2aHawaii
General Topics => Legal and Activism => Topic started by: Mr. Farknocker on May 10, 2012, 04:59:51 PM
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Too new to the sport to know the difference between California legal rifles/handguns and Hawaii but not so new to know that they exist. I overheard one brother from Califonia at HPD (attempting to register his AR) mention to the attendant that he could only release the mag by sticking something into a hole to release the mag catch. I'm curious to know what are the other differences and/or restrictions for rifles and handguns in California?
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There's the bullet button you mentioned and I think you can't have a threaded barrel, other than that im not too sure.I bet it was one of those CA smith and wesson M&P rifles OGC got shipped to them by mistake. They were only going for like $600.
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thats what they call a bullet button. don't really know their rules other than the fact that they suck more than hawaii's.
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The bullet button locks in the mag. It is dumb. Just so ordinary folks cant change their mags fast like the LA bank robbers.
You have to push in the mag release with a pin to release the mag......they make magnetic ones go google it....funny stuff...well not so funny
Bone head politicians. It only prevents law abiding folks from changing their mags fast.
Do you think criminals are going to abide?
hmmmm thats why they disobey laws.
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I've also see those gay riflestock/handgrip hybrids on cali guns a lot. Something like they can't have a pistol grip. Case in point, the hello kitty AR.
http://www.riflegear.com/blogimages/KittyRifle.jpg (http://www.riflegear.com/blogimages/KittyRifle.jpg)
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What about handguns? Is the only limitation a restriction in mag capacity?
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My XD45 box explicitly states that the gun is not legal in cali. For handguns, I think it has to do with a detachable magazine.
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What about handguns? Is the only limitation a restriction in mag capacity?
In order for a handgun to be legal in California, the manufacturer must provide a number (I think like 100) of handguns to the state for them to do their (California) safety tests on.
On top of that the manufacturer must pay for the tests. (drop tests, safety tests etc...) I think it's in the thousands of dollars range, on top of the cost of the guns. (The guns are not sent back)
Finally, if the handgun passes all of the tests, the manufacturer must pay California $300 a year for the privilege of selling that handgun in their state for one year.
This is for every single model of handgun.
Colossal waste of time, money and man hours.
A lot of new guns are not on the California approved list because they haven't gone through the tests yet.
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Damn CA Liberal Scam, I mean Scum!
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I've also see those gay riflestock/handgrip hybrids on cali guns a lot. Something like they can't have a pistol grip. Case in point, the hello kitty AR.
http://www.riflegear.com/blogimages/KittyRifle.jpg (http://www.riflegear.com/blogimages/KittyRifle.jpg)
That's just about the ugliest thing I've ever seen.
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If your moving to California can you bring handguns not on the approved list?
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If your moving to California can you bring handguns not on the approved list?
Not supposed to
Here's how to find out if your gun is California approved.
http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/ (http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/)
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http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/safeguns_resp.asp (http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/safeguns_resp.asp)
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Sorry KK you're not on the list so you cant get into CALI no more.....
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Sorry KK you're not on the list so you cant get into CALI no more.....
That's almost true. Hahaha
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The roster is really really stupid -- you can have the same gun, different color, and it can be 'banned.' Because they haven't tested the model in Flat Dark Earth.
Another stupid thing, California has Magazine disconnects (which have made their way into some of our Hawaii guns). I'm going to ensure that the next guns I buy don't have mag disconnects or I won't purchase them. I recently made this mistake when picking up a springfield xdm 40; Magazine gets loose or you are reloading, you can't shoot the damn gun.
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Looks like California is a posterchild of what a State looks like if its free citizens are not vigilent with respect to their gun rights.
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Another stupid thing, California has Magazine disconnects (which have made their way into some of our Hawaii guns). I'm going to ensure that the next guns I buy don't have mag disconnects or I won't purchase them. I recently made this mistake when picking up a springfield xdm 40; Magazine gets loose or you are reloading, you can't shoot the damn gun.
Magazine disconnects are a safety feature. If someone is trying to take away your gun and you think you might lose it then you disconnect the magazine and you cannot get shot by your own gun. It has its ups and its downs. Some people want the feature some do not.
