2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: ren on January 23, 2020, 07:25:23 PM
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https://www.kitv.com/story/41605609/hawaiis-attorney-general-announces-lawsuit-over-release-of-3dprinted-guns (https://www.kitv.com/story/41605609/hawaiis-attorney-general-announces-lawsuit-over-release-of-3dprinted-guns)
it's not that simple as many believe...this isn't Star Trek and a 3d printer is not a replicator.
"tea hot" - CPT Picard
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You could ban making them but you cab't ban release of ideas and information like this
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You could ban making them but you cab't ban release of ideas and information like this
You can ban it. You just have a real hard time trying to enforce the ban.
We have lots of software and engineering information that's prohibited or controlled when exporting to a foreign person, company or gov't agency.
Encryption software comes to mind as an example.
So, if 3D CAD plans are banned for certain projects (firearms parts), it would b enforced just like copyright and digital rights media laws: when careless violators are identified.
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You can ban it. You just have a real hard time trying to enforce the ban.
We have lots of software and engineering information that's prohibited or controlled when exporting to a foreign person, company or gov't agency.
Encryption software comes to mind as an example.
So, if 3D CAD plans are banned for certain projects (firearms parts), it would b enforced just like copyright and digital rights media laws: when careless violators are identified.
I understand that intellectual property is protected at various levels and that of course some information is protected by the government but I think this goes beyond a specific program and is not a copyrighted material either.
The government cannot ban books like the anarchist handbook, they cannot arrest you for telling another person what chemicals to mix to form a bomb. Of course a chemical recipe is a bit simpler than the instructions to print a firearm.
Books are not printed by computers based off of a computer file, do you think the government can legally prevent someone from printing the book where they couldn't prevent it being written by hand? I know a specific material like classified information could be regulated but the idea of banning a whole type of information seems problematic.
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I understand that intellectual property is protected at various levels and that of course some information is protected by the government but I think this goes beyond a specific program and is not a copyrighted material either.
The government cannot ban books like the anarchist handbook, they cannot arrest you for telling another person what chemicals to mix to form a bomb. Of course a chemical recipe is a bit simpler than the instructions to print a firearm.
Books are not printed by computers based off of a computer file, do you think the government can legally prevent someone from printing the book where they couldn't prevent it being written by hand? I know a specific material like classified information could be regulated but the idea of banning a whole type of information seems problematic.
Why are you talking about books?
This is about digital CAD files that permit 3D printing.
We are not talking about national security classifications, but classes of materials and information. For example, PGP encryption software was listed under the classification of munitions to control its export.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_from_the_United_States
"Seems problematic" is purely your opinion. The fact is, there are classes of information that are banned, regulated, restricted or otherwise controlled by law.
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STL files
But lawmakers have little understanding if any about additive manufacturing.
I dont have any experience with CAD 2 years ago when I started 3d printing. The design process has a steep learning curve. I only use FreeCAD and though there are way better CAD programs like Solidworks and Fusion 360 it takes another effort to learn them.
Additive manufacturing parts have their weaknesses.
A person would still need to learn how to print the part. Heat, extrusion parameters, speed, support where needed, retraction paraneters are just some items you need to know. You can waste hours and spools of filament learning.
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Why are you talking about books?
This is about digital CAD files that permit 3D printing.
We are not talking about national security classifications, but classes of materials and information. For example, PGP encryption software was listed under the classification of munitions to control its export.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_from_the_United_States
"Seems problematic" is purely your opinion. The fact is, there are classes of information that are banned, regulated, restricted or otherwise controlled by law.
A CAD file is a series of instructions for a computerized machine, a recipe book (for example) is a series of instructions for people. And a CAD file is not a program but a set of instructions for the program to execute.
I am not saying there are no grounds for regulating information but it runs the something that could be a slippery slope. Where do you draw the line between speech and a computer program when both contain instructions or information? What about blueprints?
Do you think the government could legally ban the public from having a computer program with a password?
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STL files
But lawmakers have little understanding if any about additive manufacturing.
I dont have any experience with CAD 2 years ago when I started 3d printing. The design process has a steep learning curve. I only use FreeCAD and though there are way better CAD programs like Solidworks and Fusion 360 it takes another effort to learn them.
Additive manufacturing parts have their weaknesses.
A person would still need to learn how to print the part. Heat, extrusion parameters, speed, support where needed, retraction paraneters are just some items you need to know. You can waste hours and spools of filament learning.
If I were going to make a plastic gun I would just start with blocks of plastic and build one with power tools and hand tools.
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A CAD file is a series of instructions for a computerized machine, a recipe book (for example) is a series of instructions for people. And a CAD file is not a program but a set of instructions for the program to execute.
I am not saying there are no grounds for regulating information but it runs the something that could be a slippery slope. Where do you draw the line between speech and a computer program when both contain instructions or information? What about blueprints?
