2aHawaii
General Topics => Legal and Activism => Topic started by: 2aHawaii on March 08, 2010, 04:26:48 PM
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Hey guys,
I've been doing a little research on concealed carry permits with the Honolulu Police Department and they have been very helpful in helping me dig up some statistics. It looks like, for 2009, there were a total of six concealed carry permits processed. Of those six, and amazing total of zero were approved. I'm sure those of us who keep up with Hawaii's may issue policy aren't surprised by those statistics.
On the other hand, armed security guards are being issued permits and it goes through a separate process than the concealed permit process. The armed guards need to go through training and pass the companies' test proficiency. Then they company sends a letter to HPD, runs a background check and then issues a different type of permit.
I am also in the process of trying to find out when the last concealed carry permit was issued.
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Here are some statewide statistics from Hawaii's .gov site. It looks like someone squeeked through in Kauai in 2006.
2008
Hawaii’s county police departments also process license applications for the open and/or concealed carry of firearms in public. Statewide in 2008, 195 employees of private security firms were issued carry licenses, and one (0.5%) was rejected. One private citizen applied for a concealed carry license and was rejected at the discretion of the respective county police chief.
2007
Hawaii’s county police departments also process license applications for the open and/or concealed carry of firearms in public. Statewide in 2007, 236 employees of private security firms were issued carry licenses, and six (2.5%) were rejected. Seven private citizens applied for a concealed carry license; all were rejected at the sole discretion of the respective county police chiefs.
2006
Hawaii’s county police departments also process license applications for the open and/or concealed carry of firearms in public. Statewide in 2006, 227 employees of private security firms were issued carry licenses, and two (0.9%) were rejected. One private citizen in Kauai County applied for a concealed carry license and was approved at the sole discretion of the police chief.
2005
Hawaii’s county police departments also process license applications for the open and/or concealed carry of firearms in public. Statewide in 2005, 235 employees of private security firms were issued carry licenses, and none were rejected. Six private citizens in the City & County of Honolulu applied for a concealed carry license and were denied at the sole discretion of the police chief.
2004
Hawaii’s county police departments also process license applications for the open and/or concealed carry of firearms in public. Statewide in 2004, 263 employees of private security firms were issued carry licenses and one (0.4%) was rejected due to disqualifying factors. (Notably, 2004 marks the first year in which the rejection rate for security officer carry permits did not exceed the rejection rate for regular longarm and handgun permit applications from the general public.) Five private citizens in the City & County of Honolulu applied for a concealed carry license and were denied at the discretion of the police chief.
2003
The county police departments also process license applications for the open and/or concealed carry of firearms in public. During 2003, 249 employees of security firms were issued carry licenses and seven (2.8%) were rejected due to disqualifying factors. One private citizen also applied for a carry license and was denied at the sole discretion of the police chief.
2002
The county police departments also process license applications for the open and/or concealed carry of firearms in public. During 2002, 239 employees of security firms were issued carry licenses and 6 were rejected due to specific disqualifying factors. Four private citizens also applied for a carry license and were denied at the discretion of the respective police chiefs.
2001
The county police departments also process license applications for the open and/or concealed carry of firearms in public. During 2001, 242 employees of security firms were issued carry licenses and 14 were rejected for cause. Ten private citizens also applied for a carry license; at the discretion of the respective county police chiefs, two applicants were approved and eight were denied.
2000
The county police departments also conduct background checks and process applications for permits to carry firearms in public. During 2000, 190 employees of private security firms were approved for carry permits and four (2.1%) were denied for cause. One private citizen also applied for a carry permit and was denied.
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I guess we need to find out exactly what the guy in Kauai did, and repeat. ;D
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I just found the stats for 2000 and 2001. It looks like a couple more people were approved in 2001, although it doesn't say which county they were approved in.
