2aHawaii
General Topics => Off Topic => Topic started by: mrgaf on May 27, 2020, 09:56:46 AM
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God speed to our astronauts and America’s next chapter in space exploration! SPACEX rules! :thumbsup:
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God speed to our astronauts and America’s next chapter in space exploration! SPACEX rules! :thumbsup:
Scrubbed due to weather.
Failure is not an option here.
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Scrubbed due to weather.
Failure is not an option here.
Definitely! Resked for Saturday @ 3:22 EST! :geekdanc: :thumbsup:
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Dead hooker has to stay on earth a little while longer.
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Dead hooker has to stay on earth a little while longer.
I doubt she/he cares ....
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:wtf:
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Elon sure likes spending our tax money. None of his businesses would be profitable without it.
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https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/spacex-prototype-starship-rocket-rips-apart-massive-explosion-day-ahead-manned-launch
Not surprised, given he was one of the first to put self-crashing cars on our roads.
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Elon is the wonder kid of the 21st century. Shows the world about American values in ingenuity and hard work to advance mankind, and that capitalism works.
I can't wait for the moon mission and mars.
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https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/spacex-prototype-starship-rocket-rips-apart-massive-explosion-day-ahead-manned-launch
Not surprised, given he was one of the first to put self-crashing cars on our roads.
I've read that the design philosophies are very different between SpaceX and NASA. SpaceX takes more risks in development to try new things and speed up testing. They expect to have failures like this which is why Musk takes pride in calling them "rapid unscheduled disassembly". But the philosophy seems to work since the Falcon 9 has been successful on 85 out of 87 launches.
NASA puts in enormous resources to ensure there are no failures during design and testing because it would affect public opinion and cut taxpayer funding. However this leads to massive delays and cost overruns.
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capitalism works.
Total dependence on massive government subsidies is pretty much the opposite of capitalism, and rushing to launch risky products that put lives in danger is not visionary but carelessness.
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Total dependence on massive government subsidies is pretty much the opposite of capitalism, and rushing to launch risky products that put lives in danger is not visionary but carelessness.
If you can startup a rocket company to reach Mars without government subsidies, I'll be your first investor and your biggest fan.
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If you can startup a rocket company to reach Mars without government subsidies, I'll be your first investor and your biggest fan.
Having fans is nice, but I consider going to Mars a giant waste of money and resources that would be better spent doing stuff that directly benefits everyone like fixing our crumbling infrastructure.
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Having fans is nice, but I consider going to Mars a giant waste of money and resources that would be better spent doing stuff that directly benefits everyone like fixing our crumbling infrastructure.
Maybe we'd learn how to make better infrastructure systems by going to a place like Mars?
Many of the day-to-day materials, products and systems we enjoyed over the past few decades were direct off-shoots from the space program.
Just saying, the advancement of knowledge is always a good investment. One day, when a planet-killing catastrophe is happening, going to a different planet may be the best way for the human race to survive. Waiting until the need arises to figure out how would be too late.
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https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/spacex-prototype-starship-rocket-rips-apart-massive-explosion-day-ahead-manned-launch
Not surprised, given he was one of the first to put self-crashing cars on our roads.
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fine print on the rocket engine....."hecho en chinne"
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Maybe we's learn how to make better infrastructure systems by going to a place like Mars?
Many of the day-to-day materials, products and systems we enjoyed over the past few decades were direct off-shoots from the space program.
Just saying, the advancement of knowledge is always a good investment. One day, when a planet-killing catastrophe is happening, going to a different planet may be the best way for the human race to survive. Waiting until the need arises to figure out how would be too late.
I am going to have to pop your bubble. We will never successfully colonize Mars or anywhere else. We cannot even make our budget work burning through the resources of this planet.
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I am going to have to pop your bubble. We will never successfully colonize Mars or anywhere else. We cannot even make our budget work burning through the resources of this planet.
I think that's what the detractors claimed about going to the moon or putting a laboratory in orbit.
Just solving the problems of keeping people alive in transit is a giant accomplishment.
Resources were supposed to have been unable to sustain the human population beyond 1990, according to population control experts/scientists. New technologies and discoveries have sustained an even larger population that was ever estimated to even exist.
When we make predictions, they are based on the things we know now. The only thing that is certain is that we don't know if we don't try.
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They obviously don't have experience taking video through a window. Needs to be darker inside than outside, or you get your own reflection! :rofl:
https://youtu.be/XgY4NKoT9SQ
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New technologies and discoveries have sustained an even larger population that was ever estimated to even exist.
When we make predictions, they are based on the things we know now. The only thing that is certain is that we don't know if we don't try.
Industrial agriculture based on resource extraction is self destructing and will eventually fail, but we kept doing it because Ag giants made too much money and now we have crossed a threshold where there is no viable alternative and we are stuck with an inevitable die-off. We know this for certain along with all the other dire scenarios that have been warned about by the pentagon and ignored by the media, which is why we now have rich guys obsessed with making their own space program. This is not for “us” but an escape pod for wealthy elites who are getting nervous about what is happening all around us. The Capitalist Carl Sagan bullshit is a narrative they cooked up to sucker us in to paying for it with our tax money.