Do you think the government could legally ban the public from having a computer program with a password?
no it is not. For 3d printers and desktop CNCs they require a slicer as it won't understand anything from a CAD program. Computer Aided Design (CAD) is an application used to model objects as the name implies in a defined space. Application files are proprietary from one to another. To get a 3d printer and other CNC machines to execute you need to translate what you created in CAD to language it can understand. The process is CAD to an STL file (bunch of triangles) then to a slicer (GCode) then to the machine. Even after you design something you need to ensure it is properly meshed together.
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If I were going to make a plastic gun I would just start with blocks of plastic and build one with power tools and hand tools.
that's really a better solution but how would you contain the pressure of the cartridge?
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STL files
But lawmakers have little understanding if any about additive manufacturing.
And same for urinalysts. Engineering and math are mysterious things to be feared.
They truly seem to think is is some magical thing, but then they live in a world of fantasy.
3D CAD is a big jump from 2D, never had the urge to really try. Solid modeling has an enormously steep learning curve.
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that's really a better solution but how would you contain the pressure of the cartridge?
Did the HPD troll really write what you quoted?
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Did the HPD troll really write what you quoted?
I suppose so. It seems better than an additive 3d printer. Blocks pf plastic would be like billets versus thermally fused, layered material. SLA printing might produce a better end item. I never had any experience with those printers, just read about them.
Since we are on this subject, I'm looking at this Prusa mini https://www.prusa3d.com/original-prusa-mini/ (https://www.prusa3d.com/original-prusa-mini/) it's a really good price at $350 and it seems on par or better than a Lulzbot Mini 2 at almost 4 times the price. I don't like the Mini's head. I had to get a silicone sock to prevent it from cooling while printing
ANyone have a Prusa? I have heard good things about them
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I suppose so. It seems better than an additive 3d printer. Blocks pf plastic would be like billets versus thermally fused, layered material. SLA printing might produce a better end item. I never had any experience with those printers, just read about them.
Since we are on this subject, I'm looking at this Prusa mini https://www.prusa3d.com/original-prusa-mini/ (https://www.prusa3d.com/original-prusa-mini/) it's a really good price at $350 and it seems on par or better than a Lulzbot Mini 2 at almost 4 times the price. I don't like the Mini's head. I had to get a silicone sock to prevent it from cooling while printing
ANyone have a Prusa? I have heard good things about them
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https://www.kitv.com/story/41605609/hawaiis-attorney-general-announces-lawsuit-over-release-of-3dprinted-guns (https://www.kitv.com/story/41605609/hawaiis-attorney-general-announces-lawsuit-over-release-of-3dprinted-guns)
it's not that simple as many believe...this isn't Star Trek and a 3d printer is not a replicator.
"tea hot" - CPT Picard
i'm shocked darmock hasn't corrected your quote yet
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i'm shocked darmock hasn't corrected your quote yet
ahhh soo...
That's right it was Shinzon that said "Tea, hot" in Nemesis.
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that's really a better solution but how would you contain the pressure of the cartridge?
Assuming I want the gun to not contain much metal I would have to have a composite barrel...
I am just going off the top of my head here but my first thought would be a thick piece of a strong plastic like Delrin and drill a hole matching the bullet size. But because it probably could not contain the pressure unless very thick I would wrap the barrel in a fiberglass or carbon fiber type material to give it extra strength. A carbon fiber reinforced hard wood might work as well. The trigger mechanism would be pretty easy, a rubber band activating a plastic hammer tipped with a small bit of metal to ignite the primer. Probably be a breach loading single shot pistol.
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A CAD file is a series of instructions for a computerized machine, a recipe book (for example) is a series of instructions for people. And a CAD file is not a program but a set of instructions for the program to execute.
Uh, as someone who has extensive experience with Computer Aided Design, that’s not how CAD works. As well as someone who is very familiar with CNC machining, Computer Aided Manufacturing (CAM) software (like Fusion 360) is what is needed. Or Computer Aided Engineering (CAE). The basis for that is the CAD file, as mentioned previously, but that is the template, not the sequence.
When being condescending, it usually helps to have the info correct.
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Uh, as someone who has extensive experience with Computer Aided Design, that’s not how CAD works. As well as someone who is very familiar with CNC machining, Computer Aided Manufacturing (CAM) software (like Fusion 360) is what is needed. Or Computer Aided Engineering (CAE). The basis for that is the CAD file, as mentioned previously, but that is the template, not the sequence.
When being condescending, it usually helps to have the info correct.
It is always entertaining to watch an amateur know-it-all lecture IT software and hardware professionals on how computers work.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Uh, as someone who has extensive experience with Computer Aided Design, that’s not how CAD works. As well as someone who is very familiar with CNC machining, Computer Aided Manufacturing (CAM) software (like Fusion 360) is what is needed. Or Computer Aided Engineering (CAE). The basis for that is the CAD file, as mentioned previously, but that is the template, not the sequence.
When being condescending, it usually helps to have the info correct.
