2aHawaii

General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: Chiefjoe1911 on October 05, 2019, 01:32:56 PM

Title: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: Chiefjoe1911 on October 05, 2019, 01:32:56 PM
Here’s the link:

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/10/05/man-kills-home-intruder-ewa-shooting-according-police-sources/
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: jase90 on October 05, 2019, 02:34:57 PM
Man fuck Hawaii media. You can just feel in the article that they are trying to make the intruder with the knife the victim and the homeowner the scary psychopath with a gun.
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: RSN172 on October 05, 2019, 02:50:30 PM
Not only media, but our LEO and Prosecutor will try to convict him of murder because he used a gun.  That is why I feel it is vitally important to carry insurance for these types of incidents.  Without it, you could be financially ruined even if you are found not guilty.
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: ren on October 05, 2019, 04:49:09 PM
The media's tone in the article suggested that it's normal for a stranger to trespass with a knife. :grrr: seemingly implying that the stranger had a right to be on your property  :wacko:
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: rklapp on October 05, 2019, 05:33:34 PM
Man fuck Hawaii media. You can just feel in the article that they are trying to make the intruder with the knife the victim and the homeowner the scary psychopath with a gun.
But didn’t you know that if you bring a knife to a fight, it’s not fair to bring a gun???
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: ren on October 05, 2019, 06:00:04 PM
https://www.khon2.com/news/man-shot-after-going-to-suspects-property-with-a-knife/ (https://www.khon2.com/news/man-shot-after-going-to-suspects-property-with-a-knife/)



HONOLULU (KHON2) — A man was shot to death in Ewa Beach on Friday, October 5, around 9 p.m.

According to the Honolulu Police Department, the 37-year-old victim was on the suspect’s property with a knife when the suspect opened his front door and shot him.

Emergency Medical Services responded to the scene and declared the victim dead at the scene.

“All of a sudden I heard two loud bangs simultaneously and I said that’s a gun. That is a gun. Make sure everyone is okay. My family was okay,” said neighbor John Bermuda. “I heard sirens coming in. So I looked out and I said, you know, police cars came in. The paramedics came. After that, just literally the whole neighborhood also heard two gunshots.”

The 54-year-old suspect was later taken into custody and is pending investigation.

Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: jase90 on October 05, 2019, 06:19:47 PM
But didn’t you know that if you bring a knife to a fight, it’s not fair to bring a gun???

Fair enough?
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: robtmc on October 05, 2019, 06:29:49 PM
The paramedics came. After that, just literally the whole neighborhood also heard two gunshots.”

Dunno where that statement came from, but it smells like shiite.  Shooting after the paramedics showed up?

Or just the usual grade school level Hawaii unirnalists.
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 05, 2019, 08:09:08 PM
Original headline was "homeowner arrested and charged with murder". HNN then changed it to what it reads now.

Fake news at its finest.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: zippz on October 05, 2019, 10:58:19 PM
Sounds like a good shoot however I wait for more info before passing judgement.  Sometimes things aren't what they seem.

One thing that concerns me is why he opened the door.
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: RSN172 on October 05, 2019, 11:14:50 PM
Sounds like a good shoot however I wait for more info before passing judgement.  Sometimes things aren't what they seem.

One thing that concerns me is why he opened the door.

He didn't want to ruin a good door by shooting through it.
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: oldfart on October 06, 2019, 04:46:23 AM
Original headline was "homeowner arrested and charged with murder". HNN then changed it to what it reads now.

Fake news at its finest.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
==============
Not necessarily fake news. Details are ALWAYS muddy in the early hours of an investigation.
Sometimes details are muddy after YEARS of investigation. :rofl:
HPD now says it's a "murder investigation", but the homeowner was released.

When these kinds of stories come out, you never really know anything for sure.
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: groveler on October 06, 2019, 11:34:16 AM
It is my understanding that police arrest
everybody that uses a gun in a Homicide.
Even if it is obviously self defense. 
They confiscate the  gun and any
in the house.  It  will take years and thousands
of dollars to get the guns back.
Even if  charges are not brought
and the shooter is freed..

Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: oldfart on October 06, 2019, 11:57:56 AM
It is my understanding that police arrest
everybody that uses a gun in a Homicide.
Even if it is obviously self defense. 
They confiscate the  gun and any
in the house.  It  will take years and thousands
of dollars to get the guns back.
Even if  charges are not brought
and the shooter is freed..
....
Which is why I don't invest much money in any defensive gun.
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: zippz on October 06, 2019, 12:34:18 PM
Things I'd like to know about this case...

What was the shot guy doing...making threats, advancing towards the shooter, drunk, crazy, stealing stuff.

Where was the knife...in his hand, on his belt, on a backpack.

Where was the guy...next to the door, at a distance.

Why did he open the door and not just call the police to take care of it

Do they know each other?

A bad outcome would be if it was a regular chronic in the area with a knife on his belt and the homeowner said screw it I'll make him an example.  Or at least that's what the prosecutor would say.  Not worth shooting or getting involved unless your life is truly at stake and it's a last resort.  Going to be very expensive for the shooter with the attorneys fees, civil lawsuit, possibility of losing his job, and strain on the family

Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 06, 2019, 01:36:45 PM
Things I'd like to know about this case...

What was the shot guy doing...making threats, advancing towards the shooter, drunk, crazy, stealing stuff.

Where was the knife...in his hand, on his belt, on a backpack.

Where was the guy...next to the door, at a distance.

Why did he open the door and not just call the police to take care of it

Do they know each other?

A bad outcome would be if it was a regular chronic in the area with a knife on his belt and the homeowner said screw it I'll make him an example.  Or at least that's what the prosecutor would say.  Not worth shooting or getting involved unless your life is truly at stake and it's a last resort.  Going to be very expensive for the shooter with the attorneys fees, civil lawsuit, possibility of losing his job, and strain on the family

Most normal people don't barricade their bedroom door and call 911 when they hear a noise.  If they have protection, they're going to investigate before involving the Cops.  Could be the wind blowing the blinds around.

Secondly, if there is an actual intruder, he's going to wish I'd called the Cops.

My home -- my castle. 
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: MEENGIRL on October 06, 2019, 04:06:46 PM
Hawaii doesn't have a castle doctrine  or stand your ground laws..... after all this state is democratically run.  :wtf:
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 06, 2019, 06:24:56 PM
Hawaii doesn't have a castle doctrine  or stand your ground laws..... after all this state is democratically run.  :wtf:

I'm not a lawyer, but this guy says he is ...

Quote
Most states, including Hawaii, have adopted laws based on the Castle Doctrine, which permits the use of
reasonable force, including deadly force, in order to protect one’s own life or another’s life
when at home, or in their “castle,” without being liable to prosecution.

Quote
The difference between the Castle Doctrine type of law enacted by Hawaii and the Stand Your Ground law in
Florida and at least 21 other states is that here in Hawaii we have a duty to try to retreat to safety before using
deadly force if we are not on our own property or at work.


https://www.davidserenolaw.com/knowing-your-rights-self-defense-laws-in-hawaii/
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: robtmc on October 06, 2019, 07:29:42 PM
If you can avoid the necessity of force by retreating to complete safety or by complying with a demand(with exceptions)

So, if Rufus says "gibsmedat" you are not allowed to defend yourself?
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 06, 2019, 09:06:26 PM
If you can avoid the necessity of force by retreating to complete safety or by complying with a demand(with exceptions)

So, if Rufus says "gibsmedat" you are not allowed to defend yourself?

If Rufus is in your house/on your property/at work, then you don't have to comply with Rufus' demands nor retreat to safety.  That would be at your discretion.

You always have choices.  The problem is, you're choosing under duress and on-the-spot.  The prosecutor will be sitting in an office reading a police report while second-guessing your decisions, motivations, and their chances of getting a conviction.
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 06, 2019, 10:36:32 PM
Man fuck Hawaii media. You can just feel in the article that they are trying to make the intruder with the knife the victim and the homeowner the scary psychopath with a gun.

What language in the article leads you to that conclusion? Looks like pretty neutral language to me.
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 06, 2019, 10:39:19 PM
Hawaii doesn't have a castle doctrine  or stand your ground laws..... after all this state is democratically run.  :wtf:

Hawaii does have a castle doctrine.
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: groveler on October 07, 2019, 07:46:12 AM
Hawaii does have a castle doctrine.
You will still get arrested and all your guns confiscated,
not much of a castle is it?
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 07, 2019, 10:50:25 AM
You will still get arrested and all your guns confiscated,
not much of a castle is it?