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Industrial agriculture based on resource extraction is self destructing and will eventually fail, but we kept doing it because Ag giants made too much money and now we have crossed a threshold where there is no viable alternative and we are stuck with an inevitable die-off. We know this for certain along with all the other dire scenarios that have been warned about by the pentagon and ignored by the media, which is why we now have rich guys obsessed with making their own space program. This is not for “us” but an escape pod for wealthy elites who are getting nervous about what is happening all around us. The Capitalist Carl Sagan bullshit is a narrative they cooked up to sucker us in to paying for it with our tax money.
Maybe your vision is accurate for the next couple of generations, but look at how quickly technology has advanced since the space age was ushered in.
We've exponentially increased our technical knowledge the last 70 years. It dwarfs the entirety of human knowledge that cane before it.
We piggybacked on the math and scientific studies of the scholars who came before, but every stepping stone has now snowballed into an avalanche of knowledge and skills. The phones and computers we use daily would be like magic to anyone living at the turn of the 20th century or earlier.
Space flight
heart transplants
pharmaceuticals
super sonic travel
solar energy
microwave ovens
power tools
nuclear weapons
atomic energy
GPS technology
cell phones
"lasers" :thumbsup:
The list of technical achievements is almost endless, and there is no reason to believe the end is in sight. In fact, I believe we have barely touched the surface of what we can eventually do.
Why does it matter who pays for exploration? I see many people decrying the tax dollars that Elon Musk gets each year to build his cars. Yet, here you are bashing him for using his money to explore space? Do you think the patents for his technological advances will stop the gov't from using them?
I'm not really sure what your argument is against or for. Seems like you hate rich people using their money to build what they want, even without knowing now whether the efforts will benefit mankind or not.
Are you saying the Gov't can make better use of those funds for making our lives here more comfortable? Screw the future generations that might need an option to colonize another place besides Earth in advance of the "dire scenarios"?
No matter how much we'd like to believe we can protect our planet, the truth is, we have limitations. If/when the worst happens, someone -- anyone -- better have an exit strategy.
You and I won't have to deal with that, I predict. But then, I do have kids and a grand kid to consider.
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https://youtu.be/ezJYJu8-6pw
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https://youtu.be/ezJYJu8-6pw
As you would expect I fully
support Aerospace.
This reverses everything Democrats
have done to shut America
space efforts.
We no longer need Democrat
government permission to
improve ourselves
and explore.
Russians were kind of sidelined,
but they have doggedly performed
in space, where Americans
pooped out after the moon
trips.
But SpaceX is a Ferrari
and there will be more
competition in the future.
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Thinking ahead, nuclear energy is one of the best, pollution-free options we have to create energy. That's what the green energy thing is about, right?
Well, pollution-free with the exception of that pesky nuclear waste. Storing it until it's safe has always been a problem.
What if Space-X was paid to get rid of it? Fly it to the moon, launch it into the Sun, etc. The tricky part has always been the fear of an accident on lift-off. But, what if there's a way to develop engines that USE the nuclear waste to transport it out of the atmosphere? Or better yet, rocket engines that use Tesla-style motors that have no chance of exploding on lift-off?
These are just a couple more reasons to continue pushing the envelope and finding new and better technologies for space flight.
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Thinking ahead, nuclear energy is one of the best, pollution-free options we have to create energy. That's what the green energy thing is about, right?
Well, pollution-free with the exception of that pesky nuclear waste. Storing it until it's safe has always been a problem.
What if Space-X was paid to get rid of it? Fly it to the moon, launch it into the Sun, etc. The tricky part has always been the fear of an accident on lift-off. But, what if there's a way to develop engines that USE the nuclear waste to transport it out of the atmosphere? Or better yet, rocket engines that use Tesla-style motors that have no chance of exploding on lift-off?
These are just a couple more reasons to continue pushing the envelope and finding new and better technologies for space flight.
Many people don't realize there is "radiation"
everywhere.
This entire Earth was once inside a Star.
Perhaps I spent too many years working with
Astrophysicists.
Most were from Texas and liked guns.
The really scary "radiation"
Gama particles, we get hit with all the time.
The stuff that scares Democrats,
is pretty controllable.
What we really should use is Thorium.
common and readily available.
Politics keep us down.
and makes Democrats rich.
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I try not to be too cynical but it gets difficult sometimes, especially when a publicity stunt designed to hold up a rapidly disintegrating Ponzi scheme captures the imagination of people who are doing their best to ignore exactly how far the quality of life in this country has fallen over the past few decades. If you put your money on Musk and keep it there you will lose your money. He is a showman, not a genius. That is the problem with government picking the winners. Everyone loses.