*cough* mansplain *cough*
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It is always entertaining to watch an amateur know-it-all lecture IT software and hardware professionals on how computers work.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Yeah, he tried to do that with me a while back. We got into a disagreement about how software works and how it is written. Considering I was a software developer/script writer and software/hardware tester for 12 years, his ignorance and reluctance to admit he really doesn’t know what he is talking about in this subject is quite amazing to me. By trying to rationalize things he knows little about, he makes himself look foolish and quite ignorant about facts he claims to know about.
:crazy: :crazy: :crazy:
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Yeah, he tried to do that with me a while back. We got into a disagreement about how software works and how it is written. Considering I was a software developer/script writer and software/hardware tester for 12 years, his ignorance and reluctance to admit he really doesn’t know what he is talking about in this subject is quite amazing to me. By trying to rationalize things he knows little about, he makes himself look foolish and quite ignorant about facts he claims to know about.
:crazy: :crazy: :crazy:
Many people I meet have never been taught the basic lessons in life.
One that comes to mind is:
It's not an embarrassment to admit you don't know something. It is an embarrassment to pretend you know something, because those who do know will expose you.
Learn to say, "I don't know". You can promise to find out later, but don't fall for the premise that you're not measuring up by having gaps in your knowledge.
This especially applies to hard sciences like computer programming and engineering. The field of knowledge is so broad and ever-changing, one person can't possibly learn or remember it all.
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Many people I meet have never been taught the basic lessons in life.
One that comes to mind is:
It's not an embarrassment to admit you don't know something. It is an embarrassment to pretend you know something, because those who do know will expose you.
Learn to say, "I don't know". You can promise to find out later, but don't fall for the premise that you're not measuring up by having gaps in your knowledge.
This especially applies to hard sciences like computer programming and engineering. The field of knowledge is so broad and ever-changing, one person can't possibly learn or remember it all.
In this day and age of information ubiquity, there is little reason NOT to know. The internet has helped me in a lot of ways. Youtube helped me get through some telecomm topics. The simplest concept that helped me get through is that machines talk to each other based on ideas of how we humans communicate to each other. There are different languages, protocols, mediums and with all that there are nuances that need to be understood. OSI model? Why is the Air Force in this class?
I was that perceived Asian kid who brought the grade curve down so I needed to catch up a lot. I had academic legs of a midget in a marathon full of tree trunk runners.
Information is beamed out everywhere...just gotta know how to grab it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oG_G6rZHp1A
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In this day and age of information ubiquity, there is little reason NOT to know. The internet has helped me in a lot of ways. Youtube helped me get through some telecomm topics. The simplest concept that helped me get through is that machines talk to each other based on ideas of how we humans communicate to each other. There are different languages, protocols, mediums and with all that there are nuances that need to be understood. OSI model? Why is the Air Force in this class?
I was that perceived Asian kid who brought the grade curve down so I needed to catch up a lot. I had academic legs of a midget in a marathon full of tree trunk runners.
Information is beamed out everywhere...just gotta know how to grab it
Yep. It helps to be curious. You need to be motivated to seek out that which interests you and take time to assimilate it.
Waiting for someone to teach you about 3D printer technology on a gun rights forum is the worst kind of lazy. :rofl:
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It is always entertaining to watch an amateur know-it-all lecture IT software and hardware professionals on how computers work.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
I have a lot of fun when you guys go into computers.
I'm not going to compare brain pans. I'll just say you
guys are "users" not designers.
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I have a lot of fun when you guys go into computers.
I'm not going to compare brain pans. I'll just say you
guys are "users" not designers.
TRON
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I have a lot of fun when you guys go into computers.
I'm not going to compare brain pans. I'll just say you
guys are "users" not designers.
Don't lump me into that category.
My forte is integration, "problem solving" and design.
There are systems I've built from COTS and GNU applications still in use after 2 decades which can't be replaced with new products without degrading capabilities and reliability.
Just saying ...
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TRON
TROFF
Beginners All Symbolic Instruction Code, an interpreter language.
Slow execution.
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Don't lump me into that category.
My forte is integration, "problem solving" and design.
There are systems I've built from COTS and GNU applications still in use after 2 decades which can't be replaced with new products without degrading capabilities and reliability.
Just saying ...
Wasn't trying to insult anybody.
I designed prototype hardware and real time software
in the Aerospace industry. Some of my stuff flew
on Commercial
aircraft( NOT 737 MAX).
I can even fix 1930's tube stuff.
Do you know what B+ is? It
hurts if you ground it out with your
finger.
Or VHDL?
Anybody that has a grasp of simple Logic, Math, and
people skills can go a long way in the "High Tech" industry.
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I found a silo in Waipahu Mauka
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-E5JARgmUEpA%2FUPzZ2wtYKrI%2FAAAAAAAABSQ%2Fw3meLz3OPPU%2Fs1600%2Fphoto%2B%2525286%252529.JPG&f=1&nofb=1)
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Wasn't trying to insult anybody.
I designed prototype hardware and real time software
in the Aerospace industry. Some of my stuff flew
on Commercial
aircraft( NOT 737 MAX).
I can even fix 1930's tube stuff.