If they take the gun I used, there's no reason to take ALL of my guns.  They'd have to force me to open my gun safe to do that, and without a signed warrant, that's not happening. 

My guns sitting locked up and me under arrest pose no threat to anyone.

I will cooperate with the investigation, but I'm not assisting them in finding evidence that may be used against me.
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 07, 2019, 11:24:34 AM
Hawaii does have a castle doctrine.

It's a modified castle doctrine.  You're not immune from civil liability like many states castle docs are.  Also you still have a duty to retreat within the dwelling, but not from the dwelling.  So if bad guy comes in the front door and you're in the kitchen.  If you can safely make it to another part of the home, you shall go there.  But you do not have to jump out the window or leave your home.  Now it's how you articulate why you didn't move to another portion of the home when asked.  Or if you live in a 400sq foot condo, then there is no where else to go.  Advantage for having a small condo which is the norm in HI.
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 07, 2019, 11:29:30 AM
What language in the article leads you to that conclusion? Looks like pretty neutral language to me.

The original article by KHON referred to the knife wielder as "victim".  And original headline read "Homeowner arrested and charged with murder".  Didn't know the prosecutors office was awake at 10pm or so on a Friday night to determine a murder charge and all evidence gathered.  No mention of detaining or "pending investigation.  They changed it hours later after the comments were majority angry that the homeowner was arrested and charged.  So once again piss poor reporting by the media to make a story.  And the overall tone was the guy who got shot was the "good guy".

HNN's article was  better written.  But came out way after KHON's one.
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 07, 2019, 11:30:34 AM


You always have choices.  The problem is, you're choosing under duress and on-the-spot.  The prosecutor will be sitting in an office reading a police report while second-guessing your decisions, motivations, and their chances of getting a conviction.

That's why it's good to have a plan, but plan on that plan failing also.  And keep quiet.  Just give name.
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: drck1000 on October 07, 2019, 01:19:05 PM
SNIP

A bad outcome would be if it was a regular chronic in the area with a knife on his belt and the homeowner said screw it I'll make him an example.  Or at least that's what the prosecutor would say.  Not worth shooting or getting involved unless your life is truly at stake and it's a last resort.  Going to be very expensive for the shooter with the attorneys fees, civil lawsuit, possibility of losing his job, and strain on the family
I know that area pretty well, but haven't been in the area much in the past few years.  Anyways, yeah, there's a lot of chronics in that area.  Especially after they "improved" the area around Oneula Beach Park.  I used to surf out there often in HS days and the "Hau Bush" was home to many. 

From the reports, looks like corner house on the main drag.  Those seem to be regular targets of burglaries.  Many corner houses where I grew up have bars on all windows and doors.  And this is a neighborhood that is generally thought of as low crime. 
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 07, 2019, 02:21:44 PM
That's why it's good to have a plan, but plan on that plan failing also.  And keep quiet.  Just give name.

#1 phone call: 911

#2 phone call:  Firearm Insurance Hotline   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: RSN172 on October 07, 2019, 05:11:03 PM
#1 phone call: 911

#2 phone call:  Firearm Insurance Hotline   :thumbsup:
I bet 75% of the folks on here don't have SD insurance.
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: robtmc on October 07, 2019, 05:55:45 PM
I bet 75% of the folks on here don't have SD insurance.
You would be right about that with me.

What does it cost, very roughly?   i can hear the wife now, "what do you need that for, planning on shooting someone?"
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: drck1000 on October 07, 2019, 06:09:55 PM
You would be right about that with me.

What does it cost, very roughly?   i can hear the wife now, "what do you need that for, planning on shooting someone?"
I don’t plan on shooting anyone, but I’m sure there are those that are planning to be up to no good that may warrant being shot to stop them.

That logic wasn’t received well by the last gf when she asked why I felt I needed a gun  ???