Edit: I just read the part about strapping nuclear waste to a rocket and launching it into space. That is completely insane for so many reasons that I can’t even go there. Also nuclear power is another technology that is totally useless without subsidies. It simply cannot cover its own costs, not even including the costs of accident cleanups and storage that will have to remain functional for half a million years.
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Many people don't realize there is "radiation"
everywhere.
This entire Earth was once inside a Star.
Perhaps I spent too many years working with
Astrophysicists.
Most were from Texas and liked guns.
The really scary "radiation"
Gama particles, we get hit with all the time.
The stuff that scares Democrats,
is pretty controllable.
What we really should use is Thorium.
common and readily available.
Politics keep us down.
and makes Democrats rich.
Why you think I wear the tinfoil hat all day?
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Why you think I wear the tinfoil hat all day?
You really want to go there? :geekdanc: :rofl:
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I try not to be too cynical but it gets difficult sometimes, especially when a publicity stunt designed to hold up a rapidly disintegrating Ponzi scheme captures the imagination of people who are doing their best to ignore exactly how far the quality of life in this country has fallen over the past few decades. If you put your money on Musk and keep it there you will lose your money. He is a showman, not a genius. That is the problem with government picking the winners. Everyone loses.
Edit: I just read the part about strapping nuclear waste to a rocket and launching it into space. That is completely insane for so many reasons that I can’t even go there. Also nuclear power is another technology that is totally useless without subsidies. It simply cannot cover its own costs, not even including the costs of accident cleanups and storage that will have to remain functional for half a million years.
Based on CURRENT, KNOWN technology, I agree (as do most people in the Space program, gov't, etc.). Having said that, however, it opens the door to what I said before: space exploration creates new technologies. Who's to say that one day we might be able to safely transport nuclear waste out of the atmosphere WITHOUT the violent force currently used to attain orbit and beyond?
The Space Shuttle was once envisioned to be a vehicle that could be carried to a very high altitude by a 747, then separate and continue on its own into outer space. That proved to be problematic, but not something that was conceptually impossible.
New energy sources, new materials and new manufacturing techniques are discovered all the time. One day we might have a series of low-to-high orbiting stations that could safely get a payload into space without the risks of today.
We don't know unless we try.
As for subsidies, when nuclear power has replaced fossil fuel plants, the cash will be there to sustain it. And, since the gov't regulates that industry to death, it's not unreasonable for them to assist with compliance. Simply inspecting and writing up discrepancy reports is not the most effective problem-solving process, especially in gov't.
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It is well known that Musk has an ulterior motive to going to space. He stands to make even more money by placing men on the moon and setting up mining operations on the Moon. All of the resources that we will eventually use up here on earth or not have access to because it doesn’t exist on our soil is plentiful out in space. This blows up the conspiracy theories pushed in this thread. One large asteroid recently was said to have enough rare earth metals to supply the US and take away our reliance on China for them for close to a century. The moon is said to be full of this sort of thing in abundance if Musk can make it a profitable venture. I believe he will. Capitalism at its finest. JMHO
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It aint capitalism if it does not work without massive government subsidies. That is why nobody else is doing it. This is government pouring money into lots of stupid ideas to make rich people even richer. Space mining is not in our planetary budget, never has and never will be. Saying that some technology will magically appear is quasi-religious delusion. Just because you want something really bad does not mean that the laws of physics will bend to your will. All these arguments are part of the giant Hopium bubble that stop real innovation from happening by bleeding off trillions of our tax dollars to a wealthy narcissist's Scifi fantasy. This is a Liberal policy run by Liberals and vehemently supported by...?
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It aint capitalism if it does not work without massive government subsidies. That is why nobody else is doing it. This is government pouring money into lots of stupid ideas to make rich people even richer. Space mining is not in our planetary budget, never has and never will be. Saying that some technology will magically appear is quasi-religious delusion. Just because you want something really bad does not mean that the laws of physics will bend to your will. All these arguments are part of the giant Hopium bubble that stop real innovation from happening by bleeding off trillions of our tax dollars to a wealthy narcissist's Scifi fantasy. This is a Liberal policy run by Liberals and vehemently supported by...?
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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It aint capitalism if it does not work without massive government subsidies. That is why nobody else is doing it. This is government pouring money into lots of stupid ideas to make rich people even richer. Space mining is not in our planetary budget, never has and never will be. Saying that some technology will magically appear is quasi-religious delusion. Just because you want something really bad does not mean that the laws of physics will bend to your will. All these arguments are part of the giant Hopium bubble that stop real innovation from happening by bleeding off trillions of our tax dollars to a wealthy narcissist's Scifi fantasy. This is a Liberal policy run by Liberals and vehemently supported by...?
Yeah because NOBODY ELSE is doing capitalism.
Right.
