2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: drck1000 on February 19, 2019, 08:20:53 AM
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Sharing my experience with red dots on handguns. Feel free to share your experiences as well.
I've long been wanting to try a red dot on handguns, particularly micro dot type milled onto the slide. I actually bought a ZEV slide with Trijicon RMR Type 2 over a year ago and just now am getting around to shooting more with this setup. I've shot similar setups before, but those were just a mag here and there.
First thing I noticed was I need practice on picking up the dot. Both on the draw and in between shots. I expect the aspect of picking up the dot on the draw will improve as I get reps in. I haven't been shooting much in the past 8 months or so, so I'd expect even picking up my front sight to be slower. The aspect of in between shots will have to see as I shoot this gun more in classes and training, which I hope to do so in the next couple of weeks.
Second thing I noticed is that I am able to bring down my grouping size quite a bit. I'm guessing it's because I can focus on the target instead of the front sight. That and maybe I don't expect to be that precise with irons at 25 yards. Or at least my excuse when shooting and lower my level of "good enough".
Third thing I noticed is that shooting with the dot as well as dry firing, I am able to pickup on the bad that can creep in to my shooting. With dry firing, I can notice the dot jumping around even when the brass on the front sight doesn't fall. I also am able to better call my bad shots with what I am seeing when shooting.
Overall, I believe red dots on handguns are great. I just have to get used to them. I've spoken to many long time shooters who just can't seem to get over the issue of picking up the dot. So I will have to see for myself.
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When I fist started with red dots I tended to look low on the slide as if looking through the irons, so the dot would be missing. I had to get used to looking higher on the slide so I could pickup the dot.
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When I fist started with red dots I tended to look low on the slide as if looking through the irons, so the dot would be missing. I had to get used to looking higher on the slide so I could pickup the dot.
I think that was my tendency at first. My eyes would naturally go to the front sight. But I think now it's mostly my needing to get the gun on the right plane and level.
Another thing I noticed is that if I want to shoot a tighter group, I have to concentrate more on centering the dot in the window. Slight deviations result in quite a noticeable difference. I mean I was still generally able to keep things on an 8" target at 25 yards. Definitely not as forgiving as say an Aimpoint or EoTech on an AR, but I'm guessing that's mostly because of consistency afforded by the cheekweld.
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I've used a red dot only on a handful of occasions (not my gun). And I had trouble hitting steel at 20 yards for time. I actually was missing so bad that I used the irons instead. But to be fare, the heart rate was a bumping and I was sweating lots (HDF handgun class).
From what I've heard, it does take some getting used to. But once you do, it's all gravy.
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A guy at one of my FS classes was nailing the targets with a red dot on his Sig. Since then I got a green CT laser and during my last class at FS in Oct, I was able to get on target much faster with it. I was easily able to see the dot in the bright desert sunlight from 10 yards. What I like about a laser is you don't have to look through it. I can fire as soon as the gun clears the holster and I see the dot on the target.
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A guy at one of my FS classes was nailing the targets with a red dot on his Sig. Since then I got a green CT laser and during my last class at FS in Oct, I was able to get on target much faster with it. I was easily able to see the dot in the bright desert sunlight from 10 yards. What I like about a laser is you don't have to look through it. I can fire as soon as the gun clears the holster and I see the dot on the target.
Lasers might go the way of the bump stock since Aurora...Buy em now so the resale can be $700 while a ban is in the works.
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if you are focusing on the target before you press the trigger you are doing it wrong
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if you are focusing on the target before you press the trigger you are doing it wrong
I respectfully DISAGREE if it is a close range SD situation.
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if you are focusing on the target before you press the trigger you are doing it wrong
Including for red dots? Both handguns or long guns?
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To clarify, I'm not bullseye shooting with red dot. Seems like there are some bullseye shooters that advocate for focusing on the red dot. It was my understanding that most modern dots are designed to remain in focus regardless of the plane of focus for your eyes. But it seems like many bullseye shooters still choose to have a hard focus on the dot. Interesting.
Here's a video I found about that from bullseye perspective. It seems like he is advocating for either focus on target or dot, just not something in between.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUejbCKV6wQ
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You're supposed to keep both eyes open when shooting. Having said that, how many don't?
One eye should be seeing the red dot, and the other should be on the target. The brain will place the red dot on the target in the right spot.
There should really be no focusing on either target or red dot required.
However, since most close one eye or train themselves to focus on the front sight, we have to look at the mechanics. A red dot doesn't require front/rear sight alignment. So, focusing on the dot doesn't accomplish the same thing.
Focusing on the target in a fight is much more important than where the dot is. By the time the dot registers in your mind and you get it on target, it's too late unless you're not exposed.
I like to practice keeping both eyes open with the red dot. Even if you're cross-eye dominant, your brain still sees the dot in the correct spot.
Just my 2 cents. Practice, practice, practice.
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A guy at one of my FS classes was nailing the targets with a red dot on his Sig. Since then I got a green CT laser and during my last class at FS in Oct, I was able to get on target much faster with it. I was easily able to see the dot in the bright desert sunlight from 10 yards. What I like about a laser is you don't have to look through it. I can fire as soon as the gun clears the holster and I see the dot on the target.
I haven’t shot with laser aiming systems. I looked into them for long gun, but not really for handguns. That said, I wouldn’t mind trying a quality laser aiming system for a handgun. My buddy has a combined light and laser Streamlight, but haven’t really tested it.
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In my last class at FS, the instructor recommended closing one eye. I will see or ask the instructor what he recommends when I go next week. In all classes we are concentrating and looking at only the target when drawing and firing. This is practice for a SD situation. REN May have been thinking more along the lines of target shooting. If I was not under time pressure to get a shot off as quickly as possible, I would use the sights, not my laser.
Here is an interesting article to read.
https://www.usacarry.com/always-use-sights-self-defense-shooting/
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You're supposed to keep both eyes open when shooting. Having said that, how many don't?
One eye should be seeing the red dot, and the other should be on the target. The brain will place the red dot on the target in the right spot.
There should really be no focusing on either target or red dot required.
However, since most close one eye or train themselves to focus on the front sight, we have to look at the mechanics. A red dot doesn't require front/rear sight alignment. So, focusing on the dot doesn't accomplish the same thing.
Focusing on the target in a fight is much more important than where the dot is. By the time the dot registers in your mind and you get it on target, it's too late unless you're not exposed.
I like to practice keeping both eyes open with the red dot. Even if you're cross-eye dominant, your brain still sees the dot in the correct spot.
Just my 2 cents. Practice, practice, practice.
Good point on the keeping both eyes open. I do notice many folks close one eye on purpose and some unconsciously. I’ve found that I tend to at minimum squint my left eye when trying to shoot for more precision, not really on purpose.
Wonder what it would be like if we had chameleon vision. :P
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In my last class at FS, the instructor recommended closing one eye. I will see or ask the instructor what he recommends when I go next week. In all classes we are concentrating and looking at only the target when drawing and firing. This is practice for a SD situation. REN May have been thinking more along the lines of target shooting. If I was not under time pressure to get a shot off as quickly as possible, I would use the sights, not my laser.
Here is an interesting article to read.
https://www.usacarry.com/always-use-sights-self-defense-shooting/
Interesting on the recommendation to close one eye.
Different topic, but I recall many videos about focus in defensive encounter. My take away was first that the muscle memory from good draws and front sight focus in training is key. That said, ive only had experience in that with IPSC.
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Good point on the keeping both eyes open. I do notice many folks close one eye on purpose and some unconsciously. I’ve found that I tend to at minimum squint my left eye when trying to shoot for more precision, not really on purpose.
Wonder what it would be like if we had chameleon vision. :P
All depends. I tend to slightly squint 1 eye (guess which one) ;D. When taking the HDF pistol class and I'm not getting hits with my normal squint, I will then squint a little more, but never close completely. It seems to help me. Our events are timed and usually under physical exertion. So things tend to get sloppy.
But in a SD scenario, like Flap said, you're not going to have time to close/squint. Most likely, both open and ID target and "guesstimate". Within 7 yards, you should be able to get torso hits by point and shoot. Somewhere on the torso, rounds don't have to be touching.
If I have to be super accurate and squint, then the target is very far away and collateral damage is more a worry. So I may not take that shot. We're responsible for all rounds (heads) that exit the barrel.
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All depends. I tend to slightly squint 1 eye (guess which one) ;D.
You close BOTH eyes. :P
;D
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You close BOTH eyes. :P
;D
TQ around the neck to stop bleeding.
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TQ around the neck to stop bleeding.
Stop “problem” blood flow closest to source! :geekdanc:
All depends. I tend to slightly squint 1 eye (guess which one) ;D. When taking the HDF pistol class and I'm not getting hits with my normal squint, I will then squint a little more, but never close completely. It seems to help me. Our events are timed and usually under physical exertion. So things tend to get sloppy.
But in a SD scenario, like Flap said, you're not going to have time to close/squint. Most likely, both open and ID target and "guesstimate". Within 7 yards, you should be able to get torso hits by point and shoot. Somewhere on the torso, rounds don't have to be touching.
If I have to be super accurate and squint, then the target is very far away and collateral damage is more a worry. So I may not take that shot. We're responsible for all rounds (heads) that exit the barrel.
But seriously, totally understand about shooting under physical exertion and stress, even if self imposed, pressure of competition, someone yelling at you, whatevers.
See post above on focus, sighting, etc under stress. In general, I agree. While I’ve shot with folks that were excellent at point shooting, I believe they built that over many years of working fundamentals. In this one guy’s case, shotgun shooting. His vision got bad enough that his focus on front sight was limiting and couldn’t really see it well unless very static and very calm. He improvised. But again, I believe it was helped by many years of good practice with sight alignment and sight picture.
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How did you zero your red dot? The way my red dot sits on my handgun, the dot is on the front sight.
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How did you zero your red dot? The way my red dot sits on my handgun, the dot is on the front sight.
I do a mechanical zero using a bore-sighting laser. Then go to the range for final zero.
If the red dot co-witnesses with the pistol sights, and those sights are zeroed, just focus on a point using the sights and adjust the red dot to overlay that same point.
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How did you zero your red dot? The way my red dot sits on my handgun, the dot is on the front sight.
Dot is zeroed to POA/POI at 25 yards (what’s available). I just zero’ed how one would nornally zero sights. Get it close and then shoot on paper and adjust. Same as Flapp.
I actually had to zero twice since I had to send the slide back to MFR. Initial go around, I just zeroed the dot because the rear sight was stuck. Luckily it was close upon initial installation. Second go around, I had already confirmed the irons, so I moved the dot to match POA for irons and confirmed on paper.
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Dot is zeroed to POA/POI at 25 yards (what’s available). I just zero’ed how one would nornally zero sights. Get it close and then shoot on paper and adjust. Same as Flapp.
I actually had to zero twice since I had to send the slide back to MFR. Initial go around, I just zeroed the dot because the rear sight was stuck. Luckily it was close upon initial installation. Second go around, I had already confirmed the irons, so I moved the dot to match POA for irons and confirmed on paper.
I hate having to re-zero things. This affects what I buy/add on sometimes.
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I hate having to re-zero things. This affects what I buy/add on sometimes.
I hear ya. Sometimes it’s unavoidable. For the RMR, gotta take it off the slide to replace the battery. So I hope this battery lasts for a while.
But how does that affect what you buy or add?
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I hear ya. Sometimes it’s unavoidable. For the RMR, gotta take it off the slide to replace the battery. So I hope this battery lasts for a while.
But how does that affect what you buy or add?
It affects me because I have to make a special trip to the range to zero a rifle. And i'm the kind of guy that has OCD so if I add a sight, handguard, barrel, etc...leaving something that doesn't shoot straight in the safe for a while bothers me. Or even function test stuff. when my wife was building her AR, she got an ELF trigger. Took it to the range, didn't go bang even though I heard the click dry firing. Called Elf from my car and they trouble shooted me. Still didn't go bang. So I had to mail it back to them and they mailed me the newer model for free. Had to drive again to the range and it did go bang.
But to be fair, since I got my 22, I've been going to the range more often, so it wouldn't be to bad.
I know a guys who buy stuff and wait a very long time before they fire it. So I ask, how you know it works? But I guess it doesn't bother them as much.
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It affects me because I have to make a special trip to the range to zero a rifle. And i'm the kind of guy that has OCD so if I add a sight, handguard, barrel, etc...leaving something that doesn't shoot straight in the safe for a while bothers me. Or even function test stuff. when my wife was building her AR, she got an ELF trigger. Took it to the range, didn't go bang even though I heard the click dry firing. Called Elf from my car and they trouble shooted me. Still didn't go bang. So I had to mail it back to them and they mailed me the newer model for free. Had to drive again to the range and it did go bang.
But to be fair, since I got my 22, I've been going to the range more often, so it wouldn't be to bad.
I know a guys who buy stuff and wait a very long time before they fire it. So I ask, how you know it works? But I guess it doesn't bother them as much.
Ahh. Trust but verify. Or in this specific case, verify in order to trust. Got it.
I’m similar. I want to test things out and iron out kinks. I have backups and many times backups to backups, so that helps. I also have friends who either wait a long time to try or change something just before a class or competition. When things come up, it can ruin a day.
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What I do is zero my groupings windage to the iron sight as perfect as I am able to to the middle of my front sight blade. Then I slave my red dots windage to the exact center of the front sight blade with equal height equal light and make very minute adjustments from there if needed (wide front sight blade is pretty challenging to group perfectly to the center of the blade, the red dots job is to refine that aiming plane to a smaller surface).
For elevation I choose 25 yards and adjust to that distance. And the pictures below is what I end up with for a 25 yards zero.
As you can see windage wise, my dot is ever so slightly to the right on the front blade with equal height for equal light for final adjustments. I'm not even going to try and adjust the irons to meet with the dot. I'll probably over shoot a crap ton even with a sight pusher.
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Dot is zeroed to POA/POI at 25 yards (what’s available). I just zero’ed how one would nornally zero sights. Get it close and then shoot on paper and adjust. Same as Flapp.
I actually had to zero twice since I had to send the slide back to MFR. Initial go around, I just zeroed the dot because the rear sight was stuck. Luckily it was close upon initial installation. Second go around, I had already confirmed the irons, so I moved the dot to match POA for irons and confirmed on paper.
The musa store has red dot zero targets that you can print out also
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I've been on the fence about picking up a Glock 34 MOS thats been sitting at a LGS, but now with the VP9 long slide and optics ready coming soon I will wait. The reason I couldn't pull the trigger on the Glock is I like my HK more than my Glock. >:D ;) ??? ::) :crazy: :shake: Most of my handgun fun is 7 to 15 yards and been looking at RMR's. So, as long as you are sharing experiences . . . 3.25 or 6.5 MOA dot?
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I've been on the fence about picking up a Glock 34 MOS thats been sitting at a LGS, but now with the VP9 long slide and optics ready coming soon I will wait. The reason I couldn't pull the trigger on the Glock is I like my HK more than my Glock. >:D ;) ??? ::) :crazy: :shake: Most of my handgun fun is 7 to 15 yards and been looking at RMR's. So, as long as you are sharing experiences . . . 3.25 or 6.5 MOA dot?
The smaller the better imo.
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
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I've been on the fence about picking up a Glock 34 MOS thats been sitting at a LGS, but now with the VP9 long slide and optics ready coming soon I will wait. The reason I couldn't pull the trigger on the Glock is I like my HK more than my Glock. >:D ;) ??? ::) :crazy: :shake: Most of my handgun fun is 7 to 15 yards and been looking at RMR's. So, as long as you are sharing experiences . . . 3.25 or 6.5 MOA dot?
I have the 3.25 model and it’s seems easy to pick up in sunlight and also able to dial down for more precision when zeroing. You can try mine next shoot or range day.
The smaller the better imo.
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
Is that what she said? :P
Wait, never mind. I have the smaller model. :(
:shake:
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I've been on the fence about picking up a Glock 34 MOS thats been sitting at a LGS, but now with the VP9 long slide and optics ready coming soon I will wait. The reason I couldn't pull the trigger on the Glock is I like my HK more than my Glock. >:D ;) ??? ::) :crazy: :shake: Most of my handgun fun is 7 to 15 yards and been looking at RMR's. So, as long as you are sharing experiences . . . 3.25 or 6.5 MOA dot?
I go with the larger dot for SD/HD. If you can easily perform a "cranio-ocular" shot at stand-off distances (7-15 yds), then there's no need for a more precise (smaller) dot.
Dot acquisition is #1 objective. If you can't find the dot in 1/2 a second, the SIZE REALLY DOESN'T MATTER. :thumbsup:
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The musa store has red dot zero targets that you can print out also
Thanks. I just use regular shoot-n-see targets that I normally use at the bullseye range.
Just reread your original question. I zero with the dot centered in the window. It does generally coincide with the front sight when that is aligned (equal height and equal light), but I zero both independently. Not sure if that’s the “proper” way, but what I did.
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What I do is zero my groupings windage to the iron sight as perfect as I am able to to the middle of my front sight blade. Then I slave my red dots windage to the exact center of the front sight blade with equal height equal light and make very minute adjustments from there if needed (wide front sight blade is pretty challenging to group perfectly to the center of the blade, the red dots job is to refine that aiming plane to a smaller surface).
For elevation I choose 25 yards and adjust to that distance. And the pictures below is what I end up with for a 25 yards zero.
As you can see windage wise, my dot is ever so slightly to the right on the front blade with equal height for equal light for final adjustments. I'm not even going to try and adjust the irons to meet with the dot. I'll probably over shoot a crap ton even with a sight pusher.
Besides shooting groups for zero, do you normally shoot with that sight picture? Meaning with the dot sort of lollipopping on the front sight?
Last time I shot, I think my dot was ever so slightly off center from my front sight. I zeroed each separately, and on separate days (didn’t have sight tool with me when I zeroed the dot). While I noticed the offset, I assumed it was because I am able to get a more precise POA with the dot than the irons.
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Besides shooting groups for zero, do you normally shoot with that sight picture? Meaning with the dot sort of lollipopping on the front sight?
Last time I shot, I think my dot was ever so slightly off center from my front sight. I zeroed each separately, and on separate days (didn’t have sight tool with me when I zeroed the dot). While I noticed the offset, I assumed it was because I am able to get a more precise POA with the dot than the irons.
Where the dot is in that picture is the where my bullets impact at 25 yards, so yes that lollipop picture is the picture I use. Although, my front and rear sight are completely out of focus with shooting a red dot because it allows me to just concentrate on the target. I've shot with the dot on each corner of the window at 50 meters at KH Silouhette and was still hitting steel without the dot centered in the window.
When I shoot on my coworkers ranch at 7 to 15 yards my bullets will impact maybe about 2" lower on paper when covering a bullseye with the red dot. Makes sense because when I had standard height sights on that gun and no red dot, I would impact almost 4" high when attempting to cut the bullseye in half with the front sight at 25 yards.
