2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: stangzilla on January 19, 2020, 10:26:34 AM
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https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2020/01/19/multiple-honolulu-police-officers-injured-shooting-near-diamond-head/
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The rash of shootings continue. Just saw that one cop KIA, one in extremely critical condition. Just got passed on H1 east by multiple HPD POVs and a HFD command center van.
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By la pietra
I hear a lot of sirens
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2 officers passed.
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Very sad and disgusting.
My condolences to my LE family and friends.
Very very disgusting
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The guy had a history of mental illness and was cited for calling 911 several times because he believed that there were government agents stalking him. There is a video of cops giving him a ticket where he is clearly intoxicated or mentally unbalanced and has no idea what is going on. We have no system when it comes to mental health other than let them run around loose on the street like feral animals until they get run over by a car or die of staph infections. The only reason this guy was not on the street was because of the kindness of the lady who he stabbed.
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Ballard said shooter didn’t have permits for any weapons
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Ballard said shooter didn’t have permits for any weapons
It doesn't matter.
We're all going to pay the price for the government's incompetence in dealing with mental illness.
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Our condolences to LE entire family(s) and friends. :(
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God bless our police officers and emergency responders. They do a great job.
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https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2020/01/20/shooting-suspect-had-history-mental-instability-not-extreme-violence-his-attorney-says/
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News articles are stating he may have used the ever dreadful AR15 "assault rifle." Watch the local political scum use this as an excuse for more California like restrictions.
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News articles are stating he may have used the ever dreadful AR15 "assault rifle." Watch the local political scum use this as an excuse for more California like restrictions.
They're already calling for the outright ban on modern sporting rifles with SB 2626
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They're already calling for the outright ban on modern sporting rifles with SB 2626
I know. I'm just saying the DemoncRATS will use this event as a prime example why they need to pass their unconstitutional bullshit. The house is still smoldering and they're going to cite this a reason why there's a moral imperative to cede more of our rights to these authoritarians.
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The big question is whether there was enough information to have kept him confined. Was there nothing that could have been done or did the system fail somewhere?
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The big question is whether there was enough information to have kept him confined. Was there nothing that could have been done or did the system fail somewhere?
Could something have been done by "the system?"
YES
Could something have been done by "the system" without violating the civil rights of everyone else who didn't kill anyone today, but who happens to fit the criteria they pretend predicted this one man would become violent?
NO
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News articles are stating he may have used the ever dreadful AR15 "assault rifle." Watch the local political scum use this as an excuse for more California like restrictions.
It takes training and skill to shoot two people in the head. Doesn't sound like it occurred up close. I wonder what his background was. The videos of him show that he has difficulty operating a pen, let alone a knife and a rifle.
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It takes training and skill to shoot two people in the head. Doesn't sound like it occurred up close. I wonder what his background was. The videos of him show that he has difficulty operating a pen, let alone a knife and a rifle.
Have to wait for more details before making any judgments on skill level.
At this point, it's just your/our imagination at work.
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It doesn't take much imagination to know that it would be very difficult for an amateur to make those shots. Of course, Oswald seemed to have managed it, allegedly.
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It takes training and skill to shoot two people in the head. Doesn't sound like it occurred up close. I wonder what his background was. The videos of him show that he has difficulty operating a pen, let alone a knife and a rifle.
Seems like he was under the influence in the body cam footage where he's getting the citation. Maybe that's just how he is. In either case, the guy is obviously not well, or a very good actor. From reports of his neighbors, I would tend to believe the former.
And so much that isn't known at this point and we may never know. Like mentioned above, rational folks tend to wait until more details and facts are known before jumping to conclusions.
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I heard nothing about head shots. Were they multiple ?
Regardless, yes it would take some skill, even at close range to acquire both shots on trained officers.
:(
I'm also interested in the firearm.
Ballard said "it was not registered" but was it legally purchased ?
i:e. he went thru HPD back ground check and they failed to note his TRO's ?
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could be a long gun purchased before 1984. that's when they started registration for long guns, I believe. can't remember, if it's 1984, or 1994. damn, this CRS. now that I think about it, I think it's 1994, long gun registration.
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could be a long gun purchased before 1984. that's when they started registration for long guns, I believe. can't remember, if it's 1984, or 1994. damn, this CRS. now that I think about it, I think it's 1994, long gun registration.
Copy that, 1994 :thumbsup:
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The news did bring up red flag laws. But none of the neighbors knew he was a gun owner, so it would have been a moot example that's going to be pushed.
Or if the guns were even his...
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the core problem is a mentally unstable person. He not only used a firearm but a garden tool and committed arson.
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the core problem is a mentally unstable person. He not only used a firearm but a garden tool and committed arson.
Bingo!
Tragic, sad, etc event all the way around.
That said, from a logical and rational perspective, how would have gun laws changed anything? Those motivated to doing evil will find a way, no matter the method. And in this case, I don't think one can rationalize a clearly irrational person. Though I am sure there will be many who will try to do so from an emotional basis and react by calling for further gun restrictions in the name of "doing something".
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Bingo!
Tragic, sad, etc event all the way around.