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I did the same research a while back...too bad I didn't see your post earlier as I have it all somewhere in my office....my next step, which I haven't been able to do, was to request a Freedom of Information act release on all of the approved permits. My reasoning was that a 9th Circuit case (actually two cases) said that while the Chief of Police does have the power to issue CCW permits, he is also required to exercise that discretion. In other words, he cannot just deny all permit applications without reviewing them. Also out of those cases were the decision that issuing criteria, at least within a single jurisdiction, needed to be consistent, i.e., if Joe Smith gets a CCW because he carries large sums of money at night because of his job, then Bob Anycitizen, who also carries large amounts of money at night for his job should also get his CCW application approved. If not then there is disparate treatment of similarily situated individuals and the one denied may have standing to initiate legal proceedings.
So, we need to find out what "need" was used on the approved CCW applications, and compare it to the denied ones. If one or more persons had substantially similar reasons as someone who got the CCW, then he could sue. Similarily, if one knew what "need" resulted in an approved CCW and truthfully had/listed those reasons on a CCW application and was denied, then they too could sue.
Anyone willing to wade thru the paperwork necessary to get the FOI request for the CCWs? If so, I have the info........
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Send me the info and I'll see how far I can get on it. I'll can also try and see if I can get this information out of the guy at HPD.
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I appreciate the research your doing 2aHawaii.
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Send me the info and I'll see how far I can get on it. I'll can also try and see if I can get this information out of the guy at HPD.
Here's the link to a handbook detailing how to use the Hawaii Freedom of Information Act.
http://www.state.hi.us/lrb/par/pub/foi.pdf (http://www.state.hi.us/lrb/par/pub/foi.pdf)
One of the issues about releasing the info may be that it's "privileged" but I recall that in the past there was a determination that (at least in Hawaii) it wasn't. I culdn't find it but it's late and I am just getting back from a 10+ hour flight on a CG C-130 and I'm a bit tired. If I find the info I will get it to you.
Aloha
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Thanks for the handbook. It has some really good information in it.
I'll get on it and see what I can dig up.
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Chief Perry of the Kauai County Police Department has been very helpful. Here is the information that he had for me:
This is what I learned: In the past 15+ years (as long as my firearms clerk has been employed with KPD) only one concealed carry permit was issued by the previous administration in 2006. The circumstances related to viable death threats to a presiding circuit court judge and the permit was effective for only six months; during which time the suspect was apprehended, later convicted and sent to prison.
The news from HPD was also good even if it doesn't give much information. There haven't been any concealed carry permits issued since at least 1997 and the reasons for denial mostly consist of the applicant not meeting the “exceptional case†criteria set forth in the Rules of the Chief of Police. That means that the concealed carry permits from 2001 must have come from the Maui and/or Big Island Police Chief.
I also am trying to see if the AG's office has more concrete information going further back since the reports came from that office.
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Here is the info I was thinking about. It is on the OIP website and is listed in Appendix D of the user guide, decision 90-25, on July 12, 1990.
Here's the link: http://www.state.hi.us/oip/opinionsummaries/opinionsummary%2090-25.html (http://www.state.hi.us/oip/opinionsummaries/opinionsummary%2090-25.html)
Here's the text:
Opinion Letter Summary
Opinion Letter No. 90-25
July 12, 1990
Firearm Permit Applications
The names of registered firearms owners and a description of handguns contained in Firearm
Registration forms maintained by the police department are public under the UIPA; however,
descriptions of long guns and other personal information contained in the registration forms are
confidential and should not be disclosed to the public.
I find it interesting that the description of handguns is disclosable, but not long guns....
However, since the name and handgun description can be disclosed, the info on the CCW permit should be as well, excluding the "other personal information contained in the registration form are confidential..." We'll see if they think information that substantiates the "need" for a CCW is considered confidential.
Good luck!