Do you know what B+ is? It
hurts if you ground it out with your
finger.
Or VHDL?
Anybody that has a grasp of simple Logic, Math, and
people skills can go a long way in the "High Tech" industry.
B+? Is that your GPA?
:rofl:
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When being condescending, it usually helps to have the info correct.
Was some liberal trying to explain engineering?
LOL!!
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I suppose so. It seems better than an additive 3d printer. Blocks pf plastic would be like billets versus thermally fused, layered material. SLA printing might produce a better end item. I never had any experience with those printers,
We had parts made by stereo lithography 20+ years ago to do fit and sanity checks. As I recall, the laser hardened resin was extremely brittle. We would need to thread bosses in it and to often break the damn part.
The SLA stuff we got was not good for anything beyond looking and feeling what the future part was like.
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Do you know what B+ is? It
hurts if you ground it out with your
finger.
Not familiar with B+, but I've heard of B (predecessor to C Programming Language).
The "ground" reference tells me it's hardware. I know there's a Raspberry 3 version called B+. That's as much as I could try to guess.
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I have a lot of fun when you guys go into computers.
I'm not going to compare brain pans. I'll just say you
guys are "users" not designers.
I worked on portions of code for enterprise security protocol translation software for Cisco routers, I worked as a software and hardware test engineer as well as a DVT engineer for DSL, enterprise SAN routers, and other SAN products. Sadly pretty much all the technology I worked from 1996-2008 is completely obsolete.
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Wasn't trying to insult anybody.
I designed prototype hardware and real time software
in the Aerospace industry. Some of my stuff flew
on Commercial
aircraft( NOT 737 MAX).
I can even fix 1930's tube stuff.
Do you know what B+ is? It
hurts if you ground it out with your
finger.
Or VHDL?
Anybody that has a grasp of simple Logic, Math, and
people skills can go a long way in the "High Tech" industry.
Tubes
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TROFF
Beginners All Symbolic Instruction Code, an interpreter language.
Slow execution.
I took FORTRAN in college. A small step up from punch cards 😝
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It is always entertaining to watch an amateur know-it-all lecture IT software and hardware professionals on how computers work.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
:rofl:
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*cough* mansplain *cough*
Would’ve been mansplaining if the info was correct.
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Was some liberal trying to explain engineering?
LOL!!
Trying, it failing...
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B+? Is that your GPA?
:rofl:
Good one. Actually it was at both High school and University.
Calculus really cost me on the grade averages( and working
while going to school).
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Good one. Actually it was at both High school and University.
Calculus really cost me on the grade averages( and working
while going to school).
Yeah. I had 2 F grades from the semester when my apartment complex was leveled by a gas leak explosion.
I was taking 2 computer classes from the strictest CSCI professor there. He told me he would not give me an incomplete because he didn't think I could make up the work over the Summer months.
I wound up taking both classes that Summer session under another professor and received an A+ in both.
Still graduated on time and was commissioned. Cost me extra bucks to retake the credit hours unnecessarily, but didn't affect my life otherwise.
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I took FORTRAN in college. A small step up from punch cards 😝
When I took FORTRAN, I had to use punch cards.
It was the lowest level programming language offered. Since terminals were not always available, FORTRAN students were not allowed on them.
It was so bad sometimes, you had to put yourself on a waiting list at 3AM for a terminal.
One reason I had my Commodore 64 was to use as a dial-up terminal from off campus. Not sure I'd have passed my 4 programming courses that last semester without it.
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I took FORTRAN in college. A small step up from punch cards 😝
FORTRAN is FORmula TRANslator.
AKA "FORTRASH".
Punch cards were Hollerith cards invented by a soldier
in the civil war.
FORTRAN is really the IBM 360 machine code "Prettied up".
I read most programming languages like you read
the bible.
Every language has it's pluses and minuses.
I thank God I never had to make my living as
a coder. Although I've written 100's of thousands of lines of code.
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Yeah. I had 2 F grades from the semester when my apartment complex was leveled by a gas leak explosion.
I was taking 2 computer classes from the strictest CSCI professor there. He told me he would not give me an incomplete because he didn't think I could make up the work over the Summer months.
I wound up taking both classes that Summer session under another professor and received an A+ in both.
Still graduated on time and was commissioned. Cost me extra bucks to retake the credit hours unnecessarily, but didn't affect my life otherwise.
Schools I went to were private and there was no such thing as A+
One of my Calculus Instructors( an Iranian) had me explain my answers
on an exam in front of the entire class as he was offended by
my wrong answers. Tough school. That is why I switched from a
Math Major to Computer science. At that school anything less
than a "B" in your major eliminated the possibility of a degree
in that major.
I'm not so sure Universities are that tough these days.
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Unfortunately I know what B+ is.
:-\
We are getting old.
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When I took FORTRAN, I had to use punch cards.
It was the lowest level programming language offered. Since terminals were not always available, FORTRAN students were not allowed on them.
It was so bad sometimes, you had to put yourself on a waiting list at 3AM for a terminal.