That said, from a logical and rational perspective, how would have gun laws changed anything? Those motivated to doing evil will find a way, no matter the method. And in this case, I don't think one can rationalize a clearly irrational person. Though I am sure there will be many who will try to do so from an emotional basis and react by calling for further gun restrictions in the name of "doing something".
they should also do something along the lines of all tools used to start a fire and harm caused by garden tools. The 2 officers were shot but also a possible 3rd victim was killed by arson.
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Police cadaver dog leads investigators to human remains in ashes of Diamond Head property
HONOLULU, Hawaii (HawaiiNewsNow) - A police cadaver dog has led investigators to human remains in the ashes of a Diamond Head home, Hawaii News Now has learned.
Authorities did not immediately have more information on the find.
The news comes as two people ― the suspect and his landlord ― remain unaccounted for in the wake of Sunday’s shooting and fires in the Diamond Head area.
Authorities are presuming that the suspect, 69-year-old Jerry Hanel, is dead but have not yet ruled out that he got away.
He is accused of stabbing a woman and fatally two police officers before apparently setting a fire that burned at least five homes to the ground.
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2020/01/21/suspects-landlord-remains-unaccounted-following-diamond-head-shooting-fires/ (https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2020/01/21/suspects-landlord-remains-unaccounted-following-diamond-head-shooting-fires/)
If the remains are of Jerry Hanel, I hope it was a slow and painful end. . .
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The first officers that was shot in head didn’t see it coming probably a ambush! The responding officers probably Heard panic on the radio raced over to help falling officers when they were probably ambushed to! They know the area but not the exact location on the perp! Why was that one police car on fire right next to the house?
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Why do they keep saying he’s name! Only make copy cats!
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Why do they keep saying his name! Only make copy cats!
I don't think that really works.
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They talk about stiffening gun laws as if would have prevented this tragedy. He already violated the existing laws against him having a gun, murder, assault and arson.
Tell me how more laws would have helped or even prevent future incidents.
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They talk about stiffening gun laws as if would have prevented this tragedy. He already violated the existing laws against him having a gun, murder, assault and arson.
Tell me how more laws would have helped or even prevent future incidents.
That's not how our law makers work. "oh a gun was used because it well off a military supply plane, lets make more laws against the law abiding".
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In his State of the State address, Ige said even the strictest gun laws could not have stopped what happened in Diamond Head this past weekend. So his focus is getting more officers to supplement the force. Was interesting that he said that, particularly the first part.
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could be a long gun purchased before 1984. that's when they started registration for long guns, I believe. can't remember, if it's 1984, or 1994. damn, this CRS. now that I think about it, I think it's 1994, long gun registration.
Could also be the notorious "Goose Gun". :shake:
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Well that didn't take long to start the victim shaming and gun control narrative. Can't waste time and let people get the idea that mental health and crazy people are the problem! Yep, it her own fault she and our officers were murdered! Low HNN very low
https://www.facebook.com/HawaiiNewsNow/posts/10157867748700479
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Could something have been done by "the system?"
YES
Could something have been done by "the system" without violating the civil rights of everyone else who didn't kill anyone today, but who happens to fit the criteria they pretend predicted this one man would become violent?
NO
Not sure how you know the answer to that second question... you have some inside information about the man's police record and mental health records?
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Well that didn't take long to start the victim shaming and gun control narrative. Can't waste time and let people get the idea that mental health and crazy people are the problem! Yep, it her own fault she and our officers were murdered! Low HNN very low
https://www.facebook.com/HawaiiNewsNow/posts/10157867748700479
The comments on HNN are back to :facepalm:
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Not sure how you know the answer to that second question... you have some inside information about the man's police record and mental health records?
Inside?
Not necessary.
He was identified by HPD as mentally ill.
He and HPD had MANY interactions.
No one believed he had guns, because he had TROs against him filed by neighbors.
The missing landlord had her late husband's guns that were registered to him.
I'm going to guess the 69 yr old renter was able to access her guns. No laws would have stopped him -- either existing or future laws.
The only thing that would have stopped him would have included involuntary committal and treatment. That means every other mentally ill person with similar symptoms would also be committed.
Only one person did anything this violent.
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Condolences to the families of the officers.
I think its irresponsible journalism to make a statement that he "may". The investigators havent completed their jobs yet and the landlord is still missing. Shame on HNN.
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Interesting how everyone including shoppo is saying we need better mental health care.
Ummmm...gun guys been saying that after every active shooting.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
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Interesting how everyone including shoppo is saying we need better mental health care.
Ummmm...gun guys been saying that after every active shooting.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
But no one wants to pay extra to have it be available.
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In his State of the State address, Ige said even the strictest gun laws could not have stopped what happened in Diamond Head this past weekend. So his focus is getting more officers to supplement the force. Was interesting that he said that, particularly the first part.
wow, I'm surprised he actually said something like that :o.
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and here we go... not all victims bodies have been recovered yet and the investigation is still ongoing...
https://www.kitv.com/story/41594183/us-representative-ed-case-discusses-strict-guncontrol-laws (https://www.kitv.com/story/41594183/us-representative-ed-case-discusses-strict-guncontrol-laws) :grrr:
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Inside?
Not necessary.
He was identified by HPD as mentally ill.
He and HPD had MANY interactions.