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Hmmm, that is an interesting opinion and seems to conflict with a newer opinion issued in 2007. It doesn't seem to matter much, though, as the reason for approval of concealed carry permits should be public information because that information doesn't identify the permit holder by name or address or fall under any of those other restricted categories. In my opinion anyway :)
Opinion Letter No. 07-01
February 1, 2007
Firearm Permits
In response to an inquiry from the Honolulu Police Department ("HPD"), OIP concluded that firearm permit information that identifies an individual permit holder by name or address must be deemed to be "registration data" protected under § 134-3(b), HRS, and therefore should be withheld under § 92F-13(4), HRS, of the UIPA. Other permit information that could reasonably identify the individual permit holder (such as the individual's social security number, fingerprints, and photograph) should also be segregated and withheld under the UIPA's frustration exception (§ 92F-13(3)) to maintain the confidentiality of the individual's identity.
OIP concluded that, under the UIPA's privacy exception (§ 92F-13(1)), HPD may generally withhold information that allows the identification of individuals who have been denied permits, as well as those who did not apply for a permit, who did not complete the application process, or who were granted a permit, but allowed it to lapse without acquiring a firearm. OIP noted that circumstances may alter the usual balance between the individual's privacy interests and the public interest in disclosure. Thus, HPD must determine, on a case-by-case basis, whether circumstances diminish the individual's privacy interest and/or give rise to a heightened public interest that tips the balance in favor of disclosure.
In both of the above cases, once identifying information is properly redacted, HPD must disclose the remaining information in an application or application file unless it falls within another exception to disclosure.
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Here is the info I was thinking about. It is on the OIP website and is listed in Appendix D of the user guide, decision 90-25, on July 12, 1990.
Here's the link: http://www.state.hi.us/oip/opinionsummaries/opinionsummary%2090-25.html (http://www.state.hi.us/oip/opinionsummaries/opinionsummary%2090-25.html)
Here's the text:
Opinion Letter Summary
Opinion Letter No. 90-25
July 12, 1990
Firearm Permit Applications
The names of registered firearms owners and a description of handguns contained in Firearm
Registration forms maintained by the police department are public under the UIPA; however,
descriptions of long guns and other personal information contained in the registration forms are
confidential and should not be disclosed to the public.
I find it interesting that the description of handguns is disclosable, but not long guns....
However, since the name and handgun description can be disclosed, the info on the CCW permit should be as well, excluding the "other personal information contained in the registration form are confidential..." We'll see if they think information that substantiates the "need" for a CCW is considered confidential.
Good luck!
Maybe because the letter was written before the 1994 requirement of registering long guns?
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Hmmm, that is an interesting opinion and seems to conflict with a newer opinion issued in 2007. It doesn't seem to matter much, though, as the reason for approval of concealed carry permits should be public information because that information doesn't identify the permit holder by name or address or fall under any of those other restricted categories. In my opinion anyway :)
Opinion Letter No. 07-01
February 1, 2007
Firearm Permits
In response to an inquiry from the Honolulu Police Department ("HPD"), OIP concluded that firearm permit information that identifies an individual permit holder by name or address must be deemed to be "registration data" protected under § 134-3(b), HRS, and therefore should be withheld under § 92F-13(4), HRS, of the UIPA. Other permit information that could reasonably identify the individual permit holder (such as the individual's social security number, fingerprints, and photograph) should also be segregated and withheld under the UIPA's frustration exception (§ 92F-13(3)) to maintain the confidentiality of the individual's identity.
OIP concluded that, under the UIPA's privacy exception (§ 92F-13(1)), HPD may generally withhold information that allows the identification of individuals who have been denied permits, as well as those who did not apply for a permit, who did not complete the application process, or who were granted a permit, but allowed it to lapse without acquiring a firearm. OIP noted that circumstances may alter the usual balance between the individual's privacy interests and the public interest in disclosure. Thus, HPD must determine, on a case-by-case basis, whether circumstances diminish the individual's privacy interest and/or give rise to a heightened public interest that tips the balance in favor of disclosure.
In both of the above cases, once identifying information is properly redacted, HPD must disclose the remaining information in an application or application file unless it falls within another exception to disclosure.
I agree with you about the conflict and that nothing in the recent decision should prevent the disclosure of the stated "need" for the CCW on the application. I actually like the newer decision in that if we ever do get shall-issue, the actual names of of CCW holders would be protected.