 :rofl:
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: macsak on October 07, 2019, 07:12:32 PM

That logic wasn’t received well by the last gf when she asked why I felt I needed a gun  ???


is that why she's an ex-gf?
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: RSN172 on October 07, 2019, 07:13:56 PM
I pay $30 a month for USCCA Platinum insurance coverage, which is the most popular one.  There is a lesser and a more coverage.  This covers ANY weapon not prohibited by law, not just firearms. 
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: drck1000 on October 07, 2019, 07:21:27 PM
is that why she's an ex-gf?
One of the minor reasons. Primary being she was nuckin futs  :wacko:

 :rofl:
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: robtmc on October 07, 2019, 07:47:22 PM
I pay $30 a month for USCCA Platinum insurance coverage, which is the most popular one.  There is a lesser and a more coverage.  This covers ANY weapon not prohibited by law, not just firearms.
Thanks.

Had a bad impression of USCCA after they spammed the hell out of me a while back, but will check it out. 

Sounds like nun-chuk use would not be covered.  My bedside machete should be good to go.
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: macsak on October 07, 2019, 07:48:55 PM
One of the minor reasons. Primary being she was nuckin futs  :wacko:

 :rofl:

so she was high on the hot/crazy scale?

does she have a sister?
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: drck1000 on October 07, 2019, 08:05:46 PM
so she was high on the hot/crazy scale?

does she have a sister?
Hot to crazy ratio? 1:Totallynotworthit

Yeah, she does have a sister. Prob about your age.  ;D
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: drck1000 on October 07, 2019, 08:14:43 PM
https://www.khon2.com/news/hawaiis-law-on-using-deadly-force/

Quote
Prosecuting attorney Megan Kau said the law states that a person can use deadly force to defend him or herself from deadly force if they believe it’s reasonably necessary.

“In other words, you can’t bring a knife to a fistfight, you can’t bring a gun to a knife fight, you have to use the same force the person is using against you in order for you to be justified,” she said.

Uh, really? That’s what the HRS says?  :wtf:
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: macsak on October 07, 2019, 08:26:38 PM
https://www.khon2.com/news/hawaiis-law-on-using-deadly-force/

Uh, really? That’s what the HRS says?  :wtf:

she is probably using her own interpretation of:
You cannot justify the use of deadly force defensively if you initiated its use or escalated a confrontation.
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: macsak on October 07, 2019, 08:26:54 PM
Hot to crazy ratio? 1:Totallynotworthit

Yeah, she does have a sister. Prob about your age.  ;D

heads
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: Heavies on October 07, 2019, 08:27:41 PM
she is probably using her own interpretation of:
You cannot justify the use of deadly force defensively if you initiated its use or escalated a confrontation.

If the dude is charged, I hope I'm on that jury
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 07, 2019, 08:35:32 PM
Thanks.

Had a bad impression of USCCA after they spammed the hell out of me a while back, but will check it out. 

Sounds like nun-chuk use would not be covered.  My bedside machete should be good to go.
Nunchucks not illegal.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 07, 2019, 09:04:50 PM
You will still get arrested and all your guns confiscated,
not much of a castle is it?

Yes you will probably still get arrested but that doesn't mean the castle doctrine doesn't exist. The castle doctrine comes into play when evaluating whether the person was justified in using force. A patrol officer on scene may be able to prove that the homeowner intentionally or knowingly killed the intruder (elements for murder) but evaluating whether the shooting was justified will likely take a bit more investigation.

Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 07, 2019, 09:07:02 PM
The original article by KHON referred to the knife wielder as "victim".  And original headline read "Homeowner arrested and charged with murder".  Didn't know the prosecutors office was awake at 10pm or so on a Friday night to determine a murder charge and all evidence gathered.  No mention of detaining or "pending investigation.  They changed it hours later after the comments were majority angry that the homeowner was arrested and charged.  So once again piss poor reporting by the media to make a story.  And the overall tone was the guy who got shot was the "good guy".

HNN's article was  better written.  But came out way after KHON's one.

Oh, ok. Yeah, I just read the HNN article, not the KHON.
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 07, 2019, 09:11:57 PM
It's a modified castle doctrine.  You're not immune from civil liability like many states castle docs are.  Also you still have a duty to retreat within the dwelling, but not from the dwelling.  So if bad guy comes in the front door and you're in the kitchen.  If you can safely make it to another part of the home, you shall go there.  But you do not have to jump out the window or leave your home.  Now it's how you articulate why you didn't move to another portion of the home when asked.  Or if you live in a 400sq foot condo, then there is no where else to go.  Advantage for having a small condo which is the norm in HI.