No one believed he had guns, because he had TROs against him filed by neighbors.
The missing landlord had her late husband's guns that were registered to him.
I'm going to guess the 69 yr old renter was able to access her guns. No laws would have stopped him -- either existing or future laws.
The only thing that would have stopped him would have included involuntary committal and treatment. That means every other mentally ill person with similar symptoms would also be committed.
Only one person did anything this violent.
When I said a failure of the system I didn't mean of the gun purchase system, though it may have been a factor.
Rather I had in mind the legal system and mental health system. Were there some incident in his record which should have gotten him locked up but didn't because of the failure of an officer, or a prosecutor, or a judge, aor a mental health professional.
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Inside?
Not necessary.
He was identified by HPD as mentally ill.
He and HPD had MANY interactions.
No one believed he had guns, because he had TROs against him filed by neighbors.
The missing landlord had her late husband's guns that were registered to him.
I'm going to guess the 69 yr old renter was able to access her guns. No laws would have stopped him -- either existing or future laws.
The only thing that would have stopped him would have included involuntary committal and treatment. That means every other mentally ill person with similar symptoms would also be committed.
Only one person did anything this violent.
no laws would've stopped him from buying gasoline, matches, sharp pointy objects and what ever items he could think of in his mental state either.
There's a reason why the crazy kids were driven in a separate bus and left at a separate time than the rest of the kids
I had a crazy class mate that drank Elmer's white glue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6uFXEjgX8Q
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no laws would've stopped him from buying gasoline, matches, sharp pointy objects and what ever items he could think of in his mental state either.
There's a reason why the crazy kids were driven in a separate bus and left at a separate time than the rest of the kids
I had a crazy class mate that drank Elmer's white glue.
It seems that this issue is on a pendulum. It wasn't long ago that people with all sorts of mental illnesses were locked up now they are moving towards not locking up anyone. No idea when we are going to start moving back the other direction though.
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I bet we will also see a proposed law to keep all firearms locked up at all times like san Francisco.
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wow, I'm surprised he actually said something like that :o.
Yup, same here. Very surprised. Even seeing a LOT more discussion of importance of mental health/issues lately on usually very liberal media and people. Don't think that will change the tide on calls for gun control, but. . .
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I bet we will also see a proposed law to keep all firearms locked up at all times like san Francisco.
I've already seen calls for just that. The "no loaning of firearms" was another one. . .
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It seems that this issue is on a pendulum. It wasn't long ago that people with all sorts of mental illnesses were locked up now they are moving towards not locking up anyone. No idea when we are going to start moving back the other direction though.
Whenever the liberals stop calling for equality in all things, especially based on emotion.
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But no one wants to pay extra to have it be available.
Had law makers been spending money on mental heath instead of gun control from 20 years ago, we might have been better off. But instead they spend billions on gun control. That is the point I'm trying to make.
We have a mental heath problem disguised as a gun problem.
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Had law makers been spending money on mental heath instead of gun control from 20 years ago, we might have been better off. But instead they spend billions on gun control. That is the point I'm trying to make.
We have a mental heath problem disguised as a gun problem.
Mental illness is a problem with every stinking demoncrat in this country.... :D
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Mental illness is a problem with every stinking demoncrat in this country.... :D
The Liberals teach "victimhood". EVERYONE is mentally ill to some degree. It's how you avoid responsibility, and related consequences, for bad behavior. ADD, ADHD, anxiety, social insecurity, etc. It's all designed to convince us nothing is our fault, we can't control ourselves, and the system should treat us, not punish us.
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Heard on KHON news at 6 some idiot rep suggested that ammo needs to be registered! What a jackass..... >:(
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Heard on KHON news at 6 some idiot rep suggested that ammo needs to be registered! What a jackass..... >:(
I think that idiot rep is mentally ill. He/she needs to be registered....that's the root problem.
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Had law makers been spending money on mental heath instead of gun control from 20 years ago, we might have been better off. But instead they spend billions on gun control. That is the point I'm trying to make.
We have a mental heath problem disguised as a gun problem.
I agree with you on that point but here is part of the problem. Gun rights activists are usually conservatives/republicans and we don't have a strong tract record on free health care. So we kind of look like hypocrites if we push back against free health care while at the same time saying we need mental health care instead of gun control. If we are going to say the government needs to provide more to deal with the mental health problem that necessarily means we are going to have to take a step towards socialized medicine. Certainly rather that than lose our guns.
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I agree with you on that point but here is part of the problem. Gun rights activists are usually conservatives/republicans and we don't have a strong tract record on free health care. So we kind of look like hypocrites if we push back against free health care while at the same time saying we need mental health care instead of gun control. If we are going to say the government needs to provide more to deal with the mental health problem that necessarily means we are going to have to take a step towards socialized medicine. Certainly rather that than lose our guns.
I don't believe completely socialized medicine is necessary to deal with mental case problems. It's not an all or nothing proposition.
This is not an issue any conservative or Republican would have a problem with funding. If and when Democrats tack on a bunch of bullshit riders, like public abortion funding or illegal alien free health care, that's when the issue will be opposed
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I don't believe completely socialized medicine is necessary to deal with mental case problems. It's not an all or nothing proposition.