Again, good job researching and taking on this little project.....CCW proponants should be sending you their thanks and appreciation!
Thanks!
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More info....seems in 1995 OIP decided, in response to a request for a list of CCW holders from Chief Nakamura, that ALL information related to CCW holders was confidential.
http://www.state.hi.us/oip/opinionletters/opinion%2095-18.pdf
However, in the 2007 opinion (you have to wade thru the full text version) you listed, it stated that:
OIP believes it is constrained, absent further legislative direction, to read the permitting statute and section 134-9, the concealed weapon licensing section, consistent with the registration statute to protect identifying information made confidential under that statute. See OIP Op. Ltr. No. 95-18. It appears clear, however, that the legislature did not specifically address the release of identifying information under those statutes. For example, if the legislature had specifically intended to protect identifiable Permit Information as "registration data," it would seemingly have used broader language to include information under the permitting statute and would not have limited its protective language to names and addresses. See Haw. Rev. Stat. § 134-3(b) (confidentiality provision directly follows listing of what should be included on registration form and only protects information identifying individual by name and address, which are the only identifying entries on the registration form but not in the Permit Information). Moreover, it could very well be that the legislature did not intend to protect the identity of registered firearm owners who are subsequently granted licenses to carry concealed weapons because of greater public interest in knowing the identity of these persons. For these reasons, OIP suggests that amendment of the statutes would be helpful to clarify and/or confirm what information under sections 134-2 and 134-9 the legislature intends to be confidential.
Now, as I have said before, IANAL, but I read this to say the the OIP thinks the 1995 decision is flawed and overbroad in that it says all information on CCW "Licenses" is protected, but is "constrained" to abide with it. This seems to contradict the 2007 decision requiring release of permit information with redactation of name and address. In the 2007 decision it stated the public interest determination may be swayed if the request for information has a legitimate concern for shedding light on the performance of an Agency. So, it seems that in any new attempt to get the info pertaining to the "need" listed on a CCW application, that said request is a general request (versus a request related to a specific permit/license holder). And that if denied, the appeal be on the basis of needing to evaluate the process the Chief of Police uses to determine who gets a CCW because of the apparent lack of the required exercise of discretion (he must review all applications and cannot just reject them all) and the apparent disparate treatment of similarily situated applicants.
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I got responses from the Hawaii County and Maui County Police Departments today and both of them claim to have not issued any concealed carry permits.
Captain Rapoza of the Hawaii County Police Department had this to say:
To the best of our knowledge, our department as not granted any request to carry a concealed firearm, and has no intent on granting future request without meeting the requirements of the Hawaii Revised Statutes, Chapter 134-9. The Police Chief reviews all requests and makes the final determination. The laws governing the carrying of a firearm are very stringent in the State of Hawaii. Thank you for seeking the information from our department.
The email I got from the Maui County Police Department was very interesting and I don't know if Christopher Schmitt actually works for the Department. His email simply stated:
We do not issue concealed carry permits in the county of Maui.
I am trying to investigate the latter one more. Since we still don't have anyone that lays claim to the two permits issued in 2001, someone must have the incorrect information. Unfortunately the report provided by the state for 2001 doesn't mention which county or counties okayed the applications. Any ideas?
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I just got a more in depth answer from the Maui County Police Department:
Once again, we do not and have not issued concealed carry permits in the past 15 years at least. The only possible exceptions would be county prosecutors at the Chief of Police’s discretion. If any prosecutors were actually issued the permit, I am unable to release any information regarding any specific person or permit.
Once again, I plan to follow up with this as this is the probable source of the permits issued in 2001.
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I would definitely keep that one from Maui that says they don't issue concealed carry permits. It could come in handy if a future lawsuit, based on prior cases in the 9th Circuit decisions, comes to fruition.
I also thought that the AG's report on permits issued included the county, as I recall the one that mentioned the Kauai one. I wonder if HPD is taking the position that they do not need to acknowledge the issuance of permits/CCWs, sorta like the "I can neither confirm or deny..." statements.........