Lessons in Liberty: Hong Kong, Crown Jewel of Capitalism
https://fee.org/articles/lessons-in-liberty-hong-kong-crown-jewel-of-capitalism/
Sweden Is Capitalist
https://www.nationalreview.com/magazine/2019/05/20/sweden-is-capitalist/
In fact, when listed in order of MOST Capitalistic, the US at #12 isn't even in the top 10!! :rofl: :rofl:
Would you like some facts with that crap sandwich?
The top 10 most capitalistic countries are:
Hong Kong
Singapore
New Zealand
Switzerland
Australia
Ireland
United Kingdom
Canada
United Arab Emirates
Taiwan
https://www.thebalance.com/capitalism-characteristics-examples-pros-cons-3305588
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Yeah because NOBODY ELSE is doing capitalism.
Right.
Lessons in Liberty: Hong Kong, Crown Jewel of Capitalism
https://fee.org/articles/lessons-in-liberty-hong-kong-crown-jewel-of-capitalism/
Sweden Is Capitalist
https://www.nationalreview.com/magazine/2019/05/20/sweden-is-capitalist/
In fact, when listed in order of MOST Capitalistic, the US at #12 isn't even in the top 10!! :rofl: :rofl:
Would you like some facts with that crap sandwich?
The top 10 most capitalistic countries are:
Hong Kong
Singapore
New Zealand
Switzerland
Australia
Ireland
United Kingdom
Canada
United Arab Emirates
Taiwan
https://www.thebalance.com/capitalism-characteristics-examples-pros-cons-3305588
I read the article. this popped out
"Its weakest points are its massive government spending and poor fiscal health.
It's also weak in its tax burden that restricts taxpayer freedom."
That is referring to Democrat run America.
Could also describe Hawaii.
America is an oligarchy run by
Rich Democrats.
I repudiate the race thing, it is all
cultural.
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I read the article. this popped out
"Its weakest points are its massive government spending and poor fiscal health.
It's also weak in its tax burden that restricts taxpayer freedom."
That is referring to Democrat run America.
Could also describe Hawaii.
America is an oligarchy run by
Rich Democrats.
I repudiate the race thing, it is all
cultural.
I'm not saying Capitalism, even as it should be implemented, is perfect.
It's the worst form of economics in the world -- except for all the others.
I am simply showing hvybarrels that his comment is not fact-based. That's all. :shaka:
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As you would expect I fully
support Aerospace.
This reverses everything Democrats
have done to shut America
space efforts.
I said to hell with it and retired a bit early after Øbowel canceled the NASA back to the moon effort.
I was looking forward to developing and proving out our idea for a lunar navigation system. Might have had other spin off benefits, but social welfare took the Kenyan's attention.
So, here we are, more trillions spent on the welfare class, and they still riot at the media generated affront of the day.
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SpaceX will get us to Mars. I believe in Elon Musk
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SpaceX will get us to Mars. I believe in Elon Musk
First step is a Moon base to use for Mars launches.
A Mars base is going to be a logistical challenge, to put it mildly. All the materials, supplies and fuel needed to support human life there has to make its way outside of Earth's atmosphere first. Staging via the Moon isn't a new plan, but making an effort to do it is new.
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First step is a Moon base to use for Mars launches.
A Mars base is going to be a logistical challenge, to put it mildly. All the materials, supplies and fuel needed to support human life there has to make its way outside of Earth's atmosphere first. Staging via the Moon isn't a new plan, but making an effort to do it is new.
Just like with the first trips to the moon and the subsequent ISS I can’t imagine the technological breakthroughs we are going to benefit from!
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First step is a Moon base to use for Mars launches.
A Mars base is going to be a logistical challenge, to put it mildly. All the materials, supplies and fuel needed to support human life there has to make its way outside of Earth's atmosphere first. Staging via the Moon isn't a new plan, but making an effort to do it is new.
Still going to be cheaper to buy a house on Mars than Honolulu
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Still going to be cheaper to buy a house on Mars than Honolulu
Yeah, but the taxes to install that infrastructure are gonna be MASSIVE!
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Just like with the first trips to the moon and the subsequent ISS I can’t imagine the technological breakthroughs we are going to benefit from!
SpaceX just used a booster rocket for a record fifth time.
https://techcrunch.com/2020/03/18/spacex-breaks-a-falcon-9-rocket-re-use-record-with-successful-starlink-launch/#:~:text=SpaceX%20breaks%20a%20Falcon%209%20rocket%20re,record%20with%20successful%20Starlink%20launch&text=The%20launch%20this%20morning%20used,component%20of%20its%20launch%20system.
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SpaceX just used a booster rocket for a record fifth time.
https://techcrunch.com/2020/03/18/spacex-breaks-a-falcon-9-rocket-re-use-record-with-successful-starlink-launch/#:~:text=SpaceX%20breaks%20a%20Falcon%209%20rocket%20re,record%20with%20successful%20Starlink%20launch&text=The%20launch%20this%20morning%20used,component%20of%20its%20launch%20system.