One reason I had my Commodore 64 was to use as a dial-up terminal from off campus. Not sure I'd have passed my 4 programming courses that last semester without it.
We were the last class to take FORTRAN. I think they transitioned to C after that. Can’t say I remember much from FORTRAN.
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FORTRAN is FORmula TRANslator.
AKA "FORTRASH".
Punch cards were Hollerith cards invented by a soldier
in the civil war.
FORTRAN is really the IBM 360 machine code "Prettied up".
I read most programming languages like you read
the bible.
Every language has it's pluses and minuses.
I thank God I never had to make my living as
a coder. Although I've written 100's of thousands of lines of code.
When I started working, modeling software was by entering coordinates of segments of buildings, line walls. In big buildings, that was a lot of lines. Error checking that was a royal PITA.
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I likely didn't like you guys who brought the grade curve up.
I failed Pascal. First language I learned was BASIC on a Timex Sinclair with a membrane keyboard. Was on sale at Longs for $99. Typing on a membrane sucked.
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When I was commissioned (1984), the AWACS programming shop had just removed the last punch card writers. Still had the readers for existing programs that weren't yet transferred to digital storage.
I spent my first 13 weeks on active duty at Keesler AFB in Biloxi, MS, taking classes on computer software design and implementation. It was a watered down refresher of my 4 years in college.
We used punch cards (better than the models we used in school) and a Honeywell mainframe (close to my school's model).
At my job, we used Fortran, COBOL JOVIAL and a Boeing-created variant of IBM assembler called 4PI Assembler, which of course executed on the airborne 4Pi computer.
My first position was in the Error Analysis and Recovery programming shop. Basically, our code watched for hardware and software malfunctions and took action to isolate and either correct or take offline the offending component. I still have flashbacks of the Hexadecimal Dumps I had to read every afternoon to analyze the hiccups that occurred inflight.
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you guys ole. I remember only using punchcards as scratch paper in elementary school. That's how poor we were. Scratch paper with holes.
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you guys ole. I remember only using punchcards as scratch paper in elementary school. That's how poor we were. Scratch paper with holes.
I've been known to breeze through the card punch room at school just to fish unpunched cards out of the trash or off the machines other students left behind. :geekdanc:
I also may have glued the punches back into a few cards that were barely used -- mostly typos that were tossed before the whole card was punched.
I believe there were 2 bundles of cards at the student store. One was all new cards, and one was sort-of used. The used cards had no punches, but had been used for note cards or other purposes and were about 30% less. I normally used those for debugging, then ran a new set for final execution and grading.
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I likely didn't like you guys who brought the grade curve up.
I failed Pascal. First language I learned was BASIC on a Timex Sinclair with a membrane keyboard. Was on sale at Longs for $99. Typing on a membrane sucked.
I likely didn't like you guys who brought the grade curve up.
I failed Pascal. First language I learned was BASIC on a Timex Sinclair with a membrane keyboard. Was on sale at Longs for $99. Typing on a membrane sucked.
I loved Pascal. I really caught onto recursion quickly, which helped. It was the language we had to use to program our Compiler project, where we actually programmed a compiler based on the professor's requirements.
I think a lot of these subjects hinged on how well the professor tried to explain things, rather than leaving it up to the students to figure out.
Nowadays with the Internet, it's magnitudes easier to learn. I often wonder how much more we could have done in school with that amount of information and examples at our fingertips.
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Uh, as someone who has extensive experience with Computer Aided Design, that’s not how CAD works. As well as someone who is very familiar with CNC machining, Computer Aided Manufacturing (CAM) software (like Fusion 360) is what is needed. Or Computer Aided Engineering (CAE). The basis for that is the CAD file, as mentioned previously, but that is the template, not the sequence.
When being condescending, it usually helps to have the info correct.
I wasn't being condescending, I was trying to illustrate the difference between a program and a data file the program uses. Or am I mistaken, does a CNC machine not have the software and just runs whatever is on the file, including the program itself?
Imagine you had a piece of paper with instructions for someone to mill a piece of aluminum. It would look very different from a set of instructions to a 3D printing machine but in the end you could end up with essentially the same item. So if you can make a CAD file or a 3d printer file (whatever technical name they may have) be made illegal can you not also have it be illegal to tell someone how to mill out a piece of material to make a firearm? A computer file will tell the printer or mill to move left, right, up or down some distance then move along a certain axis a set distance. If I was at a mill and you stood over my shoulder telling me to move the piece 2mm to the right then 2mm down, the same thing is happening but instead of the instructions being on a computer file they are in your head or on a piece of paper.
So if they can ban a set of instructions for a computer, what stops them from banning a set of instructions for a person? Could they not then make it illegal to tell someone how to make a firearm altogether?
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I wasn't being condescending, I was trying to illustrate the difference between a program and a data file the program uses.
Or am I mistaken, does a CNC machine not have the software and just runs whatever is on the file, including its own standalone program?
You get a "C-" on your answer/question/knowledge.
