any way.
i am guessing that, for 9mm brass, the case head/walls will either hold the pressure or they will rupture. i don't think that there will be any obvious signs of weakening before the case wall actually fails. take a look at that thread.
https://www.ingunowners.com/forums/ammunition-reloading/191612-9mm-kaboom-closeups.html
it would be really unfortunate if your barrel begins the tilting/unlocking phase before chamber pressures drop back down to safe levels. one of the reasons why the 9mm Major shooters use heavier recoil springs is because it helps to delay the tilting/unlocking of the action. i'm guessing you're not using extra stiff recoil springs in your gun
Great read. I just book marked it.
The measuring of the brass with calipers in a certain location was from an article from Western Powders written by Kevin Newberry.
http://blog.westernpowders.com/2015/11/important-steps-to-9-x-19mm-p-defense-load-success/
All 19 Gen 5 spent cases still plunk into the chamber and can be spun 360° without feeling a bump which, correct me if I'm wrong, means the brass was extracted after pressures have dropped.
The P365 on the other hand some 5.1gr cases and all 5.3 thru 6.7gr cases do not plunk back into the chamber. I'm guessing that is a normal biproduct of this particular firearm? IIRC I tried to plunk spent factory Blazer Brass cases back into the P365 chamber and none of them would fall in under it's own weight. I did not see any extractor printing on the bottom side of the rims. I can't conclude though that it does not mean the case is being extracted under some pressure.
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Jase
Just don't do this kind of experiments any more OK?
We don't need to lose any more gun friends.
Either you or innocent bystanders.
IIRC, about 2 years ago my friend was hit by shrapnel over on the rifle range side.
It was from a 9mm carbine on the adjacent bench. The shrapnel penetrated his body and nearly killed him.
I'll probably see him on Sunday so I can ask him again exactly what got hit.
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Jase
Just don't do this kind of experiments any more OK?
We don't need to lose any more gun friends.
Either you or innocent bystanders.
IIRC, about 2 years ago my friend was hit by shrapnel over on the rifle range side.
It was from a 9mm carbine on the adjacent bench. The shrapnel penetrated his body and nearly killed him.
I'll probably see him on Sunday so I can ask him again exactly what got hit.
Was this from a guy who used the wrong barrel shroud on his 9mm carbine?
Also I think last year someone was injured on the pistol side by a revolver that exploded. Shooter was fine, neighbor got seriously injured. I don't remember if it was reloads or factory ammo that was used.
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Was this from a guy who used the wrong barrel shroud on his 9mm carbine?
...
I dunno
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Was this from a guy who used the wrong barrel shroud on his 9mm carbine?
Also I think last year someone was injured on the pistol side by a revolver that exploded. Shooter was fine, neighbor got seriously injured. I don't remember if it was reloads or factory ammo that was used.
IIRC the round fired out of battery partially due to the blowback design. Schrapnel seriously injured the neighboring shooter. Luckily he recovered.
I believe the revolver incident you speak of was at the Silhouette Range.
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jase90, the info you've posted is very informative and I appreciate you posting. I do believe that published data is conservative but I also feel you are playing with fire. Be cautious, very cautious.
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IIRC the round fired out of battery partially due to the blowback design. Schrapnel seriously injured the neighboring shooter. Luckily he recovered.
I believe the revolver incident you speak of was at the Silhouette Range.
correct on both, bushido
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I will do my best to post the stats and case wall measurements either tonight or tomorrow night. Covering a weekend shift at work.
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I will do my best to post the stats and case wall measurements either tonight or tomorrow night. Covering a weekend shift at work.
The article you referenced above is way too long for me to read (short attentions span :geekdanc:). With rifle calibers, case head measurements are done with brand new brass and measured with micrometers that are capable of ten thousanths increments. Not many calipers are capable of that kind of accuracy that I know of. Mitutoyos are .0005" if I recall correctly.
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The article you referenced above is way too long for me to read (short attentions span :geekdanc:). With rifle calibers, case head measurements are done with brand new brass and measured with micrometers that are capable of ten thousanths increments. Not many calipers are capable of that kind of accuracy that I know of. Mitutoyos are .0005" if I recall correctly.