This is not an issue any conservative or Republican would have a problem with funding. If and when Democrats tack on a bunch of bullshit riders, like public abortion funding or illegal alien free health care, that's when the issue will be opposed
Exactly. If you think healthcare costs are high now, just wait until they are "FREE!"
In order to keep cost within budget, the "free" mental healthcare will have to treat those patients with the greatest need.
Who decides that? As we all know, there is not way to identify who will commit violence and who will not. So, public safety would be hit-or-miss. Not much different than now.
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This is not an issue any conservative or Republican would have a problem with funding.
I would tend to agree but how many republicans are introducing bills that would do this? (maybe there are, I just haven't seen any, rather it seems republicans resist such bills)
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Big pharma and their drugs are the main reason for all the mental health problems we have today.
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I agree with you on that point but here is part of the problem. Gun rights activists are usually conservatives/republicans and we don't have a strong tract record on free health care. So we kind of look like hypocrites if we push back against free health care while at the same time saying we need mental health care instead of gun control. If we are going to say the government needs to provide more to deal with the mental health problem that necessarily means we are going to have to take a step towards socialized medicine. Certainly rather that than lose our guns.
We don't need a total free healthcare system, but when someone is a danger to themselves or others, then the government health care should step in. Crackheads who go to the ER don't pay the bill, neither do people who are in mental facilities.
Not to side track the subject, but a total free health care that the DNC is pushing for doesn't work too well. Wait times will be very long. Compared if I have to see my PCP, I can call them right now and they can squeeze me in today or within 1-2 days. Same goes with a specialist that may be needed after the initial PCP visit.
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We don't need a total free healthcare system, but when someone is a danger to themselves or others, then the government health care should step in. Crackheads who go to the ER don't pay the bill, neither do people who are in mental facilities.
Not to side track the subject, but a total free health care that the DNC is pushing for doesn't work too well. Wait times will be very long. Compared if I have to see my PCP, I can call them right now and they can squeeze me in today or within 1-2 days. Same goes with a specialist that may be needed after the initial PCP visit.
Exactly....
Take a look at the “free for all” health care system in Canada. Ok if all you need is wellness care but god forbid you need surgery or specialty care your wait will exceed 6 months! Good friend of mine is Canadian and his wait for bypass surgery was over 7 months. Good thing he went to the U.S. to get treatment at his own expense.....
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some people already get free healthcare by going to the ER for everything as simple as a toothache.
Who suffers? The people who are in REAL need of medical emergency treatment as well as people who pay their own share for things.
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some people already get free healthcare by going to the ER for everything as simple as a toothache.
Who suffers? The people who are in REAL need of medical emergency treatment as well as people who pay their own share for things.
Chances are, even if there is free mental health care offered, most won't avail themselves. There have been stories on the news lately on mentally ill homeless refusing any kind of help. One had a physical health issue, got treatment and was back out on the street even though they were offered a room in a mental health treatment facility.
OFFERING a solution to the people posing the problem is not a solution. Laws against involuntary committal continues to be a roadblock.
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I remember that guy who was waving a knife in Ross in his underwear. They had a state psych exam him and he was declared sane. He was released and killed someone 2 days later in Chinatown.
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Had law makers been spending money on mental heath instead of gun control from 20 years ago, we might have been better off. But instead they spend billions on gun control. That is the point I'm trying to make.
We have a mental heath problem disguised as a gun problem.
If the "Great Society" gibsmedat welfare state was not so out of control, we might be able to afford to treat the mentally ill.
instead we subsidize sloth and breeding of more generations of leeches.
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If the "Great Society" gibsmedat welfare state was not so out of control, we might be able to afford to treat the mentally ill.
instead we subsidize sloth and breeding of more generations of leeches.
Funny video I watched today of a feminazi wearing a pink pussy hat saying she was gay and disabled and trying to survive on disability. She had been out at a protest all day on her feet and had enough energy to yell at and attack the person interviewing her after she found out they were Trump supporters. In other words she didn’t look so disabled to me. But what do I know? I have long felt that the disability and welfare systems are filled with people committing fraud upon the taxpayer. There is no oversight and compliance written into the laws so it is rampant IMHO.
Personally, I feel that if we still had the death penalty and didn’t require it take 10+ years to put the mentally ill murderers and violent offenders to death we wouldn’t have to provide mental institutions to violent criminals. The death penalty saves the taxpayer money. :thumbsup:
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Funny video I watched today of a feminazi wearing a pink pussy hat saying she was gay and disabled and trying to survive on disability. She had been out at a protest all day on her feet and had enough energy to yell at and attack the person interviewing her after she found out they were Trump supporters. In other words she didn’t look so disabled to me. But what do I know? I have long felt that the disability and welfare systems are filled with people committing fraud upon the taxpayer. There is no oversight and compliance written into the laws so it is rampant IMHO.
Personally, I feel that if we still had the death penalty and didn’t require it take 10+ years to put the mentally ill murderers and violent offenders to death we wouldn’t have to provide mental institutions to violent criminals. The death penalty saves the taxpayer money. :thumbsup:
WAY off topic, but that reminds me of that video of that conference or something where there were all of those "points of personal privilege" or something like that where there were calls to make "jazz hands" instead of clapping because there were those that were sensitive to noise. How do these people function in REAL day-to-day life? Probably can't because they were raised in a protective bubble. . .