You're talking about CNC machines. Before we were talking about 3D printers. Is it your understanding the two are interchangeable?
In order for a CNC machine to properly operate, it must not only follow the design of the intended item to be formed, but it must also monitor the positioning and relative distance from the origin, as well as ensure the desired actions are within the parameters of what the machine is capable of.
CNC – Computer Numerical Control – Taking digitized data, a computer and CAM program is used to
control, automate, and monitor the movements of a machine. The machine can be a milling machine, lathe,
router, welder, grinder, laser or waterjet cutter, sheet metal stamping machine, robot, or many other types of
machines. For larger industrial machines, the computer is generally an on-board dedicated controller. But for
more hobbyist types of machines, or with some retrofits, the computer can be an external PC. The CNC controller
works together with a series of motors and drive components to move and control the machine axes, executing
the programmed motions. On the industrial machines there is usually a sophisticated feedback system that
constantly monitors and adjusts the cutter's speed and position.
So, any input data must be reviewed and possibly updated to be within the capabilities of any given CNC setup.
CAM – Computer Aided Machining or Manufacturing – Refers to the use of various software packages to create
toolpaths and NC code to run a CNC controlled machine, based on 3D computer model (CAD) data. When the
two are used together, this is generally referred to as CAD/CAM.
Note: CAM does not actually run the CNC machine, but just creates code for it to follow. It is also not an automatic
operation that imports your CAD model and spits out the correct NC code. CAM programming, like 3D modeling,
requires knowledge and experience in running the program, developing machining strategies, and knowing what
tools and operations to use in each situation to get the best results. While there are simple programs that for the
inexperienced user to get started without too much difficulty, more sophisticated models will take an investment in
time and money to become proficient.
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I don't have the extensive CNC and design background as others here but this is what 3d printers that I work with (Lulzbot, Ultimaker and Shapeoko CNCs) use
G-Code
example:
11 G1 F900 X197.600 Y29.900 E19.82400
11 → Indicates the line of code and is used for reference
G -command
F → Speed
X/Y/Z → Coordinates
E → Feeder movement
So it is similar to a sentence. Tells the printer where and how to print. There are other commands for heat, temp, retraction speed, retraction length etc.
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When I was commissioned (1984), the AWACS programming shop had just removed the last punch card writers. Still had the readers for existing programs that weren't yet transferred to digital storage.
I spent my first 13 weeks on active duty at Keesler AFB in Biloxi, MS, taking classes on computer software design and implementation. It was a watered down refresher of my 4 years in college.
We used punch cards (better than the models we used in school) and a Honeywell mainframe (close to my school's model).
At my job, we used Fortran, COBOL JOVIAL and a Boeing-created variant of IBM assembler called 4PI Assembler, which of course executed on the airborne 4Pi computer.
My first position was in the Error Analysis and Recovery programming shop. Basically, our code watched for hardware and software malfunctions and took action to isolate and either correct or take offline the offending component. I still have flashbacks of the Hexadecimal Dumps I had to read every afternoon to analyze the hiccups that occurred inflight.
Flapp you will like this.
I spent 10 months at Kessler in 1973-74. Avionics repair school.
I graduated with a BS in Computer Science in 1990 and the USA tried to recruit me.
Dumb shits didn't realize I had already spent over 5 years in the USAF Vietnam era.
You are lucky you only had to deal with Hex dumps I had to deal with
binary core dumps on a DEC PDP8A at my job with an Aero space company.
I also helped certify AWACS OTAN aircraft.
Last but not least Ren, PASCAL is probably my favorite
programming language. Sorry you had trouble with it.
it really enforces strong "Type checking".
Since my Fort'e is real time software design
I'd use "C", assembly languages, or Micro code
for my projects.
CNC and Printers are a "Cake walk".
My first language was ASM 80. That is 8080 assembly language.
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Flapp you will like this.
I spent 10 months at Kessler in 1973-74. Avionics repair school.
I graduated with a BS in Computer Science in 1990 and the USA tried to recruit me.
Dumb shits didn't realize I had already spent over 5 years in the USAF Vietnam era.
You are lucky you only had to deal with Hex dumps I had to deal with
binary core dumps on a DEC PDP8A at my job with an Aero space company.
I also helped certify AWACS OTAN aircraft.
Last but not least Ren, PASCAL is probably my favorite
programming language. Sorry you had trouble with it.
it really enforces strong "Type checking".
Since my Fort'e is real time software design
I'd use "C", assembly languages, or Micro code
for my projects.
CNC and Printers are a "Cake walk".
My first language was ASM 80. That is 8080 assembly language.
I never said I had a problem with PASCAL. I only had a problem with the first professor who failed me rather than issue an incomplete.
I believe those were for Assembler/Machine language and COBOL.
I had 2 incomplete grades that same semester from other classes and made good final grades.
My mistake for not predicting I'd have my apartment complex explode and have no place to live 3 days after I moved in.