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The smaller the better imo.
Red dot right?
I have the 3.25 model and it’s seems easy to pick up in sunlight and also able to dial down for more precision when zeroing. You can try mine next shoot or range day.
Did you try the 6.5 before you decided on the 3.25? Yes I would like to try yours on the next occasion.
I go with the larger dot for SD/HD. If you can easily perform a "cranio-ocular" shot at stand-off distances (7-15 yds), then there's no need for a more precise (smaller) dot.
Dot acquisition is #1 objective. If you can't find the dot in 1/2 a second, the SIZE REALLY DOESN'T MATTER. :thumbsup:
I was leaning towards the larger dot and "Dot acquisition is #1 objective" was my thought also. I get bored pretty quickly with target shooting except maybe some unfriendly ;D competition, but then I prefer a revolver.
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Red dot right?
Did you try the 6.5 before you decided on the 3.25? Yes I would like to try yours on the next occasion.
I was leaning towards the larger dot and "Dot acquisition is #1 objective" was my thought also. I get bored pretty quickly with target shooting except maybe some unfriendly ;D competition, but then I prefer a revolver.
I think the real problem is when the dot becomes blurry. If you wear reading glasses and use a red dot, that's very likely to occur.
That's more apt to happen if not wearing corrective lenses using a rifle where the scope is closer to your eye rather than using a pistol at arm's length.
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I think the real problem is when the dot becomes blurry. If you wear reading glasses and use a red dot, that's very likely to occur.
That's more apt to happen if not wearing corrective lenses using a rifle where the scope is closer to your eye rather than using a pistol at arm's length.
I know what you mean. There was a time I would use reading glasses to focus on my pistol front sight (target was a blurr) and I shot better than with non-corrective safety glasses. But when I transitioned to my rifle which has an Aimpoint PRO, the dot would be a blurr and accuracy would suffer. My optometrist made me safety glasses with very light overall magnification which transition to higher magnification on the lower part of the lens. They work great, my rifle dot is clear and I can focus on my pistol front sight. The target is also clear. When shooting rifle off the bench, the view through my scope is clear and I can read the turrets. I think I just lucked out with the combination or my optometrist, who does not shoot, got skills.
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I know what you mean. There was a time I would use reading glasses to focus on my pistol front sight (target was a blurr) and I shot better than with non-corrective safety glasses. But when I transitioned to my rifle which has an Aimpoint PRO, the dot would be a blurr and accuracy would suffer. My optometrist made me safety glasses with very light overall magnification which transition to higher magnification on the lower part of the lens. They work great, my rifle dot is clear and I can focus on my pistol front sight. The target is also clear. When shooting rifle off the bench, the view through my scope is clear and I can read the turrets. I think I just lucked out with the combination or my optometrist, who does not shoot, got skills.
I found these on Amazon. I've been doing some woodworking, and the constant putting on/taking off reading glasses to measure, set the tools, and mark material, then switching to safety glasses for actually operating the power tools, was getting old. I ordered the bifocals in my reading glasses strength, as well as the full goggles to fit on top of my reading glasses.
Both are extremely well made and do what I need. The goggles work great for sanding and any other task requiring extra eye protection.
For $11-$14, these safety glasses are hard to beat:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000646VFI/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
$10 Goggles:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01A12J3GI/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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Where the dot is in that picture is the where my bullets impact at 25 yards, so yes that lollipop picture is the picture I use. Although, my front and rear sight are completely out of focus with shooting a red dot because it allows me to just concentrate on the target. I've shot with the dot on each corner of the window at 50 meters at KH Silouhette and was still hitting steel without the dot centered in the window.
When I shoot on my coworkers ranch at 7 to 15 yards my bullets will impact maybe about 2" lower on paper when covering a bullseye with the red dot. Makes sense because when I had standard height sights on that gun and no red dot, I would impact almost 4" high when attempting to cut the bullseye in half with the front sight at 25 yards.
“Where the dot is in that picture is the where my bullets impact at 25 yards, so yes that lollipop picture is the picture I use.” I was more refering to that your sight picture was the lollipop dot in the front sight blade. I was always told/taught to try to keep the dot centered in the view window, be it for handgun or long gun. Yeah, under stress, you may not have time to do so, but one should train for that sight picture for reps and muscle memory. I just never considered the way you described.
I had assumed that quality dots all have parallax correction. So if you zeroed properly, the POI will coincide with your POA. Yeah, you will be closer if your sight picture when you break the shot is what it is when your zeroed. When shooting with the dot, I also don’t really see the irons. When zeroing, I’m shooting at a slow and deliberate pace and I might notice the irons, but not when shooting at less deliberate pace.
I’ll have a chance to shoot with the dot in a training environment soon, so will see.
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Was able to shoot some other red dots recently. One thing I noticed is that some dots are crisper than others, at least with my vision. I do have astigmatism, which is corrected with contacts. With rifle, I do notice that the Aimpoint 2 MOA dots tend to bloom, especially on higher settings. However, the EoTech reticle seems to be much clearer. I also noticed that the EoTech reticle is much sharper when viewing with my left eye, so maybe something to do with level of correction.
Anyways, I think it was the Leupold Deltapoint, but I recall the dot being a pretty crisp circle. It was a larger MOA dot. I want to say 7 MOA or larger. It was an older dot and not sure on the model. The current models appear to be a 2.5 MOA dot or a 7 MOA triangle. Anyways, side-by-side with my Trijicon RMR 3.25 MOA, the bloom of the RMR was noticable. I could actually get the RMR brighter in the sunlight, but the Deltapoint was certainly bright enough.
I also tried a gun with the Sig Romeo, but not sure which model.
Anyways, will see how the ZEV slide with Trijicon RMR does this weekend. Have been doing more dry fire and I am picking up the dot better, but again, will have to see how I do in live fire. That said, I am interested in trying out other brand dot options.
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I have a laser not a red dot, but regarding sighting in, I have my laser zero'd at 10 yards for defensive purposes and my iron sights zero'd at 25 yds.
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Was able to shoot some other red dots recently. One thing I noticed is that some dots are crisper than others, at least with my vision. I do have astigmatism, which is corrected with contacts. With rifle, I do notice that the Aimpoint 2 MOA dots tend to bloom, especially on higher settings. However, the EoTech reticle seems to be much clearer. I also noticed that the EoTech reticle is much sharper when viewing with my left eye, so maybe something to do with level of correction.
Anyways, I think it was the Leupold Deltapoint, but I recall the dot being a pretty crisp circle. It was a larger MOA dot. I want to say 7 MOA or larger. It was an older dot and not sure on the model. The current models appear to be a 2.5 MOA dot or a 7 MOA triangle. Anyways, side-by-side with my Trijicon RMR 3.25 MOA, the bloom of the RMR was noticable. I could actually get the RMR brighter in the sunlight, but the Deltapoint was certainly bright enough.
I also tried a gun with the Sig Romeo, but not sure which model.
Anyways, will see how the ZEV slide with Trijicon RMR does this weekend. Have been doing more dry fire and I am picking up the dot better, but again, will have to see how I do in live fire. That said, I am interested in trying out other brand dot options.
I'm using shield red dot. You're welcome to try them. G17, g19, and a vp9
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I'm using shield red dot. You're welcome to try them. G17, g19, and a vp9
Hmm. Never heard of that brand before. Seeing as you have them on a few guns, assume they’ve worked well for you. Post some pics and share your thoughts on them.
I’ve only seriously considered Trijicon and Leupold. Though I did consider Vortex and Sig as well.
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Hmm. Never heard of that brand before. Seeing as you have them on a few guns, assume they’ve worked well for you. Post some pics and share your thoughts on them.
I’ve only seriously considered Trijicon and Leupold. Though I did consider Vortex and Sig as well.
Yes you have. It's what I've had on my G19 for the last 2 years.
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Yes you have. It's what I've had on my G19 for the last 2 years.
Haha. Never noticed. And I’m sure I’d you use it, other have heard about it. Whether they wanted to or not. :P
I don’t think I’ve shot your “Roland special”. I thought about going to ATEI route, but went with ZEV. Might still get a 19 and go that route.
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“Where the dot is in that picture is the where my bullets impact at 25 yards, so yes that lollipop picture is the picture I use.” I was more refering to that your sight picture was the lollipop dot in the front sight blade. I was always told/taught to try to keep the dot centered in the view window, be it for handgun or long gun. Yeah, under stress, you may not have time to do so, but one should train for that sight picture for reps and muscle memory. I just never considered the way you described.
I had assumed that quality dots all have parallax correction. So if you zeroed properly, the POI will coincide with your POA. Yeah, you will be closer if your sight picture when you break the shot is what it is when your zeroed. When shooting with the dot, I also don’t really see the irons. When zeroing, I’m shooting at a slow and deliberate pace and I might notice the irons, but not when shooting at less deliberate pace.
I’ll have a chance to shoot with the dot in a training environment soon, so will see.
Honestly my rear sight, front sight, and even the window that the red dot appears on are completely out of my focus when shooting with a red dot. My complete concentration is on the target and a red dot magically hovering over it.
Both eyes merge the target into one picture and my strong eye also presents me the red dot, which is completely visible although my plane of focus is not on it.
Trijicon claims parallax free up to 50 meters. Seems true to me since my dot is not always centered in the window because that is not what my focus is on. When shooting, as long as I see a red dot on the target regardless how off center it is in the window, not that I can tell and don't worry about, I squeeze a shot off.
That lollipop picture is only when I'm attempting to zero my red dot to my iron sights before I go to the range for final adjustments.
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Vp9, g17, and g19mos. I need to put the dot back on the g19.
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Vp9, g17, and g19mos. I need to put the dot back on the g19.
Nice! I like the look of that VP9 with the comp. Very John Wick! :thumbsup:
Saw the 19 Gen 5 MOS/FS available at HGS. Very tempting!
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Been doing a lot more dry fire/practice the past couple of weeks and I'm picking up the dot a lot better on the draw. I think I had developed a habit of having the front sight ever so slightly above the rear sight on the draw, just before full extension, in an effort to pick up the front sight quickly. While I was able to pick up the front sight quickly in that way, that position was high enough that sometimes the dot was not visible in the window and I'd have to ever so slightly tilt the gun forward to pick up the dot. Overall, I think the reps with the dot will help with irons. Will have to try timed drills one of these days.
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Shot my Glock 17 with RMR in a handgun course this past weekend. Posted some highlights in my thread on training experiences. Overwall, it was a good day learning about shooting with the RMR. Definitely see the positives, but there is a definite learning curve, at least for me. Will definitely give this set up more time. I see red dot use growing more and more with handguns, much like how red dots for carbines are pretty much standard nowadays.
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Shot my Glock 17 with RMR in a handgun course this past weekend. Posted some highlights in my thread on training experiences. Overwall, it was a good day learning about shooting with the RMR. Definitely see the positives, but there is a definite learning curve, at least for me. Will definitely give this set up more time. I see red dot use growing more and more with handguns, much like how red dots for carbines are pretty much standard nowadays.
The standard for carbines is quickly becoming LVO's. Right when we get used to red dots they come and take more of our money.
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The standard for carbines is quickly becoming LVO's. Right when we get used to red dots they come and take more of our money.
Haha. Funny you mention that. I was browsing LVOs last night. Been long wanting 1-6 or 1-8 for a carbine. I have a “spare” barrel and a Geissele rail that is needing an upper receiver to compete.
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I might also try different draw techniques. I had been trying to pick up the dot as early in the draw as I could, so sort of ended up trying to get the gun level and picking up the dot before full extension. Maybe as early as half way out.
I was reading and saw video of a more diagonal path with a short vertical “pop up” at the end to pick up the dot. One of the instructors in the class this past weekend mentioned trying that method and it worked for them.
I had been trying to concentrate on the draw methods all day. In the later portion of the class, one instructor asked if I had changed my draw. I had consciously changed because of the dot and apparently it was way different from before. As mentioned in my training thread, I have taken a bunch of classes with this group and I was amazed that he noticed the difference. I had sort of been fighting it most of day and it showed. Need more practice.
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Picking up the dot consistently from the draw is a whole different skill set I had to learn. My God it was frustrating at first. After thousands of reps (feels like) I've figured out that I need to naturally have my handgun lower on presentation to have the dot centered in the window compared to irons. I've become adequate at it for now. I'm striving for 99.9% dot acquisition from the draw. Great dry firing aid also. I thought I had a steady trigger pull with irons, a 3.25 moa red dot will let me know real quick I needed more practice pulling perfectly straight and to the rear.
The thing I love about red dots is once you've acquired it and learned to track it, target to target transitions are blistering fast. It'll be awhile before it catches on or even accepted, but one focal plane shooting with a handgun really is the cats pajamas lol.
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The thing I love about red dots is once you've acquired it and learned to track it, target to target transitions are blistering fast. It'll be awhile before it catches on or even accepted, but one focal plane shooting with a handgun really is the cats pajamas lol.
If you think a red dot is fast, try a laser. You will be firing as soon as you clear the holster at distances of 3 to 7 yards. No need to acquire the sights. Watch the target, if the dot is where you want it, press the trigger.
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Picking up the dot consistently from the draw is a whole different skill set I had to learn. My God it was frustrating at first. After thousands of reps (feels like) I've figured out that I need to naturally have my handgun lower on presentation to have the dot centered in the window compared to irons. I've become adequate at it for now. I'm striving for 99.9% dot acquisition from the draw. Great dry firing aid also. I thought I had a steady trigger pull with irons, a 3.25 moa red dot will let me know real quick I needed more practice pulling perfectly straight and to the rear.
The thing I love about red dots is once you've acquired it and learned to track it, target to target transitions are blistering fast. It'll be awhile before it catches on or even accepted, but one focal plane shooting with a handgun really is the cats pajamas lol.
I had spent some time with dry practice before the class and I was getting it down. But I also noticed during class, when under more stress or concentrating on other things, the draw suffered. I knew it was something that would take time to adjust to, but also good to know in different context. At least more than the Koko Head 25 yard range. One of the instructors gave me a tip that seemed to help, which was to have the support hand "preset". I had been trying to set things with my gun hand and while that was ok, the "preset" with the support hand seemed to be more consistent.
After doing a bunch of draws dry and live fire, I can understand what you mean about the gun height on presentation compared to irons. Not good or bad, just different.
Yeah, the "dot dance" was noticeable for me. Something that I noticed first when dry firing. I was amazed at how much the dot moves around, even as close as 7 yards.
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https://youtu.be/tpkb0Lyr9RM
I’d like to try this one of these days. Good discussion at the end in any case. Personally, I like to try things out and see for myself. As a very wise instructor said many times, “trust but verify”.
I don’t agree with all of his videos, but he does seems to approach them in a logical manner to see for himself.
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That vp9 looks badass
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I will agree that slaving the red dot to your irons and leaving as is is wrong for a "zero." I would compare it to bore sighting a rifle. Gets you on paper so adjustments can be made easily.
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I will agree that slaving the red dot to your irons and leaving as is is wrong for a "zero." I would compare it to bore sighting a rifle. Gets you on paper so adjustments can be made easily.
I can see using the “bisecting the dot” method to get close prior to initial zero. I did come across many who shoot that way as well.
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If you leave a red dot sight turned on, how long would the battery last? Several months or several days?
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If you leave a red dot sight turned on, how long would the battery last? Several months or several days?
The Trij RMR Type 2 is rated for 4 years of continuous on at 4 setting (out of 8). But I’ve read that most batteries much less if left in 8. Seems like most common recommendation is to change the battery once a year. The Type 2 has an “auto” function that dims the dot to save battery, but I haven’t tested out that feature yet.
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I have a Burris Fast Fire on AR15 and I always turned it off because I shoot it only once or twice a year. It uses a CR1632 battery which I just changed today. I pulled out the AR and the 4 year old battery was dead, even though I always turned off the sight. In the 4 years I don't think I have even 4 hours on that battery. I almost exclusively shoot handguns.
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I have a Burris Fast Fire on AR15 and I always turned it off because I shoot it only once or twice a year. It uses a CR1632 battery which I just changed today. I pulled out the AR and the 4 year old battery was dead, even though I always turned off the sight. In the 4 years I don't think I have even 4 hours on that battery. I almost exclusively shoot handguns.
I change my RMR batteries every year. Just to be safe. What I've been doing is once I have my red dot zeroed. I use my bore laser and record where my red dot should be when the laser is pointed at the X-Ring of a sticky target about 10ft away on a wall. I do it at home with my pistol in a vice. It's been spot on every time. Just gotta make sure when you measure on the target you're using the smallest increments you can. I use my 6" calipers.
EDIT: I still confirm zero at the range cause I'm OCD. But if I can't make it right after I change batteries. It's much better than slaving the dot to zeroed iron sights.
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https://youtu.be/vtT4dd392wI
https://youtu.be/AyjA_DPWrGE
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Tried my friends MRD and it was fun. Huge diff. 5 yards rapid fire. With red dot, grouping was duck egg. With iron sights, grouping is jabone.
Target acqusition was a huge improvement.
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Tried my friends MRD and it was fun. Huge diff. 5 yards rapid fire. With red dot, grouping was duck egg. With iron sights, grouping is jabone.
Target acqusition was a huge improvement.
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Hard to go back when you can start shooting the 100 meter human size rectangular targets on the silouhette side with "boring regularity." I was even able to hit that stupid chicken twice in one magazine with the other shots not being too far off if I do my part.
Oh and those tiny 22lr targets at 50 meters. I try to beat everyone to them right after a reset lol. I need to play nicer for the kids.
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Had a short training session with handguns this past weekend, so used that time to put work in with the 17 with RMR.
Context of the training session was fundamentals for a wider range of shooters. So started off with some one-hole drill type stuff starting at 5 yards and then moved back. First time doing that with the 17/RMR wasn't that impressive, but was able to shoot out pretty much all of the 1" square after 10 shots at 5 yards. The "dot dance" was still noticeable, but not as bad previous sessions. Or maybe I either didn't notice or didn't bother me.
Next drill that I noticed much improvement was when we moved to the cadence drills. 6 in 6 seconds, then 6 in 3 seconds, then 6 in two seconds. Tracking and picking up the dot in successive shots was something that frustrated me previous sessions, but I think the cadence drills really helped me as when we got to the 6/2 string, I was able to keep all shots in the 6" circle and pace was almost spot on (1.97s). I would have liked to have spent a little more time to see what I could get the time down to before throwing shots out, but there were a couple of newer shooters that we were helping. When I was shooting a lot, I could get down to about 1.6-1-7 with standard/iron sights, so I would like to see if I can get close or match with the RMR.