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Funny video I watched today of a feminazi wearing a pink pussy hat saying she was gay and disabled and trying to survive on disability. She had been out at a protest all day on her feet and had enough energy to yell at and attack the person interviewing her after she found out they were Trump supporters. In other words she didn’t look so disabled to me. But what do I know? I have long felt that the disability and welfare systems are filled with people committing fraud upon the taxpayer. There is no oversight and compliance written into the laws so it is rampant IMHO.
Personally, I feel that if we still had the death penalty and didn’t require it take 10+ years to put the mentally ill murderers and violent offenders to death we wouldn’t have to provide mental institutions to violent criminals. The death penalty saves the taxpayer money. :thumbsup:
My brother has worked in fast food his entire adult life. When he's asked to fix a store that's losing money, one of his first things to look into is how many on the job injury worker's comp claims have happened shortly after employment. It's becoming common for new hires to set up or fake their injuries just to qualify for WC benefits.
To combat this, he sits down and calls the former employers and reviews the WC records of new employees. If they have a pattern of claims after a short time on the job, he lets them go and replaces them rather than hope his store doesn't become their 3rd, 4th, 5th or higher number fraud victim.
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WAY off topic, but that reminds me of that video of that conference or something where there were all of those "points of personal privilege" or something like that where there were calls to make "jazz hands" instead of clapping because there were those that were sensitive to noise. How do these people function in REAL day-to-day life? Probably can't because they were raised in a protective bubble. . .
My wife is on disability because she is truly disabled. You wouldn’t understand what I go through now that she cannot do some things for herself. I’m not complaining because I want to do everything I can for my wife. My point is if this woman was truly disabled by one of the qualifying conditions, she would not be able to protest all day and be able to attack anyone. She would need help living day to day in some way. Which leads me to believe she is probably receiving disability fraudulently. She was quite rotund as I remember in the video so scrounging for food doesn’t seem likely considering her comment about having a hard time living on disability.
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My wife is on disability because she is truly disabled. You wouldn’t understand what I go through now that she cannot do some things for herself. I’m not complaining because I want to do everything I can for my wife. My point is if this woman was truly disabled by one of the qualifying conditions, she would not be able to protest all day and be able to attack anyone. She would need help living day to day in some way. Which leads me to believe she is probably receiving disability fraudulently. She was quite rotund as I remember in the video so scrounging for food doesn’t seem likely considering her comment about having a hard time living on disability.
Yeah, I hear ya.
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https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2020/01/24/wake-diamond-head-tragedy-police-chief-seeks-tighten-loopholes-gun-laws/ (https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2020/01/24/wake-diamond-head-tragedy-police-chief-seeks-tighten-loopholes-gun-laws/)
In the wake of the deadly rampage in Diamond Head, Honolulu’s police chief says she wants to tighten loopholes in Hawaii’s already tough gun laws.
Police Chief Susan Ballard said Thursday that police found multiple firearms at the Hibiscus Drive property where 69-year-old suspect Jerry Hanel is accused of killing his landlord and fatally shooting two Honolulu police officers before setting a fire that destroyed five homes in the affluent community.
Hanel is also presumed dead.
The guns were all badly damaged in the scorching blaze.
Speaking to Hawaii News Now, Ballard said none of the guns found at the property were registered to the suspect, his landlord ― Lois Cain ― or her husband, who died in 2005.
“This is the time we need to do something.”
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https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2020/01/24/wake-diamond-head-tragedy-police-chief-seeks-tighten-loopholes-gun-laws/ (https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2020/01/24/wake-diamond-head-tragedy-police-chief-seeks-tighten-loopholes-gun-laws/)
In the wake of the deadly rampage in Diamond Head, Honolulu’s police chief says she wants to tighten loopholes in Hawaii’s already tough gun laws.
Police Chief Susan Ballard said Thursday that police found multiple firearms at the Hibiscus Drive property where 69-year-old suspect Jerry Hanel is accused of killing his landlord and fatally shooting two Honolulu police officers before setting a fire that destroyed five homes in the affluent community.
Hanel is also presumed dead.
The guns were all badly damaged in the scorching blaze.
Speaking to Hawaii News Now, Ballard said none of the guns found at the property were registered to the suspect, his landlord ― Lois Cain ― or her husband, who died in 2005.
“This is the time we need to do something.”
Am I the only one who thinks that the chief of police shouldn't be a political hack, and not be the one making or suggesting laws?
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WTF? They mentioned a few times that ghost guns do not need to be registered. I feel like some can take this statement as being legal to own.
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“There are now 38 gun proposals moving through the Legislature ― and more than a dozen were introduced since the weekend shooting.”
:wtf:
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that term ghost guns is just plain stupid
just another hyped up word to get attention.
A gun without a serial number.
This tragedy involved guns that were illegally accessed by someone. In addition, he committed arson and stabbed at least one person.
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“There are now 38 gun proposals moving through the Legislature ― and more than a dozen were introduced since the weekend shooting.”
:wtf:
Yep, true story.