I just checked and I don't see anything that says you have to retreat inside your home, like from one room to another. It does say this:
"The actor is not obliged to retreat from his dwelling or place of work, unless he was the initial aggressor or is assailed in his place of work by another person whose place of work the actor knows it to be; "
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol14_Ch0701-0853/HRS0703/HRS_0703-0304.htm

Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: Jl808 on October 07, 2019, 10:39:30 PM
Nunchucks not illegal.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/cops-are-armed-nunchucks-offset-aggressive-image-n452061

The video of the cop restraining the reporter with nunchucks made me chuckle.

Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 07, 2019, 11:05:18 PM
I just checked and I don't see anything that says you have to retreat inside your home, like from one room to another. It does say this:
"The actor is not obliged to retreat from his dwelling or place of work, unless he was the initial aggressor or is assailed in his place of work by another person whose place of work the actor knows it to be; "
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol14_Ch0701-0853/HRS0703/HRS_0703-0304.htm
Im no lawyer so i could be wrong, but it says "retreat from dwelling" which means leave the home. Not retreat to a different room. So you still have to change rooms if possible.

But its all about why and how u articulate why you didnt retreat to another room. No time, sore leg, backed into something that prevented it, etc...hard to prove without video.

My previous apt was a studio so no where to retreat to, compared to a home.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: zippz on October 08, 2019, 06:02:35 AM
I don't see anything in 703-304 that says a person has to retreat from their home or move to another room in the house.
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: ren on October 08, 2019, 07:21:12 AM
https://www.kitv.com/story/41153251/ewa-beach-community-on-edge-after-man-shot-dead-in-their-neighborhood (https://www.kitv.com/story/41153251/ewa-beach-community-on-edge-after-man-shot-dead-in-their-neighborhood)

A community in Ewa Beach is on edge after one of their own neighbors who allegedly shot a man dead at his front door on Friday is no longer in police custody.

There's nothing in the article to support that media statement.
The tone of the article suggests that the homeowner was the criminal. Forget about this stranger with a knife on your property - I guess its a common thing and its perfectly legal for a stranger with a knife to trespass. :crazy: :grrr:
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: RSN172 on October 08, 2019, 07:25:55 AM
I don't see anything in 703-304 that says a person has to retreat from their home or move to another room in the house.
No way would I retreat from my home if an intruder broke in.  At night it is cold, dark and usually raining where I live.
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: drck1000 on October 08, 2019, 07:26:44 AM
https://www.kitv.com/story/41153251/ewa-beach-community-on-edge-after-man-shot-dead-in-their-neighborhood (https://www.kitv.com/story/41153251/ewa-beach-community-on-edge-after-man-shot-dead-in-their-neighborhood)

A community in Ewa Beach is on edge after one of their own neighbors who allegedly shot a man dead at his front door on Friday is no longer in police custody.

There's nothing in the article to support that media statement.
The tone of the article suggests that the homeowner was the criminal. Forget about this stranger with a knife on your property - I guess its a common thing and its perfectly legal for a stranger with a knife to trespass. :crazy: :grrr:
KITV’s reporting was one of them most emotionally anti-gun spun that I read.
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: drck1000 on October 08, 2019, 07:28:56 AM
Im no lawyer so i could be wrong, but it says "retreat from dwelling" which means leave the home. Not retreat to a different room. So you still have to change rooms if possible.

But its all about why and how u articulate why you didnt retreat to another room. No time, sore leg, backed into something that prevented it, etc...hard to prove without video.

My previous apt was a studio so no where to retreat to, compared to a home.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
That and knowledge of the laws. Like if the guy said “I warned him that next time I saw him in my property that I’d blast him full of holes. So when I saw him, I shot him up”.

Hopefully he didn’t do that, but I wasn’t there.  :(
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 08, 2019, 08:50:15 AM
I don't see anything in 703-304 that says a person has to retreat from their home or move to another room in the house.

Not from their home, but within the dwelling.  That's how I'm interpreting it.  I could be mistaken.  So if guy breaks down the door, and the state proves that you could have escaped to another room in your home before using deadly force, then you're screwed.  Can't stand in the living room and use deadly force.  But you don't have to jump out the window of that room you escaped to or use another door to escape your home either.
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 08, 2019, 09:40:23 AM
Not from their home, but within the dwelling.  That's how I'm interpreting it.  I could be mistaken.  So if guy breaks down the door, and the state proves that you could have escaped to another room in your home before using deadly force, then you're screwed.  Can't stand in the living room and use deadly force.  But you don't have to jump out the window of that room you escaped to or use another door to escape your home either.