I'm not going to make it to the bench tonight. But what I did was measured a batch of case heads of a factory loaded standard pressure Blazer Brass case or my stadnard pressure reloads, and compared them to the exact same spot mentioned in the article with my over the "over the book" charges.
IIRC standard factory and standard pressure reloaded Blazer Brass cases consistently measured .388" at the location .200" above the rim. The highest charge of 6.7gr varied between .389" thru .3895" at the same location. My digital calipers can only discriminate the 10,000ths of an inch in increments of 5. So if I want to measure more accurately I will need micrometer.
I will eventually get every little detail I find on this post eventually and share it with you guys through pictures.
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IIRC the round fired out of battery partially due to the blowback design. Schrapnel seriously injured the neighboring shooter. Luckily he recovered.
I believe the revolver incident you speak of was at the Silhouette Range.
Sounds like there was another incident at the pistol range on Friday. Seems to happen often over there, lot more than rifles...
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Case head measurements in the 2nd post after OP. Speculate away. Thank you for your patience for those who were interested.
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What is the purpose of all this?
???
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Sounds like there was another incident at the pistol range on Friday. Seems to happen often over there, lot more than rifles...
Prob because pistols cheaper than bench rifles. So no one wants to damage their rifle by being careless.
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What is the purpose of all this?
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Data. What I'm seeing, you're seeing. Minus a $700+ electronic pressure trace monitor.
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Sounds like there was another incident at the pistol range on Friday. Seems to happen often over there, lot more than rifles...
Hate to hear of any mishaps. In reality, it happens.
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My digital calipers can only discriminate the 10,000ths of an inch in increments of 5. So if I want to measure more accurately I will need micrometer.
I work in an industry that regularly uses micrometers and calipers. I do not know of any calipers that measures to .0001". .0005" is not enough to measure case head expansion. Precision machinist may have access to such a thing, I don't know. Micrometers are the only ones I know of.
I do reload both pistol and rifle calibers. I will say I do not push my pistol loads very hard as I do not have any reason to. I do on my rifle loads. Here's a link that may be worth looking into. It specifically references rifles. I do not know about pistols. .0005" is not enough. http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-education/tips-and-tricks/simple-trick-monitoring-pressure-your-rifle-reloads . Quick Loads may help you a lot. If you input good data, you'll get good results.
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I work in an industry that regularly uses micrometers and calipers. I do not know of any calipers that measures to .0001". .0005" is not enough to measure case head expansion. Precision machinist may have access to such a thing, I don't know. Micrometers are the only ones I know of.
I do reload both pistol and rifle calibers. I will say I do not push my pistol loads very hard as I do not have any reason to. I do on my rifle loads. Here's a link that may be worth looking into. It specifically references rifles. I do not know about pistols. .0005" is not enough. http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-education/tips-and-tricks/simple-trick-monitoring-pressure-your-rifle-reloads . Quick Loads may help you a lot. If you input good data, you'll get good results.
My only question would be since chamber IDs vary from weapon to weapon even of the same make and model so I've heard, wouldn't they have different expansion readings?
Correct me if I'm wrong. A know standard pressure load fired from weapon A produces a measurement of X. Use known standard pressure load fired from weapon A as a baseline. Measure expansion as powder charge increases against known standard pressure case fired from weapon A.
As a welder I work close to a machinist in our shop. Maybe one day he will be kind enough to let me borrow his micrometer. Which he treats like a childhood blanket. He performs magic with his measuring tools, lathe and bridgeport. I'm trying to get him to mill and tap an optics slot on my P365. Meh, anyways I digress. I understand the acceptance of tolerances and safety nets for deviation because of that man. I will try to replace the caliper pictures with micrometer pictures one day.
I'm hoping to find just as much information on pistol cartridge expansion as there is rifle cartridge load development. For now all I was able to find was that Western Powders article.
As far as Quickloads I've read that the 2018 revision does not have CFE-Pistol Data added to the software yet. I'm hoping 2019's revision will. I will be investing in it soon.
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My only question would be since chamber IDs vary from weapon to weapon even of the same make and model so I've heard, wouldn't they have different expansion readings?