WWW.HIFICO.ORG/2020BILLS
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We don't need a total free healthcare system, but when someone is a danger to themselves or others, then the government health care should step in. Crackheads who go to the ER don't pay the bill, neither do people who are in mental facilities.
Not to side track the subject, but a total free health care that the DNC is pushing for doesn't work too well. Wait times will be very long. Compared if I have to see my PCP, I can call them right now and they can squeeze me in today or within 1-2 days. Same goes with a specialist that may be needed after the initial PCP visit.
Subsidized or free health care systems do have their own drawbacks but so does out system and different forms suffer something in different ways. Till I changed to my wife's medical plan, our 80/20 HMSA plan was going to go up to something like $850 a month for a family of 4 and that is only the employee portion! People can go to the ER for mental health but most mental health issues don't need an expensive ER visit, they need to see a psychologist or psychiatrist and just need basic visits which they can't just get for free like in the ER. I think we need some combination of in custody mental health care as well as non custody care.
For clarification I am not necessarily in favor of full socialized medicine but I think we need to overcome the idea that we must completely resist socialized medicine.
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Big pharma and their drugs are the main reason for all the mental health problems we have today.
How do you come to that conclusion?
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How do you come to that conclusion?
How many active shooters were on meds?
Why has none of that info been a priority, but taking guns away is?
Why is almost no news outlet telling the public this info?
Who gains from burying the above info?
Find the anwers to the above, and there are the conclusions.
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https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2020/01/24/wake-diamond-head-tragedy-police-chief-seeks-tighten-loopholes-gun-laws/ (https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2020/01/24/wake-diamond-head-tragedy-police-chief-seeks-tighten-loopholes-gun-laws/)
In the wake of the deadly rampage in Diamond Head, Honolulu’s police chief says she wants to tighten loopholes in Hawaii’s already tough gun laws.
Police Chief Susan Ballard said Thursday that police found multiple firearms at the Hibiscus Drive property where 69-year-old suspect Jerry Hanel is accused of killing his landlord and fatally shooting two Honolulu police officers before setting a fire that destroyed five homes in the affluent community.
Hanel is also presumed dead.
The guns were all badly damaged in the scorching blaze.
Speaking to Hawaii News Now, Ballard said none of the guns found at the property were registered to the suspect, his landlord ― Lois Cain ― or her husband, who died in 2005.
“This is the time we need to do something.”
Rhodes denied the bill to remove penalties for late firearm registration. Could that have helped, we will never know.
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How many active shooters were on meds?
Lots, but the relevant question is are the meds the cause or the symptom.
Why has none of that info been a priority, but taking guns away is?
Why is almost no news outlet telling the public this info?
Who gains from burying the above info?
Find the anwers to the above, and there are the conclusions.
This is not to say drug companies are blameless or that drugs never cause any more harm than the issue they are trying to prevent but we can't simple look at the correlation of these meds and their actions and conclude a cause.
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Lots, but the relevant question is are the meds the cause or the symptom.
This is not to say drug companies are blameless or that drugs never cause any more harm than the issue they are trying to prevent but we can't simple look at the correlation of these meds and their actions and conclude a cause.
And this is why big pharma is still not held accountable. I know a guy who was taking meds for depression. Even though he was given the long list of possible side affects, his doctor still prescribed them. After a few weeks, he felt suicidal and not right in the head. Luckily, he's a smart man and realized it wasn't him, but the meds. So he stopped them and all went back to his non suicidal/ voices in the head state.
How many active shooters had mental problems, but not on meds?
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And this is why big pharma is still not held accountable. I know a guy who was taking meds for depression. Even though he was given the long list of possible side affects, his doctor still prescribed them. After a few weeks, he felt suicidal and not right in the head. Luckily, he's a smart man and realized it wasn't him, but the meds. So he stopped them and all went back to his non suicidal/ voices in the head state.
I wouldn't say they are not held accountable. They have spent billions in payouts for all sorts of issues stemming from drugs and products they came up with, they are facing a lot of lawsuits over pain medications right now. Drugs are an imprecise science and doctors and scientists can never fully predict how a drug will work on everyone. Some drugs work one way on a person but have the opposite effect on another person. Sometimes the drug companies are negligent or even reckless but we can't simply blame mental health drugs, I don't think the data would support that sole conclusion. To explore the question more we could try to see what drugs are used how in what countries and try to compare similar types of violence to eliminate social and cultural factors.
How many active shooters had mental problems, but not on meds?
This isn't conclusive of anything though. All that could mean is we are better at diagnosing problems and treating them. Could be a bit of both as well. How many people who have headaches are taking Tylenol?
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Where did the officers get shot? Neck or head? it was supposed to be above protection of the ballistic vest.
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Where did the officers get shot? Neck or head? it was supposed to be above protection of the ballistic vest.
I haven't seen that released yet but most rifles will penetrate most soft body armor so if the guy used a rifle it might not have mattered.
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Where did the officers get shot? Neck or head? it was supposed to be above protection of the ballistic vest.
It sounded like a rapid firing rifle in the video which makes sense as the shooter was probably inexperienced so wouldn't be a handgun. Also police vests are only rated up to a mild 357 load so vest wouldn't have made any difference against a rifle.