I certainly don't think that they should be mandated for public ownership but magazine disconnects themselves have a purpose in firearms.
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Magazine disconnects are a safety feature. If someone is trying to take away your gun and you think you might lose it then you disconnect the magazine and you cannot get shot by your own gun. It has its ups and its downs. Some people want the feature some do not.
I certainly don't think that they should be mandated for public ownership but magazine disconnects themselves have a purpose in firearms.
Hahaha :rofl:
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Magazine disconnects are a safety feature. If someone is trying to take away your gun and you think you might lose it then you disconnect the magazine and you cannot get shot by your own gun. It has its ups and its downs. Some people want the feature some do not.
I certainly don't think that they should be mandated for public ownership but magazine disconnects themselves have a purpose in firearms.
They're a stupid safety feature, but you're right, they are a safety feature. Personally, I think it's more likely that I'll hit the magazine release inadvertently in a high-stress situation (like I've seen people do on the drawstroke at the range) than a criminal is to relieve me of a loaded, functional firearm. The magazine disconnect only helps you if you've already drawn the gun and are holding it in more or less a shooting grip. It does nothing if you get cold-cocked and they remove it from your holster. The upshot is, I think it's a really dumb idea. If you've got the gun in your hand, why don't you try shooting the bastard who's trying to take it instead of rendering it useless? (And this is coming from a guy who hates the entire GLOCK line of handguns because a shitty trigger does not make a good safety! :D)
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I don't get it. If you are engaged in hand to hand combat and your life is on the line, the expectation is that you will have the ability to 1) determine ahead of time that your attacker is about to disarm you; and 2) remove the magazine and clear the chamber? Does LE have the same feature on their firearms?
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I don't get it. If you are engaged in hand to hand combat and your life is on the line, the expectation is that you will have the ability to 1) determine ahead of time that your attacker will disarm you; and 2) remove the magazine and clear the chamber?
Exactly
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I don't get it. If you are engaged in hand to hand combat and your life is on the line, the expectation is that you will have the ability to 1) determine ahead of time that your attacker will disarm you; and 2) remove the magazine and clear the chamber? Do LE have the same feature on the firearms?
Even with one in the chamber, it won't fire if the mag is loose. If you are getting beat so bad that you can't retain the firearm, you are already behind the curve.
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I don't get it. If you are engaged in hand to hand combat and your life is on the line, the expectation is that you will have the ability to 1) determine ahead of time that your attacker is about to disarm you; and 2) remove the magazine and clear the chamber? Does LE have the same feature on their firearms?
Yup, that's the basic idea, although with a magazine disconnect, you don't have to clear the chamber, just hit the mag release. That does beg the following question, however: If you have enough foresight to see that you're going to be disarmed, wouldn't your time be better spent trying to figure out how to retain your weapon, rather than trying to render said weapon useless? It just seems laughable to me, although I'm sure if you look long and hard enough, you'll find one person who was saved by the feature...
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They're a stupid safety feature, but you're right, they are a safety feature. Personally, I think it's more likely that I'll hit the magazine release inadvertently in a high-stress situation (like I've seen people do on the drawstroke at the range) than a criminal is to relieve me of a loaded, functional firearm. The magazine disconnect only helps you if you've already drawn the gun and are holding it in more or less a shooting grip. It does nothing if you get cold-cocked and they remove it from your holster. The upshot is, I think it's a really dumb idea. If you've got the gun in your hand, why don't you try shooting the bastard who's trying to take it instead of rendering it useless? (And this is coming from a guy who hates the entire GLOCK line of handguns because a shitty trigger does not make a good safety! :D)
It is not stupid, it just an option. You just have to train the way you shoot. It is like saying a level 3 holster is stupid, well no it's not it is just a different option.
Some like it some don't. Some departments use it some departments don't.
I will say that it probably makes more sense for an officer than a homeowner.
The idea is this: An officer gets into a physical scuffle and due to being outnumbered or the suspect being larger or stronger, the officer is about to lose his firearm. With a magazine disconnect feature he can attempt to drop the magazine which ensures that the suspect cannot shoot the officer with his own gun. Without this feature the officer can drop the magazine but the suspect will have one round to shoot the officer. Additionally with the magazine disconnect feature the suspect will probably get confused why the gun is not working giving the officer time to transition to another weapon, get away, or use a backup firearm.