Correct me if I'm wrong. A know standard pressure load fired from weapon A produces a measurement of X. Use known standard pressure load fired from weapon A as a baseline. Measure expansion as powder charge increases against known standard pressure case fired from weapon A.
I will say I'm not a ballistician, nor do I push my pistol loads hard, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. :rofl:----- No. I believe you are mistaking case BODY expansion from case HEAD expansion. The body will expand from loose or sloppy chambers more than say a quality match chamber. The case head which is the thickest most portion of the case will expand due to the pressure. Hence the use of BNIB cases so they are not affected by any previous firings. Case BODY expansion is not a good way to measure pressure nor do I feel reading primers is the most accurate. I could go on but I will say check with reliable sources for information, not YouTube. I can't direct you where to go for pistols though Accurate Shooters/ 6mmBR is one I consider pretty trustworthy for rifles. I did not read the article you linked. ---- I'm sure some may disagree with me, that's life!!.
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i agree with bushido that you may be getting mixed up between case head expansion vs case wall expansion.
also, i know that there is a decent amount of variation between different pistol makers and the way that they decide to cut their chambers. as an example, when i pick up fired brass, i can usually tell which ones were fired out of my VP9 since HK adds a small step in the chamber, which results in a ring around the brass.
since the whole point of you doing this "experiment" was to increase recoil, i suggest that you take oldfart's advice and switch to a different caliber. go with 40S&W, 38 super, 357 sig, 45 acp, or 10mm. i think any of those will give you the recoil you desire.
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I will say I'm not a ballistician, nor do I push my pistol loads hard, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. :rofl:----- No. I believe you are mistaking case BODY expansion from case HEAD expansion. The body will expand from loose or sloppy chambers more than say a quality match chamber. The case head which is the thickest most portion of the case will expand due to the pressure. Hence the use of BNIB cases so they are not affected by any previous firings. Case BODY expansion is not a good way to measure pressure nor do I feel reading primers is the most accurate. I could go on but I will say check with reliable sources for information, not YouTube. I can't direct you where to go for pistols though Accurate Shooters/ 6mmBR is one I consider pretty trustworthy for rifles. I did not read the article you linked. ---- I'm sure some may disagree with me, that's life!!.
Lol!
I just checked my cases. Sorry I was wrong, .200" above the rim isn't the case body, it's the case head. Inside the case it is exactly where the webbing starts it's transition to the case wall. Measurements where on the case heads, gotta edit that.
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I'm not going to make it to the bench tonight. But what I did was measured a batch of case heads of a factory loaded standard pressure Blazer Brass case or my stadnard pressure reloads, and compared them to the exact same spot mentioned in the article with my over the "over the book" charges.
IIRC standard factory and standard pressure reloaded Blazer Brass cases consistently measured .388" at the location .200" above the rim. The highest charge of 6.7gr varied between .389" thru .3895" at the same location. My digital calipers can only discriminate the 10,000ths of an inch in increments of 5. So if I want to measure more accurately I will need micrometer.
I will eventually get every little detail I find on this post eventually and share it with you guys through pictures.
Calipers will only be accurate to +/- .001 at best
What is the purpose of all this?
???
I was thinking the same thing
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. as an example, when i pick up fired brass, i can usually tell which ones were fired out of my VP9 since HK adds a small step in the chamber, which results in a ring around the brass.
I always wondered why pews is always picking up and staring at his brass. For me, my rounds are fire and forget. As long as they go bang, it's all G.
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Using 5.9gr CFE-Pistol with this Lot# as a pet load, consistently hitting an 8" steel gong at 25 yards this morning and pinged it half the time at 50 and 75 with irons sights. I can't really ask more out of a handgun. I might see if I can hit that little bugger out at 200 yards today lol.
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If you are using the everglades 124 fmj with 5.9 hogdon cfe, then you are 15% over hogdon max.
Your primers showed excess pressure signs from both guns. But you already knew this, right?
I ran major power factor loads for years in my old ipsc gun. Eventually it resulted in a cracked frame.
I love shooting that old pistol and showing people what a steady diet of full power ammo can do to your gun.