There was another shooter who was shooting his 22 with RMR for the first time. He's a really good shooter with standard sights, so it was interesting hearing his initial feedback along the way, which was pretty close to mine first time I shot the 17/RMR in a session "beyond" the 25 yard bullseye range. There definitely is a learning curve and it can be helped along by getting feedback from those who have gone down that path before. While I consider myself still on the beginning section of that path, it was really helpful to see those both ahead of the game than I am as well as those who are just starting down that path.
Overall, I am happy with the 17/RMR enough that I am considering setting up a 19 with an RMR as well.
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Here’s a good video from Sage Dynamic on RDS and improving performance with iron sights.
https://youtu.be/ciN4J1BJFFM
I haven’t had a chance to shoot my handgun with RDS in a while, but I did notice a lot of what he describes. I also found that dry fire with RDS showed more than I would notice dry firing with irons.
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Had an open shoot session followed by a short training session with a new Glock 19 based setup with RMR this past weekend. I also spent a while on the pistol range end of last week testing the new gun as well as zeroing the RMR and checking the suppressor sights. This is my second handgun with a red dot, so I've invested quite a bit.
Starting to see a LOT more folks on the range with red dots on handguns. Both experienced shooters as well as newer shooters. Even spoke with a seasoned instructor that helps a LOT of folks new to guns in general and he mentioned many of this students ask about handguns with red dots. My original thoughts remain generally the same that there is a definite learning curve and seems like maybe 50/50 as to whether or not folks stick with it or write it off as "not for them". I'm in the former.
For the training session, two other shooting buddies were shooting handguns with red dots. One has had his for a while and the other was his first session with one. Same trend as noted above as one seemed to love it and the other is strongly debating whether or not to stick with it. Both see the benefits, but it varies how quickly folks pick it up as well as having an open mind to try and make the adjustments needed. One also mentioned he tried the "slave the dot to the front sight" method and it works for me.
For me, this second setup is slightly different in that it's on more of a "Gucci Glock" as well as taller iron sights than my 17 based setup. I like the lower height of the iron sights on my 17 setup, but will give this one a go for now. I didn't notice the taller sights during the shooting drills.
For the shooting drills, I definitely need to work on the draw. Both speed, making sure I don't give up a quality grip when I push it, and most importantly, picking up the dot quicker and consistently. Had a conversation about differences in past experience picking up front sight on handguns and transition to red dots. I had also been shooting my CZ a lot lately and doing a lot of dry fire and draws, so I think the difference in grip angles between the two led to some adjustment.
Picking up the dot in between shots was better during this training session. As the sun was lower in the sky later in the day, two shooters with RDS handguns noticed that the glare caused some difficulty picking up the dot. I didn't really notice.
Overall, going to be dedicating a lot more time to this setup. The hope is that this will become my CCW setup. Got about 500 rounds of mixed range fodder (mostly 115 and 124 gr bulk FMJ ammo) and some Gold Dots.
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I’m still on the fence if I want to have a red dot on my CCW and/or SD gun.
I don’t have a good repeatable index so it takes a lot for me to get back on sight after recoil. And for me, I tend to pick up the front sight quicker than I do a red dot after recoil because of my lack of a good repeatable index. This is probably due to a lack of proper training. Which I intend to to get after I move. I have trained all my life for target shooting near and far targets. I have more recently trained for shooting DA pistol since SA is more for target shooting. But still, I watch videos of guys who have a good strong repeatable index and they can get back on target so quickly my head spins just watching them. As bad as my eyes are a red dot makes more sense. But like I said I find myself picking up the front sight a little quicker than a red dot. It seems like it takes less effort for me get back on target with standard irons. For accuracy or distance shots a red dot can’t be beat. But whatever sight system you choose it needs to be flexible enough for most or all situations.
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Wonder what it would be like if we had chameleon vision. :P
Dunno, maybe see if this guy ever shot much pistol?
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/2/Open/Getty_Images_406/Misc/_3by4/GettyImages-3309438.jpg)
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i'm having a little problem with reacquiring the red dot after each shot, darn muzzle flip. MRO works a little better, but weighs more.
(https://i.imgur.com/TN7E9mZ.jpg)
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i'm having a little problem with reacquiring the red dot after each shot, darn muzzle flip. MRO works a little better, but weighs more.
(https://i.imgur.com/TN7E9mZ.jpg)
I’ve shot that gun in 44 Mag and 50. Never with a red dot, tho. If I had shot one with a red dot, I might have been able to hit something with it! :rofl:
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Im a fan of red dots. The pick up was way faster. At 7 yards, rapid fire grouping without was about basketball. With RD, it was jabone.
Im just to pake to buy a RD, mill slide, new holster, new irons.
Are red dots on pistols becoming the same as red dots on rifles? No one really uses irons on rifles anymore.
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Im a fan of red dots. The pick up was way faster. At 7 yards, rapid fire grouping without was about basketball. With RD, it was jabone.
Im just to pake to buy a RD, mill slide, new holster, new irons.
Are red dots on pistols becoming the same as red dots on rifles? No one really uses irons on rifles anymore.
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I've seen many CCW with red dots. Any advantage in a gun fight is a bonus.
Maybe we'll all be safer once police departments start issuing them. They can really stand to improve that ~30% hit ratio. :shake:
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I’m still on the fence if I want to have a red dot on my CCW and/or SD gun.
I don’t have a good repeatable index so it takes a lot for me to get back on sight after recoil. And for me, I tend to pick up the front sight quicker than I do a red dot after recoil because of my lack of a good repeatable index. This is probably due to a lack of proper training. Which I intend to to get after I move. I have trained all my life for target shooting near and far targets. I have more recently trained for shooting DA pistol since SA is more for target shooting. But still, I watch videos of guys who have a good strong repeatable index and they can get back on target so quickly my head spins just watching them. As bad as my eyes are a red dot makes more sense. But like I said I find myself picking up the front sight a little quicker than a red dot. It seems like it takes less effort for me get back on target with standard irons. For accuracy or distance shots a red dot can’t be beat. But whatever sight system you choose it needs to be flexible enough for most or all situations.
Didn't you try mine at the silhouette range a while back?
I shoot my 17 and 34 pretty flat already. I'll show you a video of some of my matches when we finally meet up for that happy hour beer. When I first started with the red dot, I was concerned about how quickly I'd pick up the dot in the draw and between shots. When I was shooting with the red dot more, I was getting to the point where there were similar times. I think I'm slower now since I've been shooting mostly irons lately. I found the cadence drills really helped. I was chatting with a shooting instructor when he was in the starting part of his learning curve with handgun/RDS combo and he had just gotten to the point where his shot times were equalizing. His tips on the draw really helped me. I just gotta get back to practicing consistently.
The bad or aging eyes aspect was one that we were discussing this weekend. Two of the shooters are about the same age as I am. When I was at the pistol range, a father and son pair was shooting next to me and the father was going on about how he was having trouble focusing on the front sight with his bifocals. I had him try my handgun with red dot and that really helped him. So there are some "life practical" applications for sure.
Forgot to add that the "dot dance" that people tend to notice when they first start out is something one of my shooting friends just can't seem to get over. He can blow out a pastey at 5-7 yard pretty consistently in less than 5 shots with standard sights, but the dot dance messes him up pretty bad trying the same with red dot. I definitely noticed the dot dance, but something that I have mostly gotten over.
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Dunno, maybe see if this guy ever shot much pistol?
SNIP
Improved peripheral vision!
:rofl:i'm having a little problem with reacquiring the red dot after each shot, darn muzzle flip. MRO works a little better, but weighs more.
SNIP
How long did "your" red dot last on that setup? ;D
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I’ve shot that gun in 44 Mag and 50. Never with a red dot, tho. If I had shot one with a red dot, I might have been able to hit something with it! :rofl:
I've shot both as well. First time was in one of those gun clubs in Waikiki. I think my molars are still loose from that experience. ;D
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Didn't you try mine at the silhouette range a while back?
I shoot my 17 and 34 pretty flat already. I'll show you a video of some of my matches when we finally meet up for that happy hour beer. When I first started with the red dot, I was concerned about how quickly I'd pick up the dot in the draw and between shots. When I was shooting with the red dot more, I was getting to the point where there were similar times. I think I'm slower now since I've been shooting mostly irons lately. I found the cadence drills really helped. I was chatting with a shooting instructor when he was in the starting part of his learning curve with handgun/RDS combo and he had just gotten to the point where his shot times were equalizing. His tips on the draw really helped me. I just gotta get back to practicing consistently.
The bad or aging eyes aspect was one that we were discussing this weekend. Two of the shooters are about the same age as I am. When I was at the pistol range, a father and son pair was shooting next to me and the father was going on about how he was having trouble focusing on the front sight with his bifocals. I had him try my handgun with red dot and that really helped him. So there are some "life practical" applications for sure.
Forgot to add that the "dot dance" that people tend to notice when they first start out is something one of my shooting friends just can't seem to get over. He can blow out a pastey at 5-7 yard pretty consistently in less than 5 shots with standard sights, but the dot dance messes him up pretty bad trying the same with red dot. I definitely noticed the dot dance, but something that I have mostly gotten over.
it's like you have "Bob Vogel recoil control"
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I've shot both as well. First time was in one of those gun clubs in Waikiki. I think my molars are still loose from that experience. ;D
maybe you should have a dentist look at that...
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1) Im a fan of red dots. The pick up was way faster. At 7 yards, rapid fire grouping without was about basketball. With RD, it was jabone.
2) Im just to pake to buy a RD, mill slide, new holster, new irons.
3) Are red dots on pistols becoming the same as red dots on rifles? No one really uses irons on rifles anymore.
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1) Basketball? You mean one of those pop-a-shot sized ones? ???
2) Glock MOS and CZ P10c optic ready models are pretty "nicely" priced. Yeah, the cost of the dot was a major hurdle for me, but there are budget friendly options, but take your chances on durability.
3) I would say trend is similar to rifles in that it gained popularity in competition first and then wider to include LE/Mil. And the latter, not true at all.
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I've seen many CCW with red dots. Any advantage in a gun fight is a bonus.
Maybe we'll all be safer once police departments start issuing them. They can really stand to improve that ~30% hit ratio. :shake:
While the goal is for this setup to be my primary CCW, I have one without the RMR as well. Just been focused on the one with the "new" tech. ;D And so far at a 3:1 round count ratio.
A buddy in a Houston PD issues Glock MOS to their officers if they qualify with them and of course they want the RMR. That said, his dept is allowed to carry a very wide range of sidearms as long as they buy their own and they qualify with it.
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it's like you have "Bob Vogel recoil control"
Must be the "poof poof" ammo ;D
maybe you should have a dentist look at that...
My insurance only covers "real" MDs. :rofl:
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Must be the "poof poof" ammo ;D
My insurance only covers "real" MDs. :rofl:
heads
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Improved peripheral vision!
:rofl:How long did "your" red dot last on that setup? ;D
actually, since the red dot is mounted on the barrel, which is fixed, and only the slide recoils (with the bolt), sofar, so good. it's "only" the 44 Magnum, with the integral brake, actually pretty pleasant. Although, tbh, I think I'm still under 500 rds. now, the 50, that's painfully wicked.
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maybe you should have a dentist look at that...
Know any good ones?
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Know any good ones?
Can’t think of any... can you?
:rofl:
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Didn't you try mine at the silhouette range a while back?
I shoot my 17 and 34 pretty flat already. I'll show you a video of some of my matches when we finally meet up for that happy hour beer. When I first started with the red dot, I was concerned about how quickly I'd pick up the dot in the draw and between shots. When I was shooting with the red dot more, I was getting to the point where there were similar times. I think I'm slower now since I've been shooting mostly irons lately. I found the cadence drills really helped. I was chatting with a shooting instructor when he was in the starting part of his learning curve with handgun/RDS combo and he had just gotten to the point where his shot times were equalizing. His tips on the draw really helped me. I just gotta get back to practicing consistently.
The bad or aging eyes aspect was one that we were discussing this weekend. Two of the shooters are about the same age as I am. When I was at the pistol range, a father and son pair was shooting next to me and the father was going on about how he was having trouble focusing on the front sight with his bifocals. I had him try my handgun with red dot and that really helped him. So there are some "life practical" applications for sure.
Forgot to add that the "dot dance" that people tend to notice when they first start out is something one of my shooting friends just can't seem to get over. He can blow out a pastey at 5-7 yard pretty consistently in less than 5 shots with standard sights, but the dot dance messes him up pretty bad trying the same with red dot. I definitely noticed the dot dance, but something that I have mostly gotten over.
No I didn’t try yours. I should have as I like my 17 and shoot it pretty well even tho I have been concentrating on my revolver a lot more lately.
I love red dots on my revolvers. I shoot them very well. I still am resisting having an RMR as a SD sight system. I think I need to have some time with one so I can see how I feel with one in hand. Old habits die hard. But I think the RMR’s make a lot of sense on Semi autos as a carry gun. Also, I think the compact and sub-compact autos with RMR’s and 10+ rounds of 9mm are becoming attractive to me as a carry gun. We’ll see as my eyes progressively get worse.
First I have to have more training.
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I've shot both as well. First time was in one of those gun clubs in Waikiki. I think my molars are still loose from that experience. ;D
I think I prefer the 44 Mag in a revolver. I shoot my friend’s Model 29 really well. I’m not sure why I have a problem with the Eagle? It might be the grip. It didn’t really feel that great in my hand.
I was on the line at the SSF at the moment that it was decided to only allow one shot to be put in the Eagle at a time. That second shot was going off uncontrolled.
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Know any good ones?
nope, sorry
the only one I know needs "more amps"
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No I didn’t try yours. I should have as I like my 17 and shoot it pretty well even tho I have been concentrating on my revolver a lot more lately.
I love red dots on my revolvers. I shoot them very well. I still am resisting having an RMR as a SD sight system. I think I need to have some time with one so I can see how I feel with one in hand. Old habits die hard. But I think the RMR’s make a lot of sense on Semi autos as a carry gun. Also, I think the compact and sub-compact autos with RMR’s and 10+ rounds of 9mm are becoming attractive to me as a carry gun. We’ll see as my eyes progressively get worse.
First I have to have more training.
I agree, especially as I've noticed my eye sight changing more recently. If you have time before you leave for AZ, I'd be happy to have you shoot my 17 and 19 with RDS. :shaka:
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Good session on the pistol range today. Was mostly to verify zero on the irons on my 19 after I noticed the front sight was loose, as well as get some practice with my 34. Also spent some time shooting with my 17 and 19 with RDS. I noticed that the brightness levels seemed lower somehow, even at the highest setting. It was overcast today and found that I had the RMR at the highest setting on both guns. Before today, I think I had the on two below the max brightness setting. I had been doing a bunch more dry fire indoors lately, but I also shot the 19 with RMR this past weekend in the action bays and I don't think the dot was on the highest setting. Not a big deal either way, just something I noticed.
Another thing I noticed is that I found myself creeping into older shooting habits, namely with my head craned more forward and eyes in a "looking up" position. When I adjusted to what I should have been doing, with a more neutral head position where my eyes are also neutral, I found that helped both picking up the dot in between shots as well as my groups tightened up.
Once again seeing more guns with RDS at the range.
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I agree, especially as I've noticed my eye sight changing more recently. If you have time before you leave for AZ, I'd be happy to have you shoot my 17 and 19 with RDS. :shaka:
Thank you for the invite. You may regret making the offer as I will try and take you up on it!!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Can you co-witness your iron sights thru the RDS if the battery dies? I saw the new Hellcat and between the low cut in the slide and the slightly higher irons co-witnessing was a snap. That is something I want if I go to an RDS on a carry gun.
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Thank you for the invite. You may regret making the offer as I will try and take you up on it!!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Can you co-witness your iron sights thru the RDS if the battery dies? I saw the new Hellcat and between the low cut in the slide and the slightly higher irons co-witnessing was a snap. That is something I want if I go to an RDS on a carry gun.
Well, you have my number. And we still need to get that happy hour beer. 🤔
Regarding backup sights, most go with suppressor height sights with RDS, say the 0.35”-0.4” range for Glocks. I have one set of Trijicon and another set of ZEV. I also think various OEM slide models (Glock MOS) and aftermarket slides (ZEV, Agency, ATEI, et ) have slightly varying depth of cuts, but seems like all go along well suppressor height sights. The sights on my ZEV slide has the iron sights slightly lower in the window than the 19.
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Shot the 17 with ZEV RDS slide this past weekend in a wet and rainy training day. I had been doing more dry practice lately with the RDS handguns and wanted to see how I've improved (or not :( ) in speed picking up the dot and tracking the dot better in multiple shots. Overall was happy with both, but also noticed that a couple other aspects "needed work".
Regarding picking up the dot quicker on the draw, I have been doing a bunch more dry practice working on both speeding up the draw and picking up the dot and breaking a shot. There were some drills that we shot that were perfect for that. Good news is that I was picking up the dot quicker, but bad was that in review of the video after, I was slowing the draw in the last 4-6" before extension. I think recent issues in picking up the dot on the draw had been because I had been doing a lot of shooting with my CZ75 lately, which has a distinctly different grip angle as Glock. Not an excuse, but more observation. Doing more dry fire with the 17 and 19 with RDS lately has helped. Then regarding draw speed, was concentrating on firming up my grip and "vice action" for shooting flatter. Upon review of video on my draw, I was slowing down the gun maybe 4-6" before extension. Something I noticed as "not smooth" and an instructor friend picked up on as well. Since the strings of fire when I was taking the video was draw and shoot multiple, I believe I was initiating the grip pressure and vice action before full extension and the muscle tension slowed things down. I did more dry practice another day and noticed that if I started the pressure early, it definitely slowed things down. Something that I'll have to work on.
Regarding tracking the dot better in multiple shots, I was trying a tip to keep the dot in the lower portion of the RDS window. That that would allow a little more forgiveness in the dot leaving the top of the window. I can shoot the 17 pretty flat as is, but there are times that I do notice the dot disappear and reappear from the 12 o'clock. That's particularly when doing multiple target transitions. My habit is to center the dot in the window, like with rifle RDS. The iron sights on my 17 slide is quite low in the window, so that was easier. However, the iron sights on my 19 slide is much higher, so having the dot in say the lower 1/3 of the window puts the dot on the front sight blade. I noticed this when dry firing and I wondered if it would bother me. However, just like shooting rifle with RDS co-witnessed, I didn't seem to notice when shooting both eyes open. Yeah, I did notice the dot being on the front sight here and there, but generally mostly saw the dot on the target.
While I did notice some improvement on speeding up the draw and picking up the dot, when we started doing multiple targets, I noticed that I started missing some shots on target #1. In strings of fire with 2 hits per target, I think I was getting too quick on the transition to target #2. On missing the first shot on target #1, I think I was either getting ahead of myself (not good grip on draw, yanking trigger, etc) or pushing things a bit too far and beyond my capabilities and ending up with a fast miss. There was a competitive aspect to these drills, so while that made it fun, it led to many trying to push things to win and having fast misses.