We are already seeing great advancements. The benefits for us here in the US and eventually the world will come down the pipe. I hope I’m still around to see some of it. I particularly want to see putting men back on the moon. Permanently. I doubt I’ll be around for the mars missions. Very exciting stuff.
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Transporters. Warp drive. Tricorders (already have tablets and phones).
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We are already seeing great advancements. The benefits for us here in the US and eventually the world will come down the pipe. I hope I’m still around to see some of it. I particularly want to see putting men back on the moon. Permanently. I doubt I’ll be around for the mars missions. Very exciting stuff.
A one way Mars trip is possible now. We'll collect donations and send you there. For the sake of mankind.
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I'm not saying Capitalism, even as it should be implemented, is perfect.
It's the worst form of economics in the world -- except for all the others.
I am simply showing hvybarrels that his comment is not fact-based. That's all. :shaka:
You support spending taxpayer money on pie-in-the-sky fantasy projects that take hard working American taxpayer capitol and divert it to the pockets of wealthy elites. That makes you a liberal by even the strictest definition.
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A one way Mars trip is possible now. We'll collect donations and send you there. For the sake of mankind.
It's not just possible, but being planned. If you have the inclination to live the rest of your life working on Mars, you should submit your application to the Mars One project. Since this is a one-way ticket, I've wondered if they shouldn't set a minimum age of about 45-50 for the first settlers. That would have quite a few advantages, not the least of which is the psychological benefits. You've already had a full life on Earth, this is a way to get your name in the history books, more mature, less worried about a family left behind, etc.
http://www.mars-one.com/mission/mars-one-astronauts
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You support spending taxpayer money on pie-in-the-sky fantasy projects that take hard working American taxpayer capitol and divert it to the pockets of wealthy elites. That makes you a liberal by even the strictest definition.
Not everything is about money.
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Not everything is about money.
Money represents resources, or at least conservatives believe it should.
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Transporters. Warp drive. Tricorders (already have tablets and phones).
You forgot Gene Roddenberrys version of Space Communism, which is another bit of science fiction technology that does not work in reality either.
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Money represents resources, or at least conservatives believe it should.
And technological advances represent potential growth in knowledge that hopefully solve resource-related problems like disease prevention, healthcare, feeding the population, energy, transportation and so on.
I consider these expenditures as an investment in the future of mankind, something that can reward future generations and offer an even better jumping-off point for new discoveries than we started with.
What you seem to focus on is pouring more resources into the "consumables" bucket, which means by definition it will be depleted one day. What I'm focused on is taking a portion of the consumables and put them into the "let's find a better way to use what we have now before it's all used up," bucket.
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You forgot Gene Roddenberrys version of Space Communism, which is another bit of science fiction technology that does not work in reality either.
I think you missed Roddenberry's main point. He wasn't preaching Communism. He was looking forward to doing away with the problems you are focusing on: food, money, ... all the essentials people need to live.
Rather than running to the store for every little thing you need, you just use a replicator to make those things. Knowledge is the most valuable commodity. There's no need for money. Everyone is required to work to his or her best ability. The sick are taken care of through modern technological breakthroughs -- one being a transporter that can break a human into their molecular components and reconstitute them into a more healthy combination of molecules without the diseases or imperfections they had when they started. Weapons would have the ability to not only kill, but also stun. A more humane and ethically acceptable option over lethal force.
Even in Roddenberry's version of reality, there were still resource needs, such as dilithium crystals and other ores and minerals critical for their continued society and missions. They routinely sought these resources on other planets and traded for them.
So, you see. This isn't Communism. It's reality in a different set of circumstances. What we need never really changes but for the details.
https://youtu.be/Ssq8wHAx4nE
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*hopefully
There are plenty of ways to spend that money that directly benefit everyone, including widespread infrastructure neglect that threatens the reality-based economy. No hope required.
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You forgot Gene Roddenberrys version of Space Communism, which is another bit of science fiction technology that does not work in reality either.
I'm a technical sort of guy.
I own the entire set of old Star Trek, Next generation, and all the Trek movies.
It is fantasy, not even science fiction, but I like fantasy literature,
Alice in wonderland for example. Star Trek is that sort of thing.
But the biggest fantasy is the "Space communism".
Personally I think space life will be more like the "Mirror, Mirror"
in the old Star Trek. Secular mankind historically, is not very kind.
The book "Dune" is probably the best guess as to what
governance out in space will be like.
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*hopefully
There are plenty of ways to spend that money that directly benefit everyone, including widespread infrastructure neglect that threatens the reality-based economy. No hope required.
There is no guarantee that if you put all your eggs into that basket, that nothing bad will ever happen that you lose those eggs -- basket and all.
Why is it your contention that we can't do both? We make decisions all the time on how to divide resources, and the world keeps turning, people keep having babies, and on and on...
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This isn't Communism.