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Interesting thread you have here... That one person denied in 2008? Yeah that was me... I actually was never told that I was denied. They never sent me back anything. I know they got it, though... My friend who works in firearms found the letter I sent in folded up in my file.
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Interesting thread you have here... That one person denied in 2008? Yeah that was me... I actually was never told that I was denied. They never sent me back anything. I know they got it, though... My friend who works in firearms found the letter I sent in folded up in my file.
Your friend, can he tell if there was ever any actual review of your application, or was it just throw into your file as if it was denied without the required review?
And, if you don't mind sharing, and I understand why you might not want to, what was your reason or cause for the need of the CCW?
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At the time I was employed as a photographer. I routinely carried on my person, camera equipment totaling well over $20,000 in value. I often had to go into shady neighborhoods and sometimes deal with some unscrupulous people. My friend at firearms also told me he had no idea if it was ever looked over. He said it was just in there all by it's unaltered lonesome, with no annotations or notes attached.
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FYI,
the only person to be issued a concealed carry permit to my knowledge.................Believe it or not.....Larry mehau. I found it on a web page, Which no longer exists I have found. The one and only one permit I know of. I dont know if he still has it.
Pastor Dennis Martin
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FYI,
the only person to be issued a concealed carry permit to my knowledge.................Believe it or not.....Larry mehau. I found it on a web page, Which no longer exists I have found. The one and only one permit I know of. I dont know if he still has it.
Pastor Dennis Martin
Personally, I wouldn't doubt it a bit.....that is the inherent problem with "May Issue" permits. It allows for political and social influences to substitute for "good cause" while the rest of us "regular citizens" are denied the rights we should be able to exercise.
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It is surprising to me how few applicants there have been. Maybe that's actually a problem for us. HPD can always claim that there's been "no interest" in carrying. Maybe we should all go down and fill out an application, at least get someone to raise an eyebrow!
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Is it free to apply? From the HRS, it looks like it is and you only pay after you get the permit.
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Free to apply, and I doubt Larry still has his permit, seeing as they expire after one year. As for applications, they don't exist. Thats why I had to write a letter to the Chief to "apply"
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It is surprising to me how few applicants there have been. Maybe that's actually a problem for us. HPD can always claim that there's been "no interest" in carrying. Maybe we should all go down and fill out an application, at least get someone to raise an eyebrow!
While I tend to agree, if you apply and are denied (high probability) then on any other application for concealed carry (like a non-resident Utah or Florida permit) you must disclose that fact, which may or may not weigh against you in that process.
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I think we're asking the wrong questions of the police departments. They say they "haven't approved any requests" for carry permits. Maybe true, but the real questions, IMO, are:
"How many current license holders are there, and what are their names?" "How many licenses were renewed, and what are the names of the licensees."
Notice the wording of the Police Chief's response: "To the best of our knowledge, our department has not granted any request to carry a concealed firearm, and has no intent on granting future request without meeting the requirements of the Hawaii Revised Statutes, Chapter 134-9"
The "without meeting the requirements of the Hawaii Revised Statutes" is the key part of this phrase. It invalidates every thing that comes before it, meaning that he may have issued permits to people the DO meet the requirements of HRS. it also opens the possibility that the Chief issued a license without a formal 'request'.
According to all the 'answers' here from the Chief's, there are' ZERO' persons, (other than armed guards and LEO's) licensed to carry firearms here in Hawaii. I find that hard to believe.
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Alohachris,
The numbers match the public numbers put out by the Department of the Attorney General. To my understanding, the number of issued/applied for carry permits must be communicated by law to the AG's office and the AG's office puts out public statistics in a report during the year following. I wouldn't believe either of these departments to lie about their numbers.
HRS 134-9 also talks about an applicant. That means that someone cannot just be issued a carry permit. They need to submit a request.
Lastly, carry permits are valid for only one year. Since there have been no issuances of carry permits for a few years, I think it is reasonable to say that no private citizens have a concealed carry permit.
Those are just my thoughts, though.
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Hi Guys,
Just to muddle the waters more;
Years ago and I mean Many years ago, under City & County "rules". all requirements and tests for CCW
were public record and WAS availible at the City Clerks Office. I should have gotten them when I could.
Later, they were pulled by HPD and no longer public record. I was working for the City and asked contacts in the Mayor's Office of Info and Complaints to find them. Nope, No Way. HPD said since CCW permits aren't issued, no Need for the public to know about them.
FWIW, I do recall seeing some of them. The range requirements were the Same qualifiers as a regular HPD officer. This is when HPD actually kept shooting scores, not pass fail as they do now(or so I'm told).
Now, as for applying and getting rejected. If you ever apply for an Out of State CCW permit, the rejection by HPD Must be revealed on that state's application, IF they ask for it. If not, you're OK. If asked, you may have to explain Why you were rejected. This may result in your Not getting that State's non resident CCW permit.
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Now, as for applying and getting rejected. If you ever apply for an Out of State CCW permit, the rejection by HPD Must be revealed on that state's application, IF they ask for it. If not, you're OK. If asked, you may have to explain Why you were rejected. This may result in your Not getting that State's non resident CCW permit.
See that's the part that worries me the most.
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Gentlemen, please forward all documents related to this topic if you can to chris@hawaiiccw.com
I want to take a look at this (which was part of my reasoning by the post of "what do you want to know.")
All help is appreciated!
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So let me get this straight, In the State of Hawaii we are at the mercy of the Chief of Police for CCW??? Thats messed up!!!! As a United States Citizen i feel that this is against our Constitutional Rights. Cmon HPD how many more poor innocent people are gonna get hurt before u allow us responsible gun owners to legally carry our firearms.
Fellow 2A members i know that i am new but i am a voice that needs to be heard.
Aloha,
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So let me get this straight, In the State of Hawaii we are at the mercy of the Chief of Police for CCW??? Thats messed up!!!! As a United States Citizen i feel that this is against our Constitutional Rights. Cmon HPD how many more poor innocent people are gonna get hurt before u allow us responsible gun owners to legally carry our firearms.
Fellow 2A members i know that i am new but i am a voice that needs to be heard.
Aloha,
Stand with me, and you will be heard.
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Not sure if this helps but I did inquire about a CCW at my local police dept on Maui. The employees there know me well enough by name because of the volume of guns I bring in for registration.
I asked the clerk about applying for a CCW and she told me that it would be very difficult to be approved and would likely be denied. I still showed interest and she told me I would have to take a pistol certification test to see if I qualify because there is a score to meet. I didn't get told that I would have to write a letter to the Chief. I haven't followed up on it yet because I haven't found time to take a pistol qualification test.
The thing that confuses me is that they know I have several handguns/revolvers and the pistol certification test isn't the same as the pistol course needed to apply for permits. I'm really wondering what the score and requirements are to get the CCW with the test.
BTW: This is my second account on the forum; for some reason I can't log in with my original account because of a validation error. :wtf:
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Sorry to hear that you're having a tough time over there. Please send myself and Funtimes a PM as well so that we can try to provide any other assistance that we can. Regarding the pistol test, according to HRS 134-9:
The chief of police of each county shall adopt procedures to require that any person granted a license to carry a concealed weapon on the person shall:
(1) Be qualified to use the firearm in a safe manner;
So, much like other states that require additional training beyond the standard NRA safety course, this is a legal requirement IN MY OPINION, and remember, IANAL.
But it does suck that each island has their own set of requirements, yet those requirements aren't posted anywhere. One of my goals for the new year is to get a list similar to the CalGuns list that outlines the exact, step-by-step procedures required within each county to apply. It would be nice to get more information regarding what is considered a "valid" or "approved" request in each county, but that is something that is further down the road.
- Alex
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Need to get a little more information on this "pistol test".