It was rainy pretty much all day and that always makes things interesting when shooting. Didn't notice it much with regard to the RDS with water on the window. There were definitely times when there were water droplets all over the inside and outside surfaces of the window and at times it would partially distort the view, but didn't really bother me. I know in the past with shooting my LPVO in the rain I would notice that the droplets distorted things a bit, but not really with the handgun RDS.
Shooting one handed is one aspect where the RDS really helped. Though for some reason it took slightly more time to pick up the dot shooting lefty at first, but that became smoother with some practice.
Fun day on the range with the RDS handgun. Now I'm considering (not that seriously) another handgun with RDS.
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Is there a reason why when using a red dot on a handgun compared to a rifle, it takes longer to pick up? Are they designed differently and since the RDS on a handgun is much smaller, the tech isn't as forgiving as a RDS on a rifle?
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Is there a reason why when using a red dot on a handgun compared to a rifle, it takes longer to pick up? Are they designed differently and since the RDS on a handgun is much smaller, the tech isn't as forgiving as a RDS on a rifle?
A rifle's red dot is closer to your eye, so there's less space the dot can travel around before you pick it up. Having a pistol arms length from the eye creates a larger "cone" of space for the dot to travel inside.
If you could always keep the pistol in the same eye-level plane and in the same left-to-right direction from the eye each time you bring the pistol up, there would be no difference. Having a stock against your cheek and the rifle barrel parallel to the ground puts the sight in the same relative position from your eye each time.
I don't see this as a "type of sight" issue as much as a "rifles are easier to align/acquire the sights than pistols" issue. It's one reason new shooters do much better on a rifle than a pistol for the most part. Trying to align sights at arm's length vs. aligning them closer to the body makes it much harder to acquire AND keep on target when squeezing the trigger.
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Is there a reason why when using a red dot on a handgun compared to a rifle, it takes longer to pick up? Are they designed differently and since the RDS on a handgun is much smaller, the tech isn't as forgiving as a RDS on a rifle?
FJ gave you a pretty good response, but I'll add some of my perspective and experience.
The type of sight or technology isn't a big difference. I've shot with the same red dots typically used on handguns on rifles (RMR, SRO, Deltapoint, etc) and they work great. I've seen Aimpoint micros on handgun slides, but not common. Assuming shooting both eyes open on rifle, RMR/SRO/Deltapoint/etc would be just fine on any of my rifles.
Differences between rifle and handgun:
1) Points of contact. You have more with a rifle and that greatly helps with consistency in the level and alignment of the axis of the gun. Think how much more play you have with a handgun, particularly pivoting laterally in your hands, than with a rifle. You also have the "anchor point" with the buttstock in your shoulder.
2) Reciprocating slide with handgun. The red dot is moving along with the handgun's slide (assuming mount directly to the slide). Combine that with muzzle flip, there's more going on with the red dot on the handgun. Whereas the dot stays put, at least relative to the bore axis, with the rifle.
3) One could argue that picking up the dot is no different than picking up the front sight. That said, I know many very experienced and awesome shooters that have shot times slower with a RDS than iron sights. Is it a matter of more dry practice? More training? Etc? Yeah. I also think part of it is openness to something new and sticking with it. I have at least a couple of friends who are pretty good shooters with iron sights seem to have a closed mind when it comes to RDS on handguns. While I can shoot my 17 pretty flat, I did notice that I was often waiting to reacquire the dot on subsequent shots and I "felt" that that was longer than with irons, but I never compared with a shot timer. I think part of my mind expects the dot to be as stable as when I shoot a rifle, which as mentioned above just isn't the case. No matter how good one is on recoil control.
4) If I shot "poof poof" ammo like some here, I think picking up the dot in multiple shots would be easier, but that's another story. :rofl:
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3) One could argue that picking up the dot is no different than picking up the front sight. That said, I know many very experienced and awesome shooters that have shot times slower with a RDS than iron sights. Is it a matter of more dry practice? More training? Etc? Yeah. I also think part of it is openness to something new and sticking with it. I have at least a couple of friends who are pretty good shooters with iron sights seem to have a closed mind when it comes to RDS on handguns. While I can shoot my 17 pretty flat, I did notice that I was often waiting to reacquire the dot on subsequent shots and I "felt" that that was longer than with irons, but I never compared with a shot timer. I think part of my mind expects the dot to be as stable as when I shoot a rifle, which as mentioned above just isn't the case. No matter how good one is on recoil control.
For me picking up the red dot is way faster and easier. At 7yards, rapid fire. Grouping with irons was about a jabone. RDS was grapefruit. Same gun and 1 after the other, seconds apart.
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For me picking up the red dot is way faster and easier. At 7yards, rapid fire. Grouping with irons was about a jabone. RDS was grapefruit. Same gun and 1 after the other, seconds apart.
You should try shooting one carry optics division 🤔
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FJ gave you a pretty good response, but I'll add some of my perspective and experience.
The type of sight or technology isn't a big difference. I've shot with the same red dots typically used on handguns on rifles (RMR, SRO, Deltapoint, etc) and they work great. I've seen Aimpoint micros on handgun slides, but not common. Assuming shooting both eyes open on rifle, RMR/SRO/Deltapoint/etc would be just fine on any of my rifles.
Differences between rifle and handgun:
1) Points of contact. You have more with a rifle and that greatly helps with consistency in the level and alignment of the axis of the gun. Think how much more play you have with a handgun, particularly pivoting laterally in your hands, than with a rifle. You also have the "anchor point" with the buttstock in your shoulder.
2) Reciprocating slide with handgun. The red dot is moving along with the handgun's slide (assuming mount directly to the slide). Combine that with muzzle flip, there's more going on with the red dot on the handgun. Whereas the dot stays put, at least relative to the bore axis, with the rifle.
3) One could argue that picking up the dot is no different than picking up the front sight. That said, I know many very experienced and awesome shooters that have shot times slower with a RDS than iron sights. Is it a matter of more dry practice? More training? Etc? Yeah. I also think part of it is openness to something new and sticking with it. I have at least a couple of friends who are pretty good shooters with iron sights seem to have a closed mind when it comes to RDS on handguns. While I can shoot my 17 pretty flat, I did notice that I was often waiting to reacquire the dot on subsequent shots and I "felt" that that was longer than with irons, but I never compared with a shot timer. I think part of my mind expects the dot to be as stable as when I shoot a rifle, which as mentioned above just isn't the case. No matter how good one is on recoil control.
4) If I shot "poof poof" ammo like some here, I think picking up the dot in multiple shots would be easier, but that's another story. :rofl:
those poofy guys are irritating...
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those poofy guys are irritating...
#notimpressedbypoofpoof
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#notimpressedbypoofpoof
#takesalottoimpressyou
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Holster fit and compatibility is another aspect of RDS handguns that I've learned lessons on recently.
There are a wide variation in RDS mounting location (forward/back) and height, in addition to RDS profile itself. Some holsters are more tolerant with this variation, some are hit or miss, and others are just non-compatible.
I have a few holsters that fit my 19RDS no problems. I wanted holsters with retention and my preference is Safariland ALS. The hit or miss aspect of the Safariland RDS holsters is pretty well documented in various forums, but I experienced it personally. I have on 6354DO with light and another without light. The holster with the light fit perfect out of the box. The one without the light however needed a lot of work with a dremel. Had to dremel the ALS as well as a portion of the holster body. Dremel on the holster body was easy, but dremel on the ALS was a PITA since the ALS takes some effort to remove if you haven't done it before. Took a while for myself and a buddy to get the holster to fit, but it was during a BBQ, so was relaxing. ;D
I've tried the same holster models that other folks had and my gun fit just find and they didn't have to do any mods. Another friend has a 22/RDS/APL combo and his fit fine in a series that reportedly typically needed mods with the RDS.
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Picking up iron sights is a skill, and while I have been tempted to go for the red dot it is more important to me to work on preparing myself for stressful situations. Competing against guys with red dots puts a fire in my belly to step up even though I know I could do way better if I had one. Plus there is something about training myself to look through a tiny window that seems like a bad idea especially when it comes to being aware of surroundings.
That said I am also cheap and custom surfboards are expensive.
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Picking up iron sights is a skill, and while I have been tempted to go for the red dot it is more important to me to work on preparing myself for stressful situations. Competing against guys with red dots puts a fire in my belly to step up even though I know I could do way better if I had one. Plus there is something about training myself to look through a tiny window that seems like a bad idea especially when it comes to being aware of surroundings.
That said I am also cheap and custom surfboards are expensive.
Your SA shouldn't be less using a red dot vs iron sights. It's essentially a heads up display where you are transposing the dot over the target. Yeah, I guess folks can get tunnel vision or limit their field of view by look through the red dot body, but if you're shooting both eyes open, your SA should be the full.
I can understand the hesitation on going with RDS on handgun because of the cost. That's what kept me from trying it for 2-3 years. Maybe a good thing that I waited as things have really picked up on that market with a lot more options.
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Cost is a huge factor. Maybe when im ready, hologram rds will exist. No need new holsters.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
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i was able to modify, form-fit some Safariland holsters to fit with RDS, using a heat gun and a foam press. took a lot of trial and error, and taping cardboard forms and shapes to the pistol to get the holster shape, contour right. it was definitely a learning experience.
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I used my Romeo 1 on the Sig 320RX for the first time at the bullseye pistol range. Yesterday I cowitnessed the red dot to my iron sights and I was shooting spot on. Then I noticed my groups were shifting 8 inches left and right. My sight was loose and I didn't have a wrench. Make sure to bring the mounting wrench with you to the range.
Today I tightened it up and it's shooting good. Took a while to find the dot at first but 10 repetitions from the compressed ready fixed it. Any slight movement makes the dot zig zag around whereas you wouldn't notice it as much on iron sights. I started out shaky as I haven't dry fire practiced for a long time.
The red dot is more precise even with my astigmatism. It is slower to aim than using irons especially during rapid fire where you can lose the dot for a split second. The reason it's slower at the bullseye range is because any precision errors are amplified by the red dot and you're spending extra time to correct them. Basically trading speed for extra precision. Also the iron sights are very large compared to a tiny red dot so you don't lose sight of the irons.
I rate myself as adequate with them now. Going to use it at Bob Smith's pistol class on the 20th.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200607/8bcd2335112a3845920388b894263260.jpg)
Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk
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Regarding balance of speed and accuracy, “embrace the wobble” and send it.
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I was hesitant on getting one for a pistol, but after putting a Holosun 507c on my Mark IV, I'm sold! :thumbsup:
much easier to see vs iron sights for me
i'm going to put one on my Ruger American pistol next. I never really liked the factory irons, so this should make a nice upgrade
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I was hesitant on getting one for a pistol, but after putting a Holosun 507c on my Mark IV, I'm sold! :thumbsup:
much easier to see vs iron sights for me
i'm going to put one on my Ruger American pistol next. I never really liked the factory irons, so this should make a nice upgrade
Awesome! RDS on handguns like the Mark IV and S&W Victory are even better since the dot doesn’t ride on a reciprocating slide.
I haven’t been shooting that much lately, but I’m mostly shooting RDS handguns when I do. I’ll still shoot irons for sure, particularly in pistol matches when the action bays open, hopefully soon. I’ve been looking for pick up another RM06, but also want to try the Holosun. Maybe an excuse to buy a Sig X5 🤔
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I like the reticle on the Holosun 507c, its like a mini Eotech reticle. its 2 MOA dot with 32 MOA circle. can be precise with the dot and circle get fast target acquisition. just my preference is all
plus I couldn't find any optic ready pistol locally that I like, so i'm going to just upgrade what I already have. save money :shaka:
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Rockette has been wanting one but need the slide w/cut out.
Anybody want to swap such a slide for G17 stock slide w/ Tritium sights + other maybe even ammo ?
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Rockette has been wanting one but need the slide w/cut out.
Anybody want to swap such a slide for G17 stock slide w/ Tritium sights + other maybe even ammo ?
LMK if you want to shoot mine. I have both a 17 and 19 slide with RMR and looking to get another RMR for another 19. You can borrow the 17 slide for a while if you'd like to test it out. I've been mostly shooting my 19 with RMR these days. Hopefully will have classes again soon.
I would also like to get either a 34 MOS or perhaps another optic ready pistol, like P10C or similar. A buddy shot his P10C with Holosun this past weekend, but I didn't get a chance to try it out.
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I liked the Holosin 507c on the Mark IV so much I got another 507c and mounted it on my Ruger American pistol using an outer impact mount that replaces the rear sight in the dovetail
Easy install using a sight pusher and nylon rods to tap the mount into place
I never enjoyed shooting this gun bc I couldn't shoot it that well. I just didnt like the factory white dot sights. Was thinking of fiber optic sights but why not step it up a notch to the RDS 8)
Shot it yesterday at kokohead pistol side, and it shoots way better with the RDS. Significantly. I can see the dot much clearer than I can the front sight. Shooting more easily, more consistently. Now I enjoy shooting this gun.
If you've never shot pistol with red dot, you should try it. Some guns it would make a significant improvement over irons, or in addition to irons
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I liked the Holosin 507c on the Mark IV so much I got another 507c and mounted it on my Ruger American pistol using an outer impact mount that replaces the rear sight in the dovetail
Easy install using a sight pusher and nylon rods to tap the mount into place
I never enjoyed shooting this gun bc I couldn't shoot it that well. I just didnt like the factory white dot sights. Was thinking of fiber optic sights but why not step it up a notch to the RDS 8)
Shot it yesterday at kokohead pistol side, and it shoots way better with the RDS. Significantly. I can see the dot much clearer than I can the front sight. Shooting more easily, more consistently. Now I enjoy shooting this gun.
If you've never shot pistol with red dot, you should try it. Some guns it would make a significant improvement over irons, or in addition to irons
Awesome! I don't think I will follow through any time soon, but a RDS on a S&W Victory or Ruger Mark IV is something I want. With that style of action, I can see it being VERY fast and fun to shoot!
I saw your post on the RDS mount on the rear sight notch. Does that not make it quite high? I mean I am sure still effective, but I've wondered about that mount method.
Yes! I agree that folks should try RDS on handguns. While I will continue to own and shoot handguns with iron sights, I am fully a believer on RDS on handguns. As one can see from this thread, there are definitely doubts and I had mine. But it offers so much in performance, including for those with aging eyes. Which sadly, I am in that category. . . :(
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My KHSC 25 yard training routine to get familiar with red dots is do at least 10 of each.
1. Low ready. Bring the gun up from the low ready and fire a shot on target. Start slow and speed up. Goal is to bring the dot on target without having to adjust and keeping shots on a sheet of paper.
2. Compressed ready. This is to practice getting the dot on target from a draw I'll start out at the compressed ready, two hand grip just infront of my chest, then punch out and shoot. Goal is to press the trigger right at arm extension. Start slow and speed up. My goal is to go only as fast as I can keep all shots on a sheet of paper. Other things to try is fire two shots instead of one. Also start out with both hands separated on the table with the gun in one hand.
3. Rapid fire. I'll rapid fire 5 shots to practice tracking the dot and keeping it on target. Start out 2 seconds between shoots starting with two shots, then increase to three shots, then four, then five. Then speed up the cadence to 1.5 seconds then one second between shots. Again go only as fast as you can keep the shots on a sheet of paper.
Once you get pretty good at it, do it one handed, strong and support side
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I saw your post on the RDS mount on the rear sight notch. Does that not make it quite high? I mean I am sure still effective, but I've wondered about that mount method.
it is a little higher but i dont think its too high. the 507c is already kind of a larger RDS. they make smaller ones but i like this model
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50582291623_dccb80b4f7_b.jpg)
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it is a little higher but i dont think its too high. the 507c is already kind of a larger RDS. they make smaller ones but i like this model
Ya, I saw the pic you posted in another thread. I know a similar mount is popular for CZ SP-01 where folks don't want to mill their slides. I have one slide where it's milled so deep that the stock sight heights work ok for co-witness. I've found that I like the lower dot level, but I haven't tried the taller. Guess we need a red dot range day. ;D
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Ya, I saw the pic you posted in another thread. I know a similar mount is popular for CZ SP-01 where folks don't want to mill their slides. I have one slide where it's milled so deep that the stock sight heights work ok for co-witness. I've found that I like the lower dot level, but I haven't tried the taller. Guess we need a red dot range day. ;D
Red dot, revolver, rimfire, whatever we call it we should do a get bc together when things mellow out a bit more :shaka:
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_dU7xqmBq0
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNDyUNtCvb4
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I've decided to not RDS the VP9. I just ordered a new WML IWM holster that has a hood from Fal Tac Industries. This way I don't have to keep removing the light when using the G-code one. Fal Tac makes custom kydex. Prob gonna get a g-string holster next for when we go to vegas and use fanny pack when going to the gym.
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I've decided to not RDS the VP9. I just ordered a new WML IWM holster that has a hood from Fal Tac Industries. This way I don't have to keep removing the light when using the G-code one. Fal Tac makes custom kydex. Prob gonna get a g-string holster next for when we go to vegas and use fanny pack when going to the gym.
(https://justwilliam1959.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/gun-thong.jpg)
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(https://justwilliam1959.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/gun-thong.jpg)
Why did you post that? Now I can’t UNSEE it!!! :rofl:
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Why did you post that? Now I can’t UNSEE it!!! :rofl:
At least he picked a somewhat shapely example. Not those types who regularly frequent Golden Corral. :o
:rofl:
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I've decided to not RDS the VP9. I just ordered a new WML IWM holster that has a hood from Fal Tac Industries. This way I don't have to keep removing the light when using the G-code one. Fal Tac makes custom kydex. Prob gonna get a g-string holster next for when we go to vegas and use fanny pack when going to the gym.
So you're sharing your decision to NOT go with a RDS in a thread on RDS experience? And then rambling on about g-string holsters and your plans for murses? :facepalm: :crazy:
:rofl:
;D
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So you're sharing your decision to NOT go with a RDS in a thread on RDS experience? And then rambling on about g-string holsters and your plans for murses? :facepalm: :crazy:
:rofl:
;D
No focus.
I choose to not share my sharing of RDS experience in the RDS experience sharing thread to share. :rofl:
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No focus.
I choose to not share my sharing of RDS experience in the RDS experience sharing thread to share. :rofl:
:rofl:
But seriously. You've tried them and making a decision based on that, as well as $$$. I would recommend keep trying them. From my experience, I needed a few range sessions and even dedicating a one day handgun class with them to work through initial impressions and fully (or at least mostly) see the benefits.
Sell some tinfoil and use the $$$ for a Holosun. :thumbsup:
;D
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I might have asked this b4,but forgot (no focus), when its dark and your WML is on, can you see the red dot? Example, when my WML is on and it's dark, my tridium sights are not visible and neither is the orange dot on the front post. I only see black front and rear sights.
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I might have asked this b4,but forgot (no focus), when its dark and your WML is on, can you see the red dot? Example, when my WML is on and it's dark, my tridium sights are not visible and neither is the orange dot on the front post. I only see black front and rear sights.
Yes, at least I can see the red dot in dark surroundings and light on. In my case, red dot is on usual daylight settings (on brighter side) and have tried 600-1000 lumen light. I can see the red dot really clearly, even with a bright handgun light. Probably even more clear than during the day time, which to me is because of no ambient/area light.
Understand what you're saying about iron sights being back lit. See my thread on fiber optic front sights. There's some discussion there and includes some good feedback from folks with much more experience on/with them.
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(https://i.imgur.com/Q0weE9h.jpg)
Trijicon suppressor-height sights, C&H PWS RMR MOS plate.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Frct9oKGJrs
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Shot RDS handgun last weekend for the first time in a while. Was shooting a 4" x 6" steel at about 25 yards and seemed to pick it back up quickly. I want to say it was easier after a layoff with RDS than irons. Hopefully I won't have such a long layoff before shooting handguns again, but next time I want to try and see how I do with irons after a layoff.
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With the lack of stuff on TV, i've been YTing a lot. And the plan was to get a 45 SIG Scorpion, but due to ammo cost of 45, that will go down on the list of stuff to buy. Since I got 9, might as well RDS a new pistol.
Looking at the SIG P320RXP. Comes with a Romeo 1 Pro on it. IDK if going with compact or full size yet. Then gotta get new holsters depending on which model I buy. I just started the info gathering stage. I like the Romeo1 pro due to price (it's not $700 like RMR). Prior I was gonna go with a Holosun 507C or X.
But when I shot my friends P320 in various models, I didn't really like the feel of the gun. But the RXP grips are different than the standard P320 models. But I never shot the P320 Legion type grips yet. So I might hate that model too and back to the drawing board.
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With the lack of stuff on TV, i've been YTing a lot. And the plan was to get a 45 SIG Scorpion, but due to ammo cost of 45, that will go down on the list of stuff to buy. Since I got 9, might as well RDS a new pistol.
Looking at the SIG P320RXP. Comes with a Romeo 1 Pro on it. IDK if going with compact or full size yet. Then gotta get new holsters depending on which model I buy. I just started the info gathering stage. I like the Romeo1 pro due to price (it's not $700 like RMR). Prior I was gonna go with a Holosun 507C or X.
But when I shot my friends P320 in various models, I didn't really like the feel of the gun. But the RXP grips are different than the standard P320 models. But I never shot the P320 Legion type grips yet. So I might hate that model too and back to the drawing board.
I haven't shot the P320 series with RDS, but I've shot them. I was pretty close to getting an X5 version. Then ammo and other stuff went to $hit and lost interest. The cost of mags, holster, and pouches added to that decision as well. That said, with that setup, you'll have a lot of opportunity to change things out. Not cheap, but at least you'll have options.
While I've heard good things about Holosun RDS on handguns, I haven't shot them much. One of my buddies has one on his 34, but I haven't had a chance to shoot it. They seem to get good reviews, with Sage Dynamics being one that comes to mind. If they can stand up to his use (and abuse), that says a good amount However, if you're pricing RMRs at $700, you're "doing it wrong".
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(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50948159386_0685d9213c_b.jpg)
Holosun 507c with Trijicon suppressor height tough night sights
i now have 4 Holosun RDS (actually one is green). 1 is the 510c on my AR, the other 3 are 507c on pistols. all function great. you get a lot for what you pay for. and from the testing i've seen they hold up to being used pretty good. i dont beat on them as much as i seen in videos so i figure it should fit my needs very well
i've shot my friend's Sig Romeo on his Sig P320 Legion and it works great too. i dont have a lot of experience with red dots, but i have zero complaints about the Holosuns.
i also like the Holosun bc of the reticle. its like the EoTech. i like the dot with the circle. for me having the circle helps pick up the target faster
recently i've brought several new shooters to kokohead and shot with the red dots on pistols and on the AR. 1 thing that is common with the new shooter is that it is more difficult for them to pick up the dot than it is to aim with iron sights
having the G19 being able to co-witness makes it a little easier bc the new shooter is looking for the front sight and once they see the front sight in the window of the RDS, then they can pick up the dot
other pistol which does not co-witness was more difficult for the new shooter to pick up the dot bc when they sight the front sight, the dot is not visible
being able to point and shoot like muscle memory of pointing the gun makes it easier to pick up the dot. practice, practice, practice :thumbsup:
rifle was easier for the new shooters to pick up the red dot bc its easier to point shoot a rifle vs a pistol, IMO anyways
being somewhat of a traditionalist, i'm not going to put a dot on any of my revolvers or 1911's. but that's just me. i could change my mind down the road
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Reasons for Romeo1 Pro on RXP
Comes with rear sight built into optic (no need buy suppressor sights) a big savings. And handgun comes with suppressor front sight.
Looks cooler than the holosun
Other than that, I was gonna go holosun. The issue im also reading about is that the SIG RDS are proprietary to SIG guns. But I'm sure you can find a plate for it somewhere.
I was gonna go holosun on the Walther PDP, but after reading that their slide mill has nothing sticking out of it to help absorb recoil stress, I'm gonna wait to see if they fix it. Currently the milled optics ready portion is flat.
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...
being somewhat of a traditionalist, i'm not going to put a dot on any of my revolvers or 1911's. but that's just me. i could change my mind down the road
could be the next big thing, "Optic-Ready Revolver"? maybe not from S&W or Colt, but some company like Taurus.
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Inspector had a red dot on one of his revolvers. ;D
I don’t have a desire for an RDS 1911, but not against one. I’d love to have a CZ Shadow or Tangfo with RDS.
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Inspector had a red dot on one of his revolvers. ;D
I don’t have a desire for an RDS 1911, but not against one. I’d love to have a CZ Shadow or Tangfo with RDS.
i remember it was on his Super Redhawk 454 if i remember correctly
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i remember it was on his Super Redhawk 454 if i remember correctly
I have a Ruger Redhawk. That is one gun that is safe from being "red dotted". ;D
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i remember it was on his Super Redhawk 454 if i remember correctly
Yes, and I have one of my 627. I just took one off one of my target 22’s.
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The issue im also reading about is that the SIG RDS are proprietary to SIG guns. But I'm sure you can find a plate for it somewhere.
CH Precision makes plates for the SIGs so you can other than Romeo.
https://chpws.com
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Pretty good pricing.
https://www.primaryarms.com/trijicon-rmr-type-2-led-reflex-sight-3.25-moa?trk_msg=RPFR2OPJGHU4T3NE9KARSB8AMS&trk_contact=J368T26GD5K2GGO48SVVQCV86C&trk_sid=MQSTRSSVMKFTUM46JV93F4NH7K&utm_source=listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=SLOT_9&utm_campaign=21_04_AD04_InStock
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Pretty good pricing.
https://www.primaryarms.com/trijicon-rmr-type-2-led-reflex-sight-3.25-moa?trk_msg=RPFR2OPJGHU4T3NE9KARSB8AMS&trk_contact=J368T26GD5K2GGO48SVVQCV86C&trk_sid=MQSTRSSVMKFTUM46JV93F4NH7K&utm_source=listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=SLOT_9&utm_campaign=21_04_AD04_InStock
That is good pricing, normal is about $700.
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That is good pricing, normal is about $700.
Really? I thought the "competitive rate" was in the $500-550 range with sales down to $450ish and occasionally down to $400. Or at least that's what I've seen online and locally on occasion. Primary Arms is usually pretty good on pricing and availability though.
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CMO - Continuing in topic appropriate thread.
No, 1911 got pushed to the top. Instead of RDSing my VP9 (only handgun I own), I'm gonna get a new gun and RDS that one. I don't want to buy a 6th and 7th holster for her (OWB and IWB). Gonna wait till EO Tech's RDS comes out and see the reviews on that. I don't like removing the optic to change the battery. And EOTech is more tacticool than Holosun. But let's see the price comparison. She warrior poet MR comes with a Holosun so ready to rock n roll out of the box. G19 clone.
Interesting. First I read/heard about the EoTech RDS. At MSRP of $389, that would be pretty competitive in between say the Trijicon and Leupold lines and Holosun. I'm personally wary of a first gen/iteration product. Seems like (at least from what I read) they are in the running for contract for the M17 pistol. Is that why you are interested?
I looked into costs to mill a slide and for me, I would rather go with a run with RMR ready slide from a mfr. There are a bunch now. I think only Glock MOS was available when I was looking. Now Glock, VP9, multiple CZ, PPQ, and lots more to choose from.
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CMO - Continuing in topic appropriate thread.
Interesting. First I read/heard about the EoTech RDS. At MSRP of $389, that would be pretty competitive in between say the Trijicon and Leupold lines and Holosun. I'm personally wary of a first gen/iteration product. Seems like (at least from what I read) they are in the running for contract for the M17 pistol. Is that why you are interested?
I looked into costs to mill a slide and for me, I would rather go with a run with RMR ready slide from a mfr. There are a bunch now. I think only Glock MOS was available when I was looking. Now Glock, VP9, multiple CZ, PPQ, and lots more to choose from.
Seen it's release at SHOT Show. I agree, gen 1 stuff usually has more defects that need to be ironed out. I'm in no rush to RDS. Although I do see the huge advantage cause at many of the skill builders, most are running them. It's going the way of RDS on a rifle. 100% people during a carbine SB are running some kind of optic. Iron sights are the way of the dodo.
The Romeo1 by SIG was another contender, but to get the plate is an issue last I was looking about a year ago. I'm sure there are people who make them for various guns, but that just adds to the cost.
Like I said above, my main focus is the 1911 right now. My LGS is gonna bid on GB for me since I already put down a deposit and his supplier ain't happening. I gave him a $ to not exceed plus like $100 finders fee.
I'm not RDSing the 1911. IMO, it just looks stupid.
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I'm not RDSing the 1911. IMO, it just looks stupid.
the smaller RMSc-footprint red dots might not look so obtrusive on the svelt lines of the 1911. like the holosun 507K or similar.
some random picture from a DuckDuckGo search:
(https://i.imgur.com/pHnkFMf.jpg)
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Not looking for a new handgun, but this is tempting. Form, function, and utility.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220309/b38676aa26be4d2d22f369d4c4ee285b.jpg)
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Walther PDP now coming with engraved and not a flat RDS surface. Which is why i dissmissed this gun. Too much front to back, side to side posibility even though walther says NP.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220310/590dc2a066f176b3f588b83cf3a59a3f.jpg)
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Walther PDP now coming with engraved and not a flat RDS surface. Which is why i dissmissed this gun. Too much front to back, side to side posibility even though walther says NP.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Yeah. If you're going to do something, do it right. Seems like they are a little late to the party and wanting to show innovation.
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Getting back into shooting more consistently now, right as the "north facing" ranges are going to be shut down until end of Sept. . . :(
Was able to hit the bullseye range this past weekend and changed battery on two of my RMRs and rezero. They are essentially the same Glock 19s, different models from the same builder. One RMR was fine after battery replacement, and the other needed some adjustment. Might have been rust showing, as the gun that needed adjustment was the first I shot for the day. I seemed to get into a groove and things tightened up after a while.
Some highlights:
1) I was surprised at the amount of crud that I found under the optic, above and below the RMR seal plate. I think mostly range dust and stuff. I have shot these pistols in a number of classes and training, but I was still surprised as how much crap got under the body of the RMR.
2) I checked the set screw on the rear sight of both guns and the mounting screws for the RMR prior to hitting the range. The set screw of one of the guns wasn't tight. The RMR mount screw on one side of one gun was a little loose, or I could tighten easily. Not worried about the set screws for the rear sights as I fitted the rear sights pretty snug and takes a decent amount of force to drift the sights. However, the RMR mount screws is something I'll have to watch. The screws I used for the initial install had some thread locker applied from the mounting screw supplier, but I am guessing it broke down. After changing the battery and zero-ing, I put witness marks on the RMR mounting screws and the elevation and windage dials.
3) Seeing a LOT more pistols with RDS at the range lately. Great to see. That said, I also will need to be sure to put in more time shooting irons along the way as well.
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Getting back into shooting more consistently now, right as the "north facing" ranges are going to be shut down until end of Sept. . . :(
Was able to hit the bullseye range this past weekend and changed battery on two of my RMRs and rezero. They are essentially the same Glock 19s, different models from the same builder. One RMR was fine after battery replacement, and the other needed some adjustment. Might have been rust showing, as the gun that needed adjustment was the first I shot for the day. I seemed to get into a groove and things tightened up after a while.
Some highlights:
1) I was surprised at the amount of crud that I found under the optic, above and below the RMR seal plate. I think mostly range dust and stuff. I have shot these pistols in a number of classes and training, but I was still surprised as how much crap got under the body of the RMR.
2) I checked the set screw on the rear sight of both guns and the mounting screws for the RMR prior to hitting the range. The set screw of one of the guns wasn't tight. The RMR mount screw on one side of one gun was a little loose, or I could tighten easily. Not worried about the set screws for the rear sights as I fitted the rear sights pretty snug and takes a decent amount of force to drift the sights. However, the RMR mount screws is something I'll have to watch. The screws I used for the initial install had some thread locker applied from the mounting screw supplier, but I am guessing it broke down. After changing the battery and zero-ing, I put witness marks on the RMR mounting screws and the elevation and windage dials.
3) Seeing a LOT more pistols with RDS at the range lately. Great to see. That said, I also will need to be sure to put in more time shooting irons along the way as well.
1. Do you use a sealing plate?
2. Do you use thread locker? What type?
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1. Do you use a sealing plate?
2. Do you use thread locker? What type?
1. Yup, used Trijicon's sealing plates for both guns. All my guns with RMR.
2. Not sure on original. I'm not sure. I think for the set screw I used a medium/blue thread locker, but not Loctite brand. Can't say for sure what I used on the original mounting screws for the RMR, but the screws did have the remnants of threadlocker.
When remounting, I used 242. I have VC3 and I also have 222 coming. I have used 242 on pretty much all my firearms when applying threadlocker. I typically put witness marks on stuff like the screws for iron signs and optic mounts for my AR, but never put witness marks on pistol stuff before.
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I knew we had a rds thread. I searched in tools. No focus.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
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I knew we had a rds thread. I searched in tools. No focus.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Focus more on getting a RDS pistol and training. Less on comparing how you shoot to fruits and balls. . . :rofl:
But seriously, depending on when the EPS full size comes back in stock. I will likely have at least one RMR-06 available.
I pick up my 43x with milled slide today. Already have the EPS Carry in hand, so ready to go there.
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***MODS, PLEASE MOVE THIS TO THE TOOLS SUB FORUM. Thanks.
So I'm watching more and more RDs vids. But the issue is that most of them are like 3-5 years old. Which IDK how much of their info still holds true all these years later. Like the RMR has been around for that long, with no huge updates so the "Should I RDS my pistol" vids are all very old.
The comparison vids are newer since new stuff does come out. Most of the zeroing vids are quite old. But 1 stuck out which is why I'm posting about the time here. Sage Dynamics had a OG vid and then another one to amend it some time later, but this 2nd vid is still 2 years old. It's about zeroing. He mentions zero at 25 from bench, but confirm with no bench. As the zero can change. Then you have the newer vids mention zeroing at 10yrds is OK. Which makes me wonder was 25 the go to for RDS zero 5 years ago, but now that more info and learning is done, 10 is fine. And like Jedi mentions the diff from a 10yrd zero at 25rds is 0.71 inches. "If that matters, then you're living life too hard".
Some things that have held true from 5 year old vids to more recent ones are:
1) The gun will be more accurate that you are (you wont come close to accuracy to what the gun is designed to do)
2) Use the irons as a starting point to zero
3) Don't chase the dot (when zeroing) Maybe the last 3 years of vids, I didn't see any 5 year old vids mention this.
None of this includes the topic of evolution of RDS or tactics. Info overload at this point for this post. But regarding evolution, the RMR is still king all these years later. So looks like Trijicon got it right the first time.
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***MODS, PLEASE MOVE THIS TO THE TOOLS SUB FORUM. Thanks.
So I'm watching more and more RDs vids. But the issue is that most of them are like 3-5 years old. Which IDK how much of their info still holds true all these years later. Like the RMR has been around for that long, with no huge updates so the "Should I RDS my pistol" vids are all very old.
The comparison vids are newer since new stuff does come out. Most of the zeroing vids are quite old. But 1 stuck out which is why I'm posting about the time here. Sage Dynamics had a OG vid and then another one to amend it some time later, but this 2nd vid is still 2 years old. It's about zeroing. He mentions zero at 25 from bench, but confirm with no bench. As the zero can change. Then you have the newer vids mention zeroing at 10yrds is OK. Which makes me wonder was 25 the go to for RDS zero 5 years ago, but now that more info and learning is done, 10 is fine. And like Jedi mentions the diff from a 10yrd zero at 25rds is 0.71 inches. "If that matters, then you're living life too hard".
Some things that have held true from 5 year old vids to more recent ones are:
1) The gun will be more accurate that you are (you wont come close to accuracy to what the gun is designed to do)
2) Use the irons as a starting point to zero
3) Don't chase the dot (when zeroing) Maybe the last 3 years of vids, I didn't see any 5 year old vids mention this.
None of this includes the topic of evolution of RDS or tactics. Info overload at this point for this post. But regarding evolution, the RMR is still king all these years later. So looks like Trijicon got it right the first time.
Why do you feel there is an issue with videos that are 3-5 years old? There are a lot more recent videos, many by folks who have new(er)/(ish) channels, but does that make the information better? Also note that many have gone to Patreon due to YT's practices and anti-2a policies. Sage Dynamics has a Patreon channel.
You're over thinking the zeroing thing, and I think missing the point of why Sage Dynamics revisited. Not quite swooooshhh level, but maybe swsh. . . Similar to rifle red dot zero, decide for yourself based on your specific context, then learn the POI and any variation based on distances.
One pro of Trijicon RMR has been durability, at least for me. The foot print discussion is interesting, but also interesting is how many other companies decided to go with the same footprint for optics that followed. I think Holosun has great products and most importantly they are seeming always progressing based on consumer input. Maybe they won't get .mil contracts until some supply chain issues change, but as consumers we benefit from their continuing product evolution. And I am a fan of the RMR and have them on multiple pistols.
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Why do you feel there is an issue with videos that are 3-5 years old? There are a lot more recent videos, many by folks who have new(er)/(ish) channels, but does that make the information better? Also note that many have gone to Patreon due to YT's practices and anti-2a policies. Sage Dynamics has a Patreon channel.