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If you are using the everglades 124 fmj with 5.9 hogdon cfe, then you are 15% over hogdon max.
Your primers showed excess pressure signs from both guns. But you already knew this, right?
I ran major power factor loads for years in my old ipsc gun. Eventually it resulted in a cracked frame.
I love shooting that old pistol and showing people what a steady diet of full power ammo can do to your gun.
Not worried about it for my guns. I've done enough testing, measuring, inspecting, reloaded the same case with this load here in the field to feel comfortable production loading it for my Glocks and SIGs. Case scorching stopped at 5.9gr and is a laser beam load for me.
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Spotter said I hit the chains once at 200 yards out of 20 rounds LMAO. That's a win in my book!
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Inspecting my torture batch of cases today and got my first neck split. This one case out of a 100 round batch I've been using to torture the cases. This case has seen 6 loads of 5.9gr CFE Pistol.
Still no bulging or hair line cracks I can see on the case head. I will take neck splits before case head cracks everyday.
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Wtf?!?!?
It looks like the head of your case blew out, which means that you’re teetering on the edge of a kaboom. I hope you like buying new pistols frequently.
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Wtf?!?!?
It looks like the head of your case blew out, which means that you’re teetering on the edge of a kaboom. I hope you like buying new pistols frequently.
Lol yeah let's go with that,
aaaaaaaand that's the case mouth.
EDIT: I think I know what you might be looking at. That was just soot. Wiped it off and upped another picture for clarity
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Is your test gun a 365?
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Is your test gun a 365?
Yes a bone stock 19 Gen 5 and a P365. I have started shooting out of my custom built gen 3 19s/34 and M9A3 also.
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You should not post your Bad data. Some one may miss read Hopefully 2A will pull this listing
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You should not post your Bad data. Some one may miss read Hopefully 2A will pull this listing
Bruh. Let's do this again, just for you my friend... aaaaaaaaaaaaand SHAZAM!
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DISCLAIMER: Please DO NOOOOOOOOOT replicate what I am about to share with you as your outcome could be extremely far different than mine, and for the fact I almost... who am I kidding? I COMPLETELY disregarded Hodgdon's load data calculator. Some of velocities I am about to share with you ARE producing pressures WAY outside of SAAMI +p specs. I am just here to share the data that I got at the range.
2nd DISCLAIMER: That being said I am only one sample size and have created my own process of testing, measuring, inspecting, and torturing the cases until failure (case mouth splits only so far with my highest test charge) to collect data. Everything you see here may have worked for me but could go terribly wrong for you. I HAVE ACCESS TO PRIVATE LAND away from bystanders to test these loads should an unfortunate incident occur. Should you use my data for anything other than information and entertainment, STAY AWAY FROM OTHER PEOPLE, do your own ladder testing, measuring, inspecting, getting to know your own equipments variations (in my case I'm specifically talking about the sizing die, powder throw, and bullet seating die). Put in your own hours, trust your gut, protect your face, and DON'T KILL ANYONE AROUND YOU (I had my friends stand stand about 10ft away directly behind me using my body as a meat shield when moving beyond published load data).
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Just did a little messing around on my work bench. If any of you decide to use the EVERGLADES 124gr FMJ Recessed Base bullet heads, please be cautious. I just found out that the cartridge base to ogive measurements are incredibly inconsistent.
I originally used 5 bullet heads and a spent cartridge to give me my max overall length in my Glock chamber. The shortest max OAL reading I got for a particular bullet was 1.166" back then when I first used this brand of heads, and the other four bullet heads just a little over.
Well today I decided to just mess around on this gloomy day and did it again with a larger sample size. I have had a couple that maxed out in length at 1.143" :wtf:
I literally made my bullets just short enough by luck to accommodate the shortest max length in the box of heads I received.
Just heads up to anyone that use or thinking about using these bullet heads to chamber check these bullets meticulously.
EDIT: Reworded. Trying to use the "shortest longest length" was confusing lmao. Please let me know if this doesn't make sense lol. I can't English today.
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You should have this removed.
Your the stupid one Not the powder,
Bad info all the way around.