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you guys are old. :rofl:
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you guys are old. :rofl:
And, your point? :geekdanc:
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All i know about 3D printing is that its not as simple as going file, then down to print, then hit ok.
Im sure this is what law makers think.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
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You get a "C-" on your answer/question/knowledge.
You're talking about CNC machines. Before we were talking about 3D printers. Is it your understanding the two are interchangeable?
In order for a CNC machine to properly operate, it must not only follow the design of the intended item to be formed, but it must also monitor the positioning and relative distance from the origin, as well as ensure the desired actions are within the parameters of what the machine is capable of.
So, any input data must be reviewed and possibly updated to be within the capabilities of any given CNC setup.
I understand the difference between a CNC milling machine and a 3D printer. I realized I may not have used correct technical jargon in the begging but my point did not rest on the difference between one type of computer automated manufacturing device and another.
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All i know about 3D printing is that its not as simple as going file, then down to print, then hit ok.
Im sure this is what law makers think.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Agreed.
I really wouldn't even trust most 3D printing machines to be able to build most of the key components to a firearm. I am sure the trigger would function fine but wouldn't trust a barrel or mechanism.
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https://youtu.be/H07qABk9GKs
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https://youtu.be/xa87kudAVFs
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And, your point? :geekdanc:
You guys accumulated a lot of knowledge for younger peeps to catch up to :thumbsup: It's like a race where you guys got 2 miles head start.
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I likely didn't like you guys who brought the grade curve up.
I failed Pascal. First language I learned was BASIC on a Timex Sinclair with a membrane keyboard. Was on sale at Longs for $99. Typing on a membrane sucked.
Even the homie in New Jack City know to program Pascal. . . :rofl:
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Even the homie in New Jack City know to program Pascal. . . :rofl:
You not my frwen.
in New Jack he asked Pookie if he could code Pascal. Get it right G Money.
(https://legacy.shadowandact.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/new-jack-city.jpg)
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I was at a tech convention in TX 3 yrs ago and there was a booth there that was printing with sintered titanium particles suspended in a liquid medium and then post curing it in an oven to create fully functional titanium prototype pieces. resolution was way more accurate than 3d printing plastics, only post finish was tossing it in a tumbler. Its not yet at a consumer price point, but it will be soon enough. Cat's out of the bag after that.
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I was at a tech convention in TX 3 yrs ago and there was a booth there that was printing with sintered titanium particles suspended in a liquid medium and then post curing it in an oven to create fully functional titanium prototype pieces. resolution was way more accurate than 3d printing plastics, only post finish was tossing it in a tumbler. Its not yet at a consumer price point, but it will be soon enough. Cat's out of the bag after that.
As the 2nd video I posted shows, that cat is already out of the bag.
With a block of METAL (or any viable material) and a CNC milling machine (with proper design and calibration data), you can produce an AR lower receiver in less than 3 hours. The milling machine is only $250.
Much more cost-effective, I think. Titanium isn't cheap.
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You not my frwen.
in New Jack he asked Pookie if he could code Pascal. Get it right G Money.
Dammit. . . mah bad Nino. How about Kareem, the educated brotha from the bank? ;D
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I was at a tech convention in TX 3 yrs ago and there was a booth there that was printing with sintered titanium particles suspended in a liquid medium and then post curing it in an oven to create fully functional titanium prototype pieces. resolution was way more accurate than 3d printing plastics, only post finish was tossing it in a tumbler. Its not yet at a consumer price point, but it will be soon enough. Cat's out of the bag after that.
I would worry about how strong the bond was because unless you are at titanium forging temperatures I would think it would still rely on some sort of adhesive.
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I would worry about how strong the bond was because unless you are at titanium forging temperatures I would think it would still rely on some sort of adhesive.
Nope. Bonding is at the molecular level. Just like melting but without liquefaction.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sintering
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sounds like SLA printing
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I would worry about how strong the bond was because unless you are at titanium forging temperatures I would think it would still rely on some sort of adhesive.
They were not revealing all the proprietary technology behind the sinitering process, the temperatures to cure werent very high, there may be polymers involved. The parts have to be printed slightly larger because they shrink during curing. The end product was legit, its not a gimmick, they were making one-off custom rigging pieces for high end Americas Cup sailboats among other things. For all purposes it was metal.
As the 2nd video I posted shows, that cat is already out of the bag.
With a block of METAL (or any viable material) and a CNC milling machine (with proper design and calibration data), you can produce an AR lower receiver in less than 3 hours. The milling machine is only $250.
Much more cost-effective, I think. Titanium isn't cheap.
Thats just a lower, which really isnt even a moving part put under stress in a firearm, you could almost carve one out of wood and it would function for its purpose. Once you can print ALL parts of a fire arm and cases the only thing they can try and restrict is smokeless powder and primers.
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They were not revealing all the proprietary technology behind the sinitering process, the temperatures to cure werent very high, there may be polymers involved. The parts have to be printed slightly larger because they shrink during curing. The end product was legit, its not a gimmick, they were making one-off custom rigging pieces for high end Americas Cup sailboats among other things. For all purposes it was metal.