You're over thinking the zeroing thing, and I think missing the point of why Sage Dynamics revisited. Not quite swooooshhh level, but maybe swsh. . . Similar to rifle red dot zero, decide for yourself based on your specific context, then learn the POI and any variation based on distances.
One pro of Trijicon RMR has been durability, at least for me. The foot print discussion is interesting, but also interesting is how many other companies decided to go with the same footprint for optics that followed. I think Holosun has great products and most importantly they are seeming always progressing based on consumer input. Maybe they won't get .mil contracts until some supply chain issues change, but as consumers we benefit from their continuing product evolution. And I am a fan of the RMR and have them on multiple pistols.
Im still learning, its all french to me
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Im still learning, its all french to me
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Regarding zero, I have done a number of different ways. In the past, was zero at 25 yards, because that's what KHSC has targets at, then confirm at "in your face" to further than 25 yards. Then I tried starting zero at 10 yards and found that shooting at 15+ noted some magnification in windage that didn't see at 10 yards. So if you're going to zero at 10, verify windage at further distance.
Similar with dot MOA. Lots of videos on pros/cons of larger/smaller. Many similar to S/D where their preference for zero and dot size changed over the years, or where they decided to revisit occasionally. Once I have things the way I like, I tend to stop researching. But like with the closed emitters, sometimes things catch my attention. Sometimes when least expected.
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Like my AR optic SIG Romero5, where the dot sits, is where my POI is (excluding hold over distances). So I can move my head left, right, or in any manner and the dot will stay on where I'm holding it (assume no other movements of the rifle).
Will pistol RDS work the same? What I'm getting at is the dot may be on target, but the irons are not (for pistol). Will the bullet pretty much go where the dot sits regardless of the irons?
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Like my AR optic SIG Romero5, where the dot sits, is where my POI is (excluding hold over distances). So I can move my head left, right, or in any manner and the dot will stay on where I'm holding it (assume no other movements of the rifle).
Will pistol RDS work the same? What I'm getting at is the dot may be on target, but the irons are not (for pistol). Will the bullet pretty much go where the dot sits regardless of the irons?
Spanish knock-off?
Parallax? Yes, it works same/similar. Test for yourself on acceptable sight alignment/sight picture. Try this next time you have access to shoot at say 3-15 yards. Start with irons. Put front sight far left, far right, top, and bottom alignment in the rear sight. See where impacts are in your selected target size (say 6" circle). Then try with RDS. With RDS, at least for me and RMR, the shots stacked at at least 7 yards. I don't recall what they were at 7+.
It's not that the dot is on target and the irons are not. It's your head is out of alignment with the bore. . .
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Helped a friend zero his RDS this weekend at 10yrds. I was hesitant to do this freehand due to me thinking my marksmanship isn't like the YT guys. Which means too much human error and I would just be chasing zero. But looks like at 10, I'm gudd enuff.
Shot a few more RDS and I can def see the advantages. Now to RDS my SD/range gun is the next question....Be on the look out for a future thread possibly.
I know I don't want to RDs the 1911 as I want to keep it like how MEU/Recon used it. I dont' want to RDS the VP9 as I dont want to add a 6ths holster. So maybe a new gun will be in the futurre that's optics ready.
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Helped a friend zero his RDS this weekend at 10yrds. I was hesitant to do this freehand due to me thinking my marksmanship isn't like the YT guys. Which means too much human error and I would just be chasing zero. But looks like at 10, I'm gudd enuff.
Shot a few more RDS and I can def see the advantages. Now to RDS my SD/range gun is the next question....Be on the look out for a future thread possibly.
I know I don't want to RDs the 1911 as I want to keep it like how MEU/Recon used it. I dont' want to RDS the VP9 as I dont want to add a 6ths holster. So maybe a new gun will be in the futurre that's optics ready.
Starting a thread of your experiences has a number of benefits. Similar to your 1911 thread, you can go back over time and see how things have progress, and maybe changed or evolved. Also serves as a revisit to experiences after the fact and the process of getting things "on paper" helps, at least helps me.
I personally would also keep your 1911 as is. I don't know about milling options for VP9s, but lots more shops doing them nowadays, where pricing and turn-around is pretty good. VP9 and P10C optic ready guns did pique my interest, but don't think I will go that route now that i'm into Glock slim-body pistols and the P320. Good to have plenty of choices.
Speaking of holsters, I am currently getting rid of a LOT of Glock 17 holsters that don't accommodate optics. Luckily have many friends with Glock 17, 19, 22, etc. Don't let a $30-100 accessory limit your capability and growth.
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Since the shooting bays reopened, had a couple of fun days on the range for the first time in a long time. Shot mostly my 17.5 with Holosun EPS. Changed the trigger from Johnny Glock EVO to Overwatch and liking it.
Been shooting pistols here and there, but mostly concentrating in the 17.5/EPS setup right now. At least until my RCR comes in. . . Nothing wrong with the EPS, just really want to try the RCR. I have a 17.5 with Acro, but while that setup is solid, it's bulky. Might shoot that in some USPSA matches next month.
Overall still a big fan of RDS. Was able to take a couple of classes in 2023, which really helped. Finer details on stuff like vision fukus, target transition, etc. Seeing more and more folks shooting with RDS, or at least trying. It does take some time to transition, but believe it's worth it. Yeah, some of my RDS cost more than the guns they sit on, but I do consider them well worth the money.
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For classes on the mainland, like the Rangemaster and ASP conference I went to, 80% of the shooters are shooting with pistol optics.
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For classes on the mainland, like the Rangemaster and ASP conference I went to, 80% of the shooters are shooting with pistol optics.
For open range days on Oahu lately, I think about 60% or more with RDS pistols as primary (say shooting for score). For the remaining 40%, of the folks I spoke to most either already have a pistol with RDS but wasn't using it that day (for various reasons) or putting it off (cost being primary).
Comparing to carbines, I would say seeing the 80%+ with optics. Sure, there are folks who still enjoy shooting irons. I still shoot irons here and there with ARs/AKs and others like my 1903. But mostly shooting with carbines with RDS or some sort of optic.
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I've been using my Romeo 1 on a P320 and EPS Carry on a Glock 48. It's like cheating when shooting long distance, tighter groups and simpler to shoot than with irons. I'm still slow using it close up. Its difficult to speed up and acquire the dot on a draw so I'm practicing reps. And the other thing is I could trade some accuracy for speed, but unconsciously I just don't want to.
I found it is much easier to be accurate using it in rapid fire. You have an on obstructed view of the target, and it's much simpler to look at the dot than lining up sights in the miliseconds between shots.
I'm going to TACCON next week in Dallas and everyone will be using optics there.
This was my practice target yesterday with the red shots being a Glock 48 at 7 yards. Half of them were one shot from step 3 of the draw, gun rotated forward. My shot times were 1.1 seconds with .2 sec being reaction time. It should be .75 seconds. Other half of the shots were shoot 1 reload shoot 6 rapid fire strings with .2 splits. It was easy to keep the dot in the center of the target improving accuracy.
The green shots were a few 6 shot strings with 1s splits. Again easy to keep the dot on target.
(https://i.imgur.com/ucNGf4i.jpeg)
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For open range days on Oahu lately, I think about 60% or more with RDS pistols as primary (say shooting for score). For the remaining 40%, of the folks I spoke to most either already have a pistol with RDS but wasn't using it that day (for various reasons) or putting it off (cost being primary).
Comparing to carbines, I would say seeing the 80%+ with optics. Sure, there are folks who still enjoy shooting irons. I still shoot irons here and there with ARs/AKs and others like my 1903. But mostly shooting with carbines with RDS or some sort of optic.
TRex Arms had an interesting post about Holosun (Chinese). It was basically about that all the feedback to Holosun on how to improve their product helps the Chinese give their military and police better stuff. Like America is their R&D. China proves a much more affordable alternative and listens to what the people want.
My response to that is:
1) Holosun is an affordable optic. Maybe if Trijicon made a more affordable one that looks cool, then people would buy that. But like the cost of a RMR is double what a similar Holosun RDS is. And majority of the civilian buyers don't need something as rugged. And does Trijicon need to maintain that price? They have lots of government contracts out there.
2) For years, people have been asking for a side load battery for their RMR. I mean, to have to remove the optic and re-zero just to change the battery is stupid. IDK if Holo or another brand held a patent for a side loading battery.
After reading Trex's replies, he was basically blaming consumers for helping China. Not everyone can afford a double the price pistol red dot. And even if they can, they would be able to allcoate that money toward training instead as they aren't LEO/Mil who needs a more durable pistol RDS.
Others replying were like "stop being poor". Well not everyone can afford a $600 RMR or keep looking for sales. They want to be able to buy a RDS when they want and not have to wait for sales or hunt for one.
For me, when I buy stuff, I look at is this a good value for my $. Like I'm spending double on the RMR, am I getting double the benefits?
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I've been using my Romeo 1 on a P320 and EPS Carry on a Glock 48. It's like cheating when shooting long distance, tighter groups and simpler to shoot than with irons. I'm still slow using it close up. Its difficult to speed up and acquire the dot on a draw so I'm practicing reps. And the other thing is I could trade some accuracy for speed, but unconsciously I just don't want to.
I found it is much easier to be accurate using it in rapid fire. You have an on obstructed view of the target, and it's much simpler to look at the dot than lining up sights in the miliseconds between shots.
I'm going to TACCON next week in Dallas and everyone will be using optics there.
This was my practice target yesterday with the red shots being a Glock 48 at 7 yards. Half of them were one shot from step 3 of the draw, gun rotated forward. My shot times were 1.1 seconds with .2 sec being reaction time. It should be .75 seconds. Other half of the shots were shoot 1 reload shoot 6 rapid fire strings with .2 splits. It was easy to keep the dot in the center of the target improving accuracy.
The red shots were a few 6 shot strings with 1s splits. Again easy to keep the dot on target.
(https://i.imgur.com/ucNGf4i.jpeg)
There are numerous videos, and various methods on how to address this and/or improve on. In the two courses I took last year, they each had slightly different takes. Similar in many ways as well. Try "extreme" focus on a point and put the dot on the point. If you are having consistency issues with putting the dot on the point, there are many ways to address. That said, with irons, you've probably gotten used to point shooting.
There's also the aspect of "embrace the wobble", where tendency is to want to have the dot "set" prior to "sending it". I think that's where you may be sensing some relaxation on speed vs accuracy.
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TRex Arms had an interesting post about Holosun (Chinese). It was basically about that all the feedback to Holosun on how to improve their product helps the Chinese give their military and police better stuff. Like America is their R&D. China proves a much more affordable alternative and listens to what the people want.
My response to that is:
1) Holosun is an affordable optic. Maybe if Trijicon made a more affordable one that looks cool, then people would buy that. But like the cost of a RMR is double what a similar Holosun RDS is. And majority of the civilian buyers don't need something as rugged. And does Trijicon need to maintain that price? They have lots of government contracts out there.
2) For years, people have been asking for a side load battery for their RMR. I mean, to have to remove the optic and re-zero just to change the battery is stupid. IDK if Holo or another brand held a patent for a side loading battery.
After reading Trex's replies, he was basically blaming consumers for helping China. Not everyone can afford a double the price pistol red dot. And even if they can, they would be able to allcoate that money toward training instead as they aren't LEO/Mil who needs a more durable pistol RDS.
Others replying were like "stop being poor". Well not everyone can afford a $600 RMR or keep looking for sales. They want to be able to buy a RDS when they want and not have to wait for sales or hunt for one.
For me, when I buy stuff, I look at is this a good value for my $. Like I'm spending double on the RMR, am I getting double the benefits?
New version of cerakote? 8)
Patent for side loading battery door? Uh. . . (overthinking mebbe?)
In the end, it's your money. If you're comfortable with guud enuff for your, then rock on. Who cares what anyone else thinks. Believe Lucas and/or TRex folks get "help" from Trijicon, be it $$$, products, etc. I mean I don't agree with some of the gear snubbery. I like Holosun products. In the end, consumers often pay more than the "raw" cost to produce a given product. . .
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I've mentioned my preference before, but this is a new anecdote.
Being the KISS type, I've worked with electronics for close to half a century.
I have difficulty trusting electronic sights on my guns.
About 3 weeks ago, I was helping a guy at the range with his SIG.
His Romeo Zero sight was dead.
(He said he just changed the battery)
I got more stories about optical sights.
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I've mentioned my preference before, but this is a new anecdote.
Being the KISS type, I've worked with electronics for close to half a century.
I have difficulty trusting electronic sights on my guns.
About 3 weeks ago, I was helping a guy at the range with his SIG.
His Romeo Zero sight was dead.
(He said he just changed the battery)
I got more stories about optical sights.
There's that and certainly valid. I intend to shoot more with irons, but often end up not doing it.
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There's also the aspect of "embrace the wobble", where tendency is to want to have the dot "set" prior to "sending it". I think that's where you may be sensing some relaxation on speed vs accuracy.
Just seems barbaric.
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Just seems barbaric.
???
Shoot a USPSA match in carry optics. . . you'll see/hear that. Direct from the barbarians.
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Ccw qual with RDS on a shield plus. And cold, havent shot for over a year.
Then did the VP9 iron sights after and still scored 100%, but grouping was slightly bigger.
So, i think RDS is more accurate for me. But still slower on the initial acquesition. Which practice can fix, as i shot irons for thousands of more rounds than a RDS.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240325/3d65e33acfb151430a463fabe4c9b89d.jpg)
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
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Ccw qual with RDS on a shield plus. And cold, havent shot for over a year.
Then did the VP9 iron sights after and still scored 100%, but grouping was slightly bigger.
So, i think RDS is more accurate for me. But still slower on the initial acquesition. Which practice can fix, as i shot irons for thousands of more rounds than a RDS.
SNIP
That's a generous line break (top 9 ring) :P
Now that you qual'ed, try shooting while "pushing it". Say 1/2 the part times.
I reshot recently as well. I would say I shot "careful", but pushing it a bit. Threw one at 15. Otherwise clean. Think I was getting a little cocky after shooting the 3-10 yard distances clean. I want to shoot the qual again with my 43x and pushing the pace.
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That's a generous line break (top 9 ring) :P
Now that you qual'ed, try shooting while "pushing it". Say 1/2 the part times.
I reshot recently as well. I would say I shot "careful", but pushing it a bit. Threw one at 15. Otherwise clean. Think I was getting a little cocky after shooting the 3-10 yard distances clean. I want to shoot the qual again with my 43x and pushing the pace.
A break is a break. If in doubt, it counts.
Usually when I attend open shoots, my first mag is a mag dump and to see how accurate I can be cold. IDK when I'm going to get to do this again though. Might go to Vegas before the next time an open shoot happens.
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A break is a break. If in doubt, it counts.
Usually when I attend open shoots, my first mag is a mag dump and to see how accurate I can be cold. IDK when I'm going to get to do this again though. Might go to Vegas before the next time an open shoot happens.
O0
Missed the point, but not quite a swoosh worthy. . .
You should shoot a match with sakmak. . . I think that would be interesting. .. alledgedly
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O0
Missed the point, but not quite a swoosh worthy. . .
You should shoot a match with sakmak. . . I think that would be interesting. .. alledgedly
How? Since he owns no guns.
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How? Since he owns no guns.
sakmak is the xhe alter ego that owns guns. . .
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Can't put red a dot on my PPK/S clone.
My wife will never see a new LC 9 with integral laser.
My conceal carry guns.
Safely stashed away outside HI.
I was always taught to keep both eyes open when shooting.
aim with one eye and watch for what ever with the other.
I suppose that comes from my heavy shotgun background,
you really don't use sights much when the target is moving.
In fact all my hunting and self protection shotguns have no sights
on the barrel.
Just me I guess.
:geekdanc:
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Can't put red a dot on my PPK/S clone.
My wife will never see a new LC 9 with integral laser.
My conceal carry guns.
Safely stashed away outside HI.
I was always taught to keep both eyes open when shooting.
aim with one eye and watch for what ever with the other.
I suppose that comes from my heavy shotgun background,
you really don't use sights much when the target is moving.
In fact all my hunting and self protection shotguns have no sights
on the barrel.
Just me I guess.
:geekdanc:
RDS in pistol and carbine, def both eyes open. As for everything else, uh, mkay…
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Can't put red a dot on my PPK/S clone.
My wife will never see a new LC 9 with integral laser.
My conceal carry guns.
Safely stashed away outside HI.
I was always taught to keep both eyes open when shooting.
aim with one eye and watch for what ever with the other.
I suppose that comes from my heavy shotgun background,
you really don't use sights much when the target is moving.
In fact all my hunting and self protection shotguns have no sights
on the barrel.
Just me I guess.
:geekdanc:
If your everyday carry (EDC) pistols are in another state,
you're doing it wrong.
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If your everyday carry (EDC) pistols are in another state,
you're doing it wrong.
Since I'm a legal resident of WA state,
have a WA state CCW license,
and I refuse to register any gun I may own, with the state of
Hawaii, and the CCW hoops are BS and CCW licenses useless after all
new "safe" zones your governments have created,
what do you suggest?
I know that sentence is too long.
Airplane tickets are cheap.
:thumbsup:
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Anyways. . . :stopjack:
Been watching a lot of videos on vision plane focus and tendency for eyes to focus on the dot, especially in target transitions and efforts to "track the dot". Where many think they are "target focused", but aren't. I've been shooting more recently with an occluded dot, where you definitely "see" if you are target focused or not.
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Since I'm a legal resident of WA state,
have a WA state CCW license,
and I refuse to register any gun I may own, with the state of
Hawaii, and the CCW hoops are BS and CCW licenses useless after all
new "safe" zones your governments have created,
what do you suggest?
I know that sentence is too long.
Airplane tickets are cheap.
:thumbsup:
I "suggest" that you calling a pistol your concealed carry doesn't have any meaning in this context. If you can't get to it in a pinch, it might as well not exist.
Maybe coin a new term? Perhaps "Out-of-State Carry (OSC)'? That's pretty much what carry pistols were for those of us who carried them while on travel to the mainland. The big differrence is it was still a viable home defense option here when not traveling.
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focus...
Anyways. . . :stopjack:
Been watching a lot of videos on vision plane focus and tendency for eyes to focus on the dot, especially in target transitions and efforts to "track the dot". Where many think they are "target focused", but aren't. I've been shooting more recently with an occluded dot, where you definitely "see" if you are target focused or not.
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focus...
it's vision fukus. . .
8)
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Y'all might remember about 3 years ago I finished a match after my front sight broke off. Try shooting with no sights some time. At close range it's mostly just lining up the top of the gun anyway.
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focusing on target...OK....
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focusing on target...OK....
From your previous postings, you focus on the dot, correct? Why is that? Is that for shooting USPSA or defensive shooting?
Look up opinions/feedback from Glock Captain and USAMU (or maybe former by now) shooter Shane Coley. Or other Master and Grandmaster shooters, like Ben Stoeger and JJ Racaza.