Techno Communism is still Communism, and it will never work for the same reason that Moon and Mars colonies will never work. They are all based on flawed models, wild speculation, and pure fantasy. The human body rapidly disintegrates when taken off this planet. Never mind the psychological degeneration that happens when people are taken out of nature and forced to isolate themselves for extended periods of time. Quarantine is driving people nuts and we can still go to the store and open the window for some fresh air. If someone is foolish/suicidal enough to desire space travel then let them foot the bill instead of taxpayers.
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A one way Mars trip is possible now. We'll collect donations and send you there. For the sake of mankind.
Can’t get rid of me that easily! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Techno Communism is still Communism, and it will never work for the same reason that Moon and Mars colonies will never work. They are all based on flawed models, wild speculation, and pure fantasy. The human body rapidly disintegrates when taken off this planet. Never mind the psychological degeneration that happens when people are taken out of nature and forced to isolate themselves for extended periods of time. Quarantine is driving people nuts and we can still go to the store and open the window for some fresh air. If someone is foolish/suicidal enough to desire space travel then let them foot the bill instead of taxpayers.
Who called anything "techno Communism" besides you? Technology exists to serve everyone. The resources to achieve those advances rest with the govt and people like Elon Musk willing to take the risks and reach for a higher level of knowledge.
I see nothing Communistic in that. Nobody is being forced to pay directly into the "black hole" of space exploration. Our taxes don't benefit the poorest individuals as much as you've been lead to believe. How many bailouts have been funded by taxes that were subsequently provided directly to those making poverty wages? To believe giving more to the public in general will ever happen is naive. The best solution is to focus that money on things that reap benefits for mankind in general.
It took lots of resources to reach the Moon, but the advancements since then have been staggering. Resource allocation has to include R&D ... for the future as well as the present.
The problems of space exploration as it affects the human body is exactly why we have to try. Until we do, we'll never know what works and what doesn't.
It took Edison 100 tries to find a filament that worked in the incandescent light bulb. He never considered the first 99 as failures, but instead he said he discovered 99 ways to NOT make a light bulb.
Innovation requires the dedication to seek answers after every other attempt has failed. We don't know what we don't know.
Nobody starts out with a 100% foolproof, proven plan that is guaranteed to succeed in everything new.
They say necessity is the mother of invention. What I hear from you is you don't yet think we are at the point of necessity. If we wait until our resources are at a critical level and unable to sustain us all, is that the time you think we should be looking into space flight rather than now when we actually have a surplus? By then, you'll have turned to dust, so I guess that's all that matters.
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Who called anything "techno Communism" besides you? Technology exists to serve everyone. The resources to achieve those advances rest with the govt and people like Elon Musk willing to take the risks and reach for a higher level of knowledge.
I see nothing Communistic in that. Nobody is being forced to pay directly into the "black hole" of space exploration. Our taxes don't benefit the poorest individuals as much as you've been lead to believe. How many bailouts have been funded by taxes that were subsequently provided directly to those making poverty wages? To believe giving more to the public in general will ever happen is naive. The best solution is to focus that money on things that reap benefits for mankind in general.
It took lots of resources to reach the Moon, but the advancements since then have been staggering. Resource allocation has to include R&D ... for the future as well as the present.
The problems of space exploration as it affects the human body is exactly why we have to try. Until we do, we'll never know what works and what doesn't.
It took Edison 100 tries to find a filament that worked in the incandescent light bulb. He never considered the first 99 as failures, but instead he said he discovered 99 ways to NOT make a light bulb.
Innovation requires the dedication to seek answers after every other attempt has failed. We don't know what we don't know.
Nobody starts out with a 100% foolproof, proven plan that is guaranteed to succeed in everything new.
They say necessity is the mother of invention. What I hear from you is you don't yet think we are at the point of necessity. If we wait until our resources are at a critical level and unable to sustain us all, is that the time you think we should be looking into space flight rather than now when we actually have a surplus? By then, you'll have turned to dust, so I guess that's all that matters.
"The resources to achieve those advances rest with the govt and people like Elon Musk willing to take the risks and reach for a higher level of knowledge."
What we are doing now is making what we already know how to do, Better.
We can probably go to Mars now, but why? So we can live
like the miners in the first "Total recall" movie?
That is not doing something "new",
so in that sense I agree with our friends on Taxpayer dollars.
Long term controlled Fusion would be "new".
Discovering how to control Gravity
or even what it is, is "new".
How to Null out Gamma radiation
would be "new".
That is where I disagree with the naysayers
and we should forge ahead and use taxpayer
dollars for new technologies.
that we don't have now.
Oahu guys have wasted money
on a Choo Choo, that will never be finished as
"pitched", is the most expensive train run in America,
will not be used as much as expected, and
will be a permanent drain on your economy.
This is not the best way to develop "infrastructure"
with taxpayer money.
It may as well be a rocket to Mars.
America is full of such Democrat BS.
