2aHawaii
Tools and Uses => Firearms and Accessories => Topic started by: ethanhunter34 on May 27, 2020, 06:10:03 PM
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Aloha,
looking to purchase my first pistol. G17 or G19 gen5 mos , Vp9 optic ready, Cz P10-C , Sig p320 and Canik tp9 sc elite.
Right now G17 gen5 mos is on the top of my list since G19 and Cz p10 C is on backorder and not sure when they will be back in stock. How are the Sig p320 and Canik tp9 sc elite? I heard they are good as well. How is the recoil compared to the G17? I’m thinking they are a little more snappy? What favorite pistol do you guys have?🤙
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Welcome :shaka:
I dont have any of those pistols you want but I did shoot my friends g19 and my other friends vp9. Between those 2, I like the vp9 better. Glocks are good too. Reliable and a lot of upgrade parts for them. Either one is a good choice.
Get your long gun permit if you haven't already.
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I shoot a Glock 17.
(Now my daughters favorite and I picked up an fns9. More 1911 grip angle)
Grip angle on Glock takes getting used to as shooter needs to push the front sight down.
Good for recoil recovery though.
Just my opinion.
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Definitely not a Glock snob, although my favorite pistol are my Glock 19's. My first pistol was a Glock 17, but since then, I have tried and owned many others. VP9 to me has the most comfortable grip that I've felt. I have small hands and it feels great. There are a lot of manufacturers making customizable back straps now to fit every size hand. The Sig P320 offers different size lowers, small, medium, and large! I have one with a small and it's the only pistol I own that allows me to reach the mag release without shifting my grip. I used to have an older Gen 1 Canik TP9. Thought it was great, reminded me of a P99. Never tried the new ones. Heard and read good things though. You'll just have to get a hold of one of all the pistols you listed and try them out. Find which one you like. Most modern pistols are more and more reliable nowadays. It pretty much comes down to which one looks the coolest...
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Thanks guys for your reply’s! My appointment for my permit is not till July 9th which was the earliest they had so I do have some time. They do have the Vp9 optic ready in stock which is $729 and the G17 gen5 mos $665. I know the mags are cheaper for the G17 vs the vp9 which is around $35-$40. In Hawaii you are only allowed 10 round mags if I’m correct?
How is the G19 compared to the G17 ? I do like the G19 but it’s back ordered and was told it might be months till they are back in stock so If I get a Glock it will be a 17.
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Yea you are correct. 10 round mags for non LEO/military.
If your dead set on a g19. Order it yourself via gunbroker, buds, etc. And ship to an ffl. It may be even cheaper that way. Unless you meet the blue line for glocks.
Blue line is for government employees. Some are ffdos, fams, firefighters, i think ems too (you gotta ask that, not really sure)
I know sec hawaii has blue line for glocks and sig sauer. As well as primesports (only sig atm though.)
Personally, i like g19s. Ive had all 3, g17, g19, g26. All are gen 4s. I couldnt hit shit with a g17. No bs, idk why. It felt weird to me. I still love my g19 and g26. Trijicon hd sights. So i sold my g17 and been happier. I assume its the same grip angle on paper, but in reality it feels completely different to me. Thats just my speculation. Ive used my friends gen 3 g19 and his gen 3 g17 rtf. Same thing, i could peg the 50 yard target adequately or good enough with his g19 but the g17 i hit the berm all day long 🤪. Lol. He runs both trijicon sights too.
Since you have time like you said. Wait for 4th of july sales. I can almost guarantee youll see good deals on the web. Prob most shops too, now that everything is somewhat going back to normal. I have a feeling there will be alot of sales cause they need to move products to make up for losses. Gucci just had a sale on smaller items which is pretty nuts cause ive never seen them have a sale ever.
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I know the mags are cheaper for the G17 vs the vp9 which is around $35-$40.
And Magpul makes Glock mags now, too! Even cheaper!
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Aloha,
looking to purchase my first pistol. G17 or G19 gen5 mos , Vp9 optic ready, Cz P10-C , Sig p320 and Canik tp9 sc elite.
Right now G17 gen5 mos is on the top of my list since G19 and Cz p10 C is on backorder and not sure when they will be back in stock. How are the Sig p320 and Canik tp9 sc elite? I heard they are good as well. How is the recoil compared to the G17? I’m thinking they are a little more snappy? What favorite pistol do you guys have?🤙
Seems like you're set on a RDS pistol. For those, I have experience with all of your list except for the VP9 and Canik. For me, one consideration for me is what "support" is needed, like holsters and mags. Since I had a bunch of that stuff for Glocks, going to RDS Glocks is easy for me. Beyond that, assuming approximately equal size frames, I don't notice any being more snappy than the others, at least enough to drive a decision. The P320 has a big range of frames and slides. I really want an X-5, but the frame weighting and 5" slide will make it a softer shooter than say a 19.
Overall, I would say you'd be well served with any of those you listed. Think Canik probably has the least "support" stuff, but I've heard good things about them.
My favorite? My Gucci 19 with RDS. ;D
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I shoot a Glock 17.
(Now my daughters favorite and I picked up an fns9. More 1911 grip angle)
Grip angle on Glock takes getting used to as shooter needs to push the front sight down.
Good for recoil recovery though.
Just my opinion.
Father-Daughter challenge range day! ;D
I got $20 on your daughter. :rofl:
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I have a VP9 and 1 reason why I choose that over a Glock was at the time, many replaced the trigger of the glock. So that's another $150 being spent. Which made it the same price of a VP9. And for the VP9, you don't have to do anything to the trigger.
In the end, buy what you want and looks cool to you. Once you get enough triggger time, you will learn what you need and how your body responds to each handgun.
I shot a P320 and didn't like the way the handgun was balanced. It felt front heavy.
In the end, it's the indian and not the arrow for accuracy.
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What other stores sells the Vp9 optic ready? I know HGS has it in stock and SEC is waiting on shipment.
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Father-Daughter challenge range day! ;D
I got $20 on your daughter. :rofl:
Game on !
Shit, even she’ll bet against me.
(And win)
I’m gonna need Rocky. :rofl:
I have a VP9 and 1 reason why I choose that over a Glock was at the time, many replaced the trigger of the glock. So that's another $150 being spent. Which made it the same price of a VP9. And for the VP9, you don't have to do anything to the trigger.
In the end, buy what you want and looks cool you.
In the end, it's the indian and not the arrow for accuracy.
Words of wisdom right there.
But it only costs about $50 bucks total to change the trigger connector to about 4lbs and get the extended slide release on the Glock.
I changed mine. Shitload of take-up though but nice crisp break.
Never shot a VP9 but plenty for sale in the classifieds. At least there were.
Don’t know about optics ready.
VP9 was the cats meow when it came out.
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I love Glocks, have 3 of them, if I was starting over today having no Magazines/Parts/misc stuff related to them I'd be open to buy something else just because it's the least comfortable to grip. I'd probably still get a Glock because of it's reliability track record over decades but the others on your list are developing positive reps of their own. Plus Glocks were in Counter-Strike so that makes them awesome.
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How is the G19 compared to the G17 ?
*WARNING* I bought a Gen3 Glock 34 (long slide 17 in case you didn't know) and was happy with it so decided to buy a Gen3 G19 and found out the finger groove spacing is different from the Trigger guard to the first groove. The first groove would sit right in the middle of my middle finger and I hated it so I ground off all the Grooves on it. It looks like they changed it of Gen4 and they removed them on Gen 5 but once again if you can grip them first I'd recommend it.
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I polished all the contacting metal parts of the trigger (like where the trigger bar contacts the firing pin safety, the connector, the bottom of the firing pin) and got a real nice glassy take up and crisp break. Got rid of the gritty pull and mushiness.
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Is it worth putting a apex trigger on the glocks? It runs around $125 for the gen 5.
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Is it worth putting a apex trigger on the glocks? It runs around $125 for the gen 5.
Why not just shoot it stock first?
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Why not just shoot it stock first?
Agree :thumbsup:
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Is it worth putting a apex trigger on the glocks? It runs around $125 for the gen 5.
I say shoot the gun lots and spend more on ammo. At least at first.
Personally, I haven’t gone with aftermarket FCG for my Glocks. I have only tried a different disconnector in my competition 34. I would say most of the folks I know who shoot don’t have aftermarket FCGs. Many do their “self-smith” polishing and stuff.
I know some who change all sorts of things right off the bat. Unfortunately, have seen many of those guns malfunctioning and then lots of variables to narrow down the cause.
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I definitely will but just curious since most people tend to change it..
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I definitely will but just curious since most people tend to change it..
I mean go for it if you're interested. Just sharing my perspective, which admittedly I'm not a tinkerer. I generally tend to keep closer to stock, but will certainly try things that I feel are enablers. However, I do have many shooting buddies who are tinkerers, so they'll have a different perspective. Overall, it's your gun and have fun shooting it!
As for aftermarket FCG, I've always associated Apex with M&Ps. Now my M&P is one gun where I will eventually try the Apex. I've shot the stock trigger a lot and it's horrible. But being a 45, I rarely shoot it.
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I definitely will but just curious since most people tend to change it..
Some OEM Glock triggers you spend big $$$$ for are simply stock triggers from Glock that have been polished. Most people are not willing to try polishing their only trigger and maybe mess something up. Also, once you do the polishing, there's no going back if you decide you aren't happy with it.
Most professional OEM triggers are legal for stock gun classes in competitions. Another factor to consider is self/home defense shootings, should the prosecutor raise the issue that you had a "hair trigger" installed. An OEM trigger might be less "scary" to a jury than a low tension, deadly-accurate after-market version.
My after-market triggers came with various weight-rated springs. Be sure if you change them out to put a few hundred test rounds through the gun. I had an issue with the lightest spring causing light primer strikes. Only 3 in 5 rounds would fire.
If you don't know what you like, it's best to practice with someone who has a modified trigger or other parts. That's the only way to compare what you have versus what you could get.
Initially, there's absolutely nothing wrong with stock. You might save yourself half the cost of the gun or more by avoiding the "make my gun perfect" obsession.
Just because most people get sucked into the upgrade frenzy doesn't mean they are all correct. Dollar cost vs. increase in performance I imagine is not that great for amateur competitions and range practice.
If you're right-handed, Glocks tend to push the shot to your left (and down). Part of that is pure ergonomics. Your trigger finger bends where it bends, and the trigger has to be in a forward position relative to the trigger hinge pin to give you a full rearward pull direction -- i.e. straight back. My Glocks tend to put the trigger further back of my trigger finger's middle joint, so when I squeeze, I am pushing the trigger to the left -- and of course the muzzle, too. I wind up with the finger moving at 2 joints, not just one. That's my assessment anyway, and many other Glock shooters online have the same analysis.
Other guns, like my 1911 .45s and target guns that emulate the 1911's grip don't do that. Of course, the 1911 mags are single-stacked, allowing the grip to be thinner than a double-stacked Glock's grip. The 1911 fits much better in my hand with the trigger in a better position relative to my finger joints, so the tendency to push left isn't there.
That's just one example of (1) why you should sample various handguns for fit and function, and (2) avoid making after-market improvements until after you've practiced enough to make sure the best use of your funds isn't more range ammo.
:shaka:
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I appreciate all your feedback! :shaka:
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I definitely will but just curious since most people tend to change it..
No man I get it but I'm just suggesting shoot it even if it's just to find out what you don't like. You may end up like me and putting the stock one back because the aftermarket trigger was too light.
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Had a lot of pistols over the years and most on your list. My favorite all around handgun I’ve had besides my Shadow 2 is one of my modified P-01s. If I could only take one with me in a shtf scenario, it’d be my Gen 5 G19 w/ RMR. Personally, I think a lot of guns are a lot more comfortable than glocks and I’m more accurate with my CZs, but in a shtf situation, I think of parts compatibility etc.
While I like to support local, if there’s a gun that you truly want that is out of stock here, they can often be found online at lower than you’ll find here even with adding the FFL fee...
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Some OEM Glock triggers you spend big $$$$ for are simply stock triggers from Glock that have been polished. Most people are not willing to try polishing their only trigger and maybe mess something up. Also, once you do the polishing, there's no going back if you decide you aren't happy with it.
Yup. I would add that from feedback on folks that I know that have tried the aftermarket FCGs is that the best ones (both in "feel" and functional reliability) are where work as done on OEM Glock components.
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I appreciate all your feedback! :shaka:
One more thing I'd like to add is that I have two Gucci Glocks with very nice triggers. The break and other aspects (creep, reset, etc) are noticeably different from my stock 17s. That said, I haven't noticed an "OMG this trigger is awesome" experience. I mean I sort of notice when shooting slow fire groups for testing the gun, zeroing/checking dot and sights, etc. In training use, I don't really notice it that much.
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Aloha,
looking to purchase my first pistol. G17 or G19 gen5 mos , Vp9 optic ready, Cz P10-C , Sig p320 and Canik tp9 sc elite.
Right now G17 gen5 mos is on the top of my list since G19 and Cz p10 C is on backorder and not sure when they will be back in stock. How are the Sig p320 and Canik tp9 sc elite? I heard they are good as well. How is the recoil compared to the G17? I’m thinking they are a little more snappy? What favorite pistol do you guys have?🤙
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Depends on your experience level and budget.
If you have lots of trigger time under your belt, go for the pistols you listed.
If not, I would start with a 22. You will never regret owning a 22.
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Just FYI, but you can always send your slide away for an optics cut.
JL did two of my VP9s (i sold one of them to a friend). when i got my cuts (different years) it cost me $50 for the cut itself. it was only $50 more if you wanted the slide cerakoted. he regularly does sales; the most recent one was at the start of the COVID-19 lock down. My optics sit lower on my slide compared to the guns that use an adapter plate from the factory (i.e. Glock MOS, VP9 Optics Ready, etc.). here's his website: https://jlmachiningworks.com/
of the ones you're considering, I have a p320 RX compact, a glock 17 gen 3 (non MOS), and a VP9. i haven't tried the g17 with an optic yet, but my slide is cut to accept it.
my general thoughts:
- the ergos on the glocks kind of suck in general, but the gen 5 is definitely an improvement over the gen 3 and 4. the vp9 has the best ergonomics by far. the p320 has a near limitless potential for improved grip because of the modularity. i currently run mine with a sig x-carry grip module, but there are at least a few aftermarket grip module manufacturers joining the market. even wilson combat makes grip modules for the p320 now.
- the vp9 is slightly more snappy than the p320, but barely noticeable unless you're shooting them back to back. the glock 17 isn't very snappy, but that could be bc i was using a G17L slide and barrel.
- sig and HK mags are expensive, but they occasionally go on sale. you just need to wait for the deals. I have a ton of 10-round HK mags if you're looking to buy some. glock mags will always be cheaper than the sig and hk mags.
- no matter how much you upgrade the glock trigger, it will still feel worse than a stock vp9 trigger. you probably will not notice it much until you get more accustomed to shooting handguns. some people don't care and aren't trigger snobs whereas some people are. some people are such good shooters that they will shoot fine with a stock glock trigger. however, keep in mind that the gen 5 glock trigger definitely feels better than the gen 3 and 4.
- glocks are very customizable. i started with a serialized/registered stripped glock lower (not P80) and bought all of the parts individually to assemble the whole gun. having never worked on glocks before, i can tell you that they're impossibly simple to assemble. keep in mind that i've also detail stripped my vp9, which is a pain in the ass. you can really see where the HK engineers put real brain power into designing that gun, which is part of why it has such a nice factory trigger.
- keep in mind that there are a lot of vendors selling out-of-spec glock parts, or parts that really have no purpose other than looking cool. if you go down that route, you can possibly end up with an expensive gun with very little improvement to performance.
- the aftermarket for the p320 is growing substantially. if looking cool is important to you, then you will soon have a lot of options.
- it always surprised me that glock didn't make a competition model. sig has their x-five, x-five legion, and (soon to be released) x-five alpha. HK has made competition guns in the past with their USP line and they have a long slide kit available for the vp9. glock has their 17L and their 34, but they both seem like a really low effort from the company.
in general, i recommend that you buy a full size pistol. anything in the compact category will be more difficult for you to shoot. you can always buy a compact pistol later when you are better at shooting pistols. the additional weight of a full size will help with the recoil and the added grip size will help with controlling the gun. i wear an XL size glove and my pinky falls off the bottom of a glock 19. keep in mind that the first brand new pistol i bought was a vp9 and i'd probably do it again.
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Just FYI, but you can always send your slide away for an optics cut.
JL did two of my VP9s (i sold one of them to a friend). when i got my cuts (different years) it cost me $50 for the cut itself. it was only $50 more if you wanted the slide cerakoted. he regularly does sales; the most recent one was at the start of the COVID-19 lock down. My optics sit lower on my slide compared to the guns that use an adapter plate from the factory (i.e. Glock MOS, VP9 Optics Ready, etc.). here's his website: https://jlmachiningworks.com/
of the ones you're considering, I have a p320 RX compact, a glock 17 gen 3 (non MOS), and a VP9. i haven't tried the g17 with an optic yet, but my slide is cut to accept it.
my general thoughts:
- the ergos on the glocks kind of suck in general, but the gen 5 is definitely an improvement over the gen 3 and 4. the vp9 has the best ergonomics by far. the p320 has a near limitless potential for improved grip because of the modularity. i currently run mine with a sig x-carry grip module, but there are at least a few aftermarket grip module manufacturers joining the market. even wilson combat makes grip modules for the p320 now.
- the vp9 is slightly more snappy than the p320, but barely noticeable unless you're shooting them back to back. the glock 17 isn't very snappy, but that could be bc i was using a G17L slide and barrel.
- sig and HK mags are expensive, but they occasionally go on sale. you just need to wait for the deals. I have a ton of 10-round HK mags if you're looking to buy some. glock mags will always be cheaper than the sig and hk mags.
- no matter how much you upgrade the glock trigger, it will still feel worse than a stock vp9 trigger. you probably will not notice it much until you get more accustomed to shooting handguns. some people don't care and aren't trigger snobs whereas some people are. some people are such good shooters that they will shoot fine with a stock glock trigger. however, keep in mind that the gen 5 glock trigger definitely feels better than the gen 3 and 4.
- glocks are very customizable. i started with a serialized/registered stripped glock lower (not P80) and bought all of the parts individually to assemble the whole gun. having never worked on glocks before, i can tell you that they're impossibly simple to assemble. keep in mind that i've also detail stripped my vp9, which is a pain in the ass. you can really see where the HK engineers put real brain power into designing that gun, which is part of why it has such a nice factory trigger.
- keep in mind that there are a lot of vendors selling out-of-spec glock parts, or parts that really have no purpose other than looking cool. if you go down that route, you can possibly end up with an expensive gun with very little improvement to performance.
- the aftermarket for the p320 is growing substantially. if looking cool is important to you, then you will soon have a lot of options.
- it always surprised me that glock didn't make a competition model. sig has their x-five, x-five legion, and (soon to be released) x-five alpha. HK has made competition guns in the past with their USP line and they have a long slide kit available for the vp9. glock has their 17L and their 34, but they both seem like a really low effort from the company.
in general, i recommend that you buy a full size pistol. anything in the compact category will be more difficult for you to shoot. you can always buy a compact pistol later when you are better at shooting pistols. the additional weight of a full size will help with the recoil and the added grip size will help with controlling the gun. i wear an XL size glove and my pinky falls off the bottom of a glock 19. keep in mind that the first brand new pistol i bought was a vp9 and i'd probably do it again.
^^^VP9 whore.
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About triggers, my wife got a M&P 9C and that trigger sucks balls. We did a class where everyone had to shoot everyone elses pistol and get hits on steel about 20 yards away. When it came to using her gun, even very experienced shooters had trouble because they were used to their tuned triggers and not a shitty factory one like the 9C. When it was my turn, I had no problem getting hits with the 9c,because I dry fire it all the time. So you will learn to shoot what ever gun you buy.
She replaced the trigger with an APEX one since then. It's way better but cost $180ish. Plus it had issues so I had to go back and forth with APEX to get it fixed. That's also a consideration, if you mess with the trigger, it may not go bang unless you really know what you're doing. Which I didn't. But this time it was the part, not me. The VP9, you can leave the trigger as is. Plus if you use the handgun for self defense, you may have to explain why the trigger was modified.
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About triggers, my wife got a M&P 9C and that trigger sucks balls. We did a class where everyone had to shoot everyone elses pistol and get hits on steel about 20 yards away. When it came to using her gun, even very experienced shooters had trouble because they were used to their tuned triggers and not a shitty factory one like the 9C.
I remember that day. I was thinking (to myself), that girl is pretty hot but all her shots are pulling really low. We had a friendly competition at the end of the day where the teams laid their handguns on the firing line and rotated until everyone shot every gun. This was a competition between teams so it was pick up the gun, insert mag and start firing. I think the first three (or all) of my shots went into the dirt IN FRONT of the steel. Yes that trigger sucked.
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I remember that day. I was thinking (to myself), that girl is pretty hot but all her shots are pulling really low. We had a friendly competition at the end of the day where the teams laid their handguns on the firing line and rotated until everyone shot every gun. This was a competition between teams so it was pick up the gun, insert mag and start firing. I think the first three (or all) of my shots went into the dirt IN FRONT of the steel. Yes that trigger sucked.
I think I was there that day. I remember CMO and Mrs. Oil/Purple, the relay and the M&P 9c. I remember the steel was in different shapes, with one being slender and tall as opposed to the typical torso sized steel target.
Good times ;D
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I think I was there that day. I remember CMO and Mrs. Oil/Purple, the relay and the M&P 9c. I remember the steel was in different shapes, with one being slender and tall as opposed to the typical torso sized steel target.
Good times ;D
So I met you b4 checking out the comp shooting that I watched. Didn't know that. The shocker was my friend who places 100% usually for comp shooting even struggled with the 9c. We shall call it the ego leveler.
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So I met you b4 checking out the comp shooting that I watched. Didn't know that. The shocker was my friend who places 100% usually for comp shooting even struggled with the 9c. We shall call it the ego leveler.
Yeah. I also met you at one of the revolver shoots before when you came out to the competition. I have good situational awareness. . . ;D
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Yeah. I also met you at one of the revolver shoots before when you came out to the competition. I have good situational awareness. . . ;D
No Focus
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if your choice of pistol is a G17, G19, Sig P320C, P320XC, P320 X-Frame, or Canik tp9 SF Elite, then I got your 6 on the gun holster, mag holster, CAT, holster, and AR15 holster.
pm me for more info.
thanks.
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Glock 17 and Glock 19 frames $125. Richard at 808-282-5132