Running to another room in the house is not "escaping".

It's hiding -- and hoping the intruder(s) is/are not going to enter that room, forcibly if necessary.

https://youtu.be/JNmoYKT0Fdk

Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: zippz on October 08, 2019, 10:27:02 AM
Not from their home, but within the dwelling.  That's how I'm interpreting it.  I could be mistaken.  So if guy breaks down the door, and the state proves that you could have escaped to another room in your home before using deadly force, then you're screwed.  Can't stand in the living room and use deadly force.  But you don't have to jump out the window of that room you escaped to or use another door to escape your home either.

It's just the whole house.  Don't have to retreat to another room.  Though tactically if it's more advantageous then do it.
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: ren on October 08, 2019, 11:08:07 AM
Not from their home, but within the dwelling.  That's how I'm interpreting it.  I could be mistaken.  So if guy breaks down the door, and the state proves that you could have escaped to another room in your home before using deadly force, then you're screwed.  Can't stand in the living room and use deadly force.  But you don't have to jump out the window of that room you escaped to or use another door to escape your home either.

so let me get this straight. A stranger in YOUR house and you must retreat from YOUR house. OK. Got it. So a criminal > law abiding citizen.
Homeowners unite. We in distress. Flag flown upside down. Truck cruise. Block intersections.
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 08, 2019, 09:03:35 PM
Im no lawyer so i could be wrong, but it says "retreat from dwelling" which means leave the home. Not retreat to a different room. So you still have to change rooms if possible.

But its all about why and how u articulate why you didnt retreat to another room. No time, sore leg, backed into something that prevented it, etc...hard to prove without video.

My previous apt was a studio so no where to retreat to, compared to a home.

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Yup, how would they know you didn't attempt retreat first?
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: zippz on October 09, 2019, 03:40:50 PM
HNN reported the guys name as Steven Suster.Appears to have lived here for a long time and no criminal history.  Not what I expected

Star Advertiser also reported the knife was in his hand.

Parents lives in the area.

Wonder if it's somekind of neighborhood quarrel

Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: drck1000 on October 09, 2019, 03:57:03 PM
Quote
UPDATE 10/9:

Authorities have revealed the identity of the man shot and killed in Ewa Beach on Friday.

According to Police, 37-year-old Steven Suster was shot by a homeowner when he was on his property with a knife.

The 54-year-old man was arrested but later released. The case has been classified as a homicide.

 

--
 
According to Honolulu Police they are investigating the incident that took place on Friday on a property around 9 p.m. that left one man dead.
 
Those in the Ewa Beach community tell KITV4 that the family living at the home where the incident took place have only been there for a few years.
 
According to neighbors, the family who lives there normally keep to themselves. Some even heard the sound of gunshots on Friday night.
 
"I was collecting the trash because it was trash day the next day then I heard a pop pop and right away in my mind I thought 'that's a gun.' I made sure my family was alright because I knew I heard it from right outside the gates of our property," neighbor John Bermuda said.
 
That neighbor says he was thinking about getting security cameras before the incident occurred, now he says he is going to get them as soon as possible.

Then in the comments:

Quote
Nohea • 2 hours ago
The neighbors must not be happy, their next-door neighbor was released, with very few details as to why he chose to shoot the man in his yard.

The guy with the gun MUST be the bad guy, right?   ???

ETA: gun

Nothing gets past the keen eye behind the monitor. . .  :rofl:
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: drck1000 on October 09, 2019, 04:01:29 PM
Not from their home, but within the dwelling.  That's how I'm interpreting it.  I could be mistaken.  So if guy breaks down the door, and the state proves that you could have escaped to another room in your home before using deadly force, then you're screwed.  Can't stand in the living room and use deadly force.  But you don't have to jump out the window of that room you escaped to or use another door to escape your home either.

You're focusing on the following part, correct?

"The actor knows that he can avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety by retreating"

but then:

"except that:

          (i)  The actor is not obliged to retreat from his dwelling or place of work"

I can see the distinction you appear to be making.  That said, my place is so darn small that once you're in the door, I'm generally not able to retreat.   :(
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: zippz on October 09, 2019, 04:19:10 PM
Then in the comments:

The guy with the gun MUST be the bad guy, right?   ???