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It may as well be a rocket to Mars.
America is full of such Democrat BS.
The Bus
The Cab
The Rail
soon ... The Spaceship? :rofl:
We have Hawaiians protesting against a new and better telescope because of "sacred mountain" arguments.
I don't see anyone with the same beliefs/viewpoint ever supporting space flight no matter who pays for it.
Their universe is extremely limited.
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The Bus
The Cab
The Rail
soon ... The Spaceship? :rofl:
We have Hawaiians protesting against a new and better telescope because of "sacred mountain" arguments.
I don't see anyone with the same beliefs/viewpoint ever supporting space flight no matter who pays for it.
Their universe is extremely limited.
Yeah.
Mauna Kea is about one million years old on an planet that is
a little under 5 billion years old.
So I guess their Gods are pretty young.
Kamehameha schools don't teach white mans math
very well.
Don't get me wrong being on Mauna Kea is impressive
at the summit.
TMT telescope is just a facility and a 30 meter mirror.
What makes it work is the instruments that
gather Photons. You don't hear much about the
instrument they are developing.
The James Webb space telescope, if they ever
get it working, and up there in orbit will way outclass
the Hubble in space, the TMT, or any other telescope on Earth.
Personally once we get the space ones working we really
don't need the land based ones as much.
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Yeah.
Mauna Kea is about one million years old on an planet that is
a little under 5 billion years old.
So I guess their Gods are pretty young.
Kamehameha schools don't teach white mans math
very well.
Don't get me wrong being on Mauna Kea is impressive
at the summit.
TMT telescope is just a facility and a 30 meter mirror.
What makes it work is the instruments that
gather Photons. You don't hear much about the
instrument they are developing.
The James Webb space telescope, if they ever
get it working, and up there in orbit will way outclass
the Hubble in space, the TMT, or any other telescope on Earth.
Personally once we get the space ones working we really
don't need the land based ones as much.
Another reason SpaceX is important. Orbiting telescopes are expensive and difficult to repair, maintain and upgrade. The quicker we solve those problems, the less we need to build ground-based observatories.
The Hubble was launched into orbit on April 24, 1990. Do the math, man! That's a really long time as technology goes. How many on here have the same cell phone, PC, TV and music player they were using in the early 90s?
30 years worth of technological advances. Think about it. A few upgrades have been installed to keep it useful, but is that the best we can muster? Hardly!
There have been 5 servicing missions on the Hubble. The last HST service mission was 2009, just before the Shuttle program was halted. How many people would trust anything electronic in their homes to operate normally for 10 years? Now imagine that appliance orbiting the Earth at 4,298.1 miles above the surface at 4.72 miles per SECOND! :thumbsup:
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Anyone with even rudimentary critical thinking skills should be able to see how bad Elon’s ideas are. But that’s the point of blind faith. It shuts down the rational part of the brain. Grov brings up a great point. How many more broken promises do we need to awaken our skepticism? It’s a survival skill that protects us from scoundrels, megalomaniacs, and the dangerously delusional.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/tech/11447265/elon-musk-starlink-satellites-night-sky-block-orbit-how-many/
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Anyone with even rudimentary critical thinking skills should be able to see how bad Elon’s ideas are. But that’s the point of blind faith. It shuts down the rational part of the brain. Grov brings up a great point. How many more broken promises do we need to awaken our skepticism? It’s a survival skill that protects us from scoundrels, megalomaniacs, and the dangerously delusional.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/tech/11447265/elon-musk-starlink-satellites-night-sky-block-orbit-how-many/
My rudimentary logic tells me that the Internet has become a critical part of our lives: employment, finances, medical information, national security, general information, weather and earthquake alerts, -- you name it, and people are becoming increasingly dependent on the Internet for almost every part of our lives.
Having affordable, fast Internet access for everyone is not a bad thing.
As the problems are identified (shiny satellites interfering with ground-based observatories), they can be addressed (new non-reflective coating to eliminate the shininess).
Having a knee-jerk reaction to space satellites based on a SUN article? How punny! :rofl: :rofl:
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My rudimentary logic tells me that the Internet has become a critical part of our lives: employment, finances, medical information, national security, general information, weather and earthquake alerts, -- you name it, and people are becoming increasingly dependent on the Internet for almost every part of our lives.
Having affordable, fast Internet access for everyone is not a bad thing.
As the problems are identified (shiny satellites interfering with ground-based observatories), they can be addressed (new non-reflective coating to eliminate the shininess).
Having a knee-jerk reaction to space satellites based on a SUN article? How punny! :rofl: :rofl:
Most big money astronomy is not done in Visible light.
so reflectors are a just a "shut the dumb fvcks up"
That is a very small part of the spectrum of energy
we seek to observe, most I know of is in IR and Lower
wavelengths.
Visible light only tells you what it looks like, not what it
is made of.