Scoring requirements, how often they give it, cost, who's range, who qualifies you, who's ammunition and weapons, scenario based etc. There are some things that may stand, but others will fail or could be forced to change.
ie: You can't make people run around and do other stuff, because if the person was handicapped they couldn't do that. Would love to see a written policy on this testing portion.
Anytime, anywhere in life, someone tells you something stupid... get it it in writing.
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I'm heading to the police station to pick up my next handgun permit and I'll ask again and see if I get more information.
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Well just got back home and I did pick up the application to apply for a CCW.
I did inquire about the pistol test requirements and the clerk was unsure who on the island (Maui), administers the tests to civilians. She knows that Loomis and other security companies have their own instructor who conducts the proficiency tests and that I could give them a call to see if their instructor could administer the test for a civilian.
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At this point they are making shit up, and have no clue. This is exactly one of the many reasons we are trying to push this (to find the bugs). You would need to speak to the major or whoever is in charge. Tell them your ready to apply and want the damn requirements imo. Loomis also wouldn't let you shoot at their range or with their instructors, it wouldn't be in their liability insurance I'm sure.
I also question the level of training these guards receive. I kind of wish I could go over there to help figure out what the heck is going on on these other islands lol. :wtf:
(b) The chief of police of each county shall adopt procedures to require that any person granted a license to carry a concealed weapon on the person shall:
They have to have the procedures written down, so we can see what they are.
This is the type of thing you can utilize the FOIA and the Office of Information Practices (OIP) requests for, if they won't give it to you. I just don't have the free time to start submitting at this point.
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This is the type of thing you can utilize the FOIA and the Office of Information Practices (OIP) requests for, if they won't give it to you. I just don't have the free time to start submitting at this point.
Like I was saying earlier, this is one of my goals for early next year...I'm going to do what I can (FOIA was what I was thinking...never heard of the OIP, something else for me to research >:() to get each county's procedures. Then I was going to pass it on to you to be added to the HCCW site.
- Alex
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FOIA is federal, OIP is our state version of FOIA.
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At this point they are making shit up, and have no clue. This is exactly one of the many reasons we are trying to push this (to find the bugs). You would need to speak to the major or whoever is in charge. Tell them your ready to apply and want the damn requirements imo. Loomis also wouldn't let you shoot at their range or with their instructors, it wouldn't be in their liability insurance I'm sure.
I also question the level of training these guards receive. I kind of wish I could go over there to help figure out what the heck is going on on these other islands lol. :wtf:
(b) The chief of police of each county shall adopt procedures to require that any person granted a license to carry a concealed weapon on the person shall:
They have to have the procedures written down, so we can see what they are.
This is the type of thing you can utilize the FOIA and the Office of Information Practices (OIP) requests for, if they won't give it to you. I just don't have the free time to start submitting at this point.
I'll see what can find out when I go back; I still have a rifle at my dealer I need to register next week.
Should I ask for a Major or Sergeant at Arms?
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Ask for the police officer who is directly in charge of the entire firearms division -- cut the middle man and hit the source =).
You just want it all in writing, so we know *exactly* (No speculation) what the requirements they want you to meet are. Thanks for your help vladimir!
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Ask for the police officer who is directly in charge of the entire firearms division -- cut the middle man and hit the source =).
You just want it all in writing, so we know *exactly* (No speculation) what the requirements they want you to meet are. Thanks for your help vladimir!
I know who exactly then to ask; on Maui it's the Sergeant of Arms who handles any firearm related issue. I kind of puzzled the clerks and the Sergeant when I told them I was considering bringing in a Ladies Home Companion (it's the pistol version of the Street Sweeper Shotgun but chambered in .45 LC) and wasn't sure if it was a Destructive Device.
I'll let you guys know soon though if I can get the exact requirements and we can see if maybe each island has different standards?
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Vladimir, I checked the logs and it looks like you were having some password issues. If you want to use your other account, you can go here to get a password reminder (http://2ahawaii.com/index.php?action=reminder).