You should give up on reloading before someone dies
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Jase,
I think what you are doing is dangerous to yourself and to the people shooting next to you. Just because your "past the red line" loads tested okay in your guns does not prove they are safe loads to shoot anywhere. You did say you tested once at KHSC and shouldn't have. People here have politely warned you already. Imho, you are an accident waiting to happen. And the person hurt won't be you.
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You should have this removed.
Your the stupid one Not the powder,
Bad info all the way around.
You should give up on reloading before someone dies
*You're.
Think you should get that right at least before you loosely throw that word around. And what did the powder ever do to me or anyone else lol.
There's no point in getting fired up about this my dude. This is like over a month in the past and I've already got my numbers.
I have given my disclaimer and everyone here has there own free will to use their own judgement. The 1st Amendment cuts both ways.
I'll cut you some slack since you might just be following the crowd on this one.
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Jase,
I think what you are doing is dangerous to yourself and to the people shooting next to you. Just because your "past the red line" loads tested okay in your guns does not prove they are safe loads to shoot anywhere. You did say you tested once at KHSC and shouldn't have. People here have politely warned you already. Imho, you are an accident waiting to happen. And the person hurt won't be you.
Thanks for worrying for me. I don't shoot these loads at KHSC. I shoot them on private land. And I've shot a couple thousands of them already. When the brass mouths crack. I throw them away. Yes I did admit I shot one work up at KHSC one time and I did heed other people's warnings because that made sense. I don't want to hurt anyone else while doing my workups past book data. So I strictly do them on shared private land now.
*For everyone*
It is obvious this is not a popular post. But it has hard numbers and take away points. I apologize if I rattled some belief systems and codes some abide by, but I really don't care. I have my own work up system in place AND I don't have half a dozen people standing beside me like most shooters on Hawaii will. If my gun blows up, hey it's not your gun, or your face. And I'm pretty sure the friends I shoot with on private land would just laugh and make fun of my preference for Glocks.
The point is, all the numbers I got on my first test day are open to everyone. And since Freedom of Speech and press are a thing, here you go.
Oh and I feel like this will need to be a regular reminder, like every other week or so.
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DISCLAIMER: Please DO NOOOOOOOOOT replicate what I am about to share with you as your outcome could be extremely far different than mine, and for the fact I almost... who am I kidding? I COMPLETELY disregarded Hodgdon's load data calculator. Some of velocities I am about to share with you ARE producing pressures WAY outside of SAAMI +p specs. I am just here to share the data that I got at the range.
2nd DISCLAIMER: That being said I am only one sample size and have created my own process of testing, measuring, inspecting, and torturing the cases until failure (case mouth splits only so far with my highest test charge) to collect data. Everything you see here may have worked for me but could go terribly wrong for you. I HAVE ACCESS TO PRIVATE LAND away from bystanders to test these loads should an unfortunate incident occur. Should you use my data for anything other than information and entertainment, STAY AWAY FROM OTHER PEOPLE, do your own ladder testing, measuring, inspecting, getting to know your own equipments variations (in my case I'm specifically talking about the sizing die, powder throw, and bullet seating die). Put in your own hours, trust your gut, protect your face, and DON'T KILL ANYONE AROUND YOU (I had my friends stand stand about 10ft away directly behind me using my body as a meat shield when moving beyond published load data).
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*You're.
Think you should get that right at least before you loosely throw that word around. And what did the powder ever do to me or anyone else lol.
There's no point in getting fired up about this my dude. This is like over a month in the past and I've already got my numbers.
I have given my disclaimer and everyone here has there own free will to use their own judgement. The 1st Amendment cuts both ways.
I'll cut you some slack since you might just be following the crowd on this one.
*their
Think you should get that right at least before you loosely throw that word around.
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*You're.
Think you should get that right at least before you loosely throw that word around. And what did the powder ever do to me or anyone else lol.
There's no point in getting fired up about this my dude. This is like over a month in the past and I've already got my numbers.
I have given my disclaimer and everyone here has there own free will to use their own judgement. The 1st Amendment cuts both ways.
I'll cut you some slack since you might just be following the crowd on this one.
the First Amendment does not apply to a private website...
Think you should get that right at least before you loosely throw that word around
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*You're.
Think you should get that right at least before you loosely throw that word around. And what did the powder ever do to me or anyone else lol.
There's no point in getting fired up about this my dude. This is like over a month in the past and I've already got my numbers.
I have given my disclaimer and everyone here has there own free will to use their own judgement. The 1st Amendment cuts both ways.
I'll cut you some slack since you might just be following the crowd on this one.
the people who are commenting are all experienced reloaders, so the fact that they all agree is not "following the crowd" it is "a clue"
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*their
Think you should get that right at least before you loosely throw that word around.
Guilty, typing fast. And I'll give that other guy the same benefit of the doubt also.
I'm still hopeful people will at least get something out of my findings. Although it's completely against the grain.
Yes this is a private website, and it never came across my mind that 2Ahawaii.com could ever be like Facebook, YouTube, and Instagram. The owner reserves his rights to do whatever he so pleases with this thread or my account. Should I worry about what content my post contains now? This is a serious question.
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Guilty, typing fast. And I'll give that other guy the same benefit of the doubt also.
I'm still hopeful people will at least get something out of my findings. Although it's completely against the grain.
Yes this is a private website, and it never came across my mind that 2Ahawaii.com could ever be like Facebook, YouTube, and Instagram. The owner reserves his rights to do whatever he so pleases with this thread or my account. Should I worry about what content my post contains now? This is a serious question.
funny how you only give the other guy the benefit of the doubt when you make the same mistake...
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funny how you only give the other guy the benefit of the doubt when you make the same mistake...
In my defense it was merely a ribbing attempt back for calling me stupid and fell into the same ditch he was. "Reckless" would have been taken better. Either way, petty shit. The First Amendment cuts both ways.
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In my defense it was merely a ribbing attempt back for calling me stupid and fell into the same ditch he was. "Reckless" would have been taken better. Either way, petty shit. The First Amendment cuts both ways.
reading is fundamental
the First Amendment does not apply to a private website...
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reading is fundamental
the First Amendment does not apply to a private website...
Not to all people.
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This thread .....
(https://i.imgur.com/r3LaBCm.gif)
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I really didn't not intend it to be.
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Here is some perspective on hot 9mm ammo....
In the world of competitive action shooting, there is a rule called power factor.
If your ammunition achieves a higher power factor called "major", you are rewarded with more points.
Obviously everybody wanted more points, so eventually people started pushing 9mm to very high velocity with heavier bullets.
Then the guns started blowing up.
There are many old time combat shooters here in Honolulu who can tell you stories about themselves or their friends blowing up guns.
I've done it, and it ain't fun. (My story was a 38-45 Clerke wildcat)
The problem became so bad that the the governing bodies had to change the rules to lower the power requirements.
Today, people still use major 9mm, but the guns are built to take the higher pressure.
Your guns are not built to take the higher pressure, so it's just a matter of time before you blow yourself up.
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I really didn't not intend it to be.
try using your First Amendment right to post your data on a large reloading forum and see what type of "group think" they have there
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Here is some perspective on hot 9mm ammo....
In the world of competitive action shooting, there is a rule called power factor.
If your ammunition achieves a higher power factor called "major", you are rewarded with more points.
Obviously everybody wanted more points, so eventually people started pushing 9mm to very high velocity with heavier bullets.
Then the guns started blowing up.
There are many old time combat shooters here in Honolulu who can tell you stories about themselves or their friends blowing up guns.
I've done it, and it ain't fun. (My story was a 38-45 Clerke wildcat)
The problem became so bad that the the governing bodies had to change the rules to lower the power requirements.
Today, people still use major 9mm, but the guns are built to take the higher pressure.
Your guns are not built to take the higher pressure, so it's just a matter of time before you blow yourself up.
:thumbsup:
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In one last valiant attempt to post something relevant to what I initially put up, here is the cost breakdown of how much I saved vs buying loaded ammo. This was done with used brass and did not put any money into that category.
Prices are for the components I used in my OP. The price per round should drop even lower if you buy in bigger bulk and obviously, use less power than I did.