Thats just a lower, which really isnt even a moving part put under stress in a firearm, you could almost carve one out of wood and it would function for its purpose. Once you can print ALL parts of a fire arm and cases the only thing they can try and restrict is smokeless powder and primers.
The issue is whether the AR lower receiver can be created from a "0%" blank by someone without special skills and with inexpensive & readily available machines. If one can acquire the needed equipment and materials legally, then banning 80% lowers is a futile and ridiculous law.
All the moving parts and parts needing to withstand stress are presently not controlled as firearms. Those components would still be available without permits or registrations unless someone decides that's a "loophole", too.
That's when lawmakers begin their trek down the rabbit hole of Socialist countries which confiscate all guns and all gun-making parts or tools in an effort to deprive the public of all guns. Unless they actually ban all semi-autos, there's no need for them to ban all gun parts. Why build when you can find a factory-built firearm?
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The issue is whether the AR lower receiver can be created from a "0%" blank by someone without special skills and with inexpensive & readily available machines. If one can acquire the needed equipment and materials legally, then banning 80% lowers is a futile and ridiculous law.
All the moving parts and parts needing to withstand stress are presently not controlled as firearms. Those components would still be available without permits or registrations unless someone decides that's a "loophole", too.
That's when lawmakers begin their trek down the rabbit hole of Socialist countries which confiscate all guns and all gun-making parts or tools in an effort to deprive the public of all guns. Unless they actually ban all semi-autos, there's no need for them to ban all gun parts. Why build when you can find a factory-built firearm?
read the "ghost gun" bill, it actually does ban all gun parts
and there are multiple bills held over from last session, and one new one this year that contains a grandfather clause, that attempt to ban semi-autos
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read the "ghost gun" bill, it actually does ban all gun parts
and there are multiple bills held over from last session, and one new one this year that contains a grandfather clause, that attempt to ban semi-autos
And then like every other Prohibition that has ever been tried it instantly creates a black market where NOTHING is regulated and criminals war over the massive profits to be had. In the age where they are legalizing drugs because they know they cant stop it I find it hilarious they think outlawing guns will stop some industrious folks from turning that into a very profitable business.
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read the "ghost gun" bill, it actually does ban all gun parts
and there are multiple bills held over from last session, and one new one this year that contains a grandfather clause, that attempt to ban semi-autos
The ban is on purchasing or producing parts for the purpose of assembling a firearm but it specifies those parts as parts which assemble to form a receiver or a combination of parts that if assembled would form a firearm.
So having a trigger by itself would not be a violation. Having all the parts to make a lower could be a violation though and having a part meant to be finished into a receiver would be a violation.
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2020/bills/HB1733_.htm
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The ban is on purchasing or producing parts for the purpose of assembling a firearm but it specifies those parts as parts which assemble to form a receiver or a combination of parts that if assembled would form a firearm.
So having a trigger by itself would not be a violation. Having all the parts to make a lower could be a violation though and having a part meant to be finished into a receiver would be a violation.
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2020/bills/HB1733_.htm
so you're saying if I have ALL the parts it's a violation, but if I only have one part it's not?
"Any combination of parts from which a firearm having no serial number may be readily assembled; provided that the parts do not have the capacity to function as a firearm unless assembled."
and are you telling me all your fellow officers are going to interpret it that way?
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so you're saying if I have ALL the parts it's a violation, but if I only have one part it's not?
"Any combination of parts from which a firearm having no serial number may be readily assembled; provided that the parts do not have the capacity to function as a firearm unless assembled."
and are you telling me all your fellow officers are going to interpret it that way?
I don't know how police will interpret it, I am just telling you what the bill says as it is written. If the bill passes it could say something significantly different as well.
The bill also mentions "for the purpose of" so the police and prosecutors would have to prove that you possessed the parts in order to build a firearm with no serial number. So if you have an AR15 plus an extra trigger group then it wouldn't be a violation.
This does effectively ban unserialized 80% lowers though. The possible loophole in the language is that it has to be for the purpose of building a firearm. So if that 80% lower were actually just made to be finished to be an airsoft gun then you might be able to slide by.
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The questions remains: How many 3d printed guns were used in crimes?
I would say more crimes are committed with knives but how many knife bills are in the Leg?
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The questions remains: How many 3d printed guns were used in crimes?
I would say more crimes are committed with knives but how many knife bills are in the Leg?
Isn't just one too many? We need to ban 3D guns to find out what they really are. It's for the children.
:sarc:
So far that we know of, it's just 1. The Ala Moana parking garage incident. But as we all know, it's not really about curbing violence, it's about restricting the rights of the citizenry and keeping them down
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Isn't just one too many? We need to ban 3D guns to find out what they really are. It's for the children.
:sarc:
So far that we know of, it's just 1. The Ala Moana parking garage incident. But as we all know, it's not really about curbing violence, it's about restricting the rights of the citizenry and keeping them down
the car dealership shooting and ala moana were both allegedly 80%s
no 3D...