But hey, at least you shoot. Not a broken record…
ETA: Shane Coley is now former USAMU.
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Y'all might remember about 3 years ago I finished a match after my front sight broke off. Try shooting with no sights some time. At close range it's mostly just lining up the top of the gun anyway.
I use the corner/edge of the slide
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I use the corner/edge of the slide
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Guud enuff?
USAH match April 19. Try carry optics, but you can try your no-sights theory…
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From your previous postings, you focus on the dot, correct? Why is that? Is that for shooting USPSA or defensive shooting?
Look up opinions/feedback from Glock Captain and USAMU (or maybe former by now) shooter Shane Coley. Or other Master and Grandmaster shooters, like Ben Stoeger and JJ Racaza.
But hey, at least you shoot. Not a broken record…
ETA: Shane Coley is now former USAMU.
https://thecmp.org/training-tech/shooting-tips-from-the-usamu-service-rifle-team/usamu-faqs-equipment-and-ammunition/
Q: Sir: Thanks to you and the whole team for your articles on highpower shooting. This is my first year shooting and I am really enjoying it. I shoot both a match rifle and an AR15 Armalite service rifle. I am 52 years old. I shoot right-handed and use my right eye for aiming. I require corrective lenses for far sightedness, and this year I got bi-focal glasses for shooting. The lower lens for reading the scorebook, and the upper part of the lens provides clear focus on the front sight post thanks to my eye doctor.
I am using the smallest aperture for the rear NM sight, 0.043. While this helps improve my depth of field over the three larger apertures I have, I still have trouble getting good focus on both the front sight and the target at 600 yards (I have less of a problem at 200 and 300 yards). An experienced shooter suggested an even smaller aperture would improve the depth of field at 600. Do you agree, and if so, where is a source for a smaller aperture for my NM sight? Is there another type of insert for my NM sight that would improve the focus and keep the rifle legal for service rifle competition?
Looking forward to your response, and thanks again for your great service to shooting sports.
Keith H.
A: Mr. H
You brought up a point that many new shooters have difficulty understanding. The only thing that should be in focus is the front sight. The human eye can only focus on one thing at a time, even young eyes. While the aperture does help with the depth of field, it cannot overcome the limitations of the eye. You have to check the alignment of the front and rear sights before finalizing your aim, but final focus must only be on the front sight. The target will be blurry.
If it is not, then there is no way for you to know exactly where you are pointing the rifle. This is one of the most important things for you to make sure you do every shot, and one that will allow your scores to progress at a faster rate. Good luck.
SFC Lance Hopper
http://www.odcmp.org/0907/default.asp?page=USAMU_SIGHTPICTURE
What Sight Picture Is Best For You?
By SSG Tobie Tomlinson, USAMU Service Rifle Team Member
Which is correct? There are a myriad of sight picture options that shooters have used to great effect over the years. The sight picture that allows you to consistently shoot the smallest group, with a minimal shift in zeros, is the correct one. In the next few paragraphs we will explore a few of the more commonly used sight picture options. Remember, for any shooter to be successful, consistent sight picture must be complemented by front sight focus and sight alignment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXA522arBo0&t=84s
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https://thecmp.org/training-tech/shooting-tips-from-the-usamu-service-rifle-team/usamu-faqs-equipment-and-ammunition/
Q: Sir: Thanks to you and the whole team for your articles on highpower shooting. This is my first year shooting and I am really enjoying it. I shoot both a match rifle and an AR15 Armalite service rifle. I am 52 years old. I shoot right-handed and use my right eye for aiming. I require corrective lenses for far sightedness, and this year I got bi-focal glasses for shooting. The lower lens for reading the scorebook, and the upper part of the lens provides clear focus on the front sight post thanks to my eye doctor.
I am using the smallest aperture for the rear NM sight, 0.043. While this helps improve my depth of field over the three larger apertures I have, I still have trouble getting good focus on both the front sight and the target at 600 yards (I have less of a problem at 200 and 300 yards). An experienced shooter suggested an even smaller aperture would improve the depth of field at 600. Do you agree, and if so, where is a source for a smaller aperture for my NM sight? Is there another type of insert for my NM sight that would improve the focus and keep the rifle legal for service rifle competition?
Looking forward to your response, and thanks again for your great service to shooting sports.
Keith H.
A: Mr. H
You brought up a point that many new shooters have difficulty understanding. The only thing that should be in focus is the front sight. The human eye can only focus on one thing at a time, even young eyes. While the aperture does help with the depth of field, it cannot overcome the limitations of the eye. You have to check the alignment of the front and rear sights before finalizing your aim, but final focus must only be on the front sight. The target will be blurry.
If it is not, then there is no way for you to know exactly where you are pointing the rifle. This is one of the most important things for you to make sure you do every shot, and one that will allow your scores to progress at a faster rate. Good luck.
SFC Lance Hopper
http://www.odcmp.org/0907/default.asp?page=USAMU_SIGHTPICTURE
What Sight Picture Is Best For You?
By SSG Tobie Tomlinson, USAMU Service Rifle Team Member
Which is correct? There are a myriad of sight picture options that shooters have used to great effect over the years. The sight picture that allows you to consistently shoot the smallest group, with a minimal shift in zeros, is the correct one. In the next few paragraphs we will explore a few of the more commonly used sight picture options. Remember, for any shooter to be successful, consistent sight picture must be complemented by front sight focus and sight alignment.
TLDR (at least not all). I don’t shoot service rifle nor have any interest. Understand front sight focus with irons. Cool. In the end of the day, you want to focus on the red dot, you do you. Not here to try to convince anyone one way or really care what anyone does as long as they do it safely.
Stick with what you believe. Others will progress.
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TLDR (at least not all). I don’t shoot service rifle nor have any interest. Understand front sight focus with irons. Cool. In the end of the day, you want to focus on the red dot, you do you. Not here to try to convince anyone one way or really care what anyone does as long as they do it safely.
Stick with what you believe. Others will progress.
Funny how you people work on the forums. Go look up so and so. OK. I did and read it. Posted parts of articles for you to read and you didn't read it. I searched for "TLDR" to understand what it meant. In my opinion, it should stand for TFLTR.
I've read and watched Zins opinions on handgun shooting with a dot. Don't work for me. I've also listened to Gunny Roxburgh for rifle shooting and his points don't work for me either. I shot better on both pistols with red dots (bullseye) and rifle with a 4x dot by focusing on the dot. Tighter groups overall. In the end, you can drop names all you want but its just you and the target. The only consistent advice is the mental aspect and environmental considerations from most shooters I've shot with and received coaching from. Some mechanical aspects work for me some don't. Every person is not built the same. Lanny Basham's book "With Winning in Mind" I've read more over than the USAMU guide.
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I've read and watched Zins opinions on handgun shooting with a dot. Don't work for me. I've also listened to Gunny Roxborough for rifle shooting and his points don't work for me either. I shot better on both pistols with red dots (bullseye) and rifle with a 4x dot by focusing on the dot. Tighter groups overall. In the end, you can drop names all you want but its just you and the target. The only consistent advice is the mental aspect and environmental considerations from most shooters I've shot with and received coaching from. Some mechanical aspects work for me some don't.
Cool. I read Winning in the Wind and others for FClass and long range & precision rifle. Copy all on mental aspect and others. Agree.
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I "suggest" that you calling a pistol your concealed carry doesn't have any meaning in this context. If you can't get to it in a pinch, it might as well not exist.
Maybe coin a new term? Perhaps "Out-of-State Carry (OSC)'? That's pretty much what carry pistols were for those of us who carried them while on travel to the mainland. The big differrence is it was still a viable home defense option here when not traveling.
Good point.
Nobody here breaks the law.
Even though it is a violation of your rights.
:shaka:
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Shot the 43x/EPS Carry combo today. Still getting used to the micro pistol grip. The grip length on the 43x does help though. I’ll have to shoot more timed against the 17.5/EPS and Acro setups. Overall like the EPS. Plan to shoot the 17.5/EPS in carry optics soon, and might try the 43x as well.
Shot variety of courses of fire. Bill drills, FAST, etc. Shot a little on USPSA reduced size targets, but don’t know if I like those yet.
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Shot the 43x/EPS Carry combo today. Still getting used to the micro pistol grip. The grip length on the 43x does help though. I’ll have to shoot more timed against the 17.5/EPS and Acro setups. Overall like the EPS. Plan to shoot the 17.5/EPS in carry optics soon, and might try the 43x as well.
Shot variety of courses of fire. Bill drills, FAST, etc. Shot a little on USPSA decided size targets, but don’t know if I like those yet.
How far are those targets?
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. Still getting used to the micro pistol grip.
TWSS
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Funny how you people work on the forums. Go look up so and so. OK. I did and read it. Posted parts of articles for you to read and you didn't read it. I searched for "TLDR" to understand what it meant. In my opinion, it should stand for TFLTR.
I've read and watched Zins opinions on handgun shooting with a dot. Don't work for me. I've also listened to Gunny Roxburgh for rifle shooting and his points don't work for me either. I shot better on both pistols with red dots (bullseye) and rifle with a 4x dot by focusing on the dot. Tighter groups overall. In the end, you can drop names all you want but its just you and the target. The only consistent advice is the mental aspect and environmental considerations from most shooters I've shot with and received coaching from. Some mechanical aspects work for me some don't. Every person is not built the same. Lanny Basham's book "With Winning in Mind" I've read more over than the USAMU guide.
I opened the link prior to your quote, and that was lengthy. Was just saying it was long and didn't read it all before replying, so may have missed something you were trying to say. . .
I "dropped a name" of AMU shooter since you appear to have held that group in high regard.
Great that you found a method of shooting tight groups that works for you and your chosen style and shooting interests.
How far are those targets?
Close. . . not where atmospherics, wind, spin drift, etc matter. . .
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TWSS
If it works, it works. . .
I shot the qual course of fire yesterday with the 43x with half par times, just to see. Tried to post the target here, but getting errors. :(
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Back in the day we used to design all our own courses of fire.
This thread makes me think it might be fun to design an action pistol stage where you intentionally obscure your sights.
It would be a simulation of catastrophic failure of electronic and/or iron sights.
It does happen.
In fact, you could design a whole match centered around gun failures.
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Back in the day we used to design all our own courses of fire.
This thread makes me think it might be fun to design an action pistol stage where you intentionally obscure your sights.
It would be a simulation of catastrophic failure of electronic and/or iron sights.
It does happen.
In fact, you could design a whole match centered around gun failures.
There are groups that already do that, or used to. Not a match though. Sometimes happens inadvertently, like when an optic or battery goes down, but that's a good topic for a separate thread. . .
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Back in the day we used to design all our own courses of fire.
This thread makes me think it might be fun to design an action pistol stage where you intentionally obscure your sights.
It would be a simulation of catastrophic failure of electronic and/or iron sights.
It does happen.
In fact, you could design a whole match centered around gun failures.
If KHSC would allow it now days.
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There are groups that already do that, or used to. Not a match though. Sometimes happens inadvertently, like when an optic or battery goes down, but that's a good topic for a separate thread. . .
My RDS went down multiple times on my AR. Which was good becuase I got to practice flipping up the back ups to finish the exercise. I kind of want things like this to happen, so I can get unpredicted reps in real time. Which is why I'm not a fan of 1R1. When I practice reloads, I put random amount of rounds into the mag, this way I'm not counting.
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My RDS went down multiple times on my AR. Which was good becuase I got to practice flipping up the back ups to finish the exercise. I kind of want things like this to happen, so I can get unpredicted reps in real time. Which is why I'm not a fan of 1R1. When I practice reloads, I put random amount of rounds into the mag, this way I'm not counting.
Separate topic, but you can setup double feeds as well. In a SB a LONNNGGG time ago, your partner has to setup your mags. General intent was 2 randomly spaced casings inserted to simulate double feed to occur randomly in a COF. My partner happened to put like 4-5 in one mag. . . ended up being during the portion of the COF where I was at the bottom of the VTAC. . . evil. . . I could hear them laughing. . . :grrr: ;D
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Not sure reloads have anything to do with red dots.
I've never had a RD stop working. I make sure to turn them off when in the safe, and I replace the batteries once a year. For the AimPoint PRO, it was a 2-year schedule.
In the grand scheme of things, batteries are a cheap, expendable item. If you're waiting until it stops working it so you can save a dollar, you're setting yourself up for a visit from Mr. Murphy.
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Not sure reloads have anything to do with red dots.
I've never had a RD stop working. I make sure to turn them off when in the safe, and I replace the batteries once a year. For the AimPoint PRO, it was a 2-year schedule.
In the grand scheme of things, batteries are a cheap, expendable item. If you're waiting until it stops working it so you can save a dollar, you're setting yourself up for a visit from Mr. Murphy.
There’s also quality in batteries. And prob how long said battery was on the shelf.
A buddy has their battery die when on the range recently. It was Holosun that he bought new recently. I would also expect the battery to be good, but no idea how long the battery was on the shelves at Holosun (or whichever company).
But yeah, best to change regularly. I have battery meters, but even those aren’t super reliable indicators.
But, if you’re like CMO, you’re proud when the optic fails and can experience it. ;D
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There’s also quality in batteries. And prob how long said battery was on the shelf.
A buddy has their battery die when on the range recently. It was Holosun that he bought new recently. I would also expect the battery to be good, but no idea how long the battery was on the shelves at Holosun (or whichever company).
But yeah, best to change regularly. I have battery meters, but even those aren’t super reliable indicators.
But, if you’re like CMO, you’re proud when the optic fails and can experience it. ;D
Seems like something turning the dot "off" could accomplish.
:thumbsup: :shaka:
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Seems like something turning the dot "off" could accomplish.
:thumbsup: :shaka:
That's what the poors do. The guys with buku dollahs purposely buy dead or close to dead batteries. :rofl:
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There’s also quality in batteries. And prob how long said battery was on the shelf.
A buddy has their battery die when on the range recently. It was Holosun that he bought new recently. I would also expect the battery to be good, but no idea how long the battery was on the shelves at Holosun (or whichever company).
But yeah, best to change regularly. I have battery meters, but even those aren’t super reliable indicators.
But, if you’re like CMO, you’re proud when the optic fails and can experience it. ;D
Another possibility is upside down battery.
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Red dots are the perfect tools for short attention span shooters. If I was in a situation that close I'd just run. I hate running but I run 9-12 miles a week because I am fat. In a situation, I'd run get to a "safe place" call 911 and whistle for my big dog.
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Another possibility is upside down battery.
This happened to me as the tray is very snug for my Holosun. So when I popped it out, IDK which way the batter was because it flipped like a coin.
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Another possibility is upside down battery.
Someone asked him that. :rofl:
He reported it was working previously and just went out. Did some research and seems like some reports of bending contacts and short initial battery life. I use all Duracell or Panasonic batteries, and will change if it comes with another brand.
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This happened to me as the tray is very snug for my Holosun. So when I popped it out, IDK which way the batter was because it flipped like a coin.
You have a 50/50 chance of being ok, or test yourself as if the dot went down. Flip the battery before every course of fire.
That reminds me, watch the screw on the battery door. I was in a class where two guys lost the screw for the battery door. Range ground was all rocks, so no chance to find.
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Separate topic, but you can setup double feeds as well. In a SB a LONNNGGG time ago, your partner has to setup your mags. General intent was 2 randomly spaced casings inserted to simulate double feed to occur randomly in a COF. My partner happened to put like 4-5 in one mag. . . ended up being during the portion of the COF where I was at the bottom of the VTAC. . . evil. . . I could hear them laughing. . . :grrr: ;D
We do one called "F" your buddy where buddy loads mags and tosses in a couple snap caps randomly and inserts in your holstered firearm.
Tap and rack dance.
Some "buddys" will fill the whole mag with dummy's, but after 3 or more, I automatically change mags
I like iron sights but I (or should I say my eyes) finally broke down for the dot on my HDS.
G19 with light and holosun, it does not conceal well on my slim :rofl: figure for CC.
I do well with my smaller frames from concealed but usually don't go anywhere, maybe town once or twice a month and feel the CC need more when returning home and entering my house.
My range bag always has extra battery's for all equipment that requires them, including ears, but I've given them more to others than needed myself.
Our qaul times are all under 2.5 up to 7 yards (one guy under 1.5 but he's an alien), around 5 sec @ 10 yds and a hair over that from 15yds (alien is faster).
USUALLY 100% or 10 points off if trying to push it.
Have not shot test with HD gun yet but will this weekend.
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We do one called "F" your buddy where buddy loads mags and tosses in a couple snap caps randomly and inserts in your holstered firearm.
Tap and rack dance.
Some "buddys" will fill the whole mag with dummy's, but after 3 or more, I automatically change mags
I like iron sights but I (or should I say my eyes) finally broke down for the dot on my HDS.
G19 with light and holosun, it does not conceal well on my slim :rofl: figure for CC.
I do well with my smaller frames from concealed but usually don't go anywhere, maybe town once or twice a month and feel the CC need more when returning home and entering my house.
My range bag always has extra battery's for all equipment that requires them, including ears, but I've given them more to others than needed myself.
Our qaul times are all under 2.5 up to 7 yards (one guy under 1.5 but he's an alien), around 5 sec @ 10 yds and a hair over that from 15yds (alien is faster).
USUALLY 100% or 10 points off if trying to push it.
Have not shot test with HD gun yet but will this weekend.
Which Holosun did you end up going with?
I am going to try to shoot the CCW qual again this weekend with Glock 17.4 with irons and maybe my M&P with irons, just to try.
Does the alien's name start with D? ;D
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Which Holosun did you end up going with? 407
Does the alien's name start with D? ;D
Yeah, but I call him "Otto"
I think the last time we were with you was with BB and while I was at truck checking equipment, HPD showed up for "Someone firing full "Otto" :rofl: :rofl:
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Re. " F your buddy" drill.
There are 2 conflicting philosophies in the pistol world in the event of a misfire.
Tap, rack, bang -in tactical training.
Or
Stop and keep the pistol pointed in a safe direction and wait a few seconds in the event of a hang fire.
What to do?
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re:Otto
Ya. Those were some great range days.
For your CC, what light? Dot is 407K, right? I have CC'ed a 17 with X300U/T and Acro. I've lost quite a bit of weight since you last saw me, but still not "trim" like you. I typically cc a 17.5 with EPS and TLR7A.
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Ya. Those were some great range days.
For your CC, what light? Dot is 407K, right? I have CC'ed a 17 with X300U/T and Acro. I've lost quite a bit of weight since you last saw me, but still not "trim" like you. I typically cc a 17.5 with EPS and TLR7A.
No light on CC, I don't travel out at night.
Besides, with my trim figure, would be hard to conceal. :rofl:
Working the G43 and S & W Airweight
TLR 7 on HD G19 with Holosun 407.
Yeah, saw a recent pic of "less" of you, bet that feels better, but now you can't use your belly to convert your IWB holster into a level 2 holster. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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No light on CC, I don't travel out at night.
Besides, with my trim figure, would be hard to conceal. :rofl:
Working the G43 and S & W Airweight
TLR 7 on HD G19 with Holosun 407.
Yeah, saw a recent pic of "less" of you, bet that feels better, but now you can't use your belly to convert your IWB holster into a level 2 holster. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
With my 19 or 17 with TLR 7A, the holster bulk isn't noticable, since it's on the grip side of the barrel. I also have a 43x for CCW, but no light rail version.
Feels good overall. Now there's other methods of "replicating level 2" ;D
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I got a TLR7 on my Glock 48. Doesn't add much to the size.
But like night sights, weapon mounted lights have a relatively small set of circumstances where they would be used. And majority of civilian CCWers don't train the proper use of them.
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Trained on a VTAC barrier with a red dot yesterday. It is so much easier and can be more accurate and quicker as your eye can be slightly out of alignment with the bore or the gun rotated. Like rotating the gun 90 degrees. It can be done with irons, but more difficult and slower to do.
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Trained on a VTAC barrier with a red dot yesterday. It is so much easier and can be more accurate and quicker as your eye can be slightly out of alignment with the bore or the gun rotated. Like rotating the gun 90 degrees. It can be done with irons, but more difficult and slower to do.
I've noticed the positional shooting aspect, especially with red dots on rifle. Somewhat with handguns. One thing I did notice with VTAC is watch out for the height over bore. Didn't put holes in the barrier, but there are plenty holes in barriers that have been "signed".
I got a TLR7 on my Glock 48. Doesn't add much to the size.
But like night sights, weapon mounted lights have a relatively small set of circumstances where they would be used. And majority of civilian CCWers don't train the proper use of them.
Not sure if I mentioned in this thread or training thread, but RDS with no/low light and using white light is one aspect where RDS is really helpful. As for training, yeah, not many opportunities in Hawaii.
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Didn't put holes in the barrier, but there are plenty holes in barriers that have been "signed".
No lie, get your sig all over the wood. :rofl:
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No lie, get your sig all over the wood. :rofl:
No, but IIRC I was there when you or Mrs. CMO had to sign the NEW VTAC barrier. . . ;D
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Trying the CHPWS Comp RDS on a Glock 34.4. Had a GC for slide milling for CHPWS, so decided to mill my 34.4 that was sitting around. I bought it for shooting USPSA Production, but have been shooting Carry Optics, as well as the vast majority of my training and classes are with handguns with RDS. CHPWS had a sale when milling the slide, so decided to give the Comp a try since I was able to get it for a very good price.
CHPWS Comp - CHPWS' version/close on the Trijicon SRO (same footprint). Took it to the range and shot a little over 100 rounds to zero the dot and general testing with the new slide. Overall, impressions of the dot are ok. I like the 3 MOA, but will see how the brightness works out. It was a mostly sunny day, but overcast. The dot on the max setting I think was ok. I would prefer to have 1-2 higher settings on a clear day. I'll shoot it in a match and see and might be ok. The other two guns that I've been shooting matches with have an Acro and EPS and they have higher settings. I'll also check the battery, to test if that helps. Beyond the brightness, I think the Comp is pretty good. The window is huge and I can see why many folks like the SRO for competition, as well as other uses. The Comp has a slight blueish/greenish tint to the lens, which is common for the RMR/SRO and I don't notice it when shooting. The lens is clear and maybe an ever so slight magnification. The elevation and windage adjustments have distinct clicks, but does need a tiny flat head screwdriver. The Comp comes with two tools/keys. One flat head and one torx for the battery compartment. I opted for the Torx screw option when doing the slide milling, and didn't notice what the standard screws are.
Slide Milling - Milled for the Comp with "Zev posts" and Torx screw option. Also added diagonal forward serrations and went with the nitride finish. The estimated turn around time was 4 weeks for the milling and another 2-4 weeks for the nitride. Total time from shipping to return was a little less than 4 weeks. Communication with CHPWS was great with both questions prior to the work, and upon receipt of the slide to verify options prior to starting the work. The milling seems spot on and like the attention to detail on the serrations where the Glock logos are on the left side of the slide. The serrations have clean edges, which I really like. The nitride finish is really clean and even, with a slight texture, which I also like. I also order their low profile BUIS. With the RDS, the very tip of the fiber optic front sight is visible in the notch of the rear sight. I would have preferred the RDS be a touch lower, but it's fine where it sits.
I was a little hesitant sending the gun to CHPWS as they've had mixed reviews. Both for slide milling and other products/services. Overall, I am very happy with the slide milling and "ok" with the Comp RDS.
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interesting that they can sell enough volume to justify the development costs
and there are so many different models...
Trying the CHPWS Comp RDS on a Glock 34.4. Had a GC for slide milling for CHPWS, so decided to mill my 34.4 that was sitting around. I bought it for shooting USPSA Production, but have been shooting Carry Optics, as well as the vast majority of my training and classes are with handguns with RDS. CHPWS had a sale when milling the slide, so decided to give the Comp a try since I was able to get it for a very good price.
CHPWS Comp - CHPWS' version/close on the Trijicon SRO (same footprint). Took it to the range and shot a little over 100 rounds to zero the dot and general testing with the new slide. Overall, impressions of the dot are ok. I like the 3 MOA, but will see how the brightness works out. It was a mostly sunny day, but overcast. The dot on the max setting I think was ok. I would prefer to have 1-2 higher settings on a clear day. I'll shoot it in a match and see and might be ok. The other two guns that I've been shooting matches with have an Acro and EPS and they have higher settings. I'll also check the battery, to test if that helps. Beyond the brightness, I think the Comp is pretty good. The window is huge and I can see why many folks like the SRO for competition, as well as other uses. The Comp has a slight blueish/greenish tint to the lens, which is common for the RMR/SRO and I don't notice it when shooting. The lens is clear and maybe an ever so slight magnification. The elevation and windage adjustments have distinct clicks, but does need a tiny flat head screwdriver. The Comp comes with two tools/keys. One flat head and one torx for the battery compartment. I opted for the Torx screw option when doing the slide milling, and didn't notice what the standard screws are.
Slide Milling - Milled for the Comp with "Zev posts" and Torx screw option. Also added diagonal forward serrations and went with the nitride finish. The estimated turn around time was 4 weeks for the milling and another 2-4 weeks for the nitride. Total time from shipping to return was a little less than 4 weeks. Communication with CHPWS was great with both questions prior to the work, and upon receipt of the slide to verify options prior to starting the work. The milling seems spot on and like the attention to detail on the serrations where the Glock logos are on the left side of the slide. The serrations have clean edges, which I really like. The nitride finish is really clean and even, with a slight texture, which I also like. I also order their low profile BUIS. With the RDS, the very tip of the fiber optic front sight is visible in the notch of the rear sight. I would have preferred the RDS be a touch lower, but it's fine where it sits.
I was a little hesitant sending the gun to CHPWS as they've had mixed reviews. Both for slide milling and other products/services. Overall, I am very happy with the slide milling and "ok" with the Comp RDS.
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interesting that they can sell enough volume to justify the development costs
and there are so many different models...
Sarcasm? Or serious?
I didn't research all, but believe a few (if not all) are not developed by CHPWS. I vaguely recall discussion of some are straight clones or some are a previously "developed" RDS and slight tweaks to CHPWS "specs" or preferences (or something like that).
I was originally planning on either SRO or 507Comp, but the with the sale pricing of the CHPWS Comp and (mostly) good reviews, I decided to give it a try. If the dot brightness ends up bothering me, then I'll likely try the SRO on this pistol (hopefully the tolerances allow) and use the CHPWS on a .22 lr rifle or something.
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Trying the CHPWS Comp RDS on a Glock 34.4. Had a GC for slide milling for CHPWS, so decided to mill my 34.4 that was sitting around. I bought it for shooting USPSA Production, but have been shooting Carry Optics, as well as the vast majority of my training and classes are with handguns with RDS. CHPWS had a sale when milling the slide, so decided to give the Comp a try since I was able to get it for a very good price.
CHPWS Comp - CHPWS' version/close on the Trijicon SRO (same footprint). Took it to the range and shot a little over 100 rounds to zero the dot and general testing with the new slide. Overall, impressions of the dot are ok. I like the 3 MOA, but will see how the brightness works out. It was a mostly sunny day, but overcast. The dot on the max setting I think was ok. I would prefer to have 1-2 higher settings on a clear day. I'll shoot it in a match and see and might be ok. The other two guns that I've been shooting matches with have an Acro and EPS and they have higher settings. I'll also check the battery, to test if that helps. Beyond the brightness, I think the Comp is pretty good. The window is huge and I can see why many folks like the SRO for competition, as well as other uses. The Comp has a slight blueish/greenish tint to the lens, which is common for the RMR/SRO and I don't notice it when shooting. The lens is clear and maybe an ever so slight magnification. The elevation and windage adjustments have distinct clicks, but does need a tiny flat head screwdriver. The Comp comes with two tools/keys. One flat head and one torx for the battery compartment. I opted for the Torx screw option when doing the slide milling, and didn't notice what the standard screws are.
Slide Milling - Milled for the Comp with "Zev posts" and Torx screw option. Also added diagonal forward serrations and went with the nitride finish. The estimated turn around time was 4 weeks for the milling and another 2-4 weeks for the nitride. Total time from shipping to return was a little less than 4 weeks. Communication with CHPWS was great with both questions prior to the work, and upon receipt of the slide to verify options prior to starting the work. The milling seems spot on and like the attention to detail on the serrations where the Glock logos are on the left side of the slide. The serrations have clean edges, which I really like. The nitride finish is really clean and even, with a slight texture, which I also like. I also order their low profile BUIS. With the RDS, the very tip of the fiber optic front sight is visible in the notch of the rear sight. I would have preferred the RDS be a touch lower, but it's fine where it sits.
I was a little hesitant sending the gun to CHPWS as they've had mixed reviews. Both for slide milling and other products/services. Overall, I am very happy with the slide milling and "ok" with the Comp RDS.
If you're milling the slide, why not mill it for the optic that you're going to use? I mean, adding a plate adds extra cost, stuff that can go wrong, and slight increase in bore height.
Are Trijicon SRO, RMR, etc...diff footprints? I never looked into this or Holosun's as I only have 1 RDS, so it's moot for us.
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If you're milling the slide, why not mill it for the optic that you're going to use? I mean, adding a plate adds extra cost, stuff that can go wrong, and slight increase in bore height.
Are Trijicon SRO, RMR, etc...diff footprints? I never looked into this or Holosun's as I only have 1 RDS, so it's moot for us.
:facepalm:
I did mill the slide for the RDS I planned on using. . . the Comp. . . The Comp also has the same footprint as the SRO and RMR. While I didn't intend to switch, I did have footprint flexibility in mind.
This pistol was mostly a try/project gun since I had the credit with CHPWS. I sent another 17.5 slide for RCR off to another company. That one is more "purpose driven".
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serious
i guess i should have added a question if there was an OEM involved
Sarcasm? Or serious?
I didn't research all, but believe a few (if not all) are not developed by CHPWS. I vaguely recall discussion of some are straight clones or some are a previously "developed" RDS and slight tweaks to CHPWS "specs" or preferences (or something like that).
I was originally planning on either SRO or 507Comp, but the with the sale pricing of the CHPWS Comp and (mostly) good reviews, I decided to give it a try. If the dot brightness ends up bothering me, then I'll likely try the SRO on this pistol (hopefully the tolerances allow) and use the CHPWS on a .22 lr rifle or something.
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please show me where he said he was using a plate...
If you're milling the slide, why not mill it for the optic that you're going to use? I mean, adding a plate adds extra cost, stuff that can go wrong, and slight increase in bore height.
Are Trijicon SRO, RMR, etc...diff footprints? I never looked into this or Holosun's as I only have 1 RDS, so it's moot for us.
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serious
i guess i should have added a question if there was an OEM involved
I vaguely recall a YT video mentioning the producer(s) of some of the CHPWS offering. It may have been the Duty version though.
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Shot the 17.5 with EPS setup this past weekend in a match. I used the highest dot intensity. I probably could have tried the second to highest setting, but didn't want to have to adjust mid-stage. It was very sunny at the start of the match and stayed that way most of the day. I don't recall having to use the highest dot intensity setting in previous range days before, including when I did the CCW quals with this particular setup. I also checked the battery on the CHPWS Comp, maybe these dots intensity ranges are on the lower side. I recall the guns with RMR having some brightness settings in reserve. I think same/similar with ACRO, where I didn’t need the RDS on the highest setting. Not a big deal, but just recall having dot intensity levels in reserve.
Thinking of testing the Holosun 507 Comp on my 17.5 MOS, which currently has the ACRO P2. I was thinking of getting a 34.5 as dedicated competition pistol as well. Where I’ll have mostly Gen 5. I still have a range of Gen 3 and Gen 4, which are fine. But would prefer 17.5 and 34.5 for consistency.
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so many grocks
and i don't own any...
Shot the 17.5 with EPS setup this past weekend in a match. I used the highest dot intensity. I probably could have tried the second to highest setting, but didn't want to have to adjust mid-stage. It was very sunny at the start of the match and stayed that way most of the day. I don't recall having to use the highest dot intensity setting in previous range days before, including when I did the CCW quals with this particular setup. I also checked the battery on the CHPWS Comp, maybe these dots intensity ranges are on the lower side. I recall the guns with RMR having some brightness settings in reserve. I think same/similar with ACRO, where I didn’t need the RDS on the highest setting. Not a big deal, but just recall having dot intensity levels in reserve.
Thinking of testing the Holosun 507 Comp on my 17.5 MOS, which currently has the ACRO P2. I was thinking of getting a 34.5 as dedicated competition pistol as well. Where I’ll have mostly Gen 5. I still have a range of Gen 3 and Gen 4, which are fine. But would prefer 17.5 and 34.5 for consistency.
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Shot the 17.5 with EPS setup this past weekend in a match. I used the highest dot intensity. I probably could have tried the second to highest setting, but didn't want to have to adjust mid-stage. It was very sunny at the start of the match and stayed that way most of the day. I don't recall having to use the highest dot intensity setting in previous range days before, including when I did the CCW quals with this particular setup. I also checked the battery on the CHPWS Comp, maybe these dots intensity ranges are on the lower side. I recall the guns with RMR having some brightness settings in reserve. I think same/similar with ACRO, where I didn’t need the RDS on the highest setting. Not a big deal, but just recall having dot intensity levels in reserve.
We are heading into summer so the sun will be a bit brighter now which could explain the difference. Same with time of day. It may seem the same brightness, but the eye is good at adjusting to keep what we see bright.
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Anyone using the rmr hd with auto light sensor?
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We are heading into summer so the sun will be a bit brighter now which could explain the difference. Same with time of day. It may seem the same brightness, but the eye is good at adjusting to keep what we see bright.
Yeah. I have had the EPS for over a year, and shot it in a class in summer time in Ohio and AZ. Maybe not quite as UV/bright as Hawaii. I just don't remember having my RMR on that high setting previously, including Hawaii summer time. So am a$$uming just the dot range. I'll get to test it more as plan to shoot matches often. Additionally, when I was checking the dot pre-match, it's in the safe area (side berm). I do a quick check of the dot prior to the stage, but typically to verify it's on. Not adjust brightness.
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so many grocks
and i don't own any...
You should try it. . . you might like it
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guns scare me...
You should try it. . . you might like it
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Shot the CHPWS Comp in a pistol match recently and it was good. The brightness was fine, and I think better in a way with a more "refined" dot. I think I had been shooting with other guns/dots brighter than needed, even on blooming side of intensity level. The lower intensity ended up being fine and to a certain extent maybe allowed finer shot placement/calling. I was originally worried about brightness when shooting with movement vice static, but didn't seem to be an issue with this particular setup. For my other dots that can be brighter (I think the ACRO P2), will try purposely setting intensity lower to match intenstify level I was shooting with the CHPWS Comp.
Overall, I think doing a lot more dry fire recently, as well as taking some tips from other friends that compete and a structured training plan seems to be helping. Picked up some drill from recent classes, and refinements from tips from those instructors in follow-up. Working a lot on trigger control/manipulations, esp mimicking more "realistic" slapping when shooting under stage pressures/stress.
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Shot with the 507 Comp in a couple of range sessions and in a match recently and overall liking it. I had hoped the brightness levels were higher than the CHPWS Comp, but seemed similar. Not a bad thing as it was fine in the match I shot. However, just prefer to have a couple of brightness levels higher available. It was clear and sunny for most of the match, and the 507 Comp on highest was fine.
I also have a different 17.5 with the RCR, and hope to shoot that setup soon, including eventually in a match. It's been a while since I've shot with the RMR, but vaguely recall the brightness levels such that it wasn't on the highest while shooting outdoors on a clear day.
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Shot a match with 507Comp green recently and initial assessment is mixed, but mostly positive. Zeroed in an indoor range and initial impression was meh. Next was pistol match on a relatively bright day. Overall, think I'm just so used to red dots. However, one observation is that I shot the match with the brightness with 2 levels in reserve. It was overcast that day, but there was times when the sun came out. I read or was told the eye picks up green better than red, so maybe that's what I'm seeing. Will be shooting this same setup hopefully at least twice over the next month.
Overall, liking the 507Comp, both red and green. Pricing is good and performance is excellent, both what I am experiencing personally and what I'm seeing from other shooters locally as well as online ratings/reviews. Definitely see the hype. Probably little large for CCW, but know many folks have the 507Comp on their CCW.
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Any trouble picking up the dot or notice any lag in shooting over irons?
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Any trouble picking up the dot or notice any lag in shooting over irons?
What distance(s) and what time(s) you looking for? Personally, in general no. If anything, I would say I need more time shooting irons again.
There are a bunch of videos on red dot slower than irons. I experienced that intially and is very common. There are a few (at least) schools of thought. At least from classes I took, training with friends, videos.
First is concept of index. Where repetition and put the dot where your eyes are focused. One main reason I've consolidated to primarily shooting Glock. I still have Sig, CZ, etc, but rarely shoot them. Messes me up, at least temporarily. There are many that can adjust with say minutes of dry draw/fire, but I can't. . . at least not yet.
Second is gross sight picture or acceptable confirmation. Are you trying to get the same level of target confirmation with your RDS at various distances? Are you truly doing that with irons? Or is say more "quick and dirty" sight pictures acceptable? Say at 3-5 yards. Backplate of gun, RDS window, top "line" of the optic body, etc. I read that there are courses dedicated to shooting with NO RDS or irons, but haven't seen videos or read/watched feedback from those who have taken those courses. Not saying that's good or bad, but interesting to at least test for my/ones self.