Although I made my living for a time in the Astronomy
industry in Hawaii, I think it is a waste as it does not improve
the human condition( other than jobs and vocations)
The Internet does improve peoples lives.
That is more important than the Black hole in the center
of our Galaxy, or that the Galaxy Andromeda
is going to collide with ours in 5 billion years or so.
Our sun isn't going to last that long.
So much for "renewable: energy.
World wide inexpensive Internet.
I'm all for it!
Full disclosure;
My internet is satellite now.
$85 per month.
No land lines, all off a bird 22,000 miles away.
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Your lord and savior Elon Christ is busy filling the skies with hazardous space debris that will completely destroy our ability use orbit at any level for any purpose. It’s called the Kessler effect, and it was a serious concern before the government sponsored him to ratchet it into high gear.
So the guy who is supposed to make your space fantasies all come true is actually making space flight impossible, stranding us all on the planet with a garbage filled sky occasionally raining remnants of stupidity and hubris down on us for the next few thousand years.
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Your lord and savior Elon Christ is busy filling the skies with hazardous space debris that will completely destroy our ability use orbit at any level for any purpose. It’s called the Kessler effect, and it was a serious concern before the government sponsored him to ratchet it into high gear.
So the guy who is supposed to make your space fantasies all come true is actually making space flight impossible, stranding us all on the planet with a garbage filled sky occasionally raining remnants of stupidity and hubris down on us for the next few thousand years.
You should use "Quote" more.
Unlike most stuff put up there these "baby" satellites are designed to burn-up when they fail.
There is a lot of trash in orbit and that is a big problem.
Some smart guy will come up with a way to
deal with things doing 4 miles per second, that are trash.
Capitalism always works.
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You should use "Quote" more.
Unlike most stuff put up there these "baby" satellites are designed to burn-up when they fail.
There is a lot of trash in orbit and that is a big problem.
Some smart guy will come up with a way to
deal with things doing 4 miles per second, that are trash.
Capitalism always works.
True. If the value of the so-called debris (gold, titanium and platinum are used in many components) were to be worth the cost involved in recovering it, the problem would eventually fix itself as "Space Recyclers" develop new ways to harvest said junk.
Yet another purpose for the SpaceX program. Imagine a mission to connect 100 obsolete satellites together and guide them back to Earth through reentry, assuming the junk was built to survive it. Also, imagine a drone ship that grabs dead satellites and places them on a proper trajectory to be incinerated long before their obit is expected to decay. Sort of a SpaceX version of a Roomba. :geekdanc: New materials that can be deployed safely intact could then be easily burned up on reentry, making them safer by avoiding collisions on the ground.
For every problem people imagine, there are possible solutions just waiting to be imagined as well. We won't ever know if we don't try.
BTW, him taunting me by using "Your lord and savior, Elon Musk" just makes hvybarrels sound that much more ignorant. If that's his only jab, he should quit now. I got worse from my kids when they were in elementary school! :wacko:
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I'll be in Florida in the middle of September for the Gun Rights Policy Conference. I'm hoping I can watch a spacex flight take off and visit some space museums there. In July I'll be in Arizona and I'm planning to take a tour of the Sedona observatory where Pluto was discovered. I always loved astronomy. Might even see Inspector in the area.
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I'll be in Florida in the middle of September for the Gun Rights Policy Conference. I'm hoping I can watch a spacex flight take off and visit some space museums there. In July I'll be in Arizona and I'm planning to take a tour of the Sedona observatory where Pluto was discovered. I always loved astronomy. Might even see Inspector in the area.
The Cape is pretty awesome.
The shuttle and Falcon launch pads
had warning signs about death from the sound
levels, yet it is a National wildlife and bird sanctuary.
Go figure
I would try to see the
Binocular Telescope
since you are in the area.
Very impressive.
Since you like Astronomy.
I worked at the Kecks.
The Binocular was
a very interesting
Telescope.
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I'll be in Florida in the middle of September for the Gun Rights Policy Conference. I'm hoping I can watch a spacex flight take off and visit some space museums there. In July I'll be in Arizona and I'm planning to take a tour of the Sedona observatory where Pluto was discovered. I always loved astronomy. Might even see Inspector in the area.
Let me know if you are going to be nearby. :shaka:
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warning signs about death from the sound
levels, yet it is a National wildlife and bird sanctuary.
Go figure
My F-4 squadron deployed to Fallon Nev for training 1966. A few of us got some bows and arrows from the special services. Went out to hunt jackrabbits around the runways. Rabbits were mostly deaf from all the jet takeoffs so we thought we could get close. They could not hear squat, but the eyesight saved them from our ineptness.
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My F-4 squadron deployed to Fallon Nev for training 1966. A few of us got some bows and arrows from the special services. Went out to hunt jackrabbits around the runways. Rabbits were mostly deaf from all the jet takeoffs so we thought we could get close. They could not hear squat, but the eyesight saved them from our ineptness.
Those rabbits were deaf ...
... but not dumb! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: