2aHawaii

General Topics => Political Discussion => Topic started by: ren on March 14, 2019, 02:59:56 PM

Title: if "climate change" is real
Post by: ren on March 14, 2019, 02:59:56 PM
Why is our Mayor and Governor being driven around town in a large SUV (not hybrid) ?
Title: Re: if "climate change" is real
Post by: tillamook on March 14, 2019, 03:24:02 PM
Pelosi's Gulfstream C20B burns 568 gallons an hour.  They only care what the little people need to do to "fix the climate" not the businesses or themselves which are doing +70% of the greenhouse gas emissions

How many private jet flights did our socialist leader Bernie take?
Title: Re: if "climate change" is real
Post by: hvybarrels on March 14, 2019, 09:32:05 PM
Climate change is real and progressives are prone to hypocrisy. The fact that they talk the talk while expecting everyone else (except themselves) to walk the walk is pure high grade skeptic fuel.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6605391/Glamorous-billionaire-dubbed-hypocrite.html

Title: Re: if "climate change" is real
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 15, 2019, 09:15:02 AM
How come no one is mentioning (media) how Ige signed onto the Paris Accord, even though they admitted it's a fraud.

Leo Decaprio is a huge supporter of this, but yet has a yacht and a chopper that takes him on board.  Nuthin to see here...
Title: Re: if "climate change" is real
Post by: Inspector on March 15, 2019, 07:45:14 PM
Stupidity knows no bounds.
Title: Re: if "climate change" is real
Post by: eyeeatingfish on March 18, 2019, 08:58:08 PM
Why is our Mayor and Governor being driven around town in a large SUV (not hybrid) ?

So if they drove around in a hybrid then you would conclude climate change is real?

Title: Re: if "climate change" is real
Post by: eyeeatingfish on March 18, 2019, 08:59:55 PM
Climate change is real and progressives are prone to hypocrisy. The fact that they talk the talk while expecting everyone else (except themselves) to walk the walk is pure high grade skeptic fuel.


Extremely good point. We cannot make scientific conclusions on the climate based on whether people are hypocrites or not.
Title: Re: if "climate change" is real
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 18, 2019, 10:10:54 PM
So if they drove around in a hybrid then you would conclude climate change is real?

Not the point.

If they drove hybrids, we could at least see they believe the things they are saying. 

Hypocritical behavior is a pretty good sign you're being scammed, or at the very least lied to.

Lead by example.
Title: Re: if "climate change" is real
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 19, 2019, 12:07:56 AM
Not the point.

If they drove hybrids, we could at least see they believe the things they are saying. 

Hypocritical behavior is a pretty good sign you're being scammed, or at the very least lied to.

Lead by example.
AOC bashing rideshare for taking jobs from cabs. Her staff spend a lot on uber.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: if "climate change" is real
Post by: eyeeatingfish on March 19, 2019, 08:24:07 PM
Not the point.

If they drove hybrids, we could at least see they believe the things they are saying. 

Hypocritical behavior is a pretty good sign you're being scammed, or at the very least lied to.

Lead by example.

Ideally yes, but realistically no.

I could have an obese doctor tell me I need to lose weight and even though he is being a hypocrite his medical advice is still sound.

Now if indeed they were lying to us we might expect to see hypocritical behavior however hypocritical behavior in and of itself is not conclusive evidence.

And on a side note, why would the governor and the mayor be in on some conspiracy to make us think climate change is a real danger?
Title: Re: if "climate change" is real
Post by: ren on March 19, 2019, 09:08:20 PM
So if they drove around in a hybrid then you would conclude climate change is real?
No.
I would take that as an example of LEADERSHIP  :grrr:
Title: Re: if "climate change" is real
Post by: ren on March 19, 2019, 09:17:49 PM
Climate change is real. I never experienced a place on Earth where climate never changed. In fact, I never experienced anything in life that hasn't changed.
Title: Re: if "climate change" is real
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 19, 2019, 09:55:57 PM
Ideally yes, but realistically no.

I could have an obese doctor tell me I need to lose weight and even though he is being a hypocrite his medical advice is still sound.

Now if indeed they were lying to us we might expect to see hypocritical behavior however hypocritical behavior in and of itself is not conclusive evidence.

And on a side note, why would the governor and the mayor be in on some conspiracy to make us think climate change is a real danger?

Your doctor isn't in a position to take your wealth by force and give it to a sham "Paris Accord" global wealth redistribution scheme.

You have the CHOICE to take your doctor's advice or not, and there are centuries of science backing up your doctor's advice including actual statistics that prove he's not just making shit up.


I don't do side notes.  Start another topic if you want to go off on another tangent.
Title: Re: if "climate change" is real
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 20, 2019, 09:26:03 AM
The UN has agreed that the Paris Acord does/did nothing and a fraud.  Trump was right again.

Now your doctor telling you to lose weight due to potential or current medical problems is based on science.  The healthiness of your doctor has no merit on what you do.  Neither can your doctor force you to lose weight or fine you if you don't.  You just die.  It's 100% up to you.  Compared to the Paris Acord, does anyone know how much money HI is putting into this since Ige signed on?
Title: Re: if "climate change" is real
Post by: eyeeatingfish on March 20, 2019, 09:23:57 PM
Your doctor isn't in a position to take your wealth by force and give it to a sham "Paris Accord" global wealth redistribution scheme.

You have the CHOICE to take your doctor's advice or not, and there are centuries of science backing up your doctor's advice including actual statistics that prove he's not just making shit up.


I don't do side notes.  Start another topic if you want to go off on another tangent.

And I would argue there is lots of science to show that climate chance is being influenced by our activity. However I don't imagine we will make much headway in settling that one.

This is on topic because I am agreeing that it is hypocritical of them and disagreeing with the assertion that it is all just a lie, that our governor and mayor are part of some vast conspiracy but just couldn't be bothered to change what car they drive.
Title: Re: if "climate change" is real
Post by: eyeeatingfish on March 20, 2019, 09:42:44 PM
The UN has agreed that the Paris Acord does/did nothing and a fraud.  Trump was right again.

Now your doctor telling you to lose weight due to potential or current medical problems is based on science.  The healthiness of your doctor has no merit on what you do.  Neither can your doctor force you to lose weight or fine you if you don't.  You just die.  It's 100% up to you.  Compared to the Paris Acord, does anyone know how much money HI is putting into this since Ige signed on?

Do you know why they are saying the Paris Climate Accords did nothing? Not because climate change was a lie but because the Paris Climate Accord never had any teeth and was voluntary. Pointing out how it has failed is actually just an argument for a stronger agreement with actual teeth.

I did go look for the alleged report in which the UN admitted it was a fraud but I couldn't find the document. I found multiple news sources that mentioned it but none provided a link.  I did find a story of one scientist saying it was a fraud however it was because it didn't do enough to make a difference. Presenting the characterization of the Paris Climate accords as a fraud and therefore man made climate change as a hoax is misrepresenting the facts of why he called it a fraud. Pointing out that it was a fraud is actually an argument for more strict regulation, not justifying a disbelief in climate change.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/dec/12/james-hansen-climate-change-paris-talks-fraud
Title: Re: if "climate change" is real
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 20, 2019, 10:14:35 PM
And I would argue there is lots of science to show that climate chance is being influenced by our activity. However I don't imagine we will make much headway in settling that one.

This is on topic because I am agreeing that it is hypocritical of them and disagreeing with the assertion that it is all just a lie, that our governor and mayor are part of some vast conspiracy but just couldn't be bothered to change what car they drive.

Then you're gullible. Just like they like you to be.
Title: Re: if "climate change" is real
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 20, 2019, 10:28:28 PM
Do you know why they are saying the Paris Climate Accords did nothing? Not because climate change was a lie but because the Paris Climate Accord never had any teeth and was voluntary. Pointing out how it has failed is actually just an argument for a stronger agreement with actual teeth.

I did go look for the alleged report in which the UN admitted it was a fraud but I couldn't find the document. I found multiple news sources that mentioned it but none provided a link.  I did find a story of one scientist saying it was a fraud however it was because it didn't do enough to make a difference. Presenting the characterization of the Paris Climate accords as a fraud and therefore man made climate change as a hoax is misrepresenting the facts of why he called it a fraud. Pointing out that it was a fraud is actually an argument for more strict regulation, not justifying a disbelief in climate change.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/dec/12/james-hansen-climate-change-paris-talks-fraud

Bullshit.  Which Liberal news channel fed you that line? Must have been programmed sometime after the meltdown over Trump pulling the US out of it.

Time mark 6:23 - Al Gore admits that if all targets are reached by every country in the Paris Accord (194 if we'd stayed), it still won't fix the Climate Change problem. Gore them obfuscates into a litany of wonderful progress China and others have made.  Progress?  If I'm painting a line around the circumference of the Globe knowing full well I'll never be able to do it, what "progress" am I making if I get 50%, 60% or more painted? It'll never be completed, therefore no amount can be labeled as "progress".  Progress means "closer to your goal".  A goal that can never be reached cannot be measured for progress. It's the antithesis of progress. it's futility.

Al Gore said nothing about the Accord not having teeth or being voluntary as a problem. It's all about "sending a message" (and making the people on the receiving end of the scam wealthier).

https://youtu.be/FB-0V9j5vyo
Title: Re: if "climate change" is real
Post by: hvybarrels on March 20, 2019, 11:42:03 PM
Who wants to buy a beach house cheap?

https://www.civilbeat.org/2019/03/buyer-beware-oceanfront-homes-keep-going-up-despite-rising-seas/#comments
Title: Re: if "climate change" is real
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 21, 2019, 11:26:27 AM
Who wants to buy a beach house cheap?

https://www.civilbeat.org/2019/03/buyer-beware-oceanfront-homes-keep-going-up-despite-rising-seas/#comments

Can see the same people who bought homes in Puna (volcano).
Title: Re: if "climate change" is real
Post by: groveler on March 21, 2019, 02:42:20 PM
Can see the same people who bought homes in Puna (volcano).
I never owned a Beach house, but I owned better, a 45 foot sailboat.
A lot more work, but If you want to live on the water it can't be beat.
Plus if you don't like the government, just put up the sails and tell
them to EFF off.  Sadly I no longer have my boat, but I had years
of memories of Government free life.
Title: Re: if "climate change" is real
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 21, 2019, 10:04:12 PM
https://youtu.be/X8Xkwb8EnFY
Title: Re: if "climate change" is real
Post by: ren on March 22, 2019, 10:35:40 AM
I'd like to plant some nice tall trees in my yard. Problem is roots and some poison I laid down. I dont want roots to destroy my foundation and wall. Maybe fake tree? Anyone sell?
Title: Re: if "climate change" is real
Post by: Q on March 22, 2019, 02:13:48 PM
.
Title: Re: if "climate change" is real
Post by: eyeeatingfish on March 22, 2019, 09:07:12 PM
Then you're gullible. Just like they like you to be.

Maybe you're the one who is gullible to a not very good conspiracy theory.

I will stick with the science on this one, thank you.
Title: Re: if "climate change" is real
Post by: eyeeatingfish on March 22, 2019, 09:10:40 PM
Bullshit.  Which Liberal news channel fed you that line? Must have been programmed sometime after the meltdown over Trump pulling the US out of it.

Time mark 6:23 - Al Gore admits that if all targets are reached by every country in the Paris Accord (194 if we'd stayed), it still won't fix the Climate Change problem. Gore them obfuscates into a litany of wonderful progress China and others have made.  Progress?  If I'm painting a line around the circumference of the Globe knowing full well I'll never be able to do it, what "progress" am I making if I get 50%, 60% or more painted? It'll never be completed, therefore no amount can be labeled as "progress".  Progress means "closer to your goal".  A goal that can never be reached cannot be measured for progress. It's the antithesis of progress. it's futility.

Al Gore said nothing about the Accord not having teeth or being voluntary as a problem. It's all about "sending a message" (and making the people on the receiving end of the scam wealthier).


I don't listen to Al Gore.

I know from other sources that the Paris Accords had no teeth and were voluntary. Are you claiming that these statements are not accurate?

Title: Re: if "climate change" is real
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 23, 2019, 01:27:50 AM
I don't listen to Al Gore.

I know from other sources that the Paris Accords had no teeth and were voluntary. Are you claiming that these statements are not accurate?

Since you're not providing sources to back up your claim, I can only assume you have none.
Title: Re: if "climate change" is real
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 23, 2019, 01:31:29 AM
I don't listen to Al Gore.

I know from other sources that the Paris Accords had no teeth and were voluntary. Are you claiming that these statements are not accurate?

You might not think you listen to Al Gore, but the Climate Change BS you have been posting here started with him and is being regurgitated everywhere.

You're posting Al Gore's talking points whether you know it or not.  It doesn't;t take much time (for anyone who cares where they get their "science") to find out what Gore is putting out there.  Chances are, it's exactly what you're seeing wherever you get your info.
Title: Re: if "climate change" is real
Post by: ren on March 23, 2019, 07:36:53 AM
I rode my bike for 3 days this week and reduced my carbon footprint. What have you done?
Title: Re: if "climate change" is real
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 23, 2019, 09:52:31 AM
I rode my bike for 3 days this week and reduced my carbon footprint. What have you done?

You realize riding a bike increases your respiration, which in turn produces more CO2?   :rofl:
Title: Re: if "climate change" is real
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 23, 2019, 09:54:00 AM
We need to rename Climate Change to "The Stopped Clock Crisis".

Then at least their predictions would be right twice a day -- a vast improvement over the current track record.
Title: Re: if "climate change" is real
Post by: eyeeatingfish on March 25, 2019, 09:51:19 PM
Since you're not providing sources to back up your claim, I can only assume you have none.

I did post a source, since you must have missed it I will post it again for you.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/dec/12/james-hansen-climate-change-paris-talks-fraud

Note that this guy is an actual scientist and is in fact not Al Gore. Stop focusing on Al Gore as if he is some expert in the field. It is pretty obvious you are just trying to take the easy target instead of disproving the actual science on the matter.
Title: Re: if "climate change" is real
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 26, 2019, 11:41:26 AM
I did post a source, since you must have missed it I will post it again for you.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/dec/12/james-hansen-climate-change-paris-talks-fraud

Note that this guy is an actual scientist and is in fact not Al Gore. Stop focusing on Al Gore as if he is some expert in the field. It is pretty obvious you are just trying to take the easy target instead of disproving the actual science on the matter.

Nowhere in that article does the scientist you mentioned talk about "no teeth" or "involuntary". He said, AND I QUOTE:

Quote
But when he talks about the gathering of nearly 200 nations, his demeanour changes.

“It’s a fraud really, a fake,” he says, rubbing his head. “It’s just bullshit for them to say: ‘We’ll have a 2C
warming target and then try to do a little better every five years.’ It’s just worthless words. There is no
action, just promises.
As long as fossil fuels appear to be the cheapest fuels out there, they will be
continued to be burned.”

The talks, intended to reach a new global deal on cutting carbon emissions beyond 2020, have spent much time and
energy on two major issues: whether the world should aim to contain the temperature rise to 1.5C or 2C above
preindustrial levels, and how much funding should be doled out by wealthy countries to developing nations that risk
being swamped by rising seas and bashed by escalating extreme weather events.

But, according to Hansen, the international jamboree is pointless unless greenhouse gas emissions are taxed across
the board.
He argues that only this will force down emissions quickly enough to avoid the worst ravages of climate change.

Your characterization:

I don't listen to Al Gore.

I know from other sources that the Paris Accords had no teeth and were voluntary. Are you claiming that these statements are not accurate?



, and citation to support it, are rejected.
Title: Re: if "climate change" is real
Post by: eyeeatingfish on March 26, 2019, 12:50:06 PM
Nowhere in that article does the scientist you mentioned talk about "no teeth" or "involuntary".

I was paraphrasing. I believe the article supports what I paraphrased it.

The Paris accords did not have any consequences if a country didn't stick the the goal they set - In other words it had no teeth.
Title: Re: if "climate change" is real
Post by: ren on March 26, 2019, 12:54:36 PM
my bike takes up less space than a single driver in a sedan.
I don't need no stinking accords.
Title: Re: if "climate change" is real
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 26, 2019, 12:59:41 PM
I was paraphrasing. I believe the article supports what I paraphrased it.

The Paris accords did not have any consequences if a country didn't stick the the goal they set - In other words it had no teeth.

No "accord" is going to have punitive measures for failing to achieve results. The scientist NEVER eluded to what you're claiming. He's simply saying fossil fuels are bad, and we (any "accord") need to TAX fossil fuels to a level that forces everyone to stop using them. Period.

None of that applies to needing "teeth" to force compliance by participating nations.

Quote
We’ll have a 2C warming target and then try to do a little better every five years

Quote
As long as fossil fuels appear to be the cheapest fuels out there, they will be continued to be burned.

You're out of gas (pun intended).
Title: Re: if "climate change" is real
Post by: ren on March 26, 2019, 03:22:07 PM
I just recycled about 2 lbs of cardboard and a bag of cans & bottles found from co workers trash cans
I don't need no stinking accords
Title: Re: if "climate change" is real
Post by: eyeeatingfish on March 26, 2019, 03:42:19 PM
No "accord" is going to have punitive measures for failing to achieve results. The scientist NEVER eluded to what you're claiming. He's simply saying fossil fuels are bad, and we (any "accord") need to TAX fossil fuels to a level that forces everyone to stop using them. Period.

None of that applies to needing "teeth" to force compliance by participating nations.

You're out of gas (pun intended).

Sigh, yes, a tax would be part of an enforcement mechanism. The Paris accords lack teeth, I don't know why you are quibbling with this, are you suggesting that the Paris Accords have enforcement powers (teeth)? If not then you are just arguing to argue.

The initial agreement didn't have enforcement. Groups tried to add enforcement but it never passed. The 2 degree mark was never going to be attainable without enforcement. All your argument really does is support the position that we need the Paris Accords but to a greater degree and with enforcement capabilities.  Of course they will miss their mark when no one participates.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/anderscorr/2016/12/01/expect-climate-catastrophe-paris-agreement-lacks-enforcement/#3efb97153313
Title: Re: if "climate change" is real
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 26, 2019, 03:47:55 PM
Sigh, yes, a tax would be part of an enforcement mechanism. The Paris accords lack teeth, I don't know why you are quibbling with this, are you suggesting that the Paris Accords have enforcement powers (teeth)? If not then you are just arguing to argue.

The initial agreement didn't have enforcement. Groups tried to add enforcement but it never passed. The 2 degree mark was never going to be attainable without enforcement. All your argument really does is support the position that we need the Paris Accords but to a greater degree and with enforcement capabilities.  Of course they will miss their mark when no one participates.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/anderscorr/2016/12/01/expect-climate-catastrophe-paris-agreement-lacks-enforcement/#3efb97153313

Wrong.  A tax is to raise the price of fossil fuels to IMPLEMENT the accord objectives. Nobody is being taxed FOR NOT ACIEVEING targets.

You really are obtuse -- or just trolling.
Title: Re: if "climate change" is real
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 26, 2019, 03:51:48 PM
Sigh, yes, a tax would be part of an enforcement mechanism. The Paris accords lack teeth, I don't know why you are quibbling with this, are you suggesting that the Paris Accords have enforcement powers (teeth)? If not then you are just arguing to argue.

The initial agreement didn't have enforcement. Groups tried to add enforcement but it never passed. The 2 degree mark was never going to be attainable without enforcement. All your argument really does is support the position that we need the Paris Accords but to a greater degree and with enforcement capabilities.  Of course they will miss their mark when no one participates.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/anderscorr/2016/12/01/expect-climate-catastrophe-paris-agreement-lacks-enforcement/#3efb97153313

Your Forbes citation -- is that written by one of your "scientists?"

Well, he does have a PhD -- in GOVERNMENT!!  LOL!

He's not even close to being a scientist.

You're so off base.   :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

This is what happens when you just post random Google results  with headlines you think support your OPINION.

(https://i.imgur.com/qjuYxzo.png)
Title: Re: if "climate change" is real
Post by: ren on March 26, 2019, 05:50:27 PM
"military intelligence" isn't that an oxymoron? :rofl:
Title: Re: if "climate change" is real
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 26, 2019, 06:25:05 PM
"military intelligence" isn't that an oxymoron? :rofl:

It's right up there with Climate Change Scientist.   :geekdanc:
Title: Re: if "climate change" is real
Post by: ren on March 26, 2019, 06:27:58 PM
completed 30 miles round trip - work commute
Title: Re: if "climate change" is real
Post by: bass monkey on March 27, 2019, 10:38:35 AM
I just recycled about 2 lbs of cardboard and a bag of cans & bottles found from co workers trash cans
I don't need no stinking accords

I get about $5 a day recycling cans and bottles
Easy money
Title: Re: if "climate change" is real
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 27, 2019, 12:25:28 PM
I get about $5 a day recycling cans and bottles
Easy money

Unless you're recycling other people's recyclables, that's called a "partial refund".

Only ones making "easy money" is the general fund.
Title: Re: if "climate change" is real
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 27, 2019, 12:44:37 PM
I get about $5 a day recycling cans and bottles
Easy money

I throw all my gun stuff away in my neighbors trash can because we got lots of bums digging looking for bottles.  What pisses me off is when they tear the trash bags open, then the wind blows and all the trash goes all over the garage area.  So I purposely take my cans/bottles to work to throw them away.  I ain't gonna support their drug habit.  A few weeks ago, I did see a bum digging thru and eating someones Costco chicken they tossed.  So I took him to Rainbows and bought him a plate lunch.
Title: Re: if "climate change" is real
Post by: eyeeatingfish on March 28, 2019, 09:50:57 PM
Your Forbes citation -- is that written by one of your "scientists?"

Well, he does have a PhD -- in GOVERNMENT!!  LOL!

He's not even close to being a scientist.

You're so off base.   :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

This is what happens when you just post random Google results  with headlines you think support your OPINION.


The question is whether it has teeth, you are trying to change the subject. You don't need to be a climate scientist to tell whether an agreement has enforcement powers.

But of course, you are a a climate scientist so I can trust that you are right when you say man isn't influencing the climate significantly.