Statistics show that a significant number of cops who are shot in the line of duty are shot by their own firearm. This illustrates the benefit of a magazine disconnect. I don't recall the exact number though.
Again it is not a stupid feature, it is just an option that has its own benefits and drawbacks. No system is perfect for all situations.
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Got confused a little with the push button thingy on rifles versus the magazine disconnect since both have to do with the mag.
So the push button thingy on the rifle makes it difficult to remove the magazine while the mag disconnect on a Calihandgun simply disables the gun when the mag is removed?
If this is the case, I don't have a problem with that. Use of that contraption essentially means that whoever ends up firing the handgun, good guy or bad guy, has control over both components at the moment the gun is discharged.
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Hi There,
I'm new to the board and back in Hawaii after 25 years in CA.
I've been a supporter of 2A civil rights in CA for about 3 years now. I look forward to helping out the team here, however I can.
I'll try to shed some light on the subject for those interested.
As far as legal vs illegal semi-auto rifles in CA I point those interested to the flow chart from calguns.net
http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf (http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf)
This flowchart as been instrumental in CA residents staying legal with their rifle configurations.
The CA Assault Weapons feature ban applies to all semi-auto rifles with a detachable magazine.
To be considered to have a non-detachable magazine it is required for that it can be released only with the use of a tool, and in the law a bullet is considered a tool.
What the bullet button does is allow for a free mag to be inserted in the mag-well and then become locked in place and in-removable without using the tip of a bullet (or other tool) to be pushed through the bullet button and release the mag.
The other way to stay legal with your rifle is to keep it in a "featureless" configuration by not having any of the features listed in box 12 of the Flowchart.
The biggest hurdle is not using a pistol grip.
Alternatives are things like the Monsterman grip: http://www.monstermangrip.com (http://www.monstermangrip.com)
or
The Hammerhead grip: https://www.exilemachine.net/shop/exile-machine-hammerhead-ar-15-grip-black-1.html (https://www.exilemachine.net/shop/exile-machine-hammerhead-ar-15-grip-black-1.html)
The Calguns Foundation and SAF currently have an active case against the CA AW ban:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=496479 (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=496479)
It's going after the AW law with respect to it's vagueness.
As for pistols, the Roster of "safe pistols" is certainly a hurdle to jump over but people have figured out ways to get around it. It mainly involves having an out of state dealer who converts the non-Rostered pistol into a single shot gun which then allows it to be imported and sold to a non Law Enforcement Officer (LEO) CA citizen who then converts it back into a semi-auto configuration.
Info on the "Single Shot Exemption" can be found in this thread on calguns:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=383692 (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=383692)
There are no laws against possessing a non-Rostered pistol, the laws only apply to sale and purchase from a dealer. A private party sale is also OK and some have gotten theirs through that method but the sellers have to be carefull that they not conduct "too many" transfers or they would have to be dealers. Some LEO's were buying a bunch of non-Roster handguns and reselling them until ATF caught wind of it.
The Calguns Foundation and SAF also have a case against the Roster here:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=179227&highlight=roster (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=179227&highlight=roster)
If anyone wishes to learn more about the convoluted gun laws of California I encourage them to head over to www.calguns.net (http://www.calguns.net) and read up on them there.
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If anyone wishes to learn more about the convoluted gun laws of California I encourage them to head over to www.calguns.net (http://www.calguns.net) and read up on them there.
Ehh me no need the extra headache. But I do check out calguns sometimes. Oh and welcome back :shaka:
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I'm new to the board and back in Hawaii after 25 years in CA.
As far as legal vs illegal semi-auto rifles in CA I point those interested to the flow chart from calguns.net
http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf (http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf)
This flowchart as been instrumental in CA residents staying legal with their rifle configurations.
:wtf:
Cannot express how glad I am to be out of that insane state. Glad you were able to escape too.
The sheep that elected the excrement that passed these laws feel so much safer now. With their dept jumping from $9B to $16B since January, they are swirling in the toilet bowl.