ETA: gun

Nothing gets past the keen eye behind the monitor. . .  :rofl:

Maybe the neighbors know something we don't.
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: drck1000 on October 09, 2019, 04:28:15 PM
Maybe the neighbors know something we don't.
True.  Maybe history with one or both.  Neighbor feuds can be bad.   :(

I was more getting at the commentor's apparent bias against guns, or at least my opinion. 
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 09, 2019, 06:52:20 PM
You're focusing on the following part, correct?

"The actor knows that he can avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety by retreating"

but then:

"except that:

          (i)  The actor is not obliged to retreat from his dwelling or place of work"

I can see the distinction you appear to be making.  That said, my place is so darn small that once you're in the door, I'm generally not able to retreat.   :(
Corect.

Lucky we live hawaii. 400sq feet homes for the win.sit on the couch and stretch arm out. Now arm is in the kitchen.

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Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: drck1000 on October 10, 2019, 12:01:06 PM
Corect.

Lucky we live hawaii. 400sq feet homes for the win.sit on the couch and stretch arm out. Now arm is in the kitchen.

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My place is bigger than that, but not that much. . .  :( 

The layout is such that anyone coming in the door, there's really no good way to retreat to another room (bedroom, living, room, etc).  For a while, I had a Pelican case with revolvers in the living room, right by where I usually sit/lie on the couch.  That was right after I inherited the revolvers.  The revolvers were also right next to one of my "practical" swords.  Of course, all have been safely removed from those areas. . .  :P
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 10, 2019, 12:33:42 PM
My place is bigger than that, but not that much. . .  :( 

The layout is such that anyone coming in the door, there's really no good way to retreat to another room (bedroom, living, room, etc).  For a while, I had a Pelican case with revolvers in the living room, right by where I usually sit/lie on the couch.  That was right after I inherited the revolvers.  The revolvers were also right next to one of my "practical" swords.  Of course, all have been safely removed from those areas. . .  :P

Prosecutor will say "DRCK, you could have moved to the kitchen and into your fridge."
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: groveler on October 10, 2019, 12:33:59 PM
My place is bigger than that, but not that much. . .  :( 

The layout is such that anyone coming in the door, there's really no good way to retreat to another room (bedroom, living, room, etc).  For a while, I had a Pelican case with revolvers in the living room, right by where I usually sit/lie on the couch.  That was right after I inherited the revolvers.  The revolvers were also right next to one of my "practical" swords.  Of course, all have been safely removed from those areas. . .  :P
I'm surprised at how small Oahu places are and how vulnerable.
Fences and dogs work wonders.  Layered defenses.
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: drck1000 on October 10, 2019, 12:48:59 PM
Prosecutor will say "DRCK, you could have moved to the kitchen and into your fridge."

If I moved into my kitchen from any other room, I wouldn't be retreating, I'd be advancing.  What does the HRS say about that?  :hmm:

I'm surprised at how small Oahu places are and how vulnerable.
Fences and dogs work wonders.  Layered defenses.

There's somewhat a level of layering.  There's building security.  The previous bldg manager was a pretty buff (I'm pretty sure he was juicing, and not the fruit sort) and he actually chased down a couple of guys who managed to get into the lobby or the parking garage.  He was good fun to talk to.  He passed away suddenly though and the bldg hasn't been the same.   :(
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: Nostayhome on October 10, 2019, 01:24:46 PM
The prosecutor was on island 98.5 on Tuesday. She said that the way the case was presented to her was that the guy with the knife was standing outside of the guys gate on the sidewalk. The homeowner was in his doorway and shot him from there. Something doesn’t add up because I heard he was shot multiple times. I’m guessing it’s about 30yds from the door to the sidewalk by the video on the news.
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: zippz on October 10, 2019, 01:57:45 PM
30 yards is far, most residential properties aren't that long in total.  Maybe 30 feet.

If that prosecutor is right, it doesn't look good for the shooter.
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: drck1000 on October 10, 2019, 02:27:23 PM
The prosecutor was on island 98.5 on Tuesday. She said that the way the case was presented to her was that the guy with the knife was standing outside of the guys gate on the sidewalk. The homeowner was in his doorway and shot him from there. Something doesn’t add up because I heard he was shot multiple times. I’m guessing it’s about 30yds from the door to the sidewalk by the video on the news.
Was that Megan Kau?  Ms."You can't bring a knife to a fist fight, or a gun to a knife fight".  Exaggeration there, but pretty much what she is quoted saying.  I heard she tried to clarify that her words were taken out of context by the media.  Imagine that. . .  ::)
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: Nostayhome on October 10, 2019, 03:37:14 PM
Was that Megan Kau?  Ms."You can't bring a knife to a fist fight, or a gun to a knife fight".  Exaggeration there, but pretty much what she is quoted saying.  I heard she tried to clarify that her words were taken out of context by the media.  Imagine that. . .  ::)

Yup. That’s the one.
She did say a lot of people were getting excited about her comment so she tried to justify herself.
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: Nostayhome on October 10, 2019, 03:39:59 PM
30 yards is far, most residential properties aren't that long in total.  Maybe 30 feet.

If that prosecutor is right, it doesn't look good for the shooter.

Haha! Sorry I meant 30ft not sure why I put yards.
If that is the truth that he was outside of his property then he’s screwed.
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: drck1000 on October 10, 2019, 04:03:09 PM
Yup. That’s the one.
She did say a lot of people were getting excited about her comment so she tried to justify herself.
She's been in the news a lot lately on high or higher profile cases.  She is defending John Rabago.  The urinal licking case. 
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 10, 2019, 08:17:27 PM
Was that Megan Kau?  Ms."You can't bring a knife to a fist fight, or a gun to a knife fight".  Exaggeration there, but pretty much what she is quoted saying.  I heard she tried to clarify that her words were taken out of context by the media.  Imagine that. . .  ::)
Its not like they edited her statement. Shes just trying to cover her ass.

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Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: RSN172 on October 10, 2019, 09:06:23 PM
30 yards is far, most residential properties aren't that long in total.  Maybe 30 feet.

If that prosecutor is right, it doesn't look good for the shooter.
Not on the Big Island.  It is 150 ft from my gate to the front door.  Some like to build their houses way back, like 600 ft or more from the gate.
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 11, 2019, 09:00:49 AM
Not on the Big Island.  It is 150 ft from my gate to the front door.  Some like to build their houses way back, like 600 ft or more from the gate.

No one needs an assault rifle.  You should be able to engage the target at 150ft with your handgun.
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: kong on October 20, 2019, 06:12:12 PM
I don't see anything in 703-304 that says a person has to retreat from their home or move to another room in the house.

I am not an attorney but just looked up the definition of dwelling and it says it  is the structure of the house. Now try to google curtilage that is not dwelling.
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: rklapp on October 21, 2019, 08:33:05 PM
Was that Megan Kau?  Ms."You can't bring a knife to a fist fight, or a gun to a knife fight".  Exaggeration there, but pretty much what she is quoted saying.  I heard she tried to clarify that her words were taken out of context by the media.  Imagine that. . .  ::)
If bringing a knife to a knife fight, does the homeowner's knife have to be the same size? What about a machete?
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: RSN172 on October 21, 2019, 09:49:21 PM
If bringing a knife to a knife fight, does the homeowner's knife have to be the same size? What about a machete?
If I had to defend myself against someone with any sort of knife, be it a 2 inch or even a 6 inch blade, I would not feel like I was cheating if I used my 37 inch long katana.
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: drck1000 on October 21, 2019, 10:27:39 PM
If bringing a knife to a knife fight, does the homeowner's knife have to be the same size? What about a machete?
🤦🏻‍♂️
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 22, 2019, 09:09:29 AM
As long as the knife doesn't have a black handle or scary looking serrations on 1 edge.  Then it would be an assault knife and thus illegal.
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: stangzilla on October 22, 2019, 12:59:03 PM
If I had to defend myself against someone with any sort of knife, be it a 2 inch or even a 6 inch blade, I would not feel like I was cheating if I used my 37 inch long katana.

if you're not cheating, you're not trying   ;)
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: stangzilla on October 22, 2019, 01:00:04 PM
but in close quarters where mobility is limited, you may not want a huge knife
Title: Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
Post by: drck1000 on October 22, 2019, 02:23:27 PM
if you're not cheating, you're not trying   ;)
No such thing as cheating or fair in a fight.   ;D