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Bolt action, big game rounds
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Where did the officers get shot? Neck or head? it was supposed to be above protection of the ballistic vest.
In the news conference I saw, the police chief said the officers were hit above the protective area of their vests. She wasn't any more specific as to the wound locations.
The first officer fatally wounded was one of two officers ambushed walking down the drive. The second was when the killer was shooting into a group of officers that responded as backup. Sounds like both kills were lucky shots while just firing at the groups.
If he were as skilled as some have commented, I think there would have been more fatalities.
JMHO.
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Bolt action, big game rounds
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did your "intel" give you this?
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Bolt action, big game rounds
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so a magazine ban would not have any effect on this crime
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so a magazine ban would not have any effect on this crime
Hard to say. Maybe he could have gotten more rounds off and killed more people but who knows.
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Hard to say. Maybe he could have gotten more rounds off and killed more people but who knows.
He could been using a belt fed rifle as well. There is nothing that disproves this either. Since ballistics were not made public yet nor were any mags, clips, links found due to the fire.
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He could been using a belt fed rifle as well. There is nothing that disproves this either. Since ballistics were not made public yet nor were any mags, clips, links found due to the fire.
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I think you may have just pointed out a loophole hehe. They want to ban high capacity magazines.... but they didn't say high capacity belted ammo... >:D
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In the news conference I saw, the police chief said the officers were hit above the protective area of their vests. She wasn't any more specific as to the wound locations.
The first officer fatally wounded was one of two officers ambushed walking down the drive. The second was when the killer was shooting into a group of officers that responded as backup. Sounds like both kills were lucky shots while just firing at the groups.
If he were as skilled as some have commented, I think there would have been more fatalities.
JMHO.
Thanks, that's what I read as well, so was wondering what they considered above the protective area. The first officer being ambushed was perhaps less avoidable, but the backup being killed perhaps could have been prevented with better procedure since there was already 1 officer down and a known armed perp. hindsight 20/20 of course though.
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I'm surprised the media isn't talking about this 24/7
If it was a mass shooting they would be screaming assault weapon and we would have a timeline of events.
I also personally never realized how big the fire was and how quickly it got that large.
From what I've heard, the female officer was shot first, and the guy, went in to rescue her, leave no officer behind.
Only heard it once though
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I'm surprised the media isn't talking about this 24/7
If it was a mass shooting they would be screaming assault weapon and we would have a timeline of events.
I also personally never realized how big the fire was and how quickly it got that large.
From what I've heard, the female officer was shot first, and the guy, went in to rescue her, leave no officer behind.
Only heard it once though
residential fires will quickly get out of control if the fire department doesn't show up to fight it. In this case, because the situation was dangerous, they were not allowed to fight it and instead let the homes burn.
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I'm surprised the media isn't talking about this 24/7
If it was a mass shooting they would be screaming assault weapon and we would have a timeline of events.
I also personally never realized how big the fire was and how quickly it got that large.
From what I've heard, the female officer was shot first, and the guy, went in to rescue her, leave no officer behind.
Only heard it once though
Because a semi auto rifle probably wasn't used. Still no ballistic reports either or body cam.
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Shotgun with buckshot
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Shotgun with buckshot
....
Rumor or fact?
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Because a semi auto rifle probably wasn't used. Still no ballistic reports either or body cam
Shotgun with buckshot
Joe Biden’s advice ?
(Either you know or you don’t know what that is referring to :D)
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Joe Biden’s advice ?
(Either you know or you don’t know what that is referring to :D)
I guess we'll never know if there was buckshot damage to the door...
Just speculation but since the police are usually issued vests with lvl IIIA protection a rifle would have penetrated the vest. The officers who died succumbed to wounds in non protected areas. I'm just assuming but Hanel was either able to take very well placed shots at soft spots under stress, or he used something like a shotgun. There's no confirmation as to whose guns were found on the property but a friend of the landlord mentioned that she(landlord) had her late husbands "old guns" hidden under her bed.
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....
Rumor or fact?
Rumor, heard from someone that one of the initial witnesses described a shotgun. I have been watching the videos and reading articles about the tragic incident but cannot find the interview that was mentioned.
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I guess we'll never know if there was buckshot damage to the door...
Just speculation but since the police are usually issued vests with lvl IIIA protection a rifle would have penetrated the vest. The officers who died succumbed to wounds in non protected areas. I'm just assuming but Hanel was either able to take very well placed shots at soft spots under stress, or he used something like a shotgun. There's no confirmation as to whose guns were found on the property but a friend of the landlord mentioned that she(landlord) had her late husbands "old guns" hidden under her bed.
The coronor can tell what caliber made the wounds. But no info released. So prob wasnt a 223 or 7.62.
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The coronor can tell what caliber made the wounds. But no info released. So prob wasnt a 223 or 7.62.
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please give a source where the coronor is able to determine what caliber...
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please give a source where the coronor is able to determine what caliber...
Forensic pathologists commonly describe bullets as small (.22, .25), medium (.32, .38, 9 mm), or large (.40, .45, .50) caliber,
based on a measurement of the bullet's diameter. A simple ruler or caliper is a good way to make this determination with a
bullet recovered at autopsy.
https://www.archivesofpathology.org/doi/full/10.1043/1543-2165%282006%29130%5B1283%3APPOGW%5D2.0.CO%3B2
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https://www.archivesofpathology.org/doi/full/10.1043/1543-2165%282006%29130%5B1283%3APPOGW%5D2.0.CO%3B2
lol
small medium and large does not "tell the caliber"
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please give a source where the coronor is able to determine what caliber...
Im assuming there is a national data base that shows entry and exit wounds of various calibers. A 9mm looks diff from a 338 lapua.
Also any heads recovered in the line of fire should have been found by now.
Or am i watching too much CSI and no such data base/ testing exist.
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Im assuming there is a national data base that shows entry and exit wounds of various calibers. A 9mm looks diff from a 338 lapua.
Also any heads recovered in the line of fire should have been found by now.
Or am i watching too much CSI and no such data base/ testing exist.
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"assuming" is different from "intel"
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Im assuming there is a national data base that shows entry and exit wounds of various calibers. A 9mm looks diff from a 338 lapua.
Also any heads recovered in the line of fire should have been found by now.
Or am i watching too much CSI and no such data base/ testing exist.
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you mean bullets or projectiles right?
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"assuming" is different from "intel"
Assumptions is the mother of all fuck ups.
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If you read the linked article I posted, it goes through the entire "system", including identifying the caliber.
When a person dies from a gunshot wound, the investigation of the death falls to the local medicolegal death investigation system.
In a large urban setting this is usually a medical examiner's office, headed by a chief medical examiner and staffed by forensic
pathologists who have completed specialized postresidency fellowship training. In other jurisdictions, the responsibility belongs
to the elected coroner and his or her designated forensic pathologist. Distinguishing among accidental, suicidal, and homicidal
gunshot wounds; estimating range of firing; and distinguishing exit wounds from entrance wounds are critical skills and just a few
of the reasons why a forensic pathologist must be an expert in interpreting gunshot injuries. An error in any of these determinations
can have far-reaching consequences for the family of the deceased, the accused, the legal system, and the forensic pathologist.
This article seeks to lay basic groundwork for understanding the pathology of gunshot wounds.
A forensic pathologist does not have to be a weapons expert to interpret gunshot pathology correctly, but, because bullets fired
from handguns and rifles produce gunshot wounds, a forensic pathologist should at least be familiar with the nomenclature and
operation of commonly used guns and ammunition. The examination and interpretation of firearms and bullets is termed ballistics
or firearms examination. It is a separate field of expertise from forensic pathology requiring specialized training and instruments
of its own.2 The basic functional unit of a modern round of ammunition is the cartridge.
Even if a bullet has fragmented, a ballistics expert may be able to determine the caliber of the bullet from the aggregate weight of
the fragments. It is also extremely important to recover any jacket fragments whenever possible because in jacketed ammunition,
the rifling marks appear only on the jacket. Unless the jacket is recovered, the bullet cannot be matched to a particular gun. The
forensic pathologist must always remember that the chain of custody for any bullets begins in the autopsy suite. If potential evidence
is mishandled in the autopsy suite, whether by the pathologist performing the autopsy, technicians assisting, or the investigators
assigned to case, it diminishes the likelihood of that material being admitted into evidence at trial. Recovered bullets and fragments
should be photographed next to a scale identifying the anatomic location from which the bullet or fragment was recovered. Each
bullet and/or fragment should be then be sealed in a separate evidence envelope with the subject's name, the date of recovery, and
the name of the pathologist who recovered it written by the pathologist in his or her own handwriting on the envelope.
Even though the medical examiner is likely not the same person as the ballistics expert, the evidence is collected and provided to whomever is doing that part of the analysis.
Just like a medical examiner submits blood and tissue samples to a lab for testing, so will he submit jackets, bullets and fragments for testing.
Quibbling over whether the doctor himself runs every test personally is pointless.
But, a real doctor would already know this. :popcorn:
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I think its a 22lr for someone to get two head shots that has never shot or been seen using a gun in there life! And that is a common rifle!
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If you read the linked article I posted, it goes through the entire "system", including identifying the caliber.
Even though the medical examiner is likely not the same person as the ballistics expert, the evidence is collected and provided to whomever is doing that part of the analysis.
Just like a medical examiner submits blood and tissue samples to a lab for testing, so will he submit jackets, bullets and fragments for testing.
Quibbling over whether the doctor himself runs every test personally is pointless.
But, a real doctor would already know this. :popcorn:
please show me where I said that
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Rumor, heard from someone that one of the initial witnesses described a shotgun. I have been watching the videos and reading articles about the tragic incident but cannot find the interview that was mentioned.
Guessing people in the vicinity don't hit the range. Otherwise they could tell the difference between small caliber and big bore rifle, shotgun, handgun, at the least. They did say that the officer went flying back, so maybe it was a shotgun.
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please show me where I said that
Show me where I said you said that.
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I think its a 22lr for someone to get two head shots that has never shot or been seen using a gun in there life! And that is a common rifle!
Why would that matter? Someones first shot with a 22lr isn't going to be different from a 12 gauge
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Back the Blue Range Day :thumbsup